Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: LUPO on May 10, 2002, 06:44:27 PM

Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: LUPO on May 10, 2002, 06:44:27 PM
(http://lupodrive.supereva.it/multiwiew.jpg)

Engine One 1,475 hp Daimler-Benz DB 605A-1 V-12 inline liquid-cooled piston.
Dimensions:  Span: 36 ft 1 in / 11 m.
Length: 28 ft 7 3/4 in / 8.73 m.
Height: 10 ft 4 in / 3.15 m.
Wing area: 219.58 sq ft / 20.4 m2.  
Weights:  Empty: 5,732 lb / 2,600 kg.
Maximum: 7,960 lb / 3,610 kg.  
Max speed: 390.5 mph at 22,800 ft / 628.5 kph at  6,950 m
Cruise speed:  320 mph / 515 kph  
climb rate:  Time to 6,560 ft / 2,000 m: 1 min 55 sec
                              13,120 ft / 4000 m: 4 min 28 sec
                              19,685 ft / 6,000 m: 6 min 33 sec
Max dive speed 582 mph /988 kph  
Service ceiling: 37,730 ft / 11,500 m  
Range:   1600 miles / 1000 km with 3 drop tanks   (int. fuel only: 646 miles)
Armament:  

Two 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT machine guns with 350 rounds each in upper engine cowling.
One 20 mm Mauser MG 151 cannon with 150 rounds firing through propellor hub.
Two 20 mm Mauser MG 151 cannon with 200 rounds each in wings.
Up to 2,200 lb / 1,000 kg bomb or fuel tank under fuselage.
Two wing hardpoints for 353 lb / 160 kg of bombs.
Or three droptanks,  a single central 240 liter tank and two 100 liter wing tanks.  

REGGIANE RE2005 (http://members.tripod.com/cm_busc/index.htm)
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: LUPO on May 10, 2002, 06:49:41 PM
EW Bridges of 93 Squadron RAF (whose Spitfire mkVIII was shot down by a RE2005):
Quote
"I tried to shake the fighter from my tail: sharp climbing turn, split S, violent downward spyral, no way. I saw tracers running around my head all the time, felt hits several times. The aircraft was badly shoot up,  I barely managed to roll it with loose stick and bale out at low altitude"

(http://lupodrive.supereva.it/2005.jpg)
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: Citabria on May 11, 2002, 03:45:25 AM
bring the mc200!
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: Dr Zhivago on May 11, 2002, 03:59:29 AM
We need more italian planes but i prefer MC200... :)
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: EvilDingo on May 11, 2002, 05:31:08 AM
You're crazy. The Re2005 is an excellent MA competent aircraft. I've been lobbying for it for a while. I tried a bribe thread but it fell flat.

What about the Fiat G55? Another awesome italian fighter.
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: Wilbus on May 11, 2002, 05:36:13 AM
It should have been added a long time ago.
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: Dr Zhivago on May 11, 2002, 05:43:58 AM
How about adding these planes to game... :)

Fiat G.50 - italian and finnish version
Fiat G.55
Re2005

S.M.79
S.M.82
Z.1007bis
P.108 B

No biplanes at this list...:D
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: gatt on May 11, 2002, 06:13:37 AM
Hi LUPO, you never give up eh? ;) IMHO HTC wont model another Series 5 fighter (Re.2005 or G.55).
Probably they'll model a much more representative C.200, Re.2001 or a medium torpedo/bomber, like the SM79 .... but only God knows if and when :(
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: LUPO on May 11, 2002, 10:12:41 AM
Yep, gatt: I never give up! :)
I think your reply is correct, but in fact we have to understand what we want. If we are looking for an excellent MA aircraft, than we need a Series 5 fighter (and I humbly suggest the beautiful bird above).
(http://lupodrive.supereva.it/Re2005.jpg)
But if we're looking for a glamourous bird for scenarios, than we REALLY REALLY NEED (I'm agree with you) the final devlopment of the SPARVIERO: the legendary S.M.79-III.
(http://lupodrive.supereva.it/S79.jpg)
The S.M.79, predominant among Italian bombing aircraft, was an extremely efficient machine and perhaps the most succesful land based torped- bomber of the war. To the Italian nation, the Sparviero was everything that the Sptfire was to the British and Zero-sen was to the Japanese. It possessed excellent handling qualities and was favoured over all other bombers by its crews. Was active throughout the Mediterranean, the Balkans and North Africa and the Aerosiluranti achieved considerable succes, sinking carrier as H.M.S. Eagle and destroyers as Jaguar, Legion, Southwall, Husky, Kujavik, as well as other British naval vessels and cargo ships.
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: cajun on May 11, 2002, 12:24:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Dr Zhivago
How about adding these planes to game... :)

Fiat G.50 - italian and finnish version
Fiat G.55
Re2005

S.M.79
S.M.82
Z.1007bis
P.108 B

No biplanes at this list...:D


:p Add CR42 Italian biplane!:D
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: Widewing on May 11, 2002, 12:40:38 PM
You can read about the RE-2005's ancestery by going to:
RE-2000 (http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Reggiane.html)

(http://home.att.net/~historyzone/re2000_GAc.jpg)
RE-2000

(http://home.att.net/~historyzone/re2005.JPG)
RE-2005

My regards,

Widewing
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: brady on May 11, 2002, 12:58:59 PM
Cant Z 1007, and any Italian ftr would be cool by me, but I would half to say that a CR 42 or a MC 200 would rock:)
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: LUPO on May 11, 2002, 03:07:46 PM
Of course I'm agree with you, Brady! :)
(http://lupodrive.supereva.it/falco.jpg)
CR42 was a great plane and, in a way, a very special one for me.
You have to know that the youngest brother of my grandma was a biplane pilot in WWII. He died in the skies of Albania. Was shot down after he destroyed a Blenhaim.
Sometime we'have to rember that those beutiful birds that we love so much in RL were built in order to kill people. Real people. But, this is just a game. A wonderful game that can also remember about loved ones.

If interested, you can find his history here:
Nicola Magaldi, biplane pilot (http://www.dalnet.se/~surfcity/italy_magaldi.htm)

the picture above was copyright from Archivio D'amico-Valentini and found on the beautiful Hakans aviation page (http://www.dalnet.se/~surfcity/)
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: Dr Zhivago on May 12, 2002, 06:54:14 AM
:cool:
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: Kevin14 on May 12, 2002, 11:15:55 AM
We really need the Centauro, "Regarded by many as the best Italian fighter to achieve service", it had x3 20mm and x2 13mm and in some cases x5 20mm. It could also be a torpedo-bomber with one torpedo underneath the fuselage.  We really need this plane!
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: LUPO on May 12, 2002, 05:17:05 PM
Nice one, Zhivago! :)
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: udet on May 12, 2002, 07:32:40 PM
i agree with the CR biplanes, but let's face it, the role the Italians played in the war was minor,and their planes were very undistinguished in terms of performance.Actually,i think so were their pilots :) No offense meant to anybody
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: gatt on May 13, 2002, 02:06:09 AM
No offense taken Udet, but what the hell does your reply mean? This is a sim ... isnt it? That said, I'm sure there is more than one italian pilot/fighter that can kick your virtual arse in AcesHigh. So, following your weird reasoning, I dont see any problem to add more italian a/c. No offense meant to you, of course   :p ;)
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: Sikboy on May 13, 2002, 07:39:15 AM
I really like this plane, and I'd like to thank Lupo for pointing it out. Based on looks and performance, I'd love to have it. It would combine the DB 605 engine that give the LW guys a chub, with a fairly low wing loading which, as far as I know (and I'm no AN Engineer) should give it some low speed turning. I don't think it will be useless in the MA, but we'll never know until it gets out there. Anyhow have any primary source performance information on it?

