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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Sunchaser on May 20, 2002, 02:50:48 PM

Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Sunchaser on May 20, 2002, 02:50:48 PM
....regarding the soon to be implemented Bomber changes to Aces High and guess which ones are missing?

HQ
Depots
Cities
Strat Targets.

Fighter guys are running around worried about us ruining their furball fun when we whack their silly little airport.

If I were a fighter jock I would start capping the infrastructure in my country.

I think your frontline fields will be safe but ya better get some altitude over the ones around HQ.

I ain't back yet but my B17 is in the shop for a tuneup.
Title: cc
Post by: BotaBing on May 20, 2002, 02:54:24 PM
Hehe right on. I really hope this goes a long way to eliminate 90% of the current battles (low-alt furballs where Spits and Niks are as common as bishops switching teams when they are about to lose...)
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Wotan on May 20, 2002, 02:56:54 PM
we dont wanna spend our time online flying around waiting for some attention starved dweeb to come in to attempt to kill the fhs.

Especially when we have way more fun dogfighting. Most fh killing fluffers arent supporting a base capture they just wanna go haha look yoo fighta hAnGeRzzz izzzzz dEd......

Theres a whole heap of strat objects to be hit. Also a whole heap of strategic bombing strategies that can be exploited. But admit it that stuff is boring and gets no attention. So fluffers up fly to the base that has the best action just to get attention.

With the new buff model hopefully some of this will be cut back.
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: SKurj on May 20, 2002, 03:57:51 PM
I just wonder how difficult it will be to drop dar now ...

Unless the HQ facility is changed, it will be next to impossible with only the one small target to hit.


I'd change HQ to require 40k if eggs within the boundaries of the facility itself.  Or maybe 80k...


SKurj
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: lazs2 on May 21, 2002, 08:29:14 AM
No... what you are missing my melenoma threatened little buddy is the fact that fighters find fluffs annoying no matter what their targets are.   they are no fun to climb up to and no fun to kill.

as wotan says.. who in their right mind would want to "cap" anything?   Cap simply means "fly around and do nothing in the hope that you may get to shoot at a bunch of AI, gamey drones".  Not exactly a fair trade for fighting other players.  

course... if any fighter jock is stupid enough to cap the field I am at so that I can furball..... I will be grateful.
lazs
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Fatty on May 21, 2002, 08:34:52 AM
Quote
I really hope this goes a long way to eliminate 90% of the current battles


You're not content to simply stay out of the furballs you don't like, but you've become so backed up about it you want them eliminated altogether?
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: MuadDib of Dune on May 21, 2002, 08:37:23 AM
Certainly one way of looking at it lazs.  Ive got to say however, if your looking for fighter vrs fighter and want nothing but furballing to occur your probably in the wrong place.
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Zippatuh on May 21, 2002, 08:45:06 AM
I have to say that there is a certain amount of fun to cherry picking the bombers that are trying to down the furball base.  Usually they come in at around 10-15K and are so preoccupied with all the red on the ground as well as their target they don’t have a chance to see me drop in.

I also have to admit that I usually resort to this when both my flying and gunnery have gone to watermelon for the night, which seems like most of the time I’ve been on lately :D.
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: lazs2 on May 21, 2002, 08:45:29 AM
well then spice boy.... you are welcome to "cap" CV's, resources and fields from the attention starved drone herders.   Like I said... I will be grateful if you minimize the effect AI has on the game.
lazs
Title: Re: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: CavemanJ on May 21, 2002, 09:05:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sunchaser

I ain't back yet but my B17 is in the shop for a tuneup.


Lordy I hope yer gonna be flyin Rook when she rolls outta that hanger.......
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: CavemanJ on May 21, 2002, 09:08:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
Theres a whole heap of strat objects to be hit. Also a whole heap of strategic bombing strategies that can be exploited. But admit it that stuff is boring and gets no attention. So fluffers up fly to the base that has the best action just to get attention.


Beware, young grasshoppa, the strategic side of the game can have serious adverse affects on your furballing abilities.  Awfully hard to get to the furball if ya only have 25% fuel at yer launch base.... for TWO hours.

Maybe it's time for raising the awareness of strategic targets....

The Wrecking Crew style!

(should be some old timers who know what I mean :D )
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Wotan on May 21, 2002, 10:08:47 AM
thers no attention in leveling factory targets  ofcourse porking the fuel at fields is equal to killing the fhs. Both are done for attention not to support field capture.

However i have seen missions where part of the capture strategy was to pork the fuel at surrounding bases. I even saw a few missions where arados were used to pork fuel and barracks at bases around hq. This was followed up by lancs and fighters which leveled hq.

All this is a bit much for you average fluffer though.

:)
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Virage on May 21, 2002, 02:31:28 PM
Wotan, I once had respect for you and your squad.
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Midnight on May 21, 2002, 03:26:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
well then spice boy.... you are welcome to "cap" CV's, resources and fields from the attention starved drone herders.   Like I said... I will be grateful if you minimize the effect AI has on the game.
lazs


I can't stand this person. 1.10 is not even out yet and he already has is derogatory mud slinging and name calling started up by calling buff drivers, "drone herders."

