Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: CavemanJ on April 20, 2002, 10:23:13 AM
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This morning we were once again treated to the massive dweebery of the Bishits as they kept carrier groups hidden. One from nitwits and one from us. Til DrDea gave the locations of both on channel 1 (
Dea).
With the 512x512 maps coming this could become a real headache. Specially trying to find a lone task group in 262,144sq miles.
Need a way for the owners of the port to be able to locate thier missing ships. In the course of the war the task groups can end up anywhere. For example, TG31 shelling P63 on the ND isles map while P32 was captured. Then it's run around and find the boats and hope you can get to it while noone is really paying attention and sink it.
Some folks think a carrier should scuttle itself 2hours or so after the port changes hands. That would deffinately solve the problem, but it's too extreme I think.
What about after X hours (2 sounds good to me :D ) the fleet is visible on the map to the country that owns the port, even if another country owns the task group. That would solve the hidden fleet problem and still make the folks who captured the port go kill the boat to get it back. And the folks with the boat know they have 2 (or X ) hours to get the port back before the fleet location is revealed to the new owners of the port.
Anywho, just another idea from the peanut gallery
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Good idea, very bad and un-sportsly to hide it.
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Originally posted by CavemanJ
What about after X hours (2 sounds good to me :D ) the fleet is visible on the map to the country that owns the port, even if another country owns the task group. That would solve the hidden fleet problem and still make the folks who captured the port go kill the boat to get it back. And the folks with the boat know they have 2 (or X ) hours to get the port back before the fleet location is revealed to the new owners of the port.
Anywho, just another idea from the peanut gallery
Sounds good to me. Although I don't hide the CV or agree with it, it is a perfectly legitimate tactic considering this is supposed to be a strategic flight sim! ;)
It's never really bothered me that much in all honesty but what Caveman J has mentioned seems fair enough. :)
Perhaps when we get the Catalina we could use it as a recon plane to locate the CV. This could work by the map indicating several sectors where the CV is located. The Catalina could then up for a visual search, and upon confirmed sighting a flare could be deployed which would them illuminate the CV on the map. I did suggest this idea for hunting U-Boats.... perhaps some use for recon planes then! :)
Regards
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I was involved in such an incident today, I broadcast the position that the Bishops were hiding a rook CV on global despite the threats from the guys hiding the CV.
Personally I think its a dweebish tactic that exploits a loophole in Aces High gameplay and is far from being a strategic tactic. If gaming the game is going to start with hiding the CV where does it stop? If you're not going to use that CV or you don't want to bother defending it then you should'nt have it, IMHO its childish to hide the CV.
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Good idea Cavester!
eskimo
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Sorry to take away your Insta-Vulch Ack Machine. Not! Protect it next time, don't park it next to the nearest base, and if you loose it get it back during the 3+ hours it takes to move it. Don't come crying here because someone bigger, meaner & better took your toy away. Go have fun circling, vulching a base in your fighter while another team gets the reset.
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Seems to me the problem is with the game setting. The port should spawn a new fleet as soon as it is 100% operational again after it changes hands *regardless* of whether the old fleet has been sunk.
BTW - can someone translate Virage's post into English for me?
- Seagoon
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well basically he said "fck u".
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The problem with spawning a new fleet every time the port is captured is you can end up with quite a few fleets hidden, though I DO like the idea.
What if the ports will spawn one fleet for each country; if Knights take a bish port, then it will spawn a fleet for the knights. The Bish keep their fleet until it's sunk. If the Bish then take the port BACK they don't get a new fleet until the old one gets killed.
That keeps the theoretical limit to three fleets per port, with two of them living on borrowed time.
This also eliminates the advantage of hiding a fleet; you're not hurting the guys who overran your port, and a cowering fleet is the same as no fleet at all. On the other hand, you can keep it away from shore and use it as an airfield, not entirely unlike carrier tactics in the early 1940s...pity bar dar and dot dar will give it's rough position away.
Aw, well. Nothing's perfect :)
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"Sorry to take away your Insta-Vulch Ack Machine. Not! Protect it next time, don't park it next to the nearest base, and if you loose it get it back during the 3+ hours it takes to move it. Don't come crying here because someone bigger, meaner & better took your toy away. Go have fun circling, vulching a base in your fighter while another team gets the reset."
LOL. Well said.
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I don't know, watching Cave lose it in a rant reminiscent of the old days on channel one has prompted me to change my opinion on hiding the fleets to the positive.
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Hmm earlier I demonstrated to rooks what happens if you start playing "hide'n'seek" with carriers. Guess next stop will be bishitsville :D
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btw I like Puck's idea.
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What if the ports will spawn one fleet for each country; if Knights take a bish port, then it will spawn a fleet for the knights. The Bish keep their fleet until it's sunk. If the Bish then take the port BACK they don't get a new fleet until the old one gets killed.
