Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: muckmaw on May 01, 2002, 04:07:13 PM
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No, this is not a troll. This is a simple quest for information from a person who is uneducated in Warbirds.
I read the stats on the P-40 in one of my books at home, and aside from the top speed, why is everyone so excited about this plane? Is it an excellent Jabo platform? Is it a great BNZ or Turn fighter? Or is it the fact that the plane just has sweet lines. Is it the fact that John Belushi flew one in the movie "1941"?
So what is it?
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What's so great about it? It's a P-40, of course. :D
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In the MA it won't be so great but in a more historical setting it will be a fun bird. It's main strengths were good diving and roll rate. It also has 6x50's and can carry 1x500lb bomb. It fought all over the world, so it is a must have.
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Its not always the performance of the plane that is the most attractive... sometimes its the history.
I will be flying the P-40 exclusively... and I only know about its performance from what I've read here. All I know is that since I was a wee lad... I've always seen the P-40 and thought it was the personification of ww2 fighters. That is why I will fly it.
Others... feel free to use performance as the primary factor in plane selection.
AKDejaVu
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I read the title and immediatly head, in my head...
I believe he said "Blessed are the cheesemakers".
"What's so special about cheesemakers!?"
"Well, it's not meant to be taken literally, it refers to any manufacturer of dairy products".
The P40 held the line for a long time. It was up against "better" aircraft, and required the people driving it to rethink air-to-air tactics and really fly to their aircraft's abilities while avoiding situations that favored the other guys. In the right hands it was deadly against far more modern fighters.
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The P-40 is a must have because it flew EVERYWHERE
1) It was the primary Pacific land-based fighter for the first half of the war
2) It was used extensively in the Mediterranean, especially on Malta
3) It became the primary Russian fighter before the Lachovkins and Yakolevs came along
Aub
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I don't think it was the primary Russian fighter, Aub. Maybe primary lend-lease Russian fighter. I'm pretty sure the old I- bi/monoplanes and LaGG-3s made up the most numbers.
It's a welcome addition though, if only for its scenario versatility.
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Probably right, Dowd. All I know is that had ALOT of them, and that the Russians flew them better than anyone else :)
Aub
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Reason i like the P40 is because of Pearl harbor and it is a new plane for the CT etc etc
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The Soviets received quite a few P40s from Great Britain's lendlease agreement with the USA.
UK Lend-lease
Of an original order for 471 Tomahawk IIB fighters, AK100 - AK500. Of these 21 were lost at sea en route to Britain. Of the remaining Tomahawks "125 were shipped to Russia and 9 transferred to the RCAF and one to the Turkish Air Force. 36 were diverted to China for use by the 'Flying Tigers'. Britain released a total of 100 Tomahawks to the AVG which adopted the famous shark's teeth nose emblem originating with the RAF which used the markings on its Tomahawks in North Africa during 1940."
Tomahawk/Kittyhawk Models
Tomahawk (Model 81) A total of 1180 delivered under British direct-purchase contracts. In addition, the RAF took over ten P40C fighters from the USAAC. The RAF operated them as Tomahawks of an unspecified mark and without RAF serial numbers.
Tomahawk I (Model H81-A) A total of 140 equivalents to the USAAC P40, except for four wing guns, were ordered on two contracts with deliveries commencing in April 1940. It was decided that these were unsuitable for combat use and they were relegated to training roles.
Tomahawk II Designation not used officially for specific aircraft, but was a generalisation for improved Tomahawks delivered during October and November 1940.
Tomahawk IIA (Model H81-A2) Protective armour and externally-covered self-sealing fuel tanks on 110 aircraft equivalent to the P40B. 23 transferred to the USSR and one to Canada as an instructional airframe.
Tomahawk IIB (Model H-81-A2, A3) A total of 930 in four lots. These were generally equivalent to the P40C and were used extensively by the RAF and SAAF in North Africa as from 16 June 1941. Of these, 100 fighters unofficially designated H81-A3 were released to China and used by the AVG. A further 23 went to the USSR, and unspecified numbers went to Turkey and Egypt.
Kittyhawk The French contract for Curtiss Model 87s was taken over by Britain prior to construction commencing. The airframe and engine changes justified the new name - Kittyhawk. A total of 560 was procured on direct-purchase contracts and a further 2432 were supplied by the Lend-Lease programme, bringing the total to 2992.
Kittyhawk I (Model A87-A2) Fitted with four .50 cal wing guns, the 560 fighters were comparable to the P40D. The UK took over the initial French order and deliveries commenced in August 1941, with 72 diverted to Canada, and 17 to Turkey.
