Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lazs2 on April 19, 2002, 09:45:52 AM
-
Because I'm lazy I copied this from my other post.. I really thing it is becoming apparent that we have outgrown the "perk" system and that the time is near to come up with a viable way to fly the early war rides besides scenarios and the CT.
well... a few have said that i complain without offering sugestions to fix the problem. I see a lot of complaining about the RPS and the lack of a viable place for early war planes and the fact that late war perk planes are so expensive but... I see very few solutions except my "area" arena.
Sure... if there aren't enough good planes in each area people will be flying the one or two good ones but... I don't see having any problem modling at least 4-5 very comparible early war planes that would all have strengths and weaknesses against each other. More in the mid war area and about the same in the late war area. Really rude... wouldn't you love to fight against planes with equal abilities? No more calling you a sissy runstang pilot?
I don't want the CT to be the only place we can fly early war planes because it is allied vs axis and it is deserted most times and... no one in my squad even considers it. And... they are mean to me in there.
So let's hear some solutions... Or... I would love to hear why people wouldn't like an "area" arena with three seperate areas in the same arena. One big community where anyone could fly any plane they liked anytime simply by clicking on the appropriate field. Early war planes available in all areas, mid war in mid and late areas and late in late war only areas.
Wotan......Again... axis vs allied exagerates the "best plane" concept. giving you no choice but to be B&Zed to death or to switch sides. MA style "anything goes"let's the strengths and weaknesses of all the planes work for us. The fast plane can't B&Z your slower plane with immunity as much becaus an identical plane to his may run him down for doing it. An area arena would have at least twice as many viable planes in each "area" as an allied vs axis would have in it's simular "time period". Plus, you could simply click your way to another "era" and set of viable planes.
I would start by simply having an early war "area" in the current arena.
If someone has a better idea I would be glad to hear it.
lazs
-
naaa
With 1.10 what is HTC gonna do? up the MA Max # of clients to 700? its time for a second arena...
Mebbe one full planeset, and one 1939-1943
SKurj
-
Yes!
-
I like the way it keeps the community in one arena, and I can see how an early war only planeset could be a lot of fun. However, I don't have any problems with the arena the way it is now either, and I like the variety of different planes I can run into.
What's the limit to how many can be in one arena anyway. Is there a limit small enough that it would affect us in the near future?
SOB
-
Area! Area! Area!
Area! Area! Area!
-
So… What you’re saying is that upping a flight of B17’s, especially when HTC implements the AI formations, a few flights of mustangs and all the fuel they can carry, and heading off to the “early war area” to flatten the crap out of it will still be ok?
-
Oh, Hblair, I sense an ulterior motive here... ;)
-
You OK hblair?
Don't know if seperate arenas would make for anything like variety. Seems people go where the numbers are (we have several "seperate arenas now that are deserted no matter how bad the MA is porked) but.....
If we did have seperate arenas we should at least be able to toggle the "maps" and click out way onto any field in either arena... How does that sound?
Not a puter guy but wouldn't the less full "areas" have better ah, lag or whatever due to having less planes at that spot? Wouldn't that take the load off the other areas to some extent?
lazs
-
Like most of us, I've read this concept of Laz's a few times.
I see no harm at all in experimenting with it.
There's no denying that as the war progressed fighters were developed with different characteristics to suit percieved needs. Mixing them all together in on big arena is fun. I've had.. and continue to have... a blast in the MA. But it could also be just as fun to match them more closely with their contemporaries.
Anyway... I see no reason why the continually deserted Dueling Arena couldn't be switched to a "Laz's Idea" arena for a few months to evalutate his concept. As long as that placed no load on HTC resources, meaning 'Player designed, player implemented", like the CT. So, you have some studying to do Laz. ;)
We've got a few arenas to spare. The SEA gets heavy use... a few times a week.
The TA gets light use all the time. Well, REAL light.
The CT seems to be somewhat active on weekends and lighter than the TA most weeknights.
The DA? Just about always empty.
What could it hurt?
Plus, Laz... as you so often point out about the CT, it would get some... well, at least one.. of the "perpetual suggesters" out of HTC's hair.
;)
-
zipp... that wouldn't be possible. Nuttz has claimed that it would be simple to make that impossible. 800 mph winds at the border for instance.
Toad... No... I want it in the MA. You would still be able to fight every plane against every plane. All you would have to do to fly a p51 against a F4f or spit one is to simply click on a late war "area" field and then choose the f4f or spit one or.... any of the planes we have now.
My point is that if people like the "challenge" of flying inferior planes against superior ones.... then they will simply do so. If however, as I believe.... they want parity and a viable place to fly early war planes... then they will have it in the early war "area". Unmolested by opportunists in late war rides.
As it is... the MA needs to do something to make early and mid war planes viable... The perk system has shot it's wad... It was a good temporarry fix when the planeset was limited but it's painted itself into a corner. It can't work to make early war planes viable in the MA any way that I can see.
So.... we either come up with a new way of doing things in the MA or pretend that early war planes (and the lower 2/3 or so of the mid war set) don't exist!
Still.... I would welcome any other suggestion that would make all planes viable in the MA.
If nothing else... I see no harm in adding an "early war area" to the current MA.
lazs
-
In absence of a "classic" RPS, the Lazs2's concept gets my vote.
-
Lazs....what would prevent a squad of 51's hunting early war rides in this new early war arena? Just curious.
I still contend that the rps in warbirds yielded negativity due primarily to a $2.00/hr cost. At .50/day, I believe it would be a non-issue with the overwhelming majority and those who hated it would adjust over time.
I love the Mustang....have flown it in three sims for some 12+ years....I would be more than willing to give it up and fly early war rides. Why? Because everyone else would be flying the same period aircraft. I would currently fly early war rides if P-51's, La7's, etc. were not in the same arena with me.
I believe the reality regarding this issue and it's solution are going to be found with a perk system/RPS hybrid. Of course, with the new maps otw, that could certainly change the dynamic as well.
What a crazy place we call Aces High...I like it:)
-
An Early War Area is worth a try.
Can we also change the Range voice channel to an Area channel?
-
What criteria would be used to decide included aircraft?
It seems you will have the same relative problems; just the speed will be lower.
F.
-
rude... nuttz has stated that it would be possible to seperate the areas. an 800 mph wind would keep pee 51's from entering lesser areas.
I don't see what you mean by thinking I would take away your beloved pee 51. in my arena you would be able to fly it 24/7 there would be no restriction on it other than it would only be able to take off from late war fields and fly in the late war area. Certainly you would not like to be able to fly it against early war players who did not want you in their area? As I stated... if an early or mid war plane wanted to take off and fly in the late war "area" then it would be able to do so. You have no problemwith that either I presume?
I agree that voice should be limited to area except for squad channel.
lazs
-
Word, Rude. What I can see is a squad of 51's or 109's *cough*<13th TAS, Assassins>*cough* doing JUST that in order to drive the point home.
