Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: marcof on February 08, 2001, 02:47:00 AM
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It seems to me that A/H are looking at ways to increase revenue, and also its player base, IMHO, as in other online flight sims, the way to do this is to add a ww2 setup arena, as far as Allied versus Axis, then start to bring in planes from if you like the start of the war onwards (also Subs, Ships, Tanks etc...). This will bring in about 50% (based on W/B results) more players in the first 6 months, you have only to look at games like EAW, B17, MSCS1, MSCS2, and the newly awaited IL2, to see that players who play these games, and who have never played A/H, would basicly benafit from comming into A/H. The FM in A/H and the challange of flying against human opponets would surely add to their enjoyment.
Marcof.
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*gets out deckchair*
*skins up*
*waits patiently*
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They can also earn more bucks by keeping on trucking as they do (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
I mean I don't necessarily want a HA but would like historical matchup ( (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)).
Lowering price is not a good idea as previous posts have discussed so other than this post I hope no one bring sit up.
Those that do are sissyboys. I have been unable to fly for the last 2 months more more, but when I see somethign worth supporting, I do so, so they've gotten $30 a month from me anyhow.
Everything has a time I guess.
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up space"
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...add a ww2 setup arena, as far as Allied versus Axis... This will bring in about 50% (based on W/B results) more players in the first 6 months...
Well we had a WW2 Setup Arena today. I invited you and your squadmates to come on private, but there didn't seem to be any interest. So much for your theory.
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In addition to the Sunday afternoon events (Check Six, 4pm to 6pm EST) there are Saturday Snapshots (http://events.hitechcreations.com/snapshot.html) and there will soon be Friday Snapshots. A good way to encourage HTC to move towards more historical arena setups is to support these events.
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Of course he never figured out that people who play those games play them because they only have to pay for it once... and most of them have easy flight models. It isn't the axis vs allied setup... it's the cheap cost.
Although, you have to admit Funked.... this guy must have some great drugs if he thinks it's that cut 'n dry.
-SW
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Drugs? I don't think so. Hell I hope he's right!
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Replacing the MA with a WW2 Arena, you want that Funked?
Yup, the day that happens I give up in online games altogether.
-SW
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If a historical format resulted in greater success for HTC? That would rock.
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First of all, we don't have any idea of the success rate of a "historical format" arena.
All we have are basic numbers, based on who bought this game or who's following this game.
Newsflash!!! How many people that play B17II or are registered for that forum have a legit copy? There's 4000 registered members, know how many times I've seen guys post questions regarding information in the manual? I'd say about half the registered members don't have a manual.
Of the people following WWII Ol how many do you think will pay to play it after gets out of free beta? Judging by the posts complaining about paying for it, more than half of those people won't be around.
Of the people following IL2, how many are going to buy it? How many will locate a warez site and download it?
Most importantly, of the people that will pay for IL2 or B17II for a copy of the game... how many do you REALLY think are willing to put up 30$/month to play online? My guess is maybe 20 guys.
Do you really think that because the FM is harder/more realistic that someone playing B17 or IL2 or CFS1/CFS2 will come flocking over here simply because the arena becomes a "historical format" arena? Doubtful, especially when you take a look at the FMs within those games. IL2 is yet to be known as to how good it will be so that's up in the air.
Basing opinion on liquid numbers only makes it an opinion. It's in no way certain the number of players in AH will increase with a "historical format" arena. I might even venture out to say it would be detrimental to AH.
Here's why:
Currently we have 3 countries fighting a 3 way war with fantasy setups. When scenarios come along there's typically a good number of guys that sign up and play in them then go back to the MA for fun. The scenarios are usually lead quite well and are fairly well balanced. A "historical format" arena more than likely will not be balanced or even close to that. In the current MA you get a lot of guys complaining about gang banging or uneven teams. It will only get worse with a two country axis vs allied setup. Guys will choose the side that gives 'em the better planes, the sides will be lopsided, the complaints skyrocket, and people will probably begin to leave in droves. Then you run into the problem of each time a planeset rotates in or out you will see one side have a distinct advantage over the other. Then you couple that with one side containing a significant number of players over the other side.
People would lose more interest over that than I think a "historical format" arena would generate.
I've been there before, I've seen it happen.. and these games cost either nothing or were a one time fee and people were still giving up. Flying Circus-- extinct and Red Baron II which contains only a handful of people online now.
-SW
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Hey, whatever. If you like the pork arena, support it. I'll support the historical events.
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I'm all for historical events. I'd like to see more of 'em.
-SW
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Everytime I shoot down a 109 its a historical event!
Y
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Hmmm...a historical arena, eh? Sounds like an interesting idea, I can't say I've heard of anything like that before. Oh wait...nevermind (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Hey, the reason I quit flying in Warbirds is because the WW2 arena simply doesn't work. One night, everyone flies allies, the next, everyone Axis.... it's completely lopsided. In theory, it's a great idea, but in reality, they just don't have the planeset to pull it off.
Personally, I really like having a *choice* in what I fly.... In other words, I don't like having that choice made for me!
Take the above for what it's worth.... I gave up 4 YEARS of Warbirds to have a choice here in AH.... and I'm enjoying the hell out of it!
-0z-
Lancers
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just goes to show that seawoofie and I CAN agree on something. Besides both being such poor pilots we both hate axis vs allied. It was one of the major reasons I left WB. They even slashed prices. Going axis vs allied didn't stop the growth they would have gotten from such a cut rate plan.... it merely slowed it down.
No... it's not that WB doesn't have a big enough planeset to support a fun axis vs allied.... it's that WWII didn't.
lazs
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In theory, it's a great idea, but in reality, they just don't have the planeset to pull it off.
Planeset has ZERO to do with why a "Historical" environment does not mix well with an "Arena" environment. The main things are lack of structure, lack of discipline, lack of training, lack of purpose, lack of patriotism or basically lack of anything that spells "historical" except for the planes.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by lazs:
just goes to show that seawoofie and I CAN agree on something
It must be a cold day in hell.... ;-)
-SW
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regardig the scenarios... i see so many folks complaining about wanting no dar, historic matchup etc. etc. and then a sceario is held that offers all of that and how many attend ? 40 or so.. and some of the loudest folks from the "historical" bunch have never been seen in there, while they're flying in the MA at the same time ...
talk about hypocrit (sp? ... ahhww whatever)
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I don't necessarily agree that a historical arena is the way to increase HTC's revenues.
In my opinion, there is only ONE way in which HTC can increase its revenues in the medium term. They simply have to add a First Person Shooter layer to the game.
We have aircraft, we have ships, we have armour .... but we have no infantry. Incorporate a decent FPS layer into the game and try to attract the Quake, CS etc players into the game.
Unfortunately, HTC would not be the first to market with such an idea.
I don't know whether the MMOG flight sim groupies out there have sufficient numbers to support all the offerings on show. Aces High, Warbirds, Target Korea, Air Warrior, Fighter Ace, CFS2, IL2, World War 2 Online .... the competition is bloody fierce!
Like it or not, price is gonna be a major factor in the success or failure of these enterprises. Is a 'great' game worth 3 times as much as a 'good' simulation? I sure as hell don't know (although I'm dying to find out) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But what I DO know is that over the past few months I am seeing less and less 'long-timers' in the arena during the evening, and more and more guys whose names seem to fade away at the end of two weeks.
Aces High raised the bar substantially in a number of areas. I hope it comes out on top, but like I said, the competition is fierce.
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When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11
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In reply to Funked
As I said to you last nite funked, as a squad we are still learning how to perform as a squad in AH. The tatics required and flight models are very different to Warbirds and we have not sufficently worked them out yet to be an effective squad.
Our pilots prefer to fly scenarios and historic missions but we are unlikley to fly in any until we finish testing as a squad.
I would add however that Marcof is correct in suggesting that a two sided smaller map with allied v Axis is a much better setup.
I hate shooting down spits or being killed by A mustang, it just doesn't feel right
Freaky
XO 249 RAF Tangmere CHQ
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I think historical campaigns and scenarios are soon going to be the main attraction in AH. There were 200 participants for AK, and that was before 1.05 and the influx of new players.
Just need a fleshed out planeset (give HTC a year).
And a more user friendly mission planner (minus the bugs).
BTW, I really want to fly the la5 or Il-2 in a campaign! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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While I am one of the biggest scenario nuts around, I do NOT think a Axis vs Allied arena like the WB's format is the way to go for your full time flying affair.
I'm sure if your a die hard Allied pilot (only flying Allied) its great for you and alot of fun. You get to "win" the war over and over.
If you like to fly all flavors of planes, or Axis. Well, lets say its not too pleasent.
First you get the uberitis side switchers, who flip flop back and forth to whichever side has the best plane.
Then you have the totally dominate Allied gangbang from the time the Spit V comes out to the "end of the war". Flying 2:1 up too 3:1 odds just isn't fun for most people.
Aircraft technology and Mud moving capability is also a major problem. True to life, after 1942 the Axis just can not compete in Jabo or Bomber capability. Not even close. Even if you inlcuded alot of "what if" or low production aircraft, the Axis just can't compete on an even basis.
These are just a few of the problems with a WWII arena, not to even go into the "social" problems that it causes within the community.
Sorry, history is for Scenarios and Special Events (which are great, don't get me wrong), while the emphasis on the MA should retain a "fun factor".
Just say No to a WWII Arena !! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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yep... the more you narrow it down.... the more you narrow it down. I left WB because I got tired of the same ol variety impaired 109,190 fights over and over. Add some micro warps and you have the same planes doing the same thing every single time.
I think the answer is to allow the most chice and variety. AG was on the right track with the huge mid war plane set and no silly and limiting Axis vs allied but I'm afraid that the idiotic perk sytem is a step toward taking the fun out of it for a majority. It is a step away from parity and variety.
Much as I like early war planes I realize that and RPS would leave a lot of people cold during early war times. Be nice to just have some early war fields in the canyons tho.
lazs
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Personally, I think HTC is more qualified to run their business than we are. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I'll respect their judgement.
Remember, the goal is not simply to increase the number of folks or the number of revenues. HTC must grow at a steady and manageable rate that will ensure profitability and stability. Growing too fast would kill them more quickly than a lack of growth would.
Luckily, this isn't a democracy. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
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Lephturn - Aces High Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome! (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/)
"Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know." - Michel Eyquem, seigneur de Montaigne. (1533–1592)
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Hmm - personally, I still don't see why some of you guys think that a hard FM is a realistic FM. This is often said about AH, but I for one am not convinced by it's 'realism'. I don't think people will flock to AH from other sims because of the FM. Don't get me wrong, the FM is the most important thing in any flightsim worth it's salt, but whether AH has this right compared to any future sim is a moot point. If any people here have applied to Beta test IL-2 and get the chance to fly it, we'll see what they say. But please don't think that AH's FM is the be all and end all of FMs.
Aside from that, AH does need some other arenas, and if they're based on RPS, so much the better. The MA IMHO is not much fun because there are certain planes that seem to rule the roost, and it's just too much like WB too. I also think it's turning into more of a Pacific-based sim too. Some variety would be nice (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by JG5_Jerry (edited 02-26-2001).]
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Originally posted by JG5_Jerry:
Hmm - personally, I still don't see why some of you guys think that a hard FM is a realistic FM.
Well, put it this way Jerry. There are at least two 5 year olds who fly Aces High and get kills in it.
So I hardly think this would qualify as a 'hard' FM (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11
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S! all
Someone made mention that RED BARON only has a handful of players now. Wrong. The Sierra corporate servers only have a few flyers because few people like the corporate Flight Model. There have been several other FM's created, which do away with much of the unrealistic aspects of the original FM. Plus there are improved graphics, additional planes, 2 seaters with rear firing guns, Balloons, tanks etc. And of course you have the option to personalize your aircraft in whatever colour you prefer. Most of the community flys these FM's in larger scale wars which last six months at a time. The last one I was in had 60+ people on the server at a time, and would have had more except the servers can't take more.
If you like upclose and personal dogfighting, RB is still tough to beat. And you don't pay $30.00 a month. (By the way, if you are interested in trying out the Sim, don't buy a copy of RED BARON II and think you will be able to patch it. You used to be able to do that, but the latest versions put out by Sierra are non-upgradable)
For more info, as well as all the patches and graphics upgrades, go to the 'Wings of Honour' site at:
http://www.wingsofhonor.com/index.shtml (http://www.wingsofhonor.com/index.shtml)
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Sounds Highly Illegal.
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I always have liked the way WB released planes out in order of first introduced in WWII. I myself wish AH did that also. My two cents, cling, ping.
-- senna
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"Well, put it this way Jerry. There are at least two 5 year olds who fly Aces High and get kills in it."
<waves> Who's the other? !
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Originally posted by Buzzbait:
S! all
Someone made mention that RED BARON only has a handful of players now. Wrong.
That was me Buzz, and this was a little over a year ago that I quit flying RB. Not because the corporate FMs were crap, but because of a host of other reasons. Back then the servers were never populated, even ones running player created FMs. The problem with that was the security had to be disabled. How do you know the guy you were up against had the same FM as you? After the 3rd "Great War" I gave up. I had no question in my mind that some of the german flyers I went up against were not using the proper FM, but were using the corporate FM. The Great War FMs had somewhat nullified the endless looping of the Albatros series when they were damaged, but several of them that I damaged would loop endlessly and I was unable to do anything about it. Yet others couldn't do the same, yet they were flying the same plane and had the same damage applied to them from my guns. Without the security enabled on the servers and with the known problems of "Oh I forgot to load the correct FM", RB3D quickly lost it, atleast for me. I gave my CD to a squaddie who still participates in it, but back when I quit there were maybe 10 or 15 guys on a server during peak times. Maybe since then more people have joined in since RB3D's cost went down to 9.95$ in store retail boxes.
Anyway, that wasn't the point to my argument against a 2 sided war.
-SW
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Forget all that, just charge $2.00 an hour (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Eagler
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The best way for AH to generate more revenue is to organise a continued delay to the launch of AW4.
Which by the way is due in '2 weeks', so that shouldnt be a problem.
There are now more AWers I know playing AH than playing AW and some of us have been playing AW for 5 or 6 years.
Trip