Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: fdiron on April 30, 2002, 03:39:55 PM
-
P40 inbound guys, break right! What model P40 did the U.S. use in the early parts of the Pacific War?
-
Superfly called it a P-40E
-
SPECIFICATIONS (P-40E)
Span: 37 ft. 4 in.
Length: 31 ft. 9 in.
Height: 12 ft. 4 in.
Weight: 9,100 lbs. loaded
Armament: Six .50-cal. machine guns; 700 lbs. of bombs externally.
Engine: Allison V-1710 of 1,150 hp.
Cost: $45,000
2300 (approx.) produced
PERFORMANCE
Maximum speed: 362 mph.
Cruising speed: 235 mph.
Range: 850 miles
Service Ceiling: 30,000 ft.
-
It's a beautiful thing !!! :D
From what I could find, it looks like it a P-40E-1 and the camo scheme looks like the one used by the 9th Fighter Squadron, 49th Fighter Group Fifth Airforce, USAAF.
-
We've been heard
thank HTC for the P-40 and all the other planes in the new patch
can't wait to get her in the air
Ain't the camo bird beautifu
..........Wadke............l
-
aint it beautiful?
actually no!
There are a lot better camo schemes than that!!
The AVG Flying Tiger version for a start, and the aleutian version with the skull etc etc etc.....
but no doubt once the basic version appears we can eventually get a Tomahawk and a Kittyhawk etc etc....
-
ur right faminz
i would like to have the flying tigers teeth paint scheme instead
but i guess this skin is good for now
just glad to see the plane
............Wadke............ ....
-
Yipiiii, the p-40. thank you, who ever built it in. I'll promise that I wont let her damage by nobody...
-
P40-E ?.
Wouldnt an earlier version make much more sense, especially considering the F4F & A6M2 coming out too?
Daff
-
shut up daff
-
Thats what I was thinking Daff, but maybe the E version was used in the early parts of the war.
-
I would suspect that a P-40B in full AVG regalia will be a +bonus+ :) I would also suspect a P-40N wouldn't be far off.
Anything is welcome as long as they don't model that damn B-24!! Cit :p
-
I *think* I read somewhere that the E model was coming into service before Pearl Harbor was attacked. So it is an early War aircraft.
-
i bet they putting in the c model too. remember the 110? we got 2 modes at once. :)
-
Is this where I can post thanking the folks at HTC? With a glimpse of the P-40, Wildcats, Zeke and A20's, I'm really excited about the upcoming plane additions. I thought I saw two A20s and I know I saw two Wildcats so I wouldn't be surprised if we get a 2nd P-40 variant, though I'm perfectly happy with the one we have. :D
Wooohoooo!
-
P-40!!! YES!!! Although i'm a german player mostly this looks like it will take some skill to fly meaning I will fly it!!! :D
It's a good looking plane too IMO all it needs is some sharktheeth and it would be perfect IMO :D
-
and my testicles are still crossed as they wait for green 38's ;)
*shifts uncomfortably*
hurry up dangit...
-
LOL Tac.. you might want to uncross those bro. Tho If I run into a guy walking funny I'll ask if he's you :)
Thanks HT...we got the P-40..now all we need is that Paddel Blade prop for the P-47 D-11
-
Originally posted by fdiron
Thats what I was thinking Daff, but maybe the E version was used in the early parts of the war.
The P-40E was the main early war version and it will fit in many historic set ups.
If they do another version of the P-40, I hope it is the P-40N.
-
WTG! *drool* I'll fly it exclusively the first tour it's out no matter how good or bad the plane is. It's a P-40 after all :D
The only thing this birds needs is a proper mouth ;) but when I'm flying it I won't see it anyway so it's fine with me :)
-
How will the P-40's turning capability be? I know it's not going to beat a Zero, but can it turn with Spits, Hurri's and such? I can't wait to fly her, just wondering what will become the best tactics used when flying this beaut.
-
The resources I have credit the P-40 with an excellent rate of roll and good turning capabillities. Maybe it can't turn with a Zero or Hurricane but it could outturn a P-51 more or less easily and my resources also claim it's superior to the Ki-61. It should be ok in power dives and zoom (probably nothing spectacular compared to the later P-47 and P-51 but better than it's Japanese counterparts at that time). My guess is it's going to be a slower, worse handling (especially at higher speeds) better turning and at lower speeds better rolling version of the P-51 overall. But that's just a guess maybe I'm off by a wide margin here - I'll fly it anyway :D
-
Originally posted by fdiron
Thats what I was thinking Daff, but maybe the E version was used in the early parts of the war.