-Sikboy
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: Samm on May 13, 2002, 07:55:44 AM
(http://www.highgallery.com/italy-2-ba65.jpg)
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: LUPO on May 13, 2002, 07:58:39 AM
No offense taken Udet, you're simply ridiculous :)!!!
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: LUPO on May 13, 2002, 08:00:49 AM
Follow the link, Sikboy! :)
Re2005 page (http://members.tripod.com/cm_busc/index.htm)
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: Sikboy on May 13, 2002, 08:15:02 AM
Very cool Lupo, I've been to the sight (Tripod popups and all lol :)) What I meant was, does anyone have the actual sources? You have a scan of the Comparison test as cited in a secondary source. What would totally kick bellybutton is to have a copy of the primary source itself. I would imagine that this information is on file somewhere in the Italian Archives, but I don't know anything about Italian IP or Freedom of Information law, so I wouldn't really know how to go about getting the document itself. However, if there were an Italian working on the problem, that person would have a much better chance of figuring out how to get at it, since if nothing else, he speaks the language. Then, the data could be descreetly sent to, oh, I don't know, say... a flight sim development company or something.

It's not that I'm skeptical of your work, or that of Sergio Govi. It's just that official pieces of paper are more compelling than a citation of that source in a research work.

Good luck on your crusade!

-Sikboy
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: gatt on May 13, 2002, 09:27:01 AM
Sikboy, the problem is that is very difficult if not impossible to find original flight manuals for italian fighters.
So far I've found the C.205 one with no performance data at all. Then I find the G.55 "Centauro" manual, this time with climb times to various altitudes.
I've not seen anything about the beautiful Re.2005. Just the works of Govi and Arena (the latter not considered a reliable source).
Anyway, good work and good luck LUPO, you really need it! ;)
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: Sikboy on May 13, 2002, 09:45:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by gatt
Sikboy, the problem is that is very difficult if not impossible to find original flight manuals for italian fighters.


I bet it is. But if that's the case, then it will undoubtedly be the case for HTC too. And without that information HTC won't be able to accurately model the Aircraft :(  I mean, look what happens even when they DO have access to highly detailed data. Someone will always be there to question the authenticity of a model, and I honestly don't believe that HTC would put out a model that they didn't feel was as accurate as possible, according to the data they've collected. (rah rah rah, go team!)

-Sikboy
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: Shane on May 13, 2002, 11:12:16 AM
bah!  italy was basically a non-factor in WW2, if anything, more japanese and russky planes need to be added.

Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: Sabre on May 13, 2002, 01:33:11 PM
Isn't the Re2000 the aircraft destined for the never-completed Italian aircraft carrier?  As I recall, they could carry not only bombs but a small torpedo.  The operational concept decided on for this liner-turned-carrier called for a single aircraft type to fulfill both fighter and strike duties.  This was done in tacit recognition that Italy was coming late to the carrier party; they new developing dedicated strike AND fighter aircraft for their fledgling carrier force would take too long and consume too many resources.  So they looked around and selected the Re2000 to fill their multipurpose requirement.  Since it was not selected as the Italian air force's primary fighter, the Navy got the added benefit of having priority on the Re2000.  The Italian CV never completed conversion, of course.  One account I read says it was destroyed in port by P-47 Thunderbolts.  A second ship conversion was begun I believe, but was far behind the first when Italy changed sides and put an end to both projects.
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: LUPO on May 13, 2002, 04:25:31 PM
Quote
bah! italy was basically a non-factor in WW2

Povero Shane... non ti sfioreranno mai la poesia, il coraggio e la follia di un solo CR32 contro uno squadron di spitfires o quelle di un pugno di uomini con le loro macchine dalle linee eleganti, lanciati contro masse immani di bombardieri ...
Ma a chi parlo? Questo povero disgraziato non puņ capire niente di eleganza o di stile, eh gatt... poveracci, solo arroganza e forza bruta :)
...figurati la lingua di Dante... :p
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: Thrawn on May 13, 2002, 07:07:45 PM
Beurling respected the Italians a hell of alot more then the Germans.  The Italians would fight, while the Germans would run.

Paraphrasing from "Malta: Spitfire"
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: gatt on May 14, 2002, 01:09:06 AM
What a tuff guy he was, Thrawn ;) I got an original  after war edition of "Malta Spitfire" and put that sentence in my sig, btw.

A friend of my family was shot down over Malta. From what I've heard and read in italian books Malta was a real nitemare for pilots. Much more than North Africa. Many surviving pilots dont even want to remember and speak about it.
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: palef on May 14, 2002, 02:33:07 AM
Subjectively speaking I actually find the Re. 2005 quite ugly due to awkward proportions. I find the Fiat G.55 is more to my taste, and would prefer it over the Sagittario.

