Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on May 01, 2002, 03:00:06 AM
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it dosnt need to be perked
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Youre right Festerbria.. :)
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Yes it does.But please remove the perk tag...
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Yes it does, the perk tag must be there too but 60 perks is too much. The TA152 has been lowered to 20 perks which is a good price for it. Spit 14 climbs ALOT better, turns better but is slower.
Something between 15 and 30 should be a good price.
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Nah, the Spit 14 is a beautifull plane, Keep it's cost, get rid of the 14 icon who makes any moron within icon range kamikazee of it.
I have the feeling that the modeling wasn't finished, is it me only? ... or maybe some models were without "valve cover bump"?
A substitute to the spit14 icon could be to clip his wings, so only pilots close enought to fight it would know it's a spit14.
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hehehe.........
Perk the 109G10 and Pony then.
Each is as fast as the SpitXIV, the G10 climbs with it.
ROFL
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Except G10 cant dive worth toejame and pony has acceleration from hell.. They dont fit perk criteria.
Spit xiv is pretty useless as tagged perk plane. It's too easy to hunt down.
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pretend it's an F4u-4
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Originally posted by mrsid2
Except G10 cant dive worth toejame and pony has acceleration from hell.. They dont fit perk criteria.
Spit xiv is pretty useless as tagged perk plane. It's too easy to hunt down.
I want some of what you're smoking!!
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If the Spit XiV were unperked, then nobody would ride the Spit IX or the P-51, or the N1K, or the LaGG.
I say keep it perked. It gives us Spit drivers a goal in life.
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Spit 14 outzooms most things, turns great and accelerates good, worth 60 perks? HELL NO but it shouldn't be unperked either, TA152 price would be good for it.
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IM with wilbus, its needs to be perked but 15 to 20 points is plenty.
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The SpitXIV sure seems to fly very similiar to the SpitIX. I would think lowering the perk cost of the XIV would be in order.
Drifter
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I agree the price is a little steep, but I am more emphatic about the perk tag. Why are they there? What allows an enemy to identify a Spit XIV from a Spit IX at 6k? Or a F4U-4 from a F4U-1D? The only obvious one would be the TA-152 with its much longer wings. Wouldn't a better system be to give them some type of distinguishing paint job that allows you to ID them when up close, similar to the way we can tell the 109s apart?
I like the idea I've seen posted elsewhere about the tag changing with distance, but that would require code. Painting the rudder red might be easier.
HaMmeR
netAces.org - Info, Tactics, and More! (http://www.netaces.org)
=GHOSTS=....You Will Believe! (http://www.ghost-squadron.org)
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Originally posted by eddiek
hehehe.........
Perk the 109G10 and Pony then.
Each is as fast as the SpitXIV, the G10 climbs with it.
ROFL
I did some offline tests the day it came out, the SpitX1V outclimbs the G10 to 20k easily.
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I agree that the spit14 is perked too high right now. I think it should be more like 20. Seems a shame to have it available, with all the work it takes to roll a plane out, but have virtually none flying. And, we have virtually none flying because of the cost.
Also, dumping the identifying icon would be nice, with the 14 tagged on you just become a center of all attention.
dago
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I dont know about unperking that thing. It may percieve to you that it is not much different than the spit9, however it is MUCH faster, accelerates MUCH faster, Climbs REALLY fast, and turns REALLY well. It is overall very manueverable. Been flying it in the CT, I am impressed with it. Those G10's, doras, dont get away from it too well. They are faster, but the acceleration of the late spit is just too much for them. Agree to lessen the cost of it (and the F4U-4).
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Puhhhlllease..... ;)
The Spit XIV is a beast !
If your sick of SpitsHigh already, just unperk that baby and there is no need to have any other planes.
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In any case, from the threads I have read on this, HTC position is that perks are to prevent certain aircraft from flying to regularly. To this end the current perks are accomplishing that.
The Spitfire Mk XIV has 943 kills and has been killed 715 times (.76 deaths per kill). Compared with The Spitfire Mk IX has 30656 kills and has been killed 29988 times (.97 deaths per kill).
The Ta 152H has 601 kills and has been killed 390 times (.65 deaths per kill). Compare to The Fw 190D-9 has 10330 kills and has been killed 7518 times (.72 deaths to each kill)
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Spit XIV and F4U-4 need to be perked.
Both should, IMO, be quite a bit cheaper than they are. But I have stated my opinion on this many times.
Turbot,
You do realize that according to your numbers the Fw190D-9 has a better K/D ratio than the perked Spitfire Mk XIV? That is the first time since perk planes were introduced that I have ever seen a freebie plane have a better K/D ratio than a perk plane.
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The cost does seem a bit high but the big problem is the perk tag, its a real magnet.
I know when I engage an F4U in the back of my mind is "chog maybee?" untill I get in close enough to id it, adds to the fun, for me at least.
I would like to see all perk tags removed, it would allow the guy's flying them to avoid the constant "conga line" behind them and would add to the game immersion if you had to watch for a bit prior to ingagement asking yourself Spit9 or Spit14..DHog or F4U-4.
