Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BotaBing on May 10, 2002, 02:31:39 PM
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Just upped my first Spit XIV ~
Other than being a little bit faster than the Spit IX, and seemingly not even as stable a turner, I can't possibly imagine why I would ever spend another 60 points on it.
The idea that you are identified as "Spit14" i.e., "Come shoot me kids" is also pretty disturbing.
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So dont fly it.
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* It almost turns with a Spit9 though the torque is immense(which is the way it should be!)
* It is one of the fastest planes in the set excluding jet planes
* 50 calibur + Hispanos, great armaments
* climbs better than the 109s
* dives fast with tremendous elavator authority
* roll speed is mild, but good through all speeds
* accelerates like a greased pig on fire
* out turns literally everything faster than itself at sea level
* out runs, and by a great great margin, everything that turns better than itself at sea level
* excellent high alt performance
...
expensive it is, but while all late war planes are perked to this criteria, it's worth every penny. Fly it pretending it is a Bf109G-10 that turns almost as good as Spit9 and has no compression issues, it's a helluva plane - literally.
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Just check Spit XIV k/d, and you will understand why it shall be cheaper.
If it had not perk plane icon, it would be fine. I got it up several time, and I though it is remarkable plane, it is still far from its price. It shall be reasonably cheaper, like 30 perks.
Fariz
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remove the perkplane icon on all perked planes exept the 262 and they can have the perk points they now have .
or lower the cost for all but the 262.
airguard
(who cannot log into the main arena for the third day on a row)
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Kweassa,
What do you mean by:
expensive it is, but while all late war planes are perked to this criteria, it's worth every penny.
It seems that you are saying that all late war aircraft are perked to this level.
Perhaps you forgot about the P-51D, La-7, Bf109G-10, Fw190D-9 and N1K2. All of which entered service after the Spitfire Mk XIV and all of which are absolutely free, as they should be. The Spitfire Mk XIV is perked, as it should be, it simply isn't worth its price.
You are right that it can outrun anything it can't out turn and can out turn anything that it can't out run. Too bad for the Spitfire Mk XIV that it almost never sees such solo fights, it is almost always engaged with a mix of aircraft, some of which out turn it and some of which outrun it bun none that do both. Doesn't make a difference, a Spit14 below 10K is a dead Spit14, unless the Spit pilot is outstanding or his attackers suck.
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"Spit14 below 10K is a dead Spit14"
Farewell to reality, eh Karnak? :)
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Karnak,
Sorry for the confusion. I was just comparing the Spit14 with the few late war planes that are perked with high points. Compared with the two planes that are perked simular to that level - the F4U-4 and the Tempest V - as a pure fighter Spit14 just shines out.
I do agree it is too expensive though, even the F4U-4 and the Tempest, too. But if they are perked in 50~60 range, there's no other choice to perk the Spit14 in that range as well. <- this is what I really meant.
Oh, and yes, I do think the P-51D, 190D-9, La-7 and 109G-10 needs a perk, too.
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GRUNHERZ,
Nope, not at all.
I suggest you actually look at reality. With the Spit14 icon a gang bang formed of aircraft that can either out run or out turn the Spit14 usually forms and pretty much ensures the Spit14's death. It also doesn't have the fuel to play footsie at 25-30k like the 20 point Ta152H-1 either. The Spit14 has the worst K/D ratio of any perk fighter, and I don't think that is simply due to people accidently using it for base defense.
Kweassa,
I don't think it is finacially possible for HTC to perk the P-51D. To many of their subscribers would quit if it were perked.
I don't think that any of the aircraft you mentioned should be perked. I just think the Spitfire Mk XIV should be cheaper, 20-30ish.
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Karnak the Spit XIV has such bad KD because all the spit idiots fly it like a Spit IX or Spit V. The Spit XIV is a boom and zoom plane most like a Bf109G10, which is nearly impossible to get killed in if you wanna fly to live.
But you spittie boys just wanna turn and turn and turn, watermelon look at that the leader of this whine complained about:
"and seemingly not even as stable a turner"
C'mon if that doesn't explain it's poor K/D i dont know what does.
Basically most Spitfire users in AH don't know how to fly. :)
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At 60 points, how would I know how it flies.
There is no way I can learn in actual combat since it takes so damn many points to even get one.
For those of us who were not playing when the perks were free, we are at a serious disadvantage in that department.
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Perks were never free, where do you get that idea?
PS fly a Bf109G6 or Fw190A5 or c205 to load up on perks, kill a niki or two maybe a spit of some kind and you have 15.00 perks.