Kittyhawk IA (Model H87-A3, A4) The 1500 fighters were direct equivalents of the P40E and were delivered under the USAAC designation P40-1 to distinguish the British equipment etc. from those for US service. Many were diverted to Canada, Australia and New Zealand.
Kittyhawk II (Model H87-B3) WW2 British sources identify the 330 RAF P40Fs and P40Ls as Kittyhawk IIs; later records list the first 230 as Kittyhawk IIAs. 81 were transferred to the USAAC overseas and 7 were given to the Free French Air Force. RNZAF had one.
Kittyhawk III Of the 616 Kittyhawk IIIs, the first 192 were P40K-1s, the next 160 were P40Ls, and the final 264 were P40Ms. The last 170 were diverted to the USSR. 9 P40K-1s were delivered to the RCAF on 26 Nov 1942 retaining their US serials.
Kittyhawk IV (Model H87V, W) The final 586 Kittyhawks were USAAC P40Ns delivered from Mar 1943 - Jan 1944 of which 130 were diverted to the USSR. The type was used by the RAAF, RNZAF and the RCAF.
(When Curtiss introduced the P40F powered by the Rolls Royce Merlin engine, the new name Warhawk was applied to distinguish it from the Allison-engined P40D and P40E. This name was not adopted by the RAF for the re-engined model, and the name Kittyhawk was retained for both versions of the Model 87).
Although the P40 was used by many nations during WW2, the UK was the only purchaser of the type other than the USAAC. Many RAF models were released for use by other Allied air forces (for free??).
Taken from 'Lend-Lease Aircraft in World War II' - Arthur Pearcy
I'd love to see a RAF/RAAF/RNZAF/SAAF P40 in desert scheme! :)
Regards
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S! AUB
P-40 wasn`t used on Malta much, certainly not during the intense fighting of `41 and `42. Was only used a little during the invasion of Sicily, based out of Malta and Pantelleria.
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It's a bit of a turd. But it was widely used. The main attraction is that it was used by the AVG (Flying Tigers), a topic of many books and films.
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Howdy Buzz :)
You sure? I seem to recall reading...
CUT!
Ok, I remember now. I added P-40s in that scenario so that there would be enough spots for everyone to fly.
Carry on :)
I do know that P-40s were used SOMEWHERE!!!
Aub
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Well it is Historicaly signastudmuffinant to say the lest, and I CAN NOT WAIT TO KILL THEM, in my Zero:)
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It's special because it's part of a move to incorporate early-war aircraft which may include some favorite airframes for some of us and give the game a new flavor with some lesser performing aircraft.
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I love the P-40 the same way I love my 1980 Corvette.
Back in 1979 all the other kids wanted Lamborghinis and Porches... I happened to like the look of the 1980 Corvette better than anything else on the road except for the early '70s Porche 917 (which was never streetable anyway).
Now that I know all about performance... I still love the 1980 Corvette and have owned 3 of them.
I like the P-51 and F4U more than the P-40, but it is a close 3rd place. I will certainly fly it in this game as much or more than I fly any other American fighter. I have no use for flying Spits, Typhs, Temps, or N1Ks... give me 100% raw American iron with 0.50 cal machined guns :) Though I will fly A6Ms to beat Spit gangs and Spits to beat Tempest gangs. In the CT, I always fly on the undermanned side... usually LW :(
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It's important to me as a Kiwi; it was all we had in the early part of the war until the US had enough Corsairs to spare, later on. It was responsible for the majority of all nme aircraft shot down by Kiwis during the war in the South Pacific, I believe.
But I think people expecting it to be an early kill will be a little surprised. It was definitely not a slug, and in fact racked up a pretty respectable kill ratio, particularly in defending Australia, even when it was up against superior numbers of a "superior" fighter.
To make it work in the MA, just make sure you fly in pairs. Historically, this worked pretty well against the lighter and more agile Zero. It was a pretty popular choice when introduced in Warbirds, I seem to recall.
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I gotta go with the "it looks cool"
If ya gotta git kilt in sumthin' ya should at least look good while spiralin' to earth. :D
I dunno if I'll make it my "main" ride, but I do know that as far as allied planes go, it looks as good (better) than a Pony B and plus it's got more guns.
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its looks are inspired by a dream kurt tank had. I can almost guarrantee that had he not spent the early 1930s in a continous drunken orgy with the most beatuful virgins in Europe he wouldnt have let slip his idea.
So basically most of the design of the p40 is based on Master Kurts thought process that lead to the most beautiful plane design ever
the FW190
ofcourse the allies completely feminized the p40 until it resembles that "gay uncle" the fws never talk about.
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Echoing what Taiaha said the P40 in Kiwi hands was responsible for 99 kills in the Pacific Theatre, (1/8th of all IJN and IJA aircraft shot down). It was a great multi-role aircraft and when there weren't enough targets in the air they switched to ground attack and interdiction raids against supply barges. At one point there weren't enough iron bombs so the armourers fitted fuses to drop tanks and filled them with petrol and oil, (mmmm napalm).
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(http://www.planestuff.com/lib/planestuff/fighterquirks.gif)
And more P40(0) stuff (http://www.planestuff.com/p40comics.html)
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It will be my main ride. I have been wating on this for a long time. I have vids on the aircraft, an original owners manuel to the plane even a signed book from a chap I met that flew with the AVG. The plane is all history and when used to its potential rather deadly. Just look at the tonnage of aircraft shot down by the AVG its amazing.
It may not be the best flying plane but you can bet if u run into one it will have one of the arenas best sticks at the controls.
Slayer
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Whats so special? Well, by looking at this picture, I see a striking resemblence to a FDB member in THIS P40 cockpit...
(http://www.geocities.com/jolietjake/movies/1941j.jpg)
(SOB?)
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Originally posted by Wotan
its looks are inspired by a dream kurt tank had. I can almost guarrantee that had he not spent the early 1930s in a continous drunken orgy with the most beatuful virgins in Europe...
Yeah, but those dudes were snobs, virgins or not. Wonder how many ended up on the Butt-Wall?
-Sikboy
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Originally posted by Slayer
It will be my main ride. .............
It may not be the best flying plane but you can bet if u run into one it will have one of the arenas best sticks at the controls.
Slayer
modest eh? :)
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In history it was mainly a mediocre fighter put against better performing enemies, but usually there was many of them - and mainly no other planes that could be used. So for example it was used pretty much in Africa. And became mincemeat against the 109s. Brave men who flew them, anyway.
Finnish ace Hans Wind's opinion about P-40s:
"In addition to aforementioned planes the enemy uses American types, such as the Tomahawk and Kittyhawk, which are not as good as the LA-5. They are about on a par with LaGG-3 but more vulnerable."
But P-40 is definitely a FAMOUS fighter, and one of the WW2 symbols. It was there when nothing else was, and did its duty. Don't think it will do miracles, though :)
Hint: by my WarBirds experience a P-40 driver can succeed even against bad odds when he knows his bird. The roll rate does miracles!
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"It may not be the best flying plane but you can bet if u run into one it will have one of the arenas best sticks at the controls. "
Or I'll be flyin' it.
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Originally posted by Dowding
I don't think it was the primary Russian fighter, Aub. Maybe primary lend-lease Russian fighter. I'm pretty sure the old I- bi/monoplanes and LaGG-3s made up the most numbers.
It's a welcome addition though, if only for its scenario versatility.
We sent thousands of p-39s to russia. "The P-39N and P-39Q were built for the Russian air force under the Lend-Lease military assistance program, and 4,773 Airacobras were delivered to Russia by American and Russian ferry pilots" (http://www.warbirdalley.com/p39.htm)
Back on topic...
P-40's will see some MA use after the honeymoon period - however if Warbirds use is of any guide many will prefer the p-51 model due to similar armamnet and far superiour climb rates.
In games past experience P-40 did not like to climb, but did very well nose down. How HTC will model P-40 who knows? So a bit early for anyone to pass judgement I would say.
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Originally posted by Replicant
The Soviets received quite a few P40s from Great Britain's lendlease agreement with the USA.
UK Lend-lease
Of an original order for 471 Tomahawk IIB fighters, AK100 - AK500. Of these 21 were lost at sea en route to Britain. Of the remaining Tomahawks "125 were shipped to Russia and 9 transferred to the RCAF and one to the Turkish Air Force. 36 were diverted to China for use by the 'Flying Tigers'. Britain released a total of 100 Tomahawks to the AVG which adopted the famous shark's teeth nose emblem originating with the RAF which used the markings on its Tomahawks in North Africa during 1940."
For the record, the AVG aircraft were "released" long before they were actually built. The Brits accepted the Kittyhawk I in exchange. When Curtiss actually built the AVG fighters, they utilized excess part stocks left over from the P-40B run. This resulted in unique aircraft, different from any other model. Most historians look at the serial numbers and assume that these fighters were built as Tomahawk IIb types. They are wrong. AVG aircraft were not plumbed for external fuel tanks, nor did they have the hardpoint and shackles. Additionally, the AVG aircraft were fitted with externally sealed fuel tanks (as opposed to internally sealed as specified in the British contract). This is why the AVG aircraft carry their own -3 designator.
My regards,
Widewing
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not modist just know a couple that have been wating for this plane.