Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: zipity on April 17, 2002, 11:24:44 PM
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First off, I think HTC is doing a great job. Adding new features, keeping the old timers challenged and the newbes signing up. BUT, IMHO, the flashing fields combined with the ever present bar dar has completely removed any possibility of sneak attack. NOE missions used to be fun and rewarding but now what's the point of flying under 100ft if you still show up on bar dar and even if you didn't the enemy field would start flashing 12 miles out giving the enemy plenty of time to ditch/bail from their planes, then reup from the field being attacked. I could possibly understand starting the flashing business after the first shots rang out but giving the other team a 12 mile jump start defeats any notion of surprise. If the other team doesn't care enough to cap their territory, they deserve to loose it, that is IMHO.
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Fully agreed with you.
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They should eliminate bar dar under 1000 feet and keep the field flashing.
Or keep bar dar and kill the field flashing.
One off them is a try to give account of "airguards" against NOE attackers, but both together are way way to excatly.
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fly at or below 500ft agl and there is no bardar.
We ran a sneak attack on A52 (ndisles) not long ago. 110g2's and a goon. We stayed under 500ft for the whole attack. They finally responded to the flashing as the goon came in (I think someone was in the tower and shouted GOON so they came pouring out).
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SectorCounterAlt was 0 last time I looked. Doesn't this mean the only way not to be counted is flying below 0 AGL?
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ccvi, how could you look? Anyway it is at 500 and has been for quite some time.
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If you try and check arena settings online without CM privilages (CM's only have privilages in the CT and SA arena) all you see is Defaults/0.
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How about setting it so the field starts flashing only:
1) If the attacking force is visible on Radar
2) They are below dar but within visual range
Obviously, if you can see the enemy sweeping in, there's no reason not to start the air raid siren.
#2 would still allow the element of surprise for the NOE raiders, but not give the unrealistic "nothing happening here" appearance to fields currently being shot to blazes by planes under dar.
- Seagoon
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Maybe set the air raid range a bit shorter (3 miles?) from dusk to dawn, and in The Rain Storm, to simulate reduced visibility. It would add a positive aspect to night.
Also, add a "Radio Hut" to each field which, when destroyed, would disable the flashing and audio warnings.
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Originally posted by Wilbus
If you try and check arena settings online without CM privilages (CM's only have privilages in the CT and SA arena) all you see is Defaults/0.
Sorry hitech, I didn't know that.
Documentation (http://www.hitechcreations.com/arnasett.html) doesn't say that displayed values are bogus.
The frontend should either NOT DISPLAY the whole menu (disable button) as it is usless, if it does not even show the data, or changed to DISPLAY CORRECT VALUES.
The way it is it is a bug.
Is there a way to look up settings in the MA (.show or something)?
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CCVI, thought the button was hidden , it will be changed for the next patch .
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Originally posted by popeye
Also, add a "Radio Hut" to each field which, when destroyed, would disable the flashing and audio warnings.
I like this.
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tnx hitech.
Is there a way to look up arena settings? If not, why not?
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500 feet my bumb,
why can we see gvs on bar dar then hmmm?
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Originally posted by ccvi
tnx hitech.
Is there a way to look up arena settings? If not, why not?
Go online click on the set-up button...select the arena settings button. Change the country to something, anything then change it back to All...settings will magicaly appear :D
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I like this.
Jeez, give you guys an inch and you want a mile. You got your NOE radar blind zone, but you just can't stand that you might actually have to face defenders when you attack a field, so you want to be able to disable the field attack warning, too.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I like this.
yep, that radio hut idea is a ringer in my book.
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>Jeez, give you guys an inch and you want a mile. You got your NOE radar blind zone, but you just can't stand that you might actually have to face defenders when you attack a field, so you want to be able to disable the field attack warning, too.
No problem here facing defenders but lets look at a bit of reality. When the first shots rang at Pearl Harbor, the siren did start blowing. HOWEVER...pilots in flight over the Atlantic did bail out of their planes and suddenly appear in Hawaii to defend the bases. Ok...how about this: dar bar and flashing stay as they are but all defenders have to wait 12 hours before appearing at the field under attack, thus simulating real life travel time. :)
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And how many times do you think that happened after the US actually entered the war zipity? You can pick one example to prove virtually any point.