No wonder you have few fighter perks, none can be earned in a PzIV or Ostwind. :)
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How long have you been playing here? I took a long break, but last time I was playing, there was no such thing as a "perk" and I used to fly the F4U-1C all the time. It was free, and its now a perk.
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Since tour 7. So about 21 months give or take a week. :)
It seems that you meant "perks were free" as in when perk planes might have been free, well they never were- hence the term perk plane. I took it to mean perk points not planes.
Still you will never earn fighter perk points by just playing the tanks and ostwind. Which is fine if you like ground combat so much but then dont complain about perk plane cost. :)
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F4U-1C is a perk plane, correct?
Before there was such a thing as "perk" planes, I used to fly the F4U-1C frequently. It was free, it didnt cost anything to fly it.
It is a perk plane, it used to be free.
I dont know how much more clear it can get.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Still you will never earn fighter perk points by just playing the tanks and ostwind. Which is fine if you like ground combat so much but then dont complain about perk plane cost. :)
=========STATS=========
BotaBing Tour 28 5-01-02 thru 5-31-02
Model Type Kills In
A6M5b 1
F4U-1C 3
F4U-1D 41
F6F-5 3
N1K2 77
P-38L 7
P-51D 7
Spitfire Mk IX 48
Typhoon IB 1
Yak-9U 1
===========================
I've got about 189 kills in 10 different fighters so far this tour.
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For those of us who were not playing when the perks were free, we are at a serious disadvantage in that department.
Well, since you're talking about the Spit XIV, you aren't at a disadvantage. It was never free. In fact, the only plane that was, as you mentioned, was the F4U-1C. And actually, it was free well into the period when we had perked aircraft.
If you do want to get a feel for a perk plane, fly it offline. The flight model is the same offline, and they don't charge you to fly 'em there. I promise.
SOB
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Yes, ive tried it offline. But, I find it hard to get the same combat experience when not flying in the main arena.
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GRUNHERZ,
Yes, the Spit XIV needs to be flown exclusively as a BnZ fighter.
Why?
Because of that cursed icon, not due to a lack of ability of the Spit XIV.
If the Bf109G-10 was iconed and displayed as a Spit XIV on other people's systems for a day, its K/D ratio would plummet.
The reason the Bf109G-10 is able to use those tactics and survive is because it doesn't generate a whole crowd that is fixated solely on killing it.
There is no need to resort to arrogant and self congratulatory ideas about the players who fly the Bf109G-10 being vastly better than the players who fly the Spit XIV.
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Originally posted by Karnak
There is no need to resort to arrogant and self congratulatory ideas about the players who fly the Bf109G-10 being vastly better than the players who fly the Spit XIV. [/B]
Sure there would be a need If I said such a thing ,which I did not , simply because it's fun. All I said was that most spittie pilots cant fly well. You added the Bf109 superiority pilot thing, not me.
Nontheless thanks we appreciate your support. :)
All kidding aside the Spit XIV is the best all around fighter in the game as it can easily kick bellybutton at all alts using its speed, climb, acceleration and if need be pretty damn good turning.
Stop whining! :D
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One thing is sure in this game. A perk icon turns even the most conservative shot into a wild spray'n'pray dweeb. Don't believe it ? Fly a 262 for one sortie. It will be like you meet total newbies - all going HO at you, diving from 20k to the deck, spraying from 2k etc etc. I even somehow perversely enjoy it ;).
Spit XIV is a remarkable plane who would surely do better without the perk icon. BUT, so would the Ta152 ! Or Ar234 !
If I am in 190A-8 and see couple of Spit-iconed whirling dervishes down on the deck, I will check for other cons before I start my BnZ.
If There is a Spit XIV icon among them down low, you bet it is gonna be my first target and I will take more chances. Same for Ta152 or any other perk plane.
The only perk plane this rule doesn't apply to is the C-Hog. You can fly that dweeb-mobile and be safe from perk gangbangs.
IMO, there is no doubt that perk icon hurts the SpitXIV. IMO, it should not have been perked at all. Not unless P51D, La7 and Dora are perked too.
I saw a Spit XIV flown very conservatively vs 3 D-9s, He had alt advantage and never lost it. However, his score vs us was nil. Eventually, someone got him. He died only to his mistake or maybe frustration - he could always get out if he wanted. On the other hand, I saw SpitXIVs flown without survival in mind - well, they died.
