Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hortlund on May 02, 2002, 03:30:17 PM

Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Hortlund on May 02, 2002, 03:30:17 PM
You're a weird guy, and you're probably as far away from me as humanly possible when it comes to opinions and values, heck I'd probably hate your guts if we ever should meet.

But damn you are funny :D
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Sandman on May 02, 2002, 07:29:24 PM
I'm alright with EW... I'll buy him a beer anytime. :)
Title: nice guy?
Post by: chance-airwolf on May 02, 2002, 07:35:11 PM
yeah, maybe... just be sure to bring your credit card if he offers to buy you dinner (_!_)
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Octavius on May 02, 2002, 07:53:57 PM
dats cause he's a wisconsinite
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Animal on May 02, 2002, 08:09:56 PM
Elfenwood is a mysterious individual.
His lore in trolling is only matched by his skill in mood manipulation.
Subtle, yet powerful.
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: JimBear on May 02, 2002, 09:58:20 PM
He's a tyro, put him and Avenger in a locked room and I am sure it would take days befored they pummeled themselves to bloody pulps with BS   ;)
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Elfenwolf on May 02, 2002, 11:39:59 PM
Thanks for the props Hortlund, I respect what you have accomplished in your career and the effort you must have applied to achieve your position in the Swedish Judiciary System at such a tender age. Your positions on the BBS are well thought out and articulated superbly, and if I disagree with a point of view you hold I disagree in a respectful manner and by no means do I hate anyone who posts here, least of all you...in fact I prefer having staunch conservatives as neighbors because they keep their yards up better than liberals do and I LOVE those plastic pink flamingos all of my Republican neighbors have.
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Sandman on May 03, 2002, 12:24:33 AM
One man's wildflowers are another man's weeds. :)
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Hangtime on May 03, 2002, 12:27:32 AM
somebody bring in the 'o' tank.

elfie and hortland have their heads up each others tulips again.

:rolleyes:
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: easymo on May 03, 2002, 12:36:50 AM
"elfie and hortland have their heads up each others tulips again. "

Ahh. Young love.
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Sandman on May 03, 2002, 12:38:16 AM
hehe... young love hell...

I bet EW is twice Hortlunds age.
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Hortlund on May 03, 2002, 12:41:02 AM
hehehe, somehow I knew this post would be a mistake.
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Animal on May 03, 2002, 01:07:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
hehehe, somehow I knew this post would be a mistake.


embracing your true sexuality aint no mistake
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Hortlund on May 03, 2002, 01:14:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Animal


embracing your true sexuality aint no mistake


Is that why you keep posting cartoons of gay people spanking eachother?
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Animal on May 03, 2002, 01:18:52 AM
(http://www.flyingember.com/parade.jpg)
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Hortlund on May 03, 2002, 01:34:08 AM
Yes, let it out. Embrace your true self.
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: easymo on May 03, 2002, 02:37:45 AM
Please don't discourage homosexuality.  The more of them there are, the more girls there are, for those of us with hopeless fashion sense.  

You go girl!
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Ripsnort on May 03, 2002, 07:54:01 AM
Agree with Animal, and I had Elf squelched since his first week on the BBS (A first with me of 11,000+ posts! :) )
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Mighty1 on May 03, 2002, 08:08:01 AM
I'd squelch him but I have to much fun. Ya never know what he's gonna say next.:p
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: midnight Target on May 03, 2002, 10:48:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Agree with Animal, and I had Elf squelched since his first week on the BBS (A first with me of 11,000+ posts! :) )


You are missing some real gems Rip.
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Ripsnort on May 03, 2002, 10:51:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target


You are missing some real gems Rip.


I doubt it, been on the internet since 1987, and I've seen some of his posts, he's an amateur troller.  Seen better.  One thing is certain, no one takes your POV serious ever again regarding any subject once you start professionally trolling. "Young kid from California without parental supervision in teenage years" comes to mind reading his drivel.
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Samm on May 03, 2002, 10:54:54 AM
I question the sensibilities of anyone who squelches the Elf . He's no troller, he makes it obvious that he's not searious. He's a very adept devil's advocate . Here he's the best at what he does  .

The fact that some squelch him is testimony to how good he is .

Elfenwolf, keep em coming .

Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Ripsnort on May 03, 2002, 11:06:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Samm
I question the sensibilities ..........

 


Get in line, it forms behind my wife.
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Kieran on May 03, 2002, 11:17:15 AM
C'mon, Rip, is your memory so short? Have you not trolled AGW over the past couple of years upon occasion? I wouldn't get so indignant...

Elf spouts some silly stuff, true enough. If he's serious (doubtful) the thoughts are so rambling and conflicted no person of reason would ever take them seriously. If he's playing he is at the very least a parody of the more extreme aspects of the diverse personalities that frequent the board. Either way if it challenges you to think harder about your stance on any issue it has done some good.

St.Santa, Mr. Fish, Midnight Tahgut- these guys have challenged me on views in the past, and not always in the friendliest of terms (well, Santa was always friendly), but that's cool. If I had to think a bit harder about what I was trying to say, what harm is that? The point is, the mental exercise in crafting an argument, even against a troll, can be worthwhile. People should not make such adamant stances for points if they are not prepared to back that viewpoint up.
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Elfenwolf on May 03, 2002, 11:22:55 AM
What is this "professional troll" crap Rip?? You flatter me, bud, I'm an amateur. However, I do give you credit for being the first (and original) Efluff'n Squelcher. I will give you your t-shirt at the Conn in August.

As far as being taken seriously? Dude, some of the crap YOU come up with, such as links to White House press releases which you attempt to pass off as gospel truth, damage your creditibility far more than mine is damaged by posting something off the wall. And anyway I'm not here to be a standard bearer for a political philosophy. I don't care if someone is liberal or conservative any more than I care if you're bald or have hair or if you're fat or thin.

If you are too dense to know if you're being played or not then I can understand your option of squelching me. Just do me one small favor, Rip. You've announced you've squelched me about a dozen times now and I seriously doubt anyone gives a rat's bellybutton rather you've squelched me or not (especially me) so why don't you just shut up?
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: easymo on May 03, 2002, 11:27:55 AM
LOL. Yes Rip is still the master.
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: hblair on May 03, 2002, 11:41:02 AM
Good one Rip. :)
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Ripsnort on May 03, 2002, 11:41:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
C'mon, Rip, is your memory so short? Have you not trolled AGW over the past couple of years upon occasion? I wouldn't get so indignant...
 


Define troll.  I've posted my opinion on a subject expecting flames back..if thats your definition, then the answer is Yes.
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Ripsnort on May 03, 2002, 11:53:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by easymo
LOL. Yes Rip is still the master.


Naaa, he surpassed me with this one:

Quote
Posted by Elfenwolf:
                         How To Tell If A MA Pilot Is In Your H2H Game

                         I've noticed the H2H games occasionally get "raided" by MA pilots
                         who change their handles to "New User." Personally I don't care if
                         they play in my H2H game or not, but I've noticed some
                         resentment among H2H hosts against our cousins from the "Big
                         City." I have compiled a top 10 list on how to tell if that "New
                         User" is REALLY a MA vet for those hosts who may want to kick
                         them out. Countdown, please...

                         10- The bragging and chest thumping starts as soon as they hit
                         the tower and doesn't stop until they leave

                         9- A pecular odor reminicent of sour grapes and an unflushed
                         toilet permiates the arena

                         8- They only engage with a huge E advantage or when you are
                         otherwise occupied fighting someone else

                         7- They NEVER give a "check 6" as they B and Z the turnfighters

                         6- They lament the fact they don't get perc points for H2H
                         victories

                         5- They talk about how "exclusive" their MA squad is and how
                         fast they rose to the rank of colonel- then they ask if you would
                         like to join them

                         4- They have an excuse every time they get shot down, among
                         them such funny bone ticklers as "That wasn't me you shot down,
                         that was my 6 year old son"

                         3- They vulch

                         2- If you shoot them they will seek you out at every opportunity
                         to get revenge

                         And the NUMBER ONE way to tell if an MA vet is in your arena-

                         1- They whine that it's "not fair" we all fly the same plane sets
                         because they have so many "perc points"

                         I also think it's amusing when they come into an H2H game as a
                         "new user" and, if they get shot, they leave, but if they get a few
                         victories they are more than happy to reveal their true identity,
                         but what do you expect from people who play to bolster their self
                         esteem?

                         Peace out,
                         Elfenwolf


                         __________________
                         If you can't be a good example then try to be a horrible reminder.
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: 10Bears on May 03, 2002, 12:06:43 PM
heheh so it WAS gman flying in h2h games in shades


yer sooo busted :)
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Elfenwolf on May 03, 2002, 12:44:50 PM
Well, while we are traveling down memory lane, here's the post that caused Ripsnort to squelch me. He had come onto the Free Multiplayer Forum and bragged about how his son could best most of the H2H players. The entire thread is titled "Concerning The Locked Thread" -something. Here he was trying to convince me what a wonderful Dad he is...


Originally posted by Ripsnort


Well, where do I start? Mon. and Wed. swimming lessons, Week-ends are T-ball practice, week-nights we read...he gets about 3 -5 hours of computer time a week. Of course, this is just the organized stuff, we spend countless hours in our very large backyard, doing everything from playing baseball to trampoline, to every-other late afternoon bike rides to golf (Neighbors have a huge putting green, from my yard I can use 9 irons and hit thier green 130 yards away.) Care to make anymore assumptions?  Bet you were raised on Sony Play stations. I'm proud to say my son has none of that, and would rather be outside than inside, but I digress, the rain forces us inside in the winter months.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



LOL OK, now where do I start? How bout the swimming lessons? OK, swimming lessons it is...How soon before you feel confident enough to remove your floaties?

On weeknight reading time- I hardly think reading him posts from the BB counts as "reading time." Read him "Winnie the Pooh" or my favorite book, "Go Dog Go."

Moving on to computer time...He gets 3-5 hours a weeK??? Based upon your prolific posting pace I'm suprised you're off 3-5 hours a week. Maybe he plays while you're at your swimming lessons...

Now the neighbor's putting green has me jealous. You should put one in your yard so your neighbor can hit the balls back at you. That way your son wouldn't have to retrieve them for you.

Now let's talk about the weather in Washington. I know for a fact that the rainy season up there runs from September to the following June, so your "winter" is actually 9 months long. I think your window of opportunirty for outdoor activitites is 45 days a year, tops.

Playstation?? LOL dude I was in my 20s when "pong" came out. We used to play it for hours, too. I know more than most just how far computing has come. Hell, half the guys here don't even remember Pong.

That's just about it, Rip...I'm sure you'll post back, so until then...Oh wait!! You asked me if I cared to make any more assumptions about you!! Well, since you asked, my friend, here goes...

You are the Wilt Chamberlain of posters. Based upon your rate of one post every two hours for the last two and a half years I'm confident you are either an insomniac or a speed freak. Personally I'm leaning towards the speed freak theory because some of your posts are somewhat disjointed.

I can safely assume you are slovenly. Easy one, bud- your obvious fear of water that prompted you to take swimming lessons together with the rate of one post every two hours for two and a half years leaves you no time for bathing.

Obviously you spend many hours seated in front of your computer screen, so I "assume" you have developed a hemorrhoid that resembles the Pope's Nose of a freshly baked Thanksgiving turkey.

You have a certain superior smugness about you (especially when dealing with the H2H crowd) which makes me "assume" you are either stuck in a dead end job and use your computer for self esteem or, as is more likely, you are on disability for the last several years from your job as a grocery clerk, probably claiming carpotunnel syndrome as the cause of your disability because of working the cash register.

Your wife is a nurse. I reached THAT assumption because someone is obviously treating your hemorrhoid, and I know your bellybutton has to be way too wide for you to reach around and apply the medication yourself due to the hours you stay seated in front of your computer and the constant seat drops you performed on your 10 year old trampoline. I also can safely assume that you yourself no longer play on the trampoline because the constant rainfall in Washington has rotted out the surface to the point where someone of your 250 pounds or so would rip it out and you might get a REAL injury rather than the one you faked to collect your disability.

You surf porn sites and mastrubate often. Why can I make this assumption? Because you hardly ever post during the hours your son is in school and your wife is at work, and you have only one child, which, given the amount of "indoor time" you have in Washington, is unusual. I think you "shake hands with the unemployeed" more than you will ever admit. But then again, NONE of us admit to jacking off, so your secret is safe with me.

You have the skin coloring of a freshly peeled potato. That's an easy assumption because of 1) the cloudy weather in Washington and 2) You spend so much time in front of your computer screen...ESPECIALLY when the kid is at school and the wife is at work.

Your access to your neighbor's putting green will soon end because your carpotunnel syndrome coupled with the discomfort of your oversized hemmorhoid will cause you to hook your shots, especially from 130 yards out with a 9 iron, and it's only a matter of time before you hook a golf ball into your neighbor's sliding glass door and he bans your fat, lily-white, hemmerhoid- infected bellybutton from using his putting green.


Well, I guess that's just about it, Ripsnort. Please, post back and let me know how accurate my assumptions are. Oh, and keep your kid out of my H2H arena. That dude shot me down 9 straight times while you were at your swimming lessons.

Peace out,
Elfen


__________________
If you can't be a good example then try to be a horrible reminder.


IP: Logged
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: SirLoin on May 03, 2002, 01:28:10 PM
Gentlemen,12 paces turn and fire....:eek::eek::eek:
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Hortlund on May 03, 2002, 01:31:26 PM
Oh man, I dread the day when Elf will try to get my scalp...

btw Elf...in case you were wondering... I did not believe one word about what you wrote about me up there. You are very good at sarcasm, so good that it can be hard to spot sometimes, but I've been around :)

IMO one of the greatest talents anyone can have is to be able to get people to insult themselves. I think you know what I'm talking about here. The trick is to use peoples low esteem of themselves, or their modesty against themselves.

Example:

Me:
Oh, man check out that girl over at the bar. She seems to be really interested in you. Look at that, she keeps staring at you, she must think you are a real hunk. Go over there and talk to her.

My buddy (kinda shy):
Oh, do you really think so? Me? Nah, cant be. Are you sure she is looking at me and not some other guy?

Me:
You're probably right, why should she be looking at you? She's probably looking at some other guy.
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Dowding on May 03, 2002, 03:01:42 PM
That was pretty good elfenwolf. :D

Come on, Ripsnort. You've got to see the funny side of that little exchange - no matter how accurate or otherwise it might be. ;)
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Ripsnort on May 03, 2002, 03:05:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
That was pretty good elfenwolf. :D

Come on, Ripsnort. You've got to see the funny side of that little exchange - no matter how accurate or otherwise it might be. ;)


?? What are you speaking of ?
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: midnight Target on May 03, 2002, 03:07:17 PM
this:

Quote
Originally posted by Elfenwolf
Well, while we are traveling down memory lane, here's the post that caused Ripsnort to squelch me. He had come onto the Free Multiplayer Forum and bragged about how his son could best most of the H2H players. The entire thread is titled "Concerning The Locked Thread" -something. Here he was trying to convince me what a wonderful Dad he is...


Originally posted by Ripsnort


Well, where do I start? Mon. and Wed. swimming lessons, Week-ends are T-ball practice, week-nights we read...he gets about 3 -5 hours of computer time a week. Of course, this is just the organized stuff, we spend countless hours in our very large backyard, doing everything from playing baseball to trampoline, to every-other late afternoon bike rides to golf (Neighbors have a huge putting green, from my yard I can use 9 irons and hit thier green 130 yards away.) Care to make anymore assumptions?  Bet you were raised on Sony Play stations. I'm proud to say my son has none of that, and would rather be outside than inside, but I digress, the rain forces us inside in the winter months.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



LOL OK, now where do I start? How bout the swimming lessons? OK, swimming lessons it is...How soon before you feel confident enough to remove your floaties?

On weeknight reading time- I hardly think reading him posts from the BB counts as "reading time." Read him "Winnie the Pooh" or my favorite book, "Go Dog Go."

Moving on to computer time...He gets 3-5 hours a weeK??? Based upon your prolific posting pace I'm suprised you're off 3-5 hours a week. Maybe he plays while you're at your swimming lessons...

Now the neighbor's putting green has me jealous. You should put one in your yard so your neighbor can hit the balls back at you. That way your son wouldn't have to retrieve them for you.

Now let's talk about the weather in Washington. I know for a fact that the rainy season up there runs from September to the following June, so your "winter" is actually 9 months long. I think your window of opportunirty for outdoor activitites is 45 days a year, tops.

Playstation?? LOL dude I was in my 20s when "pong" came out. We used to play it for hours, too. I know more than most just how far computing has come. Hell, half the guys here don't even remember Pong.

That's just about it, Rip...I'm sure you'll post back, so until then...Oh wait!! You asked me if I cared to make any more assumptions about you!! Well, since you asked, my friend, here goes...

You are the Wilt Chamberlain of posters. Based upon your rate of one post every two hours for the last two and a half years I'm confident you are either an insomniac or a speed freak. Personally I'm leaning towards the speed freak theory because some of your posts are somewhat disjointed.

I can safely assume you are slovenly. Easy one, bud- your obvious fear of water that prompted you to take swimming lessons together with the rate of one post every two hours for two and a half years leaves you no time for bathing.

Obviously you spend many hours seated in front of your computer screen, so I "assume" you have developed a hemorrhoid that resembles the Pope's Nose of a freshly baked Thanksgiving turkey.

You have a certain superior smugness about you (especially when dealing with the H2H crowd) which makes me "assume" you are either stuck in a dead end job and use your computer for self esteem or, as is more likely, you are on disability for the last several years from your job as a grocery clerk, probably claiming carpotunnel syndrome as the cause of your disability because of working the cash register.

Your wife is a nurse. I reached THAT assumption because someone is obviously treating your hemorrhoid, and I know your bellybutton has to be way too wide for you to reach around and apply the medication yourself due to the hours you stay seated in front of your computer and the constant seat drops you performed on your 10 year old trampoline. I also can safely assume that you yourself no longer play on the trampoline because the constant rainfall in Washington has rotted out the surface to the point where someone of your 250 pounds or so would rip it out and you might get a REAL injury rather than the one you faked to collect your disability.

You surf porn sites and mastrubate often. Why can I make this assumption? Because you hardly ever post during the hours your son is in school and your wife is at work, and you have only one child, which, given the amount of "indoor time" you have in Washington, is unusual. I think you "shake hands with the unemployeed" more than you will ever admit. But then again, NONE of us admit to jacking off, so your secret is safe with me.

You have the skin coloring of a freshly peeled potato. That's an easy assumption because of 1) the cloudy weather in Washington and 2) You spend so much time in front of your computer screen...ESPECIALLY when the kid is at school and the wife is at work.

Your access to your neighbor's putting green will soon end because your carpotunnel syndrome coupled with the discomfort of your oversized hemmorhoid will cause you to hook your shots, especially from 130 yards out with a 9 iron, and it's only a matter of time before you hook a golf ball into your neighbor's sliding glass door and he bans your fat, lily-white, hemmerhoid- infected bellybutton from using his putting green.


Well, I guess that's just about it, Ripsnort. Please, post back and let me know how accurate my assumptions are. Oh, and keep your kid out of my H2H arena. That dude shot me down 9 straight times while you were at your swimming lessons.

Peace out,
Elfen


__________________
If you can't be a good example then try to be a horrible reminder.


IP: Logged
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Octavius on May 03, 2002, 04:00:41 PM
:eek:





:D  wow elf...!  heh good one(s)  :D   btw, whats with the change of location?  thought it was Lacrosse, WI :)  I hope you're not saying I cant be a proud wisconsinite with ya anymore :p
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: airspro on May 03, 2002, 04:32:15 PM
I have always liked ElW's wit . I really like "hisorher" post on Pimpjoes Mushroom thread :D

This one is getting "right" up there also . hehe .
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: skernsk on May 03, 2002, 04:50:19 PM
Elfenwood is Creamo.
:D
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Dowding on May 03, 2002, 04:52:32 PM
No, Creamo is Elfenwolf with a touch of harsh brevity.
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: -Concho- on May 03, 2002, 09:35:43 PM
geez i almost pissed my pants from laughing.......
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Kieran on May 03, 2002, 09:59:25 PM
You know, I knew there was something almost FDB-esque about EW's style. Not that I think it is Creamo, but there is a certain style that is similar- not to mention a warm relationship with Ripsnort. ;)
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Hangtime on May 04, 2002, 12:29:18 AM
remember the 'don't poke the cat with a stick' thread?

thats elfie. i mean; poke the guy; you may get ripped to shreads.

of course.. the guy gettin shredded may have some difficulty with seeing the humor of the situation, but for the rest of us; it's a heluva good show.

:D
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: Kanth on May 04, 2002, 12:44:44 AM
I can't even begin to imagine what your RL personality looks like.

All I can begin to thinks is that your neighbors would say :

"he's very quiet and there are alot of strange noises coming from the basement area"

this post had me laughing and I don't even know either of you.

great stuff!!!

Kanthy

Quote
Originally posted by Elfenwolf
Well, while we are traveling down memory lane, here's the post that caused Ripsnort to squelch me.
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: stat2000 on May 04, 2002, 12:59:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort


Get in line, it forms behind my wife.



????? The train. No thanks i dont take sloppy seconds...or in that case sloppy 457ths
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: hblair on May 04, 2002, 07:57:56 AM
:)Oh yeah elfy, he funny! :D He funny man! ! :p  Hehehe! He really is hilarious!:D :) hehe

:DMy favorite By far! :
Quote
Playstation?? LOL dude I was in my 20s when "pong" came out.


In stitches here! Keep it coming!:) :D Elfy, your the best troller bar none! WOW!:D :)
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: hblair on May 04, 2002, 08:02:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by stat2000



????? The train. No thanks i dont take sloppy seconds...or in that case sloppy 457ths


Who is this idiot?
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: gavor on May 10, 2002, 01:46:43 AM
WOW! A real honest to goodness back-slapping session. Wait while i get my pants off and join in!
Title: Elfenwolf
Post by: wsnpr on May 12, 2002, 04:44:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Elfenwolf
What is this "professional troll" crap Rip?? You flatter me, bud, I'm an amateur. However, I do give you credit for being the first (and original) Efluff'n Squelcher. I will give you your t-shirt at the Conn in August.

As far as being taken seriously? Dude, some of the crap YOU come up with, such as links to White House press releases which you attempt to pass off as gospel truth, damage your creditibility far more than mine is damaged by posting something off the wall. And anyway I'm not here to be a standard bearer for a political philosophy. I don't care if someone is liberal or conservative any more than I care if you're bald or have hair or if you're fat or thin.

If you are too dense to know if you're being played or not then I can understand your option of squelching me. Just do me one small favor, Rip. You've announced you've squelched me about a dozen times now and I seriously doubt anyone gives a rat's bellybutton rather you've squelched me or not (especially me) so why don't you just shut up?