Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: beet1e on May 06, 2002, 04:09:01 AM
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Gentlemen,
I have been using the Belarc Advisor program on mine and other PCs. It provides an enormously detailed report on your PC, including the different versions of software that are installed, the hardware etc. I think it would be useful to provide this information when posing a question in this forum about a hardware or software problem. Download it now! It's only about 588K. Try it out, and post back here to let me know what you think.
URL is http://www.belarc.com/Download.html
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My little sister in Michigan is computer illiterate, and I was trying to help her out with a problem without knowing anything about her computer.
I sent her the advisor with instructions how to install it, run it, and email me the results. Bingo! I know exactly what she's got now. Saved me a lot of phone time. Thanks
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thanks for the info a very usefull little progam will save loads of work trying to find all the info out when i have a problem
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yes, very neat - will come in handy - ty
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Thanks BEETLE, that was great info tip you posted on Belarc. I just ried it out and in notime flat it showed me everything my puter has. Only problem I have is its says my KMD athlon is 1150mz, It should be 1.5 or the same as a 1.9 according to AMD. A friend was in my BIOS set-up a while back when I was having some problems, do you think he could have changed something in there? I am pretty sad when it comes to computers, even tho I try to help myself as much as I can LOL.
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Sirch,
There is a real good chance that your FSB got changed to 100 instead of 133, assuming that is what your motherboard is supposed to be. It is very easy to change back. Enter your bios /advanced/cpu timing. I am guessing your multiplier is 11.5.
Multiplied by 100 = 1150 multiplied by 133 = 1529.5
If your motherboard has a FSB of 266 make sure your FSB is set to 133 in your Bios. Won't hurt to check.
DJ229
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Daverino
Maybe you can help me! MY bus clock is showing as 100MHz. But the memory and motherboard should support 133. Should the bus clock speed therefore be 133 also? I've found the mobo settings that I would need to change, but right now it's set to 1.2GHz which is OK (?) because it's an Athlon 1.2GHz processor. I don't want to overclock the thing, but should I at least address the bus clock speed?
Here's my Belarc report (.MHT web archive - open with browser) - should you need it. You wont see Aces High in the software list. That's on the other hard drive.
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Beetle,
I am certainly not an expert, I just noticed the relationship in Sirch's cpu freq and bus speed. When bus speed and multiplier multiplied they always equal cpu speed. In your case you would need a multiplier of 9 x 133 to equal 1.2 ghz. If you change FSB to 133 I would think you also have to change multiplyer to 9? My A7M266 has very limited adjustments and I am not familiar with your board. Maybe you can get Bloom or some other expert to help. Sorry I can't be more help.
DJ229
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Thanks DAVENRINO. I just now finished going into the bios set-up, you were right my clock speed was set at 100. After much clicking with the arrow keys thru all the combinations, the best I could get was 133 and 1133 multiplier. I chose this because it was the closest to 133X1150. Now cpu speed is back to 1533 where it was when I first recieved it. Also when I benchmark the system (logical) it is right up there on the hi end. When I benchmark (physical) it is between lo end and medium. This is higher than it was before I made these changes. (it was LO end). I really dont remember if the physical was this way when I first received my puter (it may have been). The logical readout is where it was when I first got this machine. It also appeasrs to be much faster like it usewd to be when loading pages and such. I know it has a heavy duty fan so I dont think it will overheat.
Thanks again for your help
:) :cool:
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Pretty cool program (had seen it on Crucial's Site)
One bug, it says my laptop's Pentium II cpu is a Celeron...according to IBM, and my manual, its a Pentium 2...perhaps it has a hard time reading laptop CPUs that use differing voltage, etc?
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Wonder if this is a Microsft company in disguise? Anyway someone knows more of what's on one of my computers now then I do
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Davenrino,
Well, I sure know a lot more about bus clock speeds and multipliers than I did this morning!
I had a go at modifying the FSB (front side bus) speed on my BIOS. I changed it from 100MHz to 133MHz. But oh! When I tried to boot up, my system just died. The monitor went into standby mode and remained blank. According to the Asus A7V133 mobo manual, the system can become unstable, or hang, with some settings, but you're supposed to be able to restart the BIOS in safe mode. That didn't happen, so I had a dead PC that I could not start.
Luckily I had a copy of ADOBE and my mobo manual in .PDF format on a CD, so I took the CD to a friend's house and printed out the pages concerned with setting up the mobo in jumper mode or jumper free mode. I realise now that the multiplier is set at 12, and this is correct. The other value, 100MHz is multiplied by the first value to give a result of 1200 - and that's as it should be for my Athlon 1.2GHz, given that I do not want to overclock it. I had to open up the case and move one jumper to set jumper mode, then set one bank of DIP switches to give a multiplier of 12, and the other bank of switches to specify 100MHz bus clock speed. After that, the system booted up again just fine.
I think I'll leave those settings alone from now on!
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The more I look at the info that this program produces the more I would suggest people to think twice about using it. Damn thing even tells you your key for your Operatinfg System. This information is returned to you through your web browser. What if all this info went into a data base and was cross referenced? If you had more then 1 computer and used the same OS CD on both computers someone will know it real soon. A data base would spit your number out IP and damn, the whole population of the U.S. will be in jail. Can you take simulators to prison?
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Beetle,
Sorry you had such big problems and glad you got it going again. That is why I didn't suggest you change anything before you got advice from someone who really knows what they are doing. I have never even tried any overclocking . My A7M266/1.4 Tbird is set at stock setting of 133 x 10.5 and Sirch's 1.5 Ath is supposed to be at 133 FSB. Hmm.. you tried to start your puter at 12 x 133=1596mhz no wonder it refused to start.
DJ229
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I'm trying to help someone atm and that was just what i needed Beetle
thanks a lot :)
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As Peter said (Peter is the guy whose laptop I used to read my mobo manual) When you get a real problem on your hands, you always learn something. Yep, sure do. Not just about the hardware, but also that I should have printed that section of the mobo manual before I started :D
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This thing is free AND connects to the internet? LOL.
I wouldn't touch it with a long stick if I were you.
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Of course, if you all have good personal firewalls, you shouldn't be worried about this, right? After all, you'd be able to see if it actually connected to the internet (and more) instead of just using your browser to show you the results.
Get a good firewall like Norton Internet Security, it'll show you what's happening.
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Oh well I'm not sure what I did when I changed those settings, now I am having trouble booting my puter also. I now get lockups after playing AH for a while. I don't think its overclocking, but I'm not sure. I have to shut power off and switch it back to reboot now after a lock up. I must have changed something in there for this to happen. Goin back in to choose the option there that gives me the previous setting and see what that does. If it works like before I will live with the 1150mz speed, until I can get a Pro in to fix it. When it rains it pours, the dam UPS guy just left without waiting for us to answer the door, he has my Cougar with him. So much for paying $33 bucks for 2 day air delivery. LOL my wife was running down the block after this guy. ( I was sleeping after just getting home from a double shift):(
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Heh at least you didn't find out UPS had left the goods for customs declaration without noticing the receiver.. I had a shipment returned to sender overseas because of their lousy service.
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sirch -
Yes, sounds like you made a mistake like mine.
Run Belarc and then post back here to say what mobo you have, and I will look at the manual for it.
I can see why manufacturers like AMD advise against overclocking.
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Overclocking is great if you know what you're doing.
If you don't even know what a FSB is, don't play with any bios settings.
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Oh the talented MrRipley speaks - yet again. Gawd, I thought I posted a lot, but Ripley has posted hundreds more threads than me in a much shorter time. Where would the world's computer expertise be without you, Mr. Ripley!
I can tell you that I built my PC from the ground up, starting only with an existing case and power supply.
If you don't even know what a FSB is, don't play with any bios settings.