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Botabing,
Yes, you have kills in 10 different fighters, but look at the fighters you have kills in:
N1K2 77 kills: This is the worst perk getter of AH. With its ENY of 10, if you shoot down a Mossie or C.205 you get a whopping .25 points. Conversely, if you're in a Mossie, C.205 or any other aircraft with a 40 ENY, you get 4 points for shooting down the N1K2. That is 16 times as many perk points.
The Spit IX is just as bad as the N1K2. The F4U-1D ain't much better.
You need to fly aircraft with high ENY values. Try things like Bf109F-4s, Bf109G-2s, F4U-1s, Hurricane Mk IICs, Mosquito Mk VIs, P-47D-11s, C.205s, Ki-61s, La-5FNs, P-51Bs, Fw190A-5s and Yak-9Ts. I think that you'll find at least a few aircraft that you like in there, all of those are pretty easy to use, and your perk points will climb much, much, much faster.
Try them out, they're not that much harder to be successful in than the N1K2, Spitfire Mk IX and F4U-1D.
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The problem isnt the cost, The cost is fine. The problem with the f4u4, spit14, etc is that it turns you into a giant KILL ME sign. As things stand, outside of the 262, the f4u-1C is the only perk plane really worth using, because it wont turn you into a bullseye. Sure you can use this to your advantage, but it basicly rules out fighting like normal with everyone trying to get YOU. How can you tell a spit9 from a spit14 5000 yards out anyways?
Crazy idea,
What would happen if all but the early war planes were perked? Not heavily perked, but 1-10 perks, depending on when they entered service, and how many. Enough that it wouldnt be too hard to earn back the perks during the sortie, but enough that you couldnt constantly suicide...
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Been brought up before, it'll never happen in the MA. Too many people enjoy flying one particular plane. It has happened like that in the CT before, not a real big deal. Basically what you see is everyone flying the 'best' free plane. For instance, in a 'tour' where it is Brits and Germans, and the Spit IX is perked but the Spit V and I are free, you will see 99% Spit Vs and 1% Spit I's. On the other side, where say the 109G2, F4, and E4 and 190A5 are free, you will see mostly 109G2s and 190A5s.
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Grunherz u seem hell bent on the idea that people don't know how to fly the spit14. Being 60 perks most "spit dweebs" wont ever afford one because of the spit9's extremely low ENY- therefor your theory goes right out the window.
The people that can fly one are the people with perks, therefor they must be half decent with a stick. The spit14 just isn't fast enough to survive in the MA- unless you go to 27k where the only plane you'll find is the odd lancaster every couple of sorties.
The spit14 should either have it's perk cost lowered or it's icon changed to a normal spit icon, or preferablly both. :D I've only flown the spit14 a few times and i'm 6:3 in total- it's just not possible to fly a spit14 with the neon "spit14 please gangme" icon.
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The perk for the spit 14 had been just fine if it wasnt for the "get me" tag it has.
I have a 9-1 kill/death and the one death i have is from a lame la7 that dived from 12 k to shoot me down when i landed at a base with all ack up. He dived down and got me just as i hit the brakes, but he also died in the attempt. ( I did not land at a vulched base it was only him and me + 4 friendlys 2 of them was b17`s that just had taken off lol, and ofcourse he wanted the spit14 hehe)
This is plain stupid cause he would never done that othewise the stupid spit14 tag.
airguard
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Speaking of perks,,,,
A good way to get them is by flying the 109F. Just stay away from spits and nikis, and you are nicely on par with the rest. While being slower, it does not show so well with your "109" icon. Its a delightful plane, think of it as a spit in a 109 disguise. So, many planes will try to turn with you, (mustangs, F6F's, F4u's, 109's etc) and when they find out that you can out-turn them, it is too late. BOOM and a lotta perks :D
For base scrambles, the Hurricane is good, the IIC can just HO anything, and turns like a swine on fire.
I would sincerely vote for the Spit14 getting just the Spit icon, and being a wee bit cheaper though. It was namely flown like a Spit in real life anyway.
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It is easy perked planes need to have a normal icon name to avoid general gangbang or fox hunt:
Tempest =Tyffi
Spit XIV= Spit
F4U4=F4U
Ta152 = 190
P-51D, La7, Fw190 D9, Bf109 G10 & niki need to be perked as F4UC-1 between 1-10 perks.
Ummmmm Lancaster and B17 maybe perked too (1-10 perks). Bombers pilots can employ lots different buff but they allways in 2 or 3 (Lancaster,B17 or B26), I can only see Ju's, TBM's or Ki's when they employing torpedoes. They have a lot of perks to expend.
Flak and Panzers maybe perked (1-5 perks), employ M8 or M16 as free choices.
