Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: TheOxman on April 19, 2002, 06:34:34 AM
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Yummy. Looks fun. I feel the battle of midway approaching. What do ya'll think about these A/C?
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and not just midway Scenario and TODs, Perhaps 1st Guadalcanal is on the horizon. The CAF should be happy about that :)
-Sikboy
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The P-39 or at least the P-40 MIGHT be around the corner?:)
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Hmmm... aren't we going to need some more Japanese planes first?
I assume it's a matter of time.
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Of course. HT is hiding the Jap plane they have instore for us (I hope) I heard alot of talk about the Ki84. I wonder what -trop-bomber they are going to come out with first Kate or Jill. prob the Jill
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Originally posted by TheOxman
Yummy. Looks fun. I feel the battle of midway approaching. What do ya'll think about these A/C?
Well, the A-20G should be monster for attack missions. A-20 pilots will tell you that the Havoc can turn nearly as well as the Jug, and has more effective forward firepower, with all guns concentrated in the nose. In some respects, I expect the A-20G to be a tougher opponent than the Bf 110G-2, largely due to the far better defensive gun set.
Spitfire and Hurricane pilots will be faced with another fighter that can out-turn them with the new Wildcats coming. Climb rates aren't anything to brag about (especially for the F4F-4). But, the Wildcat can dive very well, and is a typical product of the Grumman "Ironworks", meaning tough as nails.
In addition, the FM-2 can carry a diverse array of underwing stores or drop tanks that provide for impressive range. A lot of people are going to be selecting the FM-2 over the Seafire for fleet defense, for its excellent agility and durability (no radiator).
With approximately 200 more horsepower and a few hundred pounds less weight than the F4F-4, the FM-2 proved to be very nearly as agile as late model Zeros (the A6M-5b being a mid-war model). Therefore, those who fly the Zeke will have serious competition at turnfighting. However, unlike the Zeke, the Wildcat can maneuver well at high-speed. Also, the FM-2 should accelerate considerably better than the F4F-4.
These three, and the Boston are very welcome additions IMO.
My regards,
Widewing
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i dont really know that much of the A-20. it' looks like it's going to be a hella sweet attack bird.
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Originally posted by Dowding (Work)
Hmmm... aren't we going to need some more Japanese planes first?
I assume it's a matter of time.
It's true that we'll need more Japanese planes before we can do any of this, but I was operating under the hope that HTC will release these planes as a "set" sort of like how 1.09 handed us a BoB plane "set"
-Sikboy
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I'm actually excited to see if any other early-Pacific aircraft are introduced with the Wildcat. I would guess it could be a good time to modify a few existing aircraft such as the A6M5 to an A6M2 and the P-38L to a P-38G or even the F6F-5 to the F6F-3 (only because I like the typical 3-tone paint job on the earlier Hellcats.) A Ki-43 Oscar and P-40 would make for excellent additions with an early-Pacific plane set release for the next update and really start to give Aces High the opportunity to present some new flavors. Asking for the dive bombers may be too much though for the next release, such as Dauntless, Kate and Val.
HTC, thank you for the Wildcat!
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Must......have.......P-40........
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The new Wildcats would look a lot better with some nose art on the fuselage, maybe some red and white stripes on the rudder? Or at least a stripe on the wings?
And I've seen photos of an A-20, painted black, with a skull and crossbones painted on the nose, with gun barrells poking out the eye sockets and mouth. How about it? Please? That plane really cries out for some artwork!
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Before we add anyother planes I think we REALLY need some biwingers!! then some jap planes and p40 :) (early model zero would be nice but not before we get biwingers:D )
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(cough) Ahem! Battle of Britain without ANY Heinkels or Dorniers? I DO hope you are joking?!
:-)
Esme
CO, Kampfgeschwader 2 "Holzhammer"
PS: I'll second that call for a few of the notable biplanes.... Fiat CR42, Swordfish, Hs123, Gladiator... (add an SM79 and the Reggia Aeronautica is up and running...)
And I'd quite like a Catalina and a He115, too! :-)
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Originally posted by Esme
(cough) Ahem! Battle of Britain without ANY Heinkels or Dorniers? I DO hope you are joking?!
I didn't say that it was a complete set. Frankly its good enough for me right now.
-Sikboy
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You can see the rudder differences in the next few posts.
