Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Wilbus on May 19, 2002, 04:44:20 AM
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Or unperk all other planes but the 262.
Flying around in a Tempest, f4u or Ta152 an LA7 comes along and catches you (almost tempest atleast) you realize, "Dang! I pay for mine".
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Apart from the cannons I've always found the La7 very similar to the Tempest. It's a tough little bugger and a fast one at that and I quite agree that it should be perked.
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Basically agreed, but IMHO its not needed to be perked, should have lower ENV points, around 5.
Why n1k and spit9 have 10 env or so and 15 for la7?It's hard to see, at least for me.
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I agree, perk the LA-7!
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Lowering the ENY wouldn't do much difference I think, it's a perk plain without perks as it is, fly it and you have no need for perks except the 262.
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I agree, perk the LA-7!
[/SIZE]
AMEN !!!
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If you keep perking those high end planes I will run out of targets for my hurricane I. Please do not.
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at 20 k La7 out turn out climb my Ta152 , just wonder how the tini wings perform so god so high
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Am I the only person here who likes their opponents to be in good planes?
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I agree.
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Yes!
La7
Pros:
-Can out run any non-perk plane
-Can catch up to most prop-perk planes on the Deck
-If the plane isnt know for turning (like the spit and niki is know for turning) the la7 will out turn it
-3 of the most deadlist 20mm's IMO
-Fast Accel
-Rolls decent
-Has the armor of a pazner
Cons:
-Compresses easy
Not too many cons that i can find for the la7
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Originally posted by Fatty
Am I the only person here who likes their opponents to be in good planes?
No
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Cons:
-Compresses easy
Not too many cons that i can find for the la7
You can do better than that.
-Small ammo load
-Need to close under 300yds for ammo to be effective
-Can't run anything down over 10K
There are more, but then I won't spoil the fun. Better perk the Yak while your at it, I have problems killing them in an LA7
:)
Gunner
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Originally posted by minus
at 20 k La7 out turn out climb my Ta152 , just wonder how the tini wings perform so god so high
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/models/charts/la7climb.gif)
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/models/charts/ta152hclimb.gif)
It does? Doesnt look like it to me.
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Well, as long as the TA152 has got wep it climbs about 300-400 feet better at 20k, without wep it climbs slower.
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Darn it Ammo...dont you know you shouldnt cloud a good whine with facts. You keep this up and Pyro may have to ban you from the boards. :D
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Well actually sling, like I said, only if the TA152 has got wep (10 minutes max) it will be able to outclimb the LA7 at 20k, and then only with about 300 feet per minute which is FAR from enough to actually extend from a plane on your 6.
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fly the 109 w/ 150 20mm rounds, you wont think the ammo load it too small then ;)
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yes and no......
i hate the LA7, i get killed by it alot. Even on the deck in a Spit5 (my choice of ride.) While in a buff, if i see an La7 i know im dead, but so is the La7. They always make those tarded gut runs from 6 low, and just start spraying. They always die, but usually take enough of my B17 to send it down or make it easy meat for the higher 109s.
This is the EXACT same thing that the C Hog pilots used to do.
So yes perk it just like they did the the C hog, and for the same reason.
The reason you ask?
The La7 (and the unperked chog) was an unskilled pilot's ride of getting a quick kill, and a quick death. And there is the "no" side of the argument.
How many times have you been fighting an La7 and thought.."oh nice move, this guy knows his ACM, or that is a damn good pilot"......rare to never. Sure an La7 will enter a furball and get a kill or two, but almost never make it home. That is just the kind of plane it is (or rather the pilot.) And yes it is fast and can outrun alot of planes, but the pilot will almost always flip and come back to die if the plane that is chasing it turns away.
If the La7 was perked, the majority of people who fly it would just on to the next plane that netted an easy kill and no chance for rtb...eg the N1k. Then the Spit9, then the etc etc.
My point? Let the baby have its bottle.
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Question..What is the better turner at 15k..Tempest or La7?
I would guess La7 but the Tempest might be a slightly better climber..Anyone know?..
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la7 is actually a jet with a prop to hide the jet side....that thing climbs and turns really well at all alts. i think it should be perked as for the ENY values i hear that's based on how often a plane is used so apparently the N1k is more popular btw the N1k needs to have its hidden counterotating prop removed so it behaves like a single engine fighter should in stalls instead of remaining a stable gun platform.
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Perk the La7 blah blah blah blah, same lame'o argument, blah blah blah. Perk something with poor performance over 10K, terrible fuel range, terrible ranged guns, bad stall, terrible views, not a great turner, etc... Why not discuss perking the P51D at the same time, great performance over 10K, excellent guns, excellent range, excellent views, excellent air-ground loadout.
I don't think it's the plane, I think it is the way people are fighting them. Too many people wait too long or get stupid and try to fight the La7 at the wave-tops.
-Soda
The Assassins.
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I don't have a problem with LA7's, but I understand how its unfair to have it free when its just as fast as perked rides.
Here's what I think :
1) Perk La7 cheap, like the C-Hog. But since its ammo load and guns arent exactly like the C-Hog, make it be 2 perks cost.
2) In the same spirit, the 190D9 and Typhoon should be perked at the same 2 perk cost. They are both just as fast in both top speed and accel and even better armed than La7 (I wonder how many will try to come with an excuse to not perk those 2 heh).
Same icons for the planes would be nice. LA5 and LA7 would be "Lav" , F4U's would be F4U, 190's would read 190 (including Ta152), 205/202=Machi, etc, etc.
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Oh no, please don't perk it !
How else could I build up perkies unless I vulch them in A-8 ?
La-7 is a fantastic plane, but all I see are dweebiest of dweebs flying it, thus ruining a good plane.
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I think Tac's idea is good, throw in the Dora, Tiffie AND the P51 aswell, all about the same, perk them cheap, all at 2 or 3 perks.
Like I said, and Tac said after me, it's quite unfair to pay 60 perks for something just to have a free LA7 outrun you.
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oh nooooooo shut it Tac! perk the mission plane??!?!! argggggggghhhh!! :) hmmm d9 you say? never flown it i'll look into this 190 dora :D well if the tiffie is to be perked that radiator prob would have to be fixed first. the whole plane seems to be a radiator oh btw the yak too! think the yak is worse any hit is a radiator hit on the yak :( well tiffie can't be perked coz umm it's not a late model plane and as i understand it those are the planes that are perked coz they umm unbalance the game yeah that's it :)
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deleted
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Im really quite surprised the whole perk system hasnt matured more.
When the CT had a full plane set with most all planes given some perk value it had a very nice effect (plus it brought in 60-70 pilots). Granted, the CT basically became a mini-ma but it was a blast.
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My P38 got 25 of them for only 7 deaths
Them dweebs are mostly an easy kill, don't run for them fight em.
I can't find a reason to complain except that it's alot flown just like the nik and spit.
Spit nik and la 7 pilots got no imagination and go with the crowd
they are just unoriginal flying dweebs.
But i wonder why these little planes are so good at high alt i mean turning and energy saving like for example the spit still is able to turn around a long winged p38 and catch up with it
:eek:
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that's what the spit was designed for and that's one of the reasons it has only 1 flap setting. it's such a great turner besides Bug you should know better :p "out turn those you can and out run those you can't" i believe was the quote :D take the spit vertical....i just realised that i'm giving advice to someone who is waaaaaaay better than me air-to-air lol my apologies can i get a ride along? :)
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The reason the guns are so killer is that they are 23mm. NOT the 20mm we see displayed. Think IL2 Type 3 cannon in athe nose. If you use 2 you are useing a La7 from Moscow and if you use the 3 cannon armiment you arte useing a diffrent place where it was biult.:p (my spelling sucks)
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Not to mention outturning and outclimbing the TA152 at 36k+ Bug (spit).
As for the LA7, it turns pretty well and many planes can't really outturn it, nor can you outrun it, I really don't see a reason to perk an TA152 (which is worse in EVERY aspect) not even the F4u-4 and Spit 14 should be perked compared to it.
People say it sucks above 10k? Does it? No it doesn't, it's down low where it is best though and it is down low that 95% of all fights are but a LA7 can easily get up to 20k and B&Z from there. Yes most pilots that fly them suck (some are actually good pilots and can fly other planes aswell) however to fly a perk plane, bug out and get away from 5 enemies (which is the way it should be with a perk plane "get everybody on you but be able to run somewhat") and then have this LA7 come in and catch you and make you turn. You just realise that his is free and faster.
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Thx Kaz u make me blush now :D but the spit wich loses it's power above something like 20K is very able to out climb my P38 at 25K and above . When u do the slightest climb (after u see ur gaining distance) those high manouvrables gonna outclimb u at these altitudes. I just think it's a bit strange since the P38 and Ta are large wingspans wich should help at higheraltitudes think off the U2 low it's not a turner but high up it's doing it maybe better than a falcon. Iheard pilots found it a very manouvrable aircraft at 60000ft or so.
Also the P38 and certainly the Ta got more engine powerhigh up there.
Just my thoughts about it.
Wilbus the Ta-152 is beautiful and to expensive it should cost what about the Chog is .
I totally agree on that part
:cool:
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Aye Bug!
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Perk the La7?
LOL! No.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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No, because it could never kill you unless you made a mistake I'm sure. Just ask Nath.
Il-2 is modelling it on the expansion. Can't wait to compare flight models.
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Originally posted by Wilbus
Well, as long as the TA152 has got wep it climbs about 300-400 feet better at 20k, without wep it climbs slower.
Wil, man the Lagg doesnt even have an effective wep at that altitude. And, it is a slug up there. My squad looks at 20k+ la7's as snacks in the Jug. The TA is a premeir plane at those alt's and higher. Its no comparison. Its total BS IMO. The Lagg is awesome at low altitude, where its supposed to be, and likely where 99.9% of the fights you and I meet them at. The TA is not the jewel you would like it to be at low alt's, however I doubt it is bad as I have have gathered. And...to counter your statement, the TA has an extremely effective WEP, that outlast most others on other AC. Even if one found himself in a duel at 20k+ with an LA7 and him in a TA, you hold all the cards. Turn, speed, climb... This is the fallacy behind minus's statement. (I think?? its hard to tell what he is saying alot of times)
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My squad looks at 20k+ la7's as snacks in the Jug.
Very true and a very good example I found of obvious solid code, verified when I tried one up there. They simply are great below 10K.
More stuff about WWII air combat you learn in AH, not the casual enthusiast learns on the History Channel.
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Originally posted by Creamo
More stuff about WWII air combat you learn in AH, not the casual enthusiast learns on the History Channel.
Wow...what a susinct statment....The most addictive thing about this game to me is what I learn from it
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La7 is a low alt plane, no doubt. At 20k it is nothing but a target. 0-8k it shines. Keeps verticals as good as 109g10, can prove its own in turnfights, has lot of ammo and very good punch, and if in trouble can run.
Fariz
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BUG_EAF322, Kaz,
The Spit's wing loading is much, much less than that of the P-38. Long wings mean jack squat in and of themselves. Long wings typically mean lower wing loading that shorter wings, but that comparison is only reliable if you stick to the same airframe.
BTW, I recommend that you read up on Spits. The F.Mk IX, HF.MK IX and Mk XIV all have very good high altitude performance, your P-38 doesn't rule the roost alone. The Spit IX in AH is the F.Mk IX, not the common LF.Mk IX.
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I thought the premise of perking planes was based on how unbalancing the plane is/would be in the MA. So then the real question is, is the La7 'Unbalancing'???
Lets look back at what statistics HTC used to decide to perk the chog. It racked up over 30% of the Air-to-Air kills in the MA. That was considered unbalancing and so it was perked.
So whats the stats on the La7??? Anyone?
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All I see here is a witch hunt. "BURN THE LA7! BURN IT!"
If you put down your torches for a minute you will realise that the La7 is a good plane but not a great one. If you get killed by one it's usually because YOU messed up, not just because it's an La7.
"What else does wood do?" "It floats!"
"What else floats?" "Small stones!"
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It says ;
La-7 has 14169 Kills
All models have 264765 Kills of All
So La7 has 18.7% of all kills... correct?
Fully agreed with Tac
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Originally posted by m0m0yama
So La7 has 18.7% of all kills... correct?
Uhhh... no.
It has about 5.4% of all kills. Care to rethink your position?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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LA7 suck, only fast. LA7 pilot is idiot! No perk!
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http://www.innomi.com/planes.php
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urgh
I see, well I was napping... yes... maybe...
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Looking at the stats, I can only draw one conclusion...
PERK THE CHUTE! :D
(I'd still like to see the p51d and la7 at 2-3 perks)
Am I wrong in my belief that the spit14 and the p-51d were both put into service at roughly the same time?
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Wil, man the Lagg doesnt even have an effective wep at that altitude. And, it is a slug up there. My squad looks at 20k+ la7's as snacks in the Jug. The TA is a premeir plane at those alt's and higher. Its no comparison. Its total BS IMO. The Lagg is awesome at low altitude, where its supposed to be, and likely where 99.9% of the fights you and I meet them at. The TA is not the jewel you would like it to be at low alt's, however I doubt it is bad as I have have gathered. And...to counter your statement, the TA has an extremely effective WEP, that outlast most others on other AC. Even if one found himself in a duel at 20k+ with an LA7 and him in a TA, you hold all the cards. Turn, speed, climb... This is the fallacy behind minus's statement. (I think?? its hard to tell what he is saying alot of times)
Ammo, ya beat your self up now. First you post the charts in here then you say LA7 hardly has any wep at 20k anyway.
LA7 HAS NO WEP at 20k WHAT SO EVER BUT it's climb speed Without Wep is quite much better then a TA152's climb speed Without wep at the same alt, ONLY if the TA152 has got Wep left it can outclimb the LA7 at 20k, just look at the charts YOU posted.
Ta152 has got the same amount of wep as all LW planes (except very early 1940 planes) in the game, that is 10 minutes. The Jumo Engine in AH takes longer to cool down though.
The REAL LIFE engine could be run for 10 minutes, with pauses of 5 minutes, run 10 minutes, pause 5 etc UNTIL the Water Methanol injection was out so here some of the LW planes lose an advantage but that's not what this is about. Nor is this about the LA7's high alt abaility, becasue as you've said, it does suck up there, not to mention how fun those planes are to fight at 30k (yes I have seen one up there).
Have I said I want the TA152 to be a Jewel at low alts? Didn't think so, definatly not anywhere the past year have I said that. The TA152 deck speed (H modell) we have is about the same as in AH as it should be, not untill over 25k does it really shine and yup there spits still outclimb and outturn them so why is the TA152 Perked? Don't give me any crap about production numbers please.
One more thing, the TA152, with Wep and 25% fuel does 460mph (exactly after 10 minutes test) at 41.000 feet, this is 12mph too slow.
At 31.000 feet it should do around a 460mph acodring to the AH charts and it does (461Mph). AH charts show it alot slower at 41k then it is in AH but even 460 is too slow.
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I must fly a different La 7 to the ones that can out turn and out fight stuff at 20K.
If I pull an ACM kill (rather than just a bounce)in the La 7 (against Spits, NIK2's, 109's, 51's Ki's, 38's, Corsair's, cats)at any thing over 15k then I usually think I have done rather well..... (depending upon the skill shown by my opponent).
The La7 can climb well, it can reach fast speeds at higher alts.
But its power/wing/weight ratio is all for low alt stuff...... it drains e thru manouvers at a rate hardly matched by any other fighter (bar the La 5FN)and its only its power/weight ratio which allows it to accelarate out of manouvers lower down.
I can appreciate that it is infuriating to "win" the encounter thru superior ACM only to have the opponent run away as soon as you have the upper hand........ la 7's do do this ..........its what they are good at..so are 51's,Typhoons.
Its lethality range does seem poor...... I am not sure whether this is myth, actual or just my bad marksman ship (which has always been bad) if actual I wonder where the idea of the Shvak having a shorter range came from.......
I do not see the La7 unbalancing the arena.......... either interms of numbers, effectiveness or its influence on the land grab......
Tilt
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Originally posted by Wilbus
Ammo, ya beat your self up now. First you post the charts in here then you say LA7 hardly has any wep at 20k anyway.
LA7 HAS NO WEP at 20k WHAT SO EVER BUT it's climb speed Without Wep is quite much better then a TA152's climb speed Without wep at the same alt, ONLY if the TA152 has got Wep left it can outclimb the LA7 at 20k, just look at the charts YOU posted.
Ta152 has got the same amount of wep as all LW planes (except very early 1940 planes) in the game, that is 10 minutes. The Jumo Engine in AH takes longer to cool down though.
The REAL LIFE engine could be run for 10 minutes, with pauses of 5 minutes, run 10 minutes, pause 5 etc UNTIL the Water Methanol injection was out so here some of the LW planes lose an advantage but that's not what this is about. Nor is this about the LA7's high alt abaility, becasue as you've said, it does suck up there, not to mention how fun those planes are to fight at 30k (yes I have seen one up there).
Have I said I want the TA152 to be a Jewel at low alts? Didn't think so, definatly not anywhere the past year have I said that. The TA152 deck speed (H modell) we have is about the same as in AH as it should be, not untill over 25k does it really shine and yup there spits still outclimb and outturn them so why is the TA152 Perked? Don't give me any crap about production numbers please.
One more thing, the TA152, with Wep and 25% fuel does 460mph (exactly after 10 minutes test) at 41.000 feet, this is 12mph too slow.
At 31.000 feet it should do around a 460mph acodring to the AH charts and it does (461Mph). AH charts show it alot slower at 41k then it is in AH but even 460 is too slow.
Back up there bud-- My refering to the TA 152 was to contredict Minus's post. You alluded to that comparison. I thought this post was about the LA=7, and my original post was to contridict minus's false post. I am not contredicting myself on anything, the fact is if you are in a LA-7 at any alt and push "p" on your keyboard, then you hear the apparent increase in power, whereas according to the charts, in the LA-7 the WEP is ineffective. I hope you understand my point. I could care less about a campaign to unperk the TA, or whatever else LW enthusiasts want with it. Again, I was refering to Minus's post. Please don't argue for the sake of it.
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Originally posted by -ammo-
in a LA-7 at any alt and push "p" on your keyboard, then you hear the apparent increase in power,
I used to find this confusing........ if you watch the manifold pressure the pressing of p does nothing above 8500 ft. However you have increased engine revs from 2400 to 2500 hence more noise(and more engine heat). This is as it should be.
Whats is missing is the fact that the super charger speed changes at approximately 8500 ft (1st stage) and 14500ft (2nd stage). But then AH does not (and need not) model sounds etc for super chargers that are not WEP biasing.
Tilt
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La7 is only excelent below 10k, ok, and what? If you find one above you at any alt you are in serious problems, if you find one coalt and above 10k, if needed, the La7 will set the fight lower and then you will be in serious problems too. If you find one lower than you, he will dive till below 5k and you will be in serious problems again, and so on. Being so uber at low alts is much more important than being uber at hi alts, unless you are intercepting stratobuffs.
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ammo if something false then is it you !
LA7 outurn and out climb and out E perform Ta152 and you cant change this , yes if la7 climb on the other side of map like ta152 then yes , Ta 152 climb beter but if neer you got seroius problem , nothing hold E like La7
before you try post craps about False stuf first try the Ta152 to fly vs any medium or decent stick in la7 , then you will anderstud
!punt !
i not play anymore AH but stil suport and pay my acount
waiting for something to change
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Not arguing for the sake of it, trying to make you understand what the TA152 is and what the LA7 is since you so much wanna compare these two. Fact is, push P in any plane at ANY alt and you'll hear a increase in the engine, doens't matter if it gives you more power or not so that's just a bad thing to bring in.
Like I said before, LA7 still outclimb s ALOT of things at 20k as long as those things don't use WEP, if those other planes USE Wep the LA7 can still keep up with them.
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La7 ammo near F4U-C ammo (ok 1 less cannon, but he still killing with 1 ping at wings), range near same F4U-C range (without DT's). Out run, out climb, out turn a F4U-C. Better armour than 99% planes (YES IT'S TRUE, russian wood really efficient)
Why is not perked if it's THE BETTER PLANE under 15k (who said 10k, under 10k is untouchable, since 15k still being a killing machine)?
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Well, guns about as effective as F4u C yes but 'only' half the ammo (even a bit less then half)
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Originally posted by minus
LA7 outurn and out climb and out E perform Ta152
nothing hold E like La7
Conversely I would say nothing looses e like an LA 7! with the proviso that this is for consideration whilst under manouver at higher alts.
I cannot comment about the Ta152...i hardly ever fly it but I would have to dis agree with any notion that the LA7 is e efficient during manouver at higher altitudes.(which is where the Ta152 "should" excel)
just try flat turning with other AC at 16,17,18,19,20K+ when both start at the same speed and alt. (get them to pull identical G)
You will soon see that the LA 7 is decelerating faster than the other..........
Now try looping at those altitudes with the same start speeds........ again match the G at the bottom...... unless you can get the loops into the La 7's low alt power band it will again fall behind.
Any manouver out of the plain of thrust on an La7 is very expensive in e . The only efficient manouver should be roll (little wings) and I must say I do not see roll effecting any of AH's AC (with respect to e loss) greatly.
With respect to turn rate it can pull very tight high speed turns it certainly is a bird for high speed ACM.......... problem is that at higher alts it gets no more than 2 of these types of manouvers before its higher e loss (assuming the opponent has gone thru equal turns) has tipped the balance against it.
Tilt
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One thing I don't get....
If a plane is only uber low it shouldn't be perked....
lets look at Ta152... its only uber high...
La7 at 5k is the equivalent of the Ta152 at 30k...
just a thought +)
I feel the game needs more cheap perk rides, and the La7 is a prime candidate. What other russian plane would be a perk? Yak3? with its ammo load lol... May as well give the VVS a perk ride, a 5-10 perk La7.
SKurj
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The reason low-alt uber planes should be perked IMO is that MOST, almost all fights take place bellow 10k.
That an LA7 outclimb many things at 20k is true, check it charts, although it doesn't have wep it climbs good there and accelerates good.
My experience tells me it doesn't hold E good there though nor turn good above 20k, only fought against it once up there though.
Uhmm, "fought" he was at 25k, he tried normal uber loop but soon found out a TA152 at 25k was a bit too much for him, he went vertical from 25k to 5k and I didn't feel like following.
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I've fought LA7's at 25k, they are just as dangerous as a 205 or not-so-fast P-51.
They dont accelerate as fast as they do down below...but then again, neither does any other fighter up high (except for d9, 109g10 and ta152).
However, the la7 up there still has its impressive dive and top speed and zoom capability.In all, I'd put the 15k+ La7 in par with the 190A5/A8... dive and zoom up, dive and zoom up. If they fight gets low, then la7 gains even more advantages (and they will dive to the deck if in trouble).
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Originally posted by Wilbus
Not arguing for the sake of it, trying to make you understand what the TA152 is and what the LA7 is since you so much wanna compare these two. Fact is, push P in any plane at ANY alt and you'll hear a increase in the engine, doens't matter if it gives you more power or not so that's just a bad thing to bring in.
Like I said before, LA7 still outclimb s ALOT of things at 20k as long as those things don't use WEP, if those other planes USE Wep the LA7 can still keep up with them.
obviously, we arent communicating. Sorry aboiut that.
Minus blurted at 20 k La7 out turn out climb my Ta152 , just wonder how the tini wings perform so god so high
I responded with the charts that clearly refute him.
You respond Well, as long as the TA152 has got wep it climbs about 300-400 feet better at 20k, without wep it climbs slower.
Ahh yes, if you have used up 10 minutes of very good wep, the TA loses one of its advantages over the LA7, by 400 FPM.
I respond with more stuff. bla, bla, bla.
you respond to my stuff with
Ammo, ya beat your self up now. First you post the charts in here then you say LA7 hardly has any wep at 20k anyway.
LA7 HAS NO WEP at 20k WHAT SO EVER BUT it's climb speed Without Wep is quite much better then a TA152's climb speed Without wep at the same alt, ONLY if the TA152 has got Wep left it can outclimb the LA7 at 20k, just look at the charts YOU posted.
Ta152 has got the same amount of wep as all LW planes (except very early 1940 planes) in the game, that is 10 minutes. The Jumo Engine in AH takes longer to cool down though.
The REAL LIFE engine could be run for 10 minutes, with pauses of 5 minutes, run 10 minutes, pause 5 etc UNTIL the Water Methanol injection was out so here some of the LW planes lose an advantage but that's not what this is about. Nor is this about the LA7's high alt abaility, becasue as you've said, it does suck up there, not to mention how fun those planes are to fight at 30k (yes I have seen one up there).
Have I said I want the TA152 to be a Jewel at low alts? Didn't think so, definatly not anywhere the past year have I said that. The TA152 deck speed (H modell) we have is about the same as in AH as it should be, not untill over 25k does it really shine and yup there spits still outclimb and outturn them so why is the TA152 Perked? Don't give me any crap about production numbers please.
One more thing, the TA152, with Wep and 25% fuel does 460mph (exactly after 10 minutes test) at 41.000 feet, this is 12mph too slow.
At 31.000 feet it should do around a 460mph acodring to the AH charts and it does (461Mph). AH charts show it alot slower at 41k then it is in AH but even 460 is too slow.
Didn t ever mean to get you on your soap box about the TA. My original point was to refute minus's blurt. My second post wasnt really neccessary, Just want to say that at hi alt's, the TA is MUCH more Airplane than the LAGG.
Minus's, now upset, blurts this--ammo if something false then is it you !
LA7 outurn and out climb and out E perform Ta152 and you cant change this , yes if la7 climb on the other side of map like ta152 then yes , Ta 152 climb beter but if neer you got seroius problem , nothing hold E like La7
before you try post craps about False stuf first try the Ta152 to fly vs any medium or decent stick in la7 , then you will anderstud
!punt !
i not play anymore AH but stil suport and pay my acount
waiting for something to change
Still clinging on to something, even after I made a pretty decent argument that the LAGG is not even in the same league as the TA at hi-alt's.
you posted- Like I said before, LA7 still outclimb s ALOT of things at 20k as long as those things don't use WEP, if those other planes USE Wep the LA7 can still keep up with them.
I can agree with that statement, even if I think its obvious to alot of people. There are a number of AC that the LAGG will outclimb at 20K. Even my old P-47, but I doubt he would follow me up long, as the advantage would soon be mine.
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I honestly can't believe we're having this discussion at all. The La7 isn't going to be perked, people. You're just going to have to deal with it.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Its pointless DMF. People still believe the F4u-1C was perked simply because people complained about it enough. The precident has been set.
Same old thread... no new arguments. I guess I just don't understand why they didn't just bump the last "perk the La-7" thread and save everyone the trouble.
AKDejaVu
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If you get in trouble in a high alt fighter, you cant simply climb to an altitude where you have an advantage, vs the la7 which can simply hit the deck, and either have the advantage, or leave your opponent circling. Low level performance means more, more of the time than high level.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I honestly can't believe we're having this discussion at all. The La7 isn't going to be perked, people. You're just going to have to deal with it.
-- Todd/Leviathn
I agree. I simply don't see the problem. Learn to cope with them. Furthermore, just don't engage at a tactical disadvantage.
Reduced to the least complex answer; avoid them until you have an obvious tactical edge. Moreover, it makes little difference what you are flying once you have the advantage. Leave the La-7 alone, it's fine as it is.
My regards,
Widewing
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Whip that tired dead rotting horse !!!! Beat on it some more !!!
Sheez when are you guys gonna stop squeaking about the La7? Enought already. Find a new whine.
Viper, get your facts straight. The La7 does NOT have a 23mm cannon like the Il-2. The 2 gun La7 with ShVak cannons is ballistically identical to the 3 gun (20mm) La7 with B20 cannons. In fact they fire the exact same shells. The difference is just in the weight of the guns themselves.
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Just got to laugh at all the perk whines... :D
La7's easy to beat but not easy to outrun, try fighting them instead of running and you'll do fine.
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my argument is...
we need more low cost perk rides IMO. And the La7 is about the closest to a perk ride as we have in the set.
But if it doesn't ever get perked i am fine with it
SKurj
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MrLars, I don't know why, but after your statement about the LA7 being easy to beat I just got this bug to search your scores. I searched only the last two tours and all you fly are LA7s with quite the kill/death ratio. I guess it's easy to beat one if you fly one.
:D
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Perk the 51 you say? You're dreaming.
Forgot who said this, but they were right on...quit runnin from em and fight em...they are not a factor if handled correctly. You just have to respect their capabilities.
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Did minus just quit playing till the La7 is perked.
lololol
And just incase uninformed people take what they read here as a fact...
There is absolultly no parity between the guns on an F4u1c and the Guns on a 3 cannon La7. None. Period.
The equivilent load out in the game is a 109G with 3 mg151s.
Great little cannon package. But no range at all....The 4 hispano birds stand alone in firepower.
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Originally posted by Steven
I guess it's easy to beat one if you fly one.
It's also easy to beat one if you don't fly one.
I'm 27-2 against La7s in a Spit V this tour.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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The equivilent load out in the game is a 109G with 3 mg151s.
I certainly don't argue that 4xHisbazooka is a sweet package, but have spent a bit of my (newbie) AH 3 months in the MG151 armed LW planes and the ShVAK armed Yak-9U it seems to me that the ShVAK is equivalent to the Hispano. With the Yak-9U I can sometimes manage a 400yrd deflection shot. I can't ever remember doing that with the MG-151s.
Is the information presented here (http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fgun-pe.html) incorrect per AH (or HTC) as it seems to support this. From this site:
MG151/20 - 740 rpm, 710-800 m/s velocity (which one does the 109 have btw?)
ShVAK - 800 rpm, 860 m/s velocity
B-20 - 800 rpm, 860 m/s velocity (same stats, lighter gun)
Hispano MkII - 600rpm, 880 m/s
So the ShVak and B-20 are only 20 m/s slower but fire 33% faster than the Hispano. They are 60rpm better and at least 60m/s faster than the MG151/20. From this I'd say the LA-7 firepower is closer to the Tempest than to the ME109 with gondolas.
