Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on May 13, 2002, 04:03:59 PM
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HTC can this be a new LW plane for 1.10, seeing it's focused on the early midwar 1942 timeframe. The Fw190A3 entered service in late 1941.
Please? :)
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i had thought of this my self :)
imho it would be a great idea. However i would also want an a6 or 7 then an a9. After that an a1 would be perfect. :)
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Now, when jpn got several planes, may be something need to be done with Soviet planeset? When I look at currect planeset, I doubt if USSR ever take part in a ww2.
Fariz
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190 A3 would be nice. BUt I would rather see more buffs then fighters in the next couple patches. OH and a Me-410 would be nice as well.
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A-3 would be kinda redundant. A-5 is pretty much indistinguishable from A-3 in terms of flight sim performance and effectiveness. I'd rather see an A-1. :)
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Not true funked... It would be an earlier lighter version, much like I suppose the F4U1 is to the 1D.
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But first add an another version off the P38
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pass me that bong dutchboy... we'll be puffing this thing for a long time more :( ;)
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Weight difference between A-3 and A-5 was tiny, like 25 lb when they had same armament and fuel and stores rack. Performance difference in the sim would not be noticeable, in fact I doubt it would even be measurable.
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It keeps the nerves a bit own in this unfair multy type plane world
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My understanding is the A5 had a longer nose by 150mm vs. the A3 to offset weight of equipment, electronics of some sort I believe, added in the rear fuselage to meet new requirements. The A3 did not carry this equipment and did not have the 150mm front fuselage extension, so it was noticably lighter if the equipment was so heavy as to require a 150mm front fuselage extension to correct the CG. It was an important variant in late 1941 and early 1942, since 1.10 is focusing on this period it could be included. :D
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a1 would be better :)
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It can't be that much more weight...
Here's the basic break down- the A-3 had a FuG 7a radio while the A-4 incorporated the FuG 16z... the A-5 differed from the A-4 by having lengthened engine mounts to provide increased strength and reduced vibration. The overall aircraft length increase was only 15.5cm (6.1inch) and the A-5 was indistinguishable from earlier models only by comparing the hinged upper deck machine-gun cover panel.
I don't think it weighs less by anything more than 100lbs.
-SW
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Again my understanding is that A5 had the extension to relocate the CG after additional equipment in the rear moved it too far back.
Either way I want the FW190A3 as it was very important in the early period, just like the F4U1 is to the 1D.
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I've read that too. It appears to be a combination of both strengthening and CoG... but honestly, it can't be more than 100lbs lighter than the A-5... 6.1inches? You could take a dump in the rear of a plane and have to lengthen the nose by 6.1inches.
Besides that, I wouldn't look for any European air craft being modelled in 1.10... it's an early war pacific update as near as I can tell.
While the A-3 might be neat... probably just because of an updated look, the difference between it and the A-5 in terms of manuverability and visual differences is close to 0.0000005%...
in other words, substitute the A-5 with the A-3 and you've got yourself a 100lb heavier A-3. (if even that much)
Here, found weight for the A-3: Loaded 3,977 kg
A-5 loaded: 4,000kg...
How much is 33kg in pounds? EDIT: 72.6 pounds difference.
-SW
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I just want it because its an early variant. And also because I am building a model of it now... :)
CC about the pacific update, then I think we need an early US painted P39/P400.
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It is a crucial variant of the 190 Series.
As it did in late 41 early 42 it would dominate Spitfire MkV's
And we shall close the FW190 Chapter in Aces High.
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Originally posted by Nefarious
And we shall close the FW190 Chapter in Aces High.
No way! :)
Ahem:
FW 190A-0
FW 190A-1
FW 190A-1/U1
FW 190A-2
FW 190A-2/U1
FW 190A-2/U3
FW 190A-3
FW 190Aa-3
FW 190A-3/U1
FW 190A-3/U2
FW 190A-3/U3
FW 190A-3/U4
FW 190A-3/U7
FW 190A-4
FW 190A-4/Trop
FW 190A-4/U1
FW 190A-4/U3
FW 190A-4/U4
FW 190A-4/U8
FW 190A-4/R1
FW 190A-4/R6
FW 190A-5
FW 190A-5/U2
FW 190A-5/U3
FW 190A-5/U4
FW 190A-5/U6
FW 190A-5/U7
FW 190A-5/U8
FW 190A-5/U9
FW 190A-5/U10
FW 190A-5/U11
FW 190A-5/U12
FW 190A-5/U13
FW 190A-5/U14
FW 190A-5/U15
FW 190A-5/U16
FW 190A-5/U17
FW 190A-5/R1
FW 190A-5/R6
FW 190A-6
FW 190A-6/R1
FW 190A-6/R2
FW 190A-6/R3
FW 190A-6/R4
FW 190A-6/R6
FW 190A-6/R11
FW 190A-7
FW 190A-7/R1
FW 190A-7/R2
FW 190A-7/R3
FW 190A-7/R4
FW 190A-7/R6
FW 190A-8
FW 190A-8/U1
FW 190A-8/U3
FW 190A-8/U11
FW 190A-8/R1
FW 190A-8/R2
FW 190A-8/R3
FW 190A-8/R4
FW 190A-8/R5
FW 190A-8/R6
FW 190A-8/R7
FW 190A-8/R8
FW 190A-8/R11
FW 190A-8/R12
FW 190A-8D/NL
FW 190A-9
FW 190A-9/R1
FW 190A-9/R2
FW 190A-9/R3
FW 190A-9/R4
FW 190A-9/R6
FW 190A-9/R11
FW 190A-9/R12
FW 190A-10
FW 190B-0 Proposed
FW 190B-1 Proposed
FW 190C-0 Proposed
FW 190D-0
FW 190D-9
FW 190D-9/R11
FW 190D-10
FW 190D-11
FW 190D-11/R20
FW 190D-11/R21
FW 190D-12
FW 190D-12/R5
FW 190D-12/R11
FW 190D-12/R21
FW 190D-12/25
FW 190D-13
FW 190D-13/R5
FW 190D-13/R11
FW 190D-9/R21
FW 190D-13/R25
FW 190D-14
FW 190D-15
FW 190E Proposed
FW 190F-1
FW 190F-2
FW 190F-3
FW 190F-3/R1
FW 190F-3/R3
FW 190F-4 Cancelled
FW 190F-5 Cancelled
FW 190F-6 Cancelled
FW 190F-7 Proposed
FW 190F-8
FW 190F-8/U1
FW 190F-8/U2
FW 190F-8/U3
FW 190F-8/U4
FW 190F-8/U5
FW 190F-8/U14
FW 190F-8/U15
FW 190F-8/R1
FW 190F-8/R2
FW 190F-8/R3
FW 190F-8/R5
FW 190F-8/R8
FW 190F-8/R11
FW 190F-8/R13
FW 190F-8/R14
FW 190F-8/R15
FW 190F-8/R16
FW 190F-9
FW 190F-10 Unbuilt
FW 190F-11 Unbuilt
FW 190F-12 Unbuilt
FW 190F-13 Unbuilt
FW 190F-14 Unbuilt
FW 190F-15
FW 190F-16
FW 190F-16/R14
FW 190G-0
FW 190G-1
FW 190G-1/Trop
FW 190G-2
FW 190G-2/Trop
FW 190G-2/N
FW 190G-3
FW 190G-3/Trop
FW 190G-3/R5
FW 190G-3/N
FW 190G-4
FW 190G-4/Trop
FW 190G-5 Planned
FW 190G-6 Planned
FW 190G-7
FW 190G-8
FW 190G-8/R4
FW 190G-8/R5
FW 190G-9 Planned
FW 190G-10 Planned
FW 190H-1 Proposed
FW 190S-5
FW 190S-8
Ta 152A-1
Ta 152A-2
Ta 152B-1 Proposed
Ta 152B-2 Proposed
Ta 152B-3
Ta 152B-4
Ta 152B-4/R1
Ta 152B-4/R2
Ta 152B-5
Ta 152V53
Ta 152B-5/R11
Ta 152V19
Ta 152V20
Ta 152V21
Ta 152C-0
Ta 152C-1
Ta 152C-2
Ta 152C-3
Ta 152E-2
Ta 152H-0
Ta 152H-0/R11
Ta 152H-0/R21
Ta 152H-0/R31
Ta 152H-1
Ta 152S-1
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FW190A4 in Hermann Graf colors is the way ta go! :D
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I dont think I could fly a Hermann Graf painted plane, might as well have a red star on it...... :(
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With the weapon combinations, alot of the models you listed are in the game.
You are just getting outrageous with what you listed.
A-1?
it was so prone to fire it almost cancelled the 190 program totally.
I'm pro-everything in this game. Pro-Luftwaffe, Pro-IJAAF/IJN, Pro-RAF, Pro-USAAF. You get the picture. I dont understand why people stress the availability of every variant of one plane. The A-3 is a vital plane, the A-1? give me a break. The G series 190s? talk about a long range target. The lufty boys have a jabo F, and it's hardly used.
Dont bite off more than you can chew.
You should be happy you have a Ta-152.
If any 190 is needed it should be the A-3 and graphic changes to our A-8 to make it A8/R8.
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Damn calm down dude..... :rolleyes: It was obviously joke!
These are realistically needed to fill 190 set in the long run!
FW190A2
(The A1 was pretty insignificant only 100 made while A2 had some 430 built by the end of 1941)
FW190A3
FW190A6
(The A7 is irrelevant since it was the A8 preproduction run in all but name :) )
FW190A9
(Important variant starting fall 1944)
FW190G
Any variant of the FW190G series. These were important long range strike variants with rather large bomb capacity for FW190.
Calm down.... :)
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I dont think I could fly a Hermann Graf painted plane, might as well have a red star on it...... :(
I found this on his book's web site:
Hermann Graf spent many years in Soviet captivity. Much has been said and written about Graf's alleged cooperation with the Soviets. This will be analyzed in detail in the book. The authors have access to an extensive material from Russian POW archives - including Hermann Graf's entire POW file, which has been hidden in a Russian archive until only a few weeks ago (December 2001). Finally, it is possible to uncover the full truth of Hermann Graf's activities in captivity, and to get rid of some long-lasting myths!
I'd like to hear both sides of the story.
OTOH why would it matter if he cooperated with the Russians after his capture. That just tells me he was not a very good NAZI.
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A-3 would be cool because of the cool paintjob with JG2 eagle on sides.
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It's interesting to hear you say "he was not a very good NAZI.", in describing his defection to the communist side. It is interesting because the Soviet camp propagandists called all the loyal Germans "Nazis" as well, when in fact, they were just good Germans who were loyal to their buddies and were able to resist the communist lies and pressures. Apparently Graf didnt feel this loyalty was important. Everything I have ever read about the types who joined the Communists in the camps indicated they were scum. Most were apparently low class poorly educated SS or SA oppritunist degenerates who only knew to go with the strong easy side. Whats even worse is he went on to live in East Germany after the war. He voluntarily went to East Germany for gods sake. Ho completely lost his honor and it was not a matter of temporary weakness under duress of awaful Soviet camp tactics. Is it any wonder he was despised nearly to the man by all surving Luftwaffe Jagdflieger after the war, he wasn't even allowed into their veterans organization?
I do feel sorry for him of course, he was a great pilot, a great leader and national hero during the war but his post war behavior was completely shameful and unnaceptable. He turned to the Soviets for gods sake.... Very sad? :(
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Any variant of the FW190G series. These were important long range strike variants with rather large bomb capacity for FW190.
Calm down.... :)
G Series.
Why would you guys want the G when it is even slower and less guns than F series?
Sorry Grunherz but G series is a waste of time. Fly an F, oh wait nobody does.
Sorry bout being snappy earlier.
;)
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Fw 190A-3 didn't reach combat until Spring '42.
If you want a 1941 Fw 190 you are looking for the A-1.
A-2 were just coming into front line units at the end of '41.
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Well G does have less guns, and thats one of the good things. Who cares about the 13mm anyway on the F? The G still has the 2 x MG151/20 cannon.
What G does have is the ability to carry really big bombs. and thats nice. Or a really big bomb and lots of extra fuel. And it handles better because it has less weight from no guns and no extra F8 armor, which BTW seems to have no effect in AH F8. :)
"Sorry bout being snappy earlier."
No problem, I'm sure you would be surprised to hear this, but I too have been known to have a little BBS temper from time to time. :D
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Stop trying to fight this Funked more FW190 are coming. And they are coming to get YOU, yes you in that pink spitfire! ;)
You are right about the A3 service date, I have confused that with the A2 service date.
The FW190A2 came to JG26 (for sure) and JG2 IIRC in December.
But I still want the FW190A3 most! And it fits the 1942 thing very well. But I wouldn't cry too much if the A1 or A2 were put in either. :)
FW190A3 to AH!
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Here are some facts from Fw-190 in action.
"Due to the rapid development of the Fw190, the first examples of the A3 were ready to leave the assembly lines by late 1941."
"Fw190A3's began to reach Western Front units by Spring of 1942"
"Production figures of the Fw190A3 are, again, contradictory.Some sources claiming 500 machines produced, while higher estimates claim over 200 were delivered in late 1941 and over 1,800 were delivered in 1942."
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Originally posted by Nefarious
Sorry Grunherz but G series is a waste of time. Fly an F, oh wait nobody does.
;)
I fly the F quite a bit. I like the bomb load out.
I think the 190 series is well represented. How about fleshing out the Mossie range or something, rather than adding to a rather well rounded representation of 190 models?
Palef
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Originally posted by palef
...]or something[...
like a perk GV or two, or better yet Italian or Russian planes.
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S! Grunherz
The A3 would be marginally lighter.
But it would also be slower and have a poorer climb.
The A3 did not run as high a boost as the A4 or A5.
1.33 Atas instead of 1.42.
They were still having cylinder head reliability problems.
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The Hornisse or a HE-177 would be of higher priority, but the one FW190 that just HAS to be in AH is the one below ;) :
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Originally posted by Nefarious
G Series.
Why would you guys want the G when it is even slower and less guns than F series?
G series Fw190 was as fast as F series Fw190. 190G2 was as fast as the Fw190A5 and F3 (its immediate counterparts), 190G8 was as fast as the Fw190A8 and F8
Why would I want the G?. ..Because this time HTC couldn't avoid adding the fittings and weapons options the F8 also had (but we don't have here)...that is, extra armor, wing Drop Tanks and 250kg wing bombs.
F8 could carry those goodies, and rockets too, but we don't have them here. And I don't hold my breath to see them anytime soon.
Sorry Grunherz but G series is a waste of time. Fly an F, oh wait nobody does.
G8 would be the STANDARD 190 jabo in aces high. It would be WITHOUT QUESTION able to be fitted with wing bombs and drop tanks making it a long range jabo in the same league as the american fighterbombers.
BTW If I could do it, I'd never fly with cowl MGs in the 190, neither in the As, neither in the D, neither in the F. 190G had no cowl weapons. Yippieeeeeeeeee!
BTW; the 190F8 is little used in aces high because, ironically, AH's 190A8 with 30mm is by far better jabo than the F8 we have modelled. The F8 lacks the wing drop tanks, the wing heavy bombs, the anti-tank rockets and the extra armor...and has 2 less cannons than the A8. Still you ask why the F8 gets so little use?.
Sure, it can carry 4x50kg on the wings and has bubble canopy. But that is nothing compared with what this plane could carry in real life. Here the F8 is worthless. No more, no less.
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Sorry. Waste of time. No more additions or improvements to AH.
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Please dont clutter up AH2 with the 190a3...
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In the book by Osprey Aircraft called "Focke Wulf, Fw190 Aces of the Western Front" it says about the Fw 190A-1 and its engine:
"...Gruppe's Technical officer,Oberleutnant Rolf Schroedter, who was finally to solve the persistent overheating problem with the lower rear cylinder of the BMW 801 by the simple expedient of rerouting part of the exhaust system - a modification which could quite easily be carried out in the Gruppe's own workshops!"
This doesn't mean the A-1 was trouble free , but it helped kill most of the overheating problems . Which by the arrival of Fw 190A-2 almost all of the problems of the previous version were corrected.
Oh! and I'd prefer to see an A-2 instead of an A-1, which were not only in limited production runs, but had a puny loadout aswell. A2 was the first one in service, if I recall correctly, to use 4x MGFF cannon in its wings.
By that time I hope they atleast have updated the 109s and the Runstang's cockpits and of course the Fw190's, after those 2 are finished.
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overheating problems were gone in the A-1. Not at all but mostly.
Glassess, 190A2 had 4xMG17 7.92mm and 2xMGFF 20mm, not 4xMGFF 20mm cannons, as you say. The early 190 batches were critized by the pilots testing them operationally because their inadequate weapons...A2 was the first to include MGFF cannons, and A3 replaced inner MGs with Mauser MG151/20 cannons.
I think that early versions of the 190 are needed, but not BADLY needed. Funked is basically right that the performance difference between A3 and A5 is minimal.
There are way more urgent issues than this.
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Ah has enough american, german and british fighters at the moment and not enough soviet, italian, and japanese fighters bring in more of those first then talk about other variants of current models. btw i have a suggestion for the next soviet plane YAK 3!!!!!!!! and it's true that their aren't enough bomber types from all countries so additional bombers would be great :)
p.s. the guys in charge said they were focusing on the pacific planes so maybe a few new planes will be introduced from the european theatre but most will be from the pacific. i'd like to see more mid to late war japanese fighters we all know american fighters are well represented at least in the # of variants.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I do feel sorry for him of course, he was a great pilot, a great leader and national hero during the war but his post war behavior was completely shameful and unnaceptable. He turned to the Soviets for gods sake.... Very sad? :(
From what I read in a book, Graf witnessed the elimination of a town (women and children included) by the SS. While this is not an excuse for being a "traitor" to one's country, it does place into context his thoughts and feelings toward his homeland and the Nazi government. Given that he may have been feeling guilty by being associated with the Nazi regime that was responsible for this act, you can see how he would be more likely to crack under the strain of the Soviet interrogations.
Does this excuse what he did? I don't know, but I can at least understand his thoughts and actions better (that is, of course, if what I read was true). Also, since I doubt that you have been subjected to the amount and intensity of the interrogations that he faced, you might want to cut him some slack.
BACK TO THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD:
I wouldn't mind seeing a 190A-3, but I think there are more pressing issues in terms of the plane set that need to be addressed before another 190 is added (i.e. PTO, Soviet and Italian planes).
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You are both wrong on FW190A1 and A2 armament!
FW190A1
2 x MG17 in cowl
2 x MG 17 in wingroots
2 x MG-FF in outer wings
FW190A1
(http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta/wa1.gif)
FW190A2
2 x MG17 in cowl
2 x MG151/20 in wingroots
2 x MG-FF in outer wings
I have also read that some of the FW190A2 may have had 4 x MG-FF but I belive the MG151/20 to be much more likely because of the FW190 middle two ammo bins were always designed with belt fed weapons in mind. Also it is known that the first use of the FW190A2 was in JG26 by Josef Priller and Joachim Muncheberg, and the JG26 Diary says their planes were armed with MG151/20.
SUPERFLY rest assured AH is in an eFternal state of "sucking" and is in constant need of improvWement, can you imagine how bad it would suck if you and NATEDOG sto1pped working on it an9d just left it up to th0ose bigheadAed frontmen Hitech and Pyro :) ? We know ho r3ally runs the show.. :D
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
You are both wrong on FW190A1 and A2 armament!
My fault, I mistook the A1 and A2 weapons....the A2 was the first 190 mounting Mausers in wingroot spots and MGFFs in the outter wing spots.
However...
FW190A1
2 x MG17 in cowl
2 x MG 17 in wingroots
2 x MG-FF in outer wings
No, not as far as I know, and will be a surprise if you prove me to be otherwise. AFAIK, A1 firepower was just 4xMG17, wich met spirited critizism between the pilots who flew the plane over the channel and was the main objection to the plane if it was to be deployed operationally.
the A1 planes **may** have been refitted with MGFF later (I'm not sure about that), but at least, as they were delivered from factory they had no 20mm cannon fitted.
About the MGFFs in the inner firing wing spots...I don't think the MGFF was ever mounted in a spot where syncronization was needed...wasn't that (the easyness of syncronization) the reason why Mausers were to be fitted in that spot? (AFAIK, the MG17s in wingroots were just a stopgap measure until the Mauser MG151/20 was in full production)
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RAM that diagram is from a LW techical manual and it shows the MGFF mounting .
I believe it had MGFF from the start but will look into it further.
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This paintjob alone is worth adding the Fw 190A-3.
(yes, I know this particular machine is A-4 :))
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190A-6 in colors of JG54 Grünherz.
1. No cowling bulges like in a8 due to only 7.9mm MGs.
2. 4xmg151/20 :)
It would fly like A5, but with 4xmg151/20 :)
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Hurng??!!!??? Ok Gimme it then 4x Mg151 greatness with A-5 maneuverability that should be nice.
But I still would want an A-2 as it would represent the early war Wurger burger with fries and a small Coke(Note:COCA-COLA)
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A-2(for early variant), A-6(for guns and performance) and A-9(for late variant).
Some G model for jabo.
I think these would be more important than A-3. But whatever you wish.
Any new 190 is good 190.