Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Jochen on April 18, 2001, 04:59:00 AM
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This thread is about idea of divided arena, one part for late/mid war planes and other early/mid war planes. This is not just fantasy as low priority fronts like scandinavia and early pacific existed in WWII.
Low priority front (LPF) could be smaller in area than high priority front (HPF) since planes are bit slower. LPF would be far away from HPF, either secluded by sea or mountains. If it is sea there should be way to prevent or hinder HPF CV's getting to LPF.
LPF/HPF arena in short:
+ Finally use for early war planes
+ far better place for ground vehicle use since planes dont carry many bombs or rockets. Spitfire and Typhoon would have Hispanos but it might be that 1.07 solves that problem too.
- To reset whole arena LPF need to be conquered too. Someone might not be interested to fight in that front.
- both LPF and HPF need to be divided to three sections, creating 6 sections in total. If some country loses its section in ether front, it would cause whining (well, what doesnt really?)
- Someone might actually have time and patience to get to LPF in late war plane.
Plane and vehicle division suggestion:
LPF:
A6M5b
B-26B
Bf 109F-4 (Q1/41)
Bf 109G-2
C-47A
C.202
C.205 (Q2/42)
Fw 190A-5 (A-3 substitute Q3/41)
Ju 88
La-5FN (Q2/42)
Lancaster III (Q2/42)
M-16
M-3
P-47-D11 (Q4/42 released in 1.07)
Panzer IV H
PT Boat
SeaFire (Q4/42)
SpitV (Q1/41)
TBM-3 (Q2/42)
Typhoon (Q4/41 - Q3/42)
Yak-9T (Q1/43)
HPF:
A6M5b
Ar 234
B-17G
B-26B
Bf 109G-10
Bf 109G-6
C-47A
C.205
F4U-1C
F4U-1D
F6F-5
Fw 190A-5
Fw 190A-8
Fw 190D-9
Fw 190F-8
Ju 88
Ki 61 (Released in 1.07)
La-5FN
La-7
Lancaster III
LVT(a) 2 (Released in 1.07)
LVT(a) 4 (Released in 1.07)
M-16
M-3
N1K2
Ostwind
P-38L
P-47-D25
P-47-D30
P-51B
P-51D
Panzer IV H
PT Boat
SeaFire
Spitfire Mk IX
Ta 152H
TBM-3
Tempest
Typhoon IB
Yak-9T
Yak-9U
About plane division... It is reasonable that early war planes are not available anymore on HPF, they have been moved to LPF since they are not competitive. LPF also lacks many important planes that should be there, mainly early US planes (P-38F, F4F, P-40) but there is no use to to substitute them by later models because they are, well, later models and usually far better in performance.
Few questions since I haven't used terrain editor or fiddled with arena parameters:
- Can fields on same arena have different planes available?
- Can fleets on same arena have different planes available?
Comments? If we find enough interest we could form a task force to implement this never tried before idea!
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jochen / Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolschevismus!
[This message has been edited by Jochen (edited 04-18-2001).]
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Puntski!
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jochen / Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolschevismus!
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looks pretty good idea, but the Ki-61 and P-38 L (sub for p38 J) should be at the low priority front IMO
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I have allways liked this idea. It is very much like my "area" idea. It really does seem like the only way to introduce and have useful, early war planes. I do believe thjat some natural barrier needs to be between the "fronts" or "areas" in the arena say.... 40K mountiain range or something.
This is by far a better idea than the idiotic perk system, seperate arenas or rolling plane set or any combination thereof.
lazs
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I like it too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Chuck Perry
"Sky61"
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I like this idea. I like the 'rolling perk' idea. I also like the RPS idea.
Nearly anything would be better than what we have now.
anRky
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While I like the concept, I do have one concern; how do you keep the HPF away from the LPF in general? Is it necessary to worry about that?
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yes!
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kieran.... a 40k mountain range would do it. a 4 sector ocean would probly work too.
What I would like tho is the seperation plus.... I would like the early war area to be in the canyon section... huge deep canyons where ealy twisty turny planes would kick bellybutton on clumsy fast late war planes that managed to get to the canyons on their last few gallons of fuel after a 20-30 minute flight.
lazs
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I think wide enough sea would be enough to protect or atleast separate LPF from HPF. Also real life low priority fronts were usually separated by sea from main land like Norway, North Africa and pacific during early phases. Few fighter pilots would have patience to fly 4 or 5 sectors to harass LPF continuosly. Bombers might do it but LPF would have few strategic targets making the trip boring.
