Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 2Late4U on March 12, 2001, 01:17:00 PM
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The once excellent game is a pile of dog poop, all because HT refuses to address the issue of the completely unballancing of the teams. Its been bad before, but (as I predicted) it has gotten worse and worse to the point where its 3 or more to 1.
So far, as a Rook, I have logged on 4 times in 3 days, and not once had radar. This of course makes the game about as enjoyable as dental surgery as you wander around in a fog of ignorance. Sure taking out Dar is a fine tactical consideration when teams are ballanced, but when one team has 2x the total of the other two teams, they just pork field, fuel and dar so I basically have NO GAME TO ENJOY.
My solution is we ALL join the knights (the 6 of us that havnt yet) and make it just one team flying around porking undefended bases.
(http://home.tampabay.rr.com/strategy/bullcrap.jpg)
[This message has been edited by 2Late4U (edited 03-12-2001).]
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Jeez, I would have loved to found the odds on this clipboard.
The 2 times I was in the game, it was more like 35 Rooks, 70+Knits, and 60+ Bish at best!
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Sky Viper
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The Hellfires?!!! Hey they stole my squad's name!
Seriously, we can't tell people what team to fly for. If we did that, I don't think people would like it too much if they logged on for their designated squad night only to receive a message that says, "Your x country has too many players, so you have to fly for y country." Now suddenly they're fighting against their squaddies. I'd be pretty pissed about that wouldn't you?
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"Holy Underwear!"
John "SUPERFLY" Guytan - Art Director
HiTech Creations
-=HELLFIRE=- SQUAD
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We must be "3" of the "6" rooks left that
2lat4U mentions in his original post...hehehe
It does suck trying to fly around with out at least "sector" counters. I normally do as you do....just log and scan the BB.
RAS (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Seams as if someone really can't find something serious to whine about so you just come up with a thing.
Try flying late nights (late nights european time) and you'll see that knights aren't more then the rest.
It allso changes form tour to tour since some squads change countries.
Sure it can be anoying with Radar down but if you wanna keep it up you need to protect it, knights have HQ strikes inbound quite often but we actaully have people who stop them.
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/jg5wilbus.gif)
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2Late4U, It's sad but HT will continue to lose money over this and he simply doesn't care about it or care to make any changes.
I say we ALL join the Knights LOL!
Mox
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Your credibility went out the window when you resorted to calling the game a big pile of dog poop. If you want to gripe, fine. But is it the folks at HTC's fault that people can join whatever side they want? Don't like Rook? Feeling overwhelmed? Go Bish or Knight.
Don't like it? 1-800-Waah-Waah ext BooHoo (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) [Borrowed from Carrot Top...]
But seriously...what do you *really* want people to do? Seems to me if there are only 6 if you in there, other rooks used that grey matter between their ears and went to another country. Don't happen to see them whinning in here, do we?
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Paul J. Busiere
Aces High Arena handle: BD5Pilot
http://bd5.checksix.net (http://bd5.checksix.net)
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)
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Originally posted by SUPERFLY:
Seriously, we can't tell people what team to fly for. If we did that, I don't think people would like it too much if they logged on for their designated squad night only to receive a message that says, "Your x country has too many players, so you have to fly for y country." Now suddenly they're fighting against their squaddies. I'd be pretty pissed about that wouldn't you?
I know your just a art guy Superfly but it's really simple (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Restrict the teams. Once a team is full it's full till some others leave the country.
If a 70 person squad wants to rotate at the end of a tour, they can't unless a country has a 70 slots open. Or just delete the Rooks so there's only 2 country's and restrict the numbers. Oh wait this would limit Rips air force from getting bigger! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Now this post will be followed by all the people who say they don't gangbang and there is no problem. Old story...
Anyone who plays during primetime that can read will clearly see there is a serious number problem.
Mox
[This message has been edited by Mox (edited 03-12-2001).]
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double post
[This message has been edited by Mox (edited 03-12-2001).]
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Restrict teams? Hell no. Start telling people where and when they can fly & see what happens. Won't be anyone left to whine about...I mean fly against.
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Heh, threads like this remind me of flying for the Knits during the beta days, when sometimes the entire country would wing up into a 5-plane formation and take on the rook/bish masses. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I hardly ever see as large a difference in numbers as the one in your pic, 2late. The teams are pretty balanced when I log in. The exception to this is when a country is about to be reset, of course.
Upon thinking about it, I guess the rooks have been in that situation the most, lately. But I wonder why you give up and log when you realize you don't have dar? One of the most rewarding experiences in this game is launching a counter-attack and averting a sure defeat, IMO.
If a rook pilot immediately logs when they see that dar is out, then I consider them to be conceding the war. What they might not know is that 10 other rooks are doing the same thing, essentially robbing their own country of a potential change in momentum.
Perhaps the knits and bish bomb the rook hq so often because they know the rooks will roll over and play dead soon after?
Please don't flame me, I'm just playing the devil's advocate. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Apache:
Restrict teams? Hell no. Start telling people where and when they can fly & see what happens. Won't be anyone left to whine about...I mean fly against.
If your in a squad you fly as a squad and make decisions as a squad, like moving countries. Would it be a big deal if your 50 person squad wanted to move to a different country and you couldn't because a number restriction? You'd still be flying with your squad, no harm no foul. Worst case, if your squad wanted to move they would have to wait until there was room (i.e. another squad rotated out).
I understand a lot of you enjoy the number advantage and do just about everything you can to increase those numbers (ie Knights) but where do you draw the line? 100 Bish 100 Knights 10 Rooks?
Mox
[This message has been edited by Mox (edited 03-12-2001).]
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Yeah, the numbers game sucks. It was the same in AW. Not much fun (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
I don't think it's HTC's fault, though. It's the fault of the players. If everyone wants to spend all their time chasing one plane on the deck, competing for the kill with four of their buddies, that's what they're gonna do. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Or if the important thing to them is to 'win' the war, the easiest way to win is to overwhelm the enemy. That's what they're gonna do. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Why would anyone want a good fight, since they might risk losing?
~sigh~
anRky
-Ih8ubb
'Get rid of the bucket!'
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not that different from the players telling an entire country they can't fly at all for 45minutes.
Last night the nits either had the hangers at the last 3 (then 2) rook fields down or there were massive numbers of -1Cs floating over the field to vulch. One field had a lancaster over it constantly, and they musta been timing the hangers cause only had about 15 seconds from the time they'd come up til they were flat again.
yup, was a helluva lotta fun being a rook last night.
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Originally posted by Feenyx:
Heh, threads like this remind me of flying for the Knits during the beta days, when sometimes the entire country would wing up into a 5-plane formation and take on the rook/bish masses. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Bingo!
Ebb and flow...and we all get a turn in the bucket.
Mox, I missed your post here when Knits had no dar for 3 consective days in a row last month...where were you then bud? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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well.... I gotta admit, I do feel sorry for the rooks. not so sorry that i would be a martyr and be one but sorry no nthe less. I don't think radar should ever be down completly. I don't think fighter hangers should affect fighters taking off. You should be able to take off till the entire field is down. those things might help. But so long as you have feilds for strat....
lazs
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Originally posted by CavemanJ:
not that different from the players telling an entire country they can't fly at all for 45minutes.
Last night the nits either had the hangers at the last 3 (then 2) rook fields down or there were massive numbers of -1Cs floating over the field to vulch. One field had a lancaster over it constantly, and they musta been timing the hangers cause only had about 15 seconds from the time they'd come up til they were flat again.
yup, was a helluva lotta fun being a rook last night.
Quit sending in "Goon Killers" and will make it painless...one diving P47 from 20k to the goon cannot be capped off by even the biggest AF.
One thing I've noticed, the Knits handle repressed numbers very well with very little whining...wish I could say the same for *some* of you. Grow up, take it like a man.
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Numbers change every day, any of the 3 countries can be out numbered at any time.
So this means that some days your on defence and other days your on offence. As it should be. Change your tactics, learn to fly a defence fighter. Ive seen Mitsu come up a capped field in a Spit and get 11 kills. So he flys Spit for defence and anything else for offence. I use Typhoon for both and i still have fun.
Your relying far to much on radar. With this map just look at your border fields and that where the fight is.
Some of you guys for some odd reason think that during the war the numbers where allways even? huh?? Why?
I wouldnt mind a larger map with a 4th country added.
Dog out......
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I'm all for upping the number of countries from 3 to say....6, yeah six, then we can be like the little bananna republics.
[Milenko wanders off in search of a colonel's uniform with really big shoulder tabs, and a peaked hat]
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For the record, I fly for the rooks, and all I gotta say is..
Bring it ya Beeyatches!
balance smalance. I gave up on balance a while back.
This last TOD, most of the supposed LW squads went knight for a *United Luftwaffe*. Well, we stayed rook, as I remember in the war, the LW was outnumbered, so, we are the Real Luftwaffe!!
Bring it!
(too much coffee this morning)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Bingo!
Ebb and flow...and we all get a turn in the bucket.
Mox, I missed your post here when Knits had no dar for 3 consective days in a row last month...where were you then bud? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Rip, I took about a 3month break from AH (paying for my account the entire time, like a good pilot). I can't comment on what happened while I was AWOL.
I knew you'd throw out that "bucket phrase" soon as I posted . (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
There doesn't have to be a bucket if some checks and balances are added, that' my point.
Load balancing... it's not that hard. If the HiTech crew can design this great sim then I'm sure they can add a simple load balancing routine.
Is it getting warm in here? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Mox
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In a strategic sense, a country's resources would be used up a lot faster with more people flying. As Superfly says, you can't really dictate which country you are able to fly for. It is most frustrating when there are no bases to fly after losing all hangers. I propose a stategic solution. When the numbers get extremely biased for one side (to the point where another side can't fly), create a requirement that bases must be resupplied with manned cargo C-47's. This would at least slow down a blitzkrieg-type attack where every base in sight is overrun especially when radar is down.
MiG
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Originally posted by hblair:
For the record, I fly for the rooks, and all I gotta say is..
Bring it ya Beeyatches!
balance smalance. I gave up on balance a while back.
This last TOD, most of the supposed LW squads went knight for a *United Luftwaffe*. Well, we stayed rook, as I remember in the war, the LW was outnumbered, so, we are the Real Luftwaffe!!
Bring it!
(too much coffee this morning)
Now THAT's the spirit! I can remember about 4 weeks ago, Knits down to 2 bases in the isles, for the 2nd consecutive day in a row,without radar...some Knit guy that has since changed to bish, was saying "Lets all change Bish and let them win the war!"...I spoke up and said HELL NO..KNITS NEVER QUIT!....guess what, 12 hours later we turned the tides around and got the first V1.05 reset in AH. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-12-2001).]
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I'd really like to see HT try a two country layout using bob terrain/map complete with channel for fleet and perk point multiplyer for flying the outnumbered side.
CRASH
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Well,
It's not fun to be gangbanged. I don't mind having a lot of targets but when it gets to the point of where no one will finish off a country, it's horrible. You knits who claim no one whined when you were in the bucket don't seem to remember too well. A few mentions were on the board, as well as some hurt feelings on chan. 1.
When it gets to be as bad as it has been, wouldn't it be more wise for the two countries battling over the carcass to fight each other? Who enjoys fighting an opponent who is already KOed?
(I agree partly with lazs' argument that fighting a non-perk with a perk plane is lame. Fighting a dying country for score is not as noble as going after the healthy one)
Well, we'll see how the rooks fare tomorrow night. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
edit- I too also would be interested in a two country layout. What is the argument against this? (as in, would anyone really care if there were only two sides)
[This message has been edited by Moose11 (edited 03-12-2001).]
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
One thing I've noticed, the Knits handle repressed numbers very well with very little whining...wish I could say the same for *some* of you. Grow up, take it like a man.
Actually Rip, that's not true. The last time you guys were in the bucket, some of the loyal knits posted the exact same clipboard type post, and chirped about the gang-bang here and on Ch.1.
Having said that, the Musketeers actually like not having dar...its soo much more quiet (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Seriously, we are Rook and aren't complaining. Hell we even took some bases yesterday. We of course used our superior planning and flying abilities to achieve this against seemingly overwhelming odds :P So bring it on vulch boys....hehe!
Now, since I find myself in the Dora so much lately, can any of you Waffle types tell me how to get rid of this rash the leather panties are giving me!
Cobra
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How would 2 sides fix the population difference? Same thing would happen. Thats been done elsewhere as well. Didn't work.
Someone earlier mentioned a strat balance. That might be the way to go, but limiting sides and locking sides won't, IMHO.
Cavemanj, have you forgotten your time as a knight during beta so soon? Knights are no different than anyone else when the horde mentality takes over. You of all people should know that.
[This message has been edited by Apache (edited 03-12-2001).]
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Quit sending in "Goon Killers" and will make it painless...one diving P47 from 20k to the goon cannot be capped off by even the biggest AF.
One thing I've noticed, the Knits handle repressed numbers very well with very little whining...wish I could say the same for *some* of you. Grow up, take it like a man.
I wish that the host kept stats so that we could see the ebb and flow of the sides and see how often one side gets it vs others. Baring that I wish people would take pride in skill that they and their side shows and not in how many young rooks change sides to join MAW units swelling the ranks of knightdom never to return.
One day Pyro will accept that 3 is a crowd. Until then make the knights fly I16s. It has an open cockpit for people with giganta head syndrome and should be perfect.
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The biggest problem with this game right now is the prevalance of WHINERS. Sheesh.
Unbalanced sides happens. Get over it. And guess what? It goes around. There are times when Knights are low, and certainly times when Bishes have been the low number. It goes in cycles.
