Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: humble on April 26, 2002, 09:19:39 PM
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Is it just me or is the nikki reporked?
Watched all the old games....stall out push nose down drop 500 and zoom 2k. As far as I'm concerned the nikki is the 1 FM that has no basis in reality. The plane was designed as a bomber interceptor not a dogfighter. At least just put a ki-84 skin on the FM...I could live with that.
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I was thinking this same thing a couple of days ago. There I was... alone 1:1 against an N1K in my Hellcat. We danced a little on the merge and each got a few hits on each other... I managed to get an aileron and he pinged me a couple of times with no visible damage. Unfortunately... I was completely out of ammo and had to egress the fight.
I got him in a turn fight where I had a couple of notches of flap and I managed to gain position when he panicked and made an agressive evasive allowing me to point my nose down and run for home. He noticed what I was doing and came around about 700 yards behind me and pinged me a couple more times.
Then I left him in the dust.
Yep... that N1K2... its just too damn uber. Uber speed... uber turning and uber guns.
:rolleyes:
AKDejaVu
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Yawn, I like it just the way it was, before the operation to prevent it from breading,now it is slow and slugish.
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Originally posted by brady
Yawn, I like it just the way it was, before the operation to prevent it from breading,now it is slow and slugish.
so do I...
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Originally posted by brady
prevent it from breading
What -- it hovers, it streaks, AND it makes tempura?
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AkDeja my guess is that the n1k you flew against was either a VERY green pilot or he had elevator damage.
No way in blue hell you'd be able to pull that off against an experienced pilot in the n1kki.
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I think it is just you, actually...
The N1K2 is slow. It accelerates really well, but it is still slow. Just about every other 1944-1945 fighter can outrun it. The climb rate is OK. Since they nuetered it, N1K2s are actually pretty easy to rope a dope, way easier than I find Spits to be.
Just my opinion though.
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Urchin what about being able to turnfight it in hellcat and actually leave winning?
N1kki is slow in level flight, but it accelerates so fast in dives that it's near to impossible to shake if it's in a good position to follow.
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If Dejavu was on his tail then it would be comparitively easy to get away. All he has to do is fly away- the N1K has to turn around. If the Hellcat has a big enough headstart it can get away no problem.
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People have a hard time accepting that the n1k2 is an exceptional airplane, almost as good as the spitIX, on the deck it may even be superior .
As for the ki84 reference, the n1k2 should have better handling characteristics than the ki84, especially at high speed .
The hellcat is a huge heavy fighter, on par with the p47 . If an f4u can hang with a hellcat in a stallfight, what hope does it have vs a n1k2. About as much as it had in real life .
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Originally posted by mrsid2
AkDeja my guess is that the n1k you flew against was either a VERY green pilot or he had elevator damage.
No way in blue hell you'd be able to pull that off against an experienced pilot in the n1kki.
I have to agree. A great deal depends upon the skills and experience of the person flying the N1K2, as well as the tactical situation at the outset of the fight. With the exception of maximum speed (often meaningless) and a slight advantage in initial dive acceleration, the N1K2 is superior to the Hellcat. I like the F6F-5. I fly it frequently, and generally do very well air to air with it. Most of my losses have been to ack and flak. However, I also have been flying the N1K2 this tour. I find the Niki to be the better fighter. OTOH, the Hellcat is a better fighter-bomber, and carefully flown, can duke it out with virtually anything. Yet for some reason, I have no trouble with the Hellcat myself, scoring at 33/3. Of these, I shot down 5 with the Niki (for no losses), and two others with the Hellcat. My losses to the F6F-5 include two Ostwinds and 1 Spitfire, and that was a proximity credit, as I was whacked by field ack and crashed on the runway. Air to air, I'm 20/0 against the F6F-5. Nonetheless, if one wants to know what the Hellcat is capable of, just examine Mathman's stats.
When I fight Hellcats, I always try to break down its energy. I do this by forcing the pilot to turn. If I can get him into a scissors, he's in deep bandini. To survive, he MUST keep his speed at or above corner. Let it fall below 250 and a decent Niki pilot will kill him forthwith.
A good F6F pilot can hold his own with Nikis, provided that he keep his energy up and/or avoids level turns. AkDejaVu was clearly the better pilot that day.
My regards,
Widewing
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It's proof of Roswell....I want to believe
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F6f had the biggest wing area of any U.S. ww2 fighter. Just because a plane is big doesnt make it a dog.
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Originally posted by mrsid2
AkDeja my guess is that the n1k you flew against was either a VERY green pilot or he had elevator damage.
No way in blue hell you'd be able to pull that off against an experienced pilot in the n1kki.
I've out-turned many a N1K2 with my F6F-5....
And green does not account for leaving the N1K2 behind.
Besides.. he didn't spray and pray... controlled bursts... and decent moves.
BTW... there are pilots in every type of plane that can hand it to me when I encounter them. The main gripe seems to be that this plane makes every pilot an ace. It simply is not true.
