Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Sabre on May 23, 2002, 10:19:15 AM
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It had been a long hard day at work, followed by over five straight hours working over at Jarbo’s place to try and finish the new flight sim cockpits. I was tired and sore, and a bit discouraged that the cockpits were taking longer then I’d hoped. I walked in the house to find my wife standing there in nothing but her bathrobe, an impish look on here face.
“I’ve got something here you’ve been wanting real bad,” she says in a husky voice. From behind her back she pulls…my new Thrustmaster Cougar! Reaching with shaking hands, I move to take this Holy Grail of all peripherals. Closer…closer…my fingers reverently brush the image emblazoned across the box…
Suddenly the radio pops on, ripping away the comforting vale of sleep, and I bolt upright. A deep shuddering breath and I plop back down on the pillow. Throwing my arm over my eyes I groan.
“Just a dream…only a stinking dream!”
My wife rolls over in her flannel pajamas and considers me. “Another Thrustmaster dream, eh?” She ruefully shakes her head, then rolls back over and goes back to sleep.
Come on, Chips&Bits…I ordered it back in December. Ship me the dang thing already! I can’t take much more of this!
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Sorry Sabre, only one thing can stop the Cougar pain...
Stop The Pain (http://www.chproducts.com/retail/usb_home.html)
;)
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LOL ... good story. Took my order from Chips & Bits 2 weeks ago. It is a dream machine. :D
One fault with your dream ... as you will see ... there is no way that your wife will be able to hold the Cougar setup "behind her back". This setup is HEAVY, and surprised the crap out of me when I first picked up the box up.
Hope that is arrives soon for you. :)
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I had just finished mowing the lawn and a neighbor kid had stopped by to have a look at my 71 blazer that is currently unergoing some major engine repair. We were back at the truck when the wife stuck her head out the back door and said "it's here!" There was simply a wrench left spinning on the ground as the neighbor kid tried to figure out where I'd gone. I hopped out onto the front porch and began to explain/demonstrate just exactly what it was that I was so exited about.
Now the wife and the neighbor kid both think I'm wierd.
But at least I got my Cougar. :D
AKDejaVu
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LOL
Great stories....we never grow up...and I'm fighting it off :-)
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
But at least I got my Cougar. :D
AKDejaVu
I hate you:p. Seriously, just checked the C&B site and still no shipping date. The dried drool (from staring at the pictures at the "Cougar World" website) is starting to interfere with proper keyboard functioning. The waiting continues...
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LOL Sabre, you had me going there for a moment. :)
My Cougar is coming from FSC as soon as the next shipment arrives. Although in my case it'll probably be a frying pan my wife will be holding, because she doen't know that I used her CC to ppurchase it!
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
I had just finished mowing the lawn and a neighbor kid had stopped by to have a look at my 71 blazer that is currently unergoing some major engine repair. We were back at the truck when the wife stuck her head out the back door and said "it's here!" There was simply a wrench left spinning on the ground as the neighbor kid tried to figure out where I'd gone. I hopped out onto the front porch and began to explain/demonstrate just exactly what it was that I was so exited about.
Now the wife and the neighbor kid both think I'm wierd.
But at least I got my Cougar. :D
AKDejaVu
Its weird reading about this personal aspect of your life, Vu.
I always thought of you as the Dart Vader of the AH BBS.
So anywyas, do you have to know programing to work with this hting? or is it a GUI programing?
how do the button presses feel? one thing i hated about the F22 was that there was not audible click and tactile feedback when i pressed a button or hat switch.
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I checked tracking every day... from Reno to Sacramento to Roseburg, and finally to Salem and the message "Scheduled for Delivery". Had lunch plans with a friend that day, so I called him and cancelled because "my Cougar is finally getting here! Yipppeeeee!", to which he responded "You need help". Some people just don't understand.
SOB
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Originally posted by Animal
So anywyas, do you have to know programing to work with this hting? or is it a GUI programing?
how do the button presses feel? one thing i hated about the F22 was that there was not audible click and tactile feedback when i pressed a button or hat switch.
Well, it's pretty easy to program, but for inbred third world types such as yourself it may prove difficult. There's also a GUI interface for programming, so you may be able to stumble along with that.
The switches feel much better than the F22 and the hats are simply outstanding. No audible click to the hats, but they have a longer throw, and you can definitely tell what position they're in.
SOB
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Originally posted by Animal
So anywyas, do you have to know programing to work with this hting? or is it a GUI programing?
how do the button presses feel? one thing i hated about the F22 was that there was not audible click and tactile feedback when i pressed a button or hat switch.
You should stop by the Hardware forum and check out the Cougar threads. SOB's thread is probably the most informative.
The Cougar's feel is much better than the F-22 (IMO). The bottons do have clicks and the hats have a better feel too. Virtually every aspect of the hardware is better with the possible exception of the springs, but that's more of an oppinion thing.
As far as programming goes... I don't really have much experience there. I downloaded SOB's aceshigh setup and am using that. Going through the code, though, it doesn't look to be all that difficult (albeit tedious).
AKDejaVu
Come to the Dark Side
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What is that ugly looking piece of plastic junk?
(http://www.chproducts.com/retail/products/usb/f16_fighter.jpg)
Umm.. are those MANUAL trim wheels? I thought only low quality toy joysticks had manual trim wheels...
Ohh.. It's a CH Product. It IS a low quality toy joystick.
Here.. step up to a true simmer's control platform...
(http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/images/cougar/duo1.jpg)
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Bah, thrustmaster with it's faulty pots and buttons that fall off after weeks of use...
Step up to the X45!
hehhee
( I'm just ribbing ya ) :D
Kuben
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While ya wait, start 50lb curls with your right arm. After a few thousand reps you'll be ready for those Cougar springs. ;)
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Couple things you may wanna do when you get your Cougar. Move or eliminate the throttle detents and realign the speedbrake switch. Both are farily easy to do though you will have to pull a few screws to do it. Check out the forum at Frugals World (http://cougar.frugalsworld.com) for details.
Also, there is a bit of slop in the joystick x and/or y axis'. some have gone so far as to make brass bushings to eliminate it. While I am getting used to the springs, some say they are about 30% stiffer than the TM F22 springs, I'd rather have the finer control I had with less stiff springs. So far TM has yet to respond to my request.
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Thanks, Iron...I'll keep that in mind.
Sabre
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One more thing Sabre, don't know if you've used a TM stick before but they eliminated the RAW codes. You may now use USB codes. They work differently in the following manner. I used raw codes to press a key and hold it. Then another action to generate the raw code to release the key. Through trial and error I discovered that the usb code to press a key is cumulative. In other words, press a button that cause a key down code 4 times and you'll have to press the other button 4 times before it is released. Easy to work around but different than raw codes.
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Originally posted by AKIron
While I am getting used to the springs, some say they are about 30% stiffer than the TM F22 springs, I'd rather have the finer control I had with less stiff springs. So far TM has yet to respond to my request.
They may be 30% as stiff as the F22, but definitely not 30% stiffer. The F22 had quite a bit more tension than the Cougar does. And contrary to what you might think, it was very easy and natural to get fine control out of the F22 - the stiffer springs helped, at least for me.
SOB
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Well, what I'm reading at frugals world is that some have been putting the springs from their TM F22's in their Cougar's and are getting about 30% less stiffness.
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Also, the trouble I have with the fine control is very close to the center of the stick. The "break away" pressure is so great that I'm getting a lot of bounce. I don't get this with the much weaker springs in my FLCS. Time to adjust the dampening I guess.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Also, the trouble I have with the fine control is very close to the center of the stick. The "break away" pressure is so great that I'm getting a lot of bounce. I don't get this with the much weaker springs in my FLCS. Time to adjust the dampening I guess.
I've been getting used to this as well, but I guess I assumed the opposite. If you had stiffer springs in there, at some point the "break away" pressure would be less than the pressure required to continue pushing the handle to the end of it's axis. Of course, I'm coming from an F22, which didn't have the "break away" problem either. :)
I heard the same thing here in the Hardware section about the F22 springs making the Cougar less tight. I guess the springs themselves might possibly be of a lower tension, but with the base of the handle being closer to the pivot point on the F22 and the handle itself being much lighter, that may account for the higher tension. There's no doubt tho', the F22 is stiffer next to the Cougar.
SOB
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If the stick were uniformly stiff I think I'd find it easier to adjust to. However, when going diagonal you're fight both springs and the tension is noticeably different. Since TM isn't responding to my queries I'll keep working on adapting. I have found it somewhat easier to use without the rubber boot.
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Thats why I gave my Thrustmaster stick away (literally) and bought my CH Gear, the damn springs were so stiff it felt like I was flying a 109 at 550mph all the time.
CH just seemed to find a good medium between keeping slop out of their sticks, while not making it feel like you were wrestling an Anaconda every time you fly.
I know you Cougar guys are all excited about your new toys ;) But I still prefer the CH Pro Gear :D
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I got mine from FSC a day after SOB got his, I highly recommend FSC to anyone thinking of ordering a Cougar.
I used Revvin's macro file and the Foxy GUI to prog the stick, programming was a piece of cake.
I agree with everyone that the springs take a bit to get used to, especially coming from using a Saitek or MS stick.
I'm currently using CH Pro USB rudder pedals, and although there is no problem while running AH, I'd like to get a gameport set of rudders to use with older games like Falcon 4 and Janes F-15, so I'll probably buy a set of the new TM pedals designed for use with the Cougar when they come out.
I was reading on Fugal's site about someone who'd gotten some Crown Royal bags and was stenciling em up with "Remove before Flight" and using them as covers for the stick and throttle. I thought that was a great idea (except for the stenciling part) and got my wife (whom is a bartender) to bring home a few. I figure when ya spend close to $300 on a piece of hardware ya just gotta keep that dust off of it :D
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Originally posted by Vermillion
Thats why I gave my Thrustmaster stick away (literally) and bought my CH Gear, the damn springs were so stiff it felt like I was flying a 109 at 550mph all the time.
What is it with you guys and complaining that springs are too stiff? What are you, a bunch of limp-wristed weaklings? For cod's sake, get a little exercise or something. We are talking overcoming a pound or two of resistance. Maybe we could ask HTC to paint you a cute little pink plane to fly around in :p
Tell you what I'll do. I will get a pull scale and find out the pounds of force required to move the stick from center to all extremes. I will be willing to wager we are talking 4lbs at the most.
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Seems I read that it takes over 15lbs of force for full defelection of the stick. Can't remember where I read it.
I can tell you this for sure though, I can hold my stick by the handle off the desk at any angle and bounce it as fast as I can move it and it doesn't budge from center. I don't know how much the stick weighs but together they weigh 18lbs. The stick is heavier so probably weighs 10 lbs.
As I mentioned before, I've gotten used to stiffness in that it no longer seems "hard" to move but the center is too noticeable. Try this, pull up the calibration window in AH, try to draw a small circle with the stick. I can't do it with the Cougar but can easily with the FLCS.
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LOL! :)
While I may be a geek, I don't quite think I'm small and spindley.
Now I'm not in the NateDog class of size and mass, but I'm 6'2" and about 210 lbs, and tend to be fairly average in level of fitness.
And let me tell yah.... The movement on the Thrustmaster sticks (my experience was prior to the Cougar, but it sounds to be similar) is a hell of alot stiffier and harder to move than in the real AT6 Texan that I flew an aerobatics flight in. :)
Admittedly its personal taste. But I get much smoother control out of my CH stick, than I did with my Thrustmaster.
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While I'm whining about the stick let me moan about the throttle a bit. They put a lot of work into these things yet simple things like switch alignment (speed brake) and the heavy brake away force for the throttle leave me wondering about their design team.
With the TQS I found it very easy to make the small throttle adjustments sometimes necessary to fly close formation. The Cougar throttle just isn't smooth. I don't know if it's the metal detent bracket, the plastic friction lock, or the plastic bushings causing this. I moved the detents so that I now longer have the irritating clicks but still have excessive break away force. Even with the friction lock so loose that the throttle falls forward under it's own weight the throttle still jerks when making tiny adjustments.
I may be too picky here, but I expected this stick to be an improvement over my 7 year old FLCS/TQS and in a few ways it is not.
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Have to admit, I've gotten used to the stiff springs on the Cougar. Not sure I'd even want weaker springs now.
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I am at the hating my Cougar stage, it has destroyed my game.
There is no need at all for the springs to be so stiff it gets you killed. Fine control is impossible especially at or passing through centre positions the damn stick tries to lock into position I guess that must be very realistic then.
I believe i saw on Cougar world an F16 pilot posted that this stick would never be accepted into a plane because its so stiff it would get you killed.
F22 Pro springs on order if that does not help dunno what i will do, either remove springs completely or pack up and ship out.
Btw if your using Revvins config try below instead for views as these work much better, with Revvins if you want to modify a view you are already holding, it breaks that view to forward and you have to rekey it.
DEF X1 (H1U AND NOT S3)
DEF X2 (S4 AND (NOT S3) AND (H1U OR H1UR OR H1R OR H1DR OR H1D OR H1DL OR H1L OR H1UL))
DEF X3 (S3 AND (H1U OR H1UR OR H1R OR H1DR OR H1D OR H1DL OR H1L OR H1UL)) OR (H1U AND (NOT (H1UL OR H1UR)) AND NOT S4)
DEF X4 (H1U OR H1UR OR H1R OR H1DR OR H1D OR H1DL OR H1L OR H1UL)
BTN X4 F9
BTN X1 /H KP8 REM Fwd
BTN H1UR /H KP9 REM Fwd_Rgt
BTN H1R /H KP6 REM Rgt
BTN H1DR /H KP3 REM Bwd_Rgt
BTN H1D /P KD(KP2) /R KU(KP2)
BTN H1DL /H KP1 REM Bwd_Lft
BTN H1L /H KP4 REM Lft
BTN H1UL /H KP7 REM Fwd_Lft
BTN X2 /H KP0 REM Down
BTN X3 /H KP5 REM Up
MIX 5 3 (0 25 75 100) (/H X7) ^ (/H X8)
MIY 5 3 (0 25 75 100) (/H X5) ^ (/H X6)
BTN T1 F8
DEF X9 (X5 AND T1)
DEF X10 (X6 AND T1)
DEF X11 (X7 AND T1)
DEF X12 (X8 AND T1)
BTN X9 /H KP8
BTN X10 /H KP2
BTN X11 /H KP4
BTN X12 /H KP6
Get rid of your old views and use this it uses hat 1 and also uses snap views, S3 gives you shifted up 45 deg views and S4 shifted down 45 deg views and the mini joystick can be used for pan view but only when you hold the T1 mini joystick button down.
And of course it does not reset any of the views ie you can hold right view and cycle through up and down views without losing your right view at anytime.
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I actually find myself concidering a Cougar now. I dont have the time to fly during the summer, but if Saitek doesnt come up with some good xp drivers this summer I may look into a cougar late summer or early fall. I assume the cougar is compatible with XP?
My X36 serves me fine, I know its a piece of crap compared, but I dont log the hours some do. Im just sick of having to reboot into 98 to play. Id buy one for that reason alone, and the price doesnt seem all that outrageous when you look on Ch's website, $150 for the combat stick and $150 for the pro throttle. "yea I know they can be found cheaper but even at 100 bucks apiece, Its worth the difference to go first class IMO.
But I really dont have the time to fly now...time to think about something else :)
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The Cougar is XP compatible. One thing I found that helped with the stiffness was to remove the rubber boot.
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I use the ministick for pan views and do not have to hold down the button.
Try this:
USE MTYPE A5
BTN T1 /t /p F8 /r KD(mouse_rb)
/t /p F1 /r KU(mouse_rb)
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You guys complaining about stiffness? Heck, the older we get we should be thankful for any stiffness we can get!
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IT'S BEEN SHIPPED!
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(http://communism.net/burzhui/Smileys/whip2.gif)
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Ordered mine Saturday, SHIPPED today :cool:
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Mine is on the brown truck already and will be delivered tomorrow! :)
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AKIron i MUCH prefer having the mini joystick setup for pan view but only when holding the T1 button, having already tried it setup to pan at any time.
I found the slightest inadvertant touch on the mini joystick whilst moving other switches or buttons, would cause my selected view to be altered at the worst possible moments.
As for the stiffness its not so much the fact its hard to move but keeping fine control when tracking a target if the stick is anywhere near centre of an axis, and boy them spring rates sure go up when moving diagonally.
Its possible nobody else is having this problem or they will not admit the stick they paid through the nose for is not perfect.
I know how much fine control i have lost and its burning at my soul, seeing cons escape because i could not adjust smoothly to keep the ammo hitting home hurts.
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Just ordered a Zenoah G38, Robart Oleo's and some Giant scale servo's.. thats killed the hobby budget fer awile.
Guess I'll have ta suffer along with my 6 year old antique serial CH Suite for a lil longer... and when i buy new it'll prolly be CH again. I don't know anybody that has half the hours on TM gear that stayed working that I got on this old CH gear.
Time and agin I've seen and deard about the latest-greatest TM stuff, only to hear about that same much touted TM stuff winding up in a dumpster behind a radio-shack store.
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I've had/used a TM FLCSand TQS for over 6 years. Just replaced it with Cougar. I did do Bob Church's digital upgrade a year or so ago, that breathed new life into it. Pretty rugged equipment.