Reduce Spit XIV perks??? YOU ARE ALL CRAZY!!! Spit XIV is a killing machine. F4U4 is near P51D with more ammo and armour and it cost 50 perks. Why Spit may cost less? only because more planes were built.
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Keep the perk tags. Learn to fly. :D
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Originally posted by Virage
Keep the perk tags. Learn to fly. :D
hehe look at my last post here that has nothing with flying to do :D
but got somthing with tags to do lol
airguard
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I think the Spit 14 is overpriced, but hey the only perk plane priced within reason is the C Hog.
The perk systems function is to keep planes from dominating the arena correct? Well the C Hog did dominate the arena and perking it at a mere 7 points pretty well solved that problem...why are these other fighters perked *SO* much higher than it? :confused:
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The chog is only an effective perk plane because it doesnt turn you into a KILL ME sign. It has nothing to do with the cost, everything to do with not wanting to get gangraped.
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Hmm i dont really have to add much to this discussion. If I want to feel good and burn some perks I fly Ta-152, Tempest od 262. So far took Spit14 on 1 sortie... The day it was introduced... Discoed just before I exited the plane on runway after landing :D Oh well I lost more points on 262s 'hanged' on trees at the end of runway and I dont really care for perks much since I have plenty. Im trying the LW side of metal a bit these days so as perkride I fly Ta-152. Last tour I had quite nice 10:1 K/D in it and I can't really say that the 'gangbang tag' makes me worry... If you engage low con while you are close to higher con and that one dives on you and kills you well, its all just YOUR fault so dont whine! If I see any plane that gets slow I engage -> its easy and almost free kill.... Its not my fault that the Spit, La7, NIK or any other dweeb is trying to hang on the prop while following some D9 or Tempest into a loop and gets out of E... Jesus how I love such kills... they are just hanging there in midair... stable, not moving.... dead! :p And then you can see the spitdrivers whine on ch. 1 about how unfair it is to kill Spitfire with Ta-152 :rolleyes: :D Well If I could I would send the enemy guy a check 6 but Im affraid the kill would just become even more humiliating.... So far I had 3 fights against Spit 14. In tempest - he passed 3k above me and didnt engage me!!! :eek: then he was going back coalt so I killed him. In G6 - I noticed low spit 14 turning on deck and killing friendlies almost 'at will' but before I managed to dive at him he augered :rolleyes: (dont know if he lost the plane or he was damaged). In c.202 - Ilooked up and there was spit 14 diving on me... sudenly - no warning... I still dont know how he got there :) I almost broke my joystick to do some evasive but it worked. He wasted his E and I managet to get advantage. Unfortunately he was wise enough to realize that and he 'extended' then came 2 high Mustangs and started to flex their muscles at my poor 202 but none of them managed to even ping me (lammers). Meanwhile the Spit 14 crawled back and he tried to pick me. Fortunately those P51s tourists extended away to find some more easy and more perk rewarding kill so I was alone with the 14 again. I managed to light him up quite well with the 202 guns (not much ammo left - already had 3 kills on that sortie) but he was not showing any damage. Then he managed to get angle on me (it means: I screwed it up and let him hit me!) and with single ping he killed my engine (you know 1 ping and - Radiator, Engine and Oil out...) so I went nose down and glide landed on home field... But it was a good fight...
Personaly I think the 14 is one of the best planes we have in the planeset and the reason why it has so poor K/D is that its being flown by lot of ppl who dont know much about how the plane (the 14) should be flown...
Just my $0.02
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Originally posted by Innominate
The chog is only an effective perk plane because it doesnt turn you into a KILL ME sign. It has nothing to do with the cost, everything to do with not wanting to get gangraped.
Hmm the blue nose and those 4 ugly fingers sticking out of the wing... I don't need no stinking tag to recognize this dweebs mobile. :D
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Botabing I was there when you first upped the XIV.. not long after that you announced you were fighting an a6m in a turnfight. We all were really surprised when it turned out he outturned you and shot you down. Really.
Botabing: Training arena and h2h arenas are available for practising any perk plane at any given time. I suggest you try that next time.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Botabing I was there when you first upped the XIV.. not long after that you announced you were fighting an a6m in a turnfight. We all were really surprised when it turned out he outturned you and shot you down. Really.
Perk the Zero !!
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Botabing, sorry but flying the Niki and the Spit IX are not going to train you at all for a Spit XIV or any other perk plane. Fly planes like the G10, the Yak-9U, or the P-51 even to train for the XIV. But if you get in a Spit XIV and try to turn and burn, your gonna die, perk icon or not.