Im sure HT has his reasons, but I sure cant figure them out:)
Shamus
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This must be "national troll day"
Waiting for an "unperk the jet" post
J_A_B
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Originally posted by Karnak
Spit XIV and F4U-4 need to be perked.
Both should, IMO, be quite a bit cheaper than they are. But I have stated my opinion on this many times.
Turbot,
You do realize that according to your numbers the Fw190D-9 has a better K/D ratio than the perked Spitfire Mk XIV? That is the first time since perk planes were introduced that I have ever seen a freebie plane have a better K/D ratio than a perk plane.
For whatever reason Turbot posted Deaths per Kill, not the Kills per Death that we are so used to referring to :D
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Originally posted by CavemanJ
For whatever reason Turbot posted Deaths per Kill, not the Kills per Death that we are so used to referring to :D
The Spitfire Mk XIV has 943 kills and has been killed 715 times (.76 deaths per kill 1.31 K/D). Compared with The Spitfire Mk IX has 30656 kills and has been killed 29988 times (.97 deaths per kill 1.02/K/D).
The Ta 152H has 601 kills and has been killed 390 times (.65 deaths per kill 1.54 K/D ). Compare to The Fw 190D-9 has 10330 kills and has been killed 7518 times (.72 deaths to each kill 1.37 K/D)
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Citabria is right.
The Spitfire Mk XIV has 943 kills and has been killed 715 times (.76 deaths per kill 1.31 K/D).
The Fw 190D-9 has 10330 kills and has been killed 7518 times (.72 deaths to each kill 1.37 K/D)
Considering that Spitfires are more popular, and the Mk. XIV was more common than the Dora in WWII, and the Mk. XIV was used for a longer period (17 months vs 9 months) than the Dora during the war, it's absurd that the Dora should be 10 times more common in the MA.
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I think it should lose the "Spit14" tag. As far as unperking it, bleh, I don't really care one way or another to be honest. I don't fly it now, I probably wouldn't fly it if it was unperked.
If it were unperked, I'm pretty sure it would be the most flown plane in the arena, easily. All the Spit IX drivers would switch over, and probably a good chunk of the N1K2 and La7 pilots as well.
If you want them to lower the price, just don't fly it. It worked with the Ta-152.. well, over the course of 10 months anyway. It is now only 20 points instead of the 60 it used to be.
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"I think it should lose the "Spit14" tag."
I really don't want to have to treat every Spit I meet as if it's a Spit 14. It sucks enough already having to treat every 109 like it has the speed of the G-10 and turning ability of the F.
Some of us don't play at 1600 x 1200 and can't see the graphics well enough to tell which particular model it is.
J_A_B
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CavemanJ are you saying pony is a good accelerator then?
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What does the Doras K/D have to do with anything? Mostly skilled LW pilots fly it because it is a little difficult to fly for a newbie because it is stricktly a BnZ and E fighter.
The SPITXIV needs to be perked IMO but 60 is just way too high. In my opinion all perk planes need to be cut.
Ta-152 is fine at it's value
CHOG is fine at it's value
Tempest should be 40
F4u4 should be 40
Spit XIV should be 35
Me-262 should be 100 (I have money to spend on it but 200 is a lot and takes a long time to reach if you aren't on much or aren't that good a pilot)
This whould make perk planes more common.
As it is the only perk planes I really see are the CHOG and the occassional Ta-152 or Me-262.
Oh and the Dora should remain unperked, the P-51 is more deadly than it the only reason the P-51 doesn't have the K/D it has is because a lot of newbies seem to be drawn to the P-51 (maybe too much Saving Private Ryan? P-51 Tank killers! lol). Also I know some people who would probably leave if the Dora was perked because it is their main ride.
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Originally posted by Soviet
What does the Doras K/D have to do with anything? Mostly skilled LW pilots fly it because it is a little difficult to fly for a newbie because it is stricktly a BnZ and E fighter.
ROFLMAO
Thanks, that's the funniest thing I've read all day. You did mean it as a joke... right?
Right?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Yep if non-LW plane has high k/d: Overmodeled.
If LW plane has high k/d: Skilled LW.
Hehehehe :)
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I agree on removing the perk tag. Its ridiculous to have everyone in the arena go gung ho to HO you down no matter what the cost.
F4U4 , Spit14, Ta152 should read F4U, Spit and 190
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Why? So people with lots of points can "hide" in their superplanes and pick on those who can't afford them?
I guess I'm the opposite of you guys; I wish every plane had a unique ICON, at least up close.
Methinks those who don't like the ICON tag on perkplanes just want to be able to give themselves more of an advantage with no downside.
J_A_B
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Whats the point of flying a plane that draws everyone within 6000 yards onto you? Besides to bait them away from your team..
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the perk system works fine if anything things are 2 cheap
the icons are fine
I could careless whether any plane is "perked" as long as it doesn't turn the main into "spithigh" or "choghigh"
I never had one opinion or another at the time the chog was perked but flying in ah before and after I like the fact that not everyplane you see is a chog.