I think the issue is the ability to resupply and the general rebuild time of strat targets. A buff that spends upwards of 30-45 minutes getting to target that he can bomb and have the enemy rebuild it before he get's home is not going to bomb strat targets very much. It is more fun for them to go and bomb things that can actually have an effect on the enemy.

Two of my favroite things to do in Aces High...

1. Escort friendly bombers and kill fighter dweebs that try to kill them.

2. Intercept enemy bomber raids.

The idea of the war is to reset the enemy, which is all about heavy bombers dropping tons of ordinance on little airfields that need to be captured.

If the targets of capture were factories and cities to effect the resupply of airfields, which would eventually run dry, the whole basic furball in and near airfields would go away very quickly.
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: lazs2 on May 21, 2002, 04:21:45 PM
well.... gotta admit... it is pretty hard to argue with someone as fun loving as  a "major midnight"..   Still...  what is not accurate about the expression "drone herders"?
lazs
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Mox on May 21, 2002, 04:27:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by CavemanJ
The Wrecking Crew style!

(should be some old timers who know what I mean :D )


Ohhh yeah!

Cave!
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: DES on May 21, 2002, 04:28:05 PM
"The idea of the war is to reset the enemy"

Who's fighting a war? I'm playing an air combat game.

DES
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Kieran on May 21, 2002, 04:30:36 PM
Isn't it ironic to see the number of dedicated buff pilots on the BBS these days verifying everything Lazs ever said about them?
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Dead Man Flying on May 21, 2002, 04:38:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Midnight
The idea of the war is to reset the enemy, which is all about heavy bombers dropping tons of ordinance on little airfields that need to be captured.


I especially liked when we reset Germany.  Unfortunately, Europe then turned into Mindanao, and everyone's been complaining ever since.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Hey, wait, that is how it happened, right?
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: CavemanJ on May 21, 2002, 04:49:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mox


Ohhh yeah!

Cave!


Maybe we'll even target the nitwits

:D
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Lephturn on May 21, 2002, 04:49:44 PM
LOL.

You guys slay me.  :)  Good one DMF.

LOL, Drone Herders.... bahahaha, good one Lazs.

Luckily, I'm sure HTC knows that A2A fighter combat (AKA furballing) is the heart and soul of this, and any other, air combat game.  I'm sure they'll balance things so that both types of players can do their thing in AH.

Personally, I'm going to wait until the thing actually comes out before I get my undies in a wad.

Lephturn
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Wotan on May 21, 2002, 05:29:58 PM
Sorry Virage,

I call it like i see it. However, should you wanna fly with us in tod again the door still open :)

BoB this friday if your interested :)

Wotan (wotan@3-jg2.com)

Email me if your interested. (i know that whole lack of respect thing, but you wouldnt wanna pass on 2 hours of hair pulling fun would ya :))

But that said my disdain for flufsf goes way way back. My point of my post is thats theres a roll for buffs in ah. They just arent used against strat targets. Theres no strat to fh killin  unless it involves a field capture. Even then its a pure tactical use of buffs. But what lazs has pointed out and from my own observation fluffers kill fhs just for attention.

Now i know everyone of you assume I mean specifically all buffers. Most have a hard time understanding that everything doesn't revolve around just them. I am sure some enjoy the nuances of the well planned buff missions. Even with all the current gameplay concessions. But in my experience and, from the way it sounds, quite a few others feel the same way I do.

These type of  threads are always started but some poor unfortunate ignored and unappreciated fluffer. "Pity me because the furballers wont conform to my idea of fun."

We all should spend  55 minutes of our hour online flying circling at 22k waiting for an fh killer. Even though that as a buff pilot there are far better targets. Targets that score more points per sortie, targets that earn more perks per sortie, targets that represent a more historical roll for bombers. But theres no attention to be gained from hitting these targets.

We heard prior to the current strart model how great fluffers would love it because of the better strategic targets that would be ingame. Well fluffers can fly how and where they like. But I will call umm like I see um.

I wont ever start a fluff post but I will reply to them and give mho. :)
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: MuadDib of Dune on May 21, 2002, 05:59:20 PM
But what lazs has pointed out and from my own observation fluffers kill fhs just for attention.
====
My interests in AH spans everything avaliable in the game.

That being said: I dont kill FHs flying just buffs.  I kill them in anything that can accomplish the task.  LVT4s, PNZRs, P38s..and Yes, Lancasters.  Funny thing though, its not attention I seek but rather gratification.  Finding out what field lasz is upping from makes the gratification all the more rewarding.

I understand the extremely narrow focus some folks have playing fighter duel...err....AH.  Sad thing for those folks however is that AH is more, hell...alot more than just powder puffing in big furball  circle jerks.  Dont get me wrong, I can circle jerk with the best but there are definately times when CJ'ing gets boring as hell.  AH is a great place in that respect.  Always alternatives to the usual humdrum :)
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: texace on May 21, 2002, 06:32:24 PM
Hmm...I think I see how it is. Attention starved? Well, no...not really. Drawing attention to one's self is not a good thing in the MA, as it draws fire. (Up a 262 and you'll see what I mean) I do belive that there has to be a better way for someone to get attention rather than porking a few fighter hangers.

For one thing, I think maybe a raid of 262's would draw attention...what about a massive goon raid? That does it too. I seriously soubt that bomber pilots are simply out for attention. Seldom do I think that a bomber is simply in the air to say "Look at me, I'm porking your fighter hangers!" While the case might be, I doubt it's more than 5% of the buffers out there.

I still can't see where the attention starved remark came from...I really don't. I've followed Lasz and Wotan's arguments, but I don't recall where it came to become attention starved. TO set the record straight, not all buffers are attention starved. Like I said above, seldom do buffers up with the sole purpose of runing a fight.

Tell me this....have any of you buffers out there seen a large red bar and said to yourself "Gee...that seems to be an interesting fight...I think I'll up a Lanc and stop it!"? I, for one, have not. It becomes a matter of seeing it from the buffer's point of view. Are you simply saying that because they "ruin your fun"? Well, perhaps so, but you have to realize that we all don't do that.

I've seen the label applied many, many times here, and I still get miffed at it. Attention starved is not a proper term, as it only shows a sign of weakness. Must we resort to name calling to show that we're in the right? On the same token, not all fighter jocks are "dweebs", but that seems to be the norm in here anyways.

Lasz, while you are correct in some points, you are incorrect in others. Yes, it usually isn't worth it to attack a bomber, as the .50 are too leathal. That I agree with. Yes, bombers as of now have too much "impact" on the game from the simplified bombsights and no drift. But on the other side...buffers do not have the sole purpose of killing YOUR or anyone else's fight. They do what they did in WWII, drop bombs on targets. That target is of the bomber's choosing, be it a city, HQ, or a FH.

The drone hearders remark isn't funny, but it is almost correct. But you need to see how it is implamented rather than making assumptions. If the bombsights and drift weren't changed, then yes, you'd have room to squeak, but they're making the bombsights more sophiscated, and adding drift. This makes it more real, and the chances of a single bomber group (of 4) destroying all the FH at a field are slim. Here's where the argument becomes moot. AS single bomber looses it's superior impact on the game, and therefore it isn't as leathal a platform.

It would be pointless for buffers to attack a field in 1.10, as it is a waste of bombs. Carpet bombing wasn't and shouldn't se used for fields and FH in general...it should be used for cities and strat targets. Hopefully they're tweeking the strat to accomodate the change.

OK, I'm finished. I felt I needed to say something... Oh well...another waste of time...;)
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: lazs2 on May 22, 2002, 08:18:17 AM
spice boy said "That being said: I dont kill FHs flying just buffs. I kill them in anything that can accomplish the task. LVT4s, PNZRs, P38s..and Yes, Lancasters. Funny thing though, its not attention I seek but rather gratification. Finding out what field lasz is upping from makes the gratification all the more rewarding. "

I am flattered that you would spend so much of your life thinking about me.  Sadly.... I never think about you and don't believe I have ever seen you online.   You must be particularly forgetable.

texace... bull.   say what you like but the results are what people see.   someone is taking fluffs and killing nothing but FH's.   It happens a lot and people notice it.  If only 5% of the fluffers are doing it then..... The ability to do so is even more lopsided... By that reasoning, the only reason fluffs aren't even more anoying is the restraint of 95% of them... They COULD have many times more effect than they do now towards ruining oyther peoples fun.   I don't want to depend on any groups mercy..  especially a bunch of no talent drone herders.   And yes... they allways were drone herders considering their crew.. It is just more apparent now.
lazs
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: MuadDib of Dune on May 22, 2002, 08:32:50 AM
I know you and you know me.  You just dont know it.
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: texace on May 22, 2002, 09:40:51 AM
No, lasz...I am correct...you're being your old self again. You're still trying to get us to comform to your ways with your pety logic and false claims.

Yes, buffs do affect the MA in some way, but you're making it sound like they are the core of the "fun ruining" there. No, they aren't...they simply affect the MA enough to warrent change. You need to quit trying to get us to feel sorry for you and look at the big picture. Buffers are not attention starved, and have no been for some time. Buffs in this game do what they did in WWII...drop bombs on targets, albeit in a rather gamey way.

I haven't flown bombers in some time because of this...it was no longer any fun to drop laser guided weapons. I was going to wait until 1.10 to fly them again. Basically...don't shoot down the idea just yet. You haven't seen how it will work. Until you know exactly how it will "affect" your precious game...don't whine about it.

God...I make a constructive and true post only to be called a liar. Jeez...talkng to you is like talking to a warm apple pie...
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: MuadDib of Dune on May 22, 2002, 10:09:36 AM
talkng to you is like talking to a warm apple pie...
=====
Please.... please.... please.....apple pies are delicious, especially with vanilla ice cream.  To make any sort of connection between "He whos fun is perpetually ruined by 5% of nothing" and one of the greatest food stuffs ever devised does tragic injustice to all involved.
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: lazs2 on May 22, 2002, 10:33:07 AM
"I know you and you know me. You just dont know it.


__________________
"The Spice must Flow""

well spice boy...  perhaps it would be a good idea to give out your real handle.  My guess is that you would still be imensely..... forgetable.

texace... so.... it would appear that u agree with everything I have said but that you don't like me saying it?   You apear to say that you agree that the fluffs are gamey and have too much effect on the game.    You disagree with me on their motives but offer nothing more than your feelings on the matter.   I contend that there is no real point to them killing lean too's other than to scream... "look at me I spoiled your fight".

As for what will happen with the new change...  Who knows?   I certainly have made no predictions.   All I have said is that if the changes make the fluffs have less effect in the game then it is a good change... If the fluffs end up having more effect then it is a bad change.

The ideal change would be that the fluffs have no effect on the game whatsoever but that no one tells them.  
lazs
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: MuadDib of Dune on May 22, 2002, 10:58:16 AM
perhaps it would be a good idea to give out your real handle. My guess is that you would still be imensely..... forgetable.
====
No such luck.  

The only reason I straggle along on your salamanderly posts is to try and understand what makes you tick, rather annoyingly and with little purpose I might add.

Checking your stats you do nothing but fly fighters.  0 bomber, 0 attack, 0 vehicle, 0 boat.  This is your MO.  That explains alot about your narrow participation and narrow political spectrum within the game.  A fair guess would put you in the company of say 15% of the player base.  This is likely close in numbers percentage with the segment of the community that specializes in bombers.  My guess is the new features will bring a larger number of the community into the bombers and with luck and good programming, more people will develope into this part of the game and participate more often.  I can see why you would not be happy with the possibility given how you play the game.

Bottom line:  tough sh*t  :)
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: lazs2 on May 22, 2002, 02:17:09 PM
well spice boy... it is nice that you spend so much time thinking about me.

I just checked your stats and guess what?  You don't spend any time doing anything in AH.   I would say that you represent about 0.006% of the community so far as what you like to do in AH.
lazs
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: MuadDib of Dune on May 22, 2002, 02:46:14 PM
I just checked your stats and guess what? You don't spend any time doing anything in AH.
====
The data suggests Ive spent more time in the MA this tour than you.  In Fighter stats however, I have five fewer hours than you, yet, I outrank you 243 to 128.  Not that it matters a whit to me.  All Ive accomplished here is to pull your buttplug clear and expose you openly for the non-force in the game that you are.  Whining about fluffs or not, your indeed quite insignifacant in the larger picture.

Ill leave you to your own devices now lazs.
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Tac on May 22, 2002, 03:21:59 PM
lazs still hasnt realized that the great majority of times, its a JABO fighter (suicide or not) that flattens fields, not a buff. The only thing a single bomber can do is pork fuel and ammo or kill 1 or hangars.

There's no real difference between a 30k buff (untouchable) porking your fuel and a kamikaze jabo fighter taking out your fuel..and coming back about 8 times, doing more damage than a buff, in the same amount of time it would take that buff to get to high alt.

Next he'll want fighters to not carry ordenance because they destroy his fields.. then he'll want them to not damage ground targets because they were porking his fuel.

The mahdi is right, whatever you say in this is inconsequential.
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Apache on May 22, 2002, 03:38:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Tac
lazs still hasnt realized that the great majority of times, its a JABO fighter (suicide or not) that flattens fields, not a buff. The only thing a single bomber can do is pork fuel and ammo or kill 1 or hangars.

There's no real difference between a 30k buff (untouchable) porking your fuel and a kamikaze jabo fighter taking out your fuel..and coming back about 8 times, doing more damage than a buff, in the same amount of time it would take that buff to get to high alt.

Next he'll want fighters to not carry ordenance because they destroy his fields.. then he'll want them to not damage ground targets because they were porking his fuel.

The mahdi is right, whatever you say in this is inconsequential.


This has got to be the most assinine thing I've seen to date. Do you actually believe anyone with any semblance of logic would subscribe to this theory? A jabo does more to damage a field than a bomber?

I noticed your caveat of the jabo coming back 8 times but there is only 1 buff, lol. Yeah right.
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: texace on May 22, 2002, 05:25:39 PM
No, lasz...not really a personal flame...just something about how you word things that rubs me wrong.

Look...yes, I agree with what you say, I'm just making a point about something I noticed...it's not what you say...it's how you say it...

My apologies...;)
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Ogun on May 23, 2002, 12:01:46 AM
I admit it.  You caught me.  I need the attention.  I up my Lancs and take out 3fhs, a vh and most of town because I need the attention from my country.

It's a tough thing.  I don't get any recognition in public.  I feel like nobody loves me, and I just want my countrymen to say, "WTG!" and "Well done!"

I'm getting counseling now; my shrink says that if only I would be a fiter in a furball, I could conform more--dodging the infinite circle of bombing, praise, and self-esteem boost.  Instead, he says, as a furball fiter, I could match my wits in a fairly unpredictable blizzard of metal and bullets with others who enjoy similar confusion and a feeling of anonymity.

Everytime I get a kill, my shrink suggests that I taunt the player I killed to show everyone in the MA what a tough guy I am, and maybe I could get some respect that way; this would not only be a self-esteem booster, but it would mask my intent of seeking conformity AND self-esteem by allowing me to pretend that what I'm doing is more important than any buff is (after all, you don't hear buffs taunting alot--which is, of course, because they aren't good pilots).  I would just appear to be an A-Hole with no regard for the goal for which the game was designed--to win fields and wars.

Additionally, my shrink suggests that I try to preach other buffers out of the stratosphere and into the melting pot so that they too will avoid standing out as those that need attention.

Somewhat related, he also suggested that my 401k, garden, job, family, and automobiles where only methods of getting attention, and they I should separate myself from all of them.  So from now on, I'll be playing the game via cell phone modem thingy from a small cabin in northern Wisconsin, snaring rabbits and funnelling rain water to survive.

Thanks for setting me straight! :D
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Toad on May 23, 2002, 12:13:39 AM
Why do some people strive to conceal their  arena identity on the board?

Point to Laz.

If you don't have the hair to post under your player ID. :rolleyes:
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Hangtime on May 23, 2002, 12:15:46 AM
I saw a bomber once. it had lots of nasty lil guns stickin outta it, so; rather than get shot in the face i went lookin for something a lil easier to kill.

"well... whotta surprize, lookit those low c47's; tryin ta sneak over the hill..."

c'mon guys; lets squeak and moan after the changes rather than speculate on our pet whines tonal inflection prior to implementation of AI overcast.

;)
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Lazerus on May 23, 2002, 12:29:51 AM
Was about to reply, then realized what a love muffin the person I was replying to is. I fly bombers to influence the fight at a base. The less attention I get, the better. There IS a point to this game, and it is a game. The point is to get a country down to 1 field. If it takes bombers to do it, then thats what I will fly. If a fighter is in order, then I'll be there in my li'l 205. If I ruin someone's 'fun' by porkin there base, I have made my night.
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: MuadDib of Dune on May 23, 2002, 12:31:40 AM
Couple of other things I dont think Ive seen mentioned is the 512x512 maps and loss of lazer accurate nordon dispensed ord.  I suspect that these large maps have the new bomber roles imbeded deep into their layout.  Im sure HTC has put much thought and consideration into the deployment of this new feature.  Look to see the strategic targets way in the back.  

Plus, this new method of bombing will probably relegate the pinpoint stuff (aka the disenfranchisement of the lazs groupies) to the lighter JABOS.  I doubt if the new bomb dispertion will allow even a four ship of heavies to kill FHs with any degree of certainty.  Im plain happy just to see how it all works out.

====
Hiyas toad,

If your referring to me take heart in knowing that I am "MuadDib" in the arena.  Its just that the name was already taken here on the BBS so I extended it a bit to "MuadDib of Dune" to be able to combat the evil lazs and his small band of disenfranchised groupies.

Ive played here quite a bit over the last two years and decided this time around to use the "witness identity program" and leave my lurid past behind.  In any event, Im a short timer here.
"Space Cadets on VENUS" comes out this summer, thats where Im headed.

If you werent referring to me then I digress.

http://www.spacecadets-on-venus.com

MuadDib
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Hooligan on May 23, 2002, 12:47:01 AM
Quote

The point is to get a country down to 1 field.


Actually I believe this is incorrect.  From what I see in the MA most players could care less about this.  The main point of this game is fighter vs. fighter combat (thus the name Aces High).  Use of other weapon systems is given somewhat less attention but is nonetheless a major theme also.  For most players the strat system and base capture are merely a premise, a convienent reason to engage in combat.  Base capture makes combat far more interesting since it causes huge variation in the conditions and terrain in which that combat occurs.  The game would be boring without base capture and the feeble but adequate motivation it provides to change the scenarios in which combat occur.  

For a few individuals, winning the war is a primary motivation.  Well ... good for them.  That's a benefit they enjoy that I don't.  However, anybody who has paid attention to the MA for a couple of hours would have to be crazy to think that a majority of the players give a crap about the landgrabporkfest ((tm) FunkedUp).

Hooligan
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Toad on May 23, 2002, 12:49:16 AM
Yes, I was referring to you.

Sorry, but I find it a bit hard to respect guys that hide who they are/were when they post. Particularly when they post agressively against folks that (despite their particular past and personality) do not try to hide.

Just me I guess.

At least you let us know what handle you're using now. I appreciate that.
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: MuadDib of Dune on May 23, 2002, 12:54:27 AM
Dunno Hooli...

Seems more and more folks are displaying the desire to squash entire nations these days.  Certainly more so than say even a year gone by.

Bear in mind as well that birdz of a feather do indeed flock together.  Theres always more birdz in the tree than on the branch.  That is to say that a small tightly knit  (no pun intended) squad of like minded people might convince even themselves that a majority of people in the arena think the way they themselves do.

Just a thot......

Thanks for understanding toad.  Im sure you know people who have left the game basically unhappy and then later decided to gain  fresh perspective with a new identity and then found themselves enjoying the game again.  Such is my case.

MuadDib
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Zaphod on May 23, 2002, 02:46:13 AM
"II'm doing is more important than any buff is (after all, you don't hear buffs taunting alot--which is, of course, because they aren't good pilots). I would just appear to be an A-Hole with no regar admit it. You caught me. I need the attention. I up my Lancs and take out 3fhs, a vh and most of town because I need the attention from my country.

It's a tough thing. I don't get any recognition in public. I feel like nobody loves me, and I just want my countrymen to say, "WTG!" and "Well done!"

I'm getting counseling now; my shrink says that if only I would be a fiter in a furball, I could conform more--dodging the infinite circle of bombing, praise, and self-esteem boost. Instead, he says, as a furball fiter, I could match my wits in a fairly unpredictable blizzard of metal and bullets with others who enjoy similar confusion and a feeling of anonymity.

Everytime I get a kill, my shrink suggests that I taunt the player I killed to show everyone in the MA what a tough guy I am, and maybe I could get some respect that way; this would not only be a self-esteem booster, but it would mask my intent of seeking conformity AND self-esteem by allowing me to pretend that what d for the goal for which the game was designed--to win fields and wars.

Additionally, my shrink suggests that I try to preach other buffers out of the stratosphere and into the melting pot so that they too will avoid standing out as those that need attention.

Somewhat related, he also suggested that my 401k, garden, job, family, and automobiles where only methods of getting attention, and they I should separate myself from all of them. So from now on, I'll be playing the game via cell phone modem thingy from a small cabin in northern Wisconsin, snaring rabbits and funnelling rain water to survive.

Thanks for setting me straight! "


Ogun does this mean all the money I spent puttin Flowmasters, FITPK etc on my truck mean I have a problem?????

Zaphod
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Lazerus on May 23, 2002, 02:53:21 AM
So from now on, I'll be playing the game via cell phone modem thingy from a small cabin in northern Wisconsin, snaring rabbits and funnelling rain water to survive.

sounds like fun   :-)
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Kieran on May 23, 2002, 06:05:21 AM
My one and only point is, outside of lazs, you don't hear any other furballers saying anything about putting an end to the buffers. The reverse is not true. And even in Lazs's case you don't necessarily hear him say "end buffing", it's more like, "do it so long as it has no impact on what I want to do." Maybe that is silly in the grand scheme of things (maybe not), but he isn't making plans to disrupt the buffing way of play.

Bear in mind, this only applies to those buffers who've voiced a desire to end furballing. The arena proves furballers are in no way a minority, and assuming the vast majority of players are semi-intelligent, no re-education program is necessary to help them understand the error of their ways.

Also bear in mind I would be just as vocal an advocate for the buffs if someone was seriously attempting to end thier way of play, too.
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: lazs2 on May 23, 2002, 08:13:47 AM
It wouldn't bother me if fluffs went away.  I don't like fighting em and don't like the lopsided effect they have on the game.   I don't think they are worth calling for an "end all fluffing" campain...

I do hear over and over how we must fix this or fix that to end the furgball and force people to fly a certain way.  

when I check scores for "mauddib" I get zero hours spent in the arena.  What is rank?   I have never seen anyone with the spice boys handle in the arena.
lazs
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: MuadDib of Dune on May 23, 2002, 08:22:20 AM
Its MuadDib.....

mUaddib, not mAuddib

Thinking back on it, who ever called for an end to furballs?  That would remove the largest portion of the food chain and disrupt space folding.



He who controls the fluffers controls the universe....

MuadDib
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: AKSWulfe on May 23, 2002, 08:25:06 AM
Lazs, you missed a d in the name.

In any event, I don't think you should pride your rank around like that Muaddib... especially when your k/d is only 2.4 while Lazs is 3.0272.. your kills/sorte is only .9 something while lazs is 1.4016. He's also close to 2 up on you Muaddib in the kills/hour category. and has twice your hit percentage.

So while you may have some nifty rank, the substance that makes that rank has nothing on Lazs.
-SW
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: lazs2 on May 23, 2002, 08:42:07 AM
I have never claimed to be anything but mediocre at this game.  I will say tho that my stats make ol spice boy look even worse.. It also appears that 26 of his kills were with the ship gun and that in the plane I fly he is 1/1  4 kills 4 deaths.  

SW... his hit percentage is twice mine not the opposite.   I am a lousy shot and take high percentage shots...  The stats are fun to look at tho.  They tell you what a guy likes to do.   Looks like spice boy likes to look for easy kills where he can catch someone assleep and pump a lot of rounds into em.

I can see why he would not want to get into the main fight.  Still.... I've never seen the guy online.  He may zoom down some day and kill me while I'm busy or just assleep at the switch but his ilk is no real threat to me in the main.
lazs
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: AKSWulfe on May 23, 2002, 08:54:47 AM
Whoops, my bad.

Either way, I was just showing that the way rank is- it's only a number.

Kind of like saying "Well I'm customer 0001 and you are customer 0002"... big whooptie.
:)
-SW
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: lazs2 on May 23, 2002, 09:02:06 AM
I agree with you SW.. peoples stats are interesting tho taken as seperate parts...

Also... it appears that spice boy has not flown any tour except this one.. no wonder no one has ever heard of him.
lazs
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: AKSWulfe on May 23, 2002, 09:03:42 AM
Wtf? That's nice Muaddib, you made a post about your stats vs his in your "last tour" here where you flew mainly USAAF rides.

Why'd you delete it? Figure it might give away who you are?

Besides, his kills/hour was still higher.. by 3 if I'm not mistaken while everything else was pretty much the same.
-SW
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: MuadDib of Dune on May 23, 2002, 09:14:06 AM
AKsW: Lazs is a big boy.  Im sure he can stand on his own two feet.

In any event, Ive recently come back into the game with a goal of getting good in USN F6Fs and F4Us.  Previously I flew USAAF stuff.  

Heres the fighter stats in the last full tour with which I flew my main ride comparring we two accomplished fyter pylits.

K/D Me: 3.7 Lazs: 3.7
K/S Me: 1.2 Lazs: 1.4
K/H Me: 6.1 Lazs: 9
Hit% Me: 9.6 Lazs: 3.1

Me
182 Kills 33 Deaths
Lazs
72 Kills 17 Deaths

So we would tend break about even but Ill give a nod here to lazs.  He is a successfull furballtician.  I prefer to ZoomBoom.

MuadDib
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: lazs2 on May 23, 2002, 02:19:25 PM
roadkill spice boy... the last tour you were in you have a k/D of 2.4 (mine is currently 3.2) and a k/S of 0.9 (mine is currently 1.4) and K/H of 6.12.  (mine is 7.4) You have no stats for earlier tours than this one.   You also would have an even worse K/D if you didn't have 26 "ship gunner" kills.

you have only flown one tour in AH and it is the current one.   Looks like you cherry pick and I don't and I still do better than you and..... I ain't much good at this stuff.
lazs
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Wotan on May 23, 2002, 02:46:22 PM
shades account

he said hes hiding now because of his previous niks reputation.

For all the crap Laz takes you always know who your talking too.
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Dead Man Flying on May 23, 2002, 02:58:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
shades account


There's nothing worse than some lamer who leaves AH and comes back with a shades account.  The nerve!

-- Todd/DMF/Calamari/Leviathn

err...
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Nifty on May 23, 2002, 03:36:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AKSWulfe So while you may have some nifty rank, the substance that makes that rank has nothing on Lazs.
-SW


SW, a nifty rank isn't anything to be proud of!  ;)  I still suck at this flyin' crap.

edit:  I'd like to point out that rank doesn't change the fact that ONE Lancaster can destroy all 3 FHs at a field with ease.  That's a fact, not opinion.  The fact is it does happen too.  I've seen it happen like Wotan says, where the guy just drops the hangars to drop the hangars.  No attempt is made to knock the town down and get the goons to the maproom.  One person, one plane, 3 clicks of a button.
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Wotan on May 23, 2002, 03:54:27 PM
Quote
There's nothing worse than some lamer who leaves AH and comes back with a shades account. The nerve!


Not quite my point. Read his posts. He said he quit ah came back with a new name to hide from his previous reputation. Hes also dancing around the fact he may be discovered. I dont care who he is or who you are or anyone is.

Hes clearly going at laz as if he knows him. Why then hide yourself.

I know plenty of folks who leave ah and come back with different niks. I dont know any that leave because of their bad rep then return under a new nik to start over where they left off.
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Dead Man Flying on May 23, 2002, 04:01:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
I know plenty of folks who leave ah and come back with different niks. I dont know any that leave because of their bad rep then return under a new nik to start over where they left off.


I was making a funny, ya Luftweenie.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Wotan on May 23, 2002, 04:13:18 PM
doh
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: MuadDib of Dune on May 23, 2002, 05:52:30 PM
Oh the humanity.......
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Kieran on May 23, 2002, 08:07:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MuadDib of Dune
Oh the humanity.......


Octavius?
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: bowser on May 24, 2002, 07:26:43 AM
If the idea is to grab a new nick and start over, why continue to be a dick?  Might as well have kept the old nick.

bowser
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: MuadDib of Dune on May 24, 2002, 08:04:36 AM
See here bowser, and follow along with every word.

I was a "nice guy" forever and decided to be a dick with a new persona.  Why ruin a good thing.

So you see, its the reverse of your half baked presumption.
Now run along......
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: lazs2 on May 24, 2002, 08:13:23 AM
Oh I see.... spice boy used to be a nice guy and a great pilot but decided that he would be a moron and a crappy pilot for a change under a new identity ?

What?  so famous that we might not vote for you in the next presedential election if we know what a moron you can be?   Maybe we won't go to any of your movies or read yur books?    or... maybe it is easier to claim to have been a nice guy and decent pilot if it can't be checked up on.

Come on spice boy.... grow a pair..  We won't hurt ya... much.
lazs
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Sunchaser on May 24, 2002, 08:35:35 AM
....So glad to have provided you kids a sandbox to play in but be careful, I think the word city accidentally got into someones post.

If anyone feels the need to actually post something here remotely on topic please leave immediately.
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: MuadDib of Dune on May 24, 2002, 09:18:12 AM
Awe schucks lazs.....

Im having too much fun with ya  :)

I must say though how honored I am to be thought of so highly by you.  Its a privalige sir, a genuine thrill...hehe

Tell ya what.  If you can "expose" me by the end of May 2002.  Ill buy ya 3 months of HTC time online.  NOBODY HELP EM!!!

LOL

Cheers
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Kieran on May 24, 2002, 09:19:24 AM
"Sometimes you just have to let art flow..."

William Hurt, The Big Chill
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Apache on May 24, 2002, 09:43:41 AM
Muaddib, we are indeed creatures of habit.

Sentence structure, thought composition, useage of punctuation, etc., are as much use as fingerprint.

Wondered where you went off to.

Welcome back.

BTW, you weren't always a nice guy. :)

Ah, law enforcement training. Gotta luv it, lol.
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: MuadDib of Dune on May 24, 2002, 09:52:55 AM
Apache,

Hes got to do on his own ;)

Your indeed correct.
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Apache on May 24, 2002, 09:55:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MuadDib of Dune
Apache,

Hes got to do on his own ;)

Your indeed correct.


k :)

I've always liked ya so I'll play dumb, lol.
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Kieran on May 24, 2002, 09:58:19 AM
Apache-

Right on. I can tell who wrote what in my classes whether the names are on the papers or not.

I have a short list for MuadDib myself.:D
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Dead Man Flying on May 24, 2002, 02:09:22 PM
MuadDib is Drex!  He used to be a great pilot and a nice guy...

Oh, wait.  Drex sucks.  So much for that theory!

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: lazs2 on May 24, 2002, 02:17:43 PM
spice boy... I think you are missing the point..  I don't care who you think you were.   All that matters to me is that you made a claim that you can't back up.   Your stats show that you are not what you claim to be.

You also claimed that you weren't going to "reveal" who you are now.. nobody gave a toejam but you told us anyway.  

You have flown one tour.  
lazs
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: lazs2 on May 24, 2002, 02:25:03 PM
sunchaser... you should be glad that attention has been diverted from your original post that simply proved my point about fluffers being attention starved no talent milrunners that have too much effect on gameplay.

"watch out cause we are gonna ruin the game for you if you don't play with us" is not a good thing to be drawing attention to IMO.  The fact that a few guys with so little talent can have such a huge effect is not really something that I would point out if I were you... people might see the obvious.
lazs
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: MuadDib of Dune on May 24, 2002, 06:16:31 PM
Whew!   that was close.  Offer withdrawn :)

Latest score data - Tour 28 - Fighter stats only

MuadDib
Fighter kills: 116                          
Fighter deaths: 31 (for a K/D 2.54)
Fighter Hit%: 10.62
Fighter Rank: 101
Time in Fighters: 18:17:43

Lazs
Fighter kills: 181
Fighter deaths:53 (for a K/D of 3.26)
Fighter Hit%: 4.48
Fighter Rank: 241
Time in Fighters: 23:39:04

Your actually actually doing pretty good considering the tour is almost over. Still ride the F4U-1 exclusively?  If so that makes your achievements even more commendable.  I would however, recommend working a bit on your gunnery :D

Forever yours,
Spice Boy
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: SKurj on May 24, 2002, 06:44:53 PM
errmm guys... u seem to have lost focus on what this thread was about...

how about takin it to email and lettin this thing die... cuz it likely be locked b4 ya know it +)


SKurj
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: Gadfly on May 24, 2002, 09:24:45 PM
Poor Laz
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: lazs2 on May 25, 2002, 09:16:11 AM
spice boy...  glad we are sticking to the tours that we have flown...

you left out a few stats...  The stats you left out are the ones that pertain to the thread and they are kills per hour and kills per sortie.  

Why do they pertain to the thread more than K/D or hit percentage?   Well.... kills per hour (mine about 7.5 yours 6) tells us how much yu care about getting into the fight and /or how much/little patience you have for looking for the advantage.

Fluffs that kill gameplay and fighter availability will slow the K/H for those who like to fight while having little effect on those like yourself who either don't engage much or look for a good "bounce"

Kills per sortie (mine about 1.4 yours 0.9) says about the same thing about likes in the game.  fluffs that kll gameplay and fighter availability will make it harder for me to have fun... more dead time.

And..... gadfly/lezqueen doesn't fly any sim for any meaningful time  which proves that his idea of fun is so bad that it even bores him.

I am a mediocre pilot (you appear to be somewhat less than mediocre) and have never claimed otherwise.   I do believe that fighting the -1a in the manner i do is sorta chalenging tho.   I am sure that there are others out there who could do what I do with the -1a a lot better than I do and I love to run into a good Hog pilot on the deck dogfighting.   If the plane you fly has a K/D of 3/1 and you do 2.4 in it then you have a problem.   If your plane has a K/D of 0.9 and you do a little better than that then you may be learning the plane.   IMO.
lazs
Title: Several billion words it seems....
Post by: MuadDib of Dune on May 25, 2002, 01:32:51 PM
First off, There are a ton of mediocer performers in the game and your not one of them.  The F4U1 is a very difficult plane to survive in.  That aweful tendancy to roll out of high G turns gives away good advantage, and is especially problematic in intense furballs.  To do this as well as you do is something to be prideful of.
====
My preference in the game is to land my sorties.  This naturally  makes me operate more defensively when engaging.  I do try to find the advantage before commiting to the attack.  I find the furballs difficult to perform in.  The lethality of guns in AH has always been high and taking even a moderate amount of hits usually means Im dead.

Another preference has always been fast machines that historically performed better at higher altitudes.  Ive always loved the Blue Navy birds but never found the right time to master them.  My goal in the game now is to concentrate and all the USN machines and AH is really coming along nicely with the addition of the F4Fs and SBD.  Right now Im finding the F6F to be what I always figured it to be, a big blue wonderful powerhouse that can do way more than its size might otherwise suggest.  She flights like a genuine pissed off squeak!  The F4U series is also turning out to be alot of fun.  My favourite as it stands now is the F4U1.  What a babe.  Climbs like a rock but once you put the nose down she goes like a lightening bolt, handles well at high speeds too.