Oh yeah, like I did it without setting up the BIOS settings - LOL
You want to overclock? Be my guest. But when I read all the posts in here about people who have had problems that have been difficult to solve, often there's a reason such as overclocking. I listen to guys with experience, like bloom25, and ndrtkr over on the WB AGW board. But I also pay attention to manufacturers' recommendations. And if they advise against overclocking, then I for one am not going to do it. I'll buy a more powerful processor instead.
Just for the record, here's an excerpt from the Asus A7V133 mobo manual. All except MrRipley, please read the last paragraph. MrRipley need not read it because he knows more about computer components than the manufacturers themselves. :rolleyes:
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I had a go at modifying the FSB (front side bus) speed on my BIOS. I changed it from 100MHz to 133MHz. But oh! When I tried to boot up, my system just died. The monitor went into standby mode and remained blank. According to the Asus A7V133 mobo manual, the system can become unstable, or hang, with some settings, but you're supposed to be able to restart the BIOS in safe mode. That didn't happen, so I had a dead PC that I could not start.
That's exactly how an experienced user sets up his computer! Who was I to doubt your expertise. :rolleyes:
All manufacturers advise people not to overclock the hardware because it may lead to instability problems, shortened lifespan and derived from that, law suits on the manufacturer.
So instead they say guarantee is off if you OC, it's your own responsibility.
The truth however remains that with proper equipment and knowledge you can get a notable performance increase by overclocking - without losing stability or even lifespan in any meaningful way. My first overclocked PC is now over 3 years old and it's still running fine at it's new owner. It is overclocked by FSB and 30% over the specs. The price difference for a processor of similar speed would have been $200 at the time.
Another truth is that PC hardware is designed for a much longer lifespan than what it's real life use will be. Therefore an overclocked CPU may not last up to it's designed age but it will with fair certainty survive the 2-3 years which is the maximum useable lifetime of a modern computer. In fact I have several fully working cpu's in my closet collecting dust. I have no use for them.
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Yep, I made a mistake with the FSB setting. I changed it before I realised the clock multiplier was set to 12. All I said after that when I came to correct my error, which began by reading that mobo section, was that I realised that I had been set up at 1200MHz already, and did not want to overclock. So I effectively restored the status quo by means of disabling jumper free mode, and setting the parameters on the dip switches. Nothing else I could do.
When I upgraded to the Athlon, it made a big difference to Warbirds, which I was playing at the time. A 7-kill sortie in a 109F! - unthinkable before the CPU upgrade. But in Aces High I'm getting the results I want already. I know that my CPU is a year old now, and that there are much better ones available now. But I will neither upgrade nor overclock until there are clear indications that my Athlon 1.2 is not cutting the mustard. That time has not yet arrived. :D
Some people flog their cars by driving them at their limits much of the time. They might argue that they're only going to keep the car a couple of years, so to them it doesn't matter. (It's the poor sod to whom it's sold on who'll pay the price) And that's what springs to mind with your arguably cavalier approach to CPU overclocking. At the other end of the user spectrum, there are some guys here who have a pink fit that my Athlon idles at 55° Celsius!
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So I effectively restored the status quo by means of disabling jumper free mode, and setting the parameters on the dip switches. Nothing else I could do.
You could have just reseted the bios settings with the proper jumper and rebooted.
Some people flog their cars by driving them at their limits much of the time. They might argue that they're only going to keep the car a couple of years, so to them it doesn't matter. (It's the poor sod to whom it's sold on who'll pay the price) And that's what springs to mind with your arguably cavalier approach to CPU overclocking. At the other end of the user spectrum, there are some guys here who have a pink fit that my Athlon idles at 55° Celsius!
A car and a CPU cost a little different amounts of money, I certainly wouldn't risk damaging a $20 000 CPU.
You're also shortening the life of your hardware by running your CPU that hot, even without overclocking it.
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MrRipley!
You could have just reseted the bios settings with the proper jumper and rebooted.
I thought that's what I did... On the A7V133 board, there's a jumper which enables or disables jumper free mode. The default setting is to enable jumper free mode so that settings are modified in the BIOS. As I said before, because I made a mistake, I could not restart the PC at all. According to the mobo manual (page 62) it's supposed to restart in safe mode, but it didn't. So to force the correct settings, I had to do what I did. See the notes I have reproduced in the .ZIP file
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"I thought that's what I did... On the A7V133 board, there's a jumper which enables or disables jumper free mode. The default setting is to enable jumper free mode so that settings are modified in the BIOS."
I'm not really familiar with the Asus board, but switching from jumper free mode to bios control is not the same thing as clearing CMOS. Clearing CMOS just clears the settings to default in bios without any other jumper settings. After that the machine will autodetect your CPU and boot to proper settings if it has a jumper free configuration mode.
Find the 'clear CMOS' jumper on your board and after that you can switch settings back to jumper free mode and continue experiments with bios controllable FSB.
The key to overclocking is never to make big changes, change the FSB 1 Mhz at a time, reboot, test stability and if it works, push it higher. When temps rise too much or the system becomes unstable, turn the speed back a notch.
Under no circumstances should one change the fsb straight from 100 to 133 unless the speed has been detected wrong and the cpu / ram really support the speed.
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I note your remarks about CPU temps. My previous processor (AMD-K6-3 450MHz) ran for two years without incident. I've been running the Athlon for a year. I've got the mobo utility installed - Asus Probe - and the temperature the CPU runs at is well below the Asus defined threshold of 85° C :eek:
I've scoured the AMD website for further details on cooling, but all I could come up with is the attached guide, which gives no details about specific temperatures, but advises on cooling fan configuration. It seems to indicate that if you're using a recommended heatsink cooling fan, as I am, then everything should be OK - one of those no need to know issues. If you know different, please advise.
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Beetie it all depends on how hot your cpu becomes under extreme load.. The treshold of 85C means that the heat becomes damaging after it. It's not reckommended to run the cpu near to those levels for an extended period of time.
Often if the idle temp goes up to 50's it means much higher stress temperatures. That then could lead to crashing under load or even a damaged cpu. A good way to stress test the computer is to run pifast in cycles for an hour or so. If your computer hasn't crashed and / or heated severely, you have proper cooling.
If you want to void your warranty and experiment with overclocking, the first thing to do is to install an effective cooler to your cpu. It's absolutely essential. I have had a watercooled system for quite a while now. Effective and quiet.
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The highest temperature I've ever seen was 67°, which was immediately following an Aces High session shooting down N1Ks. I don't run anything more stressful than that. Besides, the Asus icon in the tray lights up to alert of a problem, and that has never happened.
Believe me, I've read all I can about this - from the Asus website, the AMD website, from various individuals - but can find nothing to indicate any problem. As for my warranty, if it's a one year warranty, that time has already passed.
By the way, on the mobo there IS a clear CMOS facility - you have to short out two solder points with the PC swiched off and disconnected. That clears the password (if one has been assigned) and probably restores ALL CMOS defaults. That's not what I wanted to do. I wanted only to revert to a valid CPU speed.
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I changed it before I realised the clock multiplier was set to 12.
In most cases the multiplier is hard coded inside the cpu and you can't change it from bios.
Some rare cpu's like Athlon 1400 are multiplier unlocked though. To older athlons you needed a device called gold finger in order to change the multiplier, newer athlons need just a couple bridges connected on top of the cpu. Those bridges are very tiny however so its not too easy.
So my guess is that you can't change the multiplier on your cpu even if you want to and therefore if it now runs at its spec speed at 1.2ghz and 100fsb, it's not meant to be run with 133 at all.
However if you put a badass cooler and increase the drive voltage you may reach that 133Mhz anyway. Remember that whatever you do, it's at your own risk.
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Also keep in mind that most people think of overclocking when they bother to talk about cpu temperatures. The standard coolers are just efficient enough for the standard use they're built for.
The extreme coolers are for the extreme users who want to tune every last bit of performance out of their computers. If you don't belong in this group, you're just fine with your standard cooling.
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Looks like my Athlon is one of those rare ones for which the multiplier value is unlocked, and can be set within the BIOS - see page 60. And in my system, the value was set to 12.
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Beet1e even if the bios has options to change the multiplier, it doesn't automatically mean you can do that. They're there even if the CPU is locked tight.
Only way to find out is to change the multiplier and see if your computer boots to another speed (but if you try, try to lower it not rise it..)
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As the MOBO Turns.
Wow this is great, better then watching Ozzie........... not that I would.
I had tried over clocking my A7V133 at one time also. I left the setting on Jumper Free Mode and it would not start.
As soon as I changed it to one of the other settings it started right into BIOS with the message that things didn't match. At the time I just went back to the 1400, 133 and jumper free (poetry hmmmmmmmmm). I also maintain the high performance I was getting of returning safely 1 out of 23 sorties.
When I saw the picture of the MB I knew it looked familure. I can tell you I know the cover of the A7V133 pretty good, right side up, upside down, sideways. It's the part between the covers that I am clueless about.
Anyway you two keep it up as I am writting a novel which I soon hope to be made into a movie. Mr. R and B do you have any one you would like to play your parts?
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Ripley,
If I'm running at 1.2GHz, that's fine. No need to try to overclock or underclock, whatever. The processor is adequate for AH usage. I don't need to run it on WEP.
Two things that you said don't seem to add up. On the one hand you said it's OK to overclock with a little knowledge blah blah blah, and on the other hand you said "You're also shortening the life of your hardware by running your CPU that hot, even without overclocking it." when I mentioned the idle temperature of 55°.
I'm not being sarcastic, but I have two questions: - Which, of these seemingly incongruous statements, is true?
- And if indeed a temperature of 55° is likely to shorten the life of a processor, can you provide me with any manufacturer's technical data to substantiate this? By that, I mean CPU manufacturer's data which provides the recommended operating parameters within which a CPU should run. I am not interested in finger in the air benchmarks supplied by those PC Geeks supposedly in the know.
sac1 - LOL! I want my part to be played by Anthony Hopkins.
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Beet1e I was just assuming that your load temperatures would be a lot higher with an idle temp that high..
Athlon has about 80C as the critical limit at which point it starts to take damage. Signs of instability may come earlier though.
I don't recall exact figures right now, but the main principle is the cooler the better.
If you would have read and understood what I wrote you'd gather the following:
Overclocking requires radical changes to the system including CPU voltage increase. That developes a lot of extra heat.
Even if you get a better cooler your CPU will be stressed more which will shorten the life of your CPU. That, however, doesn't matter since you won't be using your CPU that long anyway.
As what goes for the manufacturer, they can not under any circumstances give any guarantee to their equipment if a user is running it out of spec. This is just logical, otherwise they would have to pay every broken piece of hardware that the user broke with faulty settings.
Beet1e I really don't know what you're after with these questions, maybe it would help for you to know anyway that I earlier earned my income administering over a 100 workstations in 3 different cities and now later work as a software trainer / consultant. I'm not a finger in the air PC Geek but a professional.
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Beetie belarc report shows my mobo is an ABIT761-686B(KG7)rev:1.0 The clock speed is currently set at 133mz. My processor is a KMD ATHLON XP.
Thanks
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MrRipley! No need to get willied... :)
Yes, I read about overclocking needing higher voltages to be set, both in your posts and in the Asus mobo manual.
Ripley, I'm not saying that *you* are a geek; I was simply making the point that I am interested only in hard data from the manufacturers, and not overextrapolated nonsense by those with a bit of esoteric knowledge that they hope will make them sound like they know what they're talking about.
I was a programmer for many years - COBOL (later Assembler) on ICL and IBM mainframes. I was a DBA from 1986, first on IBM's IMS database, and more recently on IBM's relational database, DB2. In fact I was a freelance consultant, but the tax measures introduced by Tony Blair's government have made the freelance option unworkable :mad:
Don't forget to advise sac1 of your choice of actor for your part in his forthcoming movie :D
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Oh I thought he meant which actors I want 'handling my parts..'
I would have said Aria Giovanni probably :)
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sac1 - I think we've finished! Get those takes over to the cutting room.
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Beetie belarc report shows my mobo is an ABIT761-686B(KG7)rev:1.0 The clock speed is currently set at 133mz. My processor is a KMD ATHLON XP.
Thanks
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I have tested this and it does not connect to the net. Its only use the web browser to give the report.
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Sirch,
I had a look at the Abit website and the closest mobo type that I could find, based on your Belarc information, was the KG7. I've downloaded the manual, which seems to cover about three different models, and I'm reading it now.
As to the rest of your spec, I was amazed to see you're still running W98SE! Upgrade to something better! If you've got W2000, use that. I use W-ME because there's a problem for my stick drivers on 2000. I've never had a problem with ME, but bloom 25 doesn't like it :)
One thing I do notice about your Belarc report is that the BIOS you have there is out of date. There have been at least three updates since your version (08/10/2001 - August 10 or October 8?) and the latest BIOS updates relate to providing support for the Athlon XP processor which you have. I would recommend downloading the latest BIOS upgrade and applying it using the Flash Update procedure. That should solve some of the problems you are having. If you've never done a flash update of the BIOS before, let me know, and I will help you. It's not something you want to cock up.
In the meantime, I'm reading your mobo manual about the clock settings etc.
See the Abit website page (http://www.abit.com.tw/abitweb/webjsp/english/download_content.jsp?pTITLE=KG7+%2F+KG7-RAID+%2F+KG7-Lite&#Utility) to locate the latest version of the BIOS and also the mobo manual which is in .PDF format.
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Thanx Beet1e, I just finished going back in BIOS set-up and clicked on optimize defaults. This put me back to 100 clock speed and 1111150 total mz. Then I connected the cougar and this time my puter recognized it. It asked my my windows disc to get the drivers ini. file and it loaded up and now the cougar is working. I just ried it in AH with just the basics loaded, it worked perfectly after i calibrated it in the game. This baby really stays put no creeping or wandering or anything. I am sure my puter needs all those updates, and I'm surely not running with all the juice its capable of. But for now its working. I will continue to read your posts and try to follow along thanx again:)
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Sac1 a serious answer to your question: I'd like Willem Dafoe to play my part, thanks!
Sirch you should always make sure first your mobo bios supports the cpu you're installing! If it gets detected wrong your mobo may feed it with a false voltage setting and that could fry it!
New cpu's are made with smaller die process and therefore use lower voltages..
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But if you need info I suggest typing Hwinfo.exe /ui (Win98) in the run menu. ;)
More info than the average user will ever need.
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MrRipley - noted, but I think sirch does need to update the BIOS for that processor. Could you please look at that Abit website and confirm? Seems like his mobo was designed with the Athlon series in mind.
I updated my BIOS a month or two ago. It went fine. Later, I tried to apply another update about which I wan't sure, but AFLASH detected a compatibility problem and issued a warning. So I left the previous version in place - the one to which I upgraded the previous time.
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Mr. R
I was just thinking of William Defoe the other day when I saw he was replaced as Clark in The Sum of All Fears.
It's a shame they didn't stick with the book as to who the bad guys are. All thiis political correctness crap reminds me of the story about the empore that had no clothes on.
Anyway B, some how I think the finger in the air was given to you, but it wasn't testing the wind.
Ok guys I'm a little confused, who wanted to be Elmer Fudd, and who wanted to be Daffy?
Seriously B, your 1.2 is about a gig behind the times. Save your beer money and let Mr R get you a new MB and CPU whole sale. You can get together at the con and build the puter together.
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Sac1,
Seriously B, your 1.2 is about a gig behind the times.
I use my PC for all the usual web surfing, email, and Aces High. The Athlon performs just fine - so why would I need to change it? Hmm, sounds like tail wagging dog to me. I know there are faster processors out now, but that in no way invalidates what I've got. If you can give me a reason to upgrade, I will definitely look into it. But upgrading just because what I have is not the latest is not a sufficient reason. It would be a whole different kettle of fish if I were to be buying now out of necessity. Then, I might go for an Athlon XP 2.4 - or whatever it is.