Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Voss on May 03, 2002, 08:57:56 PM
-
It's still early in the program of investigation, but the news just came across a couple of hours ago. Apparently, some idiot has decided to booby-trap mail boxes with pipe bombs rigged to explode when they are removed. Exactly what the intentions are is still anyones guess. So, what's your theory? Is someone out to get U.S. Post Workers (remember the anthrax scare), a new approach to mass murder, or is there another theory?
-
The only relevant coverage I could find:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/mailboxes020503.html
-
Originally posted by Voss
It's still early in the program of investigation, but the news just came across a couple of hours ago. Apparently, some idiot has decided to booby-trap mail boxes with pipe bombs rigged to explode when they are removed. Exactly what the intentions are is still anyones guess. So, what's your theory? Is someone out to get U.S. Post Workers (remember the anthrax scare), a new approach to mass murder, or is there another theory?
Teenagers. Bored, raging hormonal teenagers.
-
This classifies as domestic terrorism. If they are bored teenagers, then God be with them, cause their bellybutton is ours. I hope you're wrong Sandman.
Les
-
Please share with all of us how you "classify" it as terrorism.
-
I should have just said, it IS domestic terrorism.
Les
-
Why?
-
Do you really need an explanation, Sandman? Think about it. First of all, tampering with a mailbox is a federal offense. It is against the law to even touch some one else's mailbox, much less place a pipe bomb in it. I just don't believe there is any defense for this sort of thing. If it's not terrorism, then what is it mate? Of course, I'm one of those who believe counterfeiting should be considered an act of treason. How many college kids try their hand at that? Not many, thank God, but it happens every now and then.
Times have changed since 9/11, and anyone who doesn't realize that needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Salute Sandman.
Les
-
anything that targets civilians in undeclared war is terrorrism.
pipe bombs in mailboxes qualifies 100%. Plus it also disrupts mail, which disrupts bussiness which disrupts daily livehood which creates fear.
-
First the World Trade Center, then mailboxes in Urbandale, Iowa. It is all part of Osama's master plan.
-
Originally posted by Tac
anything that targets civilians in undeclared war is terrorrism.
You've just identified every single violent crime ever committed.
First the World Trade Center, then mailboxes in Urbandale, Iowa. It is all part of Osama's master plan.
:rolleyes:
-
ter·ror·ism Pronunciation Key (tr-rzm)
n.
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
Pipe bombs = use of force.
Directed at a society or government = US Gov't
Ideological or political reasons = (taken from this article (http://my.aol.com/news/news_story.psp?type=1&cat=0100&id=0205041718190080)
Then it said, in part:
``If the government controls what you want to do they control what you can do. ... I'm obtaining your attention in the only way I can. More info is on its way. More 'attention getters' are on the way.''
Does that not fit, Sandman?
-
For all we know, they were random acts of senseless violence.
Cryptic letters does not an ideology make.
You want to make a point to the goverment? Blow up a subway.
Pipe bombs in mailboxes smells like a whack job with no other agenda than wanting to hurt people.
Let me back up ...
You know... it MIGHT be terrorists. What bugs me about the word is the way people bandy it about as if a terrorist were the bogeyman hiding in your closet or underneath your bed.
Terrorism is a tool of war. Terrorist are those proficient at using this tool.
Terrorism is warfare. It can be employed by anyone. Our country has even done it. Firebombing Tokyo was an act of terrorism. The purpose was to test Japan's resolve and show them that there was a cost to having the U.S. as an enemy. The firebombing did far more damage to the civilian populace than it did to the military industrial complex. Germany used V-1 and V-2 rockets against the U.K. Tactically insignificant, the only purpose was to test the resolve of the British people.
Terrorism is typically used against the U.S. in the form of "asymetric warfare." What asymetric warfare really means is, "I'm too small, too underequipped, too powerless to take on your military toe to toe so I'm going to strike your soft underbelly and see if that get's your attention to the fact that you're hurting me (or just pissing me off)."
Face it. Certain U.S. foreign policies make some people very unhappy and they wish us ill in return. Now... before you rush off with some self righteous indignant rant, I'll say it again. Take a breath. Certain U.S. foreign policies make some people very unhappy and they wish us ill in return. Take another breath. I didn't say our policies were necessarily bad or wrong. They are simply not universally accepted.
So... How do they voice dissent? What if the leaders in this country aren't listening or just don't care? Then what?
They blow up stuff.
When that soft underbelly gets salamandered. That soft underbelly, after brushing off the dust and burying the dead, will ask, "Why?"