It was used early. The RAF had their first Kittyhawks prior to Pearl Harbor. Active service with the USAAF had already began in late 1941 as well.
By April of 1942, the AVG was receiving P-40Es ferried in from Egypt and the Middle East. This was the first fighter they had that was factory equipped to carry bombs and external fuel tanks. Indeed, by this time, they were down to less than 40 of their original 99 Tomahawk hybrids, modified from Tomahawk II airframe drawings for fighters previously contracted to Britain. This gave the AVG their own unique model, lacking the extenal fuel tank and plumbing of the Tomahawk II/P-40C, and incorporating the externally sealed fuel tanks of the P-40B. These were powered by handbuilt engines from a special Allison production line, using rejected engine components!
Anyway, the P-40E fits the late 1941 through mid 1943 window. After 1943, the P-40N replaced most earlier models (E, F, K, and M) and served until replaced by later aircraft (Mustangs, Jugs and Lightnings).
My regards,
Widewing
-
Yep, the AVG P-40's were lighter and had 15% to 20% more power at "past the stops" than the true P-40B. Thats why I would love to see an AVG bird modeled to its own specs, rather than a P-40B with AVG markings.
As Widewing said they were not the standard B model.
As to:
"My guess is it's going to be a slower, worse handling (especially at higher speeds) better turning and at lower speeds better rolling version of the P-51 overall."
At high speeds the roll rate was bettter than anything other than the FW 190. Top speed and climb rate are the weak parts of the envelope for the P-40.
A (the?) top Japanese ace said that a well flown P-40 was the hardest American plane to fly against.:eek: Well he was there and we were not:)
-
Should have been in Russian Dark,light grey and white camo with a big red star though....:-) But the P-40 is as american as Coca Cola, M-16 and those realy fat girls on Rikky Lake. So I can understand the US version. (I recon the Tomahawk (D modell) will be in the Flying Tiger camo,, and perhaps the F version in Russian and the N in US desert Camo??? anyway great job HTC.
The P-40 is misunderstood and does not get historical accolades and considerations like the P-38 or the P-51. Many historians and revisionist hover on the facts that the P-40 was nearly obsolete before it was delivered and had several limitations. YES, the P-40 was developed from an older design. YES, it had altitude limitations, but it was a tough plane that had a good roll rate, good armament, dive speed, and could take punishment. Imagine if the plane had received the turbo-supercharger originally considered!
When pilots were trained to use the P-40's strengths to exploit the enemies weaknesses, the plane was a formidable foe. How can the historians forget that the P-40 was the plane used to amass the greatist military kill/loss ratio ever?
Erik Shilling (AVG Pilot), "The P-40 was a hell of a lot better fighter than those who have never flow it think. If it had had the top speed of a 51 I would take it over any fighter the US had."
-
Wutz:
The P-40 had its strengths. Just wanted to make the following observation.
P-40F & P-40L's were fitted with Packard V-1650-1 (Merlin 28, 29, 31) - turbo-supercharged engines.
From Fire in the Sky:
...Curtiss...claimed that the army's refusal to turbo-supercharge the P-40 crippled the model. Evidence from the Merlin-powered P-40 does not support the contention.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
-
Originally posted by M.C.202
Yep, the AVG P-40's were lighter and had 15% to 20% more power at "past the stops" than the true P-40B. Thats why I would love to see an AVG bird modeled to its own specs, rather than a P-40B with AVG markings.
As Widewing said they were not the standard B model.
Here's the story:
Recent research appears to support Erik Shilling's strong argument that the AVG aircraft were very close to the P-40B configuration, which the British designated as the Tomahawk IIA. The history of the AVG fighters is nearly as interesting as the story of the AVG itself.
When the Chinese asked the U.S. for assistance, they asked for fighters and bombers. For political reasons, FDR would agree only to fighters, and U.S. law at the time allowed only for cash & carry sales to beligerents. So, a China based corporation was formed to purchase aircraft. However, virtually all U.S. production capacity was allocated for our own build up and existing contracts with friendly nations such as Britain. In order to free up some aircraft for China, the U.S. asked the Brits to exchange later model P-40Ds (Kittyhawk I) for currently ordered Tomahawk IIB fighters. The Brits agreed and 100 of the contracted Tomahawks were transferred to a Chinese contract.
Curtiss saw an opportunity to utilize stock of enternally sealed fuel tanks that had been used on the Tomahawk IIA. The Brits did not like the external sealing and specified internal sealing for future builds. This left Curtiss with over 100 sets of obsolete fuel tanks. This was their chance to use these, and they had already been written off. This would enhance profits. In addition, the Chinese contract, unlike that with the Brits, did not specify plumbing or shackles for an external fuel tank, so this was deleted from the Chinese aircraft. Again, this simplified production and increased the profit margin. The net result is that even though the 100 fighters carried Tomahawk IIB serial numbers, these fighters were very much like the IIA, except that they had IIB armor.
Allison was running at 100% capacity. Simply stated, there weren't any extra engines to be had. Every block and cylinder head was already allocated to an existing contract. But, wait a minute, there were plenty of rejected blocks, cylinder heads and such. Allison realized that most of the rejected engine components were usable if the various parts were hand matched and fitted. They set up a production line and began assembling these engines. Individual parts were reworked and carefully matched. The results of this procedure were engines built to very tight tolerances. Essentially, these were 'blueprinted' engines. Dyno tests revealed that they produced as much as 220 hp more than the production line V-1710-33s going into the RAF Tomahawks and USAAF P-40C fighters. Allison had produced some very powerful and very expensive engines. Fortunately they were allowed to bury the extra cost into contracts for U.S. aircraft. These engines certainly account for the performance of the AVG's Tomahawks. In general terms, the AVG fighters could pull up to 370 mph in level flight, which is reasonable considering that these aircraft had 20% more power and less weight than the British Tomahawk IIB. Another fact not picked up on as significant by historians was the high rate of reduction gear failures in the AVG aircraft. This is easily explained when you realize that the older style reduction gear was rated for no more than 1,100 hp. With as much as 1,250 hp on tap, the reduction gearbox was over-stressed and frequently stripped gears. Later models, with 1,200 hp engines were fitted with a much stronger spur gear design that could handle up to 1,600 hp. This is the major reason that the nose is shorter from the P-40D onward.
Now that the Chinese had airframes and engines, they needed to purchase guns for the fighters. Once again, all production was allocated for existing contracts. Nonetheless, CAMCO (the China based front company) managed to purchase enough .50 caliber Brownings for all 100 Tomahawks. Finding .30 caliber guns (installed in the wings) was more of a problem. Eventually, the 100 Tomahawks were fitted with a mixture of guns. Some were fitted with 7.92mm caliber wing guns, others carried British specification guns in .303 caliber. Still others were armed with .30 U.S. caliber Brownings. This complicated logistics somewhat, but all three calibers were readily available, even 7.92mm, which was the standard for the Chinese Army.
Within the context of this knowledge, we can understand that the AVG fighters were a unique model. For that reason, Curtiss gave them their own special designation. Originally contracted for as the Curtiss H81-2A, these fighters were designated as the H81-3A. Many historians and authors have confused the various Curtiss designations, or figured that these were Tomahawk IIB aircraft based upon the serial numbers. We now know that these were a special model. It should also be noted that the serial numbers were assigned months before actual manufacturing began.
So, a unique group of fighter pilots flew an equally unique version of the Curtiss H81/Tomahawk/P-40.
My regards,
Widewing
-
that's an amazing story
-
Yep, that is an amazing story. Makes sense, though, given the war-time conditions.
-
Yep, the A.V.G. H81-3A Hawk was a 1941 perk bird.
The increse in speed and climb rate removed the weak points of the P-40B performance. Check the 370+ speed against other operational 1941 fighters. The turn and roll rates were among the best, and after speeds go over 250 or so all aircraft have the same max turn rate, set by G's on the pilot.
He he, if you ever want to see Eric go off, tell him that there were NO Zeros over China...
He helped go over crashed ones... The Ki43 was the most common "modern" Japanese fighter, but there were type 0's.
-
http://usfighter.tripod.com/p40.htm
-
i have this P40B diecast model and it's sooooo beautiful.
Seriously folks, the P40 can be called a hero. It was tough and flown by brave men protecting this country on all fronts.
-
Sure we get the plane I have been waiting since I started this game.... and what happens!? I am leaving for the Air Force!! Maybe they will get it in here before I leave! :(
-
Originally posted by udet
i have this P40B diecast model and it's sooooo beautiful.
Seriously folks, the P40 can be called a hero. It was tough and flown by brave men protecting this country on all fronts.
I have the P-40 "Initial Delivery" diecast model in plain aluminum finish. Beautiful!
-
I agree. We do need it. It may not turn like a zeke or out gun a nik, but dang it waws built like a tank. though al american planes were. and some russian planes were to but Oh its just so so buetyful it brings tears to my eyes:D