You also forget that if you remove the "base under attack" warning, you can attack a base completely undetected. I seriously doubt that happened anywhere at any time.
AKDejaVu
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well didnt take long for a good thread to go down hill .....I like the radio hut Idea...:)
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Opps, forgot to mention, I also really like the radio hut idea.
AKDeja.... Wasn't really trying to prove a point...the little smiley at the end of a message is normally used to show that the writer isn't totally serious.
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Originally posted by popeye
Maybe set the air raid range a bit shorter (3 miles?) from dusk to dawn, and in The Rain Storm, to simulate reduced visibility. It would add a positive aspect to night.
Well, let's see here. Assuming the bombers are coming in at 120 miles per hour at 10,000 feet, that would leave defenders about 2 minutes to get off the runway, climb to altitude, and pull in a position to attack. A B-26 or two and some Me-110s could pretty much take everything out while the defenders are still cranking up their gear. Maybe to simulate reduced visibility and war-time technology, the bomber's GPS kneepad should be turned off so that attacking pilots have to hit their targets based on pure navigation skills. ;) Or let us fly the Messersmitt Komets!
Originally posted by popeye
Also, add a "Radio Hut" to each field which, when destroyed, would disable the flashing and audio warnings.
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I would agree to silence the audio warnings (who is this guy "Ace" and why is he always under attack?), but with the map so spread out and so few pilots available in a tower at any given time, the flashing icon is a good way to tell defenders where to be.
You gotta remember - we don't have coastal watchers with binoculars squatting in a jungle to tell us where we need to go with fighters, so the indicators serve that purpose. I say keep them at their current range and let the 5,000 yard icon do its job.
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Suggestion...
If you blow up the radio hut the field Icon should stop flashing but go darker to indicate a total lack of communication with the outside.
- Seagoon
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Originally posted by MrLars
Go online click on the set-up button...select the arena settings button. Change the country to something, anything then change it back to All...settings will magicaly appear :D
LOL. Read the posts above. This is how I thought I found out that SectorCounterAlt was 0, but as hitech and others pointed out these values aren't the arena settings.
PS: I like the idea of the radio hut, too. Just make it work differently: If the radio hut is down, HQ knows there's something wrong with the field and the icon is flashing, but no strat information about that field available unless you move there.
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Seems like there was no alt limit for dar bar in the Island terrain last night, or this morning. Not sure if there is supposed to be. Flew in a couple of NOE missions and lit up a big green bar both times.
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Originally posted by popeye
Seems like there was no alt limit for dar bar in the Island terrain last night, or this morning. Not sure if there is supposed to be. Flew in a couple of NOE missions and lit up a big green bar both times.
Observation: It could be that the "enemy counter" setting is the only one set to 500 (why limit the ability to see friendlies?)
Also, Love the Radar tower Idea, modified by the above suggestion to make it "black out" the field
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Like the radio hut idea,also how about telephone lines on poles that follow the road's/railways,if you want to take a base you would have to destroy the "field telephone" lines to cut a base off from comms when the radio hut is out,this way a field can't get advance warning of an attack from "forward observers" and wouldn't flash when a properly executed sneak attack is mounted,air raid siren could be set off only when dots are visible from the field,add a "communications down" counter to the tower status display and voila :)
PS I bet HTC has something along these lines planned and can't wait to see what it is :)
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Just make it so that if no enemy shows on dar then no field flash.
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Like the radio hut idea, like the comms blackout amendment. Places were attacked without appreciable warning throughtout the war by low-level raiders of both sides.
As a thought, maybe some percentage chance of an NOE plane being notionally "spotted by a ground observer" per unit time or fixed distance travelled within a certain range? That way, sometimes attackers would be lucky and be able to get on top of the target before the alarm was sounded, other times theyd be effectively spotted by a keen-eyed observer who just happened to be looking the other way. An of course, the larger the number of planes attacking, the greater the chance of a ground observer seeing/hearing them. Add in a suitable delay for the siren to start (which automatically starts when the first hostile projectile hits the target) and I think we're there...
Esme
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My vote: Get rid of the flashing. It's absurd when the main problem in arena now is overcrowding.
My question: Why do some fields stop flashing when they're being vultched.
My observation: HT comments not withstanding, we DO make an enema bar dar, even at 50 feet. Have tested this several times.
mullah
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Originally posted by Seagoon
Suggestion...
If you blow up the radio hut the field Icon should stop flashing but go darker to indicate a total lack of communication with the outside.
- Seagoon
I like this idea. It lets pilots logging in at other bases for the first time of the night know the current battlefield situation. I like this idea a lot.
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destroyable radio hut - yes or just tie it into the radar dish
Big air raid siren bullhorn hanging off the side which is able to be destroyed by ALL countries :)
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Yeah HT and company are doing great, and for me, there are no buts :) But, then again, beauty is in the eye of whomever is looking at the time.
I personally dont give a horses patoot about the flashing fields, and about the only advantage to it is to alert a country that their field may or may not be under attack by one milkrunning sob or more. If the darbar is large, then that country should know there is probably a major attack coming in; if that country doesn't do anything about it, then they will likely lose the base.
Even if a field is flashing or not, it still doesn't tell you what alt the nme are at, what direction they are coming from, whether there are gooneys in the stream of nme; whether the nme are GVz or aircraft etc, etc.
And yes, you can still fly under 500 feet and not be detected, and for good measure I fly under 200 feet just to be sure. Still, if a field is alerted and nme cap is upping, the chances are good that a low flying a/c will eventually be discovered and get shot down. A sneak attack does NOT require that the nme become frozen with fear and not have an opportunity to respond.
There is always an element of chance to any attack, especially a low level sneak attack. Hell, do like some of the intrepid buffers do in the MA, come in all alone at 30k and drop your eggs, then skedaddle on out of there to safety :)
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Well I fly in the MA too and I am aware of the following:
-Dar Bar for AC under 500 feet. I do see them as they make a mistake and briefly pop up over 500 feet; that being pilot error.
-The fields flash even when an nme isn't even in the sector yet; I don't know how far away an nme a/c or GV has to be before it activates.
- I do see and hear:The annoying and cloying voice warning comes on even as I am enroute to an nme base:mad: ; there isn't an nme even near the base I took off from.
-There are no dar bars for nme a/c under 500 feet or 200 hundred feet.
- GVs can be seen from 100 to 1000 feet; its how I know they are there, a dar bar doesn't really do anything except to let you know there is an nme at the perimeter; consider them listening posts. I hear the sirens first; I check views for signs of nme a/c inbound. Fortunately, if the nme is close enough, the auto acks closest to the GV start shooting (badly I might add). I take off and make for the intruder.
I don't need to make it so everything is going my way, I play the game/sim and see how it turns out after giving it an honest effort. Try it, it may be fun :D
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> fly at or below 500ft agl and there is no bardar. <
I tested this last night (squadie defected). In a C47, over the water, I made a darbar at ANY altitude.
With bardar, flashing fields and 400+ players in the arena, coordinated attacks by small (ie: squad-level) groups is no longer productive. Game progression has become quite predictable.
mullah
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personally i think it would be great if bardar and flashing fields were only activated when enemies are actually visible from a field.... where 'field' means normal field buildings but also outlying gun positions, town, spawn points...
perhaps this would also warrant a new kind of object: an observation post. owned by a field, each field could have up to (say) 3, up to (say) 7 miles from the tower. destroyable of course :)
and, to extend the concept further, any enemy visible by a real player also triggers bardar.
so if you fly NOE to an undefended enemy field in mountainous terrain, you'll only raise an alarm when you come over the ridge; but approaching over the ocean you'll be seen a lot further off.
and it would be possible to fly right through an enemy sector without raising bardar if you avoid being seen from any field object/obs post.
i'm sure it would be possible (though it's all coding work, and there's already an enormous list of tasks i bet) to base the bardar and field flashing on true visibility, i.e. whether a player standing at a field object could see a dot. ideally this should also be affected by night/cloud.