I understand the motivation of a small country that would strike at U.S. citizens rather than fight suicidal battles against the most powerful military in the history of this planet. Turn the situation around. Imagine that the Taliban were the most powerful goverment on the planet. Wouldn't you drive a plane into one of their buildings? I think I would. (This is entirely subjective. I don't give a toejame for fundamentalist islamic ideology and disagree with it probably as much as they disagree with our own "western" fundamentals.)
Now... IMHO, domestic "terrorists" are whack jobs. We have a system in this country that allows dissent. You don't like your government representative? Don't vote for him. Of the people, by the people, for the people. If you're not working within the system, you're not for the people. Get the hell out. IMHO, we should call domestic "terrorists" what they are, mass murderers.
What bothers me is that the government throws the word terrorist around like it were some measure of morality. That we can even have a war on terrorism. How absolutely silly. We're going to have a war against asymetric warfare.
I wonder what the exit strategy is for that.
-
Well, for one thing, we can stop asking "Why?"
FBI Guy:"Hey, did you do this?"
Urban Bomber:"Yeah, but I was..."
BANG!
-
Pipebombing will reach epidemic proportions unless we do something to curb the spread of the two ingredients used to make pipe bombs- gunpowder and pipes. Now I already know most of you will never agree to a ban on gunpowder and will claim the 2nd Amendment guarantees you the right to posess gunpowder, so that means our only option is to ban pipes- and they aren't protected by the Constitution either.
I can already hear the squeaking- "If we outlaw pipes only outlaws will have pipes"..."There are too many pipes in use today, you'll never get them all"..."The Eastern Europeans will smuggle in illegal pipes"..."I'll give up my pipes when you pry them from my cold dead fingers"...but it's for the common good of our society.
Most of us use pipes for legitimate needs like washing dishes or taking a shower and it's only a small percentage of us who make pipe bombs, so maybe we could register our pipes and have background checks done before one is allowed to purchase pipe. Also a cooling-off waiting period might deter any spur-of-the-moment pipe bombers.
Stricter screening of plumbers, especially foreign-looking ones who speak broken English, might help cut down on this illegal use of pipe.
Ban pipes, allow the Government unlimited search and seizure priveleges for illegal pipes disguised as common household plumbing, and put these illegal pipe dealers in prison for 100 years and we might whip this newest threat to our National Security.
-
Elfenwolf
You are nutz :D
-
I think EW is on to something. We'll also need to establish an education program similar to DARE. We can pour hundreds of thousands of dollars into pamphlets, trading cars and custom painted sports cars so all the children can get the message that pipe bombs are bad for you.
Of course... we'll have to come up with a catchy name...
How about Pipebomb Resistance Information & Counterterrorism Knowledge?
-
SSSSHHHHH damnit guys, stop it! This is terrorism related, we can't make fun of it. :mad:
-Sikboy
-
ROFL!!
Elf does it again :D
This board would be incredibly dull without you man.
-
Hey@!!@
I'm working for the Post Office. I don't like this.:mad:
-
Great idea, SandMan, P.R.I.C.K. somehow seems an appropiate acronym for the subject of pipebombing. However, I've softened my stance (no pun intended) on this issue since my post inspired by the combined effects of Quiche, Chardonnay and Hand-Wringing at my local Friends Of The Earth/Save The Redwoods committee meeting/dinner to an extreme centerist- right wing position.
The problem is with concealable sized pipes, say 24 inches or smaller. Obviously a 50 foot pipe won't fit into a mailbox, so the pipe itself isn't the culprit as much as the tools used to cut pipe to size and, more importantly, thread its ends. We need to register pipe threaders and end caps. Make it mandatory for the Pipe Manufacturing Industry to stamp serial numbers into all pipes and plumbing fittings and establish criminal penalties for posession of pipe or plumbing fittings with altered or missing serial numbers.
Establish a Federal Beaucracy to test, certify and monitor our Nation's plumbers. Make it mandatory all plumbers be American citizens and subject to unannounced testing for drugs, alcohol or illegal thong underwear.Establish a Federal Grant of 500 million to study the appropiate disposal of used pipe which may possibly be used to manufacture pipe bombs. Hire 5,000 new Federal Inspectors who will inspect and monitor pipe production facilities for compliance with these new Federal regulations. Make the posession of unlicensed pipe threaders fall under the broad umbrella of "Terrorism" and detain the perps indefinately at a military prison in Cuba.
OK, let the whining commence. "Gee, who will pay for it?" whines the Stingy Republican. "Great ideas, I back you 100% but just in case the polls say you are too radical I can't say that publicly," whispers the Whimpy Democrat. Shee-it, spread out, Larry and Curly- we'll make the Pipe Manufacturers pay for the whole thing. After all, they're the ones who are responsible for this domestic terrorist assault. It's a win-win.