F4F-4 "White 84" of Capt Joe Foss, VMF-121, October '42. Foss ended the war with 26 kills. He bagged several of the 19 Zeros he destroyed in the Guadalcanal campaing in this bird.
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and...
FM-2 "White 17" of VF-26, USS Santee, Oct '44.
And a couple of alternative schemes...
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Well, OK, it's not the F4F-4...
F4F-3 "Black F-2" flown by Lt Cdr Courtney Shands, VF-71, USS Wasp, Aug 42. Shands scored five ground kills in this bird.
and, finally...
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FM-2 "White B6" Mah Baby flown by Ensign Joe McGraw, VC-10, USS Gambier Bay, Oct '44. This bird wears the flags of his first 3 (of 5) kills.
Rocket
AH CPID Rokkit
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Originally posted by TheOxman:
Of course. HT is hiding the Jap plane they have instore for us (I hope) I heard alot of talk about the Ki84.
I hate to break it to you, but we need a lot more than one Japanese plane. Its not like we have been stacked with Japanese aircraft and were just waiting for the American stuff to be added.
We need early war US stuff (which seems to be on the way, though a P-39 and P-40 would be great too) and lots of Japanese stuff from throughout the war.
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some info and cool pics... http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/ac-usn22/f-types/fm2.htm
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Those are some nice images, Rokkit. Though normally I would've preferred the slightly more maneuverable F4F-3 to the heavier gunned and heavier overall (wing folding) F4F-4, I'm completely happy to learn that HTC chose to model one of Joe Foss' birds and thrilled that some early-war Pacific is on its way!
The N1K is quite prolific in the MA and represents its country well, so I'm not so sure we need to introduce a Japanese aircraft just for the MA. Rather, I'd personally like to see "themes" being introduced such as the recent addition of BoB planes and hopefully early-war Pacific such as Midway or Guadalcanal and the like (Africa, Mediteranean, etc.) IMO, Europe is pretty well covered at this point. More than just jumping into different airframes, I like being able to jump into different theaters and time-frames of the war and look forward to some early-war PTO!
Added: A lot of people complain about the numbers of American aircraft and I don't think that's fair. You can't compare in the aggregate because unlike Japan, Germany and Russia, the USA fought across the board in both Europe and the Pacific where requirements for aircraft did vary. Comparing USA fighters to Japanese in the Pacific, you have 2-non perked Corsairs, a Lightning and Hellcat compared to the A6M5, Ki-61 and N1K. It's not all that skewed IMO.
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Originally posted by Karnak
I hate to break it to you, but we need a lot more than one Japanese plane. Its not like we have been stacked with Japanese aircraft and were just waiting for the American stuff to be added.
We need early war US stuff (which seems to be on the way, though a P-39 and P-40 would be great too) and lots of Japanese stuff from throughout the war.
I agree, and disagree at the same time with ya Karnak, I fully believe that when ( i'm pretty sure it's a given we'll get it) the KI-84 is introduced, it will do a lot for the Pac type scenarios, giving the Japanese planeset a much needed boost in the latewar department.
But, i also agree that we need a much broader japanese planeset to fully exploit the possiblities we have before us. I personally want a Ki-43, somethin to shoot down in my F4F :D
I'm patient tho, i think HTC has the idea of where to go, and will do it in time. I wouldn't be too suprised if this next version is the most # of new planes added in a very looong time :) (which is a good thing imo)
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Good post, Steven. I agree with you. And here's another Guad bird.
F4F-4 "White 2" unit and pilot unknown, USMC, Guadalcanal, Sept '42. Photographed on the island by photographer from Stars and Stripes.
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Steven,
Actually it is this:
A6M5b
Ki-61-I-KAIc
Ki-67
N1K2-J
vs
B-26B
F4U-1
F4U-1D
F6F-5
P-38L
P-47D-11
P-47D-25
P-47D-30
P-51B
P-51D
PT Boat
TBM-3
There are many impartant Japanese aircraft that have not been added and dozens of interesting, if not important aircraft needed.
At the very minimum, given the late war context, a balnced Japanese planeset would have looked like this:
A6M5b
B6N2
Ki-44-IIb
Ki-61-I-KAIc
Ki-67
Ki-84-Ia
N1K2-J
I really want the H8K2 as well, but given its low production I can't count it as integral. The H8K2 is the only aircraft that can give the Japanese any semblence of offensive punch though. It carries more than twice as much as any other Japanese bomber.
