Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Rude on May 18, 2002, 07:24:03 AM
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and the Whiner is...................
MrRiplEy[H]
Member
Registered: May 2002
Location:
Posts: 62
K West I have slightly more than 6 months online in AH and WB and I still say it's porked.
MrRiplEy[H]
Member
Registered: May 2002
Location:
Posts: 62
Imp a buff in this game is never an easy kill - if the gunner knows his business even remotely.
It's less than 50/50 chance of surviving if you attack a b17 that has an alert gunner. Most successes come by surprise, otherwise mostly the fighter just goes down in flames.
Multiply that by four and you got one heck of a deathstar flying around. I'm really interested to see the outcome and 20 player missions flying b-17's with the drones and annihilating everything in their path. I reckon it's enough to fly in a base at 1k feet and strafe the ground with the turbolasers, the whole base will die in a couple passes.
I wish HT will AT LEAST fix the gunner damage modeling in the game. The gunners practically never die to .50 or lighter hits.. It takes multiple cannon shots to kill g-s probably because theyre modeled like chutes.
It should take only 1-2 hits to kill the gunner just like in reality. Then attacking buffs would become realistic, snipe the gunners from longer range and finish off the rest of the buff from an ideal gunning position.
MrRiplEy[H]
Member
Registered: May 2002
Location:
Posts: 62
Leviathn give us fools your expert opinnion on how to effectively attack a 27k B17 in any given plane.. You make it sound so easy.
So, you're left in a situation where you:
a) Are maybe 30mph faster than he is, one missed bounce means spending 20 minutes on getting to another position.
b) Climb as slow as the buff, if the buff has no load he's sometimes even faster.
c) Lose E and stall if you try to match his turn radius where he retains E and actually extends doing the turn. Happened to me at 27k B26 vs 262 - B26 extended away from 400mph 262 if I tried to turn after it from low 6 position (clear from gunners.)
d) Can only shoot forward while he can shoot you while manouvering from back.
e) Your .50 ammo won't kill the gunners even if they directly hit the turrets/positions, takes several CANNON shots to do that. This is one part which I'm sure resembles chute model. Ever noticed how ridicoulously tough chutes can be? They take 3-4 hits from 37mm field gun to die. Same seems to apply on gunners.
If the B17 was untouchable over 25k in reality also, I wonder why the hell the stupid allied command didn't command them to climb that high routinely to avoid losses. Sure the bombing accuracy would be hurt but OTOH there would be no losses. Not to mention not needing escort fighters, they couldn't keep up with the b17s that high anyway lol.
I know the answer: They couldn't.
But this is a game, share your knowledge on how to defeat the buffs in this situation.
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And the winner of the tard-who-whines-about-other-people-complaining award is Rude.
This whine of the week is probably the only constructive input you've ever displayed on the board and even then it was funny on the first post.
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If that is best you could find.... :rolleyes:
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this definately gets my vote!
"turbolazer"
"deathstar"
"just like in real life"
"It's less than 50/50 chance of surviving if you attack a b17 that has an alert gunner. Most successes come by surprise, otherwise mostly the fighter just goes down in flames."
- These numbers simply arent correct, in tour 28 (and as of today) MrRipley only has a 25% chance of attacking a b17 and surviving. This compared to the general MA odds of a 69% chance of surviving an attack on a B17 and getting the kill. Hmmm.......
"The gunners practically never die to .50 or lighter hits.. It takes multiple cannon shots to kill g-s probably because theyre modeled like chutes."
-Here we see the classic "omnipotent whine."
-and my personal favourite:
"Then attacking buffs would become realistic, snipe the gunners from longer range and finish off the rest of the buff from an ideal gunning position."
-WTF!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!
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loser it was common practise to disable the gunners first on the buffs in order to get peace to kill the engines etc. parts of the plane.
That wouldn't work on huge box formations naturally, but on smaller ones it did.
'- These numbers simply arent correct, in tour 28 (and as of today) MrRipley only has a 25% chance of attacking a b17 and surviving. This compared to the general MA odds of a 69% chance of surviving an attack on a B17 and getting the kill. Hmmm....... '
4 to 1 kills / deaths ratio a 25% chance of surviving? Hmmm... indeed.
Tour25 14kills/2deaths
Tour26 8kills/2deaths
Tour27 21kills/5deaths
Tour28 4kills/1deaths
To me it seems that the bomber has about 25% chance of killing me and 75% chance of dying. And that's because I've taken many of them by surprise therefore not negating my statement of 50/50 odds on an alert gunner.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
loser it was common practise to disable the gunners first on the buffs in order to get peace to kill the engines etc. parts of the plane.
Was it? I asked my father about that; he was there at the time (B24 nose gunner). From what he said fighters didn't try to snipe much of anything except maybe the nose, where you had a pilot, co-pilot, bombadier, navigator, and a gunner. Even at that they were aiming for the aircraft, not for one (or five) people in it. Things were a bit different when the bullets were real and people were actually trying to kill you. The time available to pick your target and hit a specific bit of aircraft was highly limited.
Remember it wasn't one fighter and one (or four) bombers; it was several fighters and a many bombers. Some times the fighters would form up just out of range of the bomber's guns and watch the formation, looking for a weak spot. The gunners would all sit in their turrets (of tails, or waist positions) with their sphincters all nicely puckered waiting for the fighters to turn in and begin their runs. (I suspect the fighter pilots were pretty well puckered, too) Snipe the gunners? Yeah, right. The bombers in formation to the left, right, above, and below will turn your aircraft into window while you peacefully shoot at engines, etc.
I've heard the stories from someone who was there and survived. It ain't nothing like AH. Not even close.
AH is fun.
Now, get two fighters and make a coordinated attack a bomber. Dead bomber. Bye bye. Better luck next time, ol' bean.
Personally I think your whine for being selected as WoW (SE) deserves honorable mention for yet another WoW award. Go buy a sense of humor, eh? :D
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Puck I have read several WW2 books with FAF pilots doing that as a common practise. Its possible that LW had a different approach on attacking the US planes and its possible that the box formations denied even the possibility of the approach I gave.
It did happen however. And doesn't mean it shouldn't be possible to do also here. How many of you readers disagree with me on gunner toughness? Do gunners repeatedly die to machine gun fire on attacks? Cannon birds aside, they kill gunners often even when I fly buffs. I don't recall a time when a mg plane would have disabled my tail gun for example though or I would have disabled it shooting with mg.
I've died often after being fooled to thinking the tailgun was dead. I previously hit the tail good painting it white with hits, not enough to drop it yet though.. Tailgunner doesnt shoot so I move in closer to get a good convergence.. Blam he shoots me down despite the fact his position must be full of .50 holes.
OTOH I've used a similar tactic against the enemy myself. They hit my tail and I stop shooting.. they slowly climb to a close position to take a shot and that's when I knock them out with a long burst.
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nm.
bowser
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Whine of the week posts are always better when the winner shows up to "defend" himself.
WTG mRrIPley!
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Still not content with this special award he's going for it again here (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53667) at this rate I think a special lifetime achievement award will be necessary.
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new catagory's rude?
"Whine of the Tour"
"Whine of the Year"
"Whine of the decade"
???????????????????????
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Aw, c'mon, MrRipley, wear that whiner award like a badge of honor. I know I do! :D
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Heh you bish boys crack me up.
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Puck I have read several WW2 books
he read a book!
wtfg!
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Some guy talking about how difficult it is for him to kill a high altitude buff is hardly a whine.
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Yes I read books written by our top aces describing their war efforts, were you there to witness it first hand?
I doubt it.
One thing is for sure, I must have hit a soft spot with so many bishes attacking me.
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If you think these are entertaining, you should here him on Channel 1.
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actually ripley, i'm a knit.
and i find your crude x-files-like wild accusations to be incredibly tardish.
when will people stop thinking that htc has some alterior motive then to bring you as realistic a sim as possible?
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Originally posted by moose
actually ripley, i'm a knit.
and i find your crude x-files-like wild accusations to be incredibly tardish.
when will people stop thinking that htc has some alterior motive then to bring you as realistic a sim as possible?
So you sure they do not want to make us all addictive, and then sell us to some super allien race of sheeps?
HT, Pyro, I thought of you better!
Fariz
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Geez, Fariz, I have to read your posts multiple times and even then I'm not sure what you are saying. 'Tis okay though, I don't have a second language.:D
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Originally posted by majic
Geez, Fariz, I have to read your posts multiple times and even then I'm not sure what you are saying. 'Tis okay though, I don't have a second language.:D
Majic, I won the "most terrible english award" on this board already, so going to win next year one too :) Remember to vote for me pls. :)
And English is my third anyway :)
Fariz
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sorry ripley, i got my numbers wrong...well half of it. I believe im still right that the B17 gets killed far more often than it scores a kill. (69% like i said)
the rest of my post still stands.:cool:
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burn the Inqisitor !!:D :D :p
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That's ok, accidents happen.
You're welcome to disagree with me on this issue. We both stand stubborn in our views untill someone manages to set us straight.
Wouldn't you think that buff gunner position should be swiss cheese after being hit with .50? None of the descriptions I've read of B17 state that it has more armour than backplates on seat positions and metal structures of windows of turret to protect the gunners. I think they didn't even have an armoured glass strong enough to stop a .50.