Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: eskimo2 on April 19, 2002, 12:44:01 AM
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We've been taking these surveys every now and then when we log on. (Do you attand airshows, build model airplanes, etc.) Just for yucks are you ever going to let us know what you have learned from them? Just who the heck are we?!
eskimo
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Eskimo, you're a vulch junkie that's way too good at killing other people in the chog. :p
How about giving it a break every now and then so the rest of us could catch up? I suggest learning the piano.
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No
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Is that No as in maybe?
So there is a chance?!
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To elaborate on HT's poignant answer, the reason we don't share the results is because we collect this information for more than just curiosity's sake. It's valuable information that we can use to help make marketing and other decisions. That's not something we want to go through the trouble of collecting just to give away.
Thanks for taking the polls though. We do have plans to use them for more fun things in the future such as voting on planes, etc.
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Seriously, as much as I enjoy those prolixic answers from HT he might want to spend less effort composing in-depth replies. I'm sure it detracts form available coding time.
In the future, a simple 0 will do.
:D
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In the future, a simple 0 will do.
roflmao :)
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Pyro,
Given your statement about the poll data you are getting, for me those polls just became as annoying and invasive as having someone calling my home to ask me a few quick questions.
I much prefer the open polls used by most of the other online companies where after you click, you get to see the results and find out how your opinion compares to everyone else. I think that is more fair since at least I get useful information in return for taking the time to read the question and provide information.
I understand you wouldn't want the competition to benefit from your research, but I don't believe public surveys should be private marketing tools.
If your company feels the information I provide to you for free cannot be shared freely, then I feel I should not provide it for free. In the future I won't bother to answer the poll questions any more unless they are of direct interest to me (i.e. aircraft type polls). I don't intentionally ever give any other companies free marketing info, why should I treat HTC any differently?
I love AH and started paying for it as soon as I was sure I could afford it. These days I barely have time to play at all, but I keep paying anyway to do my part to help make sure development continues. I also tell as many friends as possible about it, which in my opinion is the best marketing result you could hope for.
I have never been a big fan of sales/marketing strategies and the people who dream them up or make them happen. Of course I know I am living in fantasy land if I believe the notion that a good product will sell itself, but I find our world in a sad state given all the companies that are tracking our names, phone numbers, zip codes, preferences, etc. so that they can figure out how to make more money.
Could you provide an option to disable the poll dialog box? It would be one less piece of markteting clutter in my life.
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holy crap streakeagle, that is the stupidest whine ever for this BBS.
...and that is saying a WHOLE lot.
get over it and click the freakin decline button.
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Originally posted by Furious
holy crap streakeagle, that is the stupidest whine ever for this BBS.
...and that is saying a WHOLE lot.
get over it and click the freakin decline button.
Agree, canidate for Rude weekly?????
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Help, I'm strung way to tight.
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Olé !!!!.
If I were english speaker, I wouldn't express myself better than that.
I have always answered the polls, but this laconic:
NO
nevertheless the afterwards Pyro explanations,
had shocked my good mood to the matter.
Originally posted by streakeagle
Pyro,
Given your statement about the poll data you are getting, for me those polls just became as annoying and invasive as having someone calling my home to ask me a few quick questions.
I much prefer the open polls used by most of the other online companies where after you click, you get to see the results and find out how your opinion compares to everyone else. I think that is more fair since at least I get useful information in return for taking the time to read the question and provide information.
I understand you wouldn't want the competition to benefit from your research, but I don't believe public surveys should be private marketing tools.
If your company feels the information I provide to you for free cannot be shared freely, then I feel I should not provide it for free. In the future I won't bother to answer the poll questions any more unless they are of direct interest to me (i.e. aircraft type polls). I don't intentionally ever give any other companies free marketing info, why should I treat HTC any differently?
I love AH and started paying for it as soon as I was sure I could afford it. These days I barely have time to play at all, but I keep paying anyway to do my part to help make sure development continues. I also tell as many friends as possible about it, which in my opinion is the best marketing result you could hope for.
I have never been a big fan of sales/marketing strategies and the people who dream them up or make them happen. Of course I know I am living in fantasy land if I believe the notion that a good product will sell itself, but I find our world in a sad state given all the companies that are tracking our names, phone numbers, zip codes, preferences, etc. so that they can figure out how to make more money.
Could you provide an option to disable the poll dialog box? It would be one less piece of markteting clutter in my life.
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You guys want results? Ok, here we go...
"We have discovered there are five distinctly different groups of players. For your convenience we have broken them down for your perusal.
Category 1: "The Generals". These are the folks that honestly believe the game was designed around themselves personally as the central figure in the play. These are the folks that expect folks to log in and fall in line with whatever Napoleonic conquest they have planned for the evening. To the General, there can be no fun without a crushing victory. The General is equally enthralled by playing board games such as chess or backgammon.
Category 2: "The Melee's". These folks want action, the faster the better. Even a 2-minute flight to the fight is is a minute and fifty-eight seconds too slow. High on the agenda of the Melee' player is airborne starts over the spot of the last death. No reason to let that guy that just whacked you get away...
Category 3: "The Whiner". As the name suggests, nothing is ever right. No matter what is done it is done wrong, no matter what volunteers do they screw up, no matter what addition to the plane set it is the wrong one or the wrong color, etc. The Whiner can be distinguished from the Pragmatist in that the Whiner's comment is always stated negatively and will never have an attainable goal. The Whiner pines for unreasonable features or additions despite the obvious detraction from the overall project or resources.
Category 4: "The Muckrakers". In short, chaos is their bag. They are here to be asocial, period. Not much more to be said, except they are often the pawns of the other categories at some times, and manipulate the other categories at other times.