We did need the early was US stuff and I'm glad to see it being added. That doesn't change the fact that the Japanese are massively under represented in the current planeset. Of all the major participants, the US and Japan fielded the greatest number of designs, both having entirely separate navy and army airforces.
I am assuming that there are Japanese aircraft yet to be announced that we are getting in 1.10.
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Karnak,
I do see your point. But I think it's unfair to compare the USA across-the-board to other countries who fought in only one theater. Yes, most types of USA aircraft fought in both theaters, but really, each type actually flew predominantly in one theater or the other. I say we need to look at plane-sets based on the theater and look at only those types of aircraft which flew predominantly in that theater. I'm sorry Japan didn't fight in Europe and had their own Ki-666 Mustang designed for that type of war. The same can be said with the LW vs the Mustangs and Thunderbolts and you can't really count the Corsairs and Hellcats because they don't really belong in that theater. (I'm generalizing, I know some flew there.) The LW 190s and 109s are not the natural adversary of the Zeke and so you have to have Corsairs and Hellcats just like you need Mustangs and Thunderbolts against the 109s and 190s. If we want Pacific and European wars represented, you will have to have a predominance of USA aircraft in the overall plane set because they fought in both theaters and in large numbers.
I am all for more Japanese aircraft in the long run. I just don't like how the USA aircraft are bunched together in comparisons and I realize I may be the only one who looks at it in that way.
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Rokkit, that's a really sweet image! I hope we get an early Zeke to go with our new Wildcats. If they do make an A6M2, I expect it to roll even worse than the A6M5 we have because it had a larger wing. I suspect early-war Pacific will be some tough fought dogfights in the CT.
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Steven,
You missed one of my points. Even though the Japanese were only fighting in two theatres they had a huge list of aircraft for the same reasons that the US did. They had entirely separate navy and army airforces, each with its own list of aircraft.
Also note that I did not list off all the UA aircraft, just most of them. The B-17G didn't really see service in the pacific so I didn't include it. I simply included all US aircraft that saw service in the pacific, not simply listing all US aircraft in AH.
None of this matters a whit in the MA. Anybody can fly anything for any side in the MA. The original nationality of any given aircraft is entirely irrelevant in the MA.
This does, however, matter a huge amount for the CT and scenarios.
EDIT:
BTW, the A6M5 and A6M2 have the same wing, except for the thickened skin on the A6M5. You're thinking of the A6M3 with clipped wingtips as having smaller wings
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An A6M2 would be sweet, Steven, and I gotta ton of them. Not many in the non-plain gray scheme, though.
A6M2 of 6th Kokutai, Rabaul, November '42.
Rocket
AH CPID Rokkit
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Karnak, actually I didn't miss that point. And I think you meant to say the Japanese only fought in one theater (I don't recall swarms of Zekes and Bettys bombing London or defending Berlin.) Anyway, my comment was more addressed to those who say "no more USA aircraft, we have enough!" I hope you saw me type it a few times already, but I actually support more Japanese aircraft though would prefer early-war because I find that more interesting and more even in the combat; however, late-war Japanese aircraft would survive in the MA better of course. At this point I think we have the MA well covered with the N1K, Spit, LA7, 190D/109G10 and P51. Again, more to my overall point, we will end up having more USA than anything else because Aces High incorporates aircraft from both the PTO and Euro theaters and that's just a fact and the way it has to be.
Also, I'm almost certain the wingspan of the A6M5 is a few feet shorter than the A6M2 which made it roll a little bit faster. You strike me as being an encyclopedia on this stuff, so I'll yield to what you say. And yeah, the A6M3 (most of them) had the clipped tips, but I didn't mean that.
[edit]
I found some data online:
A6M2 Dimensions: Wingspan 39 feet 4 7/16 inches
A6M5a/b Dimensions: Wingspan 36 feet 1 1/16 inches
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Steven,
The Japanese fought in two theatres.
Pac and CBI.
They didn't fight in NA, Europe or Eastern Front.
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Ki-61-I-b Yes:)
Ki-61-I-b Yes sir:cool:
Ki-61-I-b one more:D
Ki-61-I-b wantted!!:mad:
Okey Okey.....;)
Ki-61-I-b of New Guinea PlzzzzZzzzz...Zzz...slept.:o
Since there was no reaction, it became sleepy.