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I also miss being able to surprise attack (as you can in some other games). Would add greatly to fog of war if a mission could go long range and strike where not expected, say perhaps to capture a port.
A country short on numbers would have some options then, and the reset game could possibly become more interesting.
To that end I would wish for no radar bar indicator below radar operation altitude. Still have proximity warnings however if an enemy gets too close to a base.
First of all, has this already been tried? If so why was it not continued?
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Originally posted by popeye
Maybe set the air raid range a bit shorter (3 miles?) from dusk to dawn, and in The Rain Storm, to simulate reduced visibility.
Rain Storm????? AH has rain storms? (I havnt played in MA in a while btw so i dont know whats changed and all)???
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Originally posted by cajun
Rain Storm????? AH has rain storms? (I havnt played in MA in a while btw so i dont know whats changed and all)???
I would like to see higher winds at various low and high altitudes
that would be located respective to the storms...
Last nite in the MA 4/26/02 the winds were set at 35mph... That was really cool... When you would hit the winds it would literally rock my P-38 back and forth... Pretty realistic...
Thanks HiTech...
BOOT
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What is a dar bar and what does IMO or IMHO mean?
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Kevin14-------------> What is a dar bar and what does IMO or IMHO mean?
Kevin14
Dar Bar is the radar Icon on the map... Green or Red....
Green are the friendly planes in the sector and Red are the enemy planes in the sector... A small bar indicates a small number of planes the long bar indicates many planes...
IMO = In My Opinion
IMHO = In My Honest Opinion
Salute
BOOT
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I'll give you a perfect example of this and why I agree that the notification of "base under attack" should at least have its range shortened if the attackers aren't showing up on dar.
Last night, I'm stooging around in an La-7 near A18, after finishing off a B-17, when I see a very low dot far in the distance. I check radar--nothing, no dot, no counters in the sector. BUT, at that point, squeakin' Betty gives out with "base under attack!" and A18 starts flashing.
So I check it out. After 2-3 minutes of lowering down from 17k, I see three more dots. I check dar again--no dot, no counters in the sector, and now I'm confused. Maybe it's a train? A resupply convoy or something? Can't be a bad guy ten miles south of the base, I figured A18 was under attack from the north...but, can't ignore that warning.
Finally, one of the dots turns into a 109! The other three turn out to be two B-26s and a P-51, either at weed-clipping height, or maybe even parked in the grass, I don't know. To make a long story short, the 109 gets me (because, well, I really suck coming off a long layoff, and I was never that good before) and the buff group and attached C-47 wind up coming extremely close to sneaking A17.
If it hadn't been for that base alert, I would have written that dot off as a friendly and not bothered checking it out. And they were a good ten miles southwest of A18 when I stumbled over them.
guys, very audacious raid. :)
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Originally posted by popeye
Also, add a "Radio Hut" to each field which, when destroyed, would disable the flashing and audio warnings.
THIS is an AWESOME idea!
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Originally posted by pbirmingham
Jeez, give you guys an inch and you want a mile. You got your NOE radar blind zone, but you just can't stand that you might actually have to face defenders when you attack a field, so you want to be able to disable the field attack warning, too.:rolleyes:
Whats wrong with it? If a field is flashing and suddenly stops.. it's a clear signal something is up. I like the idea because as it is, with allot less luck than you'd expect, a single defender can foil and entire NOE bomber or capture mission granted he gets up as soon as the flashing starts.
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Originally posted by RDSaustinTX
My observation: HT comments not withstanding, we DO make an enema bar dar, even at 50 feet. Have tested this several times.
mullah
Not always. There may be a glitch because I've heard this before, however I took down a C-47 attempting an NOE capture the other day and saw him totally by accident. The city was down, the base was (and had been flashing) but there was NO bardar. I'd been out looking for the NOE, had given up and noticed the guy during my final approach by sheer luck. Another 10 seconds and he'd have taken the base with little warning.
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Tumor, it has been fixed a week or two ago. No dar bar under 500 ft now.
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Zipity is right.
There should be no radar or map warnings triggered by aircraft under 100 ft.
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