You all know that the spit xiv will end up with 20-30% kills in ah.
and the main will return to the way was when the chog over polluted the main.
the spit xiv would have a greater impact on the main way beyond what it did in rl just like the chog did.
so its perked. perk points are easy as hell to get so whether its 200 or 20 wtf the difference?
If guys flying the perk planes werent such rutabagas and worried about losing their "points" they may actually fight in it the run around boring the crap out of the rest of us. Asking to get ho'd.
in a few hours flying a night i end up with enough fer 2 152s on good runs I have gotten as many as 50 perks in a sortie. If you wanna fly a "perk plane" then get out of the late war birds and earn umm. It aint hard.
spit v la5 205 g2 d11 zeke hell theres plenty of perk farming aircraft and more on the way.
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Originally posted by J_A_B
Why? So people with lots of points can "hide" in their superplanes and pick on those who can't afford them?
I guess I'm the opposite of you guys; I wish every plane had a unique ICON, at least up close.
Methinks those who don't like the ICON tag on perkplanes just want to be able to give themselves more of an advantage with no downside.
J_A_B
There is no advantage to flying a perk plane with only a marginal edge in preformance, when every single enemy con in range gravitates towards you. I dont fly perk planes that are variants of non perk planes becuase its no fun.
Perked plane varients should be given distinctive paint schemes (like the F4U-C), but not a distinctive tag from 6k out. I have no problem being identified as a more dangerous varient, I just find it idiotic to do so with a name tag to anyone within 3 miles. Not only would it stop the conga lines to a great extent, it adds a sence of apprehension.
Remember in Top Gun when they discovered the pair of Migs where in fact 2 pair....its that pucker factor that makes for a better game.
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"Whats the point of flying a plane that draws everyone within 6000 yards onto you? "
It's possible to use this to your advantage. What could be more entertaining than having a bunch of mindless slavering enemies under you, who are more concerned with shooting at you from 1K yards than with actually flying their plane?
J_A_B
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Originally posted by 2Late4U
Remember in Top Gun when they discovered the pair of Migs where in fact 2 pair....its that pucker factor that makes for a better game.
Heh..the Mig-28's...I had forgotten about those...
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Spit XIV and f4u-4 shall be both cheaper, around 20-30. Other planes perk prices are more or less ok... But when last time you saw tempest in the air? For whole my 120 hours in AH last tour I saw only 1. I saw 10+ ta152, arados and f4uc's; very few spitfires XIV and 2 f4u-4. Saw 3 262s.
Fariz
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Originally posted by Innominate
Whats the point of flying a plane that draws everyone within 6000 yards onto you? Besides to bait them away from your team..
Doesn't hurt the Tempest at least - it's the real monster and at only 10 more points than the sp14 one wonders why mess with the sp14 anyway.
The Tempest has 862 kills and has been killed 208 times. (.24 deaths to every kill or 4.14 K/D)
The Spitfire Mk XIV has 943 kills and has been killed 715 times (.76 deaths per kill or 1.31 K/D).
Tempest surely looks to be easily worth the extra 10 perks. Even a dweeb like me had 9 kills in Tempest last run (with one landing death).
Would be interesting to see the figures from CT when the perk planes were free. Especially how many 152's flew (i'm gonna guess not many?)
But Wotan is right - you are not going to get the perks for any of these in a late war plane. (sure in a few months maybe - but only a small percentage oif what you could have earned.)
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Originally posted by Wotan
so its perked. perk points are easy as hell to get so whether its 200 or 20 wtf the difference?
Not everyone is as good a flier as you or can devote as much time. It takes me a fortnight to get 20 fighter perks.
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Hmm, how about perking D-9, Spit XIV, P51D ?
IMO, the perk price of Spit XIV and D-9 should be tied together. But even the P51D.
For example
Spit XIV 10 perkies
P51D 5 perkies
D-9 15 perkies
La7 15 perkies
Tempest 20 perkies
etc etc.
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Originally posted by Turbot
In any case, from the threads I have read on this, HTC position is that perks are to prevent certain aircraft from flying to regularly. To this end the current perks are accomplishing that.
The Spitfire Mk XIV has 943 kills and has been killed 715 times (.76 deaths per kill). Compared with The Spitfire Mk IX has 30656 kills and has been killed 29988 times (.97 deaths per kill).
The Ta 152H has 601 kills and has been killed 390 times (.65 deaths per kill). Compare to The Fw 190D-9 has 10330 kills and has been killed 7518 times (.72 deaths to each kill)
It means nothing, remove the perk billboard kamikazee magnet and then you can compare. Keep the points high but let the ones who love the machine a chance to fight it. Remove the perk tag of the SpitXIV, TA152, F4U-4.... and I would say even Tempest.
If you don't add a tag to the G10, F4u-C, D9, Spit1, spit5, spit 9, spitwhatever.
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Perking the SPIT XIV is fine because of the spit fetish of the main and it turns pretty well for a high performance fighter. It also outclimbs EVERYTHING in the main. Granted the perks are too many 20 should be fine maybe even 15 but not 60.
