Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: LePaul on May 16, 2002, 02:56:20 PM
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Just back from seeing the movie, went to the noon show.
WOW.
Won't ruin it for the rest of you guys, but the effects are amazing...its a long movie...2.5 hours (well, minus previews)...I thought they did a nice job filling in for the 10 years that have passed since Episode 1.
If you dont mind the lines, yes, its worth it :D
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lines as in dialogue, or as in waiting?
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Waiting lines....
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I concur. caught the 9:15am showing here. was well worth the mini vacation I took from work. Well, other than the f***ing sound cutting out when Padmé and Anakin were talking. I mean it'd be ok if it cut out during an action scene with no dialogue, but we missed about 45 seconds of dialogue. You'd have thought they would have at least rewound the movie. ;) Oh well, an excuse to go see it again! I gotta hear what I missed in that 45 seconds.
Overall, fantastic special effects (whaddya expect?), wonderful music (whaddya expect?) and LESS Jar Jar!!! ;) It improved upon the "problems" with Ep I and it felt very, well, Star Warsy.
Anyways, I really enjoyed it, but as with all movies, YMMV.
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Agreed
Favorite scene....
In the club, when Kenobi barks at Anakin "I swear you'll be the death of me!" Whole audience roared on that one.
Great movie to see in a packed theater. Hell we had folks applauding when C3P0 made it in, and the Yoda fight was a huge hit too. Just don't get those kinda vibes/feedback when you rent :D
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I've heard that the audiences are hissing when Jar Jar enters the scene and then cheer when he leaves.
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I thought it was kick ass. There were only a few parts of dialog that I thought were a bit cheesy but nothing like jar jar from ep 1.
Mace and Jengo Fette, what a scene :D
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Music by
Johannes Brahms, Richard Wagner, and Franz Schubert.
Fun movie otherwise. Most enjoyable part for me was Yodas display of his unequivocal owning ability. You must fear a being that can't combine words in the right direction, and yet be the most powerful being in the galaxy.
Overall, you can definatly tell that Lucas is starting to get back into the groove of creating movies correctly.There is no doubt that in Episode I his abilities as a filmmaker were rusty--which was painfully evident. Episode II ameliorated that.
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Not everyone agrees.
In space, no one can hear you groan. (http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/review/2002/05/16/attack_clones/index.html)
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Every movie is bad when you overanalyze it--some are easier to find flaws in than others. I will agree with that author on one thing though, Hayden (blatent crib of a stage name from the real Haydn) was garbage; they should have casted me. Not only am I more secksi, but I actually have an affinity for Star Wars, and I am also a natural actor.
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Sorry Nath, John Williams is the man of the hour (or, atleast of this thread :cool: )
LePaul, I couldnt agree more with ya :). Cant wait to see it again! The *only* thing I didnt like was the death of Anikan's mother (cheese). Imperial March playing while the thousands of troopers march into the early star destroyers gave me goosebumps :D It was too beautiful! lol
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Jengo maybe the only reason I'll watch it when it comes out on DVD or whatever...hopefully he's got a decent part in the movie.
Kanthy
Originally posted by Udie
Jengo Fette, what a scene :D
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Umm, that reporter sounds like she's never actually seen a Star wars film. Could she be more insulting to those who liked them?
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Just came back from seeing it.
Quite dreadful really. But then again, I watched 12 O'Clock High last night so I might have set the bar tad too high.
One thing is for sure, the soon to be a Darth Vader kid is the worst actor in the galaxy.
Nath, funny, I found the music to be one of the better parts of the movie. :D
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I'm not denouncing the music, it was good--what I was trying to get across was that, like most of William's incidental music and leitmotifs, the themes/melodies/what have you are adscititious and strikingly similar to the listed three's music.
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My cod magic you're right.
George Lucas: For him, the whole galaxy is a town without pity. He approaches the love scenes between Anakin and Amidala with unsheathed embarrassment. Clearly, he can't wait for them to be over so he can get on to the cool stuff, much of which he's stolen from other movies anyway. (A city of roadways floating parallel to one another on many different levels is lifted straight out of "The Fifth Element"; there's a major battle, complete with bloodthirsty beasts, derived straight from "Gladiator.")
what an ass! 5th element? give me a break. Does she not know that Star Wars was written a looong time before the 5th element made it to the silver screen? Sigh.. i could go on and on with the blatant mistakes that jump out. Waaaay to critical.. especially with a Star Wars film!
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She could have also done her homework and made consummate her tirade by writing that John William's is using musical drama techniques laid down by Wagner. Oh yeah, and what about in her review of Lord of the Rings--did she forget how it's so similar to Wagner's The Ring of Nibelungen and a thousand years of Norse mythology?
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Originally posted by Octavius
My cod magic you're right.
what an ass! 5th element? give me a break. Does she not know that Star Wars was written a looong time before the 5th element made it to the silver screen? Sigh.. i could go on and on with the blatant mistakes that jump out. Waaaay to critical.. especially with a Star Wars film!
Star Wars may have been written before the 5th Element but that has absolutely nothing to do with Return of the Clones which was written decades later and probably after 5th.
I saw that scene in the commercial. It immediately reminded me of the same sort of scene when Leeloo jumped off the building and landed in Dallas' taxi.
As for her being critical, she should be. You hear some of the toejame Lucas said on the "special edition" Phantom Menace DVD? Lucas is so full of himself and his single franchise. It's pathetic and laughable. Going on and on about how you have to be careful with the craft and how not go too far with certain things. And yet, Jar Jar remains.
Don't get me wrong. I liked the first two movies, Episodes 4 and 5. I saw the first movie easily a dozen times back in the day (you know, before VCRs). Still, I'll probably wait for this one on disc.
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Jar Jar Binks is a slightly important element in these movies. He is vital in ensuring the truism that the most loyal person isn't always the most intelligent. Was Rudolph Hess to Hitler the most intelligent man? Nope. But he was vital in getting Hitler's insane views across. I know that's a very harsh analogy but it is probably the most understandable.
If you let Binks get to you, then I think you are depriving yourself of the true eclecticism in personality, size, and caring that all of the beings the Star Wars universe offer!
Btw Wagner was the death of music.
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Bah Star Wars is sci fi for the masses, like what CFS is to AH.
When I see something like Chapter House Dune get done for the big screen, then I'll be impressed.
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Originally posted by Nath[BDP]
Btw Wagner was the death of music.
..While you seem to be trying very hard to be the death of every single conversation.
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Sandman,
I shouldnt have used when the films were written as a reason. Futuristic cities with flying cars and many flashy lights isnt a very original idea in the first place. I could make a movie about some guy taking his dog for a walk.... and she would scream in her review that I 'stole' that from the thousands of other movies that feature guys walking dogs! It just seems like she's looking for a fight. Does she not want millions of people to enjoy the continuation of a classic by nit-picking silly little details? If she's against LucasFilm cashing in on the Star Wars series, why not come right out and say it instead of looking like a fool to the readers?
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just to spite her, I'll go see it again. At night when I have to pay $7 instead of $5. :p
Sheesh Nath, why don't you just outright call John Williams anti-semitic. That is what you're getting at, aren't you?
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It's not about intelligence versus loyalty.
It's about having to protray ignorance as some kind of childish, babbling that is extremely annoying.
If you don't let Binks get to you, enjoy the bliss. :D
Kanthy
Originally posted by Nath[BDP]
If you let Binks get to you, then I think you are depriving yourself of the true eclecticism in personality, size, and caring that all of the beings the Star Wars universe offer!
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Originally posted by Octavius
Sandman,
I shouldnt have used when the films were written as a reason. Futuristic cities with flying cars and many flashy lights isnt a very original idea in the first place.
If it were just the city and the cars, I would tend to agree. But to jump down and fall through them is a blatant boost from another movie. One of my squaddies saw the movie last night. He's a huge SW fan and he had this to say about Lucas' originality in ATOC.
One other thing that will go unnoticed except for fans of the other movies is that many of the ideas in the scenes were simply cut and pasted from other movies, with a small twist. It's really bad to see something that worked so well in a past movie, work poorly now. It almost reaches back into the older movie and cheapens the theme.
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I'm not denouncing the music, it was good--what I was trying to get across was that, like most of William's incidental music and leitmotifs, the themes/melodies/what have you are adscititious and strikingly similar to the listed three's music.
Nath, I'm pleasantly surprised that you know the music of Wagner, Brahms and Schubert.
But you do realize that your statement above is somewhat of an oxy-moron, in that those three certainly did not share a common musical ideology. In fact, Schubert was dead before Wagner and Brahms became famous in the musical world. Since Schubert was best known for being a prolific master at composing "lied"(songs), I'm trying to think of any orchestral music from him that was similar to any in the latest Star Wars film.
And while Brahms and Wagner were peers, age-wise....they couldn't have been more far apart musically. In fact, those two giants of the late Romantic classical music era caused a rift in musical society in Europe. The Brahms camp was conservative, using dissonance sparingly, while the Wagner camp were the bad boys of mid-late 19th century music. Richard Wagner was arguably the most influencial composer in the history of Western Music, and combined with Franz Liszt, those two made up the "Weimar" school of musical thought, expousing radical chord structures and the use of Leitmotif's and "Program music".
But I agree with you about the "Lord of the Rings" analogy. Wagner was already doing "Lord of the Ring's" way back in the 1860's, only he called it "Der Ring des Niebelungen". :)
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Oh, one more thing, Nath. If you really want to know who influenced John Williams, go find a CD of the film music of Erich Wolfgang Korngold. He was a famous hollywood film composer of the 1930's and 40's. Some of his film music includes "Captain Blood", "The Sea Hawk" and "The Adventures of Robin Hood".
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Sorry for partially hijacking this thread, but... in your opinion, who would qualify as modern masterpiece creators, Instrumental Soundtracks-wise?
Here go my favourites:
Elmer Bernstein
John Williams
Ennio Morricone
Jerry Goldsmith
James Horner
Hans Zimmer
Daniel
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banana Johnson is Right!!
Game, Set, Match
Cobra
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Originally posted by banana
Nath, I'm pleasantly surprised that you know the music of Wagner, Brahms and Schubert.
But you do realize that your statement above is somewhat of an oxy-moron, in that those three certainly did not share a common musical ideology. In fact, Schubert was dead before Wagner and Brahms became famous in the musical world. Since Schubert was best known for being a prolific master at composing "lied"(songs), I'm trying to think of any orchestral music from him that was similar to any in the latest Star Wars film.
And while Brahms and Wagner were peers, age-wise....they couldn't have been more far apart musically. In fact, those two giants of the late Romantic classical music era caused a rift in musical society in Europe. The Brahms camp was conservative, using dissonance sparingly, while the Wagner camp were the bad boys of mid-late 19th century music. Richard Wagner was arguably the most influencial composer in the history of Western Music, and combined with Franz Liszt, those two made up the "Weimar" school of musical thought, expousing radical chord structures and the use of Leitmotif's and "Program music".
But I agree with you about the "Lord of the Rings" analogy. Wagner was already doing "Lord of the Ring's" way back in the 1860's, only he called it "Der Ring des Niebelungen". :)
I'm well aware of the competition that existed between the Brahmsians and Wagnerians during the middle/late Romantic period--as well as how it affected 20th century music. You must remember that what I originally wrote is that I notice very much of Wagner's, Brahms's, and Schubert's music in William's(mostly speaking of form and melodies); "Music by, W, B, and S." Now that has nothing to do with at which time Schubert lived, nor that Brahms's and Wagner's styles were polar opposites. William's is free to use work from any other previous composer, but being an irreverent cribber isn't something that I admire. Also, Schubert was not only the most genius composer of lieder (followed by Schumann and Brahms) but he was also one of the greatest orchestrators. I think you are missing out on his later symphonies, namely the 8th(Unfinished) and 9th--delightful works of lyrical Classicism, which influenced Brahms greatly.
In regards to the Wagner and Liszt companionship, it is true they were rebels; Liszt's invention of the symphonic poem, as well his ardent nationalism (which were realized in his Hungarian Rhapsodies as well as his overall use of folk themes) greatly influenced predecessors like Hector Berlioz and his Symphonie Fantasique, as well as Bedrich Smetana's also highly influencial Czech nationalism--resulting in Dvorak, and the later great Bella Bartok. Also don't forget Brahms's Hungarian Dances, not only are they nationalistic, but they also have very similar elements comparable to the Wagner and Liszt styles; I strongly believe that Brahms's Hungarian Dances are some of his finest works--especially if you like woodwinds and brass. Wagner is an interesting case, there is no doubt that he was a genius of orchestration--but most of his great orchestral works were written for his early operas--or his later music-dramas, as he liked to call them; The Ring of the Nibelungen cycle is one example of his musical-dramas--The Valkyrie is the second out of the four musical-dramas which form the whole of The Ring. A lot of his styles were so radical with the use of excessive modulation, incomplete cadences, dissonant chords, terraced dynamics, as well as many many other expressionist ideas, that he was probably the major influence of the early 20th century etiolation of music with acidic dissonance. It must be remembered that most of Wagner's works were done to accompany the drama on stage. Wagner looked to the opera as a place where people could be confounded with great emotion--and his plan was to reach this goal by making the orchestra just as important as the libretto, cast, and scenery. The result were works like Ride of the Valkyries (Ace III, Scene I of Die Walküre), the preludes to Act I and III of Lohengrin, etc... [edit]it is hard to say what Wagner's work would be like if the majority of it were not solely designed to accompany the drama--whats sure is that the compositions he created did this job perfectly. And they were the best possible compositions for that job.[edit]
Karl Weber's Die Freischütz is said to have beeen Wagner's main influence in creation of his distinctive operatic leitmotifs;(leading motives) which were the accompaniment to the drama of short musical ideas for characters, places, or things. Leitmotif were rarely used outside opera but today can be heard in William's compositions.
Thus it can be said that Wagner was highly influencial to the likes of expressionists Arnold Schoenburg and Igor Stravinsky--both of whom, in their early careers, were amazing exponents of dissonance. However, I don't agree on the thought that Wagner was the most influencial composer of ALL Western music; that title would probably be best suited for the likes of Bach or Beethoven. Bach was vital in perfecting all sorts of music, bringing polyphony to its high point, and perpetuating grealy the evolution of the orchestra. Beethoven's influence stretched from new and radical ideas in music, and also in the role of the composer in society. He was one of the first composers to work freely, and not under the influence of a patron, such as was neccessary in earlier times. This social status of Beethoven allowed him to create works that came from his own needs and desires, instead of what his patron would have asked him to compose--like in earlier times. It was this individuality that influenced later composers to be more experimental--which probably led to styles like Wagner and Liszt's... although as usual there were other political changes during the turn of the 19th century in Europe that caused more composers to be freelance instead of having to work under patrons--a system which was diminishing.
Sheesh Nath, why don't you just outright call John Williams anti-semitic. That is what you're getting at, aren't you?
Umm... I have no idea where this came from, but, no.
banana Johnson is Right!!
Game, Set, Match
Cobra
Too funny... the typical cheerleader comes in and rides on someone elses coattails to try and get at me. And banana wasn't even trying to challenge me; it seemed more like he was just starting a conversation... which I respect.
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Originally posted by CyranoAH
Sorry for partially hijacking this thread, but... in your opinion, who would qualify as modern masterpiece creators, Instrumental Soundtracks-wise?
Here go my favourites:
Elmer Bernstein
John Williams
Ennio Morricone
Jerry Goldsmith
James Horner
Hans Zimmer
Daniel
Morricone is my fav. That man had an almost scary sense for capturing emotions with music.
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Hey Nath, let's sit down over a cold one and talk about it. We could be the classical dweebs of AH. ;)
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hehe... a dissapointingly esoteric group.
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Exit: Music
Re-Enter: Movie
--The Good-- Casting was well done, Anakin was well casted, Dooku was well casted, Mace Windu didnt disapoint. Effects, who can argue with the land battle scenes in the last hour? Yoda... what else has to be said be said. Excellent sound, lightsabers sound like they have a personally all to themselves, music... John Williams, come on. Only 30 seconds of Jar Jar Binks dialogue.
--The Bad-- Dialogue... way... way... way too much. Not all of it "cheesy" but 90% of it unnecessary. "Anikan, Im going to the bathroom now." "Are you going to wipe?" "Yes Im going to wipe." "...Im going now." "Im wiping." "Ok, Im done going to the bathroom." "Good, I am glad you are done going to the bathroom." (No this is not an actualy exchange, but gives you an idea of the absurdity of some of the conversation.) Some of the scenes between Anakin and Padme were borderline embarressing, poorly acted, and well.. just bad. Anakin... while well cast, is not going to get an emmy. Some good scenes, some bad scenes... again, too much dialogue that ruined them.
--The Ugly-- Some of the characters... they actually were ugly. Who the hell is Dex? (Big weird thing from the bar talking with Obi Wan.) Obi Wan is a hack... an amature Jedi - gets his bellybutton kicked in in every movie so far. Jengo Fett... the only actor that performed worse than his lackluster attempt was his son Boba Fett... again, pointless lines and absolutely NO personality on both counts. Oh.. and those centipede looking things that try to kill Padme... now those are ugly.
--The Verdict-- Is is Star Wars? Yes. Is it better than Episode I? By 12 parsecs. Is it as good as the original? No. Good music, good action sequences. Everything is starting to tie in together (We see plans for the Death Star, Clone Troopers look like Storm Troopers, and the Troop Transports look like smaller Imperial Star Destroyers.) But the new movies are lacking what the originals had... style. The technology is getting in the way of a good story. The scene where Anikan flips out and goes ninja on the sand people was unnecessary. The "feel" of the original could have been maintained by showing his face... very angry... and the sound of a lightsaber ignighting, maybe a blue hue... and thats it. Next scene. People arent able to form their own theories with the new ones... that was the draw to the old ones... what happened, who was who, when did this occur, what was meant by this? The new movies answer all of these questions for us... there is nothing except a "good movie" there is no debate and analysis of events afterwards.
Example:
2 Best lines/scenes from Original Trilogy
1. The Empire Strikes Back: Darth Vader - "Far too easy..." (Flips on switch for carbon freeze)
2. A New Hope: Obi Wan Kenobi - "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." (Consequently gets his head removed)
2 Best lines/scenes from New Trilogy
::sound of wind... somewhere a pin drops::
No seriously...
There arent any... they are all saturated with dialogue and the is no "mystery" to what is being done or said... "Far too easy" in new trilogy speak is "Fighting Luke is too easy, now that he is down in the carbon freeze vent, I am going to use my force powers to flip the switch 20 feet away." See the problem? IMHO, it is becoming less Star Wars and more Star Trek... strage technologies... visual effects just for the sake of visual effects.. bland action, and bad dialogue.
If I could pick one scene from Episode II that I thought had the feel of the original - and youll know it when you see it - it is when Anikan and Padme are on Tatooine and Anikan brings his mother home wraped in a cloth. Camera closes up on his face - not a word is spoke, and you know he's pissed... then camera shows Padme coming out of little desert hut with simple blue sky and yellow sand. NO DIALOGUE - emotion is imagined by the audience, not explained by the movie - like a good book.
Wow... I got into that huh? Im done, carry on.
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Yoda is not one to be trifled with;) Great effects, great story line, but I am a Star Wars nut.
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The scene where Anikan flips out and goes ninja on the sand people was unnecessary.
You just don't get it do you........
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Originally posted by Nath[BDP]
Too funny... the typical cheerleader comes in and rides on someone elses coattails to try and get at me. And banana wasn't even trying to challenge me; it seemed more like he was just starting a conversation... which I respect.
As predictable as Pavlov and his dog. :)
No need to get in a bunch there Nath.
First off, banana and I have this running joke.
Secondly, I've done abit of classical study and playing myself during my life....actually quite alot, and have had the chance to play with and take lessons from some people I really respect.
It's alot more fun doing that than typing ad naseum about it. So no need to get all Nath on me. :)
Cobra
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Originally posted by Cobra
As predictable as Pavlov and his dog. :)
No need to get in a bunch there Nath.
First off, banana and I have this running joke.
Secondly, I've done abit of classical study and playing myself during my life....actually quite alot, and have had the chance to play with and take lessons from some people I really respect.
It's alot more fun doing that than typing ad naseum about it. So no need to get all Nath on me. :)
Cobra
laff...
Why don't you just get someone else to post here about how much you know, than just saying it yourself? Might be more effective in getting people to believe in your faux music expertise. No one's ever going to care about how much you know if you never converse with it--I'm amazed you haven't learned this already. Instead, you decide to come here and attempt a bad "get at Nath in the only way I can--on the boards" routine. Get a new posting style--your's is quite the trite. ;)
Another thing, why are you even here babbling about how well-to-do you are in real life? Go play your with your instrument; I enjoy conversing with actual intellectual people about the subject.
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Originally posted by Nath[BDP]
laff...
Why don't you just get someone else to post here about how much you know, than just saying it yourself? Might be more effective in getting people to believe in your faux music expertise. No one's ever going to care about how much you know if you never converse with it--I'm amazed you haven't learned this already. Instead, you decide to come here and attempt a bad "get at Nath in the only way I can--on the boards" routine. Get a new posting style--your's is quite the trite. ;)
Another thing, why are you even here babbling about how well-to-do you are in real life? Go play your with your instrument; I enjoy conversing with actual intellectual people about the subject.
Nath,
You might think I'm someone else on this board that you had a "discussion" with regarding choice of music. I'm not that person.
I don't think I've ever posted anything about you on this board before.
Hehe...never claimed or babbled about a well-to-do life on this board or in this thread, not sure where you're coming from on this one :)
Just said I've had a some experience in this area...no more, no less.
Infer what you want :) And like I said..banana and I have this running joke, so just slow down a little and breathe.
But your first paragraph above is a whopper. :)
And, yes, I did take my kids to see Star Wars this afternoon. It was fun.
Cobra
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Why don't you just get someone else to post here about how much you know, than just saying it yourself? Might be more effective in getting people to believe in your faux music expertise. No one's ever going to care about how much you know if you never converse with it--I'm amazed you haven't learned this already.
You misphrased that...
No one is ever going to believe in someone's musical "expertise" if all they do is converse about it.
I'm not really that suprised you haven't learned this already.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by Cobra
Nath,
You might think I'm someone else on this board that you had a "discussion" with regarding choice of music. I'm not that person.
Where did I impy this? Nowhere.
I don't think I've ever posted anything about you on this board before.
Neither do I, well up until your "banana game set match blah blah" piece of platitude... and don't come back here saying that your statement was a just a personal joke between you and banana--because it might have been, but it was also a blatently invidious remark to me, as well as others.
Hehe...never claimed or babbled about a well-to-do life on this board or in this thread, not sure where you're coming from on this one :)
whats this?
"Secondly, I've done abit of classical study and playing myself during my life....actually quite alot, and have had the chance to play with and take lessons from some people I really respect."
Seems like something you are trying to prove here, with no prior posting to me about Classical music. As I said, if you have such a wonderfully enriched musical life, go live it, and stop coming here posting about how well-to-do you are in the field; unless of course you wish to converse here about the subject--perhaps then you will be of some interest.
Just said I've had a some experience in this area...no more, no less.
I respect a humil statement like this, however, not when it's proceding an obvious troll like your first post.
Infer what you want :) And like I said..banana and I have this running joke, so just slow down a little and breathe.
You have this running joke with banana? What is this? Looks like a poor attempt at extenuating your recently self-realized mistake at trolling me.
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
You misphrased that...
No one is ever going to believe in someone's musical "expertise" if all they do is converse about it.
I'm not really that suprised you haven't learned this already.
AKDejaVu
rolf... you really are as dull as I thought. Seems to me that you never have anything interesting to talk about (save for the posts that allow Lev to make a mockery of you)--you don't have the intellectual experience to make such a remark as the one quoted.
Your life must be woefully boring.
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what a facinating thread.
Its like Naths dialog was written by George Lucas......
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Exit: Music
Re-Enter: Movie
--The Good-- Casting was well done, Anakin was well casted, Dooku was well casted, Mace Windu didnt disapoint. Effects, who can argue with the land battle scenes in the last hour? Yoda... what else has to be said be said. Excellent sound, lightsabers sound like they have a personally all to themselves, music... John Williams, come on. Only 30 seconds of Jar Jar Binks dialogue.
--The Bad-- Dialogue... way... way... way too much. Not all of it "cheesy" but 90% of it unnecessary. "Anikan, Im going to the bathroom now." "Are you going to wipe?" "Yes Im going to wipe." "...Im going now." "Im wiping." "Ok, Im done going to the bathroom." "Good, I am glad you are done going to the bathroom." (No this is not an actualy exchange, but gives you an idea of the absurdity of some of the conversation.) Some of the scenes between Anakin and Padme were borderline embarressing, poorly acted, and well.. just bad. Anakin... while well cast, is not going to get an emmy. Some good scenes, some bad scenes... again, too much dialogue that ruined them.
--The Ugly-- Some of the characters... they actually were ugly. Who the hell is Dex? (Big weird thing from the bar talking with Obi Wan.) Obi Wan is a hack... an amature Jedi - gets his bellybutton kicked in in every movie so far. Jengo Fett... the only actor that performed worse than his lackluster attempt was his son Boba Fett... again, pointless lines and absolutely NO personality on both counts. Oh.. and those centipede looking things that try to kill Padme... now those are ugly.
--The Verdict-- Is is Star Wars? Yes. Is it better than Episode I? By 12 parsecs. Is it as good as the original? No. Good music, good action sequences. Everything is starting to tie in together (We see plans for the Death Star, Clone Troopers look like Storm Troopers, and the Troop Transports look like smaller Imperial Star Destroyers.) But the new movies are lacking what the originals had... style. The technology is getting in the way of a good story. The scene where Anikan flips out and goes ninja on the sand people was unnecessary. The "feel" of the original could have been maintained by showing his face... very angry... and the sound of a lightsaber ignighting, maybe a blue hue... and thats it. Next scene. People arent able to form their own theories with the new ones... that was the draw to the old ones... what happened, who was who, when did this occur, what was meant by this? The new movies answer all of these questions for us... there is nothing except a "good movie" there is no debate and analysis of events afterwards.
Example:
2 Best lines/scenes from Original Trilogy
1. The Empire Strikes Back: Darth Vader - "Far too easy..." (Flips on switch for carbon freeze)
2. A New Hope: Obi Wan Kenobi - "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." (Consequently gets his head removed)
2 Best lines/scenes from New Trilogy
::sound of wind... somewhere a pin drops::
No seriously...
There arent any... they are all saturated with dialogue and the is no "mystery" to what is being done or said... "Far too easy" in new trilogy speak is "Fighting Luke is too easy, now that he is down in the carbon freeze vent, I am going to use my force powers to flip the switch 20 feet away." See the problem? IMHO, it is becoming less Star Wars and more Star Trek... strage technologies... visual effects just for the sake of visual effects.. bland action, and bad dialogue.
If I could pick one scene from Episode II that I thought had the feel of the original - and youll know it when you see it - it is when Anikan and Padme are on Tatooine and Anikan brings his mother home wraped in a cloth. Camera closes up on his face - not a word is spoke, and you know he's pissed... then camera shows Padme coming out of little desert hut with simple blue sky and yellow sand. NO DIALOGUE - emotion is imagined by the audience, not explained by the movie - like a good book.
Wow... I got into that huh? Im done, carry on.
LOL, but what do you really think? :)
I haven't seen it yet (waiting for the lines to get shorter), good explaination of your view of the movie. SALUTE
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Nath sure gives that thesaurus of his a nice workout......
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Wow nath... you really are amazing.
You wield the kind of booksmarts mixed with a complete absence of real experience that simply wreaks of immaturity. Oh well... after a bit of college its only going to get worse.
My advice to you is to get a PhD in History and find a nice school to teach at. That way, you'll never have to leave the environment where you can just sit back and talk about how badly everyone else did things and how differently you would have done it had you actually done anything.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Nath sure gives that thesaurus of his a nice workout......
I apologize in advance if I'm going to shatter your envy/inferiority complex-inspired falsification of me, but I don't use a thesaurus when I post.
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BTW... Saurdaukar, I saw it yesterday and think you pretty much hit it on the head.
...with one ommision:
Yoda kicks ass.
I can't wait to get the DVD and watch that scene in super slow motion.
AKDejaVu
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i dont like sand. its coarse and rough, not like you.
rofl jesus who writes this toejam? yes the graphics were cool but the plot was so bad so who cares? also i enjoyed the darth maul vs qui-gon/obi-wan fight at end of phantom menace much more than the light sabre fight at the end of this one, though i did enjoy the scene in the colusseum when the jedi came to the rescue. and the yoda scene was pretty cool :) but i personally think yoda lost something going to animation from the puppet though they could never have done that fight scene with the puppet....
overall empire strikes back is still the best.
oh but one other thing. natalie portman is so diddlying hot. sooooo mcuh hotter than leia. that white suit in the end oh my god. she much have the most perfect abs in existance, nice and firm but without being all nasty and mannish. and she hard rock hard nips. and a beautiful smile. and she goes to harvard too. wish i was anakin ;)
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deja, deja, dejawho...
Who are you, to tell me I have no real life experience with music? You do not know me!!! I actually attend as many performances at Carnegie Hall/Avery Fisher Hall/etc etc as I can... but I don't expect you to believe me.
I also have a musically rich background in my family... my grandfather was a Vaudeville headliner (he played something like 12 instruments perfectly), and my grandmother was in the follies.
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LOL! You say it so much better than I could nath. I leave you to your self-defeat.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Exit: Music
Re-Enter: Movie
--The Good-- Casting was well done, Anakin was well casted, Dooku was well casted, Mace Windu didnt disapoint. Effects, who can argue with the land battle scenes in the last hour? Yoda... what else has to be said be said. Excellent sound, lightsabers sound like they have a personally all to themselves, music... John Williams, come on. Only 30 seconds of Jar Jar Binks dialogue.
--The Bad-- Dialogue... way... way... way too much. Not all of it "cheesy" but 90% of it unnecessary. "Anikan, Im going to the bathroom now." "Are you going to wipe?" "Yes Im going to wipe." "...Im going now." "Im wiping." "Ok, Im done going to the bathroom." "Good, I am glad you are done going to the bathroom." (No this is not an actualy exchange, but gives you an idea of the absurdity of some of the conversation.) Some of the scenes between Anakin and Padme were borderline embarressing, poorly acted, and well.. just bad. Anakin... while well cast, is not going to get an emmy. Some good scenes, some bad scenes... again, too much dialogue that ruined them.
--The Ugly-- Some of the characters... they actually were ugly. Who the hell is Dex? (Big weird thing from the bar talking with Obi Wan.) Obi Wan is a hack... an amature Jedi - gets his bellybutton kicked in in every movie so far. Jengo Fett... the only actor that performed worse than his lackluster attempt was his son Boba Fett... again, pointless lines and absolutely NO personality on both counts. Oh.. and those centipede looking things that try to kill Padme... now those are ugly.
--The Verdict-- Is is Star Wars? Yes. Is it better than Episode I? By 12 parsecs. Is it as good as the original? No. Good music, good action sequences. Everything is starting to tie in together (We see plans for the Death Star, Clone Troopers look like Storm Troopers, and the Troop Transports look like smaller Imperial Star Destroyers.) But the new movies are lacking what the originals had... style. The technology is getting in the way of a good story. The scene where Anikan flips out and goes ninja on the sand people was unnecessary. The "feel" of the original could have been maintained by showing his face... very angry... and the sound of a lightsaber ignighting, maybe a blue hue... and thats it. Next scene. People arent able to form their own theories with the new ones... that was the draw to the old ones... what happened, who was who, when did this occur, what was meant by this? The new movies answer all of these questions for us... there is nothing except a "good movie" there is no debate and analysis of events afterwards.
Example:
2 Best lines/scenes from Original Trilogy
1. The Empire Strikes Back: Darth Vader - "Far too easy..." (Flips on switch for carbon freeze)
2. A New Hope: Obi Wan Kenobi - "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." (Consequently gets his head removed)
2 Best lines/scenes from New Trilogy
::sound of wind... somewhere a pin drops::
No seriously...
There arent any... they are all saturated with dialogue and the is no "mystery" to what is being done or said... "Far too easy" in new trilogy speak is "Fighting Luke is too easy, now that he is down in the carbon freeze vent, I am going to use my force powers to flip the switch 20 feet away." See the problem? IMHO, it is becoming less Star Wars and more Star Trek... strage technologies... visual effects just for the sake of visual effects.. bland action, and bad dialogue.
If I could pick one scene from Episode II that I thought had the feel of the original - and youll know it when you see it - it is when Anikan and Padme are on Tatooine and Anikan brings his mother home wraped in a cloth. Camera closes up on his face - not a word is spoke, and you know he's pissed... then camera shows Padme coming out of little desert hut with simple blue sky and yellow sand. NO DIALOGUE - emotion is imagined by the audience, not explained by the movie - like a good book.
Wow... I got into that huh? Im done, carry on.
Best lines:
ANH: Vader - When I left you, I was but the learner; now I am the master.
ESB: Vader - You are beaten. It is useless to resist. Don't let yourself be destroyed as Obi-Wan did.
ROTJ: The Emperor - Your fleet has lost. And your friends on the Endor moon will not survive. There is no escape, my young apprentice. The Alliance will die...as will your friends. Good. I can feel your anger. I am defenseless. Take your weapon! Strike me down with all your hatred, and your journey towards the dark side will be complete.
TPM: Maul - At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge.
AOTC: Obi-wan - One day you'll be the death of me
The thing I try to remember is Starwars - A New Hope itself is a fairly weak film. The characters a one dimensional at best, and it is a pretty basic A to B story. What saves it is the efforts of ILM, and a remarkable amount of pure joy that the film manages to produce. It does have a stirring soundtrack, and memorable visuals. However to critise the scripts of the sequals is to remember classic whines errr lines like: But I was going into Toshi Station to pick up some power converters... . I was seven when I saw Starwars, and I'm pretty sure I wasn't really worried about scripting etc. So it's amazing how fond of so-so lines you can get in 25(?) yrs.
The Starwars saga IMO is only made great by The Empire Strikes Back. This is where the storyline gets it's heart and soul. The characters are fleshed out, and given real depth. It is an excellent story only enhanced by ILM's visuals. I place sole blame on this on Irvin Kershner's direction , Leigh Brackets and Lawrence Kasdan's rewrite of Lucas's script. Only in this film could a green muppet become an Icon of late 20th century film (no not kermit). If it was left to ROTJ, a few great scenes at the end, mixed with alot of dwarfs in Poo Bear suits doesn't do much to stir the imagination.
So I'm not sure how or what the feel of starwars is, I just know I like it :D
And just like TPM grew on me after time and a few viewings of the DVD , I'm sure the parts of AOTC that didn't quite gel, perhaps will too after a few more viewing (on Disc).
As Yoda said in Empire - No! No different! Only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned.
Tronsky
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:)
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Originally posted by Zigrat
i dont like sand. its coarse and rough, not like you.
rofl jesus who writes this toejam?
Hummmmmmmm I think the movie does THIS quite right, strange as it may sound.
Yes, I mean it. I think that Anakin's words to Padme (most of them almost embarrasing to hear because they are SO...well...old-fashioned, extremely romantic ,but clumsy to the point to be ridiculous :D) are written this way ON PURPOSE.
See, Anakin is a boy who's been under Jedi instruction since he was 9, he has never had to give steps with a girl, and we have also to think that his feelings towards Padme start from the point they were left when he was a simple kid.....so is quite understandable that he behaves like a foolish 13-year-old in-love chap who writtes stupid love letters, and is clumsy to the extreme than instead of being romantic, he is almost embarrasing. Anakin may be 19, and one of the most powerful jedis -potentially- but in the romantic arena....well...he's worse than an 13 year old amateur ;)
I think that the script describes this perfect...it agrees with the situation and the personality of anakin...he's still a kid in many regards, and this is one of them.
It would've been quite cool to see him being an expert with Padme...but quite frankly, I think that Anakin's clumsy approach to PAdmé is more than understandable...it was TO BE EXPECTED ;)
yes the graphics were cool but the plot was so bad so who cares?
Personally I think the plot is REALLY interesting, and the story is immersive. Maybe too much politics for the usually "simple" processes in the previous Star Wars movies, but as a politic intrigue I feel that EpII tells a quite good story.
also i enjoyed the darth maul vs qui-gon/obi-wan fight at end of phantom menace much more than the light sabre fight at the end of this one, though i did enjoy the scene in the colusseum when the jedi came to the rescue.
EpI light sabre fight was simply awesome, and the best thing, by far, of the whole movie.
I also think this movie's is ....somehow...lacking. One has to admit, tho, that to see Anakin fighting with two lightsabres was simply outstanding, and is a scene I can't wait to see again.
I think that the actor playing anakin has lots of skill with the sword, and Cristopher Lee also was great with it (what did you know...he's an old man but he has got a nice grasp of how to fight!). I wish the combat had been longer between Anakin and Dooku, but is not bad as it was...and anyway...then came Yoda :D
and the yoda scene was pretty cool :) but i personally think yoda lost something going to animation from the puppet though they could never have done that fight scene with the puppet....
Yoda's facial expressions are simply OUTSTANDING, and I don't find anything missing in him, to be true.
THe fight...well...no words :).
overall empire strikes back is still the best.
NOthing will beat ESB, ever ;)
oh but one other thing. natalie portman is so diddlying hot. sooooo mcuh hotter than leia. that white suit in the end oh my god. she much have the most perfect abs in existance, nice and firm but without being all nasty and mannish. and she hard rock hard nips. and a beautiful smile. and she goes to harvard too. wish i was anakin ;)
I wish I was han...why? you will ask?...
well, when he is 23, Anakin is going to have his neck broken and from then onwards he'll live forever in a walking iron lung...and his contact with Padme (or any other woman, for that matter) will be equal to NIL.
I'd rather have Leia for a long time than Padme for just 3 years or so...but I admit, that Natalie Portman is REALLY hot, yeah :D
heheheheheheehehehehehehehehe hehe
Overall I have to say that I liked the movie, and not just because the last hour. I liked it all...except some big TOPICS and scenes wich could have been played in a different way for a similar effect...
for instance, when Anakin's mother dies...damnit, the guy has just come after 10 years and he arrives JUST IN TIME to see her alive for barely 60 seconds before she dies in his arms...is so TYPICAL...so...well...topical .
I say, why not make Anakin find his mother in bad shape, but alive, then when he tries to get her out of the zone, a tuskan raider opens fire on them and kills her mother. That way anakin's rage would be explained and his sadness later for not being able to save her mother would be even more understandable...
not to mention that this is NOT a topical scene like the one in the movie...
oh well...nothing is perfect and this movie isn't either...but is very enjoyable anyway.
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what a facinating thread.
Its like Naths dialog was written by George Lucas......
Heh!
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
LOL! You say it so much better than I could nath. I leave you to your self-defeat.
AKDejaVu
omg your posting skills are so bad... what is this? The 100th time you've used this same type of retort against me? yawn.
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Just got back from the movie.
I dont see what the problem people have with it is. I think Lucas did it right and the guy that played anakin did well....
Only thing I would change is the title...
how about
Crisis of the Republic
Or
Republic in Crisis
or
Shadows in the Force
or
Dawn of Empire
or
any number of better names then attack of the clones.
Its not even really what the movie is about.
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i think the movie is great. I watched EP 5 at home again, now
i have a complete different view on Vader, i think Georg done
a great job. To bad EP 3 will come 2005 :/ i can't wait !
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Originally posted by Gh0stFT
To bad EP 3 will come 2005 :/ i can't wait !
only 1100 more days! (according to the counter on swg.stratics.com)
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Thats no moon. It's a space station.
No movie quote will ever come close to that one.
(Except maybe one. If you have seen True Romance you know which one I mean. But then again it's more of a scene or a monolouge than a quote... its when the dad explains to the mob guys about why Sicilians are brown eyed)
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U Eggplant! :cool: