Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: funkedup on May 12, 2002, 03:01:32 AM

Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: funkedup on May 12, 2002, 03:01:32 AM
Seems like this card has issues with every game.  I have the latest drivers but Operation Flashpoint, Il-2, Ghost Recon, Rally Trophy, and Comanche-Hokum all have problems from sound glitches all the way up to total lockups, all attributable to the SB Live.  

I'm not looking for fixes here.  I've been through the wringer already.  These are "known bugs" for these games.  The game programmers say it is driver problems and Creative appears to have no timetable for fixing these problems.

So what are my other choices for a 5.1 card?  Is there anything out there that actually has stable drivers for Win2k that work with new games?
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: Sox62 on May 12, 2002, 03:50:54 AM
The Soundblaster Audigy,and the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz come to mind.

 I have the Santa Cruz,and it runs just fine with XP.
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: SKurj on May 12, 2002, 08:47:04 AM
hmm I've heard alotta cries about SBLive cards...

With the little list you posted Funked the only one i have a slight issue with is IL2, i get a little static over my right speaker (haven't played that injun game tho)

I've not tweaked or adjusted my SBLive, its basically set to defaults...


SKurj
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: maddog1 on May 12, 2002, 12:37:55 PM
I know a couple of us have gone to USB headset/mic with zero problems...... unless you need speakers.... well then I've allways defaulted to the Diamond monster.... never had a problem....
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: Sox62 on May 12, 2002, 01:05:24 PM
I went with the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz as it seemed that many(not all by any means)were having conflicts with the VIA chipset in their motherboards.

I don't know what motherboard Funkedup has,but it something to consider.
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: funkedup on May 12, 2002, 01:25:43 PM
I have Epox EP8-K7A.  It has a mixed AMD/VIA chipset.
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: Swoop on May 13, 2002, 12:47:01 PM
Er......what problems?   I have an SB Live 5.1 and dont have any probs with OFP or IL2......?

:confused:

Swoop
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: Sox62 on May 13, 2002, 12:55:28 PM
There have been issues between the VIA chipset and Soundblaster Live and Audigy cards.

This isn't everytime by any means,more likely it's the exception.

If you're not having problems swoop,don't sweat it.
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: funkedup on May 13, 2002, 01:07:09 PM
Looks like I'll give the Turtle Beach a whirl.
What chipset DOESN'T have problems with SB?
I'm done with Creative regardless.  Nothing but trouble with their products for the last 4 years.
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: Lephturn on May 13, 2002, 01:11:39 PM
I personally will never, EVER purchase another Creative product.  Well maybe not ever... but not for a long frigging time.  I don't really think the problem is with their hardware... that's good stuff IMO.  They don't write decent drivers/firmware.  Never have.  Their drivers are crap, period, and it causes boatloads of problems.  They don't seem to be willing to address the problems that pop up is the biggest issue.  Creative just denies it and ignores it's users.  Well that's fine, I'll be ignoring them from now on too.

VIA mobo + Live = bad.  Some can get away with no problems... but some can't.  I've got mine working for most things, but it took me a LONG time.  Huge PITA.

I'm building an upgrade system now and going with an nForce mainboard with it's good built-in audio.  (Lowest CPU utilization of any soundcard I've seen... including the Audigy)  Decent sound too.  I'll use AC97 (blech) sound before I put another CrapBlaster in a machine I build.
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: Gunthr on May 13, 2002, 02:33:15 PM
That goes for me too. I came to actually hate that piece of plastic and wire. I'm using a Philips Accoustic Edge now. I swear you can just pop open your case, toss the AE in there somewhere, and it will work with everything. Pretty good sound too.
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: Fatty on May 13, 2002, 02:40:54 PM
I like my santa cruz, got it after having the above stated problems with SB and Via.  Is nice, pretty cheap, and AC3 output gives good surround sound when I'm watching divx on the living room tv.
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: funkedup on May 13, 2002, 04:53:06 PM
Gunthr tell me more about AE.  Sounds like it's stable.  How is the 5.1 performance in games and DVDs?

Lephturn lemme know how that nForce works.  Does that support 5.1?  I know some of the Epox mobos support 5.1 with on-board sound, but only if you disable mic and line-in, which is not acceptable.

I guess the only good part of my experience with the Live 5.1 is the DVD performance.  I haven't had any problems with DVD playback at all.  I can write emails or browse the web and the movie plays just fine.