Look, I don't care if it's done or isn't. I just don't believe it is the panacea.
-
kieran... it would not be possible for them. I believe that is why they put up so much resitance to the idea.
lazs
-
The range on the range channel isn't all that long, no need to increase it to encompass a whole area.
There would not need to be any coding on HTCs part to implement this. All you need is a terrain with rock walls (similar to wild wednesday) with extreme wind layers above the rock walls. If the maps were big enough, the walls really wouldn't come into play much.
The new strat concept of zones fits into this nicely, by the way.
The only problem is that with the areas and base captures, you can effectively lock out one country from an area. Would the "war" be won when one country is eliminated from an area? or would they be forced to fly solely in the other areas. Example, Bish and Rook capture all Knight fields in the late war areas. Knights can now only use the early and mid war areas or would the "war" be over?
I know Lazs doesn't care about field captures and strat but it is part of the game and it's not going away. Lazs, how does your Area Arena handle the strat variables and the progression of the virtual "war"?
-
Lazs, I have just one question for your area concept. I'm not a whing Napoleon wannabe on channel 2, but I do enjoy taking territory and winning a very rare reset (my squad plays on rooks). How would the strat system work in the "area" arena? Would we get a message like "The Late war war has been won by the bishops?"? Or would a country have to conquer all three areas to win a reset? I'm not against the area idea, but we should take into account more than just dogfights when considering how it could or should be implemented.
-
The only problem is that with the areas and base captures, you can effectively lock out one country from an area. Would the "war" be won when one country is eliminated from an area? or would they be forced to fly solely in the other areas. Example, Bish and Rook capture all Knight fields in the late war areas. Knights can now only use the early and mid war areas or would the "war" be over?
I know Lazs doesn't care about field captures and strat but it is part of the game and it's not going away. Lazs, how does your Area Arena handle the strat variables and the progression of the virtual "war"?
I would like to know this too. Without a doubt it is the biggest sticking point of the "Area-Arena" concept. Also remember the reason we're going to larger maps is to spread the action out a bit more and to make the multi-strat-zone strategic system viable. It's quite possible that with or without one country or the other completely capturing an area, you could regularly find all 400 players in the MA concentrated over an even smaller map area than we have now. So a second MA set up with era-areas would make more sense. Or just go with a second arena with early war planes only. Of course, how do you decide what is "early war" enough to enable in there? Gotta think these things through before it can be seriously considered, you know.
By the way, the arena player limit is not based on how many people are in an area of the map, as I understand it. It has to do with how much the server and bandwidth can handle and keep track of in the arena itself. So a new MA is still the best way to handle the ever increasing numbers. Having said that, I don't think it would be much of a loss to try setting up the DA as a zoned-MA, rather than trying to do this in the MA.
If you go with multiple MA's, then I'd really like to see a clipboard option to bring up the map, roster, and status of the other arenas no matter which one you're in. Right now, you have to back out of an arena and log into the new one to see what is what there. This way, you could see at a glance if you want to log out and log into a different arena. Perhaps make it a tower-only option, if that would be easier to implement.
-
Laz I think your idea merits a test/try.
I do not think it should be given that test in the MA. Just as I know YOU and I BOTH don't think that the "CT concept" should be given a "test" in the MA.
The MA is a known product that the overwhelming majority of HTC's customer base prefers. As you don't favor letting the CT settings replace the MA, I don't favor letting either the CT or YOUR idea replace the MA.
If your idea is good, people will come. If it proves more popular than the MA, it would de facto become the MA. The CT has that same opportunity to compete with, not replace, the MA.
Your idea deserves neither more or less "chance" at becoming the MA by pure popularity than the CT does/did.
That's all I'm saying. Your idea has merit and deserves a try. It does not, IMO, deserve that try as a replacement for the MA but rather as an alternative to the MA. Let it stand or fall on its own popularity.
That's my .02.
-
fyi we (assassins) love to fly early war planes. MA, CT, special arena, whatever..
-
as has been (wrongly) pointed out... I don't care about strat. Fact is, Ido care about strat. but only so far as it changes the dynamics of the air battle. I realize furs need a reason to form. When strat destroys good fighter battles is sucks... When it creates good fights it is great. filds that lay fallow with defenders unable to take off and attackers a long way from capturing them suck... when a couple of leantoos are bombed by one talentless spoiler and then the field is basicaly fallow until it comes back up and everyone just has to go further for a fight.... that sucks.
As to strat.. Not a big deal at all. Each area would have it's own reset. Good or bad it would work. If you cared about resets you might switch areas a lot and if you didn't care you would go where the action was... If you cared about only pee 51's you would stay in one area regardless. Early area would have less fields and weaker fluffs ... Mid would still have the most planes and fields.
for now.... I still think that an early war area in the arena would be a good start.
Toad... Yes... I don't want an allied vs axis thing in the MA. That is a major change and an arena killer. Thing is tho... the arena has changed. Way more planes and way more people. like it or not we have to admit that the MA as it is will not be a viable place for a large percentage of the planes modeled..... The perk sytem was the first admission of the fact that some planes simply do not belong in the same arena as others. HTC went (rightfuly so) to the mid and late war centric.... where the customers are. When late war planes were introduced then the "perk" system was instilled but... it was and is a stopgap... there is no way that it can work for early war planes.
So toad... since none of the old solutions work...we are left with doing something completely new in the arena or simply pretending that early war planes are unimportant outside of scenarios.
Like I said... I would love to see someone else come up with something fair, viable and fun. This is the best idea I can come up with however.
As an alternative... I would suggest 3 arenas but with maps that you could toggle through and the ability to click on any field in any map and take off from there...
but, I would love to hear another idea that isn't the same old tired worn out and done to death stuff. You can't force planesets on people or allied vs axis.... look at WB.
lazs
-
I like Lazs idea, but it honestly doesn't workable to me. Seems to me that most people aren't interested in flying certain planes, as long as they can get easy kills. The Spitfires (because of good turning and great cannon), N1K2 (see above), La7 (best plane in the set), and P-51D (slightly worse overall than the La7, but better visibility) provide the average pilot with a relatively easy way to get kills.
Dividing the arena up would merely cram 95% of the MA population into an area 1/3rd the size of the map, while the remaining 2/3rds go unused. This will (in my opinion) lead to even greater polarization in the plane-set, since it will be either use a good turning plane (i.e. N1K or Spit) or a really really fast plane (La7 or P-51). Anything in the middle won't have enough room to sort of fly around the edges of furballs and bait people (like you can do now, sometimes- of course sometimes it backfires and you end up in a 15 on 1). The early and mid war 'areas' will stay empty (comparitively) because the kills won't come easily enough for people to want to fly there.
Of course, that is just my opinion.
