Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: fdiron on May 09, 2002, 02:53:53 AM
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Correct me if I am wrong, but C4 can only be detonated by an electrical current right? I've read about U.S. soldiers in Vietnam using C4 to cook with. Is current C4 still this stable?
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Is that you Ahmed? Put that stuff away.... :)
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While I'm far from any expert in the area, I strongly suspect that the electrical current in itself has nothing to do with the explode or not explode-question for the C4.
My guess is that the electrical current set off a small device known as a detonator or percussion cap. This is what caused the C4 to explode.
If I remember demolitions class correctly (and it is really hard to translate this to english too), what sets off the explosion is the speed of the primary explosion, or how fast it burns. If you want to set off the explosives we used in the army, you would have to use a special kind of fuze that burns something like 1000 ft/second. You only needed something that burns something like 200 ft/second to set that fuze off though. So you'd take a small percussion cap and tape it to the fuze. Then you would put the fuze inside the explosives. You then used whatever method you wanted (most often electrical current) to set off the percussion cap, which would ignite the fuze, which would ignite the explosives.
or something like that. Please dont quote me on any numbers here though, I'm writing off the top of my head here, and I probably have all the details screwed up.
If you took the explosives we had in the army and threw those into a fire they would just melt into a gooey mess. Because normal fire doesnt burn fast enough to set them off. No one is his right frame of mind would use that to cook on, it smelled like puke and God knows exactly what kind of chemicals were flying around in that smoke.
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gruen ask him if you can borrow a pair of shoes :)
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I've read accounts of TNT being used as burning material.
I think it was during the winter war and -40C cold, the troops took captured explosives and melted the TNT out of them using heat from a campfire. I don't recall if it was used simply to boost the campfire or for lighting etc.
Most common explosives are made stable for safety reasons and they need an explosive cap to detonate. A stick of dynamite won't detonate if it's hit, burned etc. if it's in normal condition.
However if the stick is old and the nitro has oozed out of the packing, it's extremely unstable and dangerous. You should also always use gloves when handling dynamite sticks because the nitro will absorb through your skin and cause a monster headache if you don't. - Even if the sticks are ok.
Then if you want to perform a terrorist attack, make sure to put the detonator timer 30 minutes early because dynamite detonates with a delay. :P
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Here's a link that should answer your questions about C4,
and a few other things too.
http://www.fireandsafety.eku.edu/VFRE-99/Recognition/High/high.htm
Events.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but C4 can only be detonated by an electrical current right? I've read about U.S. soldiers in Vietnam using C4 to cook with. Is current C4 still this stable?
C4 is very stable. the only refinements that I know of was in the late 60's where they removed a chemical from the composition. Soldiers were chewing it and the chemical would give them a great high, however if the entire compound were swallowed it could be fatal.
C4, like any other hi-explosive, must have an explosive train to detonate it. It needs a small detonation proportionate to the size of the charge to make it go boom. Electrical current alone will not do anything to the C4, however the current (most popular) way of detonating C4 charges are using a eletrical blasting CAP. Maybe this is what you are refering too? The statement about US soldiers using it to cook with is likely true. However, when C4 is lit, it is VERY unstable. Stepping on a small lit portion would very likely cause a detonation. But as soon as the fire is out, the C4 is once again stable.
To go a little further and in general, all explosives are classified in two categories-- Lo-explosives, Hi-explosives. What determines what category is the burn rate of the composition. If I recall correctly, the line is drawn at 14,000 FPS. Anything under that is considered lo, such as gunpowder, black powder (not confined). ANything over 14K per sec is considered Hi. Examples are Comp B, RDX, PETN, C4 (very fast burning, unsuitable for encased munitions), tritonal, minol, TNT, Black powder (when sufficiently confined).
BTW, TNT is not safe to burn, it will cook off and detonate. Most likely it was C4
just the tip of the iceberg on this subject. Sorry I gave ya more than you wanted maybe.
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I believe the correct phrase is 'detonation velocity'. Essentially, the detonator creates a shockwave within the explosive which causes the explosion. More than that, if you need to ask, I'd really suggest consulting a professional. Playing with explosives is dangerous!
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Originally posted by qts
I believe the correct phrase is 'detonation velocity'. Essentially, the detonator creates a shockwave within the explosive which causes the explosion. More than that, if you need to ask, I'd really suggest consulting a professional. Playing with explosives is dangerous!
Deflagrate is the actual term.
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Originally posted by -ammo-
BTW, TNT is not safe to burn, it will cook off and detonate.
Theoretically it may under very unlikely conditions. If you want to use it as a fuel in a camp fire or a stove, you are perfectly safe.
Just remember to remove detonator from the shell before you put it into the file in order to melt TNT and pour it out.
miko
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Originally posted by miko2d
Theoretically it may under very unlikely conditions. If you want to use it as a fuel in a camp fire or a stove, you are perfectly safe.
Just remember to remove detonator from the shell before you put it into the file in order to melt TNT and pour it out.
miko
hmm, I recieved 3 years of training on the care, maintenance and use of explosives and never heard that.
Be advised that firewood would be a better substitute for fuel for your campfre or your stove. That is by chance that you had spare TNT laying around. Dont let the police or FBI know you have it. If you happen to have a license, then better to use it for what it was intended.
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Originally posted by -ammo-
Deflagrate is the actual term.
A deflagration has a subsonic propogation speed.
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Jack you are right, here is an exerpt from a website-
Deflagration and Detonation
The rate at which the reaction occurs is another method of classifying, especially chemical explosions. There are two classifications of explosions that describe something about their rate. They are deflagration and detonation.
Deflagration is a very rapid autocombustion of particles of an explosive as a surface phenomenon. This means the material actually burns in the absence of oxygen at a very rapid rate and from the surface inward. The rate of reaction is subsonic or in other words below the speed of sound. This rate, when expressed in terms of feet per second, is less than 3,300 feet per second.
Detonation, on the other hand is an almost instantaneous combustion of an explosive accompanied by high temperature-pressure wave formation. The rate of a detonation is supersonic, or above the speed of sound. Again, in other terms the rate is above 3,300 feet per second and up o 29,000 feet per second (20,300 miles per hour).
In either case the rate is extremely rapid and the difference is almost impossible to distinguish by only using our senses. It is important to realize that both classifications of explosions can be deadly, and that one is not less dangerous than the other. Also note that a detonation is the only one that will produce a true shock wave as the result of the explosion.
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....Didya know that the coffee creamer in MRE's burns with about the same intensity as gunpowder?? lol (no joke. Probably not as good as gunpoweder but we used to think up all sorts of wickid pyromaniacle things to do with it out in the field) :D
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and the gel hand sanitiser found in porta-potties burns like sterno, very handy for making an improvised heater when working in nasty winter weather
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Yea... it'll burn.
I'll never forget the "smell" of c4. It smells of "purple". Its a wierd thing.
xBAT
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
and the gel hand sanitiser found in porta-potties burns like sterno, very handy for making an improvised heater when working in nasty winter weather
Porta-potties burn well too....
xBAT
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it's hard to imagine anything that would smell as bad as a burning porta-pottie. that would be horible- plastic, waste, and whatever the hell that blue stuff is
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One of the larger detonations (accidental) in the history of the USA. This happened at Medina AFB (now Medina annex of Lackland AFB) in 1963. Very fortunate photograph. The explosion broke windows as far away as 30 miles. the doors of the igloo (munitions storage facility) were found 2 miles away. This is significant because these doors are 6 inch thick steel (10 feet high, 5 ft wide) and weigh several thousand pounds.
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Originally posted by -ammo-
hmm, I recieved 3 years of training on the care, maintenance and use of explosives and never heard that.
Be advised that firewood would be a better substitute for fuel for your campfre or your stove. That is by chance that you had spare TNT laying around. Dont let the police or FBI know you have it. If you happen to have a license, then better to use it for what it was intended.
I served 2 years in the Soviet Army in the early 80s. As it commonly happened I received no traning in explosives and most other fields that I actually had to use in practice. Live and learn.
When you are freezing your bellybutton off in the mountains above the treeline or in some other such G-d forsaken barren place, the TNT melted from the scavenged or unexploded ammo or from the ground mines may be the only fuel available. Of course some ammo uses other stuff then TNT or TNT mixed with something else - so you better let someone else experiment with that.
TNT easily ignited by a match and burned evenly. I have never heard it detonate in such use.
Alternatively we burned the "gun powder" from the cannon shells - it looks like yellow spahetti and burns slowly (if lit in open space).
Tumor: Didya know that the coffee creamer in MRE's burns with about the same intensity as gunpowder?
Gunpowder and high explosives are much inferior to plain coal if you compare energy content/density. The issue is how rapidly that energy can be released.
miko
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better you than me lighting TNT for fuel miko:D Of course that would be a much more tolerable death than freezing.
Your post makes me appreciate much my organization. I havent been in a position where I would have to use an alternative fuel like a Hi Explosive:) We had blankets and heaters and such items when i was deployed.
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Compression make the nasty black stuff go BOOM. No container..it just make neato sparklies.
xBAT