But most have games have stability and/or sound quality issues.
OFP - Uber loud footsteps.
Ghost Recon - Pausing, popping, ear splitting feedback loop
Il-2 - Distortion on right channels, center channel cuts in and out.
Rally Trophy - Total system freeze.
Comanche-Hokum - Total system freeze.
GPL - Engine sound distortion.
Those games make up 99% of my non-AH gaming time...

Like Lephturn I have figured out a lot of workarounds to make it work with each game, but having to change HW accel settings, mixer settings, speaker settings, EAX settings for every game is ricockulous.

BTW The only game I play a lot which works 100% correctly without special settings is AH.  Hats off to HTC.
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: DblTrubl on May 14, 2002, 12:50:25 AM
After having problems with the on-board audio on my old puter I got a Hercules Game Theater XP when i built my new one. Running it on an Epox 8KHA+ /w 1.4G T-Bird. It sounds fantastic and I've had zero sound-related issues. Has a game port and 2 USB ports on the external box too which is nice. AH and Il2 are the only games I have in common with you, but like I said, i've never had a prob with either...or any other app for that matter. Very pleased with this purchase.
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: Daff on May 14, 2002, 05:14:42 AM
Funked, I had exactly the same problem with GPL when I upgraded from Win98 to XP Pro with my SB Live.
I bought the SB Audigy and haven't looked back. (And the quality is awesome)

Daff
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: steely07 on May 14, 2002, 05:30:51 AM
Game theater XP,a mate has one and it does a fantastic job with no hiccups or conflicts,i've installed several and they are all running without a hitch :)
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: minus on May 14, 2002, 05:48:35 AM
now using MSI KT 333 ULTRA ARU   it haz  own 5.1 onboard hardvare  chipset and it perform same like my old SB live 5.1

before got a sh.t load problem with  266a2 series  used them 5 month and never never again   kt 333 series work damn fine for me
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: Gunthr on May 14, 2002, 07:40:21 AM
Funked, here is a review by SoundSurge: Accoustic Edge (http://www.3dsoundsurge.com/reviews/AcousticEdge/AcousticEdge.html)

The AE does 5.1 and is comparable to the Live card, except it works, heh heh. It has worked perfectly in every game I've played, under both Win98 and Win2k. It works fine in any pci slot, and no problems at all with Via chipsets. It is stable.

I use Klipsch Promedia 4.1s with it for loudspeakers. The headphone out, as on most sound cards is a bit lame. I use digital out to Cal Gamma DAC to a Total Airhead Headphone Amp, to Grado 125 phones. Sweet.
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: Skuzzy on May 14, 2002, 08:08:04 AM
Question.  Are the problems with SB products only in VIA based motherboards?

Only reason I ask, is I have never had a problem, but all my systems are Intel based.  So I would like to know if this is related to VIA only, or anyother chipset.
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: Lephturn on May 14, 2002, 08:41:03 AM
The majority of the problems are related to VIA chipsets.  There are some other REALLY stupid things to do with Creative's drivers that apply to all, but they don't cause big problems with Intel chipsets.  That's why you've never seen the problem Skuzzy.

Other really stupid things they do are, for example, not allowing you to remove DOS support in their 9x drivers.  You have to delete the damn files, because every time you load the drivers, it will re-write to the autoexec.bat and/or config.sys files to re-load the DOS drivers.

Hopefully they don't have this issue anymore with 2k/XP drivers... but I don't trust their driver team as far as I can throw them.   Also, the Live line eats CPU time for breakfast... with 3D sound turned on it can eat 30% on my machine no problem.  The new Audigy line is much better, but the nForce integrated sound is even lower CPU utilization.  I'm gonna go nForce and avoid both VIA and Creative this time.
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: Gunthr on May 14, 2002, 08:41:30 AM
The Live! sound cards have very well documented issues with Via chipsets. You will find people with Via chipsets pulling thier hair out all over the web.

I do not think these issues effect other chipsets, however.
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: straffo on May 14, 2002, 08:45:18 AM
any one knowing a sound board having REAL drivers ??

like one having the

MIXERCONTROL_CONTROLTYPE_PEAK METER

control type ?

Creative has just FUBAR drivers .... I'm wasting my time at work with this junk ...
Title: This is easy to fix.
Post by: weazel on May 14, 2002, 09:19:40 AM
Other really stupid things they do are, for example, not allowing you to remove DOS support in their 9x drivers.

To install Liveware I edited the installers ini file and removed all the crap I don't need or want.

You have to change it after the installer is executed but prior to the last prompt before it runs to completion.

I have the full directory tree with the modified ini file if you want it, this allows you to choose the Liveware options you desire instead of forcing all of them.

It was a squeak to figure out how to do it the 1st time but is easy with the hack I created. ;)
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: Masherbrum on May 14, 2002, 09:24:27 AM
I run a Soundblaster Audigy Gamer (Audigy Mp3 is the same, different software bundle) and have never had a problem.  I have a Pentium III, 800Mhz, XP Pro pc and love it.  I also looked into the Turtle, but like the Creative stuff.

Masher
Title: Re: This is easy to fix.
Post by: Lephturn on May 14, 2002, 09:47:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by weazel
[BI have the full directory tree with the modified ini file if you want it, this allows you to choose the Liveware options you desire instead of forcing all of them.

It was a squeak to figure out how to do it the 1st time but is easy with the hack I created. ;) [/B]


Cool!  At this point, I'm not touching anything since it mostly works.  I appreciate the offer though. :)  I'm selling this box and building my new one.... with no bloody SB in it.
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: funkedup on May 14, 2002, 12:24:04 PM
Lephturn, do you know if the sound daughtercard on the Asus nForce boards has discrete miniplug outputs for 5.1?
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: Lephturn on May 14, 2002, 03:10:19 PM
I think it does, yeah.

http://usa.asus.com/mb/socketa/a7n266-c/overview.htm

Even has SPDIF out.

Check at a local shop if you want to be sure it has what you want.  That's why I'm going MSI... local guy has them in stock.
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: funkedup on May 14, 2002, 04:09:40 PM
Cool. I might give it a whirl then.
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: AKSWulfe on May 17, 2002, 01:52:54 PM
Funked, I have an SB Live!... been using it for 2-3 years now.

I have no problems in RTCW, Op Flashpoint, AH or Il-2.

Make sure you disable the 16 bit emulation in the control panel (it's under Creative Misc or something like that)

Also, do you have the latest drivers? I installed a set that had the EAX2.0 demo included- this allows it to run EAX games.

You've probably already done that- the last thing is that I have a custom setup in Il-2 for the Sound Blaster Live!. I have _NO_ audio problems in the game and it sounds very good.

If you shoot me an email: weissdr1@yahoo.com

I will send you a copy (either in text or with screenshots) of the settings I use in Il-2.

It's also on a mobo driven by the VIA KT133a (686b southbridge), and although a lot of people report problems with the SB Live! I have no issues what-so-ever.

I use Win98 and DX8.1.

If you send me an email, I won't get to it until Sunday night... so I'll reply to you then.
-SW
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: Yippee38 on May 17, 2002, 02:10:23 PM
I've got the Santa Cruz.  It's a damn nice board.  My only gripe is related to the Linux drivers.  :(

I refuse to buy a CL product.  They screwed me when they bought Aureal and refused to support their products or release the source code to the Linux drivers.
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: funkedup on May 19, 2002, 11:35:13 PM
Thx SW
I'm using Win2k and DX 8.1.  Drivers are the latest and greatest.  I've been through just about every possible combination of driver/mixer/speaker settings.  
For me Il-2 has sound problems, most only center channel, if I enable 5.1.  If I use headphones or just run it in 2 speaker mode it's fine.  But Il-2 (and many other games) have flaws running in 5.1 mode, which are acknowledged by the game developers (at least in the case of OFP and Ghost Recon) as problems with Creative's drivers.  And a few other games have lockups which dissappear if I disable sound.  I'm done with SB.  It's just a question of what I'm going to replace it with.
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: AKWarp on May 22, 2002, 10:16:48 AM
I have an MSI mobo, Athlon 1.4 (266 FSB), VIA Kt266 chipset (note: NOT the KT266a), I also run an SB Audigy and I have absolutely no problems with sound at all.  I have the Cambridge soundworks speakers and use a splitter to plug my headset in.  No problems with speakers (front or rear channel) or mic useage in any game I've played.

I do have, however, problems with the built in USB ports.  I had to get a 4 port USB card in order to use my USB throttle.  This is a known bug with VIA chipsets though.  Something to do with not supplying enough power to the port for some devices.   My USB printer works fine with the built in USB, just not my throttle.

I'm getting ready to build a new box to take with me to England (I just got orders there) and I am planning on the SOYO Dragon Ultra with the KT333 chipset, AMD XP 2100 and GF4 Ti 4400 (overclockable to ti 4600 performance easily).  Although the performance gains are slight with the KT333, they are there none the less.  Every bit helps.

Besides, for the minimal price difference, might as well go with it.
Title: Sound Cards - Fed Up With SB Live 5.1
Post by: funkedup on May 25, 2002, 03:15:20 AM
Well I sold the dang puter today and am jumping on the nForce bandwagon.  :)