Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Udie on April 29, 2002, 10:46:38 AM
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http://www.canada.com/edmonton/edmontonjournal/specials/story.html?id={452AC91A-974E-493E-B464-F4954EA0BB7D}
What an absolute shame. It's truely disgusting what seems to be happening to this hero, all over an squealing picture of one of his kills.
If they court martial the guy, I hope he's allowed to enlistin the Rangers or Delta Force or something down here in the USA. We can always use more good soldiers.
sigh....
[edit]
Thanks Tahgut, does it work now? :)
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Think your link is porked Udie. Even tried copy and paste....no joy. Obviously you have pissed off the PC gods and will pay!:eek:
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Your link truncated the edmontonjournal part. Try this.Soldier Story (http://www.canada.com/edmonton/edmontonjournal/specials/story.html?id={452AC91A-974E-493E-B464-F4954EA0BB7D})
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Perry, a trained sniper, is under investigation for allegedly participating in a so-called "calling card" photograph of a dead Afghan fighter.
A cigarette had been stuck in the corpse's mouth and a sign on its chest read "F... terrorism."
LOL, he should get a medal for creativity...or maybe that would just be a patch?
SOB
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The Canadian government seems to be hell bent on proving that Parisians aren't the snobiest people in the world.
Combine this article with the reporter writing that Canada doesn't like to admitt that their soldiers kill people and you get a somewhat staggering overview.
It seems they think that they only have a military to show the rest of the world how much better they are than everyone else. How much "above it all" they are.
AKDejaVu
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It sure looks like my assessment of the story and Canadian "apologist" in the sniper thread was right on. The chain of command in Canada has more than a few weak links, they're twisted too. Threatening this guy with a court is absurd. I think there is a definite need for a reality check in the Canadian upper echelons. The troopies have their heads on straight but they are certainly getting no support from home.
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Thats sums up all of what is bad about my country..
fear
fear
fear
Young guy does his job. Without the benifit of propaganda to de -humanise his enemy or any nationalistic furour to stoke the flames...and gets a little carried away..and instead of getting a talking to he gets charged...
But the leadership of our armed forces and our country are so afraid of anything that they cashier the guy...
edit..
should note that these are the same clowns that cover up rapes if they can be and cover up illegal expenditures and send out airmen out in 40 year old seakings....
dont leave me alone with the prettythangholes...
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Canada is the most "outwardly" PC country I have ever lived in. The problem there is that below the surface of their "idilyic mosaic" of cultures there is racism and bigotry festering that no-one wants to talk about.
The military is the place where it seems to boil over occassionally.
About four or five years ago an entire airbourne regiment was disbanded after a number of racist incidents in Somalia were made public.
What you are seeing here is a "backlash" to all of that.
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Pongo, he didn't get carried away, that's what soldiers are supposed to do .
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Originally posted by Samm
Pongo, he didn't get carried away, that's what soldiers are supposed to do .
It may be what soldiers do, it is definitely not what they are supposed to do. The act was wrong, and the reaction is overblown.
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...During that 1993 mission, Canadian soldiers tortured and beat to death a 16-year-old Somalian boy. Photos of the bound and bloodied teen outraged and disgusted Canadians and led to the dismantling of the airborne regiment.
You canadians are weird...You dismantle an airborne regiment because some guys screw up??
Canada...the country where the PC-crowd finally lost it.
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Hortlund...
It's a bit more complicated than that.
The regiment that was disbanded was rife with Neo-Nazi types that were threatening the integrity of the Canadian forces.
The Somalia incident to which you refer was a disgrace, but it was only made public after numerous attempts by high ranking officers to cover up the incident. Then a few videos were publicised showing neo-nazi types "hazing" new recruits, including a black recruit. These guys were forcing the "newbies" to smear excrement over themselves etc etc.
When the average Canadian saw that crap on TV they were appalled. The Canadian military has a glorious reputation world-wide for their actions in both World Wars and also for their Peace-Keeping efforts since the last world war.
So...instead of trying to pick the bad apples off a rotting tree they simply cut the whole damn thing down.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
You canadians are weird...You dismantle an airborne regiment because some guys screw up??
Canada...the country where the PC-crowd finally lost it.
Kinda makes me admire the resolve of our Northern neighbors. The Canadian Government stepped up and did the right thing. All wars have atrocities. Not all countries react like the Canadians.
The Somalia inquiry was established in November 1994, after the military's portrayal of the Somalia atrocities as the work of a few bad apples had been undermined by a series of devastating leaks. It was learned that army officers had promised to reward the first soldier to kill a Somali. Scores of Canadian troops had heard the cries of 16-year-old Shidone Arone as he was beaten to death over several hours, yet none intervened. Snapshots and video tapes surfaced that showed Canadian troops engaging in barbaric hazing rituals and using racist epithets to describe Somalis and otherwise mocking and humiliating them.
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Midnight target why do you think it was wrong ? Soldiers are supposed to have that kind of motivation . If you think that is wrong you would be appalled by what some US army units have in their trophy cases . In Desert Storm British soldiers played football with a head, were they wrong ? No . I remember my drill seargant showing me a pic of himself from Just Cause crouched by a dead guy with an mre spoon full of brain, in mock gesture as if he was eating, was it wrong ? No. So I guess you think that the thousand of soldiers that took photos of the corpses on the highway of death were wrong ? In WWII they used to send skulls home to their girlfriends . This sort of spirit should be nurtured in the warrior class, not admonished .
BTW. I agree with you about the canucks in somolia .
I remember in Desert Storm the 101st Div had reissued decks of "death" cards . They looked great, they had an eagle carrying a skull in it's tallons. Anyone know where I can find a deck today ?
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I wonder if this gutless PC crap is why Canada is so ignored in the world and generally not taken seriously. It seems the national culture and human spirit is so diluted by by PC ideology nobody respects Canada because they see Canada has no respect and pride in itself- except for pride in her indifference and lack of characracter.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I wonder if this gutless PC crap is why Canada is so ignored in the world and generally not taken seriously. It seems the national culture and human spirit is so diluted by by PC ideology nobody respects Canada because they see Canada has no respect and pride in itself- except for pride in her indifference and lack of characracter.
:D Where do you come up with this watermelon Grun? Did you watch the Olympics?
Canada has no pride in itself? Any Canadians out there think this is factual?
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As a Canadian, I feel this way...
We have a mostly right-wing population, but a usually left-wing government, which makes the government out of step with the people. Don't ask me how our electoral system makes this happen... I don't know! :)
Most people I know think that soldiers are sent out to kill people, and think they should get medals for doing their job well. It blows my mind to read some of the crap that we put our armed forces through.
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I purpose a trade. You Canadians can have mid target, a knee jerk liberal of the first order. We will take that fellow that can shoot. We can always use a GOOD man.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
It may be what soldiers do, it is definitely not what they are supposed to do. The act was wrong, and the reaction is overblown.
If this is kneejerk, what do you call all the Limbite parroting and Buchananisms "someone" keeps posting here. You don't have to be a reationary to be a "GOOD" man.
And how do you know I can't shoot? hmmmmmmmm?
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Originally posted by Samm
Pongo, he didn't get carried away, that's what soldiers are supposed to do .
Maybe SS soldiers or Taliban soldiers.
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A comment by a Canadian soldier, in the article:
"He has been hanging around Americans too much," Ethell said. "He has become Americanized. Canadian soldiers don't degrade the bodies of enemy soldiers. That's what differentiates us from other armies.
Is this the way Canadian soldiers percieve the American troops? as savages?
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Grunhurz..
your so sad.
lol
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I'm surprised that so many think there is something wrong with taking trophy pics .
Even equating the many soldiers that do so with murderous Nazis and criminals :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by easymo
We can always use a GOOD man.
hehe. He said he can use a good man.
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Originally posted by Animal
Is this the way Canadian soldiers percieve the American troops? as savages?
I know American troops percieve themselves to be more savage than anyone else ;)
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How in the HELL can so many of you overlook exactly what Cpl. Perry did, for Christ's sakes? He placed a cigarette in another human being's mouth- and not only that but a human being who was unable to protest because he was friggin dead. And then he placed a sign around this deceased Al Queda fighter's neck, he posed with him, and that would have all been well and good up to that point- but when he LIT THAT CIGARETTE, at that point, IMO, he became a criminal.
You want a war trophy? Great, get one. Victors have been placing heads on pikes, scalping, making ear necklaces or testicle purses at the expense of their defeated for about 400,000 years now, so why should things change just because we have sanitized warfare? But when Cpl. Perry lit that cigarette to pose for the picture he stepped over the line. Tobacco is among the three principle evils mentioned in the Greens party manual along with internal combustion engines and nuclear power.
It is unfortunate Cpl. Perry didn't put a carrot stick in that guy's mouth and hang a sign around his neck saying "Eat your veggies, be healthy, and remember, whenever you start to cry because you're Canadian remember we won the gold medals in Salt Lake City." He would be heralded a hero and be assured a long career in Canadian civil service.
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"These are great days we're living, bros! We are jolly green giants, walking the earth with guns. These people we wasted here today are the finest human beings we will ever know. After we rotate back to the world, we're gonna miss not having anyone around that's worth shooting."
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Keep the Airborne, Disband the Liberals.
A pal of mine, MCPL Kevin Boland was busted in rank for having this bumper sticker on his truck, therefore, the fact that this CPL is being charged is hardly surprising.
Canada donated 130 million to mexico, for armed helicopters to help wag the "war on drugs", while our minister of health at the time was a proponent for legalization of mary jay. Meanwhile, like pongo said, Sea Kings continue to be fling wings. I saw one bite it at CFB Moose Jaw in the early nineties.
Canada: Great Country, Greater Soldiers, Great Imbiciles in Government. My G to the power of 4 theory.
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A bizarre relationship between the government and the military to be sure.
"Ok young man, we're gonna make a soldier out of you, so that you can go do our dirty work... But just don't, you know... Like when your killin' people and stuff, just keep your cool and please be civil about it. Gentlemanly. And if yer good at yer job (and you better be!) we can't really recognize that or anything because while we train you to go out and kill for us, it's an unseemly business and we'd rather not even acknowledge the fact that this stuff even takes place".
How demoralizing must that be.
"Is this the way Canadian soldiers percieve the American troops? as savages?" - Animal
It's interesting that you take that quote (which is entirely factual... it is what it is) and ask if Canadian soldiers perceive US soldiers as "savages". Nobody said anything about savages - so is that the way you perceive them? As we know from this thread, Canadian soldiers aren't any different. Why? I can only take a stab at it and guess it's because, well, they're soldiers. I can't speak for them - I aint one - but damn... You train these guys to be warriors and do as warriors do... ask them to risk their lives gettin' shot at and all manner of hellish shiat... for *your* benefit... and then expect them to behave as if they were not.
Certain codes of conduct have to be followed... absolutely... But if we as a country don't seem to want to recognize when our boys do well, we have no business castigating them for takin' a Polaroid beside a dead guy. If yer a Canadian soldier, it seems you just can't win.
You fight wars when your politics just can't get the job done. As such, we really oughta leave the politics out of the wars.
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"Die for your country"
Motivating words, yes? And of course, kill the enemy, achieve victory at any cost,under any circumstance, etc...
I didn't go into work today fearing for my life, feeling as though I had to kill someone or be killed. And most of us posting probably didn't either.
To be a soldier, and a good one, asks us to deny normal morality.
I think that the soldiers actions would be better called a "symptom" of war.
Not a pretty "symptom". Not moral.
No one here would manhandle a corpse for a pretty picture.
No one here was probably asked to go die for their country today, either. And had to do it...
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Ahh too much fun.
Notice that the important person here- B.Gen. MacKenzie ret. basically said it was a crock of crap. That is because that fine gentleman was and probably is the best commander the Can army ever got in his generation.