And.. there was no "elevator shot". I hit is wing.. I watched his aileron go. No need to try to make it sound worse than it really was.
AKDejaVu
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I wish I could kill N1K's when I fly my Hellcat. Damn, that plane is just too uber.:rolleyes:
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Any plane can be killed. That's simple.. just bounce it with a couple friends.
But meet him co-alt co-e face to face.. I'd prefer to be in a n1k than a hellcat.
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But meet him co-alt co-e face to face..
Co-alt? Co-E? Face to face? Now there is a recipe for dying fast!
I'd only do that IF
1. I had flown stupid. (fly stupid die stupid, that's me!) :D
or
2. I wuz furballing. I lose about 90 IQ points when I see a furball :)
AKEagle+
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Yeah thats the basis on 'uberness.'
If someone states they turnfought the 'porked' nikki and won in hellcat I assume he did that co-alt co-e and 1 vs 1.
Otherwise if hellcat had advantage to start with, thats no sign that nikki would be porked or inferior to hellcat.
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I used to come and play in these anti N1K2-j posts all the time, and aparentaly I am reliving my childhood:),The reasion I stoped is this for the msot part they seam to be from the opinion that people have a hard time excepting that a Japanese plane can preform so well, even it it was designed to do just what it does do so well, that is of little concern. What we are fighting are decades of propaganda. I was having lunch with so coliges from wook and some how we got on the subject of WW2 planes and the Zero came up, every one of them ( all men in their 40's and 50's) thought it was coppied from a US design and built porely and that why we wone the war! None of them beleaved me that it was an Indiginious design and a better fighter in the begining of the war and that it had superbably trained crews.
People regulary complain about fighting aganst spits and seeing spits all the time, they do not complane about how well built it is, how well it preforms, or how well it handels they do not question this, they do not question the fact that the 20mm hispanos used to jam alot, they do question the fact that the Georges engines were unreliable at times and should be loked at.
Every body say's just wait till we get the Ki 84, well the Ki 84 has the same engine as the N1K2-J, and the same gun's as the Tony(Ki-61) and does not handel as well as the George, for the mosst part and for most of the combat in the MA the George is going to still be the best Japanese fighter.
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After last "fix", F6F is a fast and blue N1K2.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
After last "fix", F6F is a fast and blue N1K2.
ie, it outperform's some luftwaffe plane in at least one or two catagories. :rolleyes:
-Sikboy
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Otherwise if hellcat had advantage to start with, thats no sign that nikki would be porked or inferior to hellcat.
I am not sure that it is the FM that makes the difference (as the original post claimed the FM is now porked) as much as the pilot.
I fly the NIK in base defense, although, now I am taking the F4UD more and more, even for base defense. Getting vulched taking off and flying low and slow is losing it's appeal. I am preferring to fly faster and higher.
But for many sim pilots, at least IMVHO, it seems that they prefer whining on a BBS that the FM is porked over analyzing what they are doing wrong and trying to correct their bad ACM. When you make the mental move from being a victim, at the mercy of a pooched FM, to being a victor who can learn how to leverage the attributes of your favorite mount, you make a big step towards manhood.
The NIK is a deadly mount, but it is not a twirling kill bot. You can whine about it being porked, and you can whine about it being uber. Or, you can learn to fight it, and you can learn to fly it.
You really do have choices. That may be an epiphany for some players.
AKEagle+
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AKEagle+, well said....
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people should just adjust there flying to how the plane performs "in-game" not to the mental picture they created from some propaganda book they read. This goes for all planes.
We all want realistic fms and I dont think it would be in the interest of anyone to make 1 plane better then the data.
Why?
if you have hard data that shows clearly something is wrong then provide it. In the meantime you may want to adjust how you fight vrs a niki. You may find it aint quite as "uber" as you think.
fyi
wotan has 21 kills and has been killed 3 times against the N1K2.
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In the height of the Chog BBS rants, I remember Fatty saying something like, “Whine all you want, the N1K2 is way better/deadly”. Soon after, maybe post perk, this old crappola started.
FM is arbitrary at best. I find it impossible to believe HTC has a single plane so porked.
Now this might be a Laz2 type conclusion, but if it gives you fits, fight it in a Dora, it becomes a toothless target. If in an early war ride, it’s a beast to tangle with, but it WAS a good late war fighter. ( I still can't hit with the guns as well as the FW's, but the ammo load helps)
Buy and read “Samurai”, pry the best WWII fighter book I’ve read. That guy was a monster in a Zeke, and points out a few N1K2 observations.
Matter fact, read it, the next update will be very anticipating.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
After last "fix", F6F is a fast and blue N1K2.
How so Mandoble? I fly the F6F all the time and have yet to see it do anyhting that resembles what people allege the N1K2 has been doing in the game. Please explain to me what you mean by this.
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I think he means it outperforms at least one Luftwaffe aircraft in one or more categories... honestly. Perhaps it is just me and my bad day, but this incessent whining is stupid.