Fleets are different matter. HPF fleet could sail to LPF with very powerful carrier based planes. However sea could be occupied by chain of small islands with V bases capable of launching PT boats that might sink the CV. Or then the sea is just so big nobody wants to waste 4 hours of good fleet time just to get it over sea. This would perhaps country's HPF without fleet, making it foolhardy attempt.
This idea is actually refined from lazs original thought which is actually fine one. Separate arenas do not work because folks go where is more pilots online. Rolling Perk Set would not work because many pilots want to fly their uberplane all the time without paying it.
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jochen / Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolschevismus!
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Jochen, I like your idea (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) BTW, the C.205 is Q1/43 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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yep joch.. a big enough sea would work and so would having the early fields be in the canyons. As for the carriers... just don't allow them to track there... maybe an inland sea? It really wouldn't be hard in any case. a minor detail to work out.
The advantage of such an arena is that it is easy to choose what type of flying you want without jumping around and it offers the most parity and CHOICE for everyone of any idea I have ever seen. It would eliminate the need for perks.
lazs
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Great idea!
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I'm thinking this canyon area would suck -> in effect, the planes loose their freedom to manouever and it would be like dogfighting inside sewer pipes. Buffs and Goons would suffer since they couldn't sneak in from unexpected angles, but would be forced to follow the canyon paths, making easy work for any intercepting fighters.
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Hi guys
I don't often read the BBS, not to mention post on it. This post did pique my interest none the less, since it addresses one of my pet peeves with AH, same-era-planesets.
I agree with it's motives, although I may not completely agree with the method of execution. I can give you 3 reasons.
First off, I think separating the are(n)as would e problematic. I don't think it would be as simple as putting a huge mountain range or ocean in between. The mountain range would have to be Very high, and the ocean would have to be Very wide. This is because I think that many people would be tempted to take their TA-152s over the hill so to speak :-), or their P-51Ds across the ocean (150 miles combat radius with tanks is a looong way). What havoc a pony could wreak among c.202s, spitVs, F-4s, etc!
Secondly I think that an arena like this would just look, well, weird. I like the fact that the maps we have now, for all their faults, be they minor (CVs on a lake? :-) ), or major (why does North side in isles nearly always carry the day?) are fairly realistic and you can at least without too much effort, imagine you are really there. - However well you can really imagine being involved in a shooting war, without actually being in one.
Third and last, I just think that interest in the early war planes is sadly limited to us few hard-core sim enthusiasts, so the participation in the hostorical area would probably be limited to us. - Thought: "And this is a bad thing why?" :-)
I think we have to accept, for the time being, that we are in the mid to late-war years, and act accordingly. But I fervently hope that we will eventually see a Historical Arena, with none of these high-performance late war fighters.
To the rescue!
Darling
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How is this different from 2 seperate arenas?
Lazs says put a 40k mountain range between the areas... yeah, that's 2 seperate arenas.
First thing I would do is fly a Ta-152 over the hump and go hunting for early war sitting duck targets.
what's the big deal with early war planes anyway? You just want to furball them, it's not like you would be using some sort of real-world tactics with them.
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Midnight CO
412th FG "Nightmare Mustangs"[/i]
"You tell them I'm coming.. And Hell's coming with me!" -Kurt Russel Tombstone
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midnight u have no vision... I think that some barrier would be quite simple but i will concede that som twit like you may fly 20-30 minutes just to TRY to kill early war planes. at low alt you would look silly in ur ta 152 for the whole 2 minutes or so that you had to fly it on fumes but even then... it would be way ahead of anything else i've ever seen parity wise.
There would be any number of ways to make a barrier. one that would discourage all but the most determined no life twits who would be no real problem in any case. dodging such a loser (for a couple of clumsy pases) who was running on fumes would just give the early guys a laugh. "look at that idiot!".
lazs
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Great idea. Lemme know when you've finished building the terrain.
(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
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Lets put things into perspective...
While is possible that someone or even group of someone's will fly to LPF in late war planes like P-51 or Dora, that shouldn't be big problem because they would have to fly 20 minutes to get in LPF. Then they would have to meet slower but more nimble fighters. And if they score any kills they would be quite worthless in perk point sense.