Category 5: "The Pragmatists". These are the people that understand this is a game, and accept whatever situation exists. They may see problems in the game, but by-and-large they understand that very few problems are show-stoppers, and witness the growing popularity of the sim as an indication of the overall wisdom of whatever approach is currently utilized. The Pragmatist may have the occasional suggestion, but there are no demands made.
As you may guess, we are working hard to gather as much demographic information as we can in order to help us better serve you."
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I think you should pay me for reading your anal post,Strike. It cost me 17 seconds of my time, and as I’m off work, that’s double time and a half.
Course, a less than savvy BBS reader with a hint of ‘obvious’ skills, would conclude your wasting 10 minutes (more pry) of your time posting that pitiful whine, which would be some 75 polls you’d just have to answer with a “quick click” to help the AH community and HTC for simple data to better the product.
Kind of spells out just how you valuable your “time” , is respectively, don’t it?
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If you don't wish to answer, mark the box that says "I don't wish to answer." That's what it's there for.
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I'm with you streakeagle - not specifically on the HTC polling but on the increasing tendencies of companies to take up my time for their own insiduous designs. Compared to what other companies come up with to get info HTC's is rather mild.
But I do feel that corporate America has gone completely overboard with its marketing strategies. What pisses me off most is the implied assumption that I've nothing better to do than to answer their questions or that their demands for information should take precidence over my own, petty self-serving, privacy.
I used to be able to buy a game and register it with just contact information without a worry. If I ever had a problem with the 3.5" disks I could get support. Now I don't dare register for all the marketing crap that will surely follow if they know how to reach me.
Hell, even the cop that stopped me for speeding wanted to know my profession and average income. What the hell is up with that? Racial profiling work out so well that now financial profiling should be tested?
I completely understand the marketing position on this - I've old enough and have been on both sides of this equation to comprehend marketing's wants (read needs). My only question is when did targeting demographics take over from doing a quality product in order to increase sales?
I don't think I ever met a marketeer who didnt need an ethics check.
-sudz
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took you fellers longer to complain about the poll that all the polls you ever saw in the game took you to click on x100
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Creamo, reading the BBS is voluntary and free. No one made you read one word of my post. Now if a dialog box popped up with whatever stupid opinion I had every time you opened a computer application and remained there until you clicked on it, that would be very different. It would be the same as all those pop-up explorer ads.
I pay to play AH to have fun, not to view marketing dialog boxes. Knowing the sole function of that box makes having to view it and click on it is just as annoying to me as all the other pop-up ads.
Should I have to stare at a dialog box and click "I do not wish to reply" every time I want run any application on my computer, especially one of my favorite ones?
I never whined about this previously and always gave feedback other than "I do not wish to reply" in the interest of supporting a game I like. But now that our feedback has been openly declared classified information available only to HTC for marketing purposes after someone made a reasonable request for public disclosure of the results, I would prefer not to participate and would also prefer not to clutter my screen with the box at all. My issue is with freely given public information becoming the property of a company.
I do not think it is any more unreasonable to request having an option to turn this feature off than not having the phone ring every 20 minutes with telemarketing calls. Their polls don't take long either and are only for our own benefit right? Should I pick up the phone everytime and tell them I am not interested?
For me, this isn't about the time it takes, it is about the principle. Is it logical for me to waste five minutes of my time typing up a post and expressing my opinion to defend my beliefs? Damn straight, that's what a BBS is for.
Our world has been commercialized on a global scale. Everything depends on marketing and dollars. I know this is unavoidable, but I sure don't need to be reminded about it at the end of the day when I click on AH to get away from it all and have some fun.
Flame on.
Rude, I would be honored to get "whine of the week" as my previous efforts have obviously failed ;)
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Pyro, can you add a "Whatever HTC wants me to think, as long as the A6M2 and Ki-84 are added in the next planeset update" option? ;)
I'd like to see the poll results myself, but completely understand why you keep them to yourselves.
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pssst... hey fellas... wanna know what's REALLY going on with those polls? They're slowly compiling personality data on all of us. When they get enough info, we will be modelled into the game as AI, and you know what happens then? That's right... we are redundant, expendable. How do we know this isn't already happening? I mean, how do we really know that the "people" we see online every night are really people at all? I mean, some people say the same thing over and over... like a machine would! And those voices on AHVoice? Sounds computerish to me. Don't trust anybody! The writing is on the wall, my friends. Don't say I didn't warn you all. I think I hear a helicopter, where's my foil helmet?
Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean I'm wrong.
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"5"
T0J0;)
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LOL, Dux - it's what I've suspected all along :)
What is that glowing red light in the corner of my bedroom? I keep hearing strange mechanically whizzing noises late at night!!
-sudz
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Originally posted by streakeagle
I never whined about this previously and always gave feedback other than "I do not wish to reply" in the interest of supporting a game I like. But now that our feedback has been openly declared classified information available only to HTC for marketing purposes after someone made a reasonable request for public disclosure of the results, I would prefer not to participate and would also prefer not to clutter my screen with the box at all. My issue is with freely given public information becoming the property of a company.
[/B]
You're one of those Civil Liberties Tree-Huggers are'nt you?
Where do you people find the time off work to go to all those IMF protests?
You say you want to support HTC and in turn AH, but you don't want to anwser questions about yourself in order for them to direct their marketing effort to like-minded people. Guess what, helping HTC will make AH better. More players means more Money for HTC which means more resources for development of an already great game.
And I perfectly understand why HTC would not want to give information about the demographics of it's PAYING CUSTOMERS to outsiders. That's like me calling a Morgan Stanley broker and telling him the names and phone numbers, as well as the net worth, and investment experience of all my best clients.
If you don't want to answer, fine, but for god's sake get over it!
Besides, do you really give a rat's bellybutton who builds model airplanes or not?
As Yeager would say, "It's just a poll"
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Does the HTC receive a response if I select "I decline to answer"?
If it doesn't, great.