The Dora and 51 should remain the same because The P-51 is great but doesn't hold all the cards that warrant a perk and the Dora has a good climb rate but not the best, La-7 is faster then it on teh deck, P-51 both outruns it and outclimbs it at alt it doesn't turn well. Really it's just a fast plane that's good at E and BnZ fighting but get a plane that's faster than it and it's kinda screwed. The Bf-109G10 should remain free too, it doesn't turn that well it's guns aren't the greatest (unless you want to lose performance) and it is pretty weak armor wise.
The Spit XIV is obviously much better then all of the above planes except for some of the speed category.
BTW, I was wondering what's the figures of the Spit IX (you claim it's a 1942 model but what model is it called?) to the SPIT IX LF that you all say you want so much?
Maybe that could be added to appease the Spit Flyers while the Spit XIV could be a 20 perk plane that is an incentive to work for :).
I'm always working towards more perks to fly the 262 more often :)
Also, that post I made about the more skilled LW pilot blah blah blah... What I meant is the reason teh K/D ratio of the Spit 9 or P-51 isn't that high is because a lot of people who are new hear the Spit 9 is easy to fly or they like the P-51 cause they're American and they've heard a lot about it and stuff like that. Think about it, most newbies aren't that concerned with flying the Dora. I actually find the Dora a little difficult to get a good gunnery solution on due to it's lower velocity cannons and MGs plus the fact that the big nose obstructs the few in high angle off shots.
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Enough senseless whining... There is ONLY one thing that needs to be changed...
Perk the MC202!!!
Aub
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For the health of MA, double the cost of Spit XIV and perk SpitIX.
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oh goodness, here comes Mr. emotion:D
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Originally posted by Soviet
The Dora and 51 should remain the same because The P-51 is great but doesn't hold all the cards that warrant a perk and the Dora has a good climb rate but not the best, La-7 is faster then it on teh deck, P-51 both outruns it and outclimbs it at alt it doesn't turn well. Really it's just a fast plane that's good at E and BnZ fighting but get a plane that's faster than it and it's kinda screwed. The Bf-109G10 should remain free too, it doesn't turn that well it's guns aren't the greatest (unless you want to lose performance) and it is pretty weak armor wise.
[/B]
When you state the strengths of opposing planes while downplaying the strengths of the Luftwaffe ones, of course it will appear that they don't match up well. This is a fallacy, and I suspect you know that. The Dora accelerates very well at low to medium speeds, it handles well at speed, rolls like a monster, sports nearly limitless WEP, zoom climbs amazingly well, and possesses a powerful gun package with plenty of ammo. I've gotten 13 non-vulch kills in a Dora before and still had over 100 rounds of 20mm left. It's one of the best E fighters in the game and one of the most survivable rides in AH.
The 109G10 doesn't need to turn well (though it turns better than you're suggesting). It climbs and accelerates better than just about every plane, perked or not. It's also very fast even if it handles poorly at high speed, and its gun package is far from weak... unless you consider a 30mm cannon weak?
Also, that post I made about the more skilled LW pilot blah blah blah... What I meant is the reason teh K/D ratio of the Spit 9 or P-51 isn't that high is because a lot of people who are new hear the Spit 9 is easy to fly or they like the P-51 cause they're American and they've heard a lot about it and stuff like that. Think about it, most newbies aren't that concerned with flying the Dora.
[/B]
I've seen plenty of new players flying the Dora. In any event, are you suggesting that, given equally skilled opponents, a P-51 or Spit beats the Dora every time?
I actually find the Dora a little difficult to get a good gunnery solution on due to it's lower velocity cannons and MGs plus the fact that the big nose obstructs the few in high angle off shots.
The inferior ballistic properties of the Dora's guns simply require leading targets more, firing in close, and setting up rear shots as much as possible. It's not harder, just different.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Funny thing about all this is all the LW guys downplaying the Dora and G10. Of late, I've taken both up just to see what they can do, and I got multiple kill sorties in each. Not 13 kills like DMF, but 5-6 on average. Far more than I ever average in my Jug or even the Pony.
I've also flown the SpitXIV a few times. Climbs well, good acceleration (fly a Jug if you want to see some snail like acceleration), of course being a Spit it turns well also. But nothing to write home about. Deadliest thing I have seen on the Spits, from the V to the XIV, is the cannon. Take away the cannon, and their awesome snapshot capability, and I suspect you would see less Spit kills and more protracted fights. All it takes is a couple hits from the cannon and your target IS going down.
But, same with the G10's 20mm 'tater' gun. Map your joystick to allow firing the tater gun by itself, and you'll find yourself landing kill upon kill, using only 3-4 hits to do it, too.
Maybe the SpitXIV should be perked, but surely not as heavily as it is. It's performance and armament are too close to other rides that are free to put such a steep price tag on flying the thing.
Just my thoughts, once again...........:)
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DMF, u dont know a single bit about AH Dora.
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I think he may know more than you suspect Mandoble... I also think he is a damn good pilot that doesn't have to fly one plane exclusively to do well- he'll do well in anything he chooses to fly.
And I agree with his assessment of the Dora, although I personally like the 109G-10 and 190A-5 better, I think they are more well rounded.
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Originally posted by Urchin
And I agree with his assessment of the Dora
Then apply my comment also to you.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
DMF, u dont know a single bit about AH Dora.
Yet again, you are incorrect. We spent an entire different thread proving that a few months back. Do you really want to revisit it? Might as well... Here (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45793) it is.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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MANDOBLE,
You might as well apply it to me as well, as I too find DMF's statement very accurate.
Tell me, what do you find the AH Fw190D-9 is like? You seem to find it quite different than most of us.
About the poor K/D ratio of the Spitfire Mk XIV. I knew this would happen if it had a perk icon. It can't run from too many things, if it meets an La-7 and a Spit V it is in serious trouble. The same is true for a Fw190D-9 and A6M5b or Typhoon and Hurricane Mk IIc, ect, ect. At the combat altitudes in AH the Spitfire Mk XIV has a lot of trouble climbing away from fast enemies even though it has a stellar climb rate. Now, all this is true of the F4U-1C, except even worse. What is the difference that allows the F4U-1C to obtain a better K/D ratio than the Spitfire Mk XIV? Simple, the icon. F4U-1C's don't call a gangbang onto themselves. Because of that F4U-1Cs can use their superior capabilities (that got them perked) without having their significant shortcomings exploited enmasse.
Another thin about the Spitfire Mk XIV. Look at these charts:
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/models/charts/spit14speed.gif)(http://www.hitechcreations.com/models/charts/spit14climb.gif)
The speed is pretty good, not top line until it gets way up there, and the climb is fantastic. Now look at the MIL lines only. Suddenly it doesn't look so hot, does it? The Spitfire Mk XIV only has 5 minutes of WEP and it gets all of what makes it perk worthy from those five minutes. Once that has run out it is totaly screwed. The Luftwaffe piston aircraft that are perked or top end free have 15 minutes of WEP, and don't lose as much when it runs out.
Clearly the Spitfire Mk XIV needs to be perked. If it weren't it would swamp the MA. I also don't think that the Fw190D-9, Bf109G-`0 or P-51D should be perked. They're fine as is.
However, the Spitfire Mk XIV doesn't justifiy the price that is currently attached to it. If the F4U-4, Spitfire Mk XIV and Ta152H-1 were labeled F4U, Spit and 190 the price would be justified, but with the perk icons the high price of the F4U-4 and Spitfire Mk XIV is simply too much.
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Perked? Yes! Points 60? No way!!! Perks should be in direct relation to performance.
Why is it that in these discussions practically nobody post hard numbers?
If you really want to know which airplane is better spend some time offline flight testing. Hell, we don't even have to contend with pressure, temperature and other variations. This is a computer program and should always react exactly the same way unless anyone here thinks that HTC has programmed for different results depending on all the variables which affect real life airplanes. I seriously doubt it.
We as a group should spend more time really getting to know how these airplanes react by actual testing rather than depending on perceived ideas or what we've heard from others. I suspect that if we did that we might become much more informed consumers and be able to offer much better suggestions on how to improve the game.
Beeg
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leave it perked! come fly in the H2H and you will see how agrivating it is almost EVERYONE is the new SPIT lol! maybe u could perk it down just a LITTLE but leave it perked.
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Some planes with poor record should be perked by the current criteria.
La7 comes to mind. Its poor record is only to the dweebs taking off in it from vulched fields. Why ? If you allow it 10 seconds to climb, it will be on you. Simple as that.
When was the last time you saw the Dora take off from a vulched field ?
IMO, La7 is more capable than the D-9 in most aspects. P51 is about the same. Spit XIV is better except dive, deck speed and roll. So I don't see how it is perked so high if unperked rides can outrun it. Just yesterday I was outdiving a XIV in a 190A-8 ;).
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not to mention that MOST of the Spit 14 deaths are credited to people that didnt pay attention in class and still cant tell the difference between SpitIV and SpitXIV.
Oh the joy of vulching a spitXIV 5 times in a row until he runs out of perks and notices his error... BURN SPITDWEEB BURN MWAHAHAHAH ;) ;) ;) :D :D
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Originally posted by Tac
Oh the joy of vulching a spitXIV 5 times in a row until he runs out of perks and notices his error...
i envy you for that
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qts time on line may effect cumulative perks at the the end of the tour. It doesnt effect the potential for perks earned per sortie that much. a 5 kill run of spit ixs in a 205 will earn you more perks then a 2 hour 10 kill run of 202s while flying an la7.
With the main as packed as it is it really takes no skill to get 2-3 kills per sortie. the biggest factor determining perk points is what plane you fly. Next is what plane you kill.
If you care nothing about flying perk planes then who cares. But if you desire one then do whats necessary to earn one like the rest of us do.
I gave your last tour score a look over. while you may not spend most of your 23 hours online in planes with a lo eny value its your inability to get kills. you have a little more the 1/2 time as much time as I have in the main. But I have lost more perks points this month then you probrably earn in 6. However I still have a crap load more.
