Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: midnight Target on April 29, 2002, 11:02:19 AM
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One of my favorite Clancy novels. I hope Hollywood does it justice.
Ben Affleck as Jack Ryan?
I guess Harrison Ford is a little long in the tooth.
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Just as long as they don't cast William DeFoe as Clark again.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Just as long as they don't cast William DeFoe as Clark again.
AKDejaVu
Looks like you get your wish:
http://us.imdb.com/Name?Schreiber,+Liev (http://us.imdb.com/Name?Schreiber,+Liev)
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Originally posted by midnight Target
One of my favorite Clancy novels. I hope Hollywood does it justice.
Ben Affleck as Jack Ryan?
I guess Harrison Ford is a little long in the tooth.
mine too
Just for continuity, HFord should have been Ryan
Fantastic book, will probably be a "good" movie
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Thought the book was OK. Maybe rank it 4th overall from the Clancy stuff.
My God.. the first 200 pages were tough to get through. Picked up considerably from there.
I'm suprised they are going younger with Jack Ryan though... He's supposed to be Vice President at the end of this one.. isn't he? I just can't see Ben Afleck as vice president.
It kind of reminds me of a "where are they now" that I saw on Ally Sheedy. She'd almost gotten the role in a movie opposite Richard Geere... but the casting people said she was too old to be Geere's girlfriend. Her response was "I wonder if I'm too old to play Jack Nickleson's girlfriend?"
AKDejaVu
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Wrong book DJ, you're thinking of 'Debt of Honor'.
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As long as they dont cast Alec Baldwin as anything.
dago
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IIRC this book immediately precedes 'Clear and Present Danger' chronologically.
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Sum of all Fears... nuclear weapon being built.
Debt of Honor... Japanese Attack.
Ryan was already in VP office (because of ending in Sum of All Fears) and effectively becomes President at end of Debt of Honor.
Right?
Edit: Debt of Honor was a total Prequil now that I think about it... Clark's origins. Can't remember what the Japanese conflict title was... Jack was asked to be VP at beginning of it (because of Sum of all Fears) and then is almost inaugerated at the end of the book.
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They have completely changed the plot.
"When the president of Russia suddenly dies and is succeeded by a man about whom little is known, tension increases as old fears ignite new paranoia. Director of Central Intelligence, Bill Cabot (Freeman), recruits a young analyst from the Russian desk, Jack Ryan (Affleck), to supply insight and advice. Then the unthinkable happens: the capital Chechnya is leveled by a nuclear bomb. America is quick to blame the Russians and mistrust escalates despite Ryan's certainty that other players are at work. He's right. Terrorists bent on provoking open war between the two nations are moving behind the scenes to manufacture and escalate a conflict. When they succesful ly detonate a second bomb outside Baltimore during the Super Bowl, the world is pushed inexorably towards war... "
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Reading Rainbow Six I always had a mental picture of Clark played by this man:
(http://www.space.com/images/v_smoking_man.02,0.jpg)
An older man.
And his protegee and son-in-law would be John Leguizamo.
At least, thats how I see it.
As for Ryan.. I think Harrison Ford should still play it. Make it as it some time has passed. The man still looks great for his age, and it would add more credibility.
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DJV:
Debt of Honor was indeed the Japanese attack, and the airliner thing. Clark's story was "Without Remorse." Fairly sure about that, will check my books later in the evening.
Animal:
The Smoking Man from X-Files? He matches his role in that series, but not sure how well he passes for an ex-SEAL. But yeah, TSM has a very sinister, don't F with me aura.
mauser
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His character in X-Files was ex commando, ex mercenary, ex assassin, ex everything bad.
If you take a look at old ex SEALS and Green Berets, they dont exactly look like pumped up RAMBOs.
Cigarette man has a stare that very much reminds me of experienced commandos/cancers who know what they are doing, like Clark.
Chavez OTOH, is a young strong upstart, Leguizamo would do cool.
Ryan, Harrison Ford is Ryan.
Ben Affleck is that buffoon from Pearl Harbor.
:cool:
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You got it wrong, Djvu. Ryan was Vicepresident for just a few hours, not for a complete book.
Complete series of Jack Ryan, named in cronologic order. I own all of them and have read'em quite some times.
1-Without remorse (precuel)
2-Patriot Games (Ryan vs Irish terrorists)
3-The hunt of the Red October (Best Clancy novel ever-period)
4-The cardinal of the Kremlin (theme: Star Wars)
5-Clear and Present danger (Drug Wars)
6-Sum of All fears (A-bomb in denver)
7-Debt of honor (War vs Japan)
8-Executive Orders I and II (Ryan as President)
9-The Bear and the Dragon I and II) (last Ryan books so far
in Clear and Present Danger, Ryan gets to be interim Subdirector of the CIA (Intelligence) in substitution of the ill and then dead Admiral Greer.
In Sum of All Fears, Ryan is Subdirector of the CIA, leaves the job at the end of the story.
in Debt of Honor, Ryan returns to the government as National Security Advisor (thanks sikboy:)) As a reward for his good job, President Durling rewards him with the Vicepresidency -vacant because kealty's sex scandal-.
During the ceremony of Ryan's nomination as vicepresident, the 747 crashes into the Capitol killing almost all the government, except for the non-present members of the congress, Alan Trent, and Jack Ryan, who was in an annex building and who immediately steps up as new President.
IMHO, there is not much more to write about Ryan. The Bear and the Dragon was quite nice but the end comes too...suddenly. Kinda reminds me "Red Storm Rising", Clancy's 2nd best book ever (IMHO), wich came to a very very sudden and drastic end...it left me with the impression that he didn't know how to end the story and had to "cut it down" by any mean possible.
Anyway in the "Ryan's universe" there is not much more to be told or done ;). Quite sad because I like Clancy's novels about Jack Ryan -even when I find them too much idealistic and american-centered for my "foreign" taste ;)-, and the other series (Op-Center) is utter BS.
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Originally posted by RRAM
in Debt of Honor, Ryan returns to the government as Assessor of National Security (translation?)
National Security Advisor (official title: Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs I think).
-Sikboy
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thanks :) edited :)
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Almost correct RRAMThe Jack Ryan Series:
The Hunt for Red October (1984) - Ryan is CIA analyst...you know.
Patriot Games (1987) - Jack foils the Irish terrorists, asked to join CIA by Greer, actually a prequel to Red October.
The Cardinal of Kremlin (1988) Star Wars, Jack saves a highly placed spy.
Clear and Present Danger (1989) - Jack is made Acting Dept. Director on Greers death, Cocaine is bad...mmmkay.
The Sum of All Fears (1991) - Terrorists get a bomb, Jack is Dept. Director, booom.
Debt of Honor (1994) Ryan comes out of retirement to be NSA. War with Japan. Sworn in as VP at the end of this book.
Executive Orders (1996) - Ryan is POTUS.
Bear & Dragon? - Struggling through it now....Clancy politics instead of good fiction.
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You're going by publication date right Tah Gut? RRAM is going by story chronology I believe. Although I have no idea if his chronology is correct.
-Sikboy
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I think the decompression chamber "incentive" from Without Remorse could be used on our terrorist captives ... just need a Clark to hold the "interviews"
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Yes, but only the first 2 are out of order chronologically. See my edit above.
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So RRAM had it right, except that where he's from the split the publication of the last two tomes, and he added Without Remorse, which while not a "Jack Ryan" book, is somewhat important to the series (although in that respect, I suppose Rainbow 6 should be in there too... I'm so confused lol)
-Sikboy
(who tried to read several but only thought "Red Storm Rising", and "Hunt for Red October" were very interesting)
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They're butchering the whole plot in the movie because it's not PC to implicate Arabs these days.
I won't be going to the movies for this one.
(http://www.tektalk.net/right2.gif)
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Originally posted by koala
They're butchering the whole plot in the movie because it's not PC to implicate Arabs these days.
I won't be going to the movies for this one.
(http://www.tektalk.net/right2.gif)
Or they don't want to shed anymore bad light on Israel as in the book wasn't the nuclear device off a lost Israeli weapon?
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.
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Originally posted by Sikboy
So RRAM had it right, except that where he's from the split the publication of the last two tomes, and he added Without Remorse, which while not a "Jack Ryan" book, is somewhat important to the series (although in that respect, I suppose Rainbow 6 should be in there too... I'm so confused lol)
-Sikboy
(who tried to read several but only thought "Red Storm Rising", and "Hunt for Red October" were very interesting)
Doh!, yes he did. I stand as a testament to long term loss of short term memory. RRAM.
:o
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lol I have a headache now :eek:
-Sikboy
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So... I still think Afleck is way too young to play Jack Ryan in Sum of All fears.
The same character can only be a young upcoming inteligence officer in so many movies.
AKDejaVu
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Without Remorse is my favorite Clancy. After that, it is a toss up between Clear and Present Danger and The Hunt for Red October.
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Agreed, Animal and DJV about Afleck. When I first saw something on TV about the new movie and saw Ben Afleck as Jack Ryan I thought "wtf?!" Dunno who would be a good substitute though.. Ford fits too well.
mauser
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I'm not big on Affleck. I guess the Clancy movies have entered the Roger Moore phase.
I thought Baldwin was good as Ryan... at least at the point in his life when Red October happened. Ford is good in anything. (K19 looks great!)
Animal, I thought the actor who played Chavez in C&PD was perfect. That was the same character that becomes his son-in-law in Rainbow Six. But John Leguizamo is good, too. He played a convincing commando in Executive Decision (I think that's the title... Kurt Russell, Steven Seagal)
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by Dan Simmons (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author=Simmons%2C%20Dan/002-0870346-3517611):
It's fascinating that in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, the only author in demand on the TV networks was Tom Clancy. As a writer, as a handler of language and character and metaphor, Clancy ranks somewhere slightly below the sixth-graders I used to teach. But he knows something -- about terrorists, about weapons of mass destruction, about the world we live in with all its fanaticism and teeth and cynicism and terror. - The Outsider, Salon (http://www.salon.com/books/int/2002/02/27/simmons/?CP=COR&DN=310?x)
Dan may be on to something...
What he didn't say is that Clancy's latest work in the last few years is absolute toejame. I rather liked Red October, Red Storm and Without Remorse and Patriot Games. I've since lost interest in Clancy now that Ryan is no more than a mouthpiece for Clancy's own political agenda.
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Agreed Sandman.
Bear & Dragon, I bought with anticipation, and still have not finished. I used to get a Clancy novel and devour all 800+ pages in record time. This book is nothing more than politics wrapped around a plot so slow I still can't identify it. I will finish the book someday, but I am disappointed.
OTOH Red Storm Rising was very interesting as a "what if" book, and I think would make an excellent movie. And Hunt for Red Oct... well thats just gooooood.
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There is also going to be a new Sum of All Fears PC game from RSE and Ubi.
It uses the Ghost Recon engine, and you control an FBI HR team.
We shall see...
Gamespot has a brand spankin' new preview up.
http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/0,11114,561095,00.html
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What he didn't say is that Clancy's latest work in the last few years is absolute toejame. I rather liked Red October, Red Storm and Without Remorse and Patriot Games. I've since lost interest in Clancy now that Ryan is no more than a mouthpiece for Clancy's own political agenda.
I couldn't agree more... though... I did like portions of Rainbow 6.
His political views ruined his books some time ago. The last three I rolled my eyes a bit too much on. All except The Bear and the Dragon... that one still has a bookmark on page 200.
Best reads from Clancy:
1. Hunt for Red October
2. Without Remorse
3. Red Storm Rising
AKDejaVu
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OK, I'm a little confused here. In the overall sequence of events, was this before or after Luke and Laura broke up on All My Children? LOL, kidding, just KIDDING!
Cya Up!
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Me either!
Kanthy
Originally posted by koala
I won't be going to the movies for this one.
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"The Bear and the Dragon" should be avoided at all cost. Borderline racist, boring, despite some rather pathetic attempts at being erotic.
"Red Storm Rising" and "Hunt for Red October" is by far my favourite.
Daff
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Dawggus, Luke and Laura were on General Hospital and... huh?... OH MY GOD WHAT"S HAPPENING TO ME !?!?!?!
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"The Bear and the Dragon" wasn't that bad, not my favorite, but a decent read. "Debt of Honor" was more of a dry read (except for the end). The best has to be "Without Remorse". Easily.
BTW- Animal, was watching "Executive Decision" last night and had the same thought about John Leguizamo. He would make an excellent Ding Chavez.
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Affleck SUCKS as ANYTHING he does. Period. And he's younger than what Ryan was supposed to be in "Patriot games", go figure for "the sum of all fears". I wouldn't go to see the movie just because that reason but...
To change a great plot because you want to be politically correct is an absolute shame- either you do the movie, or you don't ,but what you can't do is to put the name of a great book in a roadkill movie.
I can't understand how Clancy has given the "go ahead" on this one...I thought he was going to have some voice in this project (AFAIK he absolutely hated Clear and Present danger and said he won't let another of his books be butchered that way...)
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Looks like a horribly boring movie. Why cant they make a movie that depicts an all out nuclear war between Russi and and the U.S? Show the monsterous tank battles that would be inevitable. Perhaps some huge air battles between Mig 29s and Mig 25s vs F15s, F16s, B52s and B1bs. And of course there would also have to be big naval battles.
Instead, they make some boring movie about 1 or 2 little nuclear bombs going off that is supposed to follow a cheasy novel. Booo.
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Changed the plotline to make Ryan just entering the CIA as an anaylist, so Ryan's age meets Afflecks age. Affleck looks like being the franchises new Ryan, especially if boxoffice does well. I enjoyed his throw-away performance in Armagheddon, but most of his films are garbage, except his Kevin Smith movies.
I personally liked Dafoe as Clark, and Raymond Cruz as Chavez. And I thought Alec Baldwin did a great job in Hunt for Red October, he seemed a more perfect Ryan than Harrison.
The Bear and the Dragon I considered a particulary difficult read, and the paceing slowed right up, until the last quater of the book where it raced to a particulary incredulous ending. It is quite easily the worst of the Clancy "Ryan" books. My favs are Hunt, Rainbow Six, and Redstorm Rising.
Tronsky
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"I can't understand how Clancy has given the "go ahead" on this one"
He might not have anything to say about it..depends on how he sold the rights..
Daff