Waaa Waaa... the N1K2 killed me in my Spit I, or 109E4, or anything that is basically early war.
Big diddlying deal. You are flying a plane that was made in 1940, to fight other 1940 planes. You fight a 1944 plane in a 1940 plane, the odds are good that you are going to die no matter how 'good' you may be.
Or..
Waaa Waaaa.. the N1K2 killed me when I was in a P-51D, La-7, etc., basically anything late war.
Tough toejam. If you are flying ANY of the 1944-1945 planes and someone in a N1K2 kills you, it is because YOU screwed up. The N1K2 has ALREADY been castrated because to many people were whining about it. It isn't even half the plane it was before they 'fixed it' (literally and figuratively)... if you are STILL getting killed by N1K2's in your P-51 or La-7 or whatever late war 'speed demon', you need to film all your fights so YOU can figure out what YOU are doing wrong.
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Originally posted by Urchin
I think he means it outperforms at least one Luftwaffe aircraft in one or more categories.
Whoa, sounds familiar ;)
-Sikboy
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vv. i plagerized you. Couldn't be bothered to hit 'quote' though ;)
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Originally posted by Urchin
vv. i plagerized you. Couldn't be bothered to hit 'quote' though ;)
That's ok, I think I'm on Mandys ignore list anyhow :eek:
-Sikboy
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Originally posted by Creamo
Now this might be a Laz2 type conclusion, but if it gives you fits, fight it in a Dora, it becomes a toothless target.
Hmm, I find the Dora to be a toothless target, I'm 15/1 against them, 27/4 against all 190s.
OTOH, I'm 100/23 (12 lost to acks and Flak) in the N1K2, 26/5 against it. Really, it boils down to the pilot and tactics, with the aircraft being somewhat incidental. I find that the Niki can out-run whatever it can't out-turn. Knowing that, forming tactics is all that remains.
My regards,
Widewing
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The dive performance of the n1k is what brings the whines.
It seems unreal how a n1k that you met face to face (n1k being a couple thousand feet higher) reverses 180 and catches the p51 in dive even if he does a 0-g dive. If the p51 flies straight - he dies. If he turns - he dies.
Ok, maybe n1k alone isn't impossible to escape, but in most cases the n1k has dove on me after I'm extending from 3:1 fight with a spit, hurri, tiffy etc. With already 3 cons chasing you and the n1k diving after you with speed that can't be matched with the 'fast' late war plane.. That really bugs me off.
I really hate the n1k when it ends the fight like this even after I managed to fight a superior enemy and extend from all of them.
I'm pretty sure many others have the same kind of experiences.
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Originally posted by Mathman
Please explain to me what you mean by this.
I also fly the F6F in jabo roles. I've flown also the N1K2J several times in CT (perked! he he). Both handle almost the same for me, with weapons and speed advantage for the F6F. In MA, flying F6F, I rarelly need to drop my bombs and rockets when dogfighting some deffender. This from the cockpit of these planes.
Fighting them I use mainly 190A5 and 190D9, and N1K2 and F6F are the same plane for me with different skinn. The only difference is that F6F is able to outdive me and N1K2 isn't. That, and the range of their weapons. Add also the F6F advantage in hi speed control.
A final note. In MA, flying F6F, I've been able to outturn Spits IX with ease, not the same with N1K2 against Spits in CT.
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Yes Mrsid, I can understand your frustration there- but that isn't the N1K killing you. Or rather, any plane in that situation can kill you. As an example, I was in the MA yesterday in a 109g10. I was just tooling around over a friendly base that was under a heavy attack by the rooks. There were 6 to 7 enemy planes chasing me just about the whole time I was flying over the base. Eventually, the majority of them got bored when they captured the base and stopped chasing me around. So I turned and started to go home (and I'm at 20k or so). I was thinking what a boring sortie that had been, when a co-alt Spit makes a run on me. I dodged his HO pass, leaving him chasing me about 2.5k back once he turned around. I came across a frienly getting chased around by an F6F and a Spit. Against my better judgement, I dive down to help him out. The Spit on my tail follows me down. In the ensuing dogfight, the Spit on my countrymans tail goes down (gotta love 30mm), and like 6 new enemies start piling on. I decided discretion was the better part of valor and head for home, with 4 spits on my tail. The farthest one is about 4k back, the closest is about 1.2 back and spraying for all he is worth. I'm hauling bellybutton home at 400 mph when I look back and see yet another Spit diving on me. He is gaining real fast, so I let him get within 800 yards, chop throttle and pull up hard into a barrel roll. As he overshot, I got a real good look at him. It was either a Spit I or a Spit V- but he had a significant altitude advantage on me that he had converted into about 450 mph of speed.
I've dove on La7s in a 110 and caught them. It isnt all about top speed, but what your top speed is in a certain situation. And yes, I agree with you that getting gangbanged sucks ass, but there is nothing you can do about it in our brave new arena.