HTC,Hearing?
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Oh please Tatyu! Please refer to our beloved plane with the Japanese designations!
Ki-61-I-b as Ki-61-I-Otsu
Ki-61-I-KAIc as Ki-61-I-Tei
Less confusing that way.
for the discussion on this issue, please refer to the following...
Info on the Ki-61 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47692)
What is the Ki-61-I-KAIc? (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45476)
Petition to change the name of the Hien on AH (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47106)
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so will it be fixed in 1.10?
-Hermit
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Originally posted by Mitsu
so will it be fixed in 1.10?
-Hermit
I hope so... but... I heard HTC is busy along other things... perhaps 1.11?? :(
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ohhh Ok, FD. I found an answer..."2 weeks". :D
-Hermit
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Two front's, CBI and the PAC, Just how big was the CBI hmmmm freaking huge, China, SE Asia, and Into India, then the Russians show up at the very end, as a distraction we can toss in the Alutions for a little Northern exposhure:)
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Originally posted by Karnak
Steven,
The Japanese fought in two theatres.
Pac and CBI.
They didn't fight in NA, Europe or Eastern Front.
I'd argue that the Japanese fought in five major theaters:
Southwest Pacific Area
North Pacific (Attu, Kiska, etc)
Central Pacific
China-Burma-India
Mongolia (although little/no fighting until summer of 1945, Japan was forced to keep significant numbers of forces in place due to fear of Soviet attack)
My regard,
Widewing
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Uhm, you guys are nitpicking on the theaters issue. I was generalizing to try to keep things simple and avoid getting into a really long discourse of the war. Maybe I should've said "Hemispheres" of the war, I dunno. Basically, you have differing types of aircraft in each *hemisphere*. LW was NA and Europe and Med and all those others (but basically European combatants.) And even for the USA (be aware, I'm generalizing and don't be throwing P40s were in Pac and NA) were segregated between these *hemispheres* (pick a type of aircraft and most of them were either in one theater or the other and not evenly distributed) with some exceptions, until the closing days. Anyway, I'm done. Yay on the F4F and boo on those who count USA aircraft in the aggregate when comparing to only LW or only Japanese.
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We should have everything in the movie Midway.
Aichi D3A2 "Val"
Nakajima B5N2 "Kate"
SBD Dauntless
PBY-5 Catalena
B-26 capable of carying torpedo
early Zeek
Would be nice:D :D
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If I were to bet on the other 1.10 aircraft, I'd say A6M2, Ki-43 and D3A2.
I'd like to see some more modern Japanese aircraft, but those are needed too and given the announced aircraft so far those would fit as part of a Theatre "set" best.
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We really do need allot more jap fighters and bombers this is what i think need to be added in the next couple of patchs:
B25
B24
WW2 biplanes (There are no biplanes!! we need them bad!!)
A6m2
Another jap bomber
More jap fighters at least 2(early war)
And a sea plane would be cool!
(I'm not too familiar with the jap planes but we do need some more)
The biplanes and japplanes are prolly needed the most out of those.
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not Jap
it's Japanese :)
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What's the differacne between the A6M5 and A6M2 Zeros? Can anyone sheld some light on this subject for me?
And yes "Jap" is acceptable
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A6m2 is just an earlier version of the A6m5 that looks nicer IMO.
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Originally posted by TheOxman
What's the differacne between the A6M5 and A6M2 Zeros? Can anyone sheld some light on this subject for me?
And yes "Jap" is acceptable
Ummm. Maybe not to all Japanese?
Glad to see that you're fine with it though.
Really people, how hard is it to type those 5 letters? I never used to do it either, until a Japanese friend told me that it bugged him. So I switched. But that's just me.
-Sikboy
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My understanding is that the A6M5 had armor for the pilot and fuel tanks so it was heavier and also had a shorter wing so it rolled faster than the A6M2 and could dive at a faster speed. It had a more powerful engine and had a higher top speed as well. However, even though the A6M2 rolled more poorly than the A6M5, the A6M2 was more manueverable being lighter overall.
I really enjoy this site's information on the Zeke variants (almost known as the "Ben" or "Ray".)
http://www.kotfsc.com/aircraft/zero.htm
I had a tough time fighting a Zeke today in AH and can only imagine the maneuvers an A6M2 will make. However, it better be a pretty flimsy aircraft.