-
urchin.. about half the current arena stays deserted at any one time now. We have only about 5 real viable planes to fly and about 6 more that are so so.
I don't think an early war area would be deserted but it would have to have the fields closer together to make up for the slower speeds. It would be an area of very rapid kills because it would have large furs between fields and the ability to feed the fur.
mid war would have all the viable plane choices we have now with the exption of maybe the lag7 and pee 51D and D9. If anything, the addition of a late war area would increase the usefullness of some of the borderline mid war planes that are not used much now. I actually see LW planes being used more in a mid war area with the lags and 51's gone.
The map wouldn't have to be much larger than it is now. The early and late war would have less fields than the mid. the earlyu would have the closest fields and the late the furthest. The mid could stay retty much the same.
What good are the f4f and spit one and hurri one and p40 and 109e at this point? What is so great about being known as a cowardly opportunist when flying pee51's or D9's and lags? I see more planes being viable not less.
Still waiting for an alternative that has not been proven to be a failure.
lazs
-
800 mph winds at the border for instance.
ROFL what next? floating power-ups?
-
Laz, the CT guys could have made the same argument you made, ie: the MA isn't working and we need a new, better way... and here it is.
Just as I would not want a CT forced on anyone, I do not want your idea forced on anyone.
We have an empty dueling arena. Let's put your idea to the true test and install it there. If you build it.. and it is good... they will come. If not... :)
To reiterate: You don't want the CT forced on anyone and your idea should be treated in a similar fashion. Let it, like the CT stand or fall on its own.
-
lazs, you have my vote
Toad..
I dont think Lazs's idea is *forcing* anything... more like a soft nudge ;). The regular MA could still operate as it would at any other time. The only thing that will be changed (not even changed, only added, SEPARATELY) will be a smaller section of fields for lazs's ideal planeset. As I see it, and lazs has made clear several times, these two distinct areas will not have any interaction whatsoever. If implemented temporarily on the new, larger maps HTC has planned, then the two areas will be possible without limiting or subtracting from the normal MA area. Try it for a tour, hell lets try it for half a tour, or a week even. I dont think that would be too much of a risk. The whole player base surely wont up and quit because of a temporary experiment (unless a mass exodus in dweeby protest arises, HTC has nothing to fear). I say compare it to the little poll screens that HTC sometimes throws at you when ya log on. Do you really think if this is tested in the Dueling Arena that it will be successfull? I doubt it. This type of expirement needs the MA numbers in order to actually be tested correctly. I hope my point got through.. err lazs's point.
cheers
oct
[EDIT: i spelled my name wrong :D]
-
Well said, Toad.
-
OTOH, Octavius, why not try CT settings in the MA? What could it hurt? I'm sure most players won't quit over an experiment... ;)
Just in case you don't know, I don't really mean that. The MA is the breadwinner, and proposals to change it should be considered veeeerrry carefully before implemented.
Coca Cola changed a winning formula because it felt like it could do better than the majority market share it owned. Overnight the "new formula Coke" transformed the company into second place beverage producer. Guess how fast "classic Coke" came back to stores? ;)
-
kieran and toad.... the CT is force... it is a 180 degree change in gameplay in the MA ... it severly limits choice and solves nothing so far as getting all the planes in the game 24/7.
An area arena would not force anyone to do anything and would not punish anyone for any behavior or plane choice. it would be more not less. All planes all the time.... It is simply more choice not less. Unless.....
unless the only way that you can have fun is by being able to kill lesser planes with far superior ones. The "area" arena will limit you chances to do so. Not impossible but limited (early and mid war martyrs could still take off in uberland). Even so.... some lame pitiful soul will try to add a perk system to the "area" concept I would bet.
I am for simply ADDING an early war area to the current arena as a test. How is that "forcing" anything on anyone? How is that hurting anyone at all? I can only see it as offering MORE choice without impacting anyone else. It is the only way that I can see to get early war planes in the arena in a viable manner.
Toad and kieran.. a two part question.. Do you feel that we should have a way to get early war planes in the arena? And... Do you have any idea's of your own for doing so?
lazs
-
Originally posted by lazs2
kieran and toad.... the CT is force... it is a 180 degree change in gameplay in the MA ... it severly limits choice and solves nothing so far as getting all the planes in the game 24/7.
An area arena would not force anyone to do anything and would not punish anyone for any behavior or plane choice. it would be more not less. All planes all the time.... It is simply more choice not less. Unless.....
unless the only way that you can have fun is by being able to kill lesser planes with far superior ones. The "area" arena will limit you chances to do so. Not impossible but limited (early and mid war martyrs could still take off in uberland). Even so.... some lame pitiful soul will try to add a perk system to the "area" concept I would bet.
I am for simply ADDING an early war area to the current arena as a test. How is that "forcing" anything on anyone? How is that hurting anyone at all? I can only see it as offering MORE choice without impacting anyone else. It is the only way that I can see to get early war planes in the arena in a viable manner.
Toad and kieran.. a two part question.. Do you feel that we should have a way to get early war planes in the arena? And... Do you have any idea's of your own for doing so?
lazs
Dude. I'm all about this. Give me area or give me death.
HiTech...
We can have area arena = 1
We cannot have area arena = 0
Thanks!
-
Originally posted by Kieran
OTOH, Octavius, why not try CT settings in the MA? What could it hurt? I'm sure most players won't quit over an experiment... ;)
Just in case you don't know, I don't really mean that. The MA is the breadwinner, and proposals to change it should be considered veeeerrry carefully before implemented.
Coca Cola changed a winning formula because it felt like it could do better than the majority market share it owned. Overnight the "new formula Coke" transformed the company into second place beverage producer. Guess how fast "classic Coke" came back to stores? ;)
Hehe, I know what you mean. I dont think I explained myself correctly :). The MA operations, furballs, missions, whatever goes on in the MA can continue uninterrupted... and even with a larger area than it has now (with the new sized maps)... the smaller area (the experiment) would subtract from the total area of the large new MA and still leave the new MA area with more than we have now. everybody wins :). Maybe lazs could include a mock-map to illustrate this idea?
-
Happy to give it a try, :)
-
This is along the lines of what I'm thinking...
Here we have the original MA.. everyone is happy. Its small and dinky, and somewhat overcrowded...
-
And here we have the "new" MA for testing. Note the overall larger area of the MA Area along WITH the Test Area (i named it the Lazs Area for lack of better name)
(This is very poorly done, I had to race to finish it within 2 minutes :D)
-
...now place a "cricketschirping.wav" file into the background of the "Lazs's Area" and you would have it right. ;)
Heck, I'd give anything a try. If someone makes the map and take the time to set it up I would give it a fair shot.
-
An arena inside of an arena is still a seperate arena. It should be set up as a seperate arena.
Refer to any "field general" post on this bbs and mulitply that sentiment by 2. Its bad enough with one war going on.. and now you want two.