And even then it would be much better situation than we have now, early war planes do not get use almost at all and they can be gangbanged by late war monsters all the time.
Biggest problem would be capturing territory, especially if one country captures whole LPF. When LPF is far away from HPF, almost only possibility for other countries to gain foothold in it would be massive bomber mission or CV.
I think it would be wise to divide arena to three fronts, low, medium and high. They would be populated with early, mid and late war planes. This might be good idea but it would require more arena area used for dividing seas or other obstacles.
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jochen / Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolschevismus!
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The norway map used in scenario should lend itself well to this idea. It should however be enlarged to include more of europe.
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joch... u say it so much nicer than i do.
earl, mid, and late eh? starting to sound vaugely familiar for some reason... Yep, the mid would be the largest and the other two would be quite small... adjusted in size as popularity dictated.
I think some are simply afraid of anything new no matter what... others are afraid that if people aren't "forced" they won't play with em as much.. It's not like that tho. This arena is about parity and choice for everyone.
It may seem a little radical but in use i bet people would wonder how they ever got along without it.
lazs
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It would be quite easy to divide a map for LPF and HPF (or even LPF, MPF and HPF) for just two countries. But how to divide it for three countries???
The only solution I can think is making these PFs circular... LPF would be in the center, MPF around it and HPF around both of them. Thus only the LPF could have 3-country-fights (like in the center island on current map). The lake map does not have these fights, thus MPF and LPF would be quite alike the lake map.
The good point of LPF/MPF/HPF suggestion is that it is a long way from HPF to LPF (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) It would not matter that much if only visiting to the neighbouring area. No real obsticles would be needed either... the distance would do the work. This would also make it harder to attack the HQ from the center of the map and make it easier to work back towards the center with better airplanes.
Actually I began to like this idea so much that I made a picture the show the idea. All this would need is to adjust the plane sets on each base.... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
What do you think guys??
(http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34/LPFmap.jpg)
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actually, i think the early and late war stuff only need a corner of the map say.... early war the bottom left hand corner, maybe 20%... late war the top right corner say another 20% chunk with the remaining center 60% going to mid war fields. The % could be adjusted as to popularity as time went on.
The way your map shows it would be hard to seperate areas and... allmost impossible to get to some fields within the areas.
lazs
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Just divide the 30 day tour into three 10 day chunks.
First 10 days is EARLY war planeset with mid-war planes being cheap perks (2-5 perks) and late war planes being expensive perks (10-50) and the uber planes costing 1.5 times their cost (aka, arado = 70/2=x , x+70=cost). Mid war planes get perkie gaining penalty by shooting early war planes, late war planes get twice the penalty
Next 10 days become MID WAR. Early war planes get a perkie gaining bonus, mid war become unperked and late war become cheap perks. Uber planes cost their current MA cost. mid war planes get perkie gaining penalty by shooting early war planes, late war planes get twice the perkie gaining penalty for shooting mid war planes (and 3X penalty for shooting early war planes)
Day 30 becomes LATE WAR. Early war planes get twice the perkie gaining bonus they had during mid-war, mid-war planes gain a slight perkie bonus for shooting late war planes, and late war planes become un-perked. Uber planes have their perkie cost reduced by 1/3rd (aka, Arado= 70/3=x ,70-x=newcost).late war planes get perkie gaining penalty by shooting mid war planes, late war planes get twice the perkie gaining penalty for shooting early war planes.
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Originally posted by lazs:
actually, i think the early and late war stuff only need a corner of the map say.... early war the bottom left hand corner, maybe 20%... late war the top right corner say another 20% chunk with the remaining center 60% going to mid war fields. The % could be adjusted as to popularity as time went on.
How would the 3 countries be placed on these areas then? Somekind of unpenetrateable barrier would be needed, thus it would be same as 3 separate arenas. If one could fly over from mid war to early war area, which country would they enter there? Two countries would have a border to mid war, while 3rd would be in the corner... also one midwar country could not have a border to the early war area at all.... see the problem?
The way your map shows it would be hard to seperate areas and... allmost impossible to get to some fields within the areas.
lazs
That is the whole idea of it!!!! No need to build any barriers. Mid war would be the barrier betweeb late and early war!!! Distance does the work.