So even though you fly 1/2 as much as I do I probrably earn significantly more perks points. More then what can be simply explained away by time in game.
A lot of folks like to complain about how the game should be "designed" to suit how they fly. How about putting that energy into learning to fly how the games designed. No one is missing out on anything because perks planes arent cheap or free. If you want one theres a simple way to get it. Its been covered over and over.
Festerbria complaining about perk values is like Ross Perot arguing he cant afford a 79 cent cheeseburger. 2500 kills per tour i bet you can afford spit xivs till vrs 2.09 :rolleyes:
Again this is only if ya care about perk planes. If you dont who
cares.
heres the secret formula
fly planes with a hi eny value and target and kill planes with a lo eny value. Yup its that damn simple. And dont gimme crap about skill cause I suck. It doesnt take anything to get kills in the main now. Very little acm is needed. Head to the nearest gangbang/vulchfest.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Then apply my comment also to you.
At the risk of sounding condescending... perhaps if you'd learn to actually fight in the Dora you wouldn't have such a low opinion of it.
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Only read the first 2/3's of this thread now so I hope I don't step on any toes.
It's been discussed many times that
"plane#1 flew more in WW2 than plane#2 thus the plane#1 should be cheaper" we've all heard it several times. However, MA has got NOTHING what so ever historical about it, and I mean NOTHING except the fact that it is WW2, we have all planes flying with and against eachother, NO historical maps (we have the baltic one but last time I checked we never had any Zeke's and F4u's flying around here).
So saying that the spit should be unperked because of that, is plain weird and a pretty weak reason.
IT SHOULD be cheaper, pretty much cheaper, in the TA152 class, Icon has to be there.
Come in to the CT and fly there, and then you can say that the Spit was more common and should be cheaper I will agree partly with you. In the MA, NO WAY.
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Where is Fester???..He started all this...:D
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"The inferior ballistic properties of the Dora's guns simply require leading targets more, firing in close, and setting up rear shots as much as possible. It's not harder, just different."
You just negated your own statement in that sentence..
Inferior ballistic properties = harder gunnery
harder gunnery = harder kills, not just different.
If you have to go close to the enemy, microwarps or even huge ones will spoil 5 attacks of 10. Especially if the opposing plane is n1k, they always seem to warp - probably because many japanese players from long distance fly them and they suffer from bad net connections.
Setting up for rear shots is ok if you're gangbanging and the enemy has 10 others to monitor, cherrypicking is not hard indeed if that's what you meant DMF.
Leading targets more means having to pull more g's, lose more E and give your target a chance to manouver away under your nose. Now how is that supposed to make shots different but NOT harder?
For the rest of things I agree if you're an experienced pilot.. Newbie players can not take advantage from the higher top speed, roll rate or zoom ability. This is because of the simple fact that 90% of people are instinctive t&b flyers. It takes practise to learn b&z flying, especially in the MA where a rope leads to you being bounced from a higher E or alt enemy every other time. I mean if you play rook that is.. Life is different when you have 2:1 on YOUR side.
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of perk planes
262: untouchable, kills anything and everything
tempest: fast big guns kills everything and gets away
f4u4: average guns, speed same as p51d mostly, way to expensive and dweeb tag makes it instant magnet
ta152: kinda sucks below 20k, 190d9 is better
spitxiv: missing magic spit UFO e retention. makes it fodder for n1k2s spit9/5 in furball. it simply dosnt have the e retention to outfly/zoom them. only dorka tactics work in it (kill them when their not looking and run away) overpriced by 59 perk points
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
The inferior ballistic properties of the Dora's guns simply require leading targets more, firing in close, and setting up rear shots as much as possible. It's not harder, just different.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Actually I think it is harder. I pretty much only fly 190D9's and 190a5's, and there is a big difference between those and the other rides.
IMHO, the guns in the D9 are useless outside 350. If the target is flying straight and level, sometimes you can hit him at 500. But it is a complete waste of ammo to shoot at a manuvering target outside those 350 yards (it is yards...right?).
Combine the crappy guns with the fact that the D9 is one of the worst turners in the game. That means you have to stay with the target longer, and you have to do it in a crappy turner.
In a P51D, all you have to do is get inside 700 and start blasting away, those .50's are just as easy to hit with at 700 as the German 20mm's are at 350 (Note: That is my opinion, Im not claiming that it is a fact, it is just the way it feels).
As you say, the crappy guns forces a D9 pilot to get in closer to his target, something that is very hard when you are flying in a crappy turner, and often against aircraft that can run in circles around you.
So in my opinion, it is not only different, it is harder to get kills with the D9.
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Hmm, is it a good time to ask for country perkies ?
I mean, you can get LW perkies when flyin 109/190, US perkies in F6F or P47 etc etc.
262 can only be bought by LW perkies
Tempest only for RAF perkies
Would be fun, especially with insane exchange rates ;)
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The Dora accelerates very well at low to medium speeds
Just the opposite, D9 accelerates avegaregly/poorly from low to medium. It has good acceleration from medium to hi speeds.
it handles well at speed
What means "handles" and what means "at speed"? At hi speed (400 mph or more) D9 is a brick, only 109s are worse. Below 300 is "handles" well compared to itself, but worse than 90% of te actual planeset.
rolls like a monster
At hi speeds P51/P38 outrolls it. At medium and lo speeds any 190A outrolls it by far.
sports nearly limitless WEP
D9 depends entirely on its WEP. No WEP D9 = C47. And It has a clear limit.
zoom climbs amazingly well
Only if u start above 400 or 450 mph, else a single SpitIX will outzoom clearly it, unless u are refering to an horizontal zoom instead a vertical climbing one.
possesses a powerful gun package with plenty of ammo
D9 guns are not much stronger than a 50", very poor ballistics and very short range.
IMO, D9 is not a rival for a SpitXIV, most of the times it is even dog meat for a "poorer" 190A5.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
The Dora accelerates very well at low to medium speeds
Just the opposite, D9 accelerates avegaregly/poorly from low to medium. It has good acceleration from medium to hi speeds.
it handles well at speed
What means "handles" and what means "at speed"? At hi speed (400 mph or more) D9 is a brick, only 109s are worse. Below 300 is "handles" well compared to itself, but worse than 90% of te actual planeset.
rolls like a monster
At hi speeds P51/P38 outrolls it. At medium and lo speeds any 190A outrolls it by far.
sports nearly limitless WEP
D9 depends entirely on its WEP. No WEP D9 = C47. And It has a clear limit.
zoom climbs amazingly well
Only if u start above 400 or 450 mph, else a single SpitIX will outzoom clearly it, unless u are refering to an horizontal zoom instead a vertical climbing one.
possesses a powerful gun package with plenty of ammo
D9 guns are not much stronger than a 50", very poor ballistics and very short range.
IMO, D9 is not a rival for a SpitXIV, most of the times it is even dog meat for a "poorer" 190A5.
BS
I hope anyone that is wondering doesnt believe that malarchy.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
The Dora accelerates very well at low to medium speeds
Just the opposite, D9 accelerates avegaregly/poorly from low to medium. It has good acceleration from medium to hi speeds.
it handles well at speed
What means "handles" and what means "at speed"? At hi speed (400 mph or more) D9 is a brick, only 109s are worse. Below 300 is "handles" well compared to itself, but worse than 90% of te actual planeset.
rolls like a monster
At hi speeds P51/P38 outrolls it. At medium and lo speeds any 190A outrolls it by far.
sports nearly limitless WEP
D9 depends entirely on its WEP. No WEP D9 = C47. And It has a clear limit.
zoom climbs amazingly well
Only if u start above 400 or 450 mph, else a single SpitIX will outzoom clearly it, unless u are refering to an horizontal zoom instead a vertical climbing one.
possesses a powerful gun package with plenty of ammo
D9 guns are not much stronger than a 50", very poor ballistics and very short range.
IMO, D9 is not a rival for a SpitXIV, most of the times it is even dog meat for a "poorer" 190A5.
I dont understand a word of this...really. Basically what you are saying here is that you have to fly the D9 right otherwise its a sitting duck...but the same can be said about every fighter in the game. I also think you are exaggerating its shortcomings.
IMO, the 190D9 is the best E fighter in the game. If flown correctly, no one can touch it. Sure it has some shortcomings (most notably the armament) but nothing too serious.
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Jeez the partisian roadkill is defeaning in this arguement.
Karnak, the Dora (and other MW50 aircraft) has 10 minutes of WEP I believe, not 15. And if you keep the XIV above 5k, you can outrun just about anything (what it can't outrun at that alt, it can easily outturn). Its only down right on the deck where it doesn't have the speed to run away.
Luftwobbles, the Dora and G10 are very good aircraft (the Dora is my favorite plane of all in the game) but admittedly have weakness's. Lets not play word games and try to make them sound like they stink. Because then people just ignore the rest of what you have to say. Your just shooting yourself in the foot by doing that.
Spitwobbles.... come one guys. The Aces High Spit XIV is the most lethal Spit XIV modeled in any online sim to date. The only reason that its K/D is so low, is that people mistakenly select it and go up and get vulched in base defense until they run out of perks.
This plane is easily the best vertical E fighter in the game, and can still outturn anything but the pure turnfighters (zeke's, Spit V's, and the like), which if you fly with half a brain should NEVER be a threat to you. We all know that the XIV is perked because not only is it fast, with great climbrate and acceleration, but it can turn very well too. All the other aircraft mentioned in this thread have 2 of the 3 attributes which means they have weakness you can exploit. The biggest threat to a XIV is encountering a La7 right on the deck at slow speeds. Then its going to be a hell of a fight. The solution? Don't go there.
Citabria wrote:
spitxiv: missing magic spit UFO e retention. makes it fodder for n1k2s spit9/5 in furball. it simply dosnt have the e retention to outfly/zoom them. only dorka tactics work in it (kill them when their not looking and run away) overpriced by 59 perk points
If your letting Nik's, and early Spits kill you, your flying the plane totally wrong. And I know for a fact that your a much better pilot than that. Complaining that the XIV can't out furball those planes is like complaining that the G10 can get in and turnfight a C.202.
And my last rant of the day......
Perk tags are a fact of life. Live with it, and stop whining about it, because its not going to change. Having a huge neon sign that says "come kill me, I'm special" is the penance you have to pay for flying an aircraft with a huge performance edge over the enemy.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
The Dora accelerates very well at low to medium speeds
Just the opposite, D9 accelerates avegaregly/poorly from low to medium. It has good acceleration from medium to hi speeds.
I guess maybe that could depend on what you mean by low to medium speeds. :rolleyes: However, anywhere from 150 up the D9's acceleration (http://www.netaces.org/ahplanes/comparisons/acceloverview.htm#title) is quite good
rolls like a monster
At hi speeds P51/P38 outrolls it. At medium and lo speeds any 190A outrolls it by far.
According to F4UDOA's roll rate tests (http://www.netaces.org/ahplanes/comparisons/rollrate.htm#title), the 38 does have an edge at 400, but not the 51. I wish he'd done some at higher speeds!
zoom climbs amazingly well
Only if u start above 400 or 450 mph, else a single SpitIX will outzoom clearly it, unless u are refering to an horizontal zoom instead a vertical climbing one.
Below 8k or so, the D9 has a better sustainedrate of climb (http://www.netaces.org/ahplanes/comparisons/roc.htm#title) than the Spit IX. Haven't tested zooming from lower speeds, but at 400, the D9 will climb higher but reach its apex sooner than a spit during my near vertical zoom climb (http://www.netaces.org/ahplanes/comparisons/maxclimb.htm#title) tests.
possesses a powerful gun package with plenty of ammo
D9 guns are not much stronger than a 50", very poor ballistics and very short range.
I haven't flown the D9 much, but when I do, those guns seem to do a number when I hit. For me, though, they are much harder to bring on target!
IMO, D9 is not a rival for a SpitXIV, most of the times it is even dog meat for a "poorer" 190A5.
This I agree with (the Spit XIV part at least, I rarely fly the A5).
HaMmeR
netAces.org - Info, Tactics, and More! (http://www.netaces.org)
=GHOSTS= ....You Will Believe! (http://www.ghost-squadron.org)
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Mandoble is so far off base with the D9 assessment I think he'd make a good US Senator.
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Originally posted by mrsid2
CavemanJ are you saying pony is a good accelerator then?
No, I'm saying I want some of what you were smoking when you said the pony has good acceleration. I italicized that part of the quote so you'd know what I was referring to.
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Verm,
Hmm. I thought the late war German aircraft had 15 minutes of WEP. Oops, my mistake.
I agree that the XIV needs to be a perk plane, I always have, but I maintain that it costs too much. I flew away my perk points on it and think I have a decent handle on what to expect in it.
It guzzles fuel faster than even the Tempest.
If an enemy shows up at a higher altitude while you're fighting, it will attack and if the enemy has a clue it will mantain its advantage. Most of my XIVs were lost in this way.
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sigh... again...
perking is not about performance.
perking is about balance.
yawn
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xHaMmeRx, a vertical zoom is not equal to substained climb rate.
Hortlund, the best E fighter is by far the SpitIX, it lives forever into corner speed range. A fast plane doesn't mean good E fighter plane.
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BTW, D-9 is not the most popular 190 among the JGs. From what I have seen, the real workhorse is the A-8.
This can be attributed to a certain difference in style while flying the A-8, as well as to 2 extra cannons.
Ability to deliver more lethal highspeed snapshots counts more than ability to turn back and having to do it all again, no matter how easier it is.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
xHaMmeRx, a vertical zoom is not equal to substained climb rate.....
Correct. And, as I pointed out, below about 8k the D9 has a better ROC and zooms better than the Spit
HaMmeR
netAces.org - Info, Tactics and More! (http://www.netaces.org)
=GHOSTS=....You Will Believe! (http://www.ghost-squadron.org)
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Leave the stupid plane perked, otherwise we'll have 5000 spits at 30k along with the 5000 spits on the deck at any given moment. Not that spits are a bad thing, just too many of the annoying little nats running around all the time.
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xHammerx, if, by saying "ROC" mean Rate of climb, and thus mean that the D9 has better ROC then the spit 14 you have either not flown any of the planes OR been smoking something REALLY good ;)
Really, teh Dora climb with less then 400 feet per minute at the deck, the Spit 14 climbs with OVER 5000.
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Originally posted by Wilbus
xHammerx, if, by saying "ROC" mean Rate of climb, and thus mean that the D9 has better ROC then the spit 14 you have either not flown any of the planes OR been smoking something REALLY good ;)
Really, teh Dora climb with less then 400 feet per minute at the deck, the Spit 14 climbs with OVER 5000.
I was referring to the Spit9, per the post Mandoble was referring to. In reference to your reference, however, I will refer to my references :D
HaMmeR
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Lots of references there ;)
My appologise, the Dora does climb better, atleast at low alt, spit will gain advantage up high though.
:)