Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ripsnort on May 07, 2002, 07:47:37 AM
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Not the kind of drag you see on a FDB in person, but the ATA combat stuff..lately I see folks in trouble that will drag an aircraft directly to me or a friendly...my only thought is they must be thinking it will distract the bogie on their tail...it does not, the bogie avoids the HO and continues on your tail, not only that, but now the person you have dragged to has to do a 180 deg turn, burning off any potential E he had to help you out.
Folks, if your in trouble, and co-alt to a friendly with a bogie on your 6, do NOT drag directly to the friendly if you want help.
(Rip gets off soapbox)
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amen!
kinda hard to pick up a drag when they fly under yer nose.
and im at 400ias it is better to drag away from your wingie then to drag the nme under his nose.
the best way is to take them in a gentle turn if you can.
bleeds nme and makes it easier for your wing man to catch him and hopefully clear your 6. :D
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It's also pretty interesting to take a drag when the guy doing the leading is yanking and banking all over the sky.
Try to fly in one direction; you're going to need to jink, but those hard turns make it much harder to kill the guy that's trying to kill you.
I am becomming an expert at the 'drag'. I seem to have an aweful lot of red people bolted to my tail.
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Rip I have found this to be so true.
However its not just new guys that do it. So my 1st theory on this was blown away by folks who have been in ah awhile doing the same thing.
Its exagerated now because of the large numbers in the arena.
I now think that in an arena with such a variety of plane types flown by each side that folks dont take into consideration the type of plane the guys coming to clear their 6 are flying.
Part of sa is knowing where and what plane your friends are flying.
Heres a recent example.
Me and cmorris upped in 152s to intercept an hq raid. The buffs were to high but their p47 escort decided to make a run at us.
We turned our 6 to one of umm level and hit wep. Morris was trailing d300 to 4-6 o'clock. He asks what i wanna do I say im going left you go right.
The jug followed cmorris around to the right i circled left cmorris drug him right to me boom hes ded. Similar to image below
(http://www.3-jg2.com/3jg2image/split1.jpg)
Another jug tried to help but he was late. We formed back up line abreast and headed right at him he passed above us about 3k higher then split essed and dropped in on cmorris.
(http://www.3-jg2.com/3jg2image/split.jpg)
We did a wide crossover and cmorris drug him right to me. Again he was ded.
We then go to rtb and spot a 10k p38 engaging a lower friendly. We are at 17k. I dive in to clear this guys 6 everytime i get a firing solution the friendly breaks hard into me like 5 times. The good thing is the p38 was following him bleeding his e.
I am at a point where there other nme ib to either bleed all my e in an attempt to save this guy or just right him off. I type to him "quit turnig into me" he breaks the other way and boom im on the 38s tail. 38 breaks away I climb the friendly is clear.
I see the 38 extending and nose down after him. after a few turns he augers and luckily I rtb.
The friendly had eng damage and ditched. He would have been ok had he broke away from his help not into it.
(http://www.3-jg2.com/3jg2image/Drag.gif)
in the image above 1 is being chased by 2. 3 sees this and dives to help. 1 breaks away from 3 and provides him with an easy shot should 2 follow. If 2 breaks then its 2 v 1 vrs the e la7.
Had 1 broke into 2 the 3 would have to zoom into a pitch bac manuver giving 2 more time on 1s 6. If the area is packed then this could be dangerous for 3.
Just my 2 cents
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Well I'll admit I'm one of those guys that could benefit from this little gem of a thread...thx guys, will try to put it to good use! :)
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I think the problem is that the friendly you are trying to help assumes you are in a spit too.
:)
F.
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Also see:
The art and science of dragging (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=13279)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Not the kind of drag you see on a FDB in person, but the ATA combat stuff..lately I see folks in trouble that will drag an aircraft directly to me or a friendly...
With the "new" VOX HiTech gave us, most people should have the ability to hear, even if no mic to speak with, that being said, one item I've gotten into the habit of telling my squaddies on voice comms, is which side of them I am on, so as to have them turn away from me, this allows me to saddle up without wasting all my "E" tryin' to reverse course back into the bogie. (i.e. if I'm on a friendlie's right side he should turn left 45deg)
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I am to the point of NOT bleeding my E to help someone that turns into me.
Great post!
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AMEN Rip :)
And to all you turn and burn guys out there....
If you see a P-51D coming in at 350+ MPH, don't expect him to shoot down your bandit if you keep pulling a 4G turn in a 100 yard radius circle either.
This is one Mustang pilot that isn't about to become low and slow for nothing.
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Right on Rip! And Right on Midnight!
Lately I've had the luck to clear the 6 of a few people who KNEW how to drag, they just kept forward and then pulled them up in a gentle climb, letting them in closer and thus distracting them more, the result? A smoking burning and falling Little sissyfire and a happy allive friend.
All too often though, a friend is dragging, he sees you come in, you yell to him over radio and type to him DO NOT TURN STAY ON COURSE! Of course, this guy makes a 6g 180 Turn, comes right to me and then gets killed because I fail to follow the 6G turn in my 500mph, the result being a dead friend and only a possible kill for me.
Listen to what Rip said, listen to what Midnight said, and THINK. ALWAYS THINK "what is the best way for me to drag, my friend is there, the enemy is there and I am here, what should I do?" Think like that, act from it, and you will survive in 95% of the times it happens.
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Heres another image
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I practice dragging enemies all the time...even when no one is there to help me (in fact, especially when there's no one there to help me:confused:). I'm really good at it now, but for some odd reason just can't seem to get enough practice:p.
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I had some tool griefer me with "check 6's" because I failed to clear his tail in a low, slow circle jerk with another spitfire. Let's see, I should have just popped the airbrakes on the La-7 I was flying to slow down from all the speed I built up dropping alt trying to save his ass, then threw out the "Bat-turn left" grapple and grew new, larger turnfighter wings to cut inside their 150mph turn. The same tool was whining later about people getting all his kills.
I try to do the easy low-g manuvering myself to let someone clear my tail, but there are times when you know that any such adjustment would end in death immediately. Of course, the key is not to get in such situation in the first place unless you're flying a zero :)
Charon
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Thanks Wotan!
Great pix....
One comment from the peanut gallery.
If I am dragging for a friendly and not in immediately in peril I think to myself "What would I need to do to get a set up for an attack". With that thought in mind, I WILL manuver the drag to set up the bandit for such an attack by my buddy.
One thing that does help is to watch the friendly on the bandits six. If you can pull verticle zoom just as the friendly closes to gun range (d400 or less). This will often give him a really nice canopy shot. Just make sure to keep gentle G on.
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Bah, don't blame everyone else because your HO gunnery sucks!:D
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
not only that, but now the person you have dragged to has to do a 180 deg turn, burning off any potential E he had to help you out.
Hah! Maybe you do, but I hit WEP and continue in the same direction, maybe with a little climb. The only people I make exceptions for are squaddies and other people I like.
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I got fed up with this problem in Air Warrior years ago. As a result, I'll usually begin an approach to help. BUT, as soon as the "dragger" turns into me, I nose up, wave bye-bye and wish him luck.
Here's another one. Have ya ever been on vox hollering "BREAK LEFT BREAK LEFT" and your guy makes an immediate RIGHT?? lol. Gotta love those hehe.