What do you mean with the last sentence? Impossible to get to some fields? You mean that late war fields are impossible to attack from mid war fields??? I disagree. Usually the country that has been driven back to their home island is being gangbanged or just have lower number of pilots otherwise. And anyways many of us can take fields with early war planes. And in any case, the home islands can be attacked from the outer rim using late war bases, just like at present.
The map should be adjusted though so that these fields are balanced. My picture only showed the general idea, not exact division of areas.
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Lazs.. why do you wnat his so bad? What is the point?
You whine not to have a seperate arena, yet you want the planes to be seperated. How much logic is there in that thinking?
I don't fly the Ta-152 anyhow. It would be a P-51D. But that's not the point either.
I don't see how what you are asking for is any different than 2 arenas. If someone wants to fly an early war plane, and there is an arena for it, they could just go there and not have to worry about a late war plane at all.
Besides, no matter what arena you get, you will always be whining about bombers porking your precious fighter hanger and stoping your little "more realistic" furball.
I guess you never saw what a few P-51Ds with 1K bombs can do at an airfield. Um... kill the fighter hangers (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) Want a film? I'll send you a copy.
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Midnight CO
412th FG "Nightmare Mustangs"[/i]
The 412th is actively seeking P-51 Mustang pilots. E-mail me for more information davidl@splusnet.com
"You tell them I'm coming.. And Hell's coming with me!" -Kurt Russel Tombstone
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Very very good idea, hope we'll see this soon. Finally a setup that enables me to fly my hurri! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Thud1/Bies
Bring the Hurricane (MKIIC) to AH! (together with the Invader!)
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blau and midnight.. you need to keep the areas seperate but seperate arenas are a completely different thing.
people don't use seperate arenas because of a couple of issues... no one wants to go where there are no people and no one (or very few) wants to be a martyr. You can't tell beforehand what the numbers are and it is a hassle to log out of one arena and then back into another arena and even worse... it seperates squaddies and friends. it is divisive.
seperate areas allow everyone to see what is going on in the whole map... and, this is where midnights fear driven diatribe comes in... people will have choice.. they may not all be in the p51 area or... those that are may be too much for him to handle... A little TOO fair midnkght?
RPS is ok with me... it's not my first choice but it's better than "all late war all the time"... Problem is... a lot of people hate say early planes.. some hate very late planes... everyone is unhappy some of the time and some are just plain forced out.
the LPF or "area" arena would not leave anyone out but maybe the early area or the late area might not be used much during low numbered times of the day.. Mid war would allways be the most popular IMO but... At least there would be a 'place', that was still part of the game, for some of the less popular or more exotic planes.
RPS falls down in the choice department.. perk falls down in the parity and fairness and learning curve dept.
We all know what midnight is afraid of.... what is anyone else afraid of? if you want to force people to do what you want then u won't like it... if you like to have an advantage in plane choice then you won't like it. It's all about choice and parity. So far, this arena offers the most of both that I've ever seen.
lazs
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P-51D had like 2000 mile range. Even with the fuel multiplier, it should still go at least 500 miles in AH. Map is like 250 miles across, do the math...
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Lazs,
My intrest is in flying the eraly war planes! But I have no problem of facing the mid war planes or occasional late war planes either. I think that there is no need for an absolute barrier between areas! If some late war palne wants to fly all the way from the outer rim to the center, that is ok with me.
If there are absolute barriers, what happens when the LPF area is conquered by one country... action there ceases.. there are no more enemies. Action returns to that area only after a reset, which may take time.
I really think that the Late/Mid/Early war circular areas could work. It would balance the gangbang situation and offer more balanced matchups. Since RPS does not seem to be a popular idea, this could be the second best thing we could have.
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i dont want to have some people in uber rides and others not. I think it ruins the sortie. A barrier is best. A barrier is easy... 40K mountains or invisible barrier that sucked ur tanks allmost dry.. All areas could reset independently. The circle idea is as bad as perk. It rewards the wrong kind of behavior.
lazs
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Lazs,
IMO making the barriers is same as making 3 separate arenas, you can only see all the time where the action is. Furthermore it was quite realistic to sometimes have fights where late war and early war planes met... they all did not always have the best equipment. Actually I would not like it if I could not face any better planes at all in my early war plane (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I dont understand what you mean with "rewarding the wrong kind of behaviour"??
Would it not be a huge leap from the behaviour we have at MA at the moment?????
