Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Munkii on May 02, 2002, 04:16:27 PM
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I've been flying AH for about 3 weeks now, coming from about 3-4 years in AW and I can't seem to find a plane I like to fly. I used to fly strictly E Fighting in a F4U or P51, but the FM are very different and I find myself either dying or BnZ only. I then took a P38 up remembering its decidedly unique vertical handleing, low speed turning with 1-2 notches of flaps, and its stable gun platform.
I think I found my plane, it dives well (until compression which can be defeated with a little up trim), accelerates well, and packs a decent punch. My only problem is I'm not to sure on how the FM is in AH and I would like a few pointers before I commit to dying repeatedly in the MA, be it from a websight or a person to person training lesson. If anyone would like to help me drop me a PM or an email munkii@swbell.net anything would be appriciated.
Kamah
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Originally posted by Munkii
I've been flying AH for about 3 weeks now, coming from about 3-4 years in AW and I can't seem to find a plane I like to fly. I used to fly strictly E Fighting in a F4U or P51, but the FM are very different and I find myself either dying or BnZ only. I then took a P38 up remembering its decidedly unique vertical handleing, low speed turning with 1-2 notches of flaps, and its stable gun platform.
I think I found my plane, it dives well (until compression which can be defeated with a little up trim), accelerates well, and packs a decent punch. My only problem is I'm not to sure on how the FM is in AH and I would like a few pointers before I commit to dying repeatedly in the MA, be it from a websight or a person to person training lesson. If anyone would like to help me drop me a PM or an email munkii@swbell.net anything would be appriciated.
Kamah
The P-38L is leaps and bounds better than the P-38J we had in AW. You'll also find that that P-38L can do pretty much everything that the P-38J of AW did and do them better, with the exception of being able to out turn the Dweebfire. Trying to turn with a Dweebfire in here will get you killed.
Here's some links to to some films that I have that might help make the transition to the P-38L a little easier.
Leviathn's P-38 Love (http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/38love.zip)
Leviathn's P-38 Tricks (http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/38tricks.zip)
Ack-Ack vs. Z0mbie fight #1 (http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/vszombie1.ahf)
Ack-Ack vs. Zombie fight #2 (http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/vszombie2.ahf)
Maj. Thomas McGuire's Combat Tactics in the South West Pacific Area (http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/CTinSWPA.pdf)
Leviath films show some of the things that can be done in the P-38, like endlessly looping just using flaps.
The fights between Zombie and myself just show the basic stall loop rope-a-dope. Fight #2's stall loop is pulled a little neater than fight #1.
Maj. McGuire's tactics manual is a must read if you plan on having any success against Japanese planes. The manual tells you the strengths and weaknesses of the various Japanese planes and how to fight and evade them. After reading this, Niki's will be one of the easiest planes you'll shoot down.
I've got more P-38 films but have to go through them all and edit some of the down for film length reasons. Once I do, I'll post the links for the films.
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
Ack-Ack
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders
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McGuire's Laws:
- Never attempt combat at low altitude.
- Never let your airspeed fall below 300 mph.
- Never keep your wing tanks on in a fight.
(though you can ignore the 1st one in AH)
Note: This is vs Japanese planes keep that in mind.
I say:
Turn with what can outrun you and run from what can out-turn you.
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i'm also finding that i'm having more success in the p-38 guess it's coz i've probably flown it more than any other plane plus lately i'm flying all those lazer missions :) anyways about major McGuire's how to's...i'm not much of a history buff so i dunno if i missed the "how to deal with niki's" section, if anyone could point me in that direction i'd appreciate it. btw Ack-Ack thx for all the films and the link to McGuire's tactics it's a real eye opener especially about wingmen hmmm....and to Tac, thx for the summary on tactics always short and to the point :p
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Lol I could write a 38 Vs each plane type "How to Fight it" thing.
But then THEY would read it and shoot me down. Thats a no-no.
Sorry ;) :p
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Originally posted by Tac
McGuire's Laws:
- Never attempt combat at low altitude.
- Never let your airspeed fall below 300 mph.
- Never keep your wing tanks on in a fight.
(though you can ignore the 1st one in AH)
Note: This is vs Japanese planes keep that in mind.
I say:
Turn with what can outrun you and run from what can out-turn you.
Too bad McGuire ignored the 3rd one.
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
Ack-Ack
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders
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Originally posted by Kaz
i'm also finding that i'm having more success in the p-38 guess it's coz i've probably flown it more than any other plane plus lately i'm flying all those lazer missions :) anyways about major McGuire's how to's...i'm not much of a history buff so i dunno if i missed the "how to deal with niki's" section, if anyone could point me in that direction i'd appreciate it. btw Ack-Ack thx for all the films and the link to McGuire's tactics it's a real eye opener especially about wingmen hmmm....and to Tac, thx for the summary on tactics always short and to the point :p
In McGuire's manual he says you evade the Niki's by diving and extending with a shallow right hand climb and you attack them with BnZ tactics, trying to lure the Niki into a vertical fight were it can't match the P-38. If you get into trouble, just dive away and extend into a shallow climb and repeat attack once you regain your altitude.
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
Ack-Ack
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders
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"trying to lure the Niki into a vertical fight were it can't match the P-38. If you get into trouble, just dive away and extend into a shallow climb and repeat attack once you regain your altitude."
*cough*
Haha, too bad that dont work in AH. You have to do a very steep almost 90 degree dive just to get away from the thing. It beats the 38 in the vertical (hover & icons letting him fire cannon spray at d1.1 with accuraccy).