If it does, then I have to agree with streak. As HTC would still be recieving marketing formation from me. ie. Well Thrawn responded to this poll, but he declined to answer that one. I guess he cares more about the first issue and less about the second.
I like HTC and their product, as a customer, not a marketing tool. I would like the option to disable the pop-ups, if HTC receives a response if I chose to click, "I decline to answer."
edit: I support HTC by giving them cold hard cash every month, in the end, they are a business, not a charity.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
edit: I support HTC by giving them cold hard cash every month, in the end, they are a business, not a charity.
And like every business, if your not growing, your Dying. Grow the customer base, reinvest the profits into improving your product, increase your customer base....etc, etc, etc..
Otherwise, your company goes the way of Air Warrior, and I know no one wants that.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
You're one of those Civil Liberties Tree-Huggers are'nt you?
Just wondering, what civil liberties you would want restricted?
:D
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If you don't like little pop up stuff just once in awhile & that is part of the game, then don't pay $15 dollars to play. Nobody is forcing you to open AH, knowing there is an off chance a marketing pop-up will be there. Amazes me as to the simple little things that people complain about.
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IMPORTANT TRANSMISSION (http://www.hitechcreations.com/superfly/tool13.mp3)
There is a lot of distortion, but I've intercepted a transmission of what is really going on! Listen before it's too late!!! :eek:
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Originally posted by muckmaw
And like every business, if your not growing, your Dying. Grow the customer base, reinvest the profits into improving your product, increase your customer base....etc, etc, etc..
Otherwise, your company goes the way of Air Warrior, and I know no one wants that.
Sorry I don't want HTC or AH not to go away either, but this is not my problem. After all, I don't recieve any dividends when HTC does well.
Before anyone says, "Yeah but you receive other compensation when HTC does well, more features, more planes, and they cut the price.". I pay for an evolving game, that's what they market the AH as. As far as the price reduction is concerned, I'm sure they found the price point that was BEST FOR THEM, and implemented it.
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Originally posted by MrLars
Just wondering, what civil liberties you would want restricted?
:D
Aside from the one that allows morons to procreate, none. If they restrict the right of throngs of new age hippies to protest, I'll have nothing to laugh at on the Evening News.
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Originally posted by BigGun
If you don't like little pop up stuff just once in awhile & that is part of the game, then don't pay $15 dollars to play. Nobody is forcing you to open AH, knowing there is an off chance a marketing pop-up will be there. Amazes me as to the simple little things that people complain about.
Imagine HTC had this atitude about every clients concern. It's called customer service. Something that they happen to be good at. It's part of the reason they are so succesful. And it's a wicked marking tool, as the other sims don't seem to be very good at it.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
You're one of those Civil Liberties Tree-Huggers are'nt you?
Now that's funny :D Just because HT/Pyro's recent post suddenly made the little poll box utterly repulsive to me and I decide to mindlessly rant about it, suddenly I am a card-carrying ACLU member?
Yeah, I am one of those liberal tree-huggers that likes to play wargames (both the board game type and computer sims), own and drive gas guzzling sports cars, legally own and carry firearms, and served 8 years in the Navy on submarines. Quite a few of my opinions do fall into categories other than right wing Republican, but I don't believe anyone I have ever known ever accused me of being too liberal ;)
I am somewhat anti-establishment though, especially when it comes to mailboxes full of advertisements I am never going to read, telemarketers calling all day long, and people with clipboards standing around in malls trying to get me to answer a few quick questions. These days door-to-door solicitors seem pretty rare, but those are the worst even when compared to the phone calls.
I come home, I turn on the computer, check my email (which is filtered well enough to keep out most ads), check my favorite message boards, and if my homework is done and I am not too tired, I play a couple of games. Why is it so difficult for others to understand I have no need to face any more marketing ploys by this time regardless of how small and insignificant it may be?
It may be "just a poll", but my post is "just another post"... it doesn't really require knee jerk responses because I disagreed with HTCs marketing poll feature.
I may whine about this feature or that, participate in wish lists, play devil's advocate in officer club political debates, etc., but by far the majority of my posts about HTC and AH probably fall more into the cheerleader category or I wouldn't even be here posting.
As for the poll being instrumental to improving the game... I think these message boards already provide more useful feedback than HTC can even use. Clearly the main function of such a poll is to make decisions on where to put advertising dollars at, which is certainly not a crime but nor is it something I want to pay for or waste even a millisecond of my time viewing and clicking on it.
Of course HT and the gang have been doing this awhile and get to decide what is best for them. But haven't they done well enough to do without the marketing gimmicks employed everywhere else?
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Originally posted by Thrawn
I pay for an evolving game.
If I understand you correctly, if HTC stopped adding new planes, and various updates, you'd stop playing?
If this is correct, then you're saying that AH is not good enough as is, and you're just waiting around to see if it improves.
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In the future, a simple 0 will do.
:D
This whole crappy thread was made worthwhile by that line. :)
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Aside from the one that allows morons to procreate, none. If they restrict the right of throngs of new age hippies to protest, I'll have nothing to laugh at on the Evening News.
LOL!!! Who is sounding like the capitalist and who is sounding like the socialist??
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Originally posted by streakeagle
Yeah, I am one of those liberal tree-huggers that likes to play wargames (both the board game type and computer sims), own and drive gas guzzling sports cars, legally own and carry firearms, and served 8 years in the Navy on submarines.
So you're a survivalist, Anti-Government, Gun Nut, who is looking to shot it out with the "Revenu'ers?" (I'm only kidding, please but the Ar-15 down. I could never seriously insult a man who served our country. )
Originally posted by streakeagle
As for the poll being instrumental to improving the game... I think these message boards already provide more useful feedback than HTC can even use.
Not everyone who plays AH voices their opinion, or even logs into this board. Everyone who plays AH sees the Pop-Up Question.
