Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Beegerite on May 04, 2002, 09:56:21 PM
-
Mullets;
Just got back from Disney World where I was presented with an opportunity to break a psychological block about flying which I developed 15 years ago after a pretty active career as a flight instructor (was probably all those students trying to kill me day after day). Here's the poop and the pictures to prove it.
I saw an ad about http://www.warbirdadventures.com and decided to give it a go. Actually two gos at $300.00 a pop because the first ride I hadn't quite built up the necessary testastorone level and had to go back and spend another $300 in order to have something worthwhile to share with all of you.
Let me tell you right out that it's totally fubared the AH experience for me. Adding G forces adds a totally new dimension to flying. Let me tell you what happened, first Erik the instructor asked me if I wanted him to demonstrate a 1 G aileron roll. In a clipped professional matter I think I said something like "let's roll". He dropped the nose to gain airspeed to 170 IAS and then began with a 20 degree pitch up immediately followed by smooth but firm left aileron and left rudder. The Texan just rolled around it's longitudinal axis in a smooth rolling motion. I noticed the G forces which as advertised was only 1G. Only thing I can tell you is that it was different and not entirely unplesant. Erik then asked if I wanted to try it. Sensing a wild rush of testastorone I said yes and he talked me through the aileron roll which I executed pretty good with the minor exeption that I applied down elevator at some point and the roll wasn't exactly in line with the direction of flight. So far so good, though my remark at the end of my roll was that I wouldn't necessarily want to do this every day.
THEN! The moment of truth came and Erik asked if I wanted him to demonstrate a loop in which we would incurr 3Gs. Again, with some bravado I said yes and he told me to tense up all the muscles in my stomach, back and I suppose my A-hole. What he didn't know was that I've got 59.5 years of flab there instead of muscles. Anyway, I grunted, breathed in deeply and tensed up for all I was worth as he pulled up into the loop. No question about it. This was not for me. The blood rushed out of my head, past the wimpy flab attempting to keep it in place and rushed down somewhere around my big toe. Instant nausea, lightheadedness, queazyness and an overall desire to puke all over the instruments. Thankfully I managed to control myself and didn't puke but it immediately told me that this just wasn't for me. I'll leave my upside down flying for AH where the strongest G force is felt when I drop something and have to lean over the side of the chair to pick it up. After a bit of recovery I told Erik that I would rather just do some gentle maneuvers and he graciously agreed. The rest of the flight was just like the first with me flying the airplane to the final approach and doing the gentle and medium turns which my flight experience amply qualities me for. Now I can say I did it but believe me, never again except in here where I can't hurt myself.
Beeg
P.S. I may not be doing aerobatics in the future but I'm surely going to renew my tickets and ratings and if any of you find yourself in the Orlando area I heartily recommend Warbird Adventures.
http://www.gonocos.homestead.com/flightpics.html
-
Hey I saw you on CNN! Yeah weren't you the guy who thought you were still playing AH and shot down a Cesna?? :D
Way cool Beeg! Wish I was there! Someday.....
-
Yeah, it's all about the g's. I can't ever get enough. I can barely feel anything on rollercoasters. I want to pull g's until I black out :)
-
THanks Beegerite
That is so cool .
Don't know if my shoulder could take the strain of inverted flight ? I was in a moving simulator this winter and was hanging on the strap , and it hurt for a month after :( but when you did your loop you don't just hang , is that right ?? ( had shoulder fixed from 3 wheeler acc. in 1984 )
I checked the prices , what flight did you pick out , and what option's ?
Anyway , thanks for shareing the photo's etc , really must have been something to make you want to do it twice .
take care
spro
-
"Don't know if my shoulder could take the strain of inverted flight ?"
Depends on the harness. On modern aerobatic-type harness', you will be hanging from the waiststrap, rather than the shoulder straps. The harness in the Pitts I fly, got a 2.5 inch wide, padded waiststrap, with a ratchet to tighten it; Once you are strapped in, you wont move :) . Shoulder straps are mainly for restricting forward/back/sideways movement.
On old style Sutton-harness', you would end taking the weight on your shoulders, but very few planes still got those.
With a standard 5-point harness, you can again adjust the waist-strap to take most of the weight, although it will depend on seat and err, body-shape :).
Finally, most people trying aerobatics the first time won't be exposed to a lot of inverted flying..pretty much all of it will be transitional (ie, floating over the top in the loop).
Daff
-
Airspro;
The first time I took the non-aerobatic option with 3 camera video and 35mm stills for $300.00 and the second time I added the aerobatics for an additional $20.00 so the total expenditure was $620.00 plus developing. As far as the strapping in goes, I can tell you I felt secure with big bellybutton web belts and steel buckles to hold my "body shape" in place. As Daff said in a subsequent post I suppose that the proper way to introduce somebody into aerobatics would be with aeleron rolls etc. which I would have been happy to do. However, the loop at 3 to 4 Gs was a bit of a punishment to inflict on myself after being away from flying for 15 years. I also forgot while in it that it isn't only the G forces which mess with you but your other senses e.g. balance and sight which get totally confused by the conflicting signals. Overall, I think anyone who plays AH owes it to themselves to get a little humility by finding out what it would feel like to try to engage an enemy while your body is being subjected to G forces. I guarantee it will give you a deeper respect for fighter pilots.
Beeg
Originally posted by airspro
THanks Beegerite
That is so cool .
Don't know if my shoulder could take the strain of inverted flight ? I was in a moving simulator this winter and was hanging on the strap , and it hurt for a month after :( but when you did your loop you don't just hang , is that right ?? ( had shoulder fixed from 3 wheeler acc. in 1984 )
I checked the prices , what flight did you pick out , and what option's ?
Anyway , thanks for shareing the photo's etc , really must have been something to make you want to do it twice .
take care
spro
-
Congrats on the ride, Beeger! Very few people have the opportunity, or the intestinal fortitude (uhhh, maybe a bad choice of words...) to try acro at all.
It was interesting that the pilot offered a roll as the first maneuver- I've found that more people can handle loops than rolls (most of them have been on looping roller coasters or similar rides but few rides involve rolls). The maneuver that has undone most of my passengers, however, was the hammerhead; almost nobody has ever experienced zero G (the only ride that I'm aware of that involves zero is Superman at Magic Mtn in SoCal).
For anybody who wants to experience some G's without necessarily travelling to Florida or forking up the price for a Warbird ride, almost any airport that offers acro instruction will take non-pilots up for a joy-ride (and at a pretty reasonable price). It'll be different from a T-6 or any other warbird (which are heavy and fast and make BIG maneuvers with extended periods of G), but still the most fun you can have with your clothes on.
-
Beeg guess what?
I saw your not from the tube but live
when did this happen and was there a lake near by
Cause i saw you with binoculars:D
-
Beeger,
Iv taken a ride with Warbird Adventures. It was an incredible time.
I did the full A/C manuvers thing, We did Several loops, Yo Yo turns, Cuban Eight, and Even the Barnstormer Roll. I was pretty into it. The G Forces are Very cool, and Yes, they take more out of you than folks realise.
Another thing, Did you have to Trim the A/C during a manuvere, I know I never did, Just get a fairly neutral Trim and go.
I was trying to be pretty hardcore, So I flew inverted and with lots of Gs, Its the Negitive Gs that always get me. I am proud to report, I flew Manuvers till I puked! (yes had a bag)
The Funniest Thing is watching my Video from the flight. The entire Time I flew with my hand on the Stick, With my Trigger Finger extended, Just like you might hold your Joystick ready to fire the Guns.
I do agree, this is well worth the money, and recommend the flight to anyone.
-
I am currently getting my solo in a CAP-10 Aerobatic trainer, and Beegerite, if you fly aerobatics for some time, you'll find out that your body gets used to the rapid change in acceleration in less time than you'd think.
Loops are the safest figure to do with a first-timer, since you go from .5 to 1G all the way up to 3-4G... they'll feel a bit heavy, for sure, but nothing they can't withstand.
Rolls, spins, and all sorts of turning around the longitudinal or vertical axis, now that's different... be sure to have your vomit bags at hand :D
Ah, and on zero G and inverted flying, my personal experience (having flown on the Airbus 300 Zero-G for a parabollic flight campaign with the European Space Agency) is that Zero-G is much much difficult to adapt to than minus whatever Gs, since negative Gs is just like being hung upside down (you can try that at home, the sensation is almost the same when flying inverted).
Oh, and do NOT tape or take pictures when during a maneouver, since it's a sure way to get you nausea. Just relax and enjoy the flight if you do not have experience.
Have fun! ;)
Daniel
PS: One of the spins I have taped in the CAP-10, if you are interested, is at: http://casal.upc.es/danig27/barrena.rm
(Barrena is spin in spanish ;) )
-
Very true Cyrano
A big difference that you now what's happening and when...
My instructor once greyed me out at about 4g because i was totaly unaware and looking somewhere else when he pulled up... that's a very nauseating experience ;)
-
Congrats Bee !
I flew with Warbirds Adventures back about 4 years ago. Thom (prononced "Tom") was my instructor pilot, and we flew the silver/natural metal finish Texan (actually a SNJ-6). In fact I'm on their website. :)
I know they also have a yellow Texan they fly sometimes.
I challenged him before we flew "If you don't make me throw up after I get off this airplane, I'll be disappointed" hehehe. And boy did he try :D I'm just glad I don't get airsick, and have a fairly high G tolerance (according to him). We ended up pulling just about 5 G's, and the only time I grayed out was similar to Duckwing, I was watching the scenery and not paying attention when he started a hard manuever and got about 80% tunnel vision. Otherwise I loved it.
Must admitt though, I was scared too death when I flew the Immelman and stalled at the flip over. It rotated 2.5 times before I caught it, mostly because I was so startled when it stalled that I hesitated and didn't begin the recovery immediately.
Next time I'm in Kissimme (sp?) I'm definitely going to go again. !! :) :)
-
Beegs
I did it on 4/1/2002 in the green one. It was a blast!
When were u there?
(http://www.pogbird.com/t6cockpit.jpg)
(http://www.pogbird.com/t6.jpg)
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=463920 G edited this one up for me :)
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=464031
Yep, those loops did me in too, no barf just messed with the head
-
Hey,
This means you all must have wandered over to Tom Riellys place too... that place is So cool! I remember stumbling into a P38 cockpit out in the weeds!
-
Akira;
It was around 4:30 p.m. on 04/30 and 05/02 south of the Kissimmee, Florida airport near a lake they call Horsehead Lake but I believe is actually named Lake Marion.
Beeg
Originally posted by CDR Akira
Beeg guess what?
I saw your not from the tube but live
when did this happen and was there a lake near by
Cause i saw you with binoculars:D
-
Grimm;
Better you than me Mullet! Maybe I'm just getting too old but the damm loop knocked me through a loop LOL. One thing I did notice as far as trim is concerned is that it's pretty sensitive and works well on the Texan. The CFI explained to me that those of us with civilian light plane experience are always applying too much back pressure to the AT-6. Unlike a 150, 172 or Cherokee it doesn't loose much lift in a turn and whenever I turned and applied the back pressure I was used to using the sucker would climb like a rocket.
Beeg
Originally posted by Grimm
Beeger,
Iv taken a ride with Warbird Adventures. It was an incredible time.
I did the full A/C manuvers thing, We did Several loops, Yo Yo turns, Cuban Eight, and Even the Barnstormer Roll. I was pretty into it. The G Forces are Very cool, and Yes, they take more out of you than folks realise.
Another thing, Did you have to Trim the A/C during a manuvere, I know I never did, Just get a fairly neutral Trim and go.
I was trying to be pretty hardcore, So I flew inverted and with lots of Gs, Its the Negitive Gs that always get me. I am proud to report, I flew Manuvers till I puked! (yes had a bag)
The Funniest Thing is watching my Video from the flight. The entire Time I flew with my hand on the Stick, With my Trigger Finger extended, Just like you might hold your Joystick ready to fire the Guns.
I do agree, this is well worth the money, and recommend the flight to anyone.
-
Cyrano;
The CFI did mention to me that your body will get used to the G Forces in no time and I do remember reading something or other on the subject some time ago. Actually I liked the aeleron roll and didn't have any problem as evidenced by the fact that I was more than willing to do one myself after a demo. The loop was another case altogether. I lost absolutely no face in telling Erik, "that'll do!" Lucky for me that this old bird is 57 years old 2 1/2 years younger than me and somewhat protected in that they will not do snap rolls or any other sudden and stressful maneuvers. In any case, it was a fun experience whose most important goal was achieved in getting me back into the sky after 15 years.
Beeg
P.D. La pelicula de la barrena es macanuda. Cuando estudie para ser instructor es la uniqua vez que he tenido el placer (je je) de practicar esa maniobra. Como informe, aunque soy Americano, mi padre era Peruano y yo vivi en el Peru cuando chico. Tambien he tenido el placer de visitar a tu lindo pais.
Originally posted by CyranoAH
I am currently getting my solo in a CAP-10 Aerobatic trainer, and Beegerite, if you fly aerobatics for some time, you'll find out that your body gets used to the rapid change in acceleration in less time than you'd think.
Loops are the safest figure to do with a first-timer, since you go from .5 to 1G all the way up to 3-4G... they'll feel a bit heavy, for sure, but nothing they can't withstand.
Rolls, spins, and all sorts of turning around the longitudinal or vertical axis, now that's different... be sure to have your vomit bags at hand :D
Ah, and on zero G and inverted flying, my personal experience (having flown on the Airbus 300 Zero-G for a parabollic flight campaign with the European Space Agency) is that Zero-G is much much difficult to adapt to than minus whatever Gs, since negative Gs is just like being hung upside down (you can try that at home, the sensation is almost the same when flying inverted).
Oh, and do NOT tape or take pictures when during a maneouver, since it's a sure way to get you nausea. Just relax and enjoy the flight if you do not have experience.
Have fun! ;)
Daniel
PS: One of the spins I have taped in the CAP-10, if you are interested, is at: http://casal.upc.es/danig27/barrena.rm
(Barrena is spin in spanish ;) )
-
Verm;
Crazy boy!!! After thinking a bit about it, I suspect I may have set myself up because I had been video taping with my camcorder just prior to doing the loop. Maybe next time I'll just keep my eyeballs outside and enjoy the view. One thing for sure is that I'm gonna dust off all those ratings I have and get back to flying even if it's the straight and level variety.
I believe they have a total of 4 Texans including the one in your picture. There are a couple of privately owned ones also which seem to be in pretty good shape. By the way, not mentioned before, the whole place is a restoration museum and I saw various other airplanes in various stages of restoration e.g. B25, Mig-29 and a few others.
Here's an interesting sidelight. I went to the Lancaster, Pa. airport yesterday to inquire about getting re-certified and upon walking into the flight school I spied a sign that said Welcome To Lancaster Air Combat USA They had these neat Italian trainers all painted up in Air Force colors and I understand they offer the true dogfighting experience for a minimum of $895 Since I already blew $600 and wanted to keep the family jewels I opted to wait till they come back in October. However, check out their website at http://www.aircombatusa.com
Beeg
Originally posted by Vermillion
Congrats Bee !
I flew with Warbirds Adventures back about 4 years ago. Thom (prononced "Tom") was my instructor pilot, and we flew the silver/natural metal finish Texan (actually a SNJ-6). In fact I'm on their website. :)
I know they also have a yellow Texan they fly sometimes.
I challenged him before we flew "If you don't make me throw up after I get off this airplane, I'll be disappointed" hehehe. And boy did he try :D I'm just glad I don't get airsick, and have a fairly high G tolerance (according to him). We ended up pulling just about 5 G's, and the only time I grayed out was similar to Duckwing, I was watching the scenery and not paying attention when he started a hard manuever and got about 80% tunnel vision. Otherwise I loved it.
Must admitt though, I was scared too death when I flew the Immelman and stalled at the flip over. It rotated 2.5 times before I caught it, mostly because I was so startled when it stalled that I hesitated and didn't begin the recovery immediately.
Next time I'm in Kissimme (sp?) I'm definitely going to go again. !! :) :)
-
My old mullet squaddie;
Know what, I was thinking about you cause I remember you live down there in Orange land. I was there on 04/30 and 05/02 I'm glad to find somebody with the same experience instead of some of these young mullets who probably play AH hanging upside down from a rope connected to their ceiling fan ;-) The way I described my experience was that I was woozy and queezy and felt like I had to puke, dump and burp all at the same time LOL.
Beeg
Originally posted by Eagler
Beegs
I did it on 4/1/2002 in the green one. It was a blast!
When were u there?
(http://www.pogbird.com/t6cockpit.jpg)
(http://www.pogbird.com/t6.jpg)
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=463920 G edited this one up for me :)
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=464031
Yep, those loops did me in too, no barf just messed with the head
-
You have no idea how much this post puts my mind at ease! I took the plunge, well you know, back this last December when we were on vacation at Disney. My wife surprised me with her immediate approval upon my hinting on going up. Well, I too lost the urge for the acrobatics after looping. I also did the same thing in the roll... fed forward stick when inverted... and felt the corn-chips I had eaten on the way to the museum making their way back up my throat in a most unpleasant fashion with the onset of the negative g force. The instructor was cool and didn't sound judgemental at all. They must get a kick out of us "sim-warriors" turning green.