I would however support any attempt to bring more Italian aircraft to AH and particularly like Dr Zhivago's list posted earlier.

palef
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: GRUNHERZ on May 14, 2002, 04:21:29 AM
I agree 100%, quite possibly one of the ugliest fighters of WW2. :( Thec205 and especially the G55 are much better looking.
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: tack on May 14, 2002, 08:54:49 AM
I need

MC200
G55
Re2005
SM79
P108

We have only two kinds of airplanes now.
Now, no strategy can be managed with the Italy army plane.
If one of these airplanes appears, we can be enjoyed from now.


RA 360a
tack
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: LUPO on May 14, 2002, 10:19:32 AM
Ugly??? grunherz, YOU're UGLY! :D
(http://lupodrive.supereva.it/2005_01.jpg)
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: brady on May 14, 2002, 11:40:34 AM
Hmm I think it's kinda cute:)

  Camt Z 1007 better than the SM 79.
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: M.C.202 on May 14, 2002, 11:59:16 PM
Tack said "I need ... P108"

Can I we have the P.108A for a weapon load out?:D

One of the last Cant bombers was a twin engine one, with much better specs than the 1007. The lion?
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: Thrawn on May 15, 2002, 12:48:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by gatt
What a tuff guy he was, Thrawn ;) I got an original  after war edition of "Malta Spitfire" and put that sentence in my sig, btw.

A friend of my family was shot down over Malta. From what I've heard and read in italian books Malta was a real nitemare for pilots. Much more than North Africa. Many surviving pilots dont even want to remember and speak about it.


I found a orginal print from 44 or 43, I don't have it handy.  Found it in a used bookstore for $20, I almost crapped myself.

No doubt about, Malta was a hellish place to fight on both sides.

PS: Never noticed your sig until now, small world.:)
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: GRUNHERZ on May 15, 2002, 02:08:47 AM
Ughh this looks terrible:

(http://home.att.net/~historyzone/re2005.JPG)


Compare that to:

 (http://www.gavs.it/immagini/foto/G55g.jpg)

And:

(http://www.gavs.it/immagini/foto/G55h.jpg)

Or:

(http://www.amivirtual.com/images/g55bonet.jpg)

The G55 looks better!
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: Mitsu on May 15, 2002, 02:20:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SUPERFLY


Sorry.  Waste of time.  No more additions or improvements to AH.


:p
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: brady on May 15, 2002, 02:44:52 AM
I realy think the Cant 1007 would be a great adation for Italy.
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: tack on May 15, 2002, 08:41:54 AM
Although my performance is also important, I also regard
intensity as important. All empty will be filled with spit,
 nik, and la7 if it asks only for a performance.:D

I want the AC of Italy anyhow.;)
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: Dr Zhivago on May 15, 2002, 09:54:24 AM
Here we have that Z.1007, max speed was 283 mph at 13,215 ft, ceiling 26,500 ft (8100 m), range 1,242 miles (2000 km) and climb to 13215 ft in 10 min 30 sec. Plane saw action at English channel, southern Russia and in the Mediterranean (North Africa, East Africa, Balkans and Greece). Plane was entirely made from wood :eek:, about 560 were built. Z.1007 ter was improved version (three Piaggio P.XIX radial engines) and plane reached a top speed of 304 mph and a ceiling of 32,890 ft... :)

more info:CANT Z.1007 (http://www.ophetweb.nl/ww2w/ww2htmls/cantz1007.html)
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: LUPO on May 15, 2002, 11:41:36 AM
I luv RE2005, G55, blondes and brunettes ;)
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: LUPO on May 15, 2002, 11:58:44 AM
...anyway...
(http://lupodrive.supereva.it/manifest.jpg)
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on May 16, 2002, 08:41:13 AM
before we add more italian maintenance unfriendly italian air thingy's

HTC needs to add the Fokker G.1

An it's so beautiful that pinnifarini would look like an amateur

:D
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: Seeker on May 16, 2002, 12:10:31 PM
AH's American bias has to end!