The people that can fly one are the people with perks, therefor they must be half decent with a stick. The spit14 just isn't fast enough to survive in the MA- unless you go to 27k where the only plane you'll find is the odd lancaster every couple of sorties.
Oh bullpuckey ! Just because you have perks, means you've put in alot of sorties, not necessarily that your good. Like Grunherz said, if your the typical Niki or Spit pilot, your not likely to be "good" in a Spit XIV. You just fly the wrong style to get into fights and live to tell about. Turnfighting is fun, but it gets you killed. And in perks its all about landing at the end of the sortie, not "I got 3 kills and then died in a turnfight at 100ft off the deck at stall speed". If you want to be good in the XIV, learn to E fight.
And the Spit XIV just isn't fast enough???? Are you slightly daft, or you just haven't read the speed charts? Except for jets, the Spit XIV is tied for the fastest fighter below 20k (451 mph) . Its very fast between 10k-20k where there is PLENTY of combat in the game.
All kidding aside the Spit XIV is the best all around fighter in the game as it can easily kick bellybutton at all alts using its speed, climb, acceleration and if need be pretty damn good turning
Yup, it pains me to say it ;) But I agree with Grunherz again. (Write this down, it won't happen in this millenium again, agreeing with Grun twice in one thread :p )
As I've said before.
Perk Icons are here to stay. Live with it. Accept it. And stop whinning about it. Its the price (some would say pennance) you pay for flying a plane with such a large performance advantage
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Karnak the Spit XIV has such bad KD because all the spit idiots fly it like a Spit IX or Spit V. The Spit XIV is a boom and zoom plane most like a Bf109G10, which is nearly impossible to get killed in if you wanna fly to live.
I think that this sums it up to a large extent.
I took up a SpitXIV in the TA during a Squad training night. We were practicing 2 on 1 engagements. I was the "1" for my "flight".
I thought it would be useful for my squadies to get some experience coping with the XIV. As long as I kept it fast (well over 300 mph), using its tremendous acceleration and climb, they couldn't touch it. In fact, their MkIXs would have died several times. However, when I slowed down to about 200 mph and furballed, any advantage went bye bye. At this point I was hard pressed to stay alive, much less gain any advantage. We all learned that the XIV turns better one that the other, and that all the acceleration is useless if your enemy has greater E to begin with. One on one, you may hold your own. Two on one and you are in deep bandini. If you fight it like a Mk.IX or Mk.V you will likely not survive any encounter with a better turnfighter, or a encounter with more than 1 enemy. Keep it fast, use it as it was intended and it's a world class killer. Do otherwise, and it becomes a perk eater. Below 10k, I think that I would prefer the Tempest, due to its ability to "get outta Dodge", should things go to hell. Not to mention the far greater lethality of those 4 hizookas. In fact, if I expect to be below 10k most of the time, I'd prefer the C-Hog over the SpitXIV. Why? Good speed, better damage resistance, and those 4 hizookas.
My regards,
Widewing
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*** On the SpitXIV
Verm, Widewing- I agree 100%.
My gosh, the Spit14 is an incredible plane from a performance standpoint. It's got tremendous speed and a mind-boggling rate of climb. As mentioned already- it can outrun anything that it can't turn against and out-turn anything that might be equal to its speed. On top of that you can add in it's incredible excess thrust / energy charateristics and you've got one heck of an energy fighter when you want it to be. Keep in mind energy tactics doesn't = only BnZ tactics. In short this plane rocks compared to the entire AH plane set!
The SpitXIV is untouchable if you fly it right against your opponents. You've got a plane that can be both an energy and angles fighter. I can't believe I'm hearing complaints about (a) the number of perk points it costs or (b) having the perk icon on it. Making it cheaper? Are you kidding?
Fly the plane to it's strengths. It has some incredible ones!
*** On more perk points = greater skill
Verm is right. Perk points don't necessarily equate to greater skills, but are for the general AH community more related to the number our hours online.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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Botabing wrote:
=========STATS=========
BotaBing Tour 28 5-01-02 thru 5-31-02
Model Type Kills In
A6M5b 1
F4U-1C 3
F4U-1D 41
F6F-5 3
N1K2 77
P-38L 7
P-51D 7
Spitfire Mk IX 48
Typhoon IB 1
Yak-9U 1
===========================
I've got about 189 kills in 10 different fighters so far this tour.
Where do I get a list like this?
Dano
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Originally posted by Dano
Where do I get a list like this?
Dano
http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/105score/105stats.pl