Originally posted by streakeagle
Of course HT and the gang have been doing this awhile and get to decide what is best for them. But haven't they done well enough to do without the marketing gimmicks employed everywhere else?
How well is well enough? 4,000 Subscribers? 5,000? How many subscribers does AOL have? Yet they still send out thousands of free CD's to try their service. (They make great coasters, BTW)
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I honestly don't mind these poll questions at all; it only takes up about 5 seconds of my time and if the end product is to help make/market AH better then all the better! :)
Salute HTC! :)
Regards
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Originally posted by muckmaw
If I understand you correctly, if HTC stopped adding new planes, and various updates, you'd stop playing?
I don't know, maybe.
If this is correct, then you're saying that AH is not good enough as is, and you're just waiting around to see if it improves.
AH is good enough as it is as it is an evolving product. If it stopped evolving would you still be playing it in, say 10 years. Or would you be playing brand X as it could be light years ahead of AH as it is now.
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Originally posted by Dux
I think I hear a helicopter, where's my foil helmet?
Keneth, what's the FREQUENCY?!?!?!
-Sikboy
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Socialist?
I guess you would know. I mean, The first socialist government in North America was formed when the Co-Operative Commonwealth Federation (CCF) under Tommy Douglas won the provincial election in Saskatchewan.
Here comes the USA vs. Canada thread again....
:D
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Muck - the first step of a slippery slope is always innocuous. It's OK that HTC hears that the pop up irritates some of their customers - that, also, is "helping" HTC. That feedback might help prevent commercials being piped over AH Voice:
"20mm, 50 cal . . . does he mean it . . . Obsession, by Calvin Klein"
Pop ups before Scenarios:
"Fight in the Philipines brought to you by Gieko - the Insurance company with the Funny Name"
Messages in the radio buffer:
"Good kill, . Celebrate with a Coors Light"
If a customer's opinion matters, like it does for the survey, then the opinion that the survey is intrusive also matters.
-sudz
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Originally posted by Thrawn
If it stopped evolving would you still be playing it in, say 10 years. Or would you be playing brand X as it could be light years ahead of AH as it is now.
Point taken. If that was the case, I'd still be using a Commodore 64. But it does not have to be 10 years from now. If there was a clearly superior product on the market today, I would switch. (As I think most would)
This is why HTC needs the resources to keep expanding the player base, and stay competitive. Otherwise, Bye-Bye Aces High....
Is that a song?
Bye-Bye, Aces High
Flew my Pony into a Stoney
Now I'm sure I will die....
Eh, maybe not.
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It's all about the branding.
:eek:
I highly recommend the book "No Logo", by Naomi Klein.
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Sudz-
Do you really think it could come to that?
I think HTC knows the difference between a simple pop-up question, that offers the opportunity to decline to answer and a game intrusive sales pitch.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
I highly recommend the book "No Logo", by Naomi Klein.
So, your saying HTC employs disenfranchised people in Malaysia, paying them pennies a day, to write code 90 hours a week?
Now I know why Pyro has a funny accent.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
So, your saying HTC employs disenfranchised people in Malaysia, paying them pennies a day, to write code 90 hours a week?
Now I know why Pyro has a funny accent.
Heheh, quite the opposite.
The problem with marketing AH is that HTC is to damn loyal to their product and their vision of what the company should be. But I imagine that most of us like it that way.:)
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If one feels that this is a surreptitious and unethical design on our part, they shouldn't answer it. I don't even know why they'd be doing business with us. I can't spell it out any simpler than that. We're not doing this to build individual profiles or sell information, we're just looking for general information to help us spend our dollars to the best effect. We do have a privacy statement on our website btw.
Likening this to us calling you at home or saying that you have to answer a poll everytime you play AH is a bit of an exaggeration, no? On one hand, you say you want to participate in some polls such as what planes you want to see, but you don't want to see other polls at all. They're both marketing polls, how are we to determine which ones you want to see and which ones you don't? Perhaps a pre-question question to ask you if you want to see the question would solve that? Ok, that's getting absurd, but it's pretty easy to take this argument to absurdity as has been amply shown in this thread already.
It is not our intent to offend users, but it's also not possible to do anything without offending someone. Even cutting our price in half offended some people. We try to be reasonable and hope people will be reasonable in return. I can understand the opposite position and would hope they can understand ours, even if they don't necessarily like it. I would like people to understand that we're not trying to be a pain to them and that is a real consideration to us and one we try to avoid. But it's not something we can avoid at all costs.
Awhile back, we had a login message in the main arena relaying some news about something. Shortly after, I received an outright nasty email from a player cussing us up and down for "spamming" him with an unsolicited login message and having the gall to require him to click the close button on the message window before he could play. It comes down to what is reasonable and what is absurd and that is a personal and subjective opinion. Some people always fall outside of the bell curve, we just try to make sure that it's not us. I think it would be pretty obvious to everyone including ourselves if we fell outside of the reasonable area.
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Why do I have the sinking feeling Streak is counting bullets, and booking a flight to New York?
Does my profile say, New York? I need to clarify, I live on the NEW side of York, England. :eek:
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I have kept every CD that has ever been mailed to me... gonna glue cork to some and use them as coasters, find other artsy uses for the more colorful ones. I actually have quite a colorful collection... thought about covering a wall with them.
Despite all those CDs mailed to me, I never once tried AOL even for free. Stupid marketing ploys are aimed at sheep like customers.
AH has always had the best marketing ploy compared to any of its competitors: free download with free HtH/LAN play forever and 2 weeks full service for free. I wouldn't have ever played it so much if it hadn't been that way.
No one ever told me about AH. I found it because I am exactly the kind of customer they cater to: die hard air combat sim fanatics. If someone who would be willing to play and pay for AH doesn't know about it already, who would these people be? Obviously not the current customer base, because people with our attributes have already gravitated here: veterans from competing games and people who know how to search the net for free game demos.
I think the AH CDs were one of their best ideas. I have cable so I don't need it, but I am willing to bet you could scoop up a few of the younger gaming crowd by having cheap or even free CDs at stores that sell computer games. Quite a few of these guys would try it and quit (probably go back to Quake/Half-life etc.), but a financially significant number might grow up to be like Ripsnort and spend the rest of their lives playing flightsims hoping someone will model the P-61. HTC would be spending dollars out of its pocket to further the very community that permits its existence. I bet that would accomplish more than gathering and analyzing customer base polls.
P.S. In case you haven't realized it, while I mean and believe what I am saying, I certainly don't take any of this banter too seriously... posting here is half the fun of AH and this is just a game. If you think this is a life-threatening issue, go join the military and get a sense of humor the hard way. If I really felt strongly enough about this, I wouldn't have ever posted here. After seeing the very first poll box, I would have canceled my subscription and sent HTC a private email explaining why. I do have a sorespot for salesmen/marketing ploys though :p and will never miss an opportunity to criticize them or minimize my exposure to them.
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So...what did I miss? Did the LA7 and Spits all get removed from the game or something?
Is this the best thing we can come up with to squeak about?
:rolleyes: some people.....just cant do anything right by 'em.
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Streakeagle
I agree with you to a certain extent in which I do not like poll takers and the most ways they use the information either. However in the case of HTC polls I think it is good to help them any way I can to further the game along and to increase their business to keep the game costs down and the improvements coming. I will answer every poll they put up. Maybe the first reply you received was short but Pyro's reply was a good explanation of why they do not post the survey results.
ET
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choice is still yours.
if you don't want to answer..
or decline...
and you don't want to see the popup...
simple.
don't log on.
:eek:
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My, my. Some people get downright hostile when they are asked a question.
Do you get all huffy threaten to walk out when your barber asks a question?
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
choice is still yours.
if you don't want to answer..
or decline...
and you don't want to see the popup...
simple.
don't log on.
:eek:
Fantasic solution. Lets extended it. Anyone whoever has whined about any facet of AH, please cancel your accounts immediately.:rolleyes:
Edit: Who theatened to quit. I said I didn't like it.
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I know:
$15/month AH + occasional pop-up
or
$25/month AH & no pop-ups ever.
That way the occasional pop-up would be voluntary & it could be viewed as HTC paying customers for opinions to attract a larger customer base.
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Originally posted by BigGun
I know:
$15/month AH + occasional pop-up
or
$25/month AH & no pop-ups ever.
That way the occasional pop-up would be voluntary & it could be viewed as HTC paying customers for opinions to attract a larger customer base.
or
$1,000,000/month AH no pop-ups ever.
In which case we're really sitting pretty.
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We took a pole?? OUCH! :eek: That musta HURT!
But it couldnt hurt as nearly as bad as reading all these replies have been. :D
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Pyro,
No major offense intended. For me it's been more a debate about the problem this is a symptom of: marketing everything to death.
But collecting personal information for private gain such as how people spend their time and money outside of AH AND are not sharing the results is what I am criticizing. Plenty of other companies use public polls on their websites which allow you to see the results without building the poll into the game. I am expressing my personal preference (and long winded reasoning for that preference) for that format over the one you have chosen. The website poll may not get everyone that plays, but only because that is their choice: to be oblivious to your marketing needs and simply enjoy playing the game. They obviously know where the website is or they wouldn't have been able to download the game. I prefer to have the choice and don't see why anyone outside of HTC itself would be opposed to that.
Poll questions about what people would like to see in AH... i.e. planeset and feature clearly benefit me as a user directly. I would still prefer they be asked on a webpage and the results posted publicly. But, given the choice between compromising my anti-marketing attitude and not voting for the P-40B in AVG colors... I would have to answer the poll ;) That is what I meant by willing to answer some poll questions.
Originally posted by muckmaw
Why do I have the sinking feeling Streak is counting bullets, and booking a flight to New York?
Does my profile say, New York? I need to clarify, I live on the NEW side of York, England. :eek:
1) I don't have to count my bullets: I have 11 x 30 round AR-15/M-16 magazines that are always topped off and since rounds come 20 to a box, it means there are 10 leftover. I have 10 x 7 round 0.45 ACP mags plus 3 x 8 round 0.45 ACP mags that are always topped off and since rounds come 50 to a box, it means there are 6 leftover. The 600 rounds of 9mm are leftover from my dad's police issue which he transferred to me since I have a nice arms safe to store all of our weapons and ammo. I was the small arms petty officer on USS Dolphin and pretty much maintain my own weapons the same way I maintained the Navy's.
2) As a law abiding citizen, I could never actually bring my rifle to the New England area since most of the states there have decided that black rifles with plastic handguards and stocks with medium firepower are just too dangerous compared to the large caliber super accurate hunting rifles that are still legal. There is a federal commerce law that guaranteed my right to transport my legal weapons in one state to another legal state even though I had to travel through states where they were illegal. Since the California laws (where I was stationed) listed weapons specifically by manufacturer and model number, my "Colt Match-grade HBar Sporter" was legal there whereas as the nearly identical "Colt AR-15A2" was illegal (funny pointless laws). Of course my rifle was made just after they removed the bayonet lug to try to appease extremists opposing sale of "military grade" firearms :( So much for historical accuracy.
3) Use of deadly force is only justified in response to actions that a reasonable person would know or should know could result in death or serious bodily harm, the theft of hazardous items such as weapons or explosives, or in defense of national security. A difference of opinion and calling me liberal pinko-commie names is your right as a US citizen, not anything that would set off a gun toting psycho like me.
4) My IQ is high enough that if I wanted someone dead, it wouldn't happen in any way that would be traceable to me. What's the point of killing my enemies if I have to go to jail or be executed myself?
5) Anyone else that contributes to keeping AH alive can't possibly be someone I would feel too much ill will towards unless they are liars or criminals. I really do love AH and hope it continues to be the best air combat flight sim. The only thing that really pisses me off are liars. Salesmen tend to be liars. Marketing polls are tools of salesmen. Therefore marketing polls tend to piss me off.
6) This thread keeps getting larger and digressing like almost every thread I participate in... help, I can't stop typing and posting... must keep arguing... I contradict therefore I am :D
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WTG eskimo, you loser. Couldn't leave well enough alone, you nosey buccaneer.
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hehe
Drex
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Good grief Charlie Brown! Give me a nickel and we'll talk about it!
Someone needs a nap, time out or a bowl movement. This is the most “I live in a cocoon, please do not stimulate my brain. I have offered all my mental capacity. In my world, I’m not able to deal with a simple question or the option to decline” thread I’ve ever seen!
This rates next to the infamous, “ I pay my money, I have the RIGHT to use profanity in the main area!” thread.
I guess my bottom line is, if you don’t like it, just say 0!
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You have to Understand HiTech, he's a "Coder" you know binary, 1 or 0, his replies are usually a simple yes, or a simple No!.
or would you of rather him reply..
"110000111100000
111000010001001
001001001000100
010010010000111"
NUTTZ
Originally posted by Morsa
Olé !!!!.
If I were english speaker, I wouldn't express myself better than that.
I have always answered the polls, but this laconic:
NO
nevertheless the afterwards Pyro explanations,
had shocked my good mood to the matter.
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You left out a group of the players..
"The Surfers". Those that set plane on auto climb, alt tab out and download Pr0n. You know who you are!:)
NUTTZ
Originally posted by Kieran
You guys want results? Ok, here we go...
"We have discovered there are five distinctly different groups of players. For your convenience we have broken them down for your perusal.
Category 1: "The Generals". These are the folks that honestly believe the game was designed around themselves personally as the central figure in the play. These are the folks that expect folks to log in and fall in line with whatever Napoleonic conquest they have planned for the evening. To the General, there can be no fun without a crushing victory. The General is equally enthralled by playing board games such as chess or backgammon.
Category 2: "The Melee's". These folks want action, the faster the better. Even a 2-minute flight to the fight is is a minute and fifty-eight seconds too slow. High on the agenda of the Melee' player is airborne starts over the spot of the last death. No reason to let that guy that just whacked you get away...
Category 3: "The Whiner". As the name suggests, nothing is ever right. No matter what is done it is done wrong, no matter what volunteers do they screw up, no matter what addition to the plane set it is the wrong one or the wrong color, etc. The Whiner can be distinguished from the Pragmatist in that the Whiner's comment is always stated negatively and will never have an attainable goal. The Whiner pines for unreasonable features or additions despite the obvious detraction from the overall project or resources.
Category 4: "The Muckrakers". In short, chaos is their bag. They are here to be asocial, period. Not much more to be said, except they are often the pawns of the other categories at some times, and manipulate the other categories at other times.
Category 5: "The Pragmatists". These are the people that understand this is a game, and accept whatever situation exists. They may see problems in the game, but by-and-large they understand that very few problems are show-stoppers, and witness the growing popularity of the sim as an indication of the overall wisdom of whatever approach is currently utilized. The Pragmatist may have the occasional suggestion, but there are no demands made.
As you may guess, we are working hard to gather as much demographic information as we can in order to help us better serve you."
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LOL, Athou a well thought out reply, you get Silver, I still liked Hitech's reply:) Simple, authorative, and best of all, No spelling errors..HOW the HELL can you spell NO wrong?:)
NUTTZ
Originally posted by Pyro
If one feels that this is a surreptitious and unethical design on our part, they shouldn't answer it. I don't even know why they'd be doing business with us. I can't spell it out any simpler than that. We're not doing this to build individual profiles or sell information, we're just looking for general information to help us spend our dollars to the best effect. We do have a privacy statement on our website btw.
Likening this to us calling you at home or saying that you have to answer a poll everytime you play AH is a bit of an exaggeration, no? On one hand, you say you want to participate in some polls such as what planes you want to see, but you don't want to see other polls at all. They're both marketing polls, how are we to determine which ones you want to see and which ones you don't? Perhaps a pre-question question to ask you if you want to see the question would solve that? Ok, that's getting absurd, but it's pretty easy to take this argument to absurdity as has been amply shown in this thread already.
It is not our intent to offend users, but it's also not possible to do anything without offending someone. Even cutting our price in half offended some people. We try to be reasonable and hope people will be reasonable in return. I can understand the opposite position and would hope they can understand ours, even if they don't necessarily like it. I would like people to understand that we're not trying to be a pain to them and that is a real consideration to us and one we try to avoid. But it's not something we can avoid at all costs.
Awhile back, we had a login message in the main arena relaying some news about something. Shortly after, I received an outright nasty email from a player cussing us up and down for "spamming" him with an unsolicited login message and having the gall to require him to click the close button on the message window before he could play. It comes down to what is reasonable and what is absurd and that is a personal and subjective opinion. Some people always fall outside of the bell curve, we just try to make sure that it's not us. I think it would be pretty obvious to everyone including ourselves if we fell outside of the reasonable area.
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NUTTZ! Please, no more quotes! You’re reducing my mental frames per second. ;) :p :)
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Yawn...
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Holy Cow!
I'm sorry I asked!
(Not really, this is a pretty funny thread.)
Frankly, I was good with "No" or even"0".
If HTC determines that 95% of it's customers builds model airplanes (or whatever) though these polls, what's going to happen? They will figure out how to advertise to modelers. Then the customer base increases, and the company grows, and then they can afford to hire a few more programers to build all those things that we have been nagging for! Fine with me.
