Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ossie on May 08, 2002, 11:17:41 AM
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http://www.cnn.com/2002/fyi/teachers.ednews/05/08/graduation.policy.ap/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2002/fyi/teachers.ednews/05/08/graduation.policy.ap/index.html)
Not sure if I understand the reasoning. Sounds like all you have to do is show intent. Makes the percentages seem weightless and useless.
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BS of the highest order. :mad:
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WTF is the matter with them? Spending 4 years and passing and finishing isn't enough to get to go to your own graduation?!?! What the hell is the matte with people? :mad:
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"I don't like it," said Kassie Finch, who said she got a letter of acceptance from Pierce College so she can participate in the ceremony but will likely work at her mother's law office after graduation.
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What a load of crap. This is just what universities need; students who have no intention of attending college clogging up the college acceptance system with bogus applications just so they can participate in HS graduation. :rolleyes:
I feel a lawsuit coming on.
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Look where it's coming from...what do you expect? :rolleyes:
Soon you won't be able to graduate unless you say your gay!
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What happens when amazinhunks are put in a position of authority.
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Originally posted by SOB
What happens when amazinhunks are put in a position of authority.
Not so much amazinhunks as retards.
That isn't all too uncommon in our country- retards in power- just look at capitol hill.
-SW
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San Fernando Valley high schools...
Like, I'm so sure
-Sikboy
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Next they'll make them wear uniforms .
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Let's save the school uniform argument for another thread. :D
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thats roadkill anyway people can lie graduate and go on flippin burgers at mcdonalds if they want
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Originally posted by vorticon
thats roadkill anyway people can lie graduate and go on flippin burgers at mcdonalds if they want
Got your future all planned out do ya?
-Sikboy
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Originally posted by Samm
Next they'll make them wear uniforms .
Oh yeah, uniforms would be terrible :rolleyes:
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Initial estimates show that up to 95 percent of District C seniors have made a post-secondary commitment this year. Last year, without the policy, 54 percent took that step.
"The policy basically says to our community that we hold very high expectations of our graduates," said District C Superintendent Robert Collins. "Is the policy harsh? I don't think so at all. A harsh policy is when we ignore youngsters."
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I think it's a great idea. Far too many kids are getting out of HS without a clue as what to do next.
Isn't graduation mean you are "graduating" to something? A next level? Otherwise you are just finishing something not graduating at all...
"cannot take part in graduation ceremonies"
They still "finish" HS, they just don't "graduate" formally. With a jump from 54% to 95% (some of which I'm sure are bogus), I'd say it seems to be working..
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I like the intent of this policy but excluding good students from graduation would be kinda lame.
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Well.... I use to think Wva was the inbred capitol of the nation. I now see I was wayyyyyyy off base. Silicon and inbreeding have taken its toll. Hell...just take a peek at holywood.
xBAT
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school uniforms HA they do that students walk out and dont come back till they change policy simple as that
and yes my future is all planned out
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Graduation is to mark what you have already accomplished, not what you intend to do. These administrators need to be sent on a time out and denied permission to attend graduation. What a bunch of morons with faulty "reasoning".
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What Maverick said.
You graduated FROM high school not to college.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
What Maverick said.
You graduated FROM high school not to college.
-SW
two ways to look at the word:
Main Entry: grad.u.ate
Pronunciation: 'gra-j&-"wAt
Function: verb
Etymology: Medieval Latin graduare, from Latin gradus step, degree
Date: 15th century
Inflected Form(s): -at.ed; -at.ing
transitive senses
:to grant an academic degree or diploma to b : to be graduated from
and/or
: to admit to a particular standing or grade
intransitive senses
1 : to receive an academic degree or diploma
2 : to pass from one stage of experience, proficiency, or prestige to a usually higher one
"civil libertarians are calling the new policy elitist" is garbage.
It won't last as it is "to hard" on our soft youth of today...
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With a jump from 54% to 95% (some of which I'm sure are bogus), I'd say it seems to be working..
Hitler made the trains run on-time too.
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c'mon GOPites......Where are your "Get Big Government out of my hair" Republiclown values? This is the same kind of meddlesome crap the conservatives love to rant against.
:rolleyes:
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"...cannot take part in graduation ceremonies unless their future plans include college, military service or trade school."
This is the problem. The child who wants to work in the family business or already has an IT job lined up are not allowed to participate.
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Which catagory does smoke pot, drink booze and try not to get anybody pregnant fall under ?
Oh wait that's all of them .
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More from the "Other Side"...
What you guys don't realize is oftentimes state funding is in part based upon graduation rates and college bound students. In short, it "looks better" for the school to be "sending" more students to college. I see this rule as nothing more than a blatant attempt to inflate a stat for "school improvement" purposes.
Let me give you a for instance- our school corporation is currently involved in a stated-mandated self-improvement process. We are required to meet three target goals, one of which is school environment. We are required to assess our environment, target problems, generate plans to bring about improvement, then quantify that improvement. So, how do we do that? Take attendance as an example. Schools lose money when students have poor attendance- that's a fact. How do you bring attendance up at the high school level? Why, you cull kids out of the middle schools that are problems and redirect them to "alternative programs", of course. Attendance percentages go up, school saves money. Incidentally, this doesn't hurt your graduation rate, either. Too bad for the kids in the "alternative schools" though.
College-bound percentages (as mentioned before) also affect the money a school receives. What do we do? We create what we call "Core 40" and push kids we believe are college bound into them. We of course steer them away from arts, music, business, and PE (those are the "dumb kid" classes). This may sound fine in concept, but ultimately the students wind up in classes that are no more worthy in terms of college prep what the student would otherwise have taken, while life-skill classes are ignored. It totally ignores the fact many kids can't or won't go to college no matter what, yet they are going to get shortchanged in order to help boost the school's "college-bound" numbers.
You are right to be suspicious of a school's stats on any topic. Schools play games because of the pressure to do so from big government mandates that are unrealistic or outright foolish. There are plenty of people making decisions about the way public shools work that have no idea what their ideas will do in the real world. Too many chiefs, not enough indians.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
c'mon GOPites......Where are your "Get Big Government out of my hair" Republiclown values? This is the same kind of meddlesome crap the conservatives love to rant against.
:rolleyes:
Well Im not against this because I'm conservative, but this is exactly the kind of crap that makes me a conservative. These kids have toiled for 12+ years to get to this moment. Only to be told that because they aren't conforming to what some idiotic school board thinks they should do with the rest of their lives they have to miss the one thing they've been working for their whole lives. Boy how I'd love to be a senior w/ like a 3.5+ GPA w/ no plans for military or college.
I'd show up to graduation and start praying and thanking God :D I hate frivolous lawsuits but these kids should form a class action lawsuit against the school district and make them redo graduation so that everybody who graduated gets the ceremony. Man what a bucnh of Orwellian BS.....
Get em indoctrinated young and they'll conform for the rest of thier lives.......
What ever happened to liberty?
[edit]
Word up on what Keiren posted.
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Word Udie .
"Johnny aspired to join the military after graduation and be a green beret . However due the regimentation in his formulative years he was judged to be too "conventional of thought" by the cadre at SFAS and was subsequently not selected to wear the green beanie."
Johnny did well in the ranks of the regular army however . He retired a man embittered toward youth, and saw nothing wrong with mandatory uniforms in public schools .
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Originally posted by Udie
I'd show up to graduation and start praying and thanking God :D
Hey Udie, If you graduated from High School I would fall to my knees and pray too because it would confirm the existance of miracles...either that or how incredibly low the standards have become for graduation.
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Eagler, I do not understand what you mean by "too hard on today's soft youth"?
If you think going to college is too hard on today's soft youth, then I got news for you. There are many more college bound high schoolers today than there were 15 years ago. The colleges are becomming overcrowded and many students are put on waiting lists... sometimes to be told they won't be accepted until the following semester and end up going to community college.
So, what exactly is "too hard on today's soft youth"?
-SW
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Actually, Musolinni made the trains run on time, Hitler just assured that all the seats were full(one way tickets, of course).
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Also, Wulfie, the universities are crowded because it takes 6 years to graduate-the first 2 years are to teach you what you should have learned in high school.
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Originally posted by Gadfly
Also, Wulfie, the universities are crowded because it takes 6 years to graduate-the first 2 years are to teach you what you should have learned in high school.
Pfft!
Just what is it kids are supposed to have learned in high school that would have prepared them for today's service industry marketplace? Is it possible for a general education in the public schools to provide for every contingency career available out of college? This is pretty naive.
The fact it takes longer to get out of college can be attributed to the increasing complexity of the workplace, the specialization of tasks performed, and the broad range of possible occupations. It burns the candle at both ends. It is far better to teach kids to think than to give them a specific piece of information- chances are they will face training throughout their careers, and if their thinking is inflexible they will most likely ultimately fail.
Nope, don't look to your left or right and see the training that is going on and continues in your workplace even as we speak. Don't pay attention to the frightened look on your co-workers' faces as they are once again told they need to learn something new. It can't be technology is growing at an exponential rate, and its introduction into the workplace has caused a fundamental shift in the training paradigm right down to the formal educational level. Kids want to learn, teachers want to teach, but it isn't the same system we all grew up in a few years ago.
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Don't worry SOB you have 8 more years before you need to make a college choice:)
NUTTZ
Originally posted by SOB
What happens when amazinhunks are put in a position of authority.
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Eagler, I do not understand what you mean by "too hard on today's soft youth"?
If you think going to college is too hard on today's soft youth, then I got news for you. There are many more college bound high schoolers today than there were 15 years ago. The colleges are becomming overcrowded and many students are put on waiting lists... sometimes to be told they won't be accepted until the following semester and end up going to community college.
So, what exactly is "too hard on today's soft youth"?
-SW
I meant this school boards policy of have to have future plans after HS at graduation time will be/is by some now - considered to hard for our soft youth to have to endure and thus will be scratched.
College bound kids would not have issue with the policy - just the ones who think they are entitled to "graduate" to the livingroom couch and watch ppv & play video games would argue against such a policy. We need to push our youth to excel, not baby them...
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Originally posted by Kieran
Don't pay attention to the frightened look on your co-workers' faces as they are once again told they need to learn something new.
hahaha I love that look! :)
-Sikboy
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You are flat out wrong, Eagler, if I understand you correctly. You seem to assume that all students need to go to college to be successful, and this is not true.
It is also false to assume all students can afford to pay for college- they can't.
It is also false to assume a teenage mother will be able to go to college, hold down a job, and take care of a child. Taking another piece of her dignity away accomplishes nothing.
Mentally handicapped and otherwise disabled children may not be able to go to college- should we exclude them, too?
What if a student decides farming is the way to go? What, we don't need farmers?
The decision to go to college isn't black and white; that this edict is a stat builder for the school IS crystal clear.
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Yes Kieran
you misunderstood me. I'm saying this policy is to get the kids to think about their future. Period. Seems they, school board, wants them to have bigger plans than to sit around the house or roam the streets after HS.
I'm am sure it is not hard to get whatever is needed for this program to allow them to graduate with their class. If 95% of the entire student body figured it out :rolleyes:
The other 5% is probably only dealing with the total loser riff raff that slept through HS and the other 95% of the students would rather not have to stand next to during the ceramonies anyway.
But don't push them, they are too fragile ... they'll grow up when they are ready :rolleyes:
Yep I do agree with this too;
"that this edict is a stat builder for the school IS crystal clear"
I'm sure the schools are just as concerned with their futures (jobs), if not more so, than their typical L.A. HS student - that's a given.
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As stated above, every student that applies to a college, is accepted, but has no intention of attending means one more student who is well-intended missing an opportunity. Scholarships awarded to those merely filling out an app so they can attend their graduation ceremony? Can that be good?
I think the worst thing about this as far as I'm concerned is the legislation of career path. Not all careers involve college. Some people may forego a career altogether and stay home to be mothers . The kids are old enough to vote, they should have the right to decide what direction they are going.
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
Hey Udie, If you graduated from High School I would fall to my knees and pray too because it would confirm the existance of miracles...either that or how incredibly low the standards have become for graduation.
high school was a joke, I had my G.E.D. before I was supposed to graduate and it was the easiest test I've ever taken in my life, could have past it after the 8th grade with no problem.....
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Damn, Udie, you're supposed to get mad and call me names....
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There will be a lawsuit, the schools will lose... doesn't take a crystal ball to figure this one out.
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I don't see what law the school is violating, it's their ceremony I think they can dictate who goes.
I don't believe payment for education includes going to the graduation ceremony.
if they made policy that interfered with getting an education that was paid for, I could see, but the ceremony isn't part of that.
I think it's a crappy move by the school, I just don't see how a lawsuit would shape up.
maybe someone can explain that to me.
More and more I see 'industries' trying to dictate to customers.
With a free market I don't see how that can prevail.
There is competition, people have free choice, may the best service/product/system win.
Kanthy
Originally posted by Tumor
There will be a lawsuit, the schools will lose... doesn't take a crystal ball to figure this one out.
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Originally posted by Kanth
I don't see what law the school is violating, it's their ceremony I think they can dictate who goes.
I don't believe payment for education includes going to the graduation ceremony.
if they made policy that interfered with getting an education that was paid for, I could see, but the ceremony isn't part of that.
I think it's a crappy move by the school, I just don't see how a lawsuit would shape up.
maybe someone can explain that to me.
More and more I see 'industries' trying to dictate to customers.
With a free market I don't see how that can prevail.
There is competition, people have free choice, may the best service/product/system win.
Kanthy
It doesn't take breaking a law to bring a lawsuit. This is nothing more than an elitist attitude that should (and will) be put to a stop. Whats next? Hmmmm, well, if you don't have plans dictated by the schoolboard for post "HS Diploma", well I guess you don't need to be in High School in the first place do ya? Think about it.
Tumor
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Originally posted by SOB
What happens when amazinhunks are put in a position of authority.
he will become a president of country soon
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What Tumor said. Civil liberties unions live for this kind of stuff.
Orel- tell us about the guy currently in charge of your country. ;)
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I was looking for more detailed response. Not a "they suck and *will* be punished" response.
As far as what's next. We can sit around and make what if's up all day long. Until something happens I won't be thinking about it.
Kanthy
Originally posted by Tumor
It doesn't take breaking a law to bring a lawsuit. This is nothing more than an elitist attitude that should (and will) be put to a stop. Whats next? Hmmmm, well, if you don't have plans dictated by the schoolboard for post "HS Diploma", well I guess you don't need to be in High School in the first place do ya? Think about it.
Tumor
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Kanthy-
I know the school corporation I work for has been sued for less provocation. Maybe the plaintiff didn't win, but policy changes nonetheless. Schools don't have the deep pockets people believe, and if they can avoid a lawsuit by changing a policy, they will.
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Public schools are not free market but public sector. After all school board are the "servants" of the people and public should have a say in how the schools are run - through courts, election of the school board, etc.
They should not be allowed make arbitrary rules like the private companies do - they are using our money.
Where the free market should act is teh college enrollment. Schools should not try to make children enroll. They should prepare children to enroll.
Even if encouraging children to enroll into colleges was beneficial to society, the school should do it by educating children and explaining advantages to them over the whole time - not trying to compensate their deficient work by offering the final "carrot".
The issue with a graduation os obviously an invasio of privacy. An individual's plans are his/her own buisiness. Discriminating between people based on what plans the BIG BROTHER likes is contrary to the principles of our society.
One stupid guy may decide to enroll into a crappy college using his Affirmative Action privileges to get in. Another smart may decide to first serve his country in the armed forces or do some humanitarian work before enrolling into the college. Who is to decide which one should be encouraged.
miko
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This is more of what I was looking for, thanks miko. =)
I would like to see "Should" and "Should not" changed to
"are" and "are not" -be
Kanthy
Originally posted by miko2d
Public schools are not free market but public sector. After all school board are the "servants" of the people and public should have a say in how the schools are run - through courts, election of the school board, etc.
They should not be allowed make arbitrary rules like the private companies do - they are using our money.
Where the free market should act is teh college enrollment. Schools should not try to make children enroll. They should prepare children to enroll.
Even if encouraging children to enroll into colleges was beneficial to society, the school should do it by educating children and explaining advantages to them over the whole time - not trying to compensate their deficient work by offering the final "carrot".
The issue with a graduation os obviously an invasio of privacy. An individual's plans are his/her own buisiness. Discriminating between people based on what plans the BIG BROTHER likes is contrary to the principles of our society.
One stupid guy may decide to enroll into a crappy college using his Affirmative Action privileges to get in. Another smart may decide to first serve his country in the armed forces or do some humanitarian work before enrolling into the college. Who is to decide which one should be encouraged.
miko
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Originally posted by Kieran
Orel- tell us about the guy currently in charge of your country. ;)
hehe you probably know a bit about Czech..
yeah he is an old lobotomized fossil, peace of dead brain :D
any other questions ? :)
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Kieran's right about some things.
He's wrong about students arriving prepared for college.
The problem isn't that we're preparing students for a service (=slave) economy; basic grammar skills haven't changed that much in the last two thousand years. Or maybe we just don't have the system (nobody does) to teach both slaves and masters under the same roof.
But he's dead on about why this school is requiring future plans for graduation participation. There are politics involved, but it's not Democrats vs. Republicans or Liberal vs. Conservative; it's the funding game.
Remember Oakland schools and "Ebonics"? The reason they tried to claim most of their students were native Ebonics speakers wasn't because they honestly believed it, but because they were strapped for cash, and (something like) schools with over 50% non-native speakers got extra money.
Gee, now we have this pure genius "Leave no child behind" BS, which uses testing to divide the public schools into a top half and a bottom half. There's always gonna be a bottom half folks, and odds are it's going to correspond pretty closely with the half that doesn't get much money. So let's take more money away from them. That'll work.
And no, you won't see any kind of interesting behaviour on the part of administrators to ensure their school comes out on top in testing.
The kids who make it to the university may not know how to spell, read or write, but they sure can ace a multiple-choice exam.