Anyway, I quickly gained a whole new level of respect for those guys who did this in WW2 for real. I also got to fly the green plane (Army) which was sort of right because I had served in the Army... in the infantry though.
If I have the opportunity to do it again I will in a heartbeat! This from a guy who HATES rollercoasters and especially all things G'zy... is that a word???
A must-do thing if in the area and the opportunity presents itself.
Lonz
PS One thing I noticed though about the Texan's FM was that it loses speed way too fast when slowing to land, we didn't once have to sideslip or twisty-turn to make it on the runway.
-
Jeje Beeg, si vienes alguna vez a España dímelo y te llevo a dar una vuelta por aquí ;)
Daniel
-
Hey Beeg.. I live in Orlando and flown with these guy's twice now..lol I can't get enough..guess you can call me a junkie..
But theres nothing like hanging by the seat belt upside down!!! Well..maybe the rush of 4g's at the end of this loop!
-
Hehe I agree, 4G at the end of a loop is one of my favorite moments... and if at the end you feel the bump caused by your own trail it is very rewarding :)
Inverted flight is fun, but mainly if there's another plane nearby so you can show off :D
(http://www.aeroclub-bs.com/images/avion4.gif)
A humpty-bump is quite exciting as well, I'll try to tape one next time I go flying with the CAP-10.
Cheers,
Daniel
-
i like the weightlessness on top of a hammerhead turn the most ... of course in a glider it's the best because it's really really quiet too ...
and the occasional barrel roll with the shed is fun too ;)
-
I think I liked the Cuban 8 much more than the simple loop hehehe. Alot more exhilirating! And the Immelman was quite fun too, cause I got to practice my spin recovery (was the only time I got really scared).
Here is a pic of my flight from the cockpit from their website. I don't wear glasses anymore, but people at the con who've met me can vouch that its me.
(http://www.warbirdadventures.com/img32.gif)
And here is their bird that I flew.
(http://www.warbirdadventures.com/img33.gif)
-
Nothing wrong with flying straight and level :D I plan to do just that by getting back into the swing of things. Have even been thinking to do it quick enough to fly myself to the con in Dallas. Can't trust them airline jocks! I agree about the speed in the AT-6, drop them flaps and she comes down a helling.
Beeg
Originally posted by DmdBT
You have no idea how much this post puts my mind at ease! I took the plunge, well you know, back this last December when we were on vacation at Disney. My wife surprised me with her immediate approval upon my hinting on going up. Well, I too lost the urge for the acrobatics after looping. I also did the same thing in the roll... fed forward stick when inverted... and felt the corn-chips I had eaten on the way to the museum making their way back up my throat in a most unpleasant fashion with the onset of the negative g force. The instructor was cool and didn't sound judgemental at all. They must get a kick out of us "sim-warriors" turning green.
Anyway, I quickly gained a whole new level of respect for those guys who did this in WW2 for real. I also got to fly the green plane (Army) which was sort of right because I had served in the Army... in the infantry though.
If I have the opportunity to do it again I will in a heartbeat! This from a guy who HATES rollercoasters and especially all things G'zy... is that a word???
A must-do thing if in the area and the opportunity presents itself.
Lonz
PS One thing I noticed though about the Texan's FM was that it loses speed way too fast when slowing to land, we didn't once have to sideslip or twisty-turn to make it on the runway.
-
The one manuever I don't see anyone talking about in this post is the good ol' Thunderbird move.....First, pull up until you are veticle, then smack the stick to on side or the other. Oh yeah, don't forget to yell "Thunderbirds!!!!!!" .
Now that is a real bellybutton kicker! You ask how do I know? Hehe, did it in an F-16 over the Gila Bend Training Range outside of Phoenix, Az back in late 1995.
All you G junkies out there, there ain't no better way to get G's except in an F-16! Best damn roller coaster ride in the world! Ok, an F-15 would be cool too.
:eek:
Anyway, lost my cookies on that ride an only posted a 5.5 G-load. That is pretty funny considering during the pre-flight briefing the pilot said we could do 9 G's but frankly, in his words, "It hurts."
I will try to dig up the pics.
It's pretty funny, before we leave I have an ear to ear grin and when I get back you can't tell where I end and my (green) flight suit begins....LOL!
Dano