I think we only see the polls about every 2 weeks, they take a few seconds, and I actually get a mild kick out of them. Never imagined anyone would get mad about it!
(Quote from Pyro) "Some people always fall outside of the bell curve..."
Yea, by about 4 standard deviations! LOL
eskimo
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Originally posted by Ozark
Someone needs a nap, time out or a bowl movement. This is the most “I live in a cocoon, please do not stimulate my brain. I have offered all my mental capacity. In my world, I’m not able to deal with a simple question or the option to decline” thread I’ve ever seen!
So you think the sheep the mindless click a but is using using more brain power, eh?? heheh
This rates next to the infamous, “ I pay my money, I have the RIGHT to use profanity in the main area!” thread.
Next thing you know, the cheerleading sheep will be calling those who have differing opinions nazis.
Please forgive me, I fear that I don't believe that absolutely every and anything that has ever been graced by the mere presence of the the letters "HTC", let alone the actual company, is perfect. I have dishonored myself, myfamily and my squad...I will go commit seppuku now.
:rolleyes:
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WOW! Thank you!
I saw the light!
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Originally posted by Ozark
WOW! Thank you!
I saw the light!
Any time.:D
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I agree! I have seen about 4 of these in the last 6 months! This is way too much!! This sensitive information HTC has obtained from me may be in direct violation of this countries privacy act!
Do you realize HiTech Creations now have information on me about how many airshows I have attanded in the last 2 years!! This could possibly be a breach of national security!!
OMG!! Call out the guards!!! What possibly could be more destructive??? I refuse to believe that the reply "I refuse to answer" is the answer. I have answered 4 of these sensitive information polls and it has taken about 12 seconds of my personal time!! If these polls assist HTC in growing their business then I demand to be compensated for my 12 seconds!!
:)
Actually my real reply is, "Lighten Up Francis!"
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Originally posted by Swager
Actually my real reply is, "Lighten Up Francis!"
Yeah, so is mine. I mean what's the big deal about giving the customers the option of disabling this.
Edit: Anyways, thanks for listening.
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Originally posted by NUTTZ
You have to Understand HiTech, he's a "Coder" you know binary, 1 or 0, his replies are usually a simple yes, or a simple No!.
or would you of rather him reply..
"110000111100000
111000010001001
001001001000100
010010010000111"
As scary as it sounds I just figured this one out.
In hex: 0A 3A 1A 22 49 22 24 87
Assuming you meant that MSB to be zeros. Converting that to ASCII and you get...pretty much the way HiTech spells things...grammer's not far off, either.
:D
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Originally posted by Puck
Seriously, as much as I enjoy those prolixic answers from HT he might want to spend less effort composing in-depth replies. I'm sure it detracts form available coding time.
In the future, a simple 0 will do.
:D
lol a classic!
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Thank you Streak for raising the tard value of this thread to a level I had previously though impossible to achieve. Amazing.
SOB
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LOL...this is what came up when I clicked on Superfly's link, just before my browser crashed and re-started. :D
(http://www.matthoffman.cc/bb/ieproblem.jpg)
SOB
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Really? It's just an mp3 file. Or maybe you have succombed to my evil marketting schemes and entered into a "world of sh**t" :D
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Yeah right Superfly, I know it's just more of that evil marketing crap. Piss off mister! Do you realize how many second <'s' left off intentionally) it took me to click on the 'Don't Send' button? Huh? Do you realize the kind of pain and anguish and frustration that box brought into my life by popping up on my screen? Soliciting for my information for free so that they can make my user experience more enjoyable in the future, without asking me first? Do you think they'd do me the service of showing me all of the information submitted to them and compiled by them if I asked them to give it to me for free?!?...I think NOT!
Filthy marketing buggering bastards, them and you too Superfly, I'M PISSED NOW AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANY MORE!!!!!!!!!!!
SOB
:D
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I watched... a snail
crawl along the edge of a straight razor...
crawl along the edge.. and survive.
this is my dream... this is my nightmare..
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I think we should have a bar code tattooed to our head that has to be scanned before entering the MA. We also might think about a $1000.00 pledge of faith to HT every few months.:eek:
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I think we should have a bar code tattooed to our head that has to be scanned before entering the MA.
What do you think an IP is? HTC is "big borther" (and Pyro would be "mini-me").
They see you when your vulching, they know whern you're a dweeb..........
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May I be excused now? My brain is full.
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Is one opinion that is different then HTC's equate to an attack on HTC as a whole?
It appears that some believe this it true. It also appears that some people believe that HTC can't withstand the horrific onslaught of a differing opinion of 1 of their policies.
Brave bbs warriors!! HTC is saved once again by your glorious insults and rhetoric. I for one will sleep easier tonight.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by eskimo2
(Quote from Pyro) "Some people always fall outside of the bell curve..."
Yea, by about 4 standard deviations! LOL
eskimo
I have never considered it to be a bad thing to be outside the bell curve. Even 4 standard deviations is not far enough :D
The number of people that felt it was necessary to correct and/or insult my position contrary to the mainstream as they see it is impressive.
Maybe if more people said something or better yet voted with their dollars, we wouldn't have to watch a commercial for coke and a new TV show after paying $7 to see a movie. But most people don't mind spending an extra 20 to 30 minutes watching commercials before getting what they paid for, so we all have to live with it if we want to enjoy a night out at the movies. Times are always changing, but almost never for the better. I am opposed to the commercialization of my life and have no qualms challenging anyone on that issue even if I am a minority of 1 in billions.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Is one opinion that is different then HTC's equate to an attack on HTC as a whole?
It appears that some believe this it true. It also appears that some people believe that HTC can't withstand the horrific onslaught of a differing opinion of 1 of their policies.