(Standing by for flames.)
NOTE: I'm full of it. See my next post below, in which I flame myself...
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Originally posted by Wilbus
Or unperk all other planes but the 262.
Flying around in a Tempest, f4u or Ta152 an LA7 comes along and catches you (almost tempest atleast) you realize, "Dang! I pay for mine".
I AGREE
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Originally posted by Steven
MrLars, I don't know why, but after your statement about the LA7 being easy to beat I just got this bug to search your scores. I searched only the last two tours and all you fly are LA7s with quite the kill/death ratio. I guess it's easy to beat one if you fly one.
:D
Like I said, fight them and you'll be fine. Just because I can get kills in it doesn't make the La7 an unbeatable foe :D The plane I kill most is the P51 because I target them first before they get a chance to run.
:cool:
I also have a good K/D in a PT...wanna perk that also just 'cause I'm succesful in it?
When and only when the La7's total kills gets close to what the C-Hawg did before it was perked is when I'll agree that perking the La7 is a good idea. Until then I'll just listen to the whines and laugh at the whiners if you don't mind :D
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Originally posted by HFMudd [/B]
In terms of range I would agree that the Svak is taken for granted here as having short range where the Hispano apparantly does not...........this does not add up with the figures.............although it would seem that the Hispano would carry more inertia..............
In terms of hitting power its a can of worms but your figures missed that the hispano round is also 30% heavier than the 20 x 99 R which allows either greater inertia or more explosive power..... so in terms of Killing power the Hispano MkII would definately have the edge by some 10 to 20% or so over the Shvak.
What I would like to see more authorative views on is the range issue.................
Tilt
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uh..... Waaaaaaaaaaah!
Geez, the "perk this, perk that" whines get old, and the whiners should think on something... spend more time learning to fly the plane YOU think everyone should be flying, and maybe your "shouldbeaperkieplane" enemy won't kill you as often. I know... let's just perk EVERYTHING, then work backwards based on the whines. I can just see it... "Waaah... my (fill in the blank) shouldn't be perked because it's such an inferior plane, and I want to fly it and not get shot down!!!! Unperk it now, and perk all the rest!!!" It has been quite some time since I read a "perk the (fill in the blank)" thread and not pictured a spoiled little kid who doesn't get his way (gets killed more often than he wants) crying, stomping up and down, etc., etc. YES, some planes should be perked, and HTC occasionally re-adjusts the perk system as they see necessary. Works for me, so please fellas, put away the hankies, pop the pacifier back in your mouths, grab yer damn stick (the flying one) and start FLYING and not CRYING.
(my apologies for the uncharacteristic-of-me ranting tone of this post... maybe the fact that I work with whiners all day and hope (unrealistically) to find better here has something to do with it.)
the brave souls who make their statements in the air, for they are the true warriors of the sky.......
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HFMudd, if you would do the least the bit of testing you might not come off as such a goomba!
Ok, as you might guess, once I had a few minutes I went for a few flights offline a learned a bit.
Here is what I did,
1) Flew a Yak-9U, a Bf-109G6 and a Spit IX. For each of these I...
2) Set convergence to 200 (This is what I use in the game.)
3) Emptied the MG's to make sure I would not get mixed up.
4) Set a target at 800 yards and then...
5) Hit 'x' and waited for the zoomed view to stabalize.
6) Fired short bursts and then counted the number of 'rings' of drop. I feel I was able to get a testing accuracy of +/- 1/2 a ring.
(So there is no mistake, the a 'ring' of drop is the difference in RADIUS between to adjacent rings.)
Here is what I found: With convergence 200, at 800 yrds....
- The ShVAK will drop about 4 rings.
- The MG 151/20 will drop about 3 rings.
- The Hispano will drop about 2 rings.
Ignore my post above and perk everything with a Hispano! :)
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IMHO La7 is a good craft....but perkable is questionable. I've competed well against La7s' below 10K in an A8. Yes...the La7 is most definately a better craft at that altitude...but an experienced pilot....with his head on straight can give the La7 fits at low alt if he's patient in any aircraft. It has speed low. remember that and store it in your ACM memory. And remember when you die...it's your fault, you placed yourself into postion to be shot down! Don't blame the La7.......or any other plane for your mistake.
Hajo