The whole premise of this seems to be a way to either "entice" people into early war rides or cloud the fact that not many want to fly them (in any environment) by hiding the numbers with MA headcount.
People go where they think the fun is. They go to the MA because the numbers say that is more fun. Once they get there... they go where the largest number of contacts are. Do you somehow think that philosophy will change?
Now.. we can get tons of "me too" and "let's give it a try" and whatever other responses here... just like we got for the CT. The MA will show itself to be the "going for the large crowd" audience that it really is.
So then... what do we have HTC put on the back burner while they develope a whole new strat system for a planeset with a whole new set of reduced capabilities (how many early war rides carry ord?) in a whole new arena.
Its not a "let's do it tomorrow" idea. It merrits being weighed against slowing other development down.
AKDejaVu
-
Originally posted by lazs2
..it severly limits choice and solves nothing so far as getting all the planes in the game 24/7.
Laz YOUR idea doesn't severely limit choice, I agree; it merely RESTRICTS choice.
You would restrict some rides to particular areas of an arena. A restriction is a limit, like it or not; a mere matter of degree or semantics. Yet you seem to ignore this aspect of your idea. Check my sig... I'm not much in favor of restricting anything. :)
Secondly, your idea does NOT "get all the planes in the game 24/7." any more than they are RIGHT NOW.
What it does is provide isolated places to fly "early war", "mid war" and "late war" aircraft with little or no overlap of eras. I'd think the same folks who like/fly EW would still fly them, The same folks that now like/fly MW would still fly them and the same folks that now like/fly LateWar (can't say LW here :) ) would still fly them. In short I don't see that this will suddenly change a player's preference. Most of us know what we like.. and fly it in the MA. I'm a 51B and 51D type. I like 'em. I'd still fly 'em.
So, in my view, your proposal merely segments the present population into specific areas. I don't see where it will suddenly get people to switch rides. All planes into the game? They're in there NOW.. and some get used more than others. What would change? They'd be in separate segments and some would STILL get used more than others.
Laz: Toad and kieran.. a two part question.. Do you feel that we should have a way to get early war planes in the arena? And... Do you have any idea's of your own for doing so?
lazs
Part 1. Early war planes ARE in the MA. :) They don't get used much is all. All you're proposing is to segment them into areas that allow them to operate solely against other EW planes (An as yet undertermined group of planes classified as "EW" aircraft, BTW.) You hope to increase their overall usage through this segmentation/classification. It might.. but it might not.
So, basically, no, I don't see the problem as you do. I CAN fly a Spit I any time I like right now. Would I be more likely to fly it in a segmented arena? No. Although I think it is the best looking fighter ever built, I still would prefer either a B or D Mustang. I have been know to take a Hurri or Zeke up now and again though. :)
Synopsis: No, I don't worry about getting EW planes into the MA. They're there already.
Part 2. Nope. This is simply because I don't see the problem as you do and I don't feel your pain.
However, as I've said many times already. There MAY be some merit to your idea. It might be fun and I'd give it a try. I tried the CT too, a few times.
Nonetheless, I see no reason to give your idea any different or preferential treatment. It should be tested in the same way and same manner as the CT.
If those in this thread who are eager for you idea approach HTC in the same manner that the CT guys approached them, I'm sure you could get the Dueling Arena to use for "proof of concept." (ie: "HTC we'll do the work") If it proved wildly popular, with more folks in it than the MA, it would de facto become the MA, would it not?
Please don't tell me that your idea won't work unless the present MA is discontinued and your version substituted. When a few of the CT guys suggested that same line of thinking, you along with myself an others vociferously disagreed. Don't tell me you're trying to have it both ways?
Your idea deserves the same chance given the CT. No more, no less.
Amen. ;)
-
Originally posted by AKDejaVu
The whole premise of this seems to be a way to either "entice" people into early war rides or cloud the fact that not many want to fly them (in any environment) by hiding the numbers with MA headcount.
People go where they think the fun is. They go to the MA because the numbers say that is more fun. Once they get there... they go where the largest number of contacts are. Do you somehow think that philosophy will change?
I'm seeing the whole premise as merely an addition to the MA already. The worst negative effect this could cause would be a slight numbers shift to the new 'area'. The Main Arena as it is right now would not change. Seriously, how would this hurt your ability to enjoy yourself in the Main Arena, DjV? Nobody is compromising anything, nobody is losing anything. This idea only offers another way for customers of this community to enjoy themselves. You want to have some fun in the normal MA? By all means have at it! That will never change. Want to have some fun in a decent, fair, early bird fight without having to exit the MA, enter another arena, organize everything, then finally roll? As an added bonus, think of this as a time saver.
Its just an added feature, another option to the paying customer. Just like lazs said...
I am for simply ADDING an early war area to the current arena as a test. How is that "forcing" anything on anyone? How is that hurting anyone at all? I can only see it as offering MORE choice without impacting anyone else. It is the only way that I can see to get early war planes in the arena in a viable manner.
Toad:
Laz YOUR idea doesn't severely limit choice, I agree; it merely RESTRICTS choice.
You would restrict some rides to particular areas of an arena. A restriction is a limit, like it or not; a mere matter of degree or semantics. Yet you seem to ignore this aspect of your idea. Check my sig... I'm not much in favor of restricting anything.
I certainly would agree with you, if that was the true idea of the area arena... but it isnt the point :) Its just an added option, an added feature, another place to go, fly, kill stuff, blow stuff up, chat, vulch, or what have you... in earlier war planes... and evenly matched... in one arena.
-
toad... my idea.. someone elses. it doesn't matter but something will be done. The current MA has outgrown itself. Not in numbers but in it's ability to offer fair fights.... parity.
I agree that the MAis the bread winner and that it needs to stay attractive to everyone. "area" arena doesn't limit anyones choices it simply adds choices. If no one used the early war portion it would not matter.
The perk system limity your choices and is a stopgap. We have outgrown even that stopgap. We have come to the point where we have to realize that if we want to see early war planes in the MA then there has to be a invornment of some sort of parity for them. I realize that you have no interest in them and that being a 51 pilot you are afraid that no one will play with you given the choice. You fear choice in that it would KEEP PEOPLE FROM BEING FORCED TO PLAY WITH YOU. Not that it would force anyone to do anything. It is you who is the advocate of forcing people to do something not I. If you want to fly a Spit one then you will have more fun in the area arena than you would in the current MA.... I'm not even sure that a spit one is capable of shooting down a P47 or Hog even if it emtied it's entire ammo load into them..
To answer both toad and deja... yep, people go where the action is. They go with the planes they feel the most comfortable in and they get bored and switch too. In the area arena they could do all those things. It really isn't seperate arenas in that you are still part of the community and part of the MA... Just as much as one group is part of the MA even tho it is fighting half a map away from another group. The ability to instantly up from any field on the map remains exactly the same as it is now.
deja.. I have admited that there is much less support for early war planes... that is why it whould be a small area. Oct has it about right.... I maintain tho that some would use it all the time... others would go there when they wanted a furball turn and burn fix and..... if it stayed empty.... so what?
I admit that I don't know how much work would be involved but without doing something all thois "work" on early war plane development is pretty much wasted so far as people who only like the MA are concerned.
What is telling tho is the lack of other ideas.... I really like the "area" concept but... I figured that a lot of guys had come to the same conclussion I had about something needing to be done and with all the bright lads out there I was hoping that someone could come up with a better idea than poor ol slow witted lazs.
so far tho... I haven't even seen any good arguements as to why the "area" arena wouldn't work except for some half hearted attempts to keep from saying "but I want to beat up early planes with my late war planes and your arena won't let me... it takes away my choice to have a far superior plane." Or... "new ideas sound good but they never work". or "the time spent doing it could better be spent developing planes like the stuka that no one will ever use past the first week."
If the "area" arena doesn't work in it's first phase (early war area) then all that happens is not many use it. Nothing changes. No impact. How many arena ideas can say that? How much more risk free can you get?
lazs
-
Why don't Laz and yourself round up a few like-minded individuals and create your dream? I'm sure you can get HTC to loan you the DA for a while... if you are serious and willing to work.
As I said, if you build it.. and it's good.. they will come. It will become the de facto MA.
However, I don't think it is the responsibility of HTC to stop what they are doing and test the hypothesis. It would be the responsibility of the proponents of change.
HTC is working on THEIR business plan and things are going pretty well. That much should be obvious to anyone that's been around here very long. We're on the verge of another update to 1,.09 that will bring us more aircraft and larger terrains as a minimum.
Do I want HTC to stop what they are doing and draw up new maps, strat and whatever to test the "Laz hypothesis"?
Absolutely not. HTC is doing good work.. let them continue.
If the "Laz hypothesis" needs testing, it's the proponents that need to do the test. Who better to know exactly how to achieve this coming "golden age" than the very folks that proselytize for it? If HTC does it and it fails, the failure will be blamed on their poor execution of the "perfect idea."
Nope. Take the ball and run with it. If the concept is so dear to you who want it, you folks will do the best job of implementing it.
Good luck to you guys! I look forward to giving it a try...... in the old DA. ;)
-
Yeah, Laz.. that's it. I'm afraid people won't engage my mighty P-51 B or D if you get your way. What's worse, I'll have no one to boom and zoom at Mach .95. :rolleyes:
Check my kill list for this tour.. I've got about 27 in the B and about 43 in the D. I've really just started in the B due to the TOD, but I like it. Viz sux a bit, little short on firepower and IMO it's a bit worse in a turnfight than the D but I sort of like it.
Top 3 kills? #1 P-51D's. :D #2 P-38L #3 La-7 :D :D :D
Those 3 comprise about 35% of all my kills. This tour I've gotten kills while in a B-26, an F4U-1D, an F6F-5, a P-47D-30, the P51B/D and a TBM-3 I think I spread it around a bit. Certainly my overall list couldn't be considered purely an "uber" plane list. Heck, I have no sorties at all in the La-7! :D
Looks to me like about 5-7% of my total kills are of things that might be considered "early war", though. The rest are things that are "competitive" in the MA depending on if the other pilot chooses to fly them to their strengths. (IE, if some guy wants to do a running disengagement in a Spit V.. well, that's no one's fault but his own.)
Ask around.. see where people find me and my mighty B and D models. It isn't at 20k.. check down where the salt spray dries on the windscreen. Ask if they see me right in the middle of the furballs. :D
What I'm seeing from you is an unwillingness to take on the responsibility of putting your idea to a test. In short, you've made a suggestion that may or may not be good.
But you aren't willing to invest the sweat to find out.
At least with Hblair, Sabre, and the rest of the CT crowd willingly accepted the challenge to implement their own "perfect" ideas.
You willing to do the same?
-
The reason you kill so many La-7’s and very little early war stuff is because no one fly’s early war planes much. You can’t kill what you can’t find. Would you take a Spit I over Germany in 1944? Me either, and the MA is about 1000% more hostile.
If this thread has done nothing, it made me consider why I fly Dora’s and N1K2’s. It’s not to rack up kills at all, it’s just that I hate getting shot down. Well, in a fair fight I don’t think care either way, playing victim to planes that way outclasse you is no fun at all, and I don’t log in to get frustrated, so I fly equal planes just like 95% of the MA to stay alive mostly.
Of all the things in Laz’s idea is, it seems simple in concept and give me a place to fly the other half of the planeset. Not sure where all this sweat would be required.
Plus, I’d like to see Laz “accept the challenge to implement their own “perfect" ideas”. Not only might it work and SLIGHTLY change a MA that is getting a bit stale, but it would be humorous to have people criticize him and get legitimate answers or told to piss up a rope rather than have a big emotional project step down grief stricken retirement thread.
I’m for it, but not in the DA. Why doom it to failure by having a separate arena? Has anyone learned nothing from the CT?
-
Toad, as members of the AH community, are we not allowed to offer suggestions? =] User suggestions/contributions are what make Aces High great, why not continue it?
I’m for it, but not in the DA. Why doom it to failure by having a separate arena? Has anyone learned nothing from the CT?
Exactly Creamo :)
-
Couple of thoughts Creamo.
First, somewhere down the road (IMO) there's going to have to be separate arenas. As player count keeps going up, I think we'll have to split the herd just for playability. Unless these new servers do miracle work.
Second, you feel being in a separate arena automatically and irretrievably dooms a concept? I disagree. I think if someone comes up with a better (better = "more fun") arena concept and implements it instead of just asking for it then such an arena would be highly populated and a success. Even in a separate arena.
I personally don't believe the CT has lower numbers because it is a separate arena, although that is often advanced as the "true" reason for whatever numbers are quoted.
I think the concept, as executed, has limited desirability in the eyes of the majority of the player base. Some guys like it.. a small percentage. Most guys would simply rather play in the MA environment for whatever reason they personally value... ie: "don't like axis/allies, don't like dar changes, don't like icon changes, "too long to find fight", etc., etc., . Basic fact is that most players perceive the MA to be a better place to spend their limited online time.
The Dueling Arena is empty for the same reason. People don't fail to duel because there's no one there.. they fail to duel because they don't want to and would rather do something else. (I guess we could say they're not interested in a "fair fight" eh? That would explain why they're in the MA, would it not? ;) )
And again, I'm not opposed to Laz's hypothesis. It might well be very popular. What I'm opposing is the idea that HTC should drop what they're doing, immediately alter their most popular product and do what Laz tells them to do to create a "better arena".
Let's look at this thread. How many folks do you see in here begging HTC to give this idea a try? Heck, the CT crowd had way more support for their idea when they were lobbying for it on the BBS.
Where are the numerous players expressing a crying need for this change?
I DO think HTC would give Laz and any who support him a chance to create "heaven" in the nearly totally unused dueling arena. I also think if it was a "good" idea, it would be popular.
What I don't see is anyone willing to take on the challenge.. and, for that matter, I don't see all that many supporting the idea.. even though I do support it as a test run in a separate arena.
Where have I said "don't make suggestions?"
Two points:
Remember I support this idea.. the difference between you and I is that I don't support transforming the MA into this idea as a test. I support trying it out in the DA for a few months.
So, Laz made a suggestion, you agreed and I agreed partially with some differences.
So that's me saying "don't make suggestions?" Nah, sorry, not buying that one.
Secondly, with respect to suggestions, I think most posters on this BBS aren't afraid to make suggestions. That's a good thing.
The BAD thing is when HTC doesn't jump right up and say "WTG player XYZ! We'll implement this immediately!" it seems that some people take it personally.
In short, I think HTC keeps an eye on the discussions and ideas here. They may or may not participate in the actual debate but I think they track it overall.
Everybody makes suggestions here sooner or later. The difference is in how people respond to the counterpoints and the response or sometimes lack of same from HTC.
Some people don't seem to handle it well when others don't immediately bow before their brilliance. (Not pointed at anyone at all. Just an overall observation.)
-
Since it doesn't appear HTC is going to use the perk system to make later war planes less common in the MA (I can see them not wanting to upset the Pony-D; 190D9 drivers, etc.), apparently they're looking for another way to make early war planes be more useful in the MA.
I don't see having two seperate arenas in one arena as being a plus myself.
Think of the chat buffer confusion. You have the early war guys talking to each other on the same radio as the late war guys use? What's the practicality in that?
As the game grows will the server be able to handle this load? Would there be a bandwidth issue?
If you're going to seperate early and late war, why wouldn't you do it with seperate arenas? Like an early war and late war main arena.
I do agree that something will eventually have to be done, but I'm pretty skeptical about this area arena thing.
-
Lazs said:
As to strat.. Not a big deal at all. Each area would have it's own reset.
This is a tacit acknowledgement that it wouldn't work without changes to the code. I have a problem with grand sweeping statements like this. It is a big deal. Your talking about a potentially large amount of code change here. You're asking HTC to rewrite code to test an untried concept in their bread-n-butter arena. Asking a bit much, aren't we? Especially since no one seems willing to step up and do the leg work for this. And it won't work without these code changes. Here's why. Let's say someone (HTC or someone in the community) bites the bullet and builds this terrain. Let's say HTC puts it up in the MA without any code changes. In the late-era area one country conquers first one enemy then the other. Suddenly, everyone is forced to fly in the early-era area until HTC can reset the arena.
I've still not heard a definitive explanation of how or if a workable terrain could be built, either. Just build 30,000 foot high walls between the area? And then put 800 mile per hour downdrafts at 30,000 feet to keep people on the reservation? Actually, the vertical wind speed limit is 127 mph, so would this truly prevent someone from getting over the wall? Terrain builders, help me out here. What happens at the edge of the printed map? Does the wall continue to infinity, or does it simply stop? If it can't be carried a fair distance beyond the printed map edge, than it would be easy to go around.
Bottom line, where's the potential payoff here for HTC? I have heard no one complain on this board that they're quiting because they can't fly early war planes against other early war planes. On the other hand there have been those who've posted that because of the CT they've either kept their accounts instead of quiting as they had planned, or have reactivated their account. I'm not saying this to flaunt the CT, but to point out that HTC was willing to grant the CT crowd their "dream" because (a) it cost them nothing to turn it over to them; (b) the community was willing to do the leg work for HTC; and (c) it appeard that it would keep or bring in new players. Cost vs benefit.
Now a separate arena to try this in (one where no one who doesn't want to be affected by the unsolved reset and Strat problem) or even just a separate early-war arena, adminstered by players as the CT is, that might stand a chance of garnering HTC's support.
-
hehe..whats with singling me out? I already feel speshul enough :)
I see where we may have misunderstood each other. Well, I see my fault anyway. I read your post too fast and read it as saying "go make your own game." Oooopsies!
Anyhoo, I agree that would be a neat idea to loan someone the DA for an experiment. But I think I remember HT or Pyro recently saying they're not going to give up their bandwidth for some puny mortal to tinker with an experiment.
I'm sure there would be minor technicalities that would need a small work-around. I certainly wouldnt want HTC to drop everything and direct their enegy for this... not at all. Right now, hell we're just talking about an idea, not the logistics :). I dont have much time to expand any more, so I'll get going and shut up for the time being.
cheers
-
Toad, it's eerie how alike we sound in two different forums. I agree with you 100%.
-
Hey this is easy, Lasz, you want an area arena? well, download the Terrain Editor, use the TE forum for help, and build the terrain yourself. then, when ya got it done, put it in for submission into the CT terrain rotation. that would give it a test run, then you could submit it to HTC for review/approval for the MA. Viola, your idea has been implemented, tested, reviewed by HTC, and you can feel a sense of accomplishment that you tried your idea. What's the worst thing they can do? Say no? then what have you lost?
Hamish
-
A darn good question..
How do we bring the whole planeset into play? How do YOU feel
when u strap on the goggles and flick back the scarf in the
Spit 1, only to get slobbered by a fricken Niki and his la7 bud.
Daring? Courageous? Angry? Well I feel dumb.
Back to my Me109G-10.
Any attempt at "change" will be met with a roar of
"I pay $15, and if I dont get to fly my plane, I will cancel!!!"
An arena within an arena? very little difference
than 2 separate arena's. If any at all. In fact, 2clicks of the
mouse is the difference. Change AH core product for 2 clicks??
Very risky.
I feel, if this question is to be answered, HTC will have to
answer it. They will have to 'force' it on us and 'cram' it down
our throats.
Rotating planesets?
Scenario in the MA?
CT Format?
Perk system improvemnt?
Maybe certain aribases only offer certain planes?
Or as the hangars are destroyed, the selection of planes
dwindles?
A darn good question indeed
:confused:
-
hammish... It would be a lousy idea in the CT with the constrictions there
toad... seperate arenas don't work....yet.... here you are after all these years falling back on that lame old concept that has been proven a player base killer over and over. I don't think an idea like an area arena could work in a seperate arena.
HTC will do something eventually. who knows what it will be? I didn't like the perk system but because it works so poorly I believe it is a resounding success. But.... it is outdated allready unless it is implemented in smaller seperate arenas.
Seperate arena's..... they kill the sense of community. Who even cares what is going on in the CT for example or.... how many responses do threads about last nights scenario or WW get? No one cares. The MA guys don't feel a part of any of it. Pretend otherwise at your peril.
Try my arena in the DA or whatever?? Not me. I just come up with the ideas and piss on other peoples.. If someone tried it in another arena I would most likely not go there. Why??? well gee.... no body would be there. My squad mates wouldn't be there. Seperate arenas don't work or work very poorly.
The only way seperate arena idea that will work is if they are like my "area" arena... you can toggle through the maps and see whart is happening and click on any field in any arena.
whitehawk... the differnce is huge. leaving one arena and going into another just to see if something might possibly be happening? That doesn't happen and is impractical in any case it takes way more time and effort than it is worth. By the time you get the feel of the arena you just clicked into. It takes quite a while to realize you have just wasted your time and... left all your squadmates behind.
toad... don't be so sensitive. I don't care what you kill but I don't think you should be able to fly your 51B against Spit ones and P40's.
As for the buffer... 400 people is 400 people... A43 is still A43 no confussion there.
sabre... are you saying that a seperate area with a seperate reset is that difficult to do?
Hey.... I ain't gonna do it. I'm far too lazy and lack the skills. It is simply an idea. I feel that I have not seen any objection to it that was even sensible.
In WB i was told that if I didn't like the view system I should design my own... In AH I was told if I didn't think the planes turned well enough in 1.03 then I should design my own game. That ain't gonna happen. Like most guys I simply have an idea from time to time. When a sim comes out that has the most features that I like or the best (for me) gameplay I vote with my feet.
lazs
-
Look at the "problem" with numbers with the current 3 team setup. Now.. take 400 and divide it by 6.
Thinning out the MA is not a good idea.
AKDejaVu
-
I agree with you to a point laz. There is a herd mentality. People are less likely to choose a different arena than they are accustom to. That is a big problem a second arena has. I'd propose doing something different than just throwing them all in the MA though.
I'd like to see something different when you click "online". Instead of the clipboard coming up with the arena names/# in arena/ ping times, I think it'd be cool if you were put into an old looking WWII looking "Ready Room" with a chalkboard or something on the wall listing the arenas with clickable names that tell ya what each arenas about, like: Main arena Early War, Main Arena Late War, Combat Theater, Dueling Arena, Special Events Arena, etc. If there was a WW event about to run, have the SEA link blinking or something to draw your attention, maybe beside it have "Wild Wednesday event begins at 09:00 tonight", or possibly a recorded 15 second message that tells ya on certain days when an event starts. I think we need a more attractive way into the arenas. You could click on each arena and you go to the tower in the selected arena. I'd like to see some way around listing the population in each arena in the same place you make your choice to go in the arena.
Just some thoughts off the top of my head.
-
Well, I guess we'll just see what HTC comes up with then. ;)
-
sabre... are you saying that a seperate area with a seperate reset is that difficult to do?
Yes, I’m saying it is likely a very significant effort to (a) decide exactly how it would work, (b) code it up, (c) test-debug-test, (d) document it, and (e) put it into production. All to test whether it would indeed result in more early war planes being used in the MA and, more importantly, if it would positively affect HTC net revenue. Production of the map alone could take a hundred man-hours, assuming no changes are needed to the TE to implement an impervious inter-area barrier. So yeah, my gut feel is that it is more involved than you think. People tend to think software is cheap…it’s not. I just don’t think you’ve thought it through or considered all the ramifications to the total game.
A test run of a separate arena for early-war is the best way to judge interest. If you run it in there, with all the same settings/strat as the MA, you will collect data on whether it’s truly important to people. Those that really want to fly early war rides will go there, just like those that really want historical match ups fly in the CT. If you can get even 10% of the MA numbers at peak times (something the CT does regularly) than you’ve got a case for HTC expending effort to somehow integrate early war into the MA somehow.
Now I do support the idea of being able to look at the status of an arena while in any other arena, and a button to transport you directly from one to the other would be a nice convenience. Would this accomplish the goal you’re seeking after? This also would involve a lot of programming, but is a more elegant engineering solution then your idea of subdividing the MA, in my opinion. It’s almost always easier to build a bridge between two islands than to build a new island. And it preserves the unique characteristics of each of those islands.
-
hblair... no.. I don't think so. I think that we need to know how many people are in each arena before we blunder into it or people will log off in disgust when they click into a deserted (or nearly so) arena. There were six people in CT when I siggned on last nite prime time. I woulda been pissed if I blundered into that ghost town. the ability to change arenas byu clicking on some sort of map/toggle feature would be great tho... seems I've said this many times tho.
sabre... nothing to decide. It would work exactly like the rest of the MA but with fewer fields. Let's not complicate things. Think MA... think simple.
I am curious as to your thinking on early war planes tho... You say that we need to try a seperate arena for them for..... what? to see if people will fly early war planes??? seems the CT has the highest numbers during early war periods so the CT has allready done that research. Also... I don't know how many times i have to say it or, worse yet, how many times it has to be proven.... Seperate arenas don't work or.... at best, work badly. Seperate arenas would prove nothing except that fact and that has been proven over and over allready.
Again... as simply as possible.... an early war area in the arena would not harm anyone but it would offer a viable place for early war planes. If it were little used it would be no big deal. It could be ignored and it would not matter to anyone. All the advantages of a seperate arena with none of the disadvantages.
deja... how do you figure? We don't use half thed map now it seems. Those who want bigger maps really only want the fields farther apart. I don't think things would change too much. I think it likely tho that the early war area would get crowded from time to time. As a bonus.... the early war closer field area would be a great place for those who have to play at non peak times.... a more compact "arena" within the arena.
lazs
-
Oh.... three things I believe... the idea won't work as a seperate arena.... I won't ever put an ounce of effort into making it happen and..... HTC will do whatever they want.
I am simply making a suggestion since there seems to be a total lack of ideas on getting early war planes in the MA. For all I know HTC has allready developed an idea that is very simular or 180 apart from my idea. They still have the best game in town. I will stick with em till somebody comes up with something better.
lazs
-
How about a compromise.
The problem, aluded to by laz, is that when you go to an arena you 'leave' the others.. I.E. no communication with squaddies, etc.
How about keeping the seperate arenas but making communicaiton between them available?
I.E. another channel or some way of 'monitoring' and/or staying in touch with those that aren't in your currently chosen arena.
-
deja... how do you figure? We don't use half thed map now it seems. deja... how do you figure? We don't use half thed map now it seems.
The fronts are overcrowded. The only way to increase the size of the fronts is to increase the size of the maps. That's what most people want... a way to actually sneak into enemy territory... especially now that NOE flying doesn't show on dar. Creating a seperate arena inside of an arena does nothing to help this. It actually hurts that situation.I think it likely tho that the early war area would get crowded from time to time.
I think you're talking out of your ass.As a bonus.... the early war closer field area would be a great place for those who have to play at non peak times.... a more compact "arena" within the arena.
