Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lazs on March 15, 2001, 08:42:00 AM
-
Yep... the furballs are still pretty good when you can find one in AH these days especially around the carriers but.... they are becoming an endangered species. Wether it is the "well rounded" policy of making (cough) "rank" tied to bombing and vehicle as well as fighter or the simple fact that knocking down a lean too can ruin the fight for a dozen or more guys or whatever...
the furballs have been targeted for extinction by the joint forces of the Amish, the perk and "strat" whor... guys and attention starved and just plain mean spirited. Any furball that gets going good is allmost immediatly targeted by a lone buff who then pinpoint drops a couple of bombs on some leantoos and moves on all proud of himself. End of fun...Of course... if there is nothing to bomb/kill (no strat) then I guess having so many vehicles capable of bombing and or killing buildings is probly the problem more than personality in general. Certainly we have more people wiling to blow up targets than we have viable targets.
Either we need something for the strat guys to do (some actual realistic strat) or we need to harden/protect some or all of the fields. Making unavailability of fighters the sole (choke) strat element is starting to chafe. The action set is getting the short end here and IMO... The strat guys aren't fairing much better. Even with their seemingly bottomless capacity for boredom they will eventually get tired of killing all the fights.
I watched a "mission" last night... A dozen or so of our guys attacked a near field. Said field instantly quit sending up fighters anyway so the attackers fought over the one or two guys stuck in the middle (8 vs 1 at times). At the same time in another spot some other country was doing the same thing to us. End result was that there were no usable fields anywhere near any realistic action.
lazs
-
You poor thing....
-
I understand what you are saying here. It is very frustrating to not be able to get to the action quickly. Kept hearing calls for help at 2 bases had to spend 5-10 minutes in air to get there. And when I did they were 51's and LA's stationed a good 15-18K up. Make them pay for the kill I say, drag them down to aa which is what I had to do most of the time. We had 3-4 grnd vhcls around base as well which shot a couple down chasing me. I think if you have more targets to bomb might make it interesting, and how it might affect the war cause. Have refineries, power stations, Damns <-- really want to see these. More targets mean more opportunities for others to hit, spread the action out and of course high value targets would bring in the buffs, have an airfield near by and you might see some great action up high. This would actually lead us towards the realism some want. Trains we got to have trains, highways that can be bombed for transporting supplies, ships transporting war booty. Interesting though if damns were brought in, destroy one, flood whatever is downstream. That would mean bases and such. Effectively shutting it down for a certain period of time, if you are on the ground when the water comes death for you. I agree more targets is better.
-
HEY YOU GUYS !!! how dare you not play Laszs game AGAIN! eh ?
Go get into the arena and FURBALL it's Laszs wish!
man ... utter non-furballing dweebs all of yas
DW6
-
I watched a "mission" last night... A dozen or so of our guys attacked a near field.
Just so we're clear. If the "mission" you saw was us, (VMF 323), we didn't attack a field. It was our intent to furball, we just called it a fighter sweep (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
The reason I say this lazs is because I saw you in the area we were in and didn't want you to think I'm a "boring" guy ALL the time, hehe.
-
Lazs, Fighter Ace will spawn you 10k feet above a furball. 100% furball. All the time, in all channels, networks and time zones.
Enjoy.
-
duckie... I'm not asking for anyone to play my style or game. All I'm asking for is that those playing the score, perk, strat or even spoilsport game have less effect on the fighter game. I'm asking for a place to play that is balanced with your game.
If there is a place to take off from then I won't (and never have) scream on channel one for everyone to "quick we need furballers at XXXX" I won't need to. furballers don't need to "force" anyone to play their game.
Contrast that with the strat guys who have to come up with all manner of gimicks including begging....to force people to play with em..
No... give us the opportunity and we have no trouble getting WILLING players to furball. Strat guys have to actually figure out ways to STOP the action!
apache.. geeze, that was a fighter sweep? 8-10 guys in each little clump vs one red guy? reduced to fighting over scraps? Wouldnt it have been more fun if there were enemey fighters? I know you bud... I know you couldn't have thought that was much fun.
Admit it guys.... The most fun you have is when a bunch of guys are all mixed up in a huge confused, well matched furball. Ending the fun by blowing up a glorified lean to is not good gameplay nor..... Is it, can it, be considered good/realistic strat.
wobble.. aren't you the little boy who was in tears over losing some of him pwecious widdle perkie points? "Poor thing" indeed!
lazs
-
The most fun you have is when a bunch of guys are all mixed up in a huge confused, well matched furball. Ending the fun by blowing up a glorified lean to is not good gameplay nor..... Is it, can it, be considered good/realistic strat
as usual your opinion stated as Fact and or law. I would love for you to have yer little furball wonderland, at least then all the people who dont care if they win the game or not will be segreated away in some little tardhole and not bothers the folks who actually want to win.
wobble.. aren't you the little boy who was in tears over losing some of him pwecious widdle perkie points? "Poor thing" indeed!
lazs
Yep! got em back too, all 860 of my precious bomber points, hmm thats a tad over 12 Arados for me.
I guess ill be making some appearences at a few of your furballs to "ruin" your game by bombing some FHs.
See ya in the MA furbag.
[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 03-15-2001).]
-
Hopefully TK will end the great, strat, dogfight, debate. You can have your burger anyway you like.
-
True. But in 'TK" don't you have to make that burger yourself? They give you the frying pan and spatula but you supply the rest?
I like sit down with great service (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-Westy
-
all the people who dont care if they win the game or not will be segreated away in some little tardhole and not bothers the folks who actually want to win.
hehehe...
-
Lazs, if you reduce or eliminate the effect that bombing has on fighter hangers, etc. then what reason would there be to fly a bomber in the MA?
That's precisely the point of having fighter hangers that can be killed. If you don't want the strat potatos to ruin your game, then grab more than 5k of alt and kill them.
-
Admit it guys.... The most fun you have is when a bunch of guys are all mixed up in a huge confused, well matched furball.
Actually its as much fun to be below the furball busting 37mm caps in their butts, or being above them in a bomber destroying the enemys resources.
The game caters to a variety of play styles, it would get pretty boring to be locked into furballing all the time.
IMO its balanced pretty well at the moment.
-
some get it some don't. It would appear from all the evidence of every sim I've been involved in, that people like to fight. They like it so much in fact that you have to figure out ways to force them to do anything else. I suppose that some sort of balance needs to be struck or the strat guys won't have anyone to play with but... I think most agree that killing a glorified lean to with a laser guided and risk free bomb is not very balanced if it ruins the fight/game for a dozen or more players.
Yes... I suppose if you must have bombers in the game then you must make some concessions for them and then you must make their conmcessioned out unrealistic bomber have some concessioned out strat to affect.... Yes, i suppose that fighters could spend all their time capping fields in the hope that maybe they would find a bomber (that is really no fun killing anyway) to fight. For most of course.... That is no fun at all.
Point is.... The fields are too easy to make unusable. Point is, for furballers, buffs are no fun to fight and "forcing" us to fight em doesn't add to the fun in the least. They are a non issue at present execept to be a detrement to gameplay.
lazs
-
<S> Lazs. Was it fun? You bet you're prettythang. 8 vs.1? Not where I was. We stayed at 10 to 15K and had fight after fight, which was our agenda and points be damned. I'm talking fight, not zoom down on an unsuspecting con that was tangled up and runnin' for his life. We were fightin' zigrat and sancho, et al, guys like that. Guys that know how to fight.
I will, however, admit that when we were RTB and ran across a con doing the same, hell ya we jumped him.
I've got no beef with you're position on furballin'. As a matter of fact, I agree with most of it. As you stated, you know me and you know I like to dog fight too. I am inclined to agree with you're assessment on the target strengths. I too think they should be a little stronger and maybe add more as well. I too leave buffs alone.
I don't, on the other hand, agree with your stance on "the strat guys". It is my contention that the strat guys draw the fights. I mean, there are fields all over the map one can fly around but I would look kinda stupid furballin' with myself. Where does one go? You go to where the strat guys are 'cause they stirred up the nest.
Later
-
banana wrote:
---------------------------------------------
...if you reduce or eliminate the effect that bombing has on fighter hangers, etc. then what reason would there be to fly a bomber in the MA?
------------------------------------------
If the only targets bombers have are fighter hangers, then I'd say that the bombers need better targets. I think it'd get pretty boring flying around only being able to hit one kind of target.
-----------------------------------------
That's precisely the point of having fighter hangers that can be killed. If you don't want the strat potatos to ruin your game, then grab more than 5k of alt and kill them.
-----------------------------------------
You're saying that when the other guys come in and ruin the game I like to play, if I quit playing my game and started playing their game I could be playing my game.
Explain to me how that works again...
Apache wrote:
-------------------------------------------
It is my contention that the strat guys draw the fights. I mean, there are fields all over the map one can fly around but I would look kinda stupid furballin' with myself. Where does one go?
-------------------------------------------
To Furball Island!!!!!!!!!!
Or that's where one would go for a good furball, if it only existed.
anRky
-Ih8ubb
'Get rid of the bucket!'
-
Just to follow up on Apaches post, first sweep we did lousy, with 11 squaddies, only 6 kills to 6 deaths, 2nd sortie was better, 12 kills 0 deaths...it was funny catching those goon hunters inbetween our field and yours...they were hunting a goon that wasn't there! LOL!
EDIT:"they were hunting a goon that wasn't there! LOL!"....AND BECAME THE HUNTED!
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-15-2001).]
-
what's a "goon" and why would anyone hunt one?
Look, I'm sure it was fun for you guys but when I was around it there just wasn't much happening. It allways looked like there were way too many friendlies for the the amount of enemies I seen. That's fine once in a while but I kinda like a more "frenzied" atmosphere.
Look, All I'm saying is that it seems that lately... For whatever reason.... furballs get shut down allmost as soon as they form. I believe that a lot of guys enjoy furballs and that the way too easy strat is not being very fair to the furballers. I also can't see the challenge to the strat guys.
maybe apache is right ahd that it takes the strat guys to stir things up. I never think of it that way however and most of the guys I talk to online usually just say things like "looks like a good fight at XXX" Unfortunately tho, lately.... they are also saying "yeah but you can't take off from XXX" or you can only have 25% fuel at XXX" followed by "you can take off from XXX but by the time you get to the fight it'l be over" and "oh well had some good ones... thanks guys, loggin".
Like I said... I'm the perennial dweeb/newbie. As such, I don't think it would be such a bad thing for the game and HTC income if there were a place where new guys (and reprobates like myself) could find a fight a little easier and faster. Not asking to have it created at anyone elses expense.... just to let it happen and not make it so easy to shut down.
lazs
-
The more I think about it, the more I am coming around to a furball island. That or 3 or so fields per country with indestructo facilities? Would have to be semi-close together tho, I guess. I just wonder if anyone would be there? Why whould they be unless they were defending the field? Why would you defend an indestructable field anyway? I think I'm talking myself outta this one.
hmmm, ramblings of the incomprehensible.
-
Thats funny lazs, furballs never do last (for me at least) but they are fun fun fun (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Yeager
-
That is why the 3 middle islands in lake uterus are for. Take off them, meet in the middle of the lake and furball your butt off.
But hey, it seems not enough players are willing to do it, so you look for a furball against the strat players which are determined to close out your FH's to end before said furball so the field can be closed.
I think it would be better if the curent map removed the 3 middle islands and put 3 small bases in one small island in the middle of the lake and let Lazs and furball buddies fight it out.
I really dont get what lazs is whining about. You want people to stop blowing your FH's? What?
-
tac... it's quite simple really... blow up the lean to's called "fighter hangers" all you want but just don't make that the thing that shuts down all fighter operations. It should be just a trifle more difficult to shut down all fighter operations at an entire airfield than to simply drop a bomb or two...
There are plenty of great places to furball right now on the map. Places are not the problem. The problem is that they become unuasable much too easily. Make sense yet?
lazs
-
Ok Lazs, point well taken, maybe you have a leg to stand on.
What I take umbrage to is your insinuation that every buff driver is out to "ruin the furballs". That's an over-generalization. First of all, do you have the stats to back that claim up? Do you know the percentages of bombs that are dropped on FH's as opposed to, say, HQ radar?
Secondly, a big ol Chog or two can destroy your furball(FH) just as easily(if not easier) than a buff driver. And the Chog driver doesn't take the 30 mintues to get to altitude, either.
Now, I'm not a dedicated buff driver, and I spent most of my time in fighters, but I do believe bombers should have a role in the MA. Destroying the buff driver's game to enhance the furballers' game isn't the answer.
-
Perhaps allowing x amount of fighters spawn, after the FH's have been bombed, would satisfy both the furballers and the strat guys.
Just realized wulfie said it better. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/008708.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/008708.html)
[This message has been edited by Thrawn (edited 03-15-2001).]
-
lazs has a good point. I'm in the middle ground. Love a good strat game and find nothing more pleasing than a good sweaty furball. lazs mention of the hero's who shutdown furballs is a good one, hardly worthy of a personal attack on him. I too get a little irritated when there's an obvious and BIG furball going on and notice a single lanc fly over and shut it down. Yes, they really probably should stop and think about it, pointless to try and convince anyone of that though. Heck I don't at all mind haveing a field shut down when thats the object. It's when nobody is bombing either side and there's tons of fighters mixing it up...thats when the strat dinks (like me) should hold off on shutting down the fields, maybe join in the fun.
Swamp
-
What makes the game fun is a combination of action and a reason for its existance.
If fields change hands rapidly and both the attackers and defenders have a blast while it is going on, everybody wins.
This stuff where 15 fighters end up milling around over an enemy airfield with nothing to do doesn't cut it. Clearly if these customers wanted to be in bombers or C-47s they would be doing that and not looking in vain for a fight.
I think a lot more fields (i.e. more targets for the strat guys) which are a lot closer together (so Fighters can make it to the fight quickly without taking off under a vulch umbrella) might be part of the answer. Also it would be great if the fields fell easily and rapidly. Rapid changes of ownership lead to frequent seesaw battles where both sides can attack and defend. Maybe give grunts the ability to kill ack and capture fields all by themselves. Maybe, you should be able to capture a field by totally flattening it and then landing an aircraft. Well thought out multiple field capture methods and fields which fall easier would mean that a bunch of fighters would have something useful to do at an undefended enemy airfield instead of just milling around in boredom and then logging.
Frankly, this thing about starving resources out (fighter sorties, radar, fuel or whatever) is just really bad for play. The game will be a lot more attractive if both the conditions of aggressive successful advance and desperate defense are the most action filled and enjoyable events in the game.
One of the best flight sim events I ever recall was a couple of years ago when the MOL attacked one of our fields in brand X. Our squad detected their attack just in time and rolled to resist them. After a short bitter fight they barely took the field. We immediately counterattacked and after a protracted fight, we took it back. They counterattacked and after another protracted fight, they took it again. The fights were incredible but none of this would have happened in the current version of AH because a couple of bombs on some fighter hangers would have hamstrung one side or the other (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif).
This is an air combat simulation (primarily). Since most of us are in here to simulate fighter combat, it should be damn hard to shut down another countries capacity to fight. The ease with which the fighting ability of a country can be locally destroyed entirely undercuts the entire reason for existence of this game.
Hooligan
-
I just want to say the whole "tone" of the game this tour has seemingly changed. Don't know if it's the map, the perk airplanes or what. It's just different and I don't think I like it - furballs or no furballs.
-
I just want to say the whole "tone" of the game this tour has seemingly changed. Don't know if it's the map, the perk airplanes or what. It's just different and I don't think I like it - furballs or no furballs.
HMMM... funny thing is I see it the exact opposite, I'm having more fun than ever.
-
I think AH is perfect (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
-
Another vote for furball island, or fighter town, or what ever you want to call it.
And Laz has made a teling point with:
If there is a place to take off from then I won't (and never have) scream on channel one for everyone to "quick we need furballers at XXXX" I won't need to. furballers don't need to "force" anyone to play their game.
I guess the reason the strat guys are so vehemently against a furball arena is that they have a sneaking suspicion that they'll be flying on their own.
A strat friendly solution may be to have fighters and bombers at different bases; and harden hangers to the point where they need to be egged, not straffed. It's buffs that affect the strat, not fighters. Buffs should (if we're talking realism) be concentrating on strategic targets, not tactical ones.
-
banana... i don't care if the bombs are dropped by a fighter or a bomber and I don't care what particular fighter resourse is shut down, radar or fuel or hangers. It's all too easy to limit fighters but nothing limits bombers except that sane people hate em.
Hooli has a point. The feilds are too tough or too easy... They are too easy to kill the ability of fighters to participate and they are too hard to finish off. It causes people to attack in huge groups and shut down instantly the Fighter ability and then..... the huge group has no one to fight. worse... A lone bomber can go back a few fields where there is no action at all and wipe out several fields ability to have fighters while leaving the rest of the field intact. That is what seems the silliest. That gimicky strat at it's worst. Why would Iwant to participate in such childish strat?
And really... Why should all sfighter operations be suspended if a couple of shacks are roofless? Is it realistic that you can take off after refueling on a "pad" but if you get out of the plane it is zapped away into another dimension or something?
I would be happier about it if fighters could take off untill the field was completely closed or.... If the field was closed the second both fighter leantoo's were killed.
If fields could be taken as Hooli says then even I would participate in the strat. Then even the most anal strat guys would participate in the furball.
lazs
-
I think Vulcan coined an appropriate term for these trolls of lazs' - Masturbleating (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
---
PakRat
63rd FS, 56th FG
"Zemke's Wolfpack"
(http://home.att.net/~ahpakrat/pakrat.jpg)
"I see dead people"
-
Our squad sweeps most of the time...if we can help with jabo by closing hangers, etc. we will.
I agree with lazs that entering a cloud of fighters, always having to keep your SA skippy, rates a more intense pucker factor than drivin a buff half way across the map. Hey...if buff drivin boat floatin GV stuff makes ya happy, then that's the idea, right?
As a squad, we simply look for the biggest red sector bar and go there...I believe most others do the same with fighters.
Truthfully, I look forward to the day when we all can fly in harmony...when Rooks, Bishops and Knights all meet together for real cool formation flying...when...whoa!!!
What happened there? Kinda drifted off a bit.
Sorry (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
------------------
Ice
13thTAS
It's not the Big that kill the Small, but the Fast that kill the Slow!
-
pakrat... thank you for the village idiot point of view. And of course the opportunity to look at the pic of the P47.
lazs
[This message has been edited by lazs (edited 03-16-2001).]