Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Apache on May 06, 2002, 06:54:58 AM
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Come on, at least give an attempt to fly your virtual bomber the way it was intended.
I'm sure the guys in the back jumped for joy when the pilot said, "I'm gonna fly this B17 50 feet off the ground while you guys shoot at the bad guys. We're gonna die, but, oh well".
Gamey. Always has been IMO. Seems to be the same few everytime I see it.
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no doudt its rediculous. Folks wonder why fluffers get no respect.
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Agreed, Ackstarring sucks.
Ackstar drivers are tards.
Dago
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Thanks guys for reminding it, I will add it to my "To Do" list. :)
Fariz
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ackstars are easy kills. What's the problem?
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no doudt its rediculous. Folks wonder why fluffers get no respect
You're right how can we when idiots like you put players who like to fly bombers in the same catagory as those who game the game and ackstar.
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My problem isn't with gunned buffs as much as a simple pilot-gunned buff.
Seems I'm always working up to a belly shot on a Lanc and at about 1.5d he will start to bank over and start shooting at the same time. Then it's try to set up for the same shot only to be thwarted by the rudder/gunner. Of course, the Lanc is climbing the entire time.
Why is the the gunner allowed rudder control? :confused: It would seem that a pilot-gunned buff should go on autopilot. That way, if I saw a buff which was manuevering and shooting I'd be just a little more wary.
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How dare they not fly straight and level for you Alpo!!
Tell us who these offenders are and we will have them flogged for you.:rolleyes:
The gaul they must have to try to survive.
On a more serious note: What makes you think the tail gunner had no comms with the pilot?
Hey Fred?
Yeah Bob?
Could ya kick a bit to the right, we got an nme fighter trying to tickle our tummy.
Sure...Hang on fellas.
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I would like to address two points here...
[1]... I would bet you a beer at the Con, that the pilots upping Ackstars or Death Stars whichever you prefer... are generally not dedicated Buff pilots...
[2]... If you take the rudder control away from the pilot gunner you take the sport out of the buff pilot being able to defend himself... Geesh guys, You want someone to fly for 30 minutes to get to thier target and then make them fly level and in a straight line... so you can shoot them down easier ?
Maybe HT could program buffs so when a fighter gets within 1000 yds the guns are disabled in the buff,,, That would give ya a quick easy kill....:eek:
I tip my hat to the guys that are dedicated Buff Pilots... Man ya gotta have the patience of JOB to fly those things... I have flown them enough to recognize the frustration that is involved in flying these birds... I say Give the Buffers an even chance... If anything allow them to carry more than one gunner !!! :cool:
BOOT
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Seems I'm always working up to a belly shot on a Lanc and at about 1.5d he will start to bank over and start shooting at the same time. Then it's try to set up for the same shot only to be thwarted by the rudder/gunner. Of course, the Lanc is climbing the entire time.
Why is the the gunner allowed rudder control? It would seem that a pilot-gunned buff should go on autopilot. That way, if I saw a buff which was manuevering and shooting I'd be just a little more wary.
The Lancaster pilots would often use a defensive corkscrew manouvre co-ordinated by their gunners calling to give them positions of enemy fighters. Why should'nt the gunner get at least rudder control? in RL you'd still have the pilot making corrections as I've said above but this thread is not about that its about those who feel the need to game the game and send their buff round a field at low level.
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Originally posted by BOOT
Snip...... I say Give the Buffers an even chance... If anything allow them to carry more than one gunner !!! :cool:
BOOT
Actually they kinda do BOOT.
For Instance if a con is diving from High 6 on a buff and the gunner is in the Tail position, if he uses the Alt-Fire (same button for cannon on fighters) the Tail pos will fire and any other pos that is able to track the con, say the Top turret for instance.
So, it's kinda like having multiple gunners but you can still only track one con with the guns.
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Originally posted by Preon1
ackstars are easy kills. What's the problem?
Nobody said they weren't easy. Still dweeby.
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Originally posted by Apache
Nobody said they weren't easy. Still dweeby.
A think membrane exists between "Dweeby" and "Fun"...take, for example, the N1K. :)
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revvin is one of those wb ai ack stars no doudt.
I have killed plenty of buffs 7 in 1 sortie in a g10
i killed 10 in 2 frames of big week scenario plus 5 assists.
I dont care how much you like fluffin its still rediculously easy and has far to great an impact of gameplay. Ackstarring is just an extension of the fluffers need for attention.
whats it take to auto take off auto climb auto level then look through the laser site and push a button. wow tough sortie
:rolleyes:
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I have killed plenty of buffs 7 in 1 sortie in a g10
i killed 10 in 2 frames of big week scenario plus 5 assists.
LOL ooh you big tough guy :rolleyes: does it make you feel more masculine puffing your chest out like that? LOL
I've never ack starred and never will however tempting it is to watch you wannabe luftwobbles get your leather panties all bunched trying to kill them. Never ceases to amuse me how people complain about ackstars and yet puff their chest out and say they have no problem killing buffs...if you don't then why are you not just shooting down these easy targets? :rolleyes:
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whatever ackstar...
Apache dont fly lw
it aint chest thumpin its clarifying the point so when I say I dislike fluffing ackstars I dont get a 100 thread post telling me how to kill umm.
always some spit dweeb throwing out lw card :rolleyes:
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Oh sweet Jebus NO! Someone is actually having fun with their money while at the same time not using the equipment as it was intended! I say we petition HT to kick them out of the game! Ooh, maybe we could also take this opportunity to do a write-up on proper use of each aircraft in the planeset so that we can present it to HT for integration into the Terms of Service!
SOB
BTW...thanks for bringing up the N1k2, Rip, this thread wouldn't be complete without it.
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it aint chest thumpin its clarifying the point so when I say I dislike fluffing ackstars I dont get a 100 thread post telling me how to kill umm
so if they are soo easy to kill why are you not killing them with ease?
If we're going to write up guides for each plane then the Luftwobble one would be along the lines of:
- Fly round like a big girls blouse at high alt pushing forward on the stick ocassionaly and pressing the fire button. Don't turn, infact un-map the X axis of your joystick you'll never need it it and always always whine about your guns not being big enough and always always insist there is a conspiracy against luftwobble planes in Aces high.
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Originally posted by SOB
Oh sweet Jebus NO! Someone is actually having fun with their money while at the same time not using the equipment as it was intended! I say we petition HT to kick them out of the game! Ooh, maybe we could also take this opportunity to do a write-up on proper use of each aircraft in the planeset so that we can present it to HT for integration into the Terms of Service!
SOB
BTW...thanks for bringing up the N1k2, Rip, this thread wouldn't be complete without it.
hehe, your point was my point. If its there, and its possible, folks will do it! Its their money. Best you can do as a consumer is avoid it (Up a different field, come back and kill them as they egress!) (By the way, I *have* flown low over a field when friendly fighters were low in numbers to "cap" a field, just yesterday our B26's turned into F26's when we went on an unescorted field capture.)
:)
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Originally posted by BOOT
I would like to address two points here...
[1]... I would bet you a beer at the Con, that the pilots upping Ackstars or Death Stars whichever you prefer... are generally not dedicated Buff pilots...
[2]... If you take the rudder control away from the pilot gunner you take the sport out of the buff pilot being able to defend himself... Geesh guys, You want someone to fly for 30 minutes to get to thier target and then make them fly level and in a straight line... so you can shoot them down easier ?
Maybe HT could program buffs so when a fighter gets within 1000 yds the guns are disabled in the buff,,, That would give ya a quick easy kill....:eek:
I tip my hat to the guys that are dedicated Buff Pilots... Man ya gotta have the patience of JOB to fly those things... I have flown them enough to recognize the frustration that is involved in flying these birds... I say Give the Buffers an even chance... If anything allow them to carry more than one gunner !!! :cool:
BOOT
Wow
Well said, I owe you a beer.
I enjoy my Lancaster/Ar 234 flights....long, boring, and usually unappreciated :) Oh well!
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
hehe, your point was my point. If its there, and its possible, folks will do it! Its their money. Best you can do as a consumer is avoid it (Up a different field, come back and kill them as they egress!) (By the way, I *have* flown low over a field when friendly fighters were low in numbers to "cap" a field, just yesterday our B26's turned into F26's when we went on an unescorted field capture.)
:)
Yeah, I know you weren't whinin'...I just wanted to point out that no plane whine thread is truly complete without some mention of the N1k2. :)
SOB
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Yeah, hehe. Laugh it up. I'll be waiting on the next cv hidin' post.
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Originally posted by Apache
Yeah, hehe. Laugh it up. I'll be waiting on the next cv hidin' post.
Hehehe!
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you want me to post my kills vrs spits over the last few tours?
I rarely fly over 13k.
But that aint the point this is thread by apache and simply posted my agreement with his opinion.
you start with crap like this
You're right how can we when idiots like you put players who like to fly bombers in the same catagory as those who game the game and ackstar.
I then demonstrate to you that the whole of AH buffing is as "gamey" as ya can get. whether from 2k on the deck flying spraying or from 20k. Theres nothing to buffing that borders on "simulation".
I put all buffers in the same category. Its gaming pure and simple.
That said check my buff ranks going back a few tours. As you will see I sometimes fly umm. Under 3 hours a tour mostly outa 40 or so total. But that doesnt make them anything but what they are.
and rip its is there money and I dont think anyone is saying "ht stop this". They are just calling it like they see it. :)
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How can playing a Game be anything but Gamey....
Just sayin.....
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Originally posted by Wotan
and rip its is there money and I dont think anyone is saying "ht stop this". They are just calling it like they see it. :)
Well in that case, then EVERYTHING you do in AH is "dweeby"..if you fly a Dora and defeat a 190A8 its dweeby, if you fly Zero and defeat a SpitIV its dweeby...get my point? ;)
Only in the CT or Special events will most "Dweeby" tags be dropped, in the meanwhile, the MA is basically a "Free for all" proven many times in 3 years. I like to refer to the MA as "The easy mode arena" ;)
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no not necessarily
in poker you can play 5 card stud nothing wild jacks or better to open
or 7 card no peek with 6 wildcards and black sevens your out
both are a "game" but when I play fer real money I want a serious "game".
You can do what ever you like in the main. Thats what its about.
But dont take offense when someone points out they believe it to be beyond what most people want out of the game. Thats why everyone aint ackstarrin.
Also even in events buffs are gamey. I refer ya to BW :)
I like everything about the main but my current conection.
a buff upping at 100 feet and driving around is like playing poker with a guy that folds every hand without checking his cards :)
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Originally posted by Grimm
How can playing a Game be anything but Gamey....
Just sayin.....
Good question. This has been debated many times and for ages it seems like. What are these things we spend so much time in?
Is it an air combat game that uses WWII aircraft?
Is it a simulator that tries to depict WWII?
Is it ?
Apparently my error is in assuming it is a simulation of WWII air combat. There seems to be an enormous amount of detail in the flight models, damage models, gunnery, balistics, aircraft model, etc.
I guess the lack of power ups threw me off.
Whats more, some will debate the manner in which folks suicide thier aircraft, or hide a TG or drive/use a GV, then berate someone who does the same about another category. Guess I fell off the wagon.
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This thread is funny. Lame as heck, but funny.
"How can playing a Game be anything but Gamey.... "
Shhh.......they want to think this is a "simulation". Heaven forbid that someone might actually have FUN.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by Wotan
revvin is one of those wb ai ack stars no doudt.
I have killed plenty of buffs 7 in 1 sortie in a g10
i killed 10 in 2 frames of big week scenario plus 5 assists.
I dont care how much you like fluffin its still rediculously easy and has far to great an impact of gameplay. Ackstarring is just an extension of the fluffers need for attention.
whats it take to auto take off auto climb auto level then look through the laser site and push a button. wow tough sortie
:rolleyes:
Bombing easy? Please! Just stop. (And "Ridiculous" is spelled with an "I" tough guy.)
Let me tell you about my sortie last night. We flew 300 Miles in a 5 Lancaster Mission to drop the Bishop's HQ. We were engaged twice by enemy fighters on this mission. Flying at 28k, we lost 1 ship before the objective, and 3 after ordinance delivery. All told, we shot down 5 enemy fighters including 1 Me 262. I personally duked it out with RadX for a good 5-7 minutes. to Rad for a hell of a fight, and never giving up. I would use rudder turns to get my tail gun on him when he tried a belly attack. This went on over and over, until I finally ran out of ammo. Rad is a master at attacking bombers in my book.
But to call Bombing "easy" is simply a sign of ignorance, or lack of long experience in the field.
And as far as it being too impacting on the game, rest assured, the Bishop radar was back up before we would have even landed.
This is how I choose to spend my time in AH. You won't see me insulting your style and preference of AH. I would appreciate you showing me and mine the same respect.
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WOW !!!
My known defination of a "fluffer" might be quite different than what I'm seeing here. :eek:
I hope I'm wrong..
But if I'm not...
BOY I'M REALLY GOING TO ENJOY THIS GAME :D
On a side note....with VERY strange thoughts running through my head is.
I'll take Egon Mayers tactics in an A-8..ain't nothin better.
nopoop
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Difference is poopster you will probably use better tactics and get the kill, most of the wannabe's I see whining (and I'm not talking about anyone in this thread in particular) moan how they did this or that manouvre but the view from the other side is often very different.
I was the subject of a whine online a while ago, we don't have AI gunners so often fighters will wait till we're over target to pounce. On one occassion I bagged three cons because they thought I was in norden view (stalked me till I was over target) they all came in flat as a pancake on my six and one by one got shot down..I'd been watching them all the time laughing to myself as they lined up like a bunch of fairground targets. Of course I was told my buff guns were porked how buffs ruin the game etc etc and that the pilot in question had used 'high slashing attacks' :rolleyes: yeah he did...about D4 off my six then came in straight an level on my six :)
I get shot down by guys using good tactics, infact I just logged out of the main arena after a 109 shot my Lanc down, he used fast slashing attacks and I hardly got a shot on him. He showed a lot of patience and chased me for miles before finally getting the kill. You don't see that often, its too easy to come here and bang your fist on the keyboard.
I don't ackstar and never will but hey it seems like the best insult Wotan could come up with so it must be true :rolleyes: Fact is if I found any of my squad doing it they get a warning, do it again and they are out... simple as that I don't want those kind of players in my squad it ruins the fun for others so you can see why it irks me somewhat when someone makes a sweeping statement about all bomber pilots in AH.
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A good fighter pilot with the proper tactics will ALWAYS win a fighter/Bomber engagement. Period. Add in a wingman and the the Buffs chances of survival are nearly zero.
Rev, Define AckStarring for me, will you?
I was called this a few weeks ago. Here's the scenario. We launch a mission to take a field, and this mission includes about 6 B-26's. Low on the deck, pop up, attack FH's VH, and town. Fighters are on hand to engage enemy cons, and goons are rolling.
After my ord drop, a load up the waist gun, put the aircraft into a circle over the field, and proceed to fire on anything trying to up. (Similar to what the AC-130 does today).
So is this ackstarring? I would call it field supression, goon protection or even vulching. But ackstarring? I don't think so.
Since then, my first action when logging in is .squelch 1.
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Rev, Define AckStarring for me, will you?
Definitions vary Muck, IMHO the term ackstarring is when you up a bomber at one of your airfields under attack and circle shooting at the planes attacking your base, it makes you a kind of moving ack wagon.
Some might say what you did was ackstarring but I would not necessarily agree, while I would not do it (I prefer to land my bomber sorties safely) you are attacking an enemy field. Of course in WB you often got called an ackstar when flying a B25-H which had no norden and was armed with rockets...like you'd really fire them at 20,000ft :rolleyes:
Like I said there are many definitions and those may vary from mine.
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Heh, one thing you hear me ask the participants to do in one of my big bomber missions if its boring and uneventful is "Lets drop altitude and troll home"...meaning we drop from 20k alt to a lower alt to give the enemy fighters an even chance of engaging us...risking of course, our airframes, but inviting them to "come get us, if you think you can...got what it takes?" IE, alot of guys will stupidly attack a buff from dead 6..and I'll take that kill with my buff guns anyday!
Ackstarring in my eyes is a guy or guys that cirlce a field with all AA down, with absolutely no intent on capturing the field, and firing on anything that ups..but I digress, don't get up, don't give em a target if you don't like the way they play the game.
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Originally posted by J_A_B
This thread is funny. Lame as heck, but funny.
"How can playing a Game be anything but Gamey.... "
Shhh.......they want to think this is a "simulation". Heaven forbid that someone might actually have FUN.
J_A_B
You are "undecided" in realism vs. gameplay, but this thread is lame?
Why is your thread valid but this one isn't? It is about realism vs. gameplay.
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Originally posted by AcId
On a more serious note: What makes you think the tail gunner had no comms with the pilot?
All of the smart comments aside... I know they had communication with the pilot. I was not really advocating easier to kill buffs as much as I was giving an incentive to player gunned buffs, sort of a teamwork thing. My squad IS a bomber squad, and most of the time we simply have gunners on board so the pilot can concentrate on his mission.
As far as bombers being too tough, they seem to die easy enough when attacked properly. However, you should hear the radio chatter when our gunners see an enemy fighter doing the six o'clock climb... they love that. BUT, I guarantee they start asking for fighter cover when someone is setting up a run from directly above or from a decent angle.
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muckmaw 28k lanc lol whatever
buffs in ah are way easy I fly umm and am better at it then you.
I kill um and I'm pretty sure I can do that better as well.
but none of this is what this threads about.
How hard was it to put your lanc on auto climb? You could have went and had a nap. If you like to fly fluffs, well fly umm. But dont sell us anything about skill. They are simple.
Revvin you came to this thread with an attitude and insults but thats what ya expect from a spit pilot. I have no need to throw any meaningful insult back. I dont care that much about you to be concerned.
Fly how you want but I am gonna call it like I see it. If someone flies around at 100 feet ackstarring thats what it is. Chances are they will be dead fast enough anyway. Its still ackstarrin and its still stupid.
Lets face it most fluffers are only a few thousand feet from being ackstars :)
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Revvin you came to this thread with an attitude and insults but thats what ya expect from a spit pilot. I have no need to throw any meaningful insult back. I dont care that much about you to be concerned.
When you make moronic sweeping statements like the original one I responded to then yes expect 'attitude'
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"The Lancaster pilots would often use a defensive corkscrew manouvre co-ordinated by their gunners calling to give them positions of enemy fighters. "
Yes, in AH they can even split-s and loop fight with you. Heck, ive even hammerheaded in one (and got a kill thanks to the fighter following me up.. craft zooming up make great turbotailgun bait).
The problem with AH bombers is the fuel load. Go ahead and take a 100 fuel lancaster and TRY to pull a split-s or any hard manouver that you commonly see done in the MA. Every time I try it I end up in an extremely nasty & quick spin/stall or rip my wings out. But 25% fuel, no sweat.
Imo, HTC should make the buff fuel have a much higher burn rate, maybe so that a buff will have to take 100 fuel if he wants to fly 1 map (say, ndisles) length. That way any buff raid wanting to go more than 4 sectors away will have to take 50 fuel or more.
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Originally posted by Wotan
buffs in ah are way easy I fly umm and am better at it then you.
Umm sure Wotan. It's refreshing to see the obnoxious factor of your squad will remain static with the departure of JoeCrip. Nice of you to pick up the slack. Meanwhile, if your callsign is Wotan, you flew 9 sorties all last month. It looks to me like you were flying at 33k and never even saw a bog. This makes you a better bomber pilot? Sure, whatever. And my dad can beat up your dad.
Give me a call when you've flown more than 10 bomber sorties and actually shot down an attacker.
How hard was it to put your lanc on auto climb? You could have went and had a nap. If you like to fly fluffs, well fly umm. But dont sell us anything about skill. They are simple.
Sell you? I could give a rats bellybutton what you think of me and my skills. They are not simple, and anyone who flys extended hours in buffs (Umm more than 9 sorties a tour, that is) will tell you that. Not that you'd listen.[/B]
As I said earlier, fly the way you want, but don't come on with your high and mighty attitude believing your style or type of flying is better than anyone elses.
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But...
Whoot !!!!!
WHERE DO FIND THE FLUFFERS ?????? :D
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During WW2, USAAC used to use B-17's as gunships to help protect the bomber formations. So the idea of guys hopping in a B-17 in AH and just flying around looking for fighters isn't that far from reality.
Ack-Ack
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Good points all but...
I'm dead serious here..
Where ARE the fluffers ????
nopoop
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the fluffers are back at my house. They are helping prepare for my next movie- "thrila's nasty sheep orgy part4":eek: :) :o :D
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Originally posted by poopster
Good points all but...
I'm dead serious here..
Where ARE the fluffers ????
nopoop
Fluffers can be found in the sheep pens grooming the sheep.
Ack-Ack
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Thanks thrila, the IMPORTANT question is answered..
Let me know when they're back in the arena
;)
nopoop
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During WW2, USAAC used to use B-17's as gunships to help protect the bomber formations. So the idea of guys hopping in a B-17 in AH and just
I believe this was only experimented with, and not put in practice on any kind of noticable scale.
But, this is not what "ackstarring" refers to anyway, but I understand your point. Be assured, no bomber crew ever took off in the face of a large enemy fighter assualt just so they could shoot their guns at the fighters.
That practice is limited to these flight/combat sims by a few desperate few without any sense of game play or honor.
Dago
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I am thoroughly enjoying this thread :)
Could use a little bit more hate though...
Aub
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Originally posted by Dago
I believe this was only experimented with, and not put in practice on any kind of noticable scale.
But, this is not what "ackstarring" refers to anyway, but I understand your point. Be assured, no bomber crew ever took off in the face of a large enemy fighter assualt just so they could shoot their guns at the fighters.
That practice is limited to these flight/combat sims by a few desperate few without any sense of game play or honor.
Dago
You're right, it's wasn't standard practice and usually only done by some of the bomber groups on occasion.
I've seen 'ackstarring' in all the online sim's I've played and I never felt it diminished the game or my enjoyment. There have been a few times during squad nights in AW where we'd load up in a Deathstar to CAP our base that was under heavy attack. It was fun and tell you the truth never heard anyone whine about it. The same in Warbirds. There were a few squad nights with the MOLs were one of us would up in a bomber and turn on the auto-gunners to protect our base, -MF- used to do it a lot.
If hiding the fleet is considered a legitimate tactic by a lot of you guys, then using a B-17 or any other bomber to DEFCAP a base is just as legitimate. Just because it wasn't done in real life doesn't mean it shouldn't be done in the game. This isn't a WW2 simulation but a simulation using WW2 planes, so real world stuff need not apply at times.
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
Ack-Ack
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders
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Originally posted by akak
During WW2, USAAC used to use B-17's as gunships to help protect the bomber formations. So the idea of guys hopping in a B-17 in AH and just flying around looking for fighters isn't that far from reality.
Ack-Ack
The plane you are referring to was a modified B-17e...
It was designated the YB-40 (Y being Experimental)
Only a few of these were made, The modifications made were Twin 50's in both left and right waist gunner positions... An extra dorsal turret also twin 50's and a remote control chin turret, again all gun positions were twin 50's... It carried no bombs but enough ammo to shoot down the entire Luftwaffe... The last major modification was a lot of additional armor.
The YB-40 was developed early in the war and was flown by the Eighth Airforce, 92nd Bomb Group (H) and was only flown exclusively by the 327th Bomb Squadron.
The purpose of the YB-40 was to serve as ecort for the entire mission... To the target and back, which was impossible for the fighters at that time... The YB-40 was very effective in shooting down fighters... But in reality what really brought the experiment about, was a desperate attempt to raise morale among the Bomber Crews. At this time of the war, 60% loss rates were acceptable...
The YB-40 was great to have along on the way into the target, however on the return trip after the Bombers had dropped thier bombs they were much lighter than the heavily armored YB-40 and in turn able to fly at much higher speed.
The entire group had to throttle back in order to prevent the YB-40 from becoming a straggler... In most cases the Bomb Group raced home as fast as they could, leaving the hapless YB-40 crews to help escort damaged stragglers... They only flew a few missions before the experiment was cancelled. They did however keep the idea of the chin turret and included it in the B-17g model.
Now that would have been an "Ackstar" any way that it was flown.
BOOT
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in my 9 sorties (none above 18k) i killed more with greater accurracy then you. It took no skill what so ever. Fluffing takes no skill at all. unless you take the time to figure fuel rates time to ip and strive to fly in a box.
Buffs arent made to engage fighters. In rl they are flown to get to target and home. I fly umm that way the very few times when I do. I only fly umm when I making dinner, napping or washing clothes.
You are selling some bs if you think cruising at 28 k in lanc takes "skill". If you like it thats onething but skill it is not.
no doudt its rediculous. Folks wonder why fluffers get no respect.
revvin none of this is an unfair generalization. its spot on. Go read the previous fluff whiners threads, started by fluffers in an attempt to win sympathy for their skilless task.
If you want an idea of fluffing flown with a great level of skill ask ripsnort if he has a film of his TOD b17 sortie where the whole box fought off numerous 262 attacks all by very experienced pilots. IMHO that was some of the best formation flying I've seen.
Anyway fluffers I imagin you all in fluffs right now on your 28k climbout surfing the web and cruising the board.
:rolleyes:
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Your greater accuracy simply means you were flying Milk-runs, and every time you dropped a bomb, it hit it's target. The fact that you never engaged an enemy a/c tells me this.
The reason my acuracy is lower is because 90% of my missions are flown at 10k in a B-26, into hot fields. I've been shot down many more times on these mission's and therefore, impacting my accuracy. Dropping bombs under fire, or simply unloading your ordinance in order to gain speed out of a hot sector on the return trip are both common occurances for me.
I personally find high alt. bomb runs boring. I don't care to sit through a 28k climbout. And as Rip said earlier, I'd much rather fly lower and fight my way into a target.
If I were to sit here and tell you I'm a better fighter pilot than you, I'd be wrong and out of my mind. You doing the same about buffs is simply childish and ignorant.
Bait on about Bomber pilots having no skill. In my mind you're completely wrong.
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hardly milkrunning, but whatever that doesnt change the fact that fluffing takes no skill. btw 3 or those sorties are field captures
surely going on auto climb fer 30-45 min to 28k isnt a skill is it?
fly how and what you want but dont tell me you are a "skilled" buffer because there are very few of those. if et is still around watch him fly his b26. Talk about a tough nut to crack.
edit
Didnt you a few posts up just say you flew a 300 mile 28k buff sortie?????:confused:
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fluffing is skilless and everyone knows it. It is a fact that everyone else in the game hates seeing a fluff. They ruin the game for the rest of us. It is a selfish, attention starved thing to fly fluffs. When you are flying them, know that everyone wishes you were not in the game.
but.... if you can't do anything else I suppose HTC could use your money.
lazs
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I was wondering when you were going to show up Lazs, knowing this is one of your favorite topics. I must have missed a memo. When were you elected to speak for the entire AH community? Was the election a landslide? Remind me to congratulate you next time I see you. Finally, every pilot in AH can now stop posting on this board because Lazs speaks for us all. What else can you tell us, oh great oracle? Can you give me a few investment ideas for the next 2 quarters?
Meanwhile, Wotan, I did fly a 300 mile, 28k Lanc sortie in a mission with my squad. It was the first one I've flown at such great distance, and quite frankly, was quite boring until the bogs showed up. It was done for strategic purposes to give us a chance at taking xome bases back by taking down the Bish radar. Frankly it was quite boring until the bogs showed up. This is one of very few long distance, high alt. mission's I've flown. Take a look at my stats you'll see most of my Buff missions are flown in a B-26. Obviously, you cannot tell my altitude, but the number of kills in the B-26 should tell you that I fight my way in and out on 90% of my sorties.
I have no need to convince you, or Lazs or anyone else of my skill level. Flying bombers is what I enjoy, and I do it well. Does it require skill? Yes. Would you agree with that? No.
So continuing to debate this is simply a waste of time for both of us.
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i was not telling you how high you flew or where you flew. That was you telling me. Do ya need the quotes?
I was just using the example you gave in this post. I would hope you didnt fly every fluff sortie at 28k. I would hate for you to get bored ;)
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No, I understand that. I was merely drawing from my last sortie as an example of an exciting mission, that was in my opinion, worth the time and energy. Hell, when we were climbing out in formation, the squad was joking around about how we were going to go out for a burger while we climbed out. Granted, outside of staying in formation, and countering wind effects to stay on course, little or no skill required here.
The real fun started when we encountered the bogs. Like I said, RadX (maybe it was RedX) gave me one hell of a fight, which he eventually won. His predecessor was not so lucky. The mission was 75% boredom, 25% thrilling. And it was done with an objective to help the country. Otherwise, you'll never see me in a Lanc, much less at 28k.
The point I've been trying to get across is simply that not all the buff pilots fly the same way. Give me a close air support mission on a hot base capture anyday. That's my what I prefer above all else, and that's what I fly 90% of the time. And I still contend that this requires a certain amount of skill to survive.
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Muck, you are fighting the good fight, the problem boils down to repsect. You have sinned to fly buffs, and God forbid, fly them in a fashion that yields a successful sortie. Lazs and Wotan can whine endlessly that anyone flying a buff, whether at 5k or 28k, is a "no skill pilot". What granted them the high rank of deciding who is skilled and who is not, eludes us all.
With the introduction of the Me262, buffs have to be smarter about getting into the hot areas. Granted, not all are (i.e. the low level, almost suicide runs where the buff is essentially fighting their way in) but I know on my runs, Im debating payload vs speed (Lanc vs Ar234), chance of landing at a suitable field, fuel load (more a factor in a 234 than Lanc) and best alt. And, if we're talking about the Ar234, what targets are we trying to tackle, or do we decide enroute? Many times I've headed to a field to take down a VH yet when I arrived on site, M3s/Goons were enroute and it was requested I finish off the city instead, etc etc.
But, according to the arm chair know-it-alls, that's all no skill, eh?
But this is from the same group who despise base taking, so goons are bad people too, eh?
Seems to me most of the folks who fly the buffs and goons are undervalued. to those that drive the slow stuff :)
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Maybe it just boils down to different types of skill. Perhaps the buff missions require more organizational, and tactical thinking, while the Fighter pilots use more reflexive, split second decsion making.
I simply don't understand why Fighter Pilots find it necessary to constantly berate the Bomber pilots.
I can only imagine what the fighter jocks have to say about Tankers and other GV's.
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if you enjoy flying buffs then go for it. My point at the beginning of this thread was
"no wonder fluffers get no respect"
With every ackstar to a lot of folks this just reaffirms what they already think. Fluffing in ah is not about simulation or the experience or even the game but the "ha ha ha look at me".
I agree ah is a game and if you have fun wasting your time flying around at 100ft spraying everwhere till ya die then go for it. imho its stupid and have stated so.
If that offends the whole fluffer sub culture so be it.
I have made no mention about what you should fly or how you should fly it in a particular way. IMHO all fluffers are a few 1000 feet from being ackstars. :)
Most of the fluff threads in the past were made by fluffers who cry about how unappreciated they are. However with the strat system set up in ah theres a whole realm of strategies and targets that fluffers could hit. They however go on fuel porking runs that shuts down good fights in particular sector. or they kill the fhs.
Theres towns, cities, factories, railroads port cv groups all sorts of things that fluffers have screamed for in the past. But where do ya find umm. Flying around on some suicide missions.
Again if ya like it well go for it. I think thats a waste of time and have expressed my agreement with apaches initial post. I then get some spit/lanc fluffer telling me I am stupid for pointing out the obvious, that fluffing is skilless.
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The more I read the more I see you talk utter crap Wotan, its like you and Lazs are siamese twins joined at the braincell.
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I avoided this thread yesterday because I figured it would be people telling other people how they oughta play the game. I was right.
Now that I wasted my time, here's my input:
Bombers are in the game to be flown. I don't mess with 'em much but I understand that other people like to. If you wanna fly a bomber fly a freekin bomber. Have fun. Don't care about what the fighter pilot you just shot down thinks of you. Whether you're having fun or not is the important thing.
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Just close the bomber hangars... no ackstars then.
Daniel
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LOL I just love when the chest thumping starts to justify points of view. It's been said before... it's a GAME!
When the "My SkILz is better than yours, yadda yadda. You ain't got no SkILz cause you're a driver." starts... :rolleyes:
You play the GAME your way, I'll play the GAME my way. If my way affects your enjoyment, ram me, shoot me, strafe my chute... but don't expect me to change my behavior for your enjoyment.
By the way... I'll be taking the HO in a Spit IX if presented... it's not like it hurts or anything :D
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muck... yes, I was elected to speak for the entire AH community. You didn't get the memo because no one sent you one. The reason no one sent yuou one is because we don't care what fluffers think anyway.
lazs
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The more I read the more I see you talk utter crap Wotan, its like you and Lazs are siamese twins joined at the braincell.
anyone can read this thread and see my replies to other fluff threads and I am consistant.
But you on the otherhand seem to be losing it.
Put a lanc on auto climb and go meditate or medicate fer an hour or so when you come back you can hit "x" and repeat the process.
:eek:
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Originally posted by lazs2
muck... yes, I was elected to speak for the entire AH community. You didn't get the memo because no one sent you one. The reason no one sent yuou one is because we don't care what fluffers think anyway.
lazs
That's too bad, Lazs. You would have gotten my vote based on your even handed dealings with others, and your open mind. Lest we forget you charm and eloquence. Surely you are the toast of the AH community. At last we have a voice! So when do you get your new office at HTC? Are they going to give you a pencil sharpener, or are they afraid you might hurt yourself?
What's your first act in office? I assume eliminate anything in the planeset you dislike, and then move all the bases...Oh hell who needs bases. Everybody start at 10k, 1000 Yards apart? Why bother with all that take-off, landing stuff, right?
Hail to the chief! Long Live Lazs! May your reign be long and prosperous.
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:eek: ;YIKES !!!
You know these boards have a lot of great information...
It is just a shame that you have to muddle thru all the crap to get to the good info...
For Crying out loud peeps... Take a pill or something,
Do they have medications to cure anal retentive attitudes ???
:D
All you die hard fighter jocks that have posted here...
Did it ever occur to you that people get just as disgusted by your Ace antics, and mostly your Ace attitudes as you do peeps that fly Bombers...
:confused:
If you guys only want one on ones...
Don't like base capture...
Hate the buffs / aka fluffs...
Hate the milkrunning...
Hate the rudder control for gunners...
Hate the ackstars / aka deathstars...
Hate Bombers porking your fighter fuel...
Hate GV's...
Hate the laser guns...
Hate the fleets...
And it seems to me, you hate anyone that doesn't hate what you hate ! ( Kinda sounds like Stalinisim to me )
Why in the hell are you flying AH ???
Sheesh
:rolleyes:
BOOT
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actually, socialism is letting fluffs in the game. It is on a par with allowing stevie wonder to drive the bus in the interest of "fairness".
muk... I get it... you are being sarcastic right?
lazs
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Originally posted by muckmaw
That's too bad, Lazs. You would have gotten my vote based on your even handed dealings with others, and your open mind. Lest we forget you charm and eloquence. Surely you are the toast of the AH community. At last we have a voice! So when do you get your new office at HTC? Are they going to give you a pencil sharpener, or are they afraid you might hurt yourself?
What's your first act in office? I assume eliminate anything in the planeset you dislike, and then move all the bases...Oh hell who needs bases. Everybody start at 10k, 1000 Yards apart? Why bother with all that take-off, landing stuff, right?
Hail to the chief! Long Live Lazs! May your reign be long and prosperous.
Oh My God, you gonna come over and clean my monitor off now! :D:D
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Lord Lazs,
Dear Friend, Archnemisis, and never-ending fountain of entertainment;
If you did not pick up the sarcasm in that post, I would be very disappointed in you SA abilites.
Hugs and Kisses on all your pink parts,
Muck
XOXO
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Wha da 'ell is a peeps?
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Sheesh....
I was about to make a suggestion, now that the map rooms are not on the bases anymore, that HTC remove "The bomber gun safeties while on the ground interlock".
Why one earth should a gun suddenly start working the instant the wheels leave the ground. This is more gamey than ever.
Rude, you reading this?
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actually muk... agreeing with me does not require that you hug and kiss all my "pink parts". In fact, no offense, but.... I'm really not into that. I do applaud your courage tho for coming out in such a public forum.
lazs
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Only for you, Lazs. You're my hero.
(shhhhh...don't tell my wife)
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Originally posted by Wotan
Fluffing in ah is not about simulation or the experience or even the game but the "ha ha ha look at me".
That's about right.
Now, before I get started, I used to be a dedicated fluff driver. Some of the real old timers probably remember how painful it was to attack my B-17 :D. For you new whippersnappers check the stats on 214CaveJ for the beta tours and this handle for the first few tours.
Skill to drive a buff? Not hardly.
A chipanzee can avoid hills and turn on the auto pilot.
LGBs with pinpoint accuracy. Put the xhair on what you want to blow up and hit the button. Not exactly nuerosurgery.
No need to setup your bombsight to account for winds et al. It's more point and click than the F4U-1C could ever hope to be.
No navigation skills are necessary with the GPS map. Your position and target are clearly marked at all times. Even your route is marked if the mission planner was real thourough.
The only skill involved in when ya gotta get on your guns. Are you a crack shot or are you just spraying lead and praying.
More tactical thinking required muck? Hardly. How hard is it to ask "what needs to be hit at xxx?" then put the xhair on whatever people tell you to drop on. Again, it's not nuerosurgery.
The let's talk about the FM. Sure, they hit the numbers for power/speed/climb etc etc. But what's this crap of rolling a fluff with a full bomb load 60degrees on its wing trying to avoid fighter attacks? Oh yeah, no friendly collisions and no formations either, so it doesn't matter right? And we won't discuss the fact that yer fully loaded fluff can out turn just about every fighter in the game from 15k and higher when yer turning from the gun positions.
And how do the gunners, especially the waist and upper gunners, maintain thier ability to shoot during these manuevers? I've been inside a -17, and I damn sure wouldna wanna be in the waist guns with the pilot standing the bird on its wing. Can you say silk approach? I knew you could.
I'd love to see one of you fluffers stand yer bomb laden bird on it's wing and the retainers for the eggs break and blow yer bellybutton outta the sky. I'd pay to see that, along with the shocked look on yer face. And let's not forget all the crap that would go flyin around inside the airplane... maybe model something knocking the pilot out cold from hitting him in the head during an extreme manuever.
I left the heavies and learned to fight in the fighters because I got bored with fluffing.
Don't try to tell me fluffing takes skill. I've been there, done that, and have the T-shirt.
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Now, with all that said, there are some dedicated buff drivers out there who warrant respect. They actually fly the birds like were flown, try to maintain thier formations, don't mess with that gamey crap of standing a buff on its wing using thier rudder controls while in the gun positions. They actually go for the simulation of flying the heavies. These guys warrant, and earn, my respect.
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Lancaster realism....
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Originally posted by CavemanJ
More tactical thinking required muck? Hardly. How hard is it to ask "what needs to be hit at xxx?" then put the xhair on whatever people tell you to drop on. Again, it's not nuerosurgery.
I was actually referring to the tactical thinking that goes into planning a Bomber mission. Whether it be to supress opposition from a adjacent base or on a capture mission, I think true Bomber pilots plan they're route much more carefully than a fighter. For survivability, you need to. Now I can't speak for all bomber pilots, but before I even start my engines, my wingman and I know what our course alt and speed will be, what exact targets we are hitting, and what our capture field will be. We also have secondary targets earmarked in case our primary is obscured, or already destroyed.
I'm sure there are fighter jocks out there that plan out there mission ahead as well.
But once again, I take offense at the suggestion that Bomber flying requires no skill.
I disagree, as do many other dedicated Buff-drivers.
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Originally posted by Apache
Wha da 'ell is a peeps?
A marshmallow baby chicken last I checked ;)
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Fighter pilots make movies, bomber pilots make history.:D
Fly want you want, when you want, how you want. Don't concern yourself with what, when or how the other guy flies.
The fact that bombers or fighter-bombers can kill fuel, ammo and hangers is built into the game. It is intended. Don't squeak at other players for playing the game as it was intended. If you don't like it, convince HTC that your views are correct.
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Originally posted by Apache
Wha da 'ell is a peeps?
Well I guess all BB slang isn't universal... It's really not that difficult... Use your imagination...
But then again these boards are a tad different...
:)
BOOT
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Originally posted by muckmaw
I simply don't understand why Fighter Pilots find it necessary to constantly berate the Bomber pilots.
There used to be an old WW2 saying, "There are no fighter pilots in hell, just bomber pilots."
Anyway, until they pay your $15 bucks a month Muck, tell them to go screw themselves. If they don't like seeing a B-17 flying low defending their bases, well that's just too bad. Let them whine like freshly sheared sheep in the winter.
Ack-Ack
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In a war combatants will use whatever means they can to kill the enemy! I believe the Germans even used captured B17s to drop bombs on Bomber formations. Was that GAMEY. Hell no it was WAR. If you're playing a war game you use any tool at your disposal to kill the bad guys. Period!
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Eh...no you dont. That is why the British plan to spread plutonium over Germany was cancelled, that is why neither side used any gas... think before you write.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Eh...no you dont. That is why the British plan to spread plutonium over Germany was cancelled, that is why neither side used any gas... think before you write.
While Germany or the Allies in Europe might not have used whatever means to win the war, the Japanese sure tried, as did the U.S., in the Pacific. So maybe you should do a little thinking yourself before you go off like some dweeb in a sheep pen.
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
Ack-Ack
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders
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Originally posted by Revvin
The more I read the more I see you talk utter crap Wotan, its like you and Lazs are siamese twins joined at the braincell.
Braincell?? What braincell?? I see NO evidence of a braincell
in any of his posts...just an ENORMOUS ego...
One positive aspect of threads like this is that they serve
to remind me who the buttheads and morons are in this
"game" thus making it easier to set my "IGNORE" flags...