I am not even trying suggesting my own ideal arena ideas (strict HA with RPS), since if we want to keep all in one arena, it must be a compromise to allow all kind of action.
Another technical thing is if an area of the arena can be resetted separately.
[This message has been edited by BlauK (edited 04-24-2001).]
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What makes you think I am afraid of anything, lazs? I fly against N1Ks, C-hogs, D9s and La7s every day.
Again, your point contridicts itself.
Originally posted by lazs:
...no one wants to go where there are no people...
So how do you suggest this be handled? If no one is flying "on the other side" or your 40k barrier (yeah, that's realism) then who would be first to go there and fly all by themselves?
Let's see... maybe one of those attention starved bomber pilots. Sure. A bomber pilot would go there trying to bomb a field and not worry about getting shot down. Then some guy would come up in a fighter to kill the buff. Then the buff would re-up and maybe another friendly plane would go to kill the enemy fighter. When the enemy fighter got shot down, maybe he would re-up and a buddy might come to help. Then there could be more and more until there was a HUGE low altitude furball. Then, that attention starved guy in the bomber would fly over and take out the fighter hangers at the airfield and put a stop to that furball.
OH no! Now what to do?
I don't know lazs... maybe someday you will realize that some of the best fights are started by bombers trying to bomb something. The biggest furballs usually erupt very close to an endangered airfield.
Face it lazs.. there isn't enough popular support for what you want. Otherwise, the Dueling arena would be packed... Can't be porked, bases right next to each other, yet no huge never ending fights. Hmmmmm.. strange... I thought people just wanted a constant dog fight with no worries of bombers, or is that "Strat potatos" or maybe "perk jerks" or amish?
Grow up lazs. Quit trying to be offensive with your name labels and other insinuasions. It get's old.
Oh yeah... you want to see who can win? Let's go to the dueling arena... I'll give you all six barrels. And yes, that is a challenge.
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Midnight CO
412th FG "Nightmare Mustangs"[/i]
The 412th is actively seeking P-51 Mustang pilots. E-mail me for more information davidl@splusnet.com
"You tell them I'm coming.. And Hell's coming with me!" -Kurt Russel Tombstone
[This message has been edited by Midnight (edited 04-24-2001).]
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sniff,sniff,"yup, another one" heheeeeee (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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blau.. seperate arenas are quite different. you have to log out and then back in and with no way of knowing if it is even worth it. with the area arena everyone would have a chance to decide. and... even in an early war area u would still face a lot of different planes, some of em better than others in a lot of ways. just not so lopsided.
midnite.. early war area would have early war bombers. they can be killed by early war planes and have small bombloads. the bombing does need to be adjusted tho, and you are completely wrong in saying that the best fights are around the bombers bombing fields..... the bombers bombing fighter hangers creates non fites. the best fites are areound the carriers... why? because the carriers are the hardest too take out and that causes the fight to last long enough to develop insead of the "drop fh and gangbang" non fight ... The low priority bases would reset independently. no big deal. People go where the numbers are but they like variety if it is easy. lot of early war fans and they would "click" on an early war field in a second if only a few were allready there. espcially if the dipshits had blasted fighter hangers for a 2-3 field radius in the more popular areas and it meant a 2-4 sector roadkill ride to a fite.
What are u afraid of? you are afraid that people won't play your game if they are given any choice. I happen to think that there is room for everyone... Challenge? Yeah... come and get me, i'm easy to find but you will have to get down and dirty. I've never even seen you in the arena. we don't fly the same game.
lazs
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oh blau... "realism"... I don't want the "realism" of 6 hour flights or preflight warmups or never seeing the enemy for an entire year or..... The lopsided meeting of early war planes against late war uber rides. You are right.. that is for an historical arena and those with so little imagination that they can think they are doing something "historical" in a sim. I just want as level a playing field as possible ac wise and let the chips fall where they may after that. I don't want to fight vastly superior planes and i don't want to slaughter vastly inferior ones. I think a lot of people feel the same.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs:
oh blau... "realism"... I don't want the "realism" of 6 hour flights or preflight warmups or never seeing the enemy for an entire year or.....
Uhh.. ohh.. I dont think I talked about anything like that. I referref to the situation which we have at the moment... early war and late war planes on the same arena. I was just trying to argue against a statement that we dont now have a "realistic" setup of planes. I said that it is ok IMO to have such match-ups sometimes, but not all the time.