I like this, though I think that a fleet, once it has left port, should be totally autonomous. That is, it should not matter if the port is taken.
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How about if ya capture a knight port the fleet once also captured is ALWAYS visible to knights on the map +)
representing stowaways +)
SKurj
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There are 2 options they way I see it and both are related to gaming, not real life as possession of the port NEVER gave an an enemy a cv just by capturing it.
1. The port capture gives the losing country 15 to 20 minutes of fleet possession and then it automatically sinks. The new fleet reverts to the ports new owner, end of discussion.
2. The "old" port owner gets to keep the fleet they have until it sinks. The new port owner gets a nrewly spawned fleet upon port capture. This means at MOST one extra fleet per port to program for and the hider can play their fleet and the new port owners get the reward of capturing the port.
Result of this type of "compromise" is less "gamesmanship" and more combat play. This also makes port defense a more critical part of the tactical / strategic game play and might even be considered "immersive". A second feature of these solutions is to stop the whining about it, and the ability of a "score hound" being able to dominate the fleet action entirely.
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Perk the CV's!
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There ya go. How many perks for a 68 class CVBG?
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Why not simply allow the "new" owners of the port to spawn a new CV after a period of time. The "other" CV would have no support persay so it would be a one shot deal...it gets sunk you lose it.
xBAT
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Why not simply cut out the puny lil dweeblike action of hiding fleets in the first place?
Hmm what a concept. Do I mean like NOT hiding the damn thing because if it's hidden it isn't any good to anyone anyway? And, by not hiding it, I won't be showing my arse as a contemptible lil snot who can't stand to lose so will do something childish?
Yeah, I guess that's what I mean...what a concept.
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You want the game to give back the CV to team that lost it, because they're to lazy to go get it?
You could have bombed it before it got to far away anyways. The thing only moves at, what... one sector every hour?
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Change who can see the fleets. Make it so the country that owns the fleet can see it, and the country that owns the corresponding port can see it. If they are the same country, then no problem, the fleet is hidden. If one country owns the fleet and another the port then the fleet isn't that hidden and the port owner can see it also and choose to come and try and get it back.
Basically:
- The person who owns the fleet will continue to control it until it is sunk.
- You can hide it all you want, but if you don't control the corresponding port then you know the enemy that does knows where the CV is and will most likely come to get it back.
- You don't give it back to the enemy just because they captured the almost defenseless port, you make them come and get it back.
-Soda
The Assassins.
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No leave it the way it is....If som1 is hiding ..they arent using it...it takes hours to get those cv's to an area to to dmage if som1 is hiding it.....IF YOU REALLY WANT IT>>>SEND OUT YOUR RECON PLANES....and please PBY's... i hope HTC spends its time on more useful and entertaing planes or GV's.....OK...how about a feisler storch....lolol LMFAo..some of these things i read....
U - boat wolf packs...lol talk about a long ride....but I know some of us dont have maids to do house work so long rides somtimes work well....lolo
BiGB>>>>....In my dreams im a porno star in a heavily armored fighter:)
BGBMAW
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BiGB>>>>....In my dreams im a porno star in a heavily armored fighter
I can see it now, Hedgehog in a Hog....
-Soda
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I was thinkn somthen about a furball
lolo
:D
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Easy solution to CV hiding: add the ability for all players (rookies, nites and bish) to see who is currently controlling each team's CVs. By displaying the names, everyone will know who is controlling the hidden CV. I'm sure the radio and message boards will discourage that player from doing that again.
I play for the bish, but I would much prefer to use and loose a CV than hide it. Problem is you can't always get it away from the person (capt. dweeber) who's controlling it.
That said, please not more magical radar, sonar, satillite views, GPS navigation, laser guidance systems, laser range finders......
If someone hide a CV, send up a couple 234's to find it..without bombs its a great recon plane.
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I f you guys saw my name...and i was haiding CV.. my counrty men would laugh at you guys sayin BGB,,,give us our cv backk....who cares what anohter country thinks...It is war..we can hide it if we want...ya i kno wwe cant use it ..but you cant either,,thats the trade off......But yes ARADo is made for searchn ....
But the showing CV captains name wont do crap....
BiGB..............BGBMAW
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If your a bish, not all your country men would be laughing, some would be pissed that you're wasting an asset that is real useful in capturing fields. Of course if your a rookie or nite, I can understand your statement. :) Of course if your real intention is to load the CV with plastic judy dolls as a Love Boat for off duty furballers, you might gain some real support for this strategy.
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loll
ship full of plastic judy dolls..lolo
BGBMAW:D
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>>Easy solution to CV hiding: <<
...... DON'T DO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE! :rolleyes:
it's dweebish. Hell, children play better than that most times.