Brave bbs warriors!! HTC is saved once again by your glorious insults and rhetoric. I for one will sleep easier tonight.:rolleyes:
LOL...or you could just not hit the link to this thread....let alone reply to it multiple times... :rolleyes:
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Drexx: "The key to reversing a bandit, who is above you, is to make your plane look like an easy target."
I must have a U-Turn sign on top of my C.205 then. :D
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Twitism is running rabid within this thread.
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agh
i leave for a weekend and look at what happens
i must say that if steak hates all polls then by god make a little option to turn them off
after all, they take up so much time to answer and i would hate to miss out on a vulch because i was going over my final answer for 'what do you like most..' etc
hell, i view htc as a bunch of friends and i dont feel worried that my answers are being used as anything but useful to them.
it's not a pop up banner.
big brother syndrome. yeesh.
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What many of you are failing to realize (funny how so many new people have an opinion on the issue once Pyro posted) is that its marketing's intrusiveness - not how difficult or easy it is to cooperate and give in.
As in steakeagle's example, it's easy to sit thru commercials before the main feature. It's also easy to click a radio button. I can handle it. I'm tough like that.
But can any of you deny that if the whole of marketing questionaires, "non-invasive" advertising, junk mail, telemarketing, or sidewalk surveys disappeared overnight (or even a significant part) you wouldn't prefer it?
All that's been said in this thread is "I wish it weren't there" - believe me, I'm a big fan of HTC. The specific case of the AH radio box doesn't bother me as much as steakeagle, but in a general sense, I want to add my voice to the growing discontent who think marketing (as an industry) is getting out of hand.
-sudz
edit: added industry qualification
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I just can't resist replying to this:
Originally posted by moose
hell, i view htc as a bunch of friends and i dont feel worried that my answers are being used as anything but useful to them.
it's not a pop up banner.
big brother syndrome. yeesh.
I fail to see where a poll box is any different than a popup banner. Just as harmless when you don't reply. Also just as useless and annoying given its fundamental purpose.
I have never had a friend require my credit card info and charge me a monthly service fee. Nor has a friend ever asked me a single poll question to identify a pattern so he can find more friends like me.
As friendly and courteous as HTC is, they are a business whose main objective has to be profit. They are as friendly as most businesses who want to make profits should be since legitimate companies survive by satisfying their customers.
This puts me in the adversarial position of being a customer whose main objective is getting the best possible service/product for the least possible cost. It is their right to choose what service/product they provide and who they are willing to provide it to. It is my right to communicate to them what service/product I would like and to choose their service/product if they offer it to me.
Thanks to this thread, they are now fully aware of my position and that it is very much a minority position. So I expect them to make no changes in their polling system/policies. If anyone actually read my full posts instead of just the parts they didn't like, they would know that I have no intention of canceling my subscription to AH because my only beef with HTC in the first place is refusing someone elses request to post the results of all these "harmless" polls. Would it be the end of the world if iEN and WWIIOnline knew what % of AH players built model airplanes or attended airshows in the last year? Treating shallow marketing data as confidential material is as laughable as some of the security policies on my submarines. But I guess the competition is so tight that the publication of our freely given opinions could make or break HTC.
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Originally posted by Pyro
To elaborate on HT's poignant answer, the reason we don't share the results is because we collect this information for more than just curiosity's sake. It's valuable information that we can use to help make marketing and other decisions. That's not something we want to go through the trouble of collecting just to give away.
Thanks for taking the polls though. We do have plans to use them for more fun things in the future such as voting on planes, etc.
It's called an alternative revenue stream boys:)
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Awright! Enough of this! I'm takin all of yer names down and adding them to a list. I'm sending you each a freakin enema!
And in future if you want to avoid enemas, include a lot more fiber in yer diets, and cut down on the caffeine!
Sheesh!
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If you don't like the polls try this: next time a poll comes up when you log in, place both hands behind your head, interlock your fingers and as hard as you can, slam your head down on the nearest desk. Two or three treatments like that and you'll stop worring about the polls. :p
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Originally posted by moose
agh
i leave for a weekend and look at what happens
Sorry Moose .. No more weekends for you. Heck, we need you here! ;)
I'm sure everyone is just having fun at this point. Thanks for the entertainment.
If you have a complaint, please contact HTC and leave members of the this board able and ready to tackle other problems.
:p
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Anyone else sick of this stupid thread?
OK, how about this...
The last person to post on this thread is retarded.
eskimo
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I don't mind the loggin polls.I also don't mind someone posting on BBS that he/she is annoyed by them.I also don't mind brown-nosers to HTC's BBS posts,you know,the ones with 5 smiley faces.(Ok,I lied,they are getting a bit much)
What I find most interesting to read are the ones who ask prodding questions or make controversial replies and take the time to back them up with much thought and personal insight.(Wotan,Tac..etc)
Thrawny,take a breather and hopefully come back soon mate...
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Didn't see the latest poll before I made my last post...Now I am against them...WTG HTC...
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I just can't refuse eskimo's challenge :D
The way I see it... HTC aren't selling carburetors or Sony TVs. If more TVs are sold based on any feedback I give them, why would I care... I wouldn't... and yeah I guess if I thought about it long enough that kinda marketing would be intrusive.
But when HTC ask about the magazines I read or if I build models, then they get to place ads in more effective places. More AH inclined people see the ads and some of em sign up here. Good for HTC? Yeah. But it also means more people to kill, more variety and popluated arenas. A fun sim who's survival is not in question.
When I help them, I'm really helping *me*. Both win. Can't say quite the same thing about most alla that *other* marketing that people are complaining about. In this case it's different... and knocking HTC's marketing efforts seem to be missing that point.... reactionary.
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At lest email the poll to the one who wants it. That's BS about "We need to keep it safe" Gezz:mad: Some people just want to know
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How many perk points did I get for reading this thread?
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:D
btw HTC - keep up the good work.
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Nuttz said: HOW the HELL can you spell NO wrong?
I don't no!