And you think this is a perk? God forbid they don't have your aircraft in there... and God forbid they are actually choosing the late war portion to play in instead when you really wanted to fight someone in early war rides. The problem is on off-peak times... you look at the numbers in the MA.. you join up... then you discover nobody is flying in the arena you wanted to fly in. Pretty much the same that would happen if it were a seperate arena... only skipping the extra step.
Of course.. some would like this because it might "force" other people into early war rides in off-peak hours. And some might also like to turn the MA into a CT just to show everyone how great the CT is.
AKDejaVu
-
wlfgng that is the "alternative" I suggested. make it so you can toggle through the maps. you can then click on any field in any map in any arena and be there or.... simply look at the map and see what is going on there. Take some of the "seperate" out of seperate arenas.
lazs
-
quick easy answer
USE THE HTH
-
deja... I submit that you are talking out of your ass... The fronts are not crowded to a lot of guys but only that..... they are more crowded than the DESERTED back fields. I'll give you that... so with an area arena you might have a few less deserted fields... the "crowded" fields wouldn't be any more or less crowded. The "arena too small" cherry pickers are not complaining about a too small area but that the fields are too close together for them to find many targets assleep at the switch and far from home so that they can B & Z em to death. They believe that he who can tolerate the most boredom is the most skilled. Any map that makes them happy will kill the game.
also..Are you saying tho that the early war area would never get crowded? I would imagine with all the neato new early war planes that you may be (cough) "mistaken" or.... talking out of your ass.
Force people to fly early war area in off peak times? I don't know.. it seems that off peak numbers force people to fly from limited fields as it is. if they didn't want to fly early war then it would affect no one. If one or two die hard early war fans flew in there it would still have minimal effect...
Seriously... are you saying that early war planes are not fun and that no one is interested in them? That we should just ignore em in the MA? Surely you aren't saying that they have a viable place in the current MA?
lazs
-
...seems the CT has the highest numbers during early war periods so the CT has allready done that research.
One data point does not a statistic make. It is unknown whether it was just the early war planes alone that made the BoB CT set up so popular, or if the historical significance of the set up was a big factor as well. That is to say, the historical draw of flying these early war planes against their traditional adversaries.
As far as making it "work exactly like the rest of the MA" that's going to be a problem with the new strat system. Read up on it if you want to know why. It would take too long to list the potential problems here. The short answer is, you'ld have to have a completely separate strat system for the early war area, or else face some nasty, arena killing situations. This would make for big code changes. No matter how often you insist it's easy, that won't make it so. You've also side-stepped the issue of possible challanges of building the terrain itself, that is, whether it could be build without changes to the TE or the server code to support this.
Which leads me back to the last paragraph of my preceeding post. As you have pointed out yourself, it would be a very useful feature to at least be able to check the map and status of other arenas from any other arena. This would then eliminate your biggest argument against having a completely separate early-war arena. I'd rather have HTC expend the resources to do this, than to try to shoe-horn your square-peg of an idea into our round hole of an MA :D.
-
Lazs, I know what you meant.
I meant something different... I E different arenas
totally seperate.. differnt AC, icons, settings (if desired)
but with the ability to 'look at' and 'talk with' other arenas.
At least be able to see how many are logged in, etc.
WB had that thing where you can see who is in an arena before you log in.. kinda liked that too. (don't think they have it anymore)
And sorry.. I know you prolly knew what I 'meant' but tried to hijack me to 'your side' ;:cool:
-
Sabre, I said that It "probably" could be made to keep others out. I never said it was 100% guaranteed Nor anywhere did i say it would look Good.
IMO, I "think" an arena could be made within an arena.
IMO, I think this would look like toejam! the walls would block the sky.
IMO, the code WOULD have to be changed to accomodate the strats ( 3 sides, within 3sides multiplied by the MA and 3 different war sets) within the map.
IMO, just the building of this map would take resourses and time NOBODY is willing to put forth, on an Idea it may or may not ever be seen.
As another arena, maybe, but that would negate the whole object of laz's Idea.
I only posted this as someone who has some experience with the TE, not as someone who has political or emotional ties to this thread.
NUTTZ
-
It seems thereis a bit of interest in restricted planesets, the
argument seems to be how to do this. tinkering with the
MA is prolly not gonna happen.
So maybe the CT needs some TLC from HTC.
Some pre 'war' advertising ie. dates, planesets, battle settings.
So we can talk to squadies about who may be interested,
what side we will fly for and maybe establish a squad in
the CT proir to the 'battle'.
I have maintained before, organizing a population move is
the biggest challenge here....
Need to be able to download the terrain beforehand. (the
20 minute download is a big turnoff when im in the CT mood)
Perk point carryover from CT to MA.
I know, buffers are gonna try to rack up ez perks to bring to
MA. I think that low buffs will attract low fitrs.
Take time to make terrain and let advertising work.
I dont think ive ever been aware of what was going on in
CT until I downloaded the terrain and read the paragraph
CT should be veiwed as a theatre to apply skills learned in
the MA. A 'Special' event.
-
wlfgang... no... I took it a step further than that. I don't care "who" is in the arena so much as "what" is in the arena. I want to see the map. I want to toggle between maps and say.... "eeew... nice little fight in the early war arena at a5" and then simply click on that field and be there. I would want all the maps to give all the info that they do now.
Basically... you could take off from any field in any arena at any time so lonmg as it was the same "country" and you chose a plane that was available in that arena.
squad voice would work across the arenas just as RW did. You would not be "isolated" if you chose to try a hop from a field in an unpopular arena. You would not have to jump through hoops or go in blind to change arenas.
Like I said... either an 'area' arena or.... seperate arena's with maps that you can toggle with simple click access to your countries fields in all the arenas. I like area better but I like both ideas better than all the ideas that I have heard here which all boil down to..... don't do anything except maybe fire up another arena to sit around vacant.
lazs
-
I say bring a Rolling Plane Set into AH now... I would love too fly the 109 Emil... but with La7, P51, Fw190 D, Spit IX, Bf109G-10 and N1K2 filling the whole arena... IT IS NOT ANY FUN. I would like too battle my 109F vs Spit Vb and P40E. I mean we fly for fun and because we like flight sims.. If the planeset rolled from 1939-45/46 I would have too adapt like a real figther pilot in ww2. But right now over 50% of the planes are collecting dust.. and that is a shame. Ok a rps could not be implemented before some more planes is introdused.. but it cant get any worse than the MA is now... 1944/45 is boring in the long run.
-
well in that case Laz.. you were prolly right in the beginning...
HTC is gonna do what they want...
and it prolly won't be seperate 'areas' in the MA.
MA works fine now IMO
I do kinda like the idea of being able to 'look' or somehow communicate with other arenas tho. depends on my mood.
and yeah.. I have moods where I wanna' do the furball thing..
but not always. I think most people fall in this category.