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Originally posted by Sikboy
Ummm. Maybe not to all Japanese?
Glad to see that you're fine with it though.
Really people, how hard is it to type those 5 letters? I never used to do it either, until a Japanese friend told me that it bugged him. So I switched. But that's just me.
-Sikboy
Sorry to offend the entire Japanese people :o . But it's still acceptable to me and yes i'm fine with it. If it bugs them that dang much i will write it all out and keep threads like these from ever gettin' started. sorry guys
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Originally posted by Viper17
We should have everything in the movie Midway.
Aichi D3A2 "Val"
Nakajima B5N2 "Kate"
SBD Dauntless
PBY-5 Catalena
B-26 capable of carying torpedo
early Zeek
Would be nice:D :D
don't you actually mean f6f's and at6-texans?
:p
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"Basically, you have differing types of aircraft in each *hemisphere*. LW was NA and Europe and Med and all those others (but basically European combatants.) "
What about the Spits, Seafires, Hurri's, Mossies and other "ETO only" types, Steven?
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oxman you better be Japanese, it's like saying "The Porsche is too uncomfortable" without even sitting in one.
My classmate said "Jap'" in one of his reports and the teacher had to tell him that it was disrespectful to say that
Just a tip
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Seeker,
<>
I don't know how many times I have to say it, but I used the word "generalizing" so many times...to nitpick like that isn't fair. I don't believe I ever said "only types", and if I did, it was a slip-up that should've been easily recognized due to my normal use of terms of generalities. I still consider that most aircraft were either predominantly in one "hemisphere" (Euro vs Euro combattants) or the other "hemisphere" (battles of the Pacific and Pacific Rim.) Also, you probably didn't clue onto the fact I purposely left the Brits out by name in my posts.
Basically, look at this page and run through each aircraft and tell me if it flew in one *hemisphere* more than the other or if it was even among my two defined *hemispheres* of war and tally up your results.
http://members.cox.net/barking.pig/fighters.htm
Sheesh, man oh man.
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I'll take it under advisement
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Nice page, hadn't seen that one before..
However, of all the planes shown on it, the only ones which should be limited to one hemishpere or another are German and Italian.
The Brits, then, as now, were everywhere.
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Seeker, you can't read. Who said "limited"? I stated that these aircraft were "predominantly in one hemisphere or the other." The problem with the British is that they basically used the same airframes everywhere they fought whereas the USA had specific aircraft which were predominantly in one hemisphere or the other. So to make a good Pac set, you'll need the Corsair, Hellcat, Wildcat and P40 but you wouldn't include those in a good Euro plane set. Can you imagine no P51 or P47 in a Euro set because AH built up USA Pac first and people felt we had too many USA aircraft already when comparing to the LW or Russians and we tried to make the numbers exactly even between combattant countries? I've made an "abundunce" point in previous posts because yes, there were some Martletts (Wildcats) in Europe and there were some P51 and P47s in the Pacific, but (at least with the 51 and 47) were predominantly European at least until very late. (Predominantly means a greater amount, not all.) My original point was that it isn't quite fair to count all USA aircraft across the board when they compare to say LW or Russian because they didn't fight in both...well, Theaters? Hemispheres? Naval vs Land? I hope this is at least clear. I would say it is only fair to complain about an abundance of one country's aircraft in the game if you keep the fact in mind the USA was in the two Hemispheres basically using totally different aircraft at the core in the two Hemispheres. Don't count the Corsair against LW aircraft but you can against Japanese aircraft. Since the Spitfire fought in both "hemispheres", that problem is basically solved and that's a big reason why I wasn't including them in a lot of my posts.
Anyway, my knowledge of British Pacific operations is lacking and you'll be able to give me lessons on that subject any day. I don't discount your being very, very knowledgeable. Oh wait, by "Pacific" I mean Southwest Pacific, Indo-China, Aleutians, Kurile Islands, etc....
[edit], that's some of my worst writing but I hope it conveys the message. I'm too tired from the seminar I'm currently at and gonna leave my jumbled description as-is. I'll leave this post alone now too. Take care.
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You wouldn't include the P40 in the Euro set? Any particular reason why?
And I can quite easily imagine a ETO set with no American iron. There wasn't any for a couple of years.
But it would make as much sense as leaving the RAF and RAAF out of the PTO, wouldn't it?