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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: funkedup on April 18, 2002, 04:46:18 PM

Title: A-20g
Post by: funkedup on April 18, 2002, 04:46:18 PM
Three thumbs up!  :)
Title: A-20g
Post by: Kieran on April 18, 2002, 07:49:57 PM
Excellent work, Nate, it's my new wallpaper.
Title: A-20g
Post by: Wotan on April 18, 2002, 08:01:20 PM
4 x hispanos on a20g?
Title: A-20g
Post by: Kieran on April 18, 2002, 08:04:15 PM
No, that's 4x.50s in the nose. It is a light attack bomber, nothing more, but it should be maneuverable and one of the faster bombers (aside from the mosquito).
Title: A-20g
Post by: WBHoncho on April 18, 2002, 10:31:05 PM
(http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/attack/a3/a20-23.jpg)

ACTUALLY, according to USAF Museum anyway (pretty good source I figure) :

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/attack/a3/a3-9.htm

"...The -G model was designed primarily as a ground attack aircraft. The greenhouse glass nose of the earlier models was replaced by a solid nose and featured four fixed 20 mm cannons. The barrels of these cannons stuck out about three feet and gave the aircraft a distinctive appearance.

During acceptance and combat capability testing, the cannons had a tendency to jam during sustained firing. Also, the cannon had a relatively slow rate of fire. These two factors led to the redesign of the forwarding firing armament and only the initial block -- A-20G-1 -- of 250 aircraft were completed with the 20 mm cannons. Beginning with block 5, the A-20G had six .50-cal. machine guns in the nose..."
Title: A-20g
Post by: Kieran on April 18, 2002, 10:44:05 PM
Honcho, you've already made the correct notation. There were relatively few cannon-armed A-20Gs. In all likelihood we'll see the .50 version, though we won't know until we fly. Judging by the screenshot, I think we can guess .50s. ;)
Title: A-20g
Post by: VWE001 on April 19, 2002, 08:15:14 AM
Specifications Span: 61 ft. 4 in.
Length: 48 ft.
Height: 17 ft. 7 in.
Weight: 26,580 lbs. loaded
Armament: Eight .50-cal. machine guns;
2,000 lbs. of bombs internally;
2,000 lbs. externally.
Engines: Two Wright R-2600s of 1,6000 hp. each
Cost: $74,000  Performance Maximum Speed: 317 mph.
Cruising Speed: 230 mph.
Range: 1,025 miles
Service Ceiling: 25,000 ft.  

Performance Maximum Speed: 317 mph.
Cruising Speed: 230 mph.
Range: 1,025 miles
Service Ceiling: 25,000 ft.

I've got one question though, will we be able to also select "attack" or will this also just be graded as a bomber?
Title: A-20g
Post by: popeye on April 19, 2002, 08:36:37 AM
$74,000.   Cool, where do I place my order?   :)
Title: A-20g
Post by: streakeagle on April 19, 2002, 08:42:46 AM
They gave up 4 x 20 mm for 6 x 0.50 cal ?

Hmmm, games make it seem like it would be smarter to stay with the 20mm's. Of course HTC doesn't model gun jams, which was a big reason the US generally stayed away from 20mm's except as secondary (i.e. P-38) or experimental armament (F-4U-1C). Only after the 20mm's became  more reliable did they become the primary armament for US aircraft (Skyraider, late F4U-4 variants), but they still didn't like and made sure to design better 20mm's: M39 revolver cannon and M61 gatling to get the rate of fire up where it needed to be.

It is interesting to note that even as late as the Korean War, they were still somewhat experimental as far as the USAF was concerned: most Sabres produced had the 6 x 0.50 cals despite the fact that they could use 4 x 20mm even after they knew the 0.50 cals had trouble shooting down the MiG-15.
Title: A-20g
Post by: Superfly on April 19, 2002, 08:46:05 AM
We're using the 6x.50 caliber version.  The 4x20mm version's cannons jammed quite a bit, and weren't very useful.
Title: A-20g
Post by: Kieran on April 19, 2002, 10:00:54 AM
Just to clarify, that's 4x.50 in the nose, 2x.50 in the turret, right?
Title: A-20g
Post by: streakeagle on April 19, 2002, 10:10:32 AM
6 x 0.50 in the nose
Title: Oh yes, 6 X .50 of course....
Post by: Toad on April 19, 2002, 10:21:43 AM
... but we should also have the option to switch to the 4 x 20 in the hangar.

Two reasons: They DID make it.. so like some other folks, we should demand every single variation that was ever made.. even if they only made one.

Secondly, it's been a long time since we've heard the symphony of wailing, whining and gnashing of teeth that would accompany this option.

Reason two is enough all by itself, acutally.  :D
Title: A-20g
Post by: popeye on April 19, 2002, 11:32:37 AM
"Reason two is enough all by itself, acutally."

Yes.  :)
Title: A-20g
Post by: Turbot on April 19, 2002, 02:45:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by VWE001
I've got one question though, will we be able to also select "attack" or will this also just be graded as a bomber?


Well it IS a "A"-20  - the solid nose versions of planes (like the A-26 for another example).  No bombsites either.

Some of  A-20's went so far as to be outfitted as night fighters.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p70.htm

"...The P-70 was developed, in 1942, from the Douglas A-20 "Havoc" for use by the Army Air Corps to fill an urgent need for a night fighter until the first scheduled deliveries of the Northrop P-61 "Black Widow" in 1943.

The British first used the modified A-20 as a night fighter (Havoc II) and met with some success. The AAF followed suit and modified an A-20 (S/N 39-735) by installing radar and four 20mm cannon in a fuselage pod. The glass nose section of the A-20 was simply painted black in a P-70...."

Hmm, perhaps three planes can be derived from the from the a-20 base?  

(1) The Boston III with its bombsite and glass nose - a bomber.
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/superfly/boston3.jpg)

(2) A-20 with its solid nose - a Attack
(http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Aircraft/Boston_A20_USmarkings.jpg)

and add with same basic cockpit art, etc....

(3) P-70 in the pursuit category (as a precursor to the P-61)

(http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p70-2.jpg)

(note the extra cannon unit in the belly)
Title: A-20g
Post by: Replicant on April 19, 2002, 02:57:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
Just to clarify, that's 4x.50 in the nose, 2x.50 in the turret, right?


Kieran, if you look at the piccy that VWE001 posted it shows the 4 x .50 cal in the nose centre with the additional 2 x .50 cal in the lower nose (muzzle exit is greyed).  Hope this helps.  :)

Regards
Title: A-20g
Post by: Otto on April 19, 2002, 03:31:42 PM
Well, I guess this will hold me until the A-26B shows up ;)
Title: A-20g
Post by: Karnak on April 19, 2002, 03:41:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by VWE001
I've got one question though, will we be able to also select "attack" or will this also just be graded as a bomber?


I would guess that it will be the same as the Il-2.

It will have the Bomber and Attack options and perk points will all go into the Bomber category.
Title: A-20g
Post by: Kieran on April 19, 2002, 04:03:00 PM
Further clarification: My question was directed at Natedog/Superfly. I know the options of the A-20, believe me. I'm just wondering which model they are making and which armament package. ;)
Title: A-20g
Post by: Superfly on April 19, 2002, 04:14:10 PM
edit........ blah, blah, blah...
6 x .50 cal in the nose and a Martin power turret with 2 x .50 cal.
(See Warpaint #32 Pages 20-21)
Title: A-20g
Post by: Widewing on April 20, 2002, 05:52:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SUPERFLY
edit........ blah, blah, blah...
6 x .50 cal in the nose and a Martin power turret with 2 x .50 cal.
(See Warpaint #32 Pages 20-21)  


Note that many of the A-20G aircraft were field modified to add two additional forward firing .05 caliber guns. It was fairly common practice in the 5th Air Force to add B-25 type gun pods to the sides of the fuselage, below the cockpit. Experiments included as many as 12 forward firing guns.

Are parafrags being modeled for use with the A-20G?

My regards,

Widewing
Title: A-20g
Post by: Wilbus on April 20, 2002, 08:17:16 AM
Bring on the 20's aswell :D

Anybody got RPM of the 20's it used?

Nice plane for sure, hope we get an A26 in the future too :)
Title: A-20g
Post by: funkedup on April 20, 2002, 07:14:23 PM
Pretty sure the 20 mm were the same type used in the P-38.  Basically Hispanos.
Title: A-20g
Post by: AmRaaM on April 20, 2002, 10:24:22 PM
wish it was the a26 with 10 50's  firing forward.
Title: A-20g
Post by: Gorf on April 21, 2002, 10:54:36 AM
A20..WOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Enough said!


WTG!!
Title: A-20g
Post by: firbal on April 21, 2002, 11:36:02 AM
Oh man, I'm loving this. Cann't wait. Been waitting for this for awhile. I thought we would see an A-26 with all the late war aircraft modeled. Nice work.
Title: A-20g
Post by: Major Tom on June 02, 2002, 07:56:00 PM
Quote
6 x .50 cal in the nose and a Martin power turret with 2 x .50 cal.


superfly does this mean you won't be modeling the ventral .50 caliber gun the A-20G-20-DO through -45-DO?

According to my sources the planes did have a .30 cal mounted in the ventral prior to the -20-DO and a .50 cal afterwards

The A-20 would be effectively unable to maintain a strait course to a target in a low level attack without the ventral gun.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/attack/a3/a3-11.htm

I say give us the A-20G-1-DO eventually.  But in the historical configuration of the non turret, limited field of fire, .50 combo dorsal and the .30 in the ventral.  No uber G-1's :D

By the way my research has showed that the most common variant in the Pacific Theater was the A-20C-DO with the Gunn modification of four .50's in the nose, and the addition of a .50 mounted ventraly.  Very fast cruising speed of 280mph.  All though the A-20A-DO was faster by an additional 15 miles per hour... but it lacked nice things like self sealing fuel tanks... and armor...

but it was faster and had neato fixed rear firing guns :cool: