Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Sachs on May 17, 2002, 07:59:04 AM
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My money thinks it will be either the HE-162 to combat the 262.
Or Gloster Meteor.
Maybe the Do-335 might make it in who knows.
P-51 H
P47 N
some other choices.
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My guess would be either the B29, the P-47N, or a Panther Tank (one choice for each category)
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yak 9 UT or Yak3 with VK107 (preach on brothers ;)
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I bet it's the KI-84
Westy
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I bet 50 fighter perks :D that its the Tiger tank, or maybe some russian tank.:D
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Gloster Meteor Mk III would definately be cool !!!
(http://pages.cthome.net/crzn22/MAW/meteor-plate1.jpg)
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Jag Tiger :D
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You can be sure the ORIGINAL 56TH FIGHTER GROUP OF ACES HIGH, is hoping for the P-47N
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I hope the sheep raping farm boys get a P47N ,maybe then something might challenge the Ta152 at the stratosphere,other than buffs :D :cool:
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I bet its either a Ki84 or a P47N
Personally I hope for a P-38M (sleek black.. dot dar avaliable..at 4 perk cost.. yummy)
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I'd bet on the 47N, but I wish it could be the Me-163 only because it would be cool against the buff formations to defend bases.
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Hey you're right yippee!
IN fact, the Me163 is quite possibly the next perk plane.
Why? HT is putting 4 buff-formations ... and if the me163 isnt THE perfect counter (albeit costing perks) to players making missions of 20 players with 4 buffs each (HEHEHEHEHEH).. I dont know what is :) :)
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the Brewsted Buffalo is our next perk ride. You get perk points whenever you fly in it :D
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No, you get 'perkele' points. :)
(Perkele is a Finnish swear word).
Meatball
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B-29A or Me163.
Ki-84 had better not be perked. Its performance doesn't come close to justify being perked.
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S!
P-47M or N. M could be more suitable in MA, but I'd still put my bet on P-47N. 467 mph top speed ... :cool:
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A destroyer.
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YP-80A or P-80A would be nice :rolleyes:
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Boy, a late model P-47 such as the hotrod M would be very cool.
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àh crap
I bet its the Me163 or P47N
Personally i would like the " Volksjäger " He162 A-1 "Salamandar"
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There ain't that many perkable planes left for AH to model. The Ki-84 and Yak-3 prolly don't rate perks. Maybe the P-47M and definitely the Me-163. P-51H, F7F, F8F, and Do-335 should never be modeled. B-29... heh imagine running into 4 of those. :)
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I would say that a list of potential perks would look like this, sticking to "it saw combat":
B-29A
P-47M
P-47N
M24
He162
Me163
He177A-5
Panther V G
Tiger I
Tiger II
Meteor Mk III
Mosquito B.Mk XVI
KV-1
IS-2
If we get to the "almost saw combat" category we can add:
F7F
F8F
P-51H
P-80A
Do335
A7M2
Yak-3 with a VK-107 engine
Seafury
Seafire Mk XV
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me 162...goooooooooooooo mighty fleee!!!!!!!!!!!
BGBMAW
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he177 A5 doesn't constitute perking IMO I think it should be in as a normal unperked aircraft ,if it's modeled,it was in service from '42 to the end of the war. It would be comparable to a German B17, though your list is pretty good Karnak.
Now if only they re arranged the internal fuel to reflect real combat conditions for the ta152(which leaves the the wing tanks filled for last) it would be a more formidable aircraft than what we see in AH and it would come true to the anecdotes in Combat.
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Why would the Ki-84 be perked? Its got 2 x 20mm and 2 x .50's. Does it have that good of performance. Right now I'm looking at something that says it goes only 392 MPH. It climbs 3600 feet per minute. IMO it doesn't look like a perk plane. Not that I would fly it or anything, but I just don't think it would qualify as a perk plane. If you would perk the Ki-84 you would have to perk the La7 also.
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Glasses,
I think the He177A-5 (which is not a 1942 aircraft anymore than our B-17G is) would be a perk plane, albeit a cheap one, because of the following:
Bombload: 13,000lbs (more than twice that of the B-17 and only slightly less than the Lancaster)
Armament: one 7.9mm MG81J machine gun in nose, one 20mm MG151/20 in front ventral gondola, two 7.9mm MG81 in rear ventral gondola, two 13mm MG131 in dorsal barbette, one 13mm MG131 in dorsal turret, one 20mm MG151/20 in tail. (not quite as good as the B-17G, but vastly better than the Lancaster)
Speed: 303mph (faster than either the B-17G or Lancaster).
The He177A-5 out peforms, by a wide margin, every bomber now in AH. In reality this was hampered by a multitude of reasons, none of which are present in AH. Because of this combination (bombload, firepower and speed) the He177 would have the same effect on the usage of other bombers as the F4U-1C had on the usage of other fighters. In my opinion this makes it worthy of the same solution as the F4U-1C, namely cheap perking.
He177A-5 = cheap version of B-29A
Mosquito B.XVI = cheap version of Ar234B
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perking a He-177 would be useless knowing how people love to drop whatever they're doing and go after it. Plus it's guns won't be as good as the B-17 (sure it has a powerful tail gun but underneath all it has defending it is 2 7mms.
Bombload is good. not sure if it was 13k lbs cause everything i've read showed different bomb loads.
speed sounds good but then again there are bombers even faster than it.
Please don't perk the He-177 even at a low perk. The allies have got their good bombers now the germans need a good bomber that isn't perked. I don't wanna use the Ju-88 all the time and then used the He-177 a few times (cause i really don't like to fly anything non-german)
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A-26B I could be so lucky.....
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Soviet,
Do you really think that the He177 was better than the B-17G or Lancaster Mk III?
In AH it would be.
Sure, the Ki-67 is faster, but its got a whopping 1,800lb bomb load.
The He177A-5 is as fast as the B-26, has the bombload of a Lancaster and nearly the defesive firepower of the B-17G.
How you guys could say "Perk the F4U-1C" and can now say "Don't perk the He177A-5" is beyond me. Its utter hypocrisy.
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Hypocracy? I can careless i wasn't even here when the f4u1c was perked. The reason it was perked was MA arena usuage was FAR FAR too extensive. The He-177 shouldn't be perked unless it has a superdefensive armerment like the B-17 with it's uber .50s (not complaining just saying a lot of .50s combined is really deadly and don't say it has MG-131s because we all know those are far worse than .50s)
The fact is it's got a weakness in attacking it if you attack it from the bottom or from the sides or hell even head on (beacause the foward .20mm can't go too hard since it's in a ventral position leaving only 1 7mm to defend a frontal attack. It may sound good on paper but believe me the He-177 would have a lot of weak points that would encourage certain attacks.
If you perk the He-177 then the B-17G better be perked and a earlier model, unperked B17 introduced.
Plus to balance it i propose this. The B-17s were able to carry a lot more bombs but the reason they didn't was the weight would cause it to not be able to go far into Europe and return. Plus the fact that they were all flying in a massive formation and having a lot of bombs on each plane would be sort of redundant
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I hope that someday we get the Do335 in the game but first a Late P47, M was the fast one right? N long range, or other way around? Aswell as a P51H (it did see some very limited service in the pacific).
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Im Curious Karnak, why would you perk the Mossie B.XVI ?
Its a bomber, no defensive/offensive armament save the 4000lb bomb load
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P47M was considered the "hot rod" Jug, Wilbus, but the P47N was not far behind it at all in terms of pure speed. Maybe 13 mph slower, 480mph vs 467mph. The N had P-51 endurance, too. The Jug pilot I talked to said he had had one up for 12 straight hours on two occasions, but his butt was numb from sitting so long and the crewchief had to help him up and out of the cockpit!
FWIW, I hope the Do-335 is NEVER put into the MA, based soley on the criteria "some" players put forth when the whole perk plane deal came out. "It never saw action" or "it didn't see any combat" was the reply when more than a few mentioned the F8F Bearcat as one we would like to see......now some of the same detractors who cried out against the F8F keep mentioning adding the 335, which saw no action either. No offense intended and not necessarily pointing the finger at you personally, Wilbus, just venting I guess.
Oh, as for my "bet" on the next perk plane, I "hope" and "want" it to be the P-47M, but I "bet" it will be a Ki-84.
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No offence taken at all Eddiek, I actually don't think it's got a place in AH, no matter how much I want it, however, it saw service and possibly action so IF the F8F and Meteor MkIII is added, the DO335 should aswell, there are lots more important planes before that though and I think, and Hope, that the P47 M and N aswell as the light weight P51H will make it in to the next few versions, specially teh P47's.
Aswell as a new 190, a D11 or so.
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More of a wish than a bet:
Pe-2I (http://hep2.physics.arizona.edu/~savin/ram/pe-2i.html)
Greetings
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FTJR,
I think that the Mosquito B.Mk XVI is worthy of being perked due to the fact that it could, in AH, carry a 4,000lb bomb at 416mph or 5,000lbs of bombs at ~385mph. Those speeds make it very difficult to intercept, no fighter will be able to see them and then climb to intercept them. An intercepting fighter will need to be in, or close to, position before they are spotted in order to have an intercept chance. Remember, the Ar234B was completely unarmed when it was introduced and for most of its time in AH, it is still functionally unarmed.
Soviet,
The He177A-5 would be the best overall bomber in AH. The B-17G would rate a distant, very distant, second with the Lancaster and B-26B vying for third. Sure, the B-17G has better defesive firpower and the Ki-67 is faster, but as an overall package the He177A-5 would be far better.
That is the same position the F4U-1C was in. Being in that position would cause the He177 to be used vastly more than any other bomber and quite likely more than all others combined. If you'd take your blinders off you'd see that a bomber with that many of the cards would dominate the bomber stable if unperked. We're not talking about "giving the Luftwaffe a good bomber to compete with" as there is no Luftwaffe, just Bishops, Knights and Rooks. So when we compare the capabilities we need to be objective and being objective tells us that as an overall package only the B-29A would be a better bomber than the He177A-5 because AH doesn't model reliability or production numbers.
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Looks like the 177 had a very small available bomb load. Look here (http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/he177.html)
If this is true why would you perk it?
Arguably the largest bomber built by the Germans, the He 177 suffered many flaws and turned into one of the Luftwaffe's biggest failures (when compare service use to the amount of resources invested.) A significant problem that plagued the program from the beginning was a ludicrous requirement that this extremely large aircraft be capable of dive bombing. This combined with the attempt to reduce drag by coupling the engines, while theoretically sound, proved to be impossible in practice for no aircraft in history had engines that would so readily burst into flame. 75% of the prototypes crashed and a good percentage of the 35 A-0 pre-production airframes were written off in crashed or in-flight fires.
About 700 served on the eastern front using 50mm and 75mm guns for tank-busting while a few brave aircrews ineffectually bombed England.
The He 177 proved to be such a big problem that Goering forbid Heinkel to develope a four engine version (though Heinkel did anyways, the result being the He 277).
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place your bets on the next perk ride? hmmm LA-7? LOL:)
for clarification, the P-47M had a real advantage over the P-47N in climbrate. It climbed on scale with ME-109's, 4K+ per minute. The N had a better roll rate than the M, and had the range to go a long ways. The P-47M didn't have the ranmge due to amount of fuel it could NOT carry, thus giving it the power to weight raito that gave it its awesome climbrate. The P-47M would be an awesome MA plane, it would be a blast.
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If the He177A-5 has a smaller bombload, as listed in the site provided by Midnight Target or ~8,000lbs, I'd see no reason to perk it.
But if it has a 13,000lb bomb load as the Luftwaffe experts on this board keep posting, then I'd think it should be perked.
Either it is a compromise between the heavy bombload of a Lanc and the defensive firepower of the B-17 (with a little more speed thrown in for fun) or it is a bomber with the payload of a Lanc, speed of a B-26 and good defensive firepower. The former should be free, the latter should be perked.
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I've never read about it having a 13.000lbs bomb load, not sure where everybody get that from, might be true though. The thing is it could carry Fritz X missiles, weighing about 3000 lbs a pieace I think it could carry 2 of them. MAYBE it carry bombs at the same time.
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If we get to the "almost saw combat" category we can add:
Please for me a a-10 Thunderbolt without Rockets,missiles etc. or a Su27 it would be funny to kill people with F7F, F8F, A7M, P80, P51H, F4U5, F86, etc..
You never will go bed without know something new. I was thinking Meteor never saw battle. My real vote is for him 262 need a enemy .:D
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Just add the P47M and N and the P51H. He162, Me163, 190 D11, Ta152 C (yeah atleast 2 :D were flying in operational service when the war ended)
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162 163 d11 all saw combat :)
D-11 being flown with JV44 along with other D-9's for top cover for the 262's
He-162 having shot down at least a typhoon and other aircraft on the russian front.
163 well we all know about that one.
D-11 or D-12 would be the answer to the tempest IMO.
D-12 would just be plain scary in the MA.
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I think we have enough late war planes, I cant really think of anymore to add, But I think that German Cargo plane would be cool (cant remember the name JU8somethin) It had 3 engines (1 in nose) and 1x7.9mm or 1x12.7 mm MG mounted on top of the fusealage (facing to the rear). Would be basically like a C47 but with a back gunner and a lil faster :)
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Ju52
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By any rational definition of "combat", the Meteor Mk I and Meteor Mk III saw combat.
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Must... have.... P-47-M! As a perk.
And a P-47-N as a non-perk. :D
I something faster to climb up to all these buffs and keel them.
Lephturn
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If Meteor MkIII saw combat then so did Do335.
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F-16 Lawndart
F-14 Tomcat
A-10 Thunderbolt
F-18 Super Hornet (For the Marine Corp) :)
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Stop hijacking the Jug thread with your fantasy planes you weenies!
Erm... the new perk plane thread I mean.
Jug.
Jug.
Jug.
Lephturn
Jug. :)
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"In the close race for the construction of a jet fighter, Great Britain took second place, following Germany. Nevertheless, its Gloster Meteor had the honor of going down in history as the only Allied aircraft of the new generation to go into service before the end of World War II. Despite its limited career during the final months of the war in Europe (in which it did not have the chance of measuring itself against its great rival, the Messerschmitt Me.262), the Meteor also marked the end of an era in the British Royal Air Force and the beginning of a phase that was to see rapid developments in the immediate postwar years. Production of these aircraft continued until 1954, almost 3,900 were completed, the last of which remained in frontline service until August 1951."
"The program was launched in August, 1940, while the Battle of Britain was in progress, on the basis of official specifications coded F.9/40. George Carter, the technicians charged with the project, chose a two-engine configuration. This was due to the fact that the earliest types of turbojets were at an experimental phase at the time and were not yet capable of providing the thrust necessary to guarantee the desired performance alone. In February 1941, 12 prototypes were ordered (although only eight were completed) and the first (equipped with W.2B engines with 205 lbs - 454 kg - thrust) began tests on the ground in July of the following year. Delays in tuning the engine led to the installation of different engines in the remaining experimental aircraft, and the first to take to the air was the fifth prototype, powered by a pair of Halfors H.1 turbojets with 2,302 lbs (1403 kg) thrust, on March 5, 1943. It was an historical date, although the first flight by a jet-propelled aircraft had taken place in Britain on May 15, 1941, carried out by an experimental model of the Gloster (designated E. 28/39) powered by a single Whittle W.1 engine with 860 lbs (390 kg) thrust."
"The initial production series Meteors (Mk.1) were in fact provided with turbojets derived from the Whittle W.1, the W.2B/23 model with 1,700 lbs (770 kg) thrust, which Rolls-Royce had prepared and constructed under the name of Welland. The launching of series production was marked by an order for 20 fighters and the first of these (which took to the air on January 12, 1944) was delivered to the United States in February, in exchange for a pre- series Bell YP-59A Airacomet, the first jet plane to be built on the other side of the Atlantic. Other Meteor Mk. Is were used for the development of the airframe and the engine unit, and the remaining aircraft were delivered to the RAF by June."
"The first unit to receive the new fighters was the 616th Squadron, which entered service in July. On the 27th, the first mission was carried out against the German flying bombs and on August 4, one of these was shot down. The missions against the V-1 s continued throughout the summer and, apart from their reasonable success, they served mainly to train pilots and ground staff in using the new aircraft, as well as to study particular tactics and combat techniques."
"In the meantime, a new variant of the Meteor had been prepared, the Mk.111, of which about 200 were to be produced, 15 with Welland engines and 195 with Rolls-Royce Derwent engines, with 1,997 lbs (905 kg) thrust. These aircraft formed part of the second and final version to enter service in World War II. They were also characterized by their greater fuel capacity and a sliding drop canopy, instead of the Meteor Mk. I's canopy which was hinged to the side. The first was delivered on December 18, 1944 to the 616th Squadron and in January 1945, these aircraft were sent to Belgium, thus becoming the first Allied jet fighter to serve on the Continent."
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didn't the 163 have upward firing (4 x 30 mm) cannon that were fired when a photocell was tripped by the target moving in front of it (thus blocking the sky)...that could make for somewhat boring play
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Wilbus,
What combat did the Do335 see? I have never heard that it saw any combat at all.
The Meteor Mk III was used for ground strikes and 262 hunting (none encountered). There was also a scrap with some Fw190s I seem to recall, no losses on either side. The Meteor's were seeking out the enemy.
The Do335, so far as I have read, only ran from a Tempest once. No guns fired at it, or by it. The Do335 was a test plane that ran from a hostile, as a test plane should.