I have logged on to find the country I was flying for way down on numbers and fields.
It happens to everyone at some time. I just never saw the need to whine about it. I knew it would change at some point.
It did, and it always has.
BTW, a 2 sided war wouldnt change squat, there would be plenty, and possibly more times that one side would overwhelm the other side. This would be hopeless without a third country to keep an attack going on a second front, diverting resources.
Dago
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Hee he he he. Two sided war. <shakes head sadly> Given the herd mentality of so many online players how can anyone conceivably think a 2 sided arena would be anything good?.
It'll be a perpetual 150vs50. Don't bother naming the sides as the numbers will toggle back and forth, 150/50 to 50/150 etce etc, every four hours.
Well, when they put in the RPS and it's Jet Day, with the ME-262 it'll be 189 to 11 sides.
-Westy
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Lol, you got it Westy. Right on the money.
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Wasn't side balancing supposed to be one of the applications of the perk point system?
Hightech clearly stated that in one of his posts - pilots on an outnumbered side would get a perk point multiplier.
So just wait until the appropriate release.
miko
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Dago, Westy: My point is, if a team cannot gangbang there wont be any "turn in the bucket". I know there will always be some gangbanging but "the current numbers are so off it’s not even worth clicking on the Aces High icon anymore except to cancel your account". quoted by a close friend who has been a subscriber since AH went pay.
Eliminate the ability to "make" a country be the country "in the bucket" and you eliminate the problem in a sense stopping the problem before it ever has a chance to be a problem.
I don't know if a 2 country war is the answer but frankly it wouldn't matter how many country's there were IF there was some load balancing etc.
I'm only concerned with the grossly unbalanced numbers, I don't have a problem when the teams are say plus or minus 20 spread across all the country's. "All" country's being the key word in the above statement.
Mox
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Big supprise Dago is a knight...lol.
Its even honest. wink wink wink.
move 50 hog Cs to field 3 pronto. I saw a hanger up for a minute.
Lets park 3 lancs over the rook hq and city before reset...that would be fun..
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anyone even consider the 2 sided war? no?reason ? none . ht dont like it i guess . man i hope ww2 online dosent suck.
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Is this the sissy thread of the month or what?
All the squeakers stackin up like cordwood!
Ugh....
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Funny how the people crying "whiners" are not flying Rook.
This weekend was a farce, logging on and finding no fields to take off from, or ones that still had hangers were all CAP'd. I got to ride out a reset where the Knits still had cons over the strategic targets and immediately hit everything again to take it out. Then the rush was on to take the most rook fields and get another reset.
Why bother kidding anyone that it's been a 3 country game, it was 2 country all weekend with the rooks being the whipping boys and trying to play spoiler for one of the other sides.
Sure, "what comes around goes around", but that's just a poor excuse for doing something to help the situation.
-Soda
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One of the fixes might be no changing sides
once a tour begins...no hoping countries to get perks for resets..
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Perk the 51 D & B models...that will solve everything!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Ice
13thTAS
It's not the Big that kill the Small, but the Fast that kill the Slow!
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There should be a way to increase structure "hardness" for things like the HQ down to field AAA for the under dog team. Perk prices could also be lowered, as HTC is planning to do.
<S>IC
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This game had the same problem when JG2 was so big and they decided to move every month .
Seems the same problem again all over again , and it's not JG2 now .
They ( the rotating squads ) move and mess up the numbers . I just bet they are "never" in the so called "bucket" .
Maybe I am wrong but it looks that way to me . Looks like they are always in the numbers as they are making the biggest imbalance happen in the game .
My 5 cents .
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Flying for Rooks.
When I was on last night, the numbers was
95 - 76 - and 38 rooks.
2 bases left A44 and A7
Flew 3 missions, and really kept my eyes busy
because of the overwhelming odds.
I just knew that enemy buffs would be
dropping on the last 2 bases, So If I could
survive the climb, the wait would no be long.
1st. mission, survived, barely ( in 109 )
2nd. mission, 2 buffs killed ( in P47 )
3rd. mission, 1 buff kill ( in p51 )
So despite the odds I actually had a great
time. And You get more pleasure flying
a succesful mission, when you are outnumbered.
No problem here, numbers are fine with me.
Unless offcause we are unable to launch any
planes.
mrniel
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Originally posted by -towd_:
anyone even consider the 2 sided war? no?reason ? none . ht dont like it i guess . man i hope ww2 online dosent suck.
Same here Towd....then we won't have to hear yer bulltoejam!!
My 30 bucks stay here because I like the game and I don't care about my score. Anybody who's been here for a time knows what it's like on both sides of the gangbang.
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<S> All, Top o' the mornin' to ya (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I'm in one of those 'supposed' LW squads that rotated out of Rookland to Knits last tour. We (KG200) did this to see if the proposed Knight Axis Group would pan out........so far, it has more than panned out, it is great. The call goes out for escorts for our bombers on the LW channel, and within minutes, we have good leather clad Jagdflieger overhead (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) an unheard of occurence while we flew for Rooks, occasionaly a fighter or two may have tagged a long and gawked at our formation, and mebbe even drag the odd con through..but co-operation?? he he, yeah right.
So we stay where we are.
As for the numbers problem, I have to admit there has been some pretty lopsided teams at times, and the Knights seem to have more most of the time, I am sure that will change once the 'new version trial accounts' have left and everything settles back to 'normal' again.....no biggy, it happens to everyone.
In the 10 or so months I have been playing AH, I and my squad have flown for all three countries [about six of those ten months were as Rooks] and the Knights seem to have it in the bag as far as actually understanding and using the strat features of the game to their advantage goes, and for that matter, how to defend against strategic strikes, rather than only the tactical ones.
Before you jump all over me for Rook bashing, or for being one of those 'bomb the FHs at all frontline fields, and the fuel and ammos at all secondary ones......make 'em work for it' kind of people.....I pay $60 Aus/month to enjoy the strategic features of this game, it's the main reason I brought myself and the rest of the squad over from WB for you all to shoot at, a couple of Knit JG guys asked us to join the KAG, and to top it off, Knits are strat minded........as CO of a LW strategic bomber unit....who would you fly for?
As far as bringin' it on goes.......anytime ya bunch of furballin', no dar, what-does-strat-mean? dweebs!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
They used to say 'theres nothing to fear but fear itself'....then the Knits got organised, and the KAG was born (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Now there are hordes of German planes streaming across the sky, black leather clad pilots skoffing sauerkruat and sausages, washing it down with gallons of great beer, and finishing up with a buxom blonde or three.....*ahem*, sorry, got a little carried away there, but hey, sounds like fun to me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
<S> Blue
Kampfgeschwader 200
'Airial Warfare is the delivery of high explosive upon the enemy, all else is merely support to this end'
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How about a forth country...
THE QUEENS
That way all the wussie whiners can go there.
The problem with most rooks is you have the squads trying to take bases and they need help from the "unaffiliated" but what happens is you get a bunch of dudes in spitfires with no ord circlin the base while jabo and ack straffers are desperately needed. I dont know how many times we get a bases down to the just fh or just couple of osties and 15 guys circling with no ord or no desire or maybe courage or maybe skill to dive in and get some fer rookland. I flew 2 tours with 1st/ag Bishlanders (S! Hangtime) and jabo was a must. I started tour 3 as a rook and will stay.... heck I took on 2 tempests in a 109f last night and had a heck of a good time duking it out... I pinged 1 but they got me and was S! all round. Plus you get the token guy sittin in tower yellin "HQ HQ HO" watchin the whole thing not once uppin to do his duty.
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Pray not for an end to the slaughter...but for VICTORY!!!
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Originally posted by airspro:
Maybe I am wrong but it looks that way to me . Looks like they are always in the numbers as they are making the biggest imbalance happen in the game .
You are.
-SW
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Comments like "...its just your turn in the bucket" and "...there will alway be a gangbang, stop whining" are justifications of those on the top of the dogpile.
Most 2 sided online games balance themselves even without balancing limits.
This community does not have far to look to find a working solution.
Spend 1 evening in a team HTH arena to see how players even things out "on there own" in a 2 sided fight.
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Bluedog, think about it. You went from a country that often struggles to get 10(1/4 of our pilots) guys together to take a field to one that can put 50 guys at a field. Bombers are intended to work in an airsuperiority enviroment. You are getting support cause you have rediculous numbers.
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Gotta be honest about this one, I really felt bad for the Rooks last night and would have been highly irritated myself had I been one.
One thing I did notice was throughout the entire episode, all I saw on the Knit radio buffer was things like "C'mon Lets get the Reset" with lots of peple asking what to do as opposed to TELLING people what to do.
Now, to make matter's worse and really piss some people off (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif), I remember one fine day last TOD while I WAS flying ROOK and we were VERY close to a Reset. The problem was there were about 10 Chiefs to 2 Indians comparitively speaking and one of the other sides ended up with the reset. Call it what you will, but just maybe maybe maybe if a certain few Rooks would agree to work together rather than pursue their own percieved "Better" agenda, then the Rooks wouldn't have a bucket to worry about.
Just an observation, and either way, being Knit or Rook is still better than wearing the cloak of a dirty stinky Bish :P
SwampRat
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Solution:
Larger maps. 3x the size of the current or more, 50 fields per team. AW big pac was a map of this kinda size. Even when numbers were out of balance, the battle fronts were large enough that a player could find a field to up from at any time, and could find a small fight. Resets are much more uncommon, make the reset worth more if need be.
Sure the horde attacking the last 2 bases will still happen, but not twice in one day.. hell maybe not twice a week! People logoff when they get in the bucket, people whine, people change sides. With a larger map they won't have to as often. The more people in the arena, the more people will be attracted to the arena, its dollars and sense.
BTW anyone else notice that there was no increase in MA #'s with 1.06 in comparison to 1.05...
SKurj
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I was rook last month, will be rook again soon. Our squad rotates. It has nothing to do with numbers. Only the day of the month.
Unfortunately, it seems our squad is on the same rotation as another squad or two.
I think we hold off our rotation for one extra month so we can prevent a large group moving at once. Maybe this will help.
I dont state anything because of what we are doing or facing, or being a knight right now, its just facts as I see it. Side balances change, and whiners are whiners. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Dago
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A larger map would not solve the problem. It would just take a little longer to cause a reset. It would also have the adverse effect of "thining out" the MA.
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All countries take their turn getting the "bang". It just seems worse when you're at the receiving end. Even though ya get killed alot the victories you get are exciting. Killing 1, 2 or 3 bad guys while you are outnumbered and out gunned is something to be proud of. Look to overcome the diversity and trimuph over the gangbanging hordes.
Have a nice day and enjoy for it is a virtual device for entertainment!! Nothing less, nothing more.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Swager
On Leave 3./JG2~Richthofen~[/i]
"Enjoy yourselves now... for I'll be back"
3./JG2 (http://members.home.net/winyah999/3jg2.htm)
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What Swager said.
Must say I feel for the rooks; being constantly without dar is no fun at all.
But, been there myself, and going there again.Next month squads rotate and number change.
Not long ago, the term "Bishrook" was coined because of the constant (and verifiable by stats) banging of the knights. We were fighting two fronts, sometimes with equal numbers, sometimes with less, sometimes with more. And our HQ paid the price.
As Rip said, do not surrender. Duke it out and it is quite possible that the tide will turn.
One of the problems is this map - because the center is water, the fronts are restricted fo only a few bases on each side. But it's still way better than the cv one. I personally liked the one before the cv one very much, but it ain't coming back because of those ships.
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsanta.tripod.com/stSanta.jpg)
"Live to pull, pull to live"
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Gentlemen,
I fly Bishop and in a P-51 only squadron. I have been here since Day 1 as many of you have. I do feel however that the ROOKS post here are not WHINES but reality as of late. I have watched the other two countries NOT put them out of there misery and reset quickly. Sometimes this is taking a day or so with them just down to a couple of bases. THIS ISN'T FUN FOR ANY COUNTRY IF IT HAPPENS OVER AND OVER.
I think this may be because of land grabs amoung the remining squads so they can win the war. I notice Kights and Bishops fighting each other over ROOK bases and fights between Bishops and Knights at other field for the supremicy for the win. This ended up in ROOKS coming in to the game and not wanting to get the lunch handed to them and leaving. Or ROOKS (rightfully) being upset because the not only didn't have numbers but the one country OWNED all the bases around there city HQ ammo barracks flak ..etc. and milkrunned it. Gentlemen everyone has there day in the barrel and I have been there many times myself. I never have made a post like this before for any other country. Think about it.. I don't see it as ROOK WHINING..it's a legitigate concern. I see it as a gameplay issue. Thinking of a way to resolve it though... hmmmm
Thunder
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I was on when the numbers weren't too far off from what is shown above. I was flying out of A50 fighting the two or three people that would occasionally head toward that base. There were no more than 8 total people between 50 and the base south of it.
No matter what the numbers, there's always a fight to fit your mood.
Of course, when you're down to two bases, things get a little more complicated. Just ask me how I know.
AKDejaVu
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Boy, ya know this thing would actually hold a lil' water if you guys would post screenshots of who of the squads that rotated are online when these numbers are wildly mismatched.
You know, so you could say for certain whether it's the "large" squads rotating or not.
I've been in situations like that, and my squad rotates. All of my squad has been in this situation. I think every country has.
Talk about a hissy fit.
Grab your panties, unwedge them from your bellybutton then take 'em off and climb into some boxers or briefs and get some damn jeans on instead of wearing those skirts.
-SW
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Originally posted by Virage:
A larger map would not solve the problem. It would just take a little longer to cause a reset. It would also have the adverse effect of "thining out" the MA.
Virage, its already proven to work, and the MA could use some thinning out. The swarm still congeals together, just those that don't wish to be assimilated have the opportunity to stay remote.
SKurj
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I don't know why theres 3-counry and not 2 or 4 countries...
but theres one side missing or too much.
Though, I would probably prefer 4-country war, since that wouldn't cause one big mass furball in the middle (tried & true - Dawn of Aces, part I: early beta)
I liked 4-country back in WarBirds.. though, people also had brain unit installed back then.
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"A larger map would not solve the problem, it would just take longer to get the reset"
And this is bad? Ah I see, this isn't a numbers whine, it's an anti-tactical Whine.
(No it's not called strat, there's nothing strategic about what goes on)
Admit it you just want your unkillable bases to launch your 24-7-between-the-fields furball.
Restrict the option to join the side I've been on since I started? Yeah, I guess $30 a month could be spent elsewhere.
Oh and one more item, To those of you screaming about fair play and "honor" go play DOA, chivalry died during the First World War.
You might not like a 5-vee-1 fight when you're the 1, but I really don't hear any objections when you're the 5.
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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"
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Feel free to use this link whenever someone recommends changing to two sides. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
http://agw.dogfighter.com/agw//Forum3/HTML/018829.html (http://agw.dogfighter.com/agw//Forum3/HTML/018829.html)
bowser
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lol - i got a laugh signing on 1st time today and the 1st thing i see is a "why this game sucks" post
i wouldn't know what to think if i signed on one day and didn't see a "why this game sucks" thread
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Would this work:
Automatic team balancing when u log on. But squad members would have the option to join another squadie on another team if they want.
This would address the balance issue without disrupting squad play.
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Originally posted by Dago:
Unfortunately, it seems our squad is on the same rotation as another squad or two.
I think we hold off our rotation for one extra month so we can prevent a large group moving at once. Maybe this will help.
Dago
That will help for sure . Am glad I wasn't the only one that sees whats happening .
Ya and SK I still don't really think I am to far off base my thinking .
spro
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SKurj wrote:
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Larger maps. 3x the size of the current or more, 50 fields per team. AW big pac was a map of this kinda size. Even when numbers were out of balance, the battle fronts were large enough that a player could find a field to up from at any time, and could find a small fight.
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No, I don't like this idea at all. I've seen these huge maps in action. Big Pac was so large that if you wanted to find an undefended base to capture, it was no problem. And since the masses just want to capture bases, that's just what they did. Every country on a different side of the map taking poorly or un-defended bases. No fun at all. And from what I've discovered of most AH players, they're bigger on landgrabbing than those in AW.
These AH maps are just the perfect size, and this latest one is great in that it funnels the fighting so that there is a lot of conflict over the bases. (although the bases *are* too far apart)
The problem is with the players. Most don't want a capable enemy. Instead of a good fight, they want to boost their puny egos by shooting fish in a barrel (excuse me, 'bucket').
anRky
-Ih8ubb
'Get rid of the bucket!'
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Originally posted by airspro:
Ya and SK I still don't really think I am to far off base my thinking.
spro
I'm guessing this was pointed at me since Skurj didn't say anything to you..
Yes you are far off base on your thinking.
Oh but wait.. *MY* experience doesn't matter, just yours and the ones that want to make an excuse for why the sides are uneven.
Nevermind the fact that MAG is Knights along with JG54 and JG2... no.. it's gotta be those dirty rotten rotaters.
If you think it's a few squads rotating countries, do me a favor. Sit on your thumbs and rotate on that.
-SW
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Sorry I miss spelled your name SW .
I do think it does unbalance the sides when two or three larger squads make their move . Then after a bit it will start to even out again .
But the problem as I see it is that it happens each and every month . So this time it's the rook's , next it will be ?
But as you say I am wrong so
I just will shut up and rotate on my thumb's for the rest of the month and wait and see what happens next tour I guess .
Sincerely
spro
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Just a thought - Rebuild times connected to % online and/or % of bases, ie. if we Rooks were down to just 3 or 4 bases and only had 15% of the on-line population and the Nasty Bishops (with 40 bases & 70% of the pilots) take out our city and radar (come on just try it!) the dar is out for 30 min. But if the Rooks were to somehow get the Bish city and dar - lights-out for many hours or until the numbers become more balance. This could also work with base (hanger & AA) rebuild times, the outnumbered countries hangers could rebuild in 5 to 10 min & AA in 15.
This could be tied to some magic number, the more pilots you have the less (unseen) workers that you have to rebuild. And if you have low numbers of pilots the more (unseen) workers to rebuild your bases and such.
Just a thought (Maybe too hard to code)
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Although I think it inevitable that one side gets unbalanced, I think it unfair to blame the game designers. What could they do to fix it? The only true solution is to totally remove all strat. portions of the game- i.e. not allow anyone to damage enemy fields, hangers, etc. Then there would be no use for bomber at all. Sure, it's unpleasant when you have virtually no fields left and those are being vultched. But that is human nature. Here I will attract supreme flaming, but AH seems to draw a reasonable fraction of quite unpleasant people, people that want to ruin your enjoyment of the game; people that want to insult you on these BBS and use obnoxious and often obscene language on ch1, call you a whiner wussie, and generally make your stay on this game as unpleasant as humanly possible. Whenever a side gets down to a few fields I hear about three times as many calls to "make em suffer" by vultching the remaining fields, as opposed to actively moving to a rapid reset. So it is true that you are suffering, but it is because the other players want you to suffer. It's not under direct control of the game designers.
That being said, someone should apply the (real) field of game theory to intelligently discuss the effect of 2 vs 3 vs 4 sides. I don't know game theory so I can't contribute, but it might be that more than 2 sides leads to the unbalanced conditions. I would hand wave an argument like this: due to random fluctuations one side gets down to measurably fewer fields than the other two. Now the other two sides see "blood in the water" and, wanting to dominate or reset, both attack the weakling. That quickly leads to one side being virtually shut down. Maybe having only two sides would minimize that. I don't know, but someone who knows statistics should be able to tell us.
715
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Phew, weren't us knights getting pasted this evening! Especially you AK fellas! hehe...dang you Nimitz, I ALMOST had my gear up a few times! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
In case you missed the fun this evening....
(http://www.checksix.net/roster.gif)
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Paul J. Busiere
Aces High Arena handle: BD5Pilot
http://bd5.checksix.net (http://bd5.checksix.net)
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)
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I only really have two issues:
1. It is too easy to kill dar for an entire country. This sucks. People log off. 'nuff said. See some of the ideas like chaining radar or leaving sector counters in places close to active bases.
2. It is too easy to remove fighters from a base. More hangars or revetments or something could solve the problem. Being able to shut down fighters at a field by dropping two hangars is pretty easy. IMO, it should be more difficult to do this than it would be just to take the base. Sure, it should be possible, it should just take more work than a single Ar 234.
Pyro mentioned in the past using the perk system to help balance things. I think this would really help. I think you could do something like make any country down to 4 bases get all planes for free, it could help turn the tide. Another potential solution is to start mucking with the multipliers as the numbers change, so that the only way to get perkies is to either attack a country with close to equal numbers, or force the reset. If we make it a disadvantage to gangbang, it will help change things. Currently gangbanging will give you all positive feedback, so it's encouraged.
The perk system could really help here, along with some other minor changes like changing the radar.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. When radar goes totally down, people log off. That sucks, and it's not good for the game IMHO. Make hitting the HQ have some impact, but don't remove all radar.
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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer
A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/) for AH articles and training info!
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Like I said sometime ago, distributing country's factories would help this issue. It is not possible to knock out whole fuel or flak production by one strike to factory, it would take many mission to different targets.
Effects:
- One massive strike cannot destroy country's fuel, ammo or flak manufacturing or radar capability.
- More strategic targets for bombers to bomb instead of attacking bases.
Just got me an magnificent idea! Off to feedback forum...
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jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolsevismus!
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The southern coutry is extremely poorly laid out. It is just ripe for taking. Especially if you have to try to defend it agianst suppior numbers. Other then that I think that the map is the best one yet.
Course I have only seen the south except for 1 hour in the north.
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You wanna hear some whining? Implement the following solution. Jeez....the answer is so SIMPLE its right in front of us!!!
Why not add a new perk point modifier that takes into account the relative numbers in the arena? For example, the new formula to calculate perk points would be:
Mission perk points x [(total numbers in arena /3) / your country's numbers]
So if all the countries are equal in numbers you get the standard number of perk points. If your country is outnumbered, you get BONUS perkies! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
And to put the icing on the cake, if you are heavily populated, you get fewer perkies!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
This would also do a good job of modelling the relative difficulty of getting the kills.
Another benefit is that it would give people who are more interested in perkies and have no country affiliations to come over to the underdog to get more perkies. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
THIS IS THE ANSWER GUYS! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-Ding
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Originally posted by Lephturn:
Another potential solution is to start mucking with the multipliers as the numbers change, so that the only way to get perkies is to either attack a country with close to equal numbers, or force the reset. If we make it a disadvantage to gangbang, it will help change things. Currently gangbanging will give you all positive feedback, so it's encouraged.
EXACTLY! Shame I had to read this entire thread to find this great suggestion. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Ding
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Dingy and Leph for Congress!!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
If it can be done it's a great idea. The lowest manned side gets full value for points while the other sides get a % less of the regular, full perk value based on how much more of a % they outnumber the lowest side?
Presuming that the side imbalance is a direct consequence of people being driven to earn points.
-Westy
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I agree with Lephturn
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Lots of things to ponder here. Maybe award points for the speed of successive field captures?
Dingy has made an excellent point, an arena balance multiplier. That's a very good idea, IMO. That might do it by itself.
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Good idea Dingyski....as always keeping the clear head <S>. Would take it a step further, how about allowing our C47's to "resupply" the various strategic complexes. They DID do other things (like haul cargo) besides carrying drunks around.
This would give the side being layed to waste (read: Rooks of late....though each side takes its turn in the barrel) at least a fighting chance to get certain things back online and working in a reasonable amount of time. It would also give the side laying the waste more targets to shoot at if they want to keep those strategic facilities down for a longer length of time. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Just a thought....thanks again for the great idea's Leph and Dingyski-bob !!!
RAS (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Good idea. C47 resupply. For example, if you could sneak a c47 to the downed vh of the attacked field, it does an immediate rebuild.
Hmmm.
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Re: increased perk points for countries that are outnumbered. There are some people who don't care about perk points one way or another. And are people who do care really going to go to a country that is being vultched to try to get an increase in perk points per kill (now very difficult to get because you are outnumbered)?
Re: resupply by C47. Air Warrior had that over ten years ago and it's a good idea. But it usually only worked when a field was closed and then abandoned for a long time by the enemy. (Rebuild time was very long unless a C47 resupplied.) Trying to get a C47 into a field that is CAP'd is nearly impossible.
I think the best idea put forth here is making it harder to a) kill the radar and b) kill the hangers at each field. For a) perhaps it is more realistic to kill the radar factory and then have to kill each individual radar to remove radar coverage in each area (killing the factory shouldn't all of the sudden make all operating radars nonfunctional, it should only prevent resupply of radar components). And as pointed out having more revetments and hangers at each field would slow down field destruction. But then how are the buff fans going to like those changes?
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Brilliant ideas Dingy and Lephturn. How on earth did you ever come up with an idea like that? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/008633.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/008633.html)
And only 5 hours later too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11
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I wonder why a countries complete radar system colapses when HQ's command and control is knocked off. Wouldn't that just impare the communication between between bases? I would expect that if I was at feild X on the west side of the map, I wouldn't be able to see DAR from Eastern bases. Each feild has its own radar dish, or is that just the satelite uplink that recieves the radar input from the big ol HQ radar array? What do you think?
Liz
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Knights got our butts kicked tonight and Rooks took 4 fields at one time , I was amazed at their cooperation . Knights were whining like girls (most were not true loyal knights aka rotators) So we all get our turn . One thing we don't need is more rules .
[This message has been edited by paintmaw (edited 03-14-2001).]
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Perk increase to the outnumbered side is ok, but it still doesn't solve the problem of having 2 fields and not being able to up at all, so here's another option (fully compatible with Leph's idea):
SURRENDER!
Give the option to the players of the country being gangbanged to force a reset when they are down to, say, 3 fields... that would REALLY force the other countries to take care of the last fields before they actually surrender (come to think of it, that did happen when the US and USSR where closing on in Berlin...)
If 2/3 of the country players vote for a surrender, the reset takes place.
What do you think?
Daniel, aka CyranoDB
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I just want to make one point:
This whole Perk multiplier idea wasn't mine, or Dingy's, or Jekyll's either. It was Pyro's. He mentioned the possibility of using the perk system to help balance the arena like this some time ago. I'm just bringing it up again now, since it seems that on this map we really need it.
And yes, not everyone pays attention to the perk points. However, a lot of folks DO pay attention to the perk system, enough to have an affect. Just look at the number of C202's and such being flown now and compare it to how many were flown pre-perk system. It does have an effect on balance.
I submit that the perk bonus from "winning the war" is part of the PROBLEM right now. It encourages both sides with larger numbers to see who can rape the smaller side fastest and get the perk bonus from the reset. It is a good idea, but it needs some kind of a perk multiplier to balance things out and help encourage the larger sides to fight each other more. Basically, what I'm looking for is a situation where the only reason to fight the little guy is to reset him and get the bonus, so if things are more even in terms of fields, many will tend to hunt the larger side to get more perkies.
Make it an advantage to fight the more numerous foe, and take away some of the advantages to setting up a tight vulch on the least numerous side. Give the outnumbered side a bonus for fighting at a disadvantage.
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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer
A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/) for AH articles and training info!
[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 03-14-2001).]
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lep... I have been around flight sims for many years but am still a perennial newbie. I of course agree with your making radar unkillable and revetments but.... the perk sytem sucks. It is too complex, convoluted and unfair now. adding more complexity to it will just make it worse. Seeing a few guys trying and dying in 202's is not worth it. Maybe others care about gaining perk points but the guys i talk to only want a fun fite.
My squadies and I fly for the green guys with the little knight chess piece. We picked em because they seemed to average out about the most even. Not outnumbered too much and not overnumbered too much. This has worked out pretty well. We don't like getting gng banged because it isn't fun. we log when that happens. I don't like fighting over scraps either. We don't take bases or help take bases except by accident. We certainly DO NOT EVER KILL FIGHTER HANGERS. We don't care one bit what country wins the war and we only fight red guys. We go where there are good fights not where some little Napoleon thinks we are needed.
There is no point system that would make me want to fly for rooks when they are down to a base or two that still has hangers and no radar and gangbanged 4 vs 1 every time you go up. that is simply a fact. I have no interest in chasing down a lone fighter with 8 friendlies )i do it because I'm bored).
Strat guys can really ruin peoples fun the way the arena is set up now. A lot of guys will never care about strat. I for one will never want to "organize" (wait around) in the hanger with 20 other guys to escort (do nothing) and then club a defensles or nearly defensless field into submission. What a yawn and.... So long as strat consists so heavily on ruining gameplay.... You will have problems.
lazs
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Last night was the Assassins squad night. We started out about 9pm central time cooperating with the rest of the rooks in taking the knight bases just east of our HQ. Then we had them rolled back to the eastern mtn range, thats 4 or 5 fields. After that we rolled a vehicle mission into 44 (fun as a barrel of monkeys). Looking north, there were huge sector bars around the knight HQ. We were psyched for reaming the knights but good, when zigrat started voicing some dissatisfaction with the easy takes. It was proposed by him for us to take the bish island field (A53?) from A18 (our island field) using Arados, 190-D9's. We were able to knock down all the structures and take the field very fast, waited til the hangars were up and launched a mission for one of the shore bases. Took it soon afterwards.
All in all, was a blast last night! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Lasz,
You are entitled to your own opinions and flight style but I believe there are plenty others who do not find the perk system complicated, who do care for perk points and who would be willing to switch sides because it benefits their perk gathering ability. Most people will agree with you that gangbanging is no fun but would rather see some ability to control it than loggin entirely. Thats the whole purpose of giving a perk point multiplier to players based on numbers.
Now really, who are you kidding by using the argument that the perk system is too complicated? Its quite simple...you fly less frequently flown planes, you get more perk points. Thats it. The multiplier is just as simple.
We all know by now that you are using that excuse to hide behind since you really dont want a perk system at all. Fine. Again you are entitled to your opinion but it is a position of minority.
Quit beating around the bush and just say what you mean, instead of hiding behind this piss poor argument....sheesh...perk system too complicated?? Gimme a break!
-Ding
-Ding
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Jeez what a bunch of old women we fly with (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
you getting banged? live with it!
Organise a break out! use some of that grey matter in your head!
if you got 2 bases left grab 20 of you and attack! No defender can suppress 20 angry organised attackers and this is the key.I flew with rooks for a tour and noticed a severe lack of interest in missions i set up.I was really pleased to get back to knits i can tell you.If the rooks dont organise when the numbers are down you will get beaten simple as that.
I have played when there was 2 bases and no dar and have fought tooth and nail to break out from this situation and have been successfull now and again.If you just want to fly to a point in space and dogfight and ignore the bigger picture you gotta expect to be down to 1 or 2 bases right?
hazed
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Lazs, I used to think along the same lines you do. I flew fighters and all that other stuff was a waste of time. About 5-6 months ago I started doing some bomb runs and dropping eggs from fighters. If you try it you might be surprised at how much fun you have. I know I was.
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nothin will be done for gameplay , ar at least nothin ever has. 400 kn buffs are common laser guns on buffs . for what ? so we can have porked bases . yawn. hog c is still plain wrong in guns and lack of a bad flip stall . no use tellin um they just dont respond. other games are commin
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dingy... first of all you have no idea if I am in the "minority" or not. second of all... you are wrong about the complexity of the perk system. I will bet you that you (or anyone else).........
Can't tell how many perk points (unless it's zero and not even then all the time) that...you just got on that last sortie untill you actually check. You are full of it. Every other thread on this board is some new and convoluted way to use the idiotic perk system to reward or punish one behavior or another and every single one of em makes the system even more complex.
Talk about saying what you really mean!!! Every one of those threads basically says "my style or preference is not being given enough "perk" points" or, "people need to be punished because they are not flying the way I think they should" Lie to yourself if you want but not to me.
hblair... sorry tried it numerous times. The guys I was with (who talked me into it) were all a twitter about how much fun it was but I was bored toejamless. It is a birth defect. I was born with no boredom tollerance.
lazs
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Lazs, he deams you as being part of the minority because you seem to be the only one continually downing the perk system.
You complain of complexity, yet surely even you understand that if you kill an F4u-1C with an F4u-1D, you are going to get more perk points than if you do it in a Tempest. You also must know that you are going to get even more perk points if you shoot down a Tempest with a c.202.
You want formulas for exact calculations? Is that the kind of understanding that would cause the confusion to be avoided? Seems to be a tad bit more than the majority of the arena cares about.
The truth be told.. bottom feeder planes have not seen a drastic reduction in use except for a few of the LW variants. The worst plane (C.202) has seen twice the action in the 5 days since perk planes have been released than it did the entire week prior. The SpitV has also seen an increase in usage. Pretty weird eh?
Most things that aren't supporting arguments are just getting left out or overlooked. The truth be told, there really isn't enough data to support either way right now. It may be a good time to take a valium and chill out in front of the tube (pc) for a bit.
AKDejaVu
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I'm with Deja on this one.
Just let it play out.
Me thinks some folks just protest too much.
So far, AH has accomodated all styles as far as I can see.
The furballer, the strat-minded, the mission oriented minded, the combined-arms types, the single-plane types, the lone-wolfs.
Its been stated before (alot) but its what we do with the game that makes it fun, not what the game does with us.
Cobra
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Originally posted by -towd_:
nothin will be done for gameplay , ar at least nothin ever has. 400 kn buffs are common laser guns on buffs . for what ? so we can have porked bases . yawn. hog c is still plain wrong in guns and lack of a bad flip stall . no use tellin um they just dont respond. other games are commin
Oh towd, you're are truly comical! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(BTW, you seem to LIKE that Chog, you have 137 flights in it in 4 tours! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
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towd is AcesHigh "Eeyore"
"won't matter" "it'll never work" "thank you for noticing me..."
-Westy
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deja.. I wholeheartedly agree that there is not enough data to support many arguements but.... Your own data shows that even with the most determined and experienced pilots trying their best in the bottom planes (including the spit5)..... The bottom 10 or so planes are 2-3 times more likely to be killed that the top planes. You can drastically improve your odds for survival by simple plane choice. More so than at any other time. I don't know how this will affect gameplay or plane usage but it seems pretty obvious. Also, we now have 2 scoring systems that are not in sync. One used for ranking and one used for perking. They clash with each other.
And yes... you can sorta guess how many perkies you will get in a sortie but... you will probly be wrong. I contend that even the most anal retentive couldn't tell you what he just got on the last sortie without looking it up afterwards. Now... every style advocate with and ax to grind wants his particular skill rewarded with a new and perk system.
lazs
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Towd won't ever be truly happy until that last second of Armageddon, when he's finally proven right.
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oh... deja, maybe it really is a simple system. Using your examples.... Exactly how many perkies would I get if i shot down a F4UC with a d? How bout if i had to ditch? what about a C with a 202? How bout ditching after killing a tempest and a 1d with a 202? Take your time.
lazs
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djv, lazs, no guessing needed. Its all right here.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/105hangar.html#perks (http://www.hitechcreations.com/105hangar.html#perks)
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oh... deja, maybe it really is a simple system. Using your examples.... Exactly how many perkies would I get if i shot down a F4UC with a d? How bout if i had to ditch? what about a C with a 202? How bout ditching after killing a tempest and a 1d with a 202? Take your time.
F4u-1c from a 202, 5 points, 6.25 if you land it. 202 from a 1c is .2 points, .25 if you land it.
1d I can't remember the value on, I want to say 20, in which case 2 if you shoot down a 1c in it, 2.5 if you land it. Using same value, a 1D is worth .5 from a 1C, .6125 if you land it.
Tempest and 1D from a 202 will be 8.75 (50/8 + 50/20), 10.94 if you land it.
The two most underrated planes are the 109s both F4 and G2, rated at 40 each (only 202 is higher)
{Edit - saw tempest and thought typhoon. Fixed}
[This message has been edited by Fatty (edited 03-14-2001).]
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Originally posted by Westy:
towd is AcesHigh "Eeyore"
"won't matter" "it'll never work" "thank you for noticing me..."
-Westy
SWOM'ing!!!! (Spitting up Water On Monitor)
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Air Warrior used to have one base per country that was unkillable- the ack, hangers, and I think radar could not be taken down. The reset condition was when all of the rest of that countries fields were taken, yet that one field was always available to launch from and always had local radar. That might be a possible solution but I recall it was not perfect: the remaining unkillable field was always surrounded by enemy and it was hard to climb out to useful altitude.
715
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well there.... How much simpler could it be? It could be explained in a couple of pages easily. I'm sure that using a simple guide of a couple of pages and a calculator a person could allmost instantly tell what the plane he was a bout to engage was worth.
So why not make it a little more complex? We also have another scoring system with "points" and "rank" that is in direct conflict with this one. A guy flying the best planes will have a 2-3 times better chance of gaining points or rank in one system than the guy flying an inferior plane and gaining the silly perks.
lazs
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Now come on folks, Do you all really expect me to believe that you fly around with a slide rule and graph paper, choosing the enemy to engage based on it's point value?
Go play chess eggheads (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) this is supposed to be fun.
As for country imbalance, Live with it, as long as a multiplayer game does not require you to join a unit and fly according to orders handed down from above, you are going to have numbers issues, gamey tactic issues, "Napoleons", Ur-a-dweeb-cuz-u-fly-that-plane, and every other little thing that's part and parcel of several hundred disparate INDIVIDUALS playing in a common location, WB,AH,EQ,UO,RS, even friggin Quake.
Get over it.
Those who feel that I'm somehow wrong and missing the point, well, I'll be glad to help you come to grips with reality, just pay me $125/hr and lie on the nice sofa (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"
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Originally posted by lazs:
oh... deja, maybe it really is a simple system. Using your examples.... Exactly how many perkies would I get if i shot down a F4UC with a d? How bout if i had to ditch? what about a C with a 202? How bout ditching after killing a tempest and a 1d with a 202? Take your time.
lazs
LOL Who the f*ck cares? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) Why were we created on the face of this planet, why do some people have blond hair? Why ask why???
Some things need no explanation.
-Ding
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djv, lazs, no guessing needed. Its all right here.
Wasn't really guessing. Its quite obvious, despite some people's claims to the contrary.
Just keeping it simple. Lower rated plane kills higher rated plane.. more perk points. Higher rated plane kills lower rated plane.. less perk points.
AKDejaVu
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Well I've been flying Rook most of my time on AH. This tour has been terrible as far as the numbers go. We've been getting gang-banged from both sides since the tour began. And this usually is no matter what time of day. Night time is best but not by much. Each side may have about the same number but Knits and Bish gang up on Rooks cause by then we've been driven into a corner. I've tried to stick with Rooks, not being a guy who changes allegiances every other day to whatever side is winning the war but it's getting real old. You take off and you get jumped immediately. Even if you take off at a remote base you get overwhelmed. This game is hard enough let alone always being outnumbered 3-4 to one. Unless you're one of the top pilots in the arena and can maybe hold your own (and even then these guys get flamed). It's not a lot of fun. And, with the mix of airplanes on all sides, you never have the advantage of speed or turning because there's always someone else on the nme group that matches your airplanes strengths.
I don't blame AH for it and recognize that that's just the way it is. I might just have to switch sides like a bunch of the other people. But just think if ALL the Rooks did that where would we be??? Maybe some of you squads need to think about how you change sides or even if you should change sides? I'm not whining, just calling it like I see it.
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Yes Lazs, it's hopelessly complex. How those people figure things like 5 divided by 1 on the fly is beyond me.
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well fatty.. i can probly struggle through that one but I bet most people have no idea how many perks they got on the last sortie till they land. By complex I mean that there are a myriad of modifiers. as many as there are planes and things to do and each is changed by the opponent. Adding more modifiers makes it more complex.
I don't really care much i just think it's funny. If you tell me that you have never been surprised by the amount of perk point that you earned on a sortie tho then I will admit that it is a simple system for you and that divideing 1 or five is all there is to it.
I think you will also admit that it is at odds with the other score system. in effect, creating two score systems with different goals and ways of reaching em.
lazs
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Big good, small bad.
Big number shoots small number lotta points.
Small number shoots big number little points.
That is all there is to the perk system.
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make it a two country war.
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Originally posted by Fatty:
Big good, small bad.
Big number shoots small number lotta points.
Small number shoots big number little points.
That is all there is to the perk system.
<puts Laz mask on>
STILL....DONT.....UNDERSTAND!!!!
TOO....COMPLEX!!!!!
MUST...FURBALLL!!!!
AIIIEEEEEEEEEE!!
<Dingy explodes>
Word to the wise, never try to imitate Laz at home. We are professionals and know the risks (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Ding