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In my view it frequently takes considerable effort to take, and extract a cv away from a port captured by the enemy. I don't in any way see that as gaming the game, it's a perfectly legitimate tactic for denying use of it to the enemy.
It's very noticeable that the players who give out the position of "hidden" cv's, or who steer them deleiberatly into trouble, are frequently not the people involved in previously capturing the port or the cv, or defending it as it is extracted. Accordingly, I personally regard such behaviour as beneath contempt, anbd frankly prefer they simply changed sides and stayed so.
I don't mind at all having to hunt for, and kill a hidden cv. I've done it many times, with a few squad mates, and the satisfaction in doing so without recourse to cheating is great.
It seems to me that AH players are increasingly intolerant of anything that doesn't give them instant gratification, that you have lost sight of the fun to be had from effective teamwork, especially of the fleet hunt variety, where a lot of second guessing and deep recce flying is required.
What I find especially repugant these days in AH, and especially on these boards, is the lack of at least an attempt, to see the other players point of view.
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Originally posted by Fidd
It's very noticeable that the players who give out the position of "hidden" cv's, or who steer them deleiberatly into trouble, are frequently not the people involved in previously capturing the port or the cv, or defending it as it is extracted. Accordingly, I personally regard such behaviour as beneath contempt, anbd frankly prefer they simply changed sides and stayed so.
[/B]
I've fought hard to capture a port and the task group that goes with it, then had to log shortly after getting the fleet. Log back in 5-6 hours later and see we've lost the port and some dorkfish has the fleet hidden in a corner. If my rank is high enough I'll put'er to use somewhere, attacking a base (like the port for instance). If my rank isn't high enough to do that I'll pass the group's location on to the appropiate people.
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I'm sure people will draw their own conclusions as to the likely veracity of this, coming as it does from someone who is happy to degrade his own teams assets, merely to curry favour.
Originally posted by CavemanJ
I've fought hard to capture a port and the task group that goes with it, then had to log shortly after getting the fleet. Log back in 5-6 hours later and see we've lost the port and some dorkfish has the fleet hidden in a corner. If my rank is high enough I'll put'er to use somewhere, attacking a base (like the port for instance). If my rank isn't high enough to do that I'll pass the group's location on to the appropiate people.
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Are you really that dumb?
A task group is an offensive weapon. It does no good sitting over 100miles from the action.
I don't play the hide the cv game. If it won't be used in an offensive role than I'll tell someone in the other country where it is. There are folks in all 3 countries that do the exact same.
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I have heard caveman's rants on the subject.
Like somebody said earlier I think, 'beneath contempt'.
Within the game parameters, it's a legitimate tactic. That you cannot see the relative advantage of prolonged, denied use to the enemy demonstrates your absence of situational awareness, not to mention ignorance of strategic advantage.
Your belligerent remarks (here and on Ch 1) and betrayal of your own forces demonstrate other things, but that is a different topic.
mullah
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Originally posted by CavemanJ
I've fought hard to capture a port and the task group that goes with it, then had to log shortly after getting the fleet. Log back in 5-6 hours later and see we've lost the port and some dorkfish has the fleet hidden in a corner. If my rank is high enough I'll put'er to use somewhere, attacking a base (like the port for instance). If my rank isn't high enough to do that I'll pass the group's location on to the appropiate people.
Billy Doolittle proved airpower will sink a battleship by dive-bombing it with a 2k bomb. Seems like the P47 is one of the most effective weapons to use against ships.
Also, it seems battleship pounding of nme ground positions was mostly ineffective in killing the defending troops during WWII. So, historically, what's going on in the game is correct.
Think how bad it must have been in real life Caveman. Though I do agree with you about the CV dilema.
Les
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leslie...
for your edification... that would be Billy Mitchell who proved planes could sink ships.
James Doolittle led the raid on Tokoyo flying B-25s which were named after Billy Mithcell.
To Cavemanj and all the CV whiners,
Hiding the enemy CV is a valid game tatic.
What's the big deal? CVs are easy to find and kill. Hop into a 262 and fly around the map until you find it.
Hey do some Recon - there's a novel idea.
Would you rather have satellite pictures and an Exocet missile to take it out - you lamer!
CVs move so slow as it is, if a county is able to move the CV away and hide it so that the enemy looses track of it - tough luck!
The moment that CV is used for any kind of offensive action, it will probably get sunk. No big deal.
Go cry me a river you whiner, and while you're at it change countries - I don't want you in mine.
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>>Within the game parameters, it's a legitimate tactic. <<
Read: Gaming the game
>>That you cannot see the relative advantage of prolonged, denied use to the enemy demonstrates your absence of situational awareness, not to mention ignorance of strategic advantage. <<
Sounds like a great big juicy rationalization to me.
The circumstance under which this kind of thing occurs is when the side that does it is losing. It is a kind of scorched earth policy which speaks loudly of an action used by dweebs or, an action by a spoiled child. Pretty pathetic IMO, which has been shared by many.
Fight honorably, and if you are to die (read= lose) then do so honorably. Instead you would engage in a reprehensible act and call it strategy. Pfft!
You and those like you will do as you will but, please don't try and make it out to be anything more than it is; have a little self respect. :cool:
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Fight honorably, and if you are to die (read= lose) then do so honorably. Instead you would engage in a reprehensible act and call it strategy. Pfft!
You and those like you will do as you will but, please don't try and make it out to be anything more than it is; have a little self respect.
Read: Some folks forget the game is a game. :rolleyes:
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>>Read: Some folks forget the game is a game. <<
El wrongo!:D
When I log on it is to play a game. When I play a game, I like to win. I get as much enjoyment from playing well than just playing. I don't get yuks by trying to find a CV cuz some numnuts decided to hide the thing so noone else can use it:p
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I'll tell its posistion. Done it many times and will continue doing it.
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lol weazel if you were a knight and told nme where to find the cv that they took from us in the first place...i would first virtually kik ur ass..if i could......i would then just keep flying since i cannot do anything to you...well u would be on the "permanant NO CHECK SIX List".....lolollol
AGAIN ITS STRATEGY...SO WHEN WE TOOK Sub bases like Brest back in France..Did we get the Subs automatically..???lolol..no u get off your tulips fly and find them..if you really thot it was worth it.......
BGBMAW
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>>AGAIN ITS STRATEGY...SO WHEN WE TOOK Sub bases like Brest back in France..Did we get the Subs automatically..???<<
Pfft! And your example doesn't hold water. The point of the action you refer to was to destroy the sub bases so the subs wouldn't operate from there. This thread is about Dweebs hiding Task Groups. Some of you call it strategy, others of us call it dweebery.
But I can see there is a different sense of strategy and tactics by some of you. I stick to the example I used earlier; they are tactics used by a person who is losing and doesn't want to admit it. The child who would take the ball in the middle of a game so noone else can use it:rolleyes:
Moot point though, you guys will continue to do it, and profess to call it something it's not, and I and others will continue to ridicule the move as a senseless acty of dweebery:cool:
Play on....
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The child who would take the ball in the middle of a game so noone else can use it
Ball Control.
Protect the Ball.
No Turnovers.
Ever hear of these statements? Can you imagine how they apply to this game?
The kid that takes his ball and goes home is the same kid that lost it.
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Guess I should have asked this earlier, but what is hiding the CV? Taking it off the map? I would think as long as the CV is on the map, it's a legit play. I.e., how would I hide a CV if I wanted to? I'm not sure how this works. Don't nme CVs respawn after a port is taken and the nme CV sunk? I've seen a few times where the captured CV didn't respawn on the map, and was wondering where it was.
Les
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Originally posted by Leslie
Guess I should have asked this earlier, but what is hiding the CV? Taking it off the map? I would think as long as the CV is on the map, it's a legit play. I.e., how would I hide a CV if I wanted to? I'm not sure how this works. Don't nme CVs respawn after a port is taken and the nme CV sunk? I've seen a few times where the captured CV didn't respawn on the map, and was wondering where it was.
Les
Hiding the task group is usually putting it somewhere so far out of the way that the side that owns the port for that task group won't bother looking for it.
Like, on the isles map: Sailing TG41 to 15.6 sector (southeastern edge of the map) and leaving it doing circles so noone can use it.
I'm getting a real laugh at the people who are trying to say this is a valid tactic. Hiding the task group is nothing more than an effort to piss people off and ruin thier fun. The whole point for the people who hide fleets is to try and make up for thier miniscule phallic stature by being in control and directly affecting others.
I suppose, for people like Fariz, it's also a diversion from thier 8hr/day weeks on AH (how do ya think he got to be ranked in the top 5 anyway?)
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>>Ever hear of these statements? Can you imagine how they apply to this game? <<
Uh yes, I think I have, and uh yeah I, from my perspective I know exactly how they apply. Further, the control you speak of should be applied BEFORE you lose, not AFTERwards ;)
>>The kid that takes his ball and goes home is the same kid that lost it.<<
BINGO! He can be taught!:D
If you lost the advantage in the first place, play it out and avoid making it worse by an act of dweebery. If you screwed up in the first place, to a point where you can't get it back, resolve to do it better the next time. Don't break the backboard or hide the balls so the game can't be completed, or even worse; so that the game can't be played with the same quality it started out with; thats annoying as hell, and is the kinda watermelon that starts fights. And worse than winning or losing; the effect is to create a lousy attitude and environment among the players (as can be seen in this thread).
Strategy? Or dweeblike desperation?:cool: