Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Hangtime on April 22, 2001, 11:48:00 PM
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Do you guys find the AH P51B seems somwhat.... off?
It's probable my expectations for a plane with better accel, climb, and turn than the D model were shaded by extravagant optimisim.. but it seems to me the AH B model flies worse than a D with even weaker guns.. even the AH D model with 4 guns seems better than a B model.
But then again, maybe I'm fediddlein nuts. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
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unfortunately they decided to make it some sort of high alt p51b with terrible deck speed and best top speed at 30k.
it is still fun to fly and looks very cool but it bleeds e terribly and is a lame duck at low altitude.
it behaves more like what I think a mustang should though so its the only one i fly.
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I recall Pyro mentioning it was faster than a D up high.. but who runs at 30k in this sim? (shaddap fishu)
[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 04-23-2001).]
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(http://www.hitechcreations.com/images/charts/p51bspeed.gif)
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/images/charts/p51dspeed.gif)
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The only time I take a P51 D or B, I become a serial killer. I think it's because I'm used to the heavy P47-D30, so the P51 feels ligher in turnfight. It's acceleration is incredible too. But then again, I'm used to the P47, so no wonder.
On a side note, last TOD, on my only P51B flight I got 4 D9's and 1 C47 in one run. All D9's came in higher but after some rolling scisors I could end up and stay in their 6. I could followed one who was trying to flee and shot him down (finally wohoo).
And this B with his white stribe looks great (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) ... soon a P47M with invas stripes. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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I fly the 51b pretty much exclusively and generally don't break 15k unless I'm headed into an area that I know has high cons, and I'd say most of my kills are below 5k. The only planes I worry about turning with are Zekes, Spits & Nikis, & maybe the F6F. The rest are usually toast after I finish whittling away their aircraft with my little guns (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
SOB
[This message has been edited by SOB (edited 04-23-2001).]
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FYI
I tend to not like the B model but primarily because I've noticed it studders (graphics halt momentarily) in a furball and generally tends to have slightly lower fps than other types. Has anyone else noticed this? ?????
But now that I've read this, I have to agree that I've been disappointed the few times I've taken up the B. Now I know why.
delta
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Can't believe people are complaining about this plane. What a great ride. Sheesh. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I love the p51B - it's my favourite AH plane. I have noticed that it seems to handle a bit differently from the 'D', but not that it is any slower in a practical sense. The guns seem strong enough (except versus buffs). I'm pretty sure that the camouflage makes a difference - or people don't afford the 'B' much respect - because I'm able to get tracking 6 shots rather more frequently than in other craft. I feel that there is less elevator authority in the 'B'- but I've also noticed in both 51s a tendency to 'snake' and lose some lateral stability at high speeds - a tendency which I don't recall in earlier revisions. I notice a difference in the amount of fuel carried - slightly shorter legs on the 'B' I think.
I especially appreciate having a dedicated p51B cockpit/canopy in AH, instead of the substitute p40 cockpit they had in WB (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif).
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Hehe, one thing the P51B does like nothing else is kill all P51D's dead (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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SageFIN
"It´s your god.
They´re your rules.
You go to hell."
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P51B is great IMO, yesterday, we did a fighter sweep over A39, ran into a pack of higher P51B enemy...was a great time!(Until the guy I was on ran to ack, then came back out, shot me down! hehe!)
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Originally posted by Hangtime:
I recall Pyro mentioning it was faster than a D up high.. but who runs at 30k in this sim? (shaddap fishu)
Ha, trying to hint something?
190 or 109 doesnt even fly at 30k, hardly acts like rocks.
Phew, 190A8 cant even race with B17 that high.
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I dunno, I was trying to help the guys at furball island last night in a FW190F8 (first time flying it, and Im a bomber dweeb...I shot down 7 guys! I likey this airplane!)...I was awed at how the P51B was out turning everything down low.
Perhaps it was a really good pilot (lots of them here)...but I was chasing F4s and hanging in there, but I couldnt hang with the P51B. Lil bastid got me twice (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) So the claims that the thing sucks low isnt entirely accurate, and was witnessed twice from a chute (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Paul J. Busiere
Aces High Arena handle: BD5Pilot
http://bd5.checksix.net (http://bd5.checksix.net)
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)
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P-51B with 6 M8 tubes and 2 250lbers = fun fun fun.
Wish the 6 view wasn't so obstructed...about the only bad thing about it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I really like the 51B...I've had more success in it than the 51D. It's a scrappy plane, has got some speed on it but still fights hard to get me outta my all too frequent jams down low.
Hornet
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Must be me then. Thanks fer the input!
<S!>
Hang
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Sounds like all that time on the boat is messing with your head Hang. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) So have you kicked the cat overboard yet?
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My initial reactions were similar Hang, but I just chalked it up to having greater/different expectations. (Was really hopin for the 51B-15) It's still a fun ride but I honestly don't see anything that the B can do that the 4 gun D can't do just as well and the D has more ammo. That being said I still like the B more just because I like the early model U.S. planes more can't wait for that razorback P47 either (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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1. Loaded with 75% fuel, the P-51B WEP climbrate is about 200fpm BELOW what the official chart shows. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
2. Even taking the above into account, the B still outclimbs the D between 10-18k and above 21k. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
3. According to the charts, the B is faster than the D between 13-19k(10mph+ at 16k) and above 26k(20mph+ at 29k).
Hopefully there will one day be a RAF Mustang Mk III in AH - which as well as having better visibility(Malcolm hood) than the standard B/C, it should also have the V-1650-7 engine as per the B-15/C-5 and P-51D/K. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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As a self-confessed Mustang Dweeb i fly both the B and D models.
They both seem to be almost equal in kill performace with the D being slightly better due to its guns.
Tour 15 so far:
B Pony = 29:3 => ~9.9:1
D Pony = 25:2 => ~12.5:1
I notice the B seems to be slightly slower than D at most alts. Which is a shame, the B/C should be slightly faster. Accel seems roughly the same, turn maybe marginally better in the B. The B is still fun to fly cause it feels right, it feels like the tru-skool mustang pilots ride (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Spat.
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I tried the b again last night.. Zig kicked my butt flyin a P38.. I came back with a D and caught him in a 109.. turned the tables.
I guess I just like that big, flashy, heavy and trashy Supa-D. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Hang
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Hangtime,
I have theory. The extra coats of paint make her heavy, and the overspray of the paint has clogged the gun barrels. At least my B has that affliction. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
wizzer
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If they gave it a hood, doubled the tracer load, made it perform the way the thinner winged pony SHOULD at low altitude then maybe it'd be a little closer to what I hoped for... still the AH B is a nice bird and the AH B is a damn sight better than the WB's one was at first.. but this one's still lacking the performance boost at low alt.
Oh well.. we got what.. 4 109's and 4 FW's.. maybe we'll get a few more pony variants sometime soon. I'd like to try 'em all. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I know I'm hoarding my perkies for the H.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Hang
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LOL Hang, just tell me the next time you want me to be the set up man.
wizzer
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What makes you think the P-51B should perform better at low altitude? It's V-1650-3 engine makes about 140HP less than the P-51D's V-1650-7 below 10k...
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I,ve tangled with a few b's in the D.
You just bleed thier "E" and they in trouble.
I don't think it is like what we it expected it to be.
Sax
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Well Juzz, the -3 engine, while not uncommon among early B models was replaced by the -7 well before the end of the B's production run. Further, the -7 was in all C models.
Now while the -3 was arguably a better engine at high alt than the -7, it should be noted the B/C was a better PLANE in most respects than the D model by all accounts.
After the Mustang III aircraft had been delivered to England, the RAF decided that the hinged cockpit canopy offered too poor a view for European operations. A fairly major modification was made in which the original framed hinged hood was replaced by a bulged Perspex frameless canopy that slid to the rear on rails. This canopy gave the pilot much more room and the huge goldfish bowl afforded a good view almost straight down or directly to the rear. This hood was manufactured and fitted by the British corporation R. Malcolm & Co., and came to be known as the "Malcolm Hood". This hood was fitted to most RAF Mustang IIIs, and many USAAF Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-51B/C fighters received this modification as well...[/b]
...However, many pilots regarded the Malcolm-hooded P-51B/C as the best Mustang of the entire series. It was lighter, faster, and had crisper handling than the later bubble-hooded P-51D and actually had a better all-round view. Its primary weakness, however, was in its armament--only four rather than six guns, which often proved prone to jamming. Some of the modifications applied to the P-51D to improve the ammunition feed were later retrofitted into P-51B/Cs, which made their guns less prone to jamming. With modified guns and a Malcolm hood, the P-51B/C was arguably a better fighter than the P-51D, with better visibility, lower weight, and without the structural problems which afflicted the D. Its departure characteristics were also more benign. (j bauger)
This is the plane I expected. It's unfortunately not what we got. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) The one we got has no discernable advantage in handling, has no noticeable edge in accel, seems to miss the numbers on climb and speed, has no hood and falls apart just like the D does when hit.
Now, in HTC's defense, the IS a pretty good early model B... (except for the benign handling and durability) but it ain't the plane of legend. Maybe next time out we'll get a P51C or Mustang III.
Specification of P-51C-10-NT:
One 1695 hp Packard Merlin V-1650-7 twelve cylinder Vee liquid-cooled engine. Maximum speed was 395 mph at 5000 feet, 417 mph at 10,000 feet, 426 mph at 20,000 feet, 439 mph at 25,000 feet, 435 mph at 30,000 feet.
... but thanks for asking Juzz. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
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How about a P51B - or Mustang III like those used by 268 Squadron RAF? They were a low level photo reconnaissance squadron and some planes had the engines de-rated for peak performance at around 4k feet. They were armed, according to a local author and RCAF veteran R.G.Brown in his book 'On The Edge', with four 20mm Hispano cannons! As he engaged in a number of encounters with 190s, and strafing missions, I guess we can believe he knew what he was firing. Can you imagine the furor that a 4x20mm p51b would cause in the MA??? According to him the planes were definitely faster than our AH p51b, but again, they were tweaked for low level photo and ground attack intrusions. I recommend the book by the way, ISBN 1-896182-87-9, General Store Publishing House.
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My own experience with the AH P-51B suggests the opposite of what Hangtime seems to experience.
I can tell no noticible difference in firepower between the 4-gun B and the 6-gun D; both gunsets are adequate but not incredible.
For me at least, the B is MUCH more capable than a D in a dogfight. I think it handles a LOT better than the D.
The "D" seems a little faster and climbs a hair better. I have yet to be involved in a combat where this slight difference actually mattered. The main advantage of the "D" is visibility.
These two planes are almost all I fly. I'll grab a "B" for base defece and low-level fighting where its camo might be an advantage, and I'll take a "D" for just flying around the arena killing what I can.
The "B" is about what I expected; in fact it's a little better.
J_A_B
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Now I could be wrong... I'm just reporting my impressions based on limited experience in the B and I'm comparing that to my not-so limited experince with the D.
Since I ain't got a clue on how to proceed to an accurate and verifiable test program with the two planes, I must remain at the mercy of my lousy impressions.. which could easily be much jaundiced by just the poor view.. not being able to evaluate the other guys e state could very well be because I can't correctly evaluate my own...
I dunno, I wanna be wrong! Anbody got any test data?
Hang
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hangtime
the p51b we have now uses teh same engine as the aces high spitfire F.ix
you will often see the rafwobbles whining for a lf.ix, well that one is using the p51 d engine, tahts why you see the difference in performance..
just like between the spitfires, the b should be slower and worse climbing than the d below 10k, but between 10-20k it whoops some d stang butt (just like the f.ix would whoop some lf.ix butt in that same alt range..)
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It seems obvious that HTC used the earlier engine in order to make the P-51B significantly different from the P-51D. If you think about it, this should make P-51B vs P-51D fights more interesting since the performance advantage changes with altitude.
Hangtime; there were 350 P-51C-1-NT produced which had the V-1650-3. Out of the total 3738 P-51B/C produced, around 40% had the -3 engine, so it was quite common. I think the ultimate argument though, is that the P-51B as depicted in AH is Don Gentile's "Shangri-La" - s/n 44-6913, a P-51B-5-NA(It may well have had a Malcolm hood fitted though, anyone know?).
Looks like you may have to wear roundels in order to fly the Mustang you expected. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)