His contemporaries and predeccesors are a bunch of toejamlicking politicized cowards tards and inept rank climbers. Don't be surprised by anything they come out with or do- they created an army where generals outnumbred AFV's during the 90's.
Much of the attitude towards the armed forces in Canada comes from the odd belief that you only joined because you failed high school. Thus most of the servicemen get held in a contemptuous way by anyone who has not served themselves in the armed forces. Canadians are still obsessed by a belief that they are a "militia" people, where anyone naturally born in the country can pick up a rifle and be the best soldier that ever walked the earth.
Yet it has been the highly proffesional trained and motivated armed forces they have that does all the work, and then gets mostly ignored.
As a whole it is too strange to explain, only experienced. Generally they are a confused people who believe right wing polotic yet vote left wing politicians. Hate their tax load yet demand incredible amounts of social services. Complain about becoming americanized yet cannot define a culture of thier own (besides anti-americanism).
Don't try and understand. It will just make your head hurt.
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
The Canadian government seems to be hell bent on proving that Parisians aren't the snobiest people in the world.
Again a governement is proved to be wrong ....
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Without being too complicated, why should Canada have a military? Who the hell is gonna invade/attack a country thats bordered to the south by the USA and to the north by a big frozen Artic circle?
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2 things:
1. Canada is a great and beautiful country and the Canadian people are some of the friendliest and most hospitipal people I know of. I love Canada. I do not like to hear people trashing Canadians.
2. How in the HELL can so many of you overlook exactly what Cpl. Perry did, for Christ's sakes? He placed a cigarette in another human being's mouth- and not only that but a human being who was unable to protest because he was friggin dead. And then he placed a sign around this deceased Al Queda fighter's neck, he posed with him, and that would have all been well and good up to that point- but when he LIT THAT CIGARETTE, at that point, IMO, he became a criminal.
Elfenwolfy, answer me this: Where was the liberal outrage when President Clinton encouraged that young women to utililize a tobacco product??? You libs were strangely silent then. :D
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Originally posted by Gunthr
Elfenwolfy, answer me this: Where was the liberal outrage when President Clinton encouraged that young women to utililize a tobacco product??? You libs were strangely silent then. :D
Two major differences- Monica Lewinsky willingly shared that cigar with Bill, and the cigar was never lit.
Now if I were a troll- but I ain't- I would say something like Cpl. Perry should have to go through classes on the dangers of tobacco, but like I said, I ain't no troll.
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wtf...I thought Clinton smoked that cigar in a meeting right after the..."incident"
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Good thread.
Gman, Nash, Pongo, Sclew...I agree.
Animal: Just because one guy says something doesn't mean they all feel that way. Most Canuk soldiers I've known enjoyed spending time with soldiers from the U.S. as well as other countries. Lets not forget these soldiers are mostly young men talking to these reporters who will slice and dice what they say as it suits them.
Rip: That exact question gets asked alot up here. Personally I like having a military I just wish they would fund it better or cut the numbers and spend the savings on newer equipment.
Cheers!!
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Elfnwolf, you're too juevenile to have been a vietnam veteran. You can't be over the age of 17.
Now. I can respect easymos opinions because he's not a a lame fool trying to relive his childhood on the boards. Plus, he's a real vietnam vet, unlike that lil elfnwolf spastic.
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Hmm... calling someone a spastic in order to insult them is what I would consider juvenile, hblair.
Anyway, Elfenwolf's posts are rarely serious and the worst thing that could be said about them is that they are irreverent.
An adjective that could be used to describe that soldier's actions, BTW.
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Unfortunately,Canada is the land of the politically correct...We need a Canadian TV show like USA's "Politically Incorrect"...Too bad be have no TV networks with balls...:(
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That was supposed to be a funny dowding.
:)
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I still don't get it.
Perhaps I need a holiday... ;)
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I just got back from vacation yesterday dowding, maybe my humor is a little drier than usual.
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Lucky you. :)
Got to wait until June for my holidays - Espana!
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Dowding Hey, I laughed. Somehow being called a "spastic" by hblair isn't an insult.
Welcome back, hblair. Hope you had a nice vacation.