The lopsided meeting of early war planes against late war uber rides. You are right.. that is for an historical arena and those with so little imagination that they can think they are doing something "historical" in a sim.
No no... in a historical arena the plane match-ups would be much more even and correct. For the MA the uneven match-ups only add some spice. But at present MA is just full of spice, thus overwhelming the real flavor.
I just want as level a playing field as possible ac wise and let the chips fall where they may after that. I don't want to fight vastly superior planes and i don't want to slaughter vastly inferior ones. I think a lot of people feel the same.
lazs
I think you fail to see that we are on the same side on this. I am just trying to figure out a compromise which HTC could actually put to practice without losing all those late-war-furballers and still give us some chances for the more evenly set match-ups and early war encounters. What you are asking would take away what those other guys enjoy. You yourself state that people have to be given choises, not taken them away. IMO it is better to keep it in some form and try to mix more possibilities in the same game.
About the barriers not being same as different arenas... Well, not quite the same, but almost. The difference being 2 mouse clicks nad the ability to see where the action is. Still one would have to land nad re-up the plane to switch from early to mid war. Without barriers one could actually fly to the closest encounter from early to mid war.
Barriers would separate the action and force people to use certain planes. I dont think there are enough pilots for 3 separate areas or arenas. The action must be flexible.
Lazs, do you find my suggestions much worse than the situation we have at MA at the moment???
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I still think that no unpenetrable barrier like 40 kft mountains is needed between LFP and HPF.
Think LPF as North Africa and HPF as Western Europe. Carriers did transport new planes to North Africa regularly, most notably to Malta. This would happen in MA too with LPF/HPF division.
If some country is doing very badly in LPF it could send fleet to help its fight in there. Or they could launch a mid/late war bombers to bomb enemy bases in LPF. Since the distance would be quite large it wouldn't happen too often.
LPF/HPF scheme would not and cannot guarantee that every country has possibility to fly LPF planes all the time. It was like that in real war too and it needs to be accepted.
Main action would still be in HPF with majority of pilots. HPF would still be most important when deciding arena resets. Most of strat elements would be in HPF and if country loses them its fight in LPF would become very very difficult indeed.
Anyone at HTC (except natedog, superfly, ronnie or yankee) can comment on this idea? If we build it will you guys use it?
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jochen / Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolschevismus!
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blau... i think joch has a handle on it. If early war planes have any following then they will be used in the LPF. the barriers need to be there. spice is not fighting vastly superior ac. even someone with my mediocre skill finds it boringly simple to take out the average player when he is saddled with inferior iron. A 109E or Spit1 would stand no chance against hellcats or hogs or spit9/14. not worth doing. I don't want to be on either side of that equation. Most people do not want to be B&Zed by vastly faster ac. This is the "realism" that is not fun and not worth simulating same for 6 hour flights etc.
The field capture needs badly to be changed in a very simple way. let fighters be available till the field is closed.
lazs
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Lazs,
I also agree with Jochen (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) and I think he is for the idea not against it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) He also says that barriers are not needed.
There is no need to guarantee the early war action. It happens first and when areas are conquered the war noves on to mid war etc. The war can ofcource move back to LPF as well.
The best thing about this is that the early war planes would still be available at other fields too. Only their opponents would more likely be better planes than at LPF.
I am also considering this with the planes AH has now. We dont know if it will ever have Spit1a or 109E-4 or other BoB planes. Just divide the present planes in 3 categories.
If the map is large enough (maybe only a bit larger than at present) the distance is all the barriers we need. You yourself talk about how boring it would be to fly long distances... that is what the late war planes would have to do if they wanted to go to LPF.
[This message has been edited by BlauK (edited 04-24-2001).]
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blau.. i agree... to a certain extent... long distances are usually enough for most people but bomber guys are immune to boredom. Maybe make it so that bombers were not available at even the fields closest to the borders? somehow u have to keep the attention starved and the opportunists away. If they can dweeb it they will. I've watched PT boats respawn a dozen times 100 yards away from the carrier and be blown up each time in order that they could get off a torpedo or two... same with suicide bombers.
I have nothing against any earlier war plane being available at later fields. there are some who enjoy the challenge and they would be welcome. It does not work the reverse tho... many would like to fly some of the less advanced ac without being pestered by far superior planes.
lazs