But that tactic works wonders vs 109 and 190, ki61, zeke, f4u's and the yaks. Dont try it vs a spit though ;)
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That's one more proof that n1ks vertical performance is porked seriously. It should flip over from the rotational forces of the prop if pulled slow and vertical.. From what I've read of N1k it was a real squeak to handle because it had a poor stability at low speeds. They added the extra large vertical stab in effort to compensate but I doubt it helps at 100mph anymore.
If a real world ace says you can spiral climb away from a n1k in 38, AH has either 38 seriously porked or n1k. N1k can follow anything up enough time to kill it unless the enemy has a BIG energy advantage.
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Originally posted by Tac
"trying to lure the Niki into a vertical fight were it can't match the P-38. If you get into trouble, just dive away and extend into a shallow climb and repeat attack once you regain your altitude."
*cough*
Haha, too bad that dont work in AH. You have to do a very steep almost 90 degree dive just to get away from the thing. It beats the 38 in the vertical (hover & icons letting him fire cannon spray at d1.1 with accuraccy).
But that tactic works wonders vs 109 and 190, ki61, zeke, f4u's and the yaks. Dont try it vs a spit though ;)
Taking the Niki vertical when fighting it works very well, virtually all of my Niki kills have been from roping them. I agree that the performance of the Niki is a little porked to its advantage but its no where near the super plane you paint it out to be. The only time that a Niki has caught me in a vertical fight is when the Niki had a marked altitude advantage over me and was able to match my maneuvers. If a Niki is coalt or below me, now way that rice burner is going to match my vertical moves, especially if I go into a triple Immel on the merge.
You can also fight the Spit 1, Spit 5 and Seafire with the same tactics. You can also loop fight Spit 1, Seafire and Spit 5 in the P-38 with great success. Also possible to loop fight a Spit 9 but it's not easy, especially if you break down and are forced to turn fight. At least with one of the earlier Spits you would be able to dive away and escape but if you blow the loop fight against the Spit 9 and are forced to run, he will catch you and kill you. But like the Niki, the Spit 9 isn't Uber and can be taken out with good, solid, well thought out tactics.
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
Ack-Ack
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders
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"I agree that the performance of the Niki is a little porked to its advantage but its no where near the super plane you paint it out to be. The only time that a Niki has caught me in a vertical fight is when the Niki had a marked altitude advantage over "
Yeah, 40 mph, nose up 90 degrees, manuvering and firing all guns and no control problems. "Little" hardly covers that. ;)
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hehehe i'm saving all these posts for future ref. thx for the info guys :cool:
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Originally posted by Tac
Yeah, 40 mph, nose up 90 degrees, manuvering and firing all guns and no control problems. "Little" hardly covers that. ;)
The N1K has to do better than that to beat the P-38. I made a test film earlier today where I took a 100% fuel P-38 90 degrees nose-up vertical and hung it there for as long as possible while firing the guns. It managed to stay nose high as slow as 20-30mph before gently nosing down and regaining enough speed to repeat the manuever.
I'd be happy to post the film if someone's got hosting space to offer. In the meantime, I've attached the digital speed readout at the top of the first prop hang according to AH Film.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
The N1K has to do better than that to beat the P-38. I made a test film earlier today where I took a 100% fuel P-38 90 degrees nose-up vertical and hung it there for as long as possible while firing the guns. It managed to stay nose high as slow as 20-30mph before gently nosing down and regaining enough speed to repeat the manuever.
I'd be happy to post the film if someone's got hosting space to offer. In the meantime, I've attached the digital speed readout at the top of the first prop hang according to AH Film.
-- Todd/Leviathn
I've got some space if you'd like me to post that film or any other films you got :D
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
Ack-Ack
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders
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Originally posted by akak
I've got some space if you'd like me to post that film or any other films you got :D
hehe Thanks, AKAK. Send me an e-mail at poliscitodd@nc.rr.com and I'll e-mail the film to you. It's a little over 100k zipped up. I might even throw in something extra for your help. :)
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Yes, counter-rotating props and no torque lets it do that. It can even go to near 0 mph before nosing down. But guess what, so can the n1k. And it does not spin or tumble from its 1900hp on wep SINGLE engine while firing guns. It also noses down gently on its own. Cute aint it? Thats what pisses me off.
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Originally posted by Tac
Yes, counter-rotating props and no torque lets it do that. It can even go to near 0 mph before nosing down. But guess what, so can the n1k. And it does not spin or tumble from its 1900hp on wep SINGLE engine while firing guns. It also noses down gently on its own. Cute aint it? Thats what pisses me off.
You suggested earlier that the N1K possesses superior vertical capabilities to the 38 because historically accurate tactics do not work against it. I understand your frustration with the N1K's vertical performance in general, but it's also clear to me that the 38 is superior in this department relative to the N1K regardless of how porked the N1K actually is.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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I dont agree with that lev. :(
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the BIG 0.... ZERO....0MPH, almost anyway and the N1k can do that without counter-rotation? now that just ain't right. :confused: throw some torque effects in there puhleez? for all that's good and HTC? :)
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and a bag of chips. dont forget them.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I'd be happy to post the film if someone's got hosting space to offer. In the meantime, I've attached the digital speed readout at the top of the first prop hang according to AH Film.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Here's the film 38 Prop Hang.zip (http://www.hispanicvista.com/ahfilms/38prophang.zip) .
Ack-Ack