More Italian planes, they're the best!!
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: LUPO on May 16, 2002, 03:53:03 PM
Sure Seeker, sure... :D

SIAI Marchetti S.M. 91

Year: 1942

first flight: 11 Marzo 1943

(http://lupodrive.supereva.it/sm91.jpg)
 
Progettista: Ing. Alessandro Marchetti

Caratteristiche: Caccia Bimotore/scorta a grande autonomia - bitrave

Equipaggio: 1 + 1

Apertura alare: 19,70 mt

Lunghezza: 13,25 mt.

Altezza: - 3,85 mt

Superficie alare: 41,76 mq.

Motore/i: 2 Daimler Benz DB 605 A-1 da 1.250 cv

Armamento (armament): 5 cannoni Mauser da 20 mm

Armamento di caduta: -500 kg

Peso massimo al decollo: kg

Velocita' massima (max speed): - 575 km/h

Autonomia operativa (operational range): 1.600 km.

Produzione: 1 esemplare MM 530 - ex cellula del S.M.88

Italians were unprepared for mass production. Workmanship and build quality was almost always of a high order, possibly too good for what were, after all, expendable war machines
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: LUPO on May 16, 2002, 04:06:30 PM
Quote
AH's American bias has to end!


Bias? I love american planes! I want more of them! I don't think somone is biased in any way here, Seeker.
Simply I'd like to have one or two italian planes modelled.
You don't like this? It's your problem.
But... yeees NOW I understand, perhaps you tried to be... ironic? LOL :D
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: Mitsu on May 16, 2002, 05:41:59 PM
Well well...indeed Italian really needs more planes.
Italian doesn't have Jabos.
Italian doesn't have Bombers.

Only Italian fighters here now, Italian can't plan even the basic invasion war in Aces High.

I think that they should be added first.

BTW I have question about Italian Jabo - C.205 could have bombs, couldn't it?
I hope that it would have them in next AH version. :)
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: gatt on May 17, 2002, 12:52:34 AM
Yep, after the end of 1943 C.202 and C.205 were used as recon and fighter/bomber. So they could carry drop tanks and bombs. But they were field modifications.
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: LUPO on May 20, 2002, 06:07:14 PM
Field modification were very popular. I'd love to have drop tanks for 202/205. Do you have any picture of that, gatt?
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: brady on May 20, 2002, 08:25:24 PM
Add one Please.......


  Err 2 I mean add 2 mre Italian Fighters and One bomber a Cant Z 1007:)
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: brady on May 20, 2002, 08:32:34 PM
Now am I reading this right? I always assumed the Cant Z 1007 could cary, aprox. four 1,102 pound bombs 2 internaly and 2 externaly at the same time, (or any of the vast combanation of bombs available to it.)
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: iwojima on May 20, 2002, 08:59:24 PM
The Z.1007bis proved to have a maximum speed of 283 mph at an altitude of 15,100 ft, a range of 1,242 miles and a maximum ceiling of 27,630 ft. The crew consisted of 5: a pilot, a co-pilot, a radio operator/gunner, a tail gunner and a gunner that operated either of the beam guns. Defensive armament consisted of 2-12.7mm machine guns in ventral and top turrets and 2-7.7mm machine guns in beam positions. The Z.1007bis had a maximum bomb load of 2,646 lbs of bombs or 2 17.7-inch torpedoes.

here some info brady that i found on the cant
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: brady on May 20, 2002, 09:14:56 PM
TY  IwoJima, my sources are not 100% clear they seam to indacate that it could cary the external stores and the internal at the same time for the larger bomb load.
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: gatt on May 21, 2002, 01:43:20 PM
(http://www.teamblau.it/iwai/pics/mc205b.jpg)

I guess it was a field modification made by a co-belligerant ground crew. Many C.205 were used for RECCE, they often had the 2x12,7mm removed.
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: LUPO on May 22, 2002, 04:18:38 AM
Nice one, Gatt! I hope we'll have options like that for the 205 in AH! It would be a great advantage in terms of fuel management...
Tks :)
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: brady on May 22, 2002, 08:12:35 AM
Cool pic.:)
Title: It's time for another italian fighter in Aces High!!!
Post by: tack on May 22, 2002, 11:18:32 AM
WTG! Gatt!
We will get DT.:)

RA 360a
tack