Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Westy on March 13, 2001, 08:41:00 AM
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I'm not trying to be a "pita" but four days after the 1.06 release I still see some major graphics problems that are serious imo. I'd like to know if HTC is working on them or if they feel it's a good release and I guess I should be persuing a resolution on my end? I'm only asking because there's not been a peep from Pyro or HiTech on any of the issues (not talking about side numbers) that have been posted.
I can't fly near the new cloud layers at all. In them yes, but not close to them due to the odd rectangles that grow in my 45deg off views. And I can''t use the CV's because I can't see them, or the other ships. Just the wakes. I've not been to a CV that was not in the same grid as the new cloud layer so not sure if it's related or not.
Anyone from HTC have just a moment to say what's happening? Please?
Thanks.
Westy
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Westy possible fix for the CV. When I go to hanger I cannot see any ordinance fuel loadouts at all. But I did find if I select the plane and goto gun convergence and go back, for some reason it resets it and you can see the loadouts. I get flickering all the time and the CV is sometimes invisible. Not sure for fix for that. Very dark clouds I cannot fly in, and when it is dark you can forget about it, I just grab a buff and set off for those 45 minute flights and hope no one sees me either.
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<punt>
Love the clouds.... but they're broken. I haven't heard any mention of them being fixed either. Anyone else?
Also - is there *anyone* out there who has the clouds appearing normally to them? If so - what sys specs?
[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 03-13-2001).]
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Silence is golden.
I'd bet they are working on it. No time to waste by giving a status report of what's only half done. When it's fixed, they'll say something.
I'm more worried when HTC gives us constant updates daily. Means they are working on more press releases then the actual game...
Seems that they get more done when they're quiet..
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Sitrep for Week of March 12:
Uhm... Oh yeah.. they're working on it. Would you rather one of these things or have it fixed in a week rather than three?
-SW
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I can only assume it's certain brands/models/drivers of certain video cards.
The new effects look great on my system for the most part. The only thing that looks a little odd is the storm front (the grey wall). I can fly through, around, below and above the clouds and they look pretty good.
I'm sure they will be fine tuned soon.
Running on my second pc (primary has some serious problems):
Pent 3 733/133mhz (not over clocked)
Tyan Trinity MB
Geforce 2 32meg DDR (AGP) running 1600x1200
256 PC133 SDRAM
SB Live
21inch Sony Trinitron
Mox
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It could be worse. Consider:
Aces High:
Sitrep for the week March 12-19
-Had a meeting concerning the deployment of Patch 2
-Deployed the new coffee machine into paid production
-Had a meeting concerning AH II with the new Spring Chicken˜ terrain engine. Set the date (tentative upon approval by the CEO) to begin development (3/2/2003)
-Conducted our 32nd meeting with the trainers and the CM crew.
-Announced the minimum system requirements for 1.07: dual p4 processors, 2 Gig RAM, and twin GForce III graphics cards.
-Banned four players for talking too much about Fighter Hangars.
-Had representatives from a European software company over to tour the facilities. Almost got them to buy us out.
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Very funny Dinger (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
It would be nice to know what their doing for patch 2 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Y
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I'm not taking a FR hit in the new clouds, but I can't see the aircraft carrier. (Or the plane on it when I go to the hangar.) After about 30 seconds on a ship, all the ships will disappear and all that will be left is their wakes. If I press external view, my ship will flash back into view, but then disappear again.
There is a bug somewhere, this never has happened to me before. (The hangar bug either.)
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Originally posted by Dinger:
It could be worse. Consider:
Aces High:
Sitrep for the week March 12-19
-Had a meeting concerning the deployment of Patch 2
-Deployed the new coffee machine into paid production
-Had a meeting concerning AH II with the new Spring Chicken˜ terrain engine. Set the date (tentative upon approval by the CEO) to begin development (3/2/2003)
-Conducted our 32nd meeting with the trainers and the CM crew.
-Announced the minimum system requirements for 1.07: dual p4 processors, 2 Gig RAM, and twin GForce III graphics cards.
-Banned four players for talking too much about Fighter Hangars.
-Had representatives from a European software company over to tour the facilities. Almost got them to buy us out.
ROTFLOL!!!
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Roger that Dinger! and second that Rip!
ROFLOL!!!!
You should have signed it....
Lay Jitman
Nonproducer
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Ya missed the point though... We weren't askin' fer one of them sitreps....
All we said was that we weren't (and still aren't) sure if the problem has even been acknowledged.
Moose? SeeWulf? Have *you* guys seen anything on it? Or.... do the clouds look ok to *you*? If so - what system are ya runnin?
That's all that was asked.
Come on. Three weeks in delaying development to say "Yup - it's broken, no - it aint yer graphics card, and yup we're workin' on it"? Pfft cheeeyeah right. If yer used to that kind of efficiency in your lives yer prolly employed by the government.
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Nash,
Believe me, HT is working hard on this one...he's been around the industry enough to know how ugly it looks, imagine if you had created it, would you be satisfied with it? Hell no, and not a simple matter, and if its still here, then obviously he thinks it has potential to be fixed. Rest assured, it will be fixed either by improvement or in a worst case scenario, removal. We've had faith in HTC this far, why would all faith be removed now? Patience.
Edit: and HT has acknowledged this online in blue text, he's prolly too busy fixing it rather than posting on a BBS.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-13-2001).]
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Edit: and HT has acknowledged this online in blue text, he's prolly too busy fixing it rather than posting on a BBS.
K - cool.. Thanks Rip.
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Damn it. That was funny (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) !!
But, I'm trying not to be too serious however I'm not able to brush off with assumption that what a bunch of user see is a problem being worked on when no one I've talked to has seen any evidence it is. What Nash just said "All we said was that we weren't (and still aren't) sure if the problem has even been acknowledged." hit the nail on the head. Just tell me the things reported are bugs or not so I can wait (no problem with that) or try and fix my system with DX-8 or different drivers
..
In the past bugs were never around this long without some kind of comment or input by Pyro, HiTech, Natdog or Superfly. Usually silence REALLY is "golden" in that it typically meant good things were about to sprout forth for us but when it comes to bugs and a few problems posing some hefty game play problems for a bunch of folks, it's not golden. Nor appropriate.
I don't know. One or more of em may have a busy schedule precluding reading these boards, maybe HiTech is buried in the code and or Pyro has a flu bug. <shrug> Who knows? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
*edited as I just saw this: " .. and HT has acknowledged this online in blue text, he's prolly too busy fixing it rather than posting on a BBS."
Roger. Hate to be difficult (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) But is "it" the cloud appearance? Disappearing ships? The other graphic oddities liek sudden gray rectangles in views for no apparant reason? Massive FPS drop near the new cloud layers?
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 03-13-2001).]
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We disabled the cloud layers this morning pending some more work on them. That should fix the issues that you're having including the disappearing CV.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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Thank you Pyro!!!
-Westy
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(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Aww hell personally i could forgive all the bugs just for the privilege of fighting in them clouds.
And yes i saw all the same bugs Westy saw apart from unplayable FPS.
Really gonna miss the clouds and hope they return very quickly.
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*sigh*
I strongly disagree with the method of screaming for htc to post...
Do they ever get a break from us sim-junkies? I can see your point Nash, trust me - but to even think that these professionals (yes, professionals) could overlook a bug with the clouds, CVs, etc... kind of insulting.
:gets pom-poms out:
Go HTC!
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Neg Nash, the grey wall is kind of annoying.
However, based on past experiences with HTC I could and can say with 100% agreement with myself that they are working extremely hard to fix it. HT, Pyro and the rest of the crew do not pride themselves in something that doesn't look nice or behave properly. Based on this, I am certain they are working on it. Besides, they always come into the arena when they are fixing bugs to let us know what's up.
It's not worth it to me, for them to come and tell me somethings wrong.. we all know when somethings wrong, and we know they'll fix it. :-)
-SW
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Originally posted by Nash:
Come on. Three weeks in delaying development to say "Yup - it's broken, no - it aint yer graphics card, and yup we're workin' on it"? Pfft cheeeyeah right. If yer used to that kind of efficiency in your lives yer prolly employed by the government.
Hmmm... damn it Nash, how'd you know that?
:-P
-SW
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Lay Jitman.....LOL, that was funny! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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"I strongly disagree with the method of screaming for htc to post..."
Take a pill Moose. No screaming was done here. Many folks had problems with the new clouds and this release that it made our online time feel anything like "flying" in WWII aircombat. Some couldn't "fly" online at all.
So after four days of no news or comment on the issues, IMO, a post asking for one was more than warrant.
-Westy
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Ditto wot Westy said. It wasn't like this was some kind of a huge issue for me... In fact, as bugged as the clouds were - I still enjoyed fighting in them.
It's just that night after night I'd log in and see this massive box... still there... nobody really saying anything... And I mirrored Westy's question. Simply wondering: What's up?
Didn't really see this as some 'method'... screamin' for HTC to post ...
<shrug>
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<punt>
Reason? This is extremely ucharacteristic of Pyro or HiTech to be absent for so long after such a major release.
What's happening guys? Any word on the cloud bug(s)? What's on your plates right now?
-Westy
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Well Westy....I don't work for HTC, but I got a very good idea about why and how the clouds were the way they were.
First: It was not a bug. When I first saw the "grey wall", I immediately went, "What th....", but caught myself before I even finished the sentence. The programmer side of me kicked in and I knew immediately what was going on.
As most of you are probably aware, HT is very conscious of frame rates. How many releases have there been where one of the things on the list says something along the lines of, "Improved frame rates for....". Okay, HT has a penchant for improving frame rates so this sim/game can run on as many systems as possible.
Knowing this, as is eveident from the releases, I am betting the "grey wall" was/is the most efficient way to get the inital onset of a storm front done, without requiring every one to have a GeForce2 Ultra 64MB video card and a 1GHz CPU.
Frame rates still took a hit, as the grey wall was yet another poly to draw on top of the existing frame. Again, this is my interpretation of the implementation.
Doing weather events, in real time, and making them look real is one heck of a problem. And doing it without having to sacrifice your first born, to keep frame rates up is even tougher. Not saying it cannot be done, but it has to be one of the most challenging coding problems there is for a real time sim/game.
The problem is so intriguing to me, that I started working on code to do just that. Let me tell you....I can fully sympathize with the problem now.
So, back to your original question. The track record suggests HT/Pyro do not talk about things until they are done. This complex problem is not a one-nighter to cure. I am sure when they feel it is done to the point the players would be satisfied with it, they will make the announcement. HTC took a chance with the last release of the storm fronts, the players were not happy, and they pulled it. Now they know what to expect from the community and have a good idea of the expectations. Meeting said expectations is going to be a challenge.
Ever wonder why no other software has done much with atmospheric effects? Working on the code,..I now fully appreciate the problem.
Just hang in there, when they think they can do it right they will tell us about it. History has proven this.
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Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
President, AppLink Corp.
http://www.applink.net
skuzzy@applink.net
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Skuzzy, what about replacing the grey wall with a dark grey fogging technique (like that used on the horizon)? I'm sure it wouldn't look that bad to most people out there, then again I don't know what, if any, the impact it would have on FPS.
Just a guess. :-)
-SW
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Funny to say this, but 1.06 is by far the best and fastest working Aces High version for me..
It runs 2-3 fps faster under Windows2000 than 98SE which is very surprising.
My setup is:
Abit BH6 1.2
Celeron667@901
Ram 256 Cas2
Elsa erazor X (geforce 256 sdr)
SB live!
IBM GT 18Gb
Dual boot w2k SP1, W98SE Dx8.0a some tweaks in both.
The patches did no mentionable difference to my system. Actually I was wondering what the heck they were supposed to fix =)
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Thanks Skuzzy. I should have posted a different topic or punted a different one. The problem with the cloud layers wasn't so much the gray wall look as it was several other gpaphics problems they caused people. Myself included
FPS dropping thru the floor for some, disapperaing fleet ships for others as well as the mysterious sudden and unexplainable odd gray rectangles that would grow on the horizon, in different views at the same time, when there would not be a cloud in sight.
I do want to say I appreciate VERY much how much effort and thought they put into each release and feature to ensure that the as many players as possible can benefit from it. I do.
This is the longest period Pyro or HiTech have been out of touch with th AH readers that I can remember. I'm not knocking them but just kind of saying "HI! Whats happening guys?" I'm just the dumb shmuck who posts it before thinking if I should. I know form emails and other posts that others have had the same observation and they also though it was odd to not have had any kind of 'news' or a "Hi folks..." post from HTC.
I think I've gotten spoiled here to be honest.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 03-23-2001).]
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Originally posted by AKSeaWulfe:
Skuzzy, what about replacing the grey wall with a dark grey fogging technique (like that used on the horizon)? I'm sure it wouldn't look that bad to most people out there, then again I don't know what, if any, the impact it would have on FPS.
Just a guess. :-)
-SW
I tried that and the problem is you can only use alpha blending when the vertices of the polys are in the same plane of the buffer.
A rather simple explanation: You see the sky and ground we have, to do the blending you suggest would require putting up another sky and ground poly behind the poly you want to blend. You would have to as the size of the sky and groun polys are different. This means 3 frame draws for each frame. That would simply crash the FPS you have now.
It is a very interesting and challenging problem.
As to what Westy was talking about. The "grey block" appearing is the poly that was suposed to show the start of the storm front. Not a bug, but an attempt to show the storm line.
Ever been in a plane and approaching a storm? Try to imagine what it would be like to program that and still have get good frame rates. Very interesting problem. I love this kind of a challenge.
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Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
President, AppLink Corp.
http://www.applink.net
skuzzy@applink.net