Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: easymo on April 22, 2001, 01:59:00 PM
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"On a regular day the AH BBS is a sewer".
________________Posted by kieren on AGW
Thats a little strong. Doont you think?
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"On a regular day the AH BBS is a sewer".
________________Posted by kieren on AGW
Thats a little strong. Doont you think?
I really think that you posting that here confirms Kieren's assertment.
AKDejaVu
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For the last forty years I have preferred the company of bikers to that of "decent folks". The reason for this is that when a biker calls a man an amazinhunk, he does it to his face. He does not just go around the neighborhood badmouthing the other guy.
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I stand on that comment. We have degraded ourselves here to the point where a post cannot be made without someone attacking someone else. We recently discovered that we have monitors in game, and the board is experiencing more closed threads than ever before. There is a reason for that, and we'd better face it.
Sometimes the criticism leveled at us is justified; we fortunately have the power to do something about it.
FWIW, that wasn't a "behind the back" post, I made it on an open forum where I knew many of our members frequented. I would have to be foolish to think that no one from AH would read it.
[This message has been edited by Kieran (edited 04-22-2001).]
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Well everyone is entitled to their opinion, and alot of it is perception. I personally don't see much difference between the communities and actually get more frustrated online in WB than I do in AH, but that is just me. Thing you have to remember about these boards is that 90% of the posting is to discuss ideas, pro's & cons of the game etc. Of course things will get heated.
But when all the BS is done - AH pilots are a real tough lot and I find the fights in AH to be the toughest to win in any simm out there to date. SALUTE!!!!!
Here's one for ya easymo:
(http://jg27.org/fb.gif)
[This message has been edited by Kats (edited 04-22-2001).]
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Two wheel John Deere ?
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Naw Staga, John Deeres dont leak as much oil. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Dago
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Harley's don't leak oil.......they just like to mark thier spot.
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Oh, BTW, I read AGW for years, and still do read it, and flaming each other is sure not unique to the AH BBS by a long shot.
Fortunately, WB is rarely discussed or put down here . I dont think anyone playing AH is threatened by WB, but I dont think that is the case of WB players and AGW posters. The result of that is when someone goes on AGW posts negatives about AH or the community here on AGW, many are willing to jump on it.
Sad.
I havent seen anything negative on the AH BBS that I havent seen on AGW many times. There really isnt that big of a differance. Yes, some posts are getting locked here, but it doesnt happen often, and when it does, it is always a good thing because it is a thread started or going in a bad direction. As this is a company operated BBS, unlike AGW, HTC has a responsibility to excerise some level of control, just as IEN does on their company boards. Matter of fact, I think IEN is much more restrictive about it, completely deleting threads they dont like, or that discuss other games.
I went and read Kierens post, I really didnt find it all that offensive, and everyone has a right to his opinion.
Dago
[This message has been edited by Dago (edited 04-22-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Dago (edited 04-22-2001).]
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Originally posted by Dago:
I guess if Keiren is unhappy with the AH community, maybe he will choose not to participate in it anymore?
Dago
Hope not. Kieren is probably the coolest head in here and the last person I would want to see leave.
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Actually, I hope he doesnt leave either.
He is a good guy and good player. Just wish he wouldnt put down our community on a board where they salivate over any percieved problem here.
Dago
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FWIW. I don't consider the off topic section of another sim's forum, being "upfront". Especially for a post that aggressively negative. Suggesting that it does, looks like a bill clinton dance step to me.
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I was little surprised when I saw that post but after all Kieren is free to post his thoughts in AGW if he wants.
(Thought I would post issues like that in AH's UBB if needed)
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Originally posted by easymo:
For the last forty years I have preferred the company of bikers to that of "decent folks". The reason for this is that when a biker calls a man an amazinhunk, he does it to his face. He does not just go around the neighborhood badmouthing the other guy.
[/b]
As you guys well know, I rarely post to these types of threads, I like to keep my posts light and humourous however......
From what I've gathered we AH'ers are considered rude and crude by AW'ers & WB'ers, this may in a large part be due to the fact that some members of our community are quick to call someone an A-hole.
Some feel that because they pay thier $30 a month they are entitled to play anyway they want and be as offensive as they want.
In a small part I contribute this behavior to people "forgetting" that there is a real live person on the other end of thier abuse, and there is more than just a computer screen recieving thier keystrokes.
Of course a larger part of it is "internet courage" as it's too easy to be an A-hole when the possiblity of getting your bellybutton handed to you is so remote as to be non-exsistant.
Then add in the individuals that just like to get a rise out of someone and feel the easiest way to do that is to insult them.
Not to be forgotten are the "name in lights" people, the ones that like to see thier name scrolling down the screen/text buffer so much that when they run outta positive things to type, resort to negative or inflammatory comments.
