Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Sarge1 on May 18, 2002, 04:55:00 PM
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thinking about a mission . you get 10 guys to fly a formation of bombers to a field.. 40 bombers ..:eek: could get ugly...lol sounds like a interesting an fun time for all you bomber Sqdrns.. looking forward to this:D
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Sounds like people will have to intercept bomber now and stop the spitquake furballs for a few if they wanna keep flying.
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Did you read about what it takes to get and accurate hit with your carpet bombing? Lets wait and see if any of these buff guys can hit the broadside of a mountian:)
I'm dreading the 4X gunners your gonna get now. I mainly do 10-2 attacks and HO's and straight down from the top attacks on most buffs but I still get pings even doing that. Now if I get what used to be a small couple of pings that wouldn't have hurt me before.......well multiply those few small pings by 4 and you do the math. Attacking buffs is not going to be something you can plan on living through in my opinoin.
LLB OUT!!!!!!
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I'm thinking like this...
Buffs will kill you in the air, but buffs won't hit anything on the ground, so...
forget the buffs and lets furball :D
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Yes, Sunking, now it will require skill to be a bomber pilot in AH. This is gonna open a whole new chapter of whining... ;)
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Originally posted by SunKing
Sounds like people will have to intercept bomber now and stop the spitquake furballs for a few if they wanna keep flying.
Really sucks when people won't play the game your way, doesn't it?
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Here's a new thought for ya.
-Since drift is included in the bombs, the lower they fly the more accurate they are.
-10 people, 4 buffs each... 40 bombers. Fly 40 bombers at 5k to target.
-Field acks wont be able to shoot down one of the buffs, much less 40.
-40 bombers (say, lancs) dropping 9X1k and 1X 4k .. oooh thats 360 1k bombs and 40 4k'rs. Even if they miss the cumulative blast damage are almost guaranteed to obliterate the entire base. And at 5k you can easily guarantee a high accuracy.
Ssssoooo....feeling lucky punk? :) ;)
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This will be so cool! I cant wait... Imagine the damadge you can do... just 4 people 16 planes... 10 bombs each and 160 bombs on enemy base! I cant wait! and finnally more realistic bomb scopes and bombs that drift! :D
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I wonder what skill it would take to put the bombs on the mark from a 30k B17?
now you'll need skill to be an effective stratobuff :)
Bozon
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Well From pyro's post it may well be possible to set salvo to 2 and drop 2 hangars at a field per pass (if you are lined up properly to be able to hit two without flight path adjustments... Especially if you can adjust formations...
I like the sound of the new bombsight, its been awhile since AH has given me a new challenge which i am desperate for! +)
I just hope that the new buff model won't mean 30 buffs to flatten a field +)
SKurj
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This, in my opinion, is fundamental announcement that might change tactics and strategies in MA at a revolutionary(but acceptable to both Stratos and Quakers) scale. There are so many possibilities and variables, just thinking about them is enough to make one's head spin! :eek:
Please hear me out on my observations...
The Buffs:
1. Increased total payload
One pilot is in control of four buffs. Two~three people in a mission easily makes it 8~12 bombers in the air for a single destination! What they lost in quality, they make up with quantity: the true spirit of strategic bombing campaigns!
2. Increased effectiveness in defensive guns in quantity
8~12 bombers in a defensive box. Barging through it with intent of mutual destruction, as Pyro pointed out, will not work.
3. Changes in strategies
Like Sunking said, when 10~20 buffs are onthe way for your base, the defenders will have no choice but to intercept them, if they want to play and fly in that area. Taking your part in the mutually hostile sides of the bombers and the interceptors, like "the real stuff of WWII", will be important.
The Interceptors:
1. Quicker engagements to buffs
Loss of accuracy in bombing - with random drifts - will force the buffs to fly in a lot lower altitudes than former versions. There will be no 20k~30k buffs "smart-bombing" all the vital hangars with "laser-guided" accuracy. I expect to see most buffs near 8k~15k.
2. Decreased effectiveness in defensive guns in quality
The interrupt gear Pyro mentioned, will allow for a lot less effectiveness in defensive guns. Against a single Lancaster, a interceptor faces only two .50s in a 6 O'c attack. The skill level and frustratingly long time needed for a careful interceptor to plan his attack, is gonna be a lot less. Besides, if the 'interrupt gear' concept works in a universal level, guns on the 'drone' buffs will probably cease shooting when there is a friendly buff caught in the line of fire. And if the kill shooter option work this way too, multiple player controlled boxes will have to be careful when they spray away otherwise they will shoot down their own buffs(the buff the shooter is on).
3. Self-regulating factors of buff numbers
If we use Tac's notion as an example(40 bombers flying to target at 5k): that is going to be 10 people participating in a buff mission. But there are a certain factors that regulate the effectiveness of such brute force. For one thing, the aiming process with "Norden" style bomb sights is gonna take some time. If it works anything simular to the one I have seen in "B-17 Flying Fortress: the Mighty 8th(from Microprose)", it's gonna be a critically long time. . While the pilot is at the bombardier's sight, the whole "box" is virtually defenseless for that whole amount of time - unless he has another player on board to man guns for him.
This means, to effectively defend the formation and bomb at the same time, 10 people will have to pilot and bomb while another 10 mans guns for them. 40 bombers flying at 5k, in truth, will need 20 people, not 10, unless they want to be totally defenseless flying straight and level at certain speeds for a long time while the bombardier mans the "Nordens". When's the last time you see a 20-man buff mission?(Even when gunners can be lenient in enetring and exiting buffs like Pyro says, how many people have you seen willingly join another man's buff as a gunner?)
40 buffs at 5k piloted by 10 pilots without gunners, would be an ultimate "all-you-can-eat" buffet for interceptors while bombers are on their bombing run :) Like Pyro said, using buff formations to deadly efficiency is gonna take a lot of careful planning and hard team work. There ain't many people with this kind of coordination out there. Brute bomber missions where every newbie can up a buff, follow the formation, drop easily and spray around like mad, like we have seen before in previous versions, is just not gonna work.
.......
I think with 1.10, we're gonna have some realistic trends in strategies within ACCEPTABLE limits of gameplay. :D
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Kwessa you only need the lead pilot do the norden sight and if flown right by combat box you'll need probably only every 3rd Pilot do the norden sight so there will be loads of folks gunning :) especially as flying formation straight and level won't occupy all their time holding position
One problem i see is that currently friendly collisions are off so you could well have folks "stacking" their formations on top of each other .. thus creating a bulk of 4 times x planes in a very small spot.
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Duckwng, get your but away from this forum and fly with me! :D
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Kweassa you only need the lead pilot do the norden sight and if flown right by combat box you'll need probably only every 3rd Pilot do the norden sight so there will be loads of folks gunning especially as flying formation straight and level won't occupy all their time holding position
Duck, your assumption is also within the limits and boundaries of the 'self-regulating factors' :)
Theoretically, the pilot of the leading box can do all the "nord-ing", and the rest of the 'boxes' can just follow the orders and drop bombs at a certain given time - provided IF, and ONLY if ALL the other boxes are capable of flying in a formation at same heading, same speeds.
I don't think there are many people in buffs capable of doing that. I'm sure you flew missions and have seen how the 'normal' people have dang so much trouble just keeping the formation at the same heading, even when there are no interceptors around. Doing what you have described is not easy as it seems. It's gonna need people with a LOT of skill in formation flying - which is a pretty rare trait.
Otherwise, the 'normal cases' we will see, about 9 times out of 10, each people in control of the box will have to nord by themselves. Thus, effective self-regulation is in process. :)
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About the "stack-ups", I'm pretty sure HTC crew will have the killshooter setting working with the bombs too. You stack them up, your bomb hits a friendly buff and *bam* you're history. (unless you stack ALL buffs in the boxes at the exact same location) ;)
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Killshooter is on now for bombs, though I don't think they can go off until they hit the ground. Any friendly within the blast radius does trigger killshooter. I've been killed several times while bombing a field when a friendly makes a strafing pass through the blast. I think bombs 'pass through' any player objects in flight...
SKurj
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Originally posted by Kieran
Yes, Sunking, now it will require skill to be a bomber pilot in AH. This is gonna open a whole new chapter of whining... ;)
When is it than going to require "skill" to be afighter jock?
If bombs get dispersed then I think it's only fair that
the freaking headons get toned WAY down...
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Originally posted by SKurj
Well From pyro's post it may well be possible to set salvo to 2 and drop 2 hangars at a field per pass (if you are lined up properly to be able to hit two without flight path adjustments... Especially if you can adjust formations...
-SNIP-
SKurj
What would be the point? From the sound of things the
freaking hangars willbe regenerated by the time you
extend, rev, re-calibrate and make your next pass.
Being predominantly a buff pilot in the past, I for one
do not look forward to this new capability. I could see
it's place in a SCENARIO environment, but not in the MA.
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Hi
I keep reading about buffs in 1.10. And I like the new bomb sight and gunnery models.......
But, I must be one of only a few that thinks one guy flying a bombing box is B.S.
The other thing is what about frame rates and the 64 limit??? Its not going to take long to over run the 64 limit with this new system.
CAV
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GB, I should have been clearer. I was making a rebuttal comment to Sunking's elitist viewpoint. I don't care one way or another in reality, other than the fact he basically confirms everything Lazs ever said about the nature of buffers. In effect, the comment suggests a desire to ruin the fun of others (that is, people playing the game the way they wish to), not accomplishing a military objective as his posturing attempts to suggest.
I say "hooray" to the buffers. I say "boo" to a person who will do nothing more than fly around and knock down lean-to's for the express purpose of disallowing people from playing as they wish. If what has been written is true, the heavy bomber formations could be nigh invulnerable to single or even low-number attacks. This does suggest bombing with impunity, but we'll see what shakes out before getting all upset.
Personally, the most effective counter-measure will be waves of C-47s. This would be my tactic against buff-oons who just want some attention. ;)
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One Fariz mission will exceed the 64 plane limit without defenders even.
Maybe HT has coded a new visual engine for 1.10 aswell or we'll be having some WW2OL fights really soon.
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No skill to fly fighters? Wanna go in the DA and try that theory out?
HO's are no more leathal then dead 6 shots, but they are hell of alot easier to avoid, you just turn a little bit and the enemy won't have time to adjust due to the 600-1000mph closing speed.
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Originally posted by Gypsy Baron
When is it than going to require "skill" to be afighter jock?
If bombs get dispersed then I think it's only fair that
the freaking headons get toned WAY down...
....good call
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<> -Kieren
<> -Sunking
How is his statement elitist? It sounds like Sunking makes a valid point to me. The priority for intercepting bombers may have increased and the threat to the furballing may have increased. The only way we'll see is when it's implemented.
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"Really sucks when people won't play the game your way, doesn't it?"
Im just speculating.. Think about it... if that many bombers assualt you'll be forced to intecept them if you want to continue upping for that base..Don't get your panties in a bunch. I'ts a simple discussion of the woulda coulda senerios this patch could bring to our game. Btw what is "my way" of playing?
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Lots of bombers in tight formations should produce these:
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/cool/trails.jpg)
and these:
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/cool/b17_1.jpg) (http://www.kolumbus.fi/cool/b17_2.jpg) (http://www.kolumbus.fi/cool/b17_3.jpg)
:)
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Steven-
Easy. The reference to people who like to furball as "Spitquake" players, of course. Fine if a buffer wants to drop a base in order to facilitate capture. Fine if the buffer wants to have a more important role in the game. Not fine if a player uses buffs to deprive players of the game they wish to play.
'Course it is the MA, and all is fair. Lazs's words do come back to haunt you though, don't they? Island map, several people happily furballing away over the central fields, some lame buffer decides his attempts at generalship are threatened by the lack of attention paid to his obvious genius decides to ruin everyone's fun and up 4 Lancs and level the field in question. That'll show 'em.
Hey, I love the buff changes coming, in concept. I do think it will have the opposite effect, however. I think people will avoid the buffs more than ever, and will instead concentrate on more effective ways of countering; resupply. You will stop the furball long enough for the C47s to get in, that's about it. Worse, you will have your long, lonelier flight to deal with. Oh, the whining will come, don't worry...
Then again, maybe some of the buffers will be coming in at 10k. Why not? 40x.50s all focused to a point, what fighter can take that?
It comes down to this; some factions want to eliminate all forms of play they deem "unworthy". The buffs are not alone, but they have long been vocal about their disdain for furballing. They are about to be given a tool that is well capable of ending that type of play if wielded correctly, and I guess I am not too happy to see posts headed in that direction already.
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IMO one of the most memorable sights in WWII air combat is the sky full of bombers with fighters slashing through them...
this is great!
BRING ON THE CONTRAILS !!!!!!!
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Originally posted by SunKing
"Really sucks when people won't play the game your way, doesn't it?"
Im just speculating.. Think about it... if that many bombers assualt you'll be forced to intecept them if you want to continue upping for that base..Don't get your panties in a bunch. I'ts a simple discussion of the woulda coulda senerios this patch could bring to our game. Btw what is "my way" of playing?
"Your way" of playing is the way of playing you hope will come back (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=404933#post404933) when people are forced (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=404933#post404933)
to play a different way.
And, as Kieran mentioned, you use the word "spitquaker" which is as clear a sign of your mindset as any one could hope for.
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I'm worried that the change will bring us a load of ackstarrs.
If you're forced to attack the buff formations which on the other hand mean practically certain death to the attacker, it will be more dweeby than any furball ever.
I know undeth will have a field day at least.. guy already flies only b17's at ground level strafing everything he sees with the 8 guns. This will be extremely effective with more buffs. Even with 1 b17 he seems to manage a positive k/d ratio even though he can't do that with fighters. This is just one example.
All we can do is to hope HT has seen the problem and has addressed it somehow in 1.10.
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Can't wait to test myself against these changes, both as a buff pilot and an interceptor. And as the latter, I already know I'm going to be flying Luftie planes a lot more often!
I don't think that it's going to make for more people flying lower, however. I like the idea of the more realistic bombsight (that was one of the things I really liked about _Flying Fortress_). But from the description, remember that you have to set the drift for a certain length of time, against a stationery mark on the ground. If HTC is smart, (and there's no reason to think that they aren't!) they'll set the mark capabilities of the site so that travelling at too low an alt will mean it will be very hard, if not impossible, to mark against a ground target.
And bomb dispersal doesn't mean that they are going to fly all over the map, it just means that they are not going to fall in a perfectly straight line. HTC has said that the strikes will look pretty much like WW2 BDA photos, which means that they will still hit in reasonable proximity to your aim point.
So far, I'm not seeing any reason to come down from on high!
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
One Fariz mission will exceed the 64 plane limit without defenders even.
Maybe HT has coded a new visual engine for 1.10 aswell or we'll be having some WW2OL fights really soon.
I sure hope not Ripley... WW2ol has the 64 player object limit, and planes dissappear and reappear whenever that limit is reached...
SKurj
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my mindset! lol gosh.. some of you need a chill pill. You think I take offense, look at you. I mention one aspect of the game that I think is getting old "relentless furballing" and I'm classified lol. So much for having an opinion. I bomb, I GV, I play strat with my squad and I furball... didn't know I had "my way of playing" thought I was with the majority. cya in the game.
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Originally posted by Gypsy Baron
When is it than going to require "skill" to be afighter jock?
If bombs get dispersed then I think it's only fair that
the freaking headons get toned WAY down...
Really bad idea....
AW had frontal plane armor and it was totally stupid. All it did was to promote furballs and suspend immersion.
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Originally posted by SunKing
my mindset! lol gosh.. some of you need a chill pill.
You know, as the one who seems to care most in this thread about how others play, you're in no position to prescribe chill pills, Doctor Tightass. The state board is gonna have your license, you keep that up.:p
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I think that collisions on both ends is a good idea.
Not because it would diminish HO's... I mean, if you know the current system will make one of you die and the other one live, are you willing to take the 50-50 chance it will be you? I see no difference if it was a 100% chance you'd die from collision, both players will still end up in a HO situation.
I believe its a good idea because the current system CAN be abused on purpose. For example, I can make a buff player's FE think he collided with my fighter, blowing him up. But on my FE there was no collision, so im untouched. I've managed to make 4 buffs blow up one after another like this after I ran outta ammo on my 38. 'twas the day I figgered how to do it . And its sickening.
If both sides die in collision, neither side will have any advantage, thats the way I see it. If im gonna HO, ill HO dammit, I dont care if i'll collide. Just knowing that theres a 100% chance that we both will die in the HO only makes for a more interesting game of chicken. :)
Edit: Gah, this is what i get from reading 2 threads so close to each other.. mental overlap. what the heck.
On-topic:
I dont know what HTC has planned to address some of the possible abuses of the 4 buff system, so far I can see:
1) 5k alt mass buff formation not caring about field acks (they dont do now anyways) smashing a field to pieces and then acstarring it to death.
2) Ackstars. Up 4 buff flight of B17... and well, have 3 people do the same and your base is as good as saved. Similarly, a grass cuting buff formation blasting away at a field's defenses and vulching with the buff formation
3) Killshooter: Ermm.. if I dive in between the buff formation and the human gunner shoots his own planes as he follows my plane... does killshooter apply or do the bullets do no damage (Booo!) or do the bullets fly through the buffs in formation (*grrrr*)?
4) FPS : 5 people up 4 buffs each.. get them into close formations.. will it be warp gallore, making their buffs virtually untouchable.. or what?
5) Buff guns: We heard the shoot-through fuselage deal was fixed. But then again, now the buffers will have 4X the guns to shoot at, and if they allegedly work the same as our buffs now... what fighter will possibly get even close to such concentrated firepower? (since all bearable guns would fire at same time at same target).
6) Buff GUNNERS. Will the buff guns be modelled to die to a few hits (like ki67)? Or will they still be ROBOCOP units manning the guns (other buffs)?
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Originally posted by Taiaha
HTC has said that the strikes will look pretty much like WW2 BDA photos, which means that they will still hit in reasonable proximity to your aim point.
S!
"On the bombing range in peacetime in clear visibility, releasing from an altitude of 10.000 ft, circular error probability (the radius within which the best 50 per cent of bombs fall) was about 300 ft for the Norden and 775 ft for the Mk XIV bomb sight (Lancaster)"
It's a big circle when we're thinking about dropping from 20-25.000 ft. There seem to be quite difference in accuracy of those two bomb sight too.
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There will most likely still be a 64 plane limit. But unlike WW2Ol, the planes in front of you and behind you won't suddenly disappear... the ones further away from you will be dots (there's no way 64- even 32 planes will be within 3K of you all at once)...
In any event, the limit is there so you won't end up chugging along at a screaming 1 frame per second when you fly through large battles.
-SW
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From personal experience being within a 1000 feet (even in a building) of a 1000lb bomb is TOOOOO CLOSE. If the norden is acurate to 300ft and the lanc sight is accrate to 775 feet the blast should take out the buildings anyway.
I just put on a bomb school not long ago and we used 1/4lb of tnt to blow up a car and the blast seat (area) was 50 feet in diameter.
I have seen first hand bombing raids done in Viet Nam with 1k's and there was not a building or tree standing for 1/2 mile radius of the "string area" The blast area gets proportionally greater with the number of bombs. If it works this way in the 1.10, just 4 b26's will level a medium field.
As a side note you cannot lay on the ground and stay in contact with the ground at all times if you are within 5 miles of the blast area of a B52 raid ( and before the flaming starts, I know that has nothing to do with Aces High, but someone might like to know) you can actually feel the multiple blast waves on your skin.
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Nice info AAC :)
I've always thought that 2500 lbs is too much to bring down a hanger, it's all for game purpose though, would be pretty boring to have 2 fighter bombers come in low alt and take out 10 hangers, would render buffs totally useless.
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Has anyone from HTC said how 234s will fit in the new bomber scheme? Will they stay the same and be exempt from bomb drift?
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Gypsy
the way hangars are currently modelled they cannot be resupplied and they rebuild in 15 minutes regardless of base or facility status
SKurj
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And, Wilbus, no fighter was ever rendered unflyable due to the lack of an aluminum shed to store it. ;)
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Originally posted by SKurj
Gypsy
the way hangars are currently modelled they cannot be resupplied and they rebuild in 15 minutes regardless of base or facility status
SKurj
Yes, I'm aware of this...and that's why I rarely even attempt
to kill hangars, other than VH's...my statement way up-thread
was made with the rebuild time in mind. With the new "model"
for the bombsights it will be even more pointless to attempt
to kill hangars, which is fine with me. I just don't want to have
to dick around with this "calibration" scheme...it doesn't add
anything worthwile to the "game", IMO. However, that said,
if this 4Xbuff stuff serves to REDUCE the landgrab crap that
is the current focal point of the "game" and increases the
ACM aspect, then I'm all for it...and that comes from someone
who has been predominantly an online buff driver since
AW SVGA days...
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>>Sounds like people will have to intercept bomber now and stop the spitquake furballs for a few if they wanna keep flying<<
Hehe, it also may mean that buffing will require more skill than has been required up to this point.
Interceptors will have to plan their attacks more, and a keener approach to tactics and strategy will be required by all. Those who want to furball can still do so, and if they want to continue this, they can fly up and remove the annoying buffdweebs who want to spoil their fun.
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>>but they are hell of alot easier to avoid, you just turn a little bit and the enemy won't have time to adjust due to the 600-1000mph closing speed.<<<
Hmmm, then why take the HO in the first place?
I fought a spit last night one v one (believe it or not) in the MA (I was in an FW A5). We had a good fight going on until he evidently got impatient and turned to me to go for the HO shot. I knew he was going for it, I also knew I had a better chance of avoiding his shot and getting myself in better position if I simply climbed at the last minute because I had alt on him. He began firing at 850 yds, I then fired and pulled up just before we merged. he got hits and I lost my engine; he lost his plane and had to walk back, I glided home and landed.
He could have tried to avoid the HO and kept fighting and using acm but he got lazy or impatient and went for the easy approach; it cost him.
Yeah the HO was legitimately used in RL but, not as much as it is in AH.
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>>>I say "boo" to a person who will do nothing more than fly around and knock down lean-to's for the express purpose of disallowing people from playing as they wish.
How is this different from spitquakers who hang out at high alts over their bases waiting to dive down on "fluffs" when they go to the norden? Even the act of furballing is disallowing someone from playing as they wish. I've been in attack planes before and been jumped by n1k's who don't want me to drop my bombs on their base. Its a game and people will develop strategies to have fun their own way, which might up set other players.. oh well, thems the breaks.
I do think this may go along way to giving Lazs what he wants, the end of the bomber in AH. After flying for an hour to gain alt, having 4 bomber deaths recorded because you went to the bomb site, leaving your mini-squad undefended may cause bomber pilots to shy away from formations. If that happens, then what you have left is an under-defended bomber that can't hit anything. Hopefully HTC will at least implement a warning for the buff pilot that tells them when a fighter is attacking and from where. The same result a bomber pilot would have had during WWII when 1 of his gunners spotted a con.
One last comment, I like to fly all the planes in AH, drive the GVs and boats. I don't really enjoy referring to fighter pilots as spit quakers or pilots with balls of fur but those same spitquakers can't seem to get enough of referring to bomber pilots as "fluffs" so why not? The funnest thing about flying "fluffs" on "milk runs" is hearing Lazs complain.
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Originally posted by Gypsy Baron
When is it than going to require "skill" to be afighter jock?
If bombs get dispersed then I think it's only fair that
the freaking headons get toned WAY down...
GB,
Ever stop to think maybe the fighter pilot might use some skill to avoid a HO? An even stranger thought: avoiding a HO and using some ACM in the process can give you an immediate advantage in a fight. A difficult concept to grasp, I know.
Do you really think that lowering realism by putting a deflector shield in front of planes is going to increase dogfighting skills? I think not.
BM
BTW has anyone stopped to think about the possibilities opening up for Ackstar dweebery? Think about it: 1 dweeb, 4 buffs flying through a furball, spraying at every fighter that gets within 2k. Tragic.
[edit] Read through rest of thread and yes, people have considered this. D'oh!
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Originally posted by Gypsy Baron
I just don't want to have to dick around with this "calibration" scheme...it doesn't add anything worthwile to the "game", IMO.
It only attempts to add a measure of realism, guess that isn't worthwhile to some.
However, that said, if this 4Xbuff stuff serves to REDUCE the landgrab crap that is the current focal point of the "game" and increases the ACM aspect, then I'm all for it...and that comes from someone who has been predominantly an online buff driver since AW SVGA days...
Taken from the AH website help page:
"Capturing territory through the use of air, land and sea power is the objective of Aces High."
That "landgrab crap" is the focal point of the game because HTC want it to be so. All of their developments will obviously be intended to further this. Personally I'm surprised that a dedicated buff driver such as yourself isn't happy with attempts to make your experience more realistic.
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Zipity, you did note I offered two sides to the equation? You know, "hooray for those that use the buffs for strat, boo to those that do it to make sure people play the way the buffer wants them to"? Certainly you have seen the boards peppered with people making comments like, "this will end the Spitquake".
Hey, I don't believe "fluffer" is any more fair a comment than "spitquake", but you have to admit the intent of some is to eliminate furballing from the game. These are the people Wotan and I specifically are referring to, not the guys who simply want a viable tool to use in the arena. One thing you can say about Lazs is, however disaffected he is about bombing, he ignores it in game. He isn't looking for ways to ruin it for buff lovers. He may call them names here, but you don't hear his mouth running nonstop on the buffer in game, and you certainly don't see him going to some back field looking for guys making sandwiches with their buffs on autopilot. He won't come after you at any altitude, he simply ignores you. And, as Fatty pointed out, some buffers aren't satisfied to ignore the furballers, they have to make sure furballing doesn't happen.
So, how many furballers want to eliminate buffs from the game? OK, I'll give you Lazs- how many besides that? Now, how many buffers have mentioned ending furballing in the last few days since the announcement of the new buff formations? See it?
Furballer = Lemme alone and let me play.
Buffer = Why dontcha play the way I wantcha to?
Furballer = I wanna kill stuff.
Buffer = WE HAVE TO DEFEND 27 NOW!!!
Furballer = Damn, they knocked down the radar. Oh, well, who needs 'dar.
Buffer = Haha! We knocked your resources out! Enjoy the dark for the next 4 hours!
Furballer = What are resources?
Buffer = I hate this side, no one is ever organized. What a bunch of losers!
Furballer = That fight was the most fun I've had all day. Thanks guys!
Buffer = I'm defecting, you guys are hopeless.
Furballer = Thanks for letting us know you're leaving, since we didn't even know you were here.
Buffer = This game sux! 2 hour flight for what? I don't wanna waste all that time and effort to hit undefended resources, score big points, and return safely. This game needs realism! (Think about this for a few seconds, from an historical perspective).
Furballer = They're hitting our base? MMmm, delivery!
Buffer = All those guys down there ever fly are Nikkis, Spits, and La7s.
Furballer = Hmmm, I've managed a 4:1 in my 190A5, let's try the F6F for a tour...
Enough rambling...
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I know what planes I will up when I see a bunch of low buffs.
Can we say Yak-9 and Hurr D :D
I am also going to try and perfect the bombing at alt, so I have to say that not everyone is going to do the low alt ackstaring you are saying. I personally want to do it like it was done, around 20 to 25k. So what if I miss a few times, it only takes practice to get it right. The good part is that if I miss I don't end up killing a bunch of kids in a school or hospital like it did when they missed in RL. :eek:
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Originally posted by Don
Yeah the HO was legitimately used in RL but, not as much as it is in AH.
Says who? It was pretty much standard operating procedure for US pilots in the Pacific theater.
D
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Sheeesh, the horror of the unknown!
Nobody knows quite how the new buff formations will affect MA play. Guess what. Nobody is going to figure it out until we get the release and I doubt HTC will be perfectly happy with the very first cut so some stuff may get adjusted (like how much ordnance it takes to kill a hangar). Buffs might be much better at taking out fields or much worse. Personally I hope level bombing is realistic enough that they never sink another moving ship and that they are pretty useless against pinpoint targets. But what I want and what we end up with in the MA are not necessarily related. I think I will wait and see what the effects are before I get too disapointed.
Hooligan
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zip said..... "I do think this may go along way to giving Lazs what he wants, the end of the bomber in AH. After flying for an hour to gain alt, having 4 bomber deaths recorded because you went to the bomb site, leaving your mini-squad undefended may cause bomber pilots to shy away from formations. If that happens, then what you have left is an under-defended bomber that can't hit anything. "
One can allways hope.. I would settle for what hooligan said but zippities vision is heartening.
lazs
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
One Fariz mission will exceed the 64 plane limit without defenders even.
May be. We had 45 b26 raid earlier, would be 180 planes in next version :)
Though actually I doubt it will happen, at least very rearly. Usually number of participants are limmited in each mission depending on task, because it is not wise to use 50 people where 10 will do fine.
Fariz