Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Dowding on May 26, 2002, 09:42:46 AM
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If we're going to start highlighting how 'bad' a particular religion is... here's some more...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/northern_ireland/newsid_881000/881703.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/northern_ireland/newsid_1617000/1617384.stm
...coming soon - The Evils of Hinduism, The Excesses of Sikhism...
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i'm not sure what the links you post have to do with Christianity.
other than the fact that both victims and attackers seem to be Christian (or at least come from a Christian heritage) the fighting seems to be more over political views than religion
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I think we should all convert to Buddism...a truly peaceful faith..
Dowding will undoubtedly find some skeletons in their closet too though..;)
Re: Christianity...
We had some Bishop giving a lecture at Rotary the other day. He was discussing "violence" and the root cause of it in our society. He professed it to be 'land'....it's ownership, and the desire of others to have it.
He went on to say that sometime in the 8th or 9th century the Christian church recognised the need to answer violence with violence...despite the fact that the whole concept of violence was utterly disavowed by the church. They codified it in some sort of document...can't remember what it is called.
After his talk he asked if there were any questions.
No-one replied, but I just couldn't keep my mouth shut...eventually I raised my hand.
I said to the Bishop..."Sir, without trying to sound too combatative I simply cannot reconcile some of what you have said. In your discussion you gave the date of the 8th or 9th century as the Church's edict on the justification of violence when protecting land or property specifically, but also to protect an individual's life and the life of his or her family. Since that time the Christian faith engaged in the crusdades, the Holy Inquisitions and numerous other wars of religion. I repectfully suggest that while land may be stained with the blood of many wars...religion is bathed in it."
His answer..."Ah ok...point taken Sir...are there any other questions?"
I stood there waiting until someone else asked something to break the ugly silence...and then sat down.
Afterwards, the person responsible for thanking the Bishop stared me down and went on to say that "Jesus is our only hope to quell violence"..as he had seen the violence inflicted by one faith on another first hand while serving in the British army throughout the world. I just shook my head and under my breath said "Not if I am Musilm".. The visiting Rotarian from the US who was sitting next to me leaned over and whispered "Or Jewish...like me".
SIGH
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not try'n to be a nit picker here but the Christian faith did not take part in the crusades or the inquisition, the catholic church did. many people have done profoundly evil things under the guise of what they see (or simply justify) as 'Gods will'.
as a Christian I can asure you that neither the crusades or the inquisition where in line with the teaching of the Christian faith, and they where carried out for the same reason most (maybe all) such things are carried out for, spicificly power, money, & property.
in the words of one of my favorite song writers, John Prine-"Jesus don't like kill'n, no matter what the reasons for"
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As long as we're nit-pickin', the Catholic church was the first Christian church. The next i believe was the Lutheran Church and so on. So, yes, it was Christians involved in the Crusades.
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Originally posted by majic
As long as we're nit-pickin', the Catholic church was the first Christian church. The next i believe was the Lutheran Church and so on. So, yes, it was Christians involved in the Crusades.
Correctamundo..........we are all in it together...Catholics, Protestants, Luterans and so on and so on.
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Religions are bad mm'kay?
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LOL dowding, after I saw that other post I thought the same thing as you..hehe.
Reason #1 why Christianity is so great... http://www.jerryfalwell.com
#2: http://www.sounddoctrine.com/
#3: http://www.700club.com
hehe and the list goes on.
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Opiate of the masses.
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the point i was making was Christian faith does not drive people to do those things(it actually forbids it) those are the acts of men for their own power and glory and justifying it to themselves and others by labling it as Gods will
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
the point i was making was Christian faith does not drive people to do those things(it actually forbids it) those are the acts of men for their own power and glory and justifying it to themselves and others by labling it as Gods will
Yes, but this was the same point that this Bishop was trying to make....an Anglican Bishop, by the way.
But, if you look at the sanctioned violence committed on behalf of the church you will find that the Christian faith has as much, if not more, blood on its hands than most other religions. This is the point I was trying to make.
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Quote:
"Opiate of the masses."
I thought alcohol and stupid government social programs were the "opiate of the masses".............
Cabby
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Originally posted by Cabby44
Quote:
"Opiate of the masses."
I thought alcohol and stupid government social programs were the "opiate of the masses".............
Cabby
You havn't read Marx it's in "Critique de la philosophie du droit de Hegel ..." (*)
(*) you can agree or disagree with Marx ... but it's a must read for any debate...
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Thou Shalt Not Kill-
Christianity forbids killing other people.
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Originally posted by fdiron
Thou Shalt Not Kill-
Christianity forbids killing other people.
That rule was written "by God" and given to Moses, when? About three thousand years before the birth of Christ.
Since that time many many Christians seem to have ignored this rule, as has the Church itself. The Vatican Army was the most powerful in the world until the Swiss taught them a little lesson on how to conduct warfare.
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The big G himself appears to be very partial to a killing or 100,000 if I recall my bible correctly...
And the Xian's all want to act more like the big G, don't they?
Take the wrath of God quiz(Part 1) (http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news1100/godswrathquiz.html)
Take the wrath of God quiz(Part 2) (http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0102/wrathofgodquiz.html)
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Human nature often manifests itself in great evil. Sometimes this evil masquerades as religion. The basic teachings of the three great monotheistic religions of the world all stress non-violence. When you condemn all Christians, or all Muslims, or all Jews because of the actions of a few evil men you are guilty of stereo-typing.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the vehemence of your attacks against Christianity, or any of the other religions for that matter, indicates that you have a great degree of animosity, or perhaps outright hatred for these religions. If so, then please explain in what way your own views are any different from those you attribute to them. For what reasons do you hold them in such contempt? Because they try to force their beliefs on the rest of the world? To the best of my memory none of these religions teaches its followers that they should force their religion on others. Some of the fanatics in each religion might attempt to do so, but remember, if you condemn the entire religious community because of the actions of a few you are guilty of stereotyping.
Do you hate them because they try to teach a code of morality for mankind? That seems to be the main problem that many Americans have with religion. Just for the record, I believe that mankind NEEDS a code of morality to rein in its baser instincts. That is what religions do! They would not be religions if they did not teach a code of morality! It might be well to remember that the three greatest mass murderers of the twentieth century, Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Tse-tung had all publicly disavowed religion. They operated completely free of any moral restraints. The terrorists that attacked the WTC masquerade as religious zealots. The thing that all these murderers have in common is their lack of moral restraint, whether they are atheist, agnostic, or religious zealot.
I have known many Christians in my lifetime. Like all human beings they have their faults and weaknesses. A few were genuine saints who devoted their lives to serving the people of their communities. The majority have been ordinary people doing what they could to serve a God that they loved. They do not deserve your contempt. Save that for the few who were absolutely horrible human beings.
Regards, Shuckins
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Errr... I posted in response to the:
"More on why Islam really is so great..." thread (which seems to have dropped off the first page of threads).
i.e. I was pointing out all religions have had their dark moments. Trying to make out one is somehow 'better' or 'worse' than another is purely subjective and doesn't really make for a good debate.
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Quote:
"You havn't read Marx it's in "Critique de la philosophie du droit de Hegel ..." (*) "
Karl Marx is out of date and irrelevant. Except for some 20 year-old college students, some old college professors, and other types with next-to-zero knowledge of a Real Job, no one gives a flyin' flip about Karl Marx..............
Cabby
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You are out of date and irrelevant cabby.
BTW, what "real job" do you perform?
DISCLAIMER:
Licking chimpys boots *doesn't qualify* as a real job. :D
Originally posted by Cabby44
Quote:
"You havn't read Marx it's in "Critique de la philosophie du droit de Hegel ..." (*) "
Karl Marx is out of date and irrelevant. Except for some 20 year-old college students, some old college professors, and other types with next-to-zero knowledge of a Real Job, no one gives a flyin' flip about Karl Marx..............
Cabby
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Do you hate them because they try to teach a code of morality for mankind? That seems to be the main problem that many Americans have with religion.
Wrong. The "many" Americans you speak of have no trouble living with a code of morality. They just don't devote their lives to fairy tales. Big difference. I get the distinct feeling that many "religious" people would be unable to live a moral life without their religion. How sad.
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Nice troll Dowding. Poor reference. You point out a certain group of people who rely on religion to justify outrageous acts WHICH ARE considered illegal by the government in question. Good information, thanks... heard it all before. Go vote someone into office that will do something about it. Should you bother to read the articles I linked to, you will notice barbaric actions carried out BY THE STATE in LEGAL fashion brought on by none other than good ole homegrown Islam.
Call it religion bashing if you want, get in bed with them even.. I care not. I'm not going to defend ANY religion (so sorry, didn't mean to ruin your day). I am however going to point out events that I find nauseating. Why may I ask did you choose christianity to pounce on? Forget that, I don't really care. I do care that things happen to innocent people for the most ludicrous of reasons (Religion... gosh, I can't seem to find a more repugnant religion that Islam right NOW). I am of the opinion that the kind of news I posted NEEDS to be heard more often by more people world-wide, otherwise it won't be long before we have a bunch of Koran toteing brainwashee's running around NY/L.A. LONDON etc etc blowing themselves up in Malls, Schools and other places filled with innocent people. So excuse the hell out of me, but I don't see allot of Christian (or other) based governments running around promoting 9/11's/Isreals/Check my links. Please to don't bother me with the "it's biased reporting" line. If you think it's biased, saddle up and head over to any number of "those" countries, you'll see and hear of much of the same. I have... I will again.
I do not hate Muslims... I hate knowing that a woman in Pakistan who gets raped risks the death penalty if she reports it. I hate knowing a bunch of zealot "cops" would rather see children burn to death rather than the public SEE THIER FACE!!!! But mostly I HATE that ISLAM is WHY these unforgiveable things happen. Any government that relies on strict interpretation of religious text written thousands of years ago to base thier laws is bound to be a real boondoggle, just so happens Islam gets the spotlight in current events.
Last thing, my post was not about me and how many replies I could get (seems you got quite a few ).
There
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Take ireland two kinds off christians making eachothers life miserable.
All believes are goo basicly It is the people at the power who mis uses it and the "simple" people will follow.
divide and rule is the way to control a country it's old as the human race.
This was the tactic used to colonize the world.
Setup 2 groups of people let em fight than come with the bible and sword to make an end and control the area.