As you all know there is not an easy solution to these behaviors, although it appears that HTC is taking steps to curb it.
I'd hazard to guess that the old adage of "treat others as you'd like to be treated" just isn't part of some players beliefs.
I think it should be remembered that while it's true the squeeky wheel gets the most oil, it's also true that it's the first wheel that gets replaced, as a couple of banned members have recently found out.
I'm sure alot of AH'ers feel as I do, That a player's online gaming ability has little to do with how much I respect them, it's more in how they interact with those they come in contact with that really makes 'em noteworthy community members.
Kieran has always been a class act, as demonstrated by how he conducts himself in the game and here on the AH BBS.
And IMO is a respected community leader.
Milenko
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"I'd hazard to guess that the old adage of "treat others as you'd like to be treated" just isn't part of some players beliefs."
As luck would have it, the last topic I posted on this forum, was a link to a page, to help kieren enjoy his new cable. (Strange behavior for a member of the cesspool.)
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A-hole (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
SOB
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Originally posted by easymo:
"On a regular day the AH BBS is a sewer".
________________Posted by kieren on AGW
Thats a little strong. Doont you think?
well, it is very close to the truth IMO. And at least in Kieren's eyes it is.
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Wow.
Read the thread on AGW. I was upset how Argo was treated by the other sim's developer. I voiced both my support of Doug and the WB community. I made an offhand comment that they didn't want the AGW BBS to become what AH BBS has as of late. That's it.
Never did I say that I dislike this community, and that is a pretty far leap of logic. I have stated many times over my stay here about the direction the tone of the BBS and MA has taken for the worse. I still do have concerns. I could post them here 24/7, but after a point who listens?
Here's another thing to consider; suppose for a second we all were a bit more balanced about what we say about all the sims? Suppose that we did, in the course of discussion with another community, admit some of the shortcomings of ours when expressing upset over one of theirs?
There is a lot I like about AH; there is not all that much I dislike. This BBS is hostile at times, and that is something I don't think I should have to point out to anyone. That is something I really do wish was different, but suggesting any changes to the tone of the board is to be met with calls of "don't read my stuff then", or "I hate the BBS Gestapo"- take your pick. I have contributed to the rancor at times by addressing behavior that I felt was wrong- in the end I think it was futile and just made everyone involved look bad.
Yes, Easymo, you did give me a link. Thanks very much. But if you want to twist that excerpt out of the quote to mean I hate this community, or that I tried to make comments about this community behind their backs- well, you're going to think it no matter what I say anyway.
Let me say it bluntly here- I do think this place gets pretty nasty at times. How many times have we seen a thread that started positively get hijacked within three posts to go completely negative? How much more often does that happen now than before? Who are we trying to kid, anyway. Anyone else notice the number of people that used to post insightful posts becoming eerily silent?
I'm not innocent. I have been part of a few of the flamefests here in the past, and I am not proud of it. I used to enjoy reading posts from players like Nash, Leonid, and banana. If what I have said has contributed to them backing away from the boards then I am immensely ashamed.
You guys will think what you want. I am not sorry for what I said, or where I said it for that matter. Believe it or not the post wasn't even about AH, it was about Argo's treatment and his contribution to WB's. If, after the time I have spent here I am going to be judged as a heretic for one dissenting comment about AH after the countless comments of support, well, I just have to laugh.
[edit]
For those that really care about this stuff, follow the link to read the thread.
http://agw.dogfighter.com/agw//Forum7/HTML/001668.html (http://agw.dogfighter.com/agw//Forum7/HTML/001668.html)
You'll note how the conversation started and developed.
[This message has been edited by Kieran (edited 04-22-2001).]
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"But if you want to twist that excerpt out of the quote"
Its pretty had to misinterpret a statement like, "on a regular day the AH BBS is a sewer". Even at that I didn't condemn kieren for his post. I only asked if he didn't feel that it was a little strong. It seems to me he was painting with a very broad brush.
I'm not in the habit of "piling on". In the rare instances that I have a problem with another player. I address them directly. I am not automatically negative about what is posted, but if I disagree with the poster, I will post my argument. I think this is true of most of the people here.
As to where you posted. My response was to akdejavu post. And I stand by IT.
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C'mon, Easymo. You know that if I have a problem with a particular person I will tell them so. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Kieran (edited 04-23-2001).]
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Lets take that one more time:
". How many times have we seen a thread that started positively get hijacked within three posts to go completely negative? How much more often does that happen now than before? Who are we trying to kid, anyway. Anyone else notice the number of people that used to post insightful posts becoming eerily silent?"
Its not a matter of whos is best, AGW or this board.Its a matter of this community having a common IQ like an augering locked up 109, heh.
Thx Kieren <S>
danish
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Put simply, Kieran's right.
AH is becoming just as known for the vitriolic nature of it's comunity as it is for the quality of it's software.
This thread is a perfect example.
Here we have a group of people turning on some one who by popular consensus is considered a gentleman, and most of you are loving it. Any minute now some body will come up with a list of stats proving how Kierans' perverting AH with his attitude, and someone else will say it's all because of the Chog.
Soon the abuse and vieled "if I could climb down the phone cable you'd be MINE" comments will start.
I'm glad I switched from AW to AH; the software's incomparably better. I'm very glad never to have flown Warbirds, from what I've seen from it's former players I'd not have enjoyed the enjoyed the ego queens who think it's their right to piss people off.
When AH was first launched, there was intense debate in AW on wiether $30 per month would raise the standard of behaviour in comparison to AW at $9,95.
You people are the living proof that argument was flawed.
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Originally posted by Kieran:
...... Anyone else notice the number of people that used to post insightful posts becoming eerily silent?
well said kieran....
thanks for saying it for the rest of us. <S>
just returning after a while away but do notice that not much has changed here.
its hard to post anything on this particular board, mainly due to people like XXxxxxxx who thinks he's the self appointed BBS police with his usual posting OCD behavior. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
he'll jump on most threads faster than a fox on a hen to yell it belongs in OT or belittle the poster with his head games. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
not hard to figure why most people with interesting things to discuss don't bother any more with this place.
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I don't always agree with Kieren but this time I do.
This BBS HAS been going down hill lately. So much so that we have people being banned and/or having threads locked.
I miss the long winded nit picking post we used to have on here about what size rivet was used on the unheard of AC. That's not sarcasm either.(Badger where for art thou?)
We used to have great informative post that made me stop and think. Now we have so many people that will jump on you and make it a personal attack when they don't agree with you.
I'm hoping the locked post and the banning of some of the posters will help the BBS get back to the way it used to be.
Kieren was posting his opinion on another BBS and that's where it should have stayed.
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Paint me in Kieren's corner on this one.
Fact remains that once upon a time personal attacks either in arena or here on BB were a rarity. Nowadays it seems most threads end up that way.
Even those who are saying things "in jest" are contributeing to the problem.
Time to stand up & be counted people. Either you believe in common respect & courtesy for everyone or you don't.
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AH Scenario Corp
332nd Flying Mongrels
[This message has been edited by Ghosth (edited 04-23-2001).]
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As population increases, so do varieties of opinions...
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You people do realize that you are agreeing that your posts are drivel, and you hang out in a sewer.
Oh! Wait! Of course. He didn't mean YOU. He meant the other guy.
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Originally posted by easymo:
You people do realize that you are agreeing that your posts are drivel, and you hang out in a sewer.
Yes. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Well in rip"s case even I agree with him. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Easymo just what are you trying to do with this post?(besides dragging us into the sewer again)
If you disagree with Kieren and the others ..fine you have made your point.
If it is to slam Kieren for making the statement ..well then you have proven his point.
Either way give it a rest.
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Mighty1. I couldn't seem to find those posts, where you wildly disagreed with your brother.
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Quote from Easymo
Mighty1. I couldn't seem to find those posts, where you wildly disagreed with your brother.
What the hell are you talking about?
I said :
I don't always agree with Kieren but this time I do.
I never claimed to "wildly" disagree with him nor did I claim to disagree with him on this BBS.
Let's try to stay with the material that is given you OK? Let's not add things to people's messages then try to prove them wrong for saying something they didn't say.
Man I gotta stop responding to this sewage.
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And this will be my last post, on this subject. My porpoise can be found in the first post. I repeated it farther down.
"Even at that I didn't condemn kieren for his post. I only asked if he didn't feel that it was a little strong. It seems to me he was painting with a very broad brush".
kieren made a sweeping, offhand statement, that called into question the intelligence, and integrity of every person who posts on this bbs. I wanted to give him a chance to amend that statement. His response, can be found above. The irony is that he is doing the very thing he is accusing us of. Calling anyone who does not think the way he does a nitwit.
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The irony is that he is doing the very thing he is accusing us of. Calling anyone who does not think the way he does a nitwit.
The comment I made was about the recent tone of the BBS, not any person in particular. That you are saying for yourself.
Easymo, I am sorry you were personally offended. There is nothing more I have for you on it.
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Easymo, if you do indeed hang with real bikers, then you know that the one thing you do not do is slag a brother. Jack with him to his face, sure.
Kieren, I was wondering why I knew the name, it was the old DOA days, Salute!
You guys better be nice, Kieren is one of your best.
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Originally posted by easymo:
And this will be my last post, on this subject. My porpoise can be found in the first post.
Your WHAT? You have a fish in your post?
Or is your porpoise your ding dong? In which case, my porpoise can be found in my pants... and you'd better not come looking for it!
-SW
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I agree with Kieren as well.
Twist the words anyway you want, the community is in a bad state.
Is it AH burnout thats causing some to leave or think of leaving ? I believe its the tiresome attitude that we are left to deal with.
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I used to enjoy reading posts from players like Nash, Leonid, and banana. If what I have said has contributed to them backing away from the boards then I am immensely ashamed.
Oh no no man, absolutely not. Not even close Kieren. And even the heated political debates we got into awhile back were kinda fun, really. Ya know... interesting. I learned a lot from you.
As far as me backing off the board, uhm... not sure if I can pinpoint a reason. Maybe though...
I guess I find this BBS to be rather cyclical.
That is... a new version comes out (or for whatever reason), and we see an influx of new guys around here. With that comes the new rounds of extremely tired complaints. Chog/Niki, Buff guns, chute shootin' dweebs, HO's suck... erhm... you get where I'm going. Been there seen it done that.
But alas, posted again as if these gripes weren't already beaten to death a thousand times over already. So, there's just not a whole lotta new info to add that hasn't been said many many times in the past. Perhaps just replying with a link to one of the hundreds of related threads where that stuff was hashed out would be appropriate. But that would mean going and finding those old threads and that wouldn't be too much fun.
And it's not that I can blame the new guys for this either though. I mean, to them, it's all brand spanking new. When I first started here, I personally never really lay awake at night sweating over the thought of gettin' killed in my chute or anything like that... but hey. Different strokes I guess. At this point in time it's rocking the very foundation of their worlds, some of them, and who am I to suggest that they, ah, breathe or something. At least you can only do that so many times before it gets a bit monotonous.
And I sure as hell aint gonna *contribute* to those sorts of squeak fests... mostly cuz I really have no complaints.
I was thinking the other day... if I started one of those threads, what would it be about? Couldn't think of anything. Not one original idea. In fact, the only thing I could think of that I wanted to see in AH was that if you didn't move yer mouse for 5 seconds, the pointer would disappear so it wouldn't keep gettin' in the damn way allatime.
So yeah... whaddahmy gonna add to yet another hispano discussion? Kinda hard to get involved without making things nastier, I reckon. I just haven't got the creativity for it.
But... that being said, I'll post more frequently when I get the taste for it back. I've never stopped reading this forum. And my lack of input here lately *certainly* is due to nothing you've said. From my perspective, easymo is gettin' a little too excited over....uhm... whatever this particular thread is about.
To many of us, flight simmin' is a serious hobby.... a passion if there ever was one... But it's prolly not such a good idea to get too swept up in these little sideshow dramas. They just make the participants seem a little... I dunno....goofy? Don't get me wrong though... usually quite fun to read. Yeah, it would be rather boring otherwise. But it's nothing at all... really... it just doesn't mean anything... when yer locked into a 5 minute deck fight against a superior opponent. Those battles are why I fly AH. Not for the battles that happen on this BBS.
But... heh... I'm human. I'll get sucked in again and again for sure... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Christ... it amazes me sometimes how much I ramble on.
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Hiya folks!
Mighty1: Because you asked, Badger is now running the Business end of Sickware's www.targetware.net (http://www.targetware.net) . He is still on their forums (although usually under the company letterhead) and is just as long winded as ever (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(kidding Doug!)
Kieren- I don't think Leonid's decrease in activity has anything to do with this UBB. Leonid does not even play AH anymore for his own personal reasons.
However all of us VVS pilot types are heavily involved with Il-2 Sturmovich by Maddox Games. I know of the 5GvIAP both Cleaner and I are Beta testers and Leo will probably be too after Oleg's personal list gets processed and the CD's sent out.
However if you feel the need for a whiff of sanity 715A still posts here infrequently and is always worth reading.
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Hang and SOB sit in the shade of the big elm outside the ready rooms, pulling on cold ones, listening to the debate rage on the boards. Hang shakes his head, utters a heavy sigh. SOB looks over and sez "What??"
"Sorry assed state of affirs, ain't it; when a freeloader feels it's ok to badmouth the payin customers for speakin truth."
SOB nods sagely. "Yup. The chump whips up on newbies all day fer free, then comes over here and tells us our house stinks like a sewer. The nerve. *hic* Speakin of sewers, you seen Fatty's mom lately?"
"Nah. ..not since I got my shots and she started datin Animal. I hear CDC Atlanta is lookin fer 'em both...."
And the sun sinks slowly into the west.
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err..it's a game, not the real world
treat it like one and you should be fine
Tronsky
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Nice ta see the complete lack of respect continues, Hey HTC, I think the aggression level's are overmodeled, Oh wait, I don't have the scores ta back my statements.
And let's not drag bikers inta your nasty little mess here, while we will speak our minds, true, We also give credit for folks who have class.
Not a lotta credit around here lately.
(And no, I'm still not flying, And at this rate , probably won't)
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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"