Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: LePaul on May 27, 2002, 01:21:06 PM
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I've resisted complaining about this plane on the BBS for a while, instead, taking note of what others have said and think.
(Here's my nomination, Rude...)
I tend to agree with a good many people's thoughts on it. Perk the sonuvasqueak.
Why?
Its among the few airplanes one can jump into (be it flight sim nut, Command & Conquer Junkie or what have you/no skills pilot plane) and be an ace in.
I'm really growing weary of a sky full of these uber planes. They out accelerate, out climb, outrun and outgun everything in the Main Arena. I love a good dogfight, and have no problem dying at the hands of a *skilled* pilot whose mastered his aircraft...some of these planes, I still can't fly well . But dying to an uberly-modeled plane like an La7 is much harder to swallow for me...
So, while abstaining for a while, I completely agree with the "Perk the La7" crowd. We've got last summers F4-C problem all over again, in the La-7 :mad:
Or make something we can counter it with...say, a F-16 Fighting Falcon complete with Sidewinders (which Im sure it could out manuever lol)
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U will need something armed with AIM54C to damage the beast, aim9 will only cause it to smoke forever.
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hmm for some reason most people in the hth never fly the la-7. on occasion they fly spits. then some total moron comes in and complains on our board. funny how the MA is a breeding spot for no talent n00bs who can kill you good pilots
if you can get killed by a N00B your NOT good. a good pilot can kill almost any enemy in ANY plane. people complain about my hurri because it can kill a N00B in a spit. thats not luck thats skill and n00b retardednesss...force a HO on the idots those hispanos will take care of em.
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If the La-7 is such a good non-perk plane, then when I fly it I should do better than in any other non-perk plane I fly, right? And if there is a plane that I do better than a La-7, then that plane should surely be perked before the La-7. I mean after all, my skill is the same regardless (skill level = not very good).
So in light of that... Perk the Spit V. I'm much better in it than I am in the La-7!
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Originally posted by LePaul
I've resisted complaining about this plane on the BBS for a while, instead, taking note of what others have said and think.
(Here's my nomination, Rude...)
I tend to agree with a good many people's thoughts on it. Perk the sonuvasqueak.
Why?
Its among the few airplanes one can jump into (be it flight sim nut, Command & Conquer Junkie or what have you/no skills pilot plane) and be an ace in.
I'm really growing weary of a sky full of these uber planes. They out accelerate, out climb, outrun and outgun everything in the Main Arena. I love a good dogfight, and have no problem dying at the hands of a *skilled* pilot whose mastered his aircraft...some of these planes, I still can't fly well . But dying to an uberly-modeled plane like an La7 is much harder to swallow for me...
So, while abstaining for a while, I completely agree with the "Perk the La7" crowd. We've got last summers F4-C problem all over again, in the La-7 :mad:
Or make something we can counter it with...say, a F-16 Fighting Falcon complete with Sidewinders (which Im sure it could out manuever lol)
It's funny how people scream to perk a plane instead of using sound, well thought out tactics against these "uber" planes.
The only plane that should be perked is the Me262 and if you can't kill one of these so-called "uber" planes like the La7, Niki, Dweebfire, etc...then maybe you need to think about contacting a trainer for some much needed help. Here's one tip that will get you going, it's not the plane but the pilot that makes the difference...
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
Ack-Ack
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders
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I agree that the LA7 is a great menace.
If buffs become more of a threat, I hope we see many more planes cruising at a high altitude which may be the great equalizer on the LA7, though I've read lately the LA7 actually performs well up there too. I'm no aircraft expert, but if we see higher altitude activity, I'd guess an increase in the LW and P-xx useage. On a side-note, if we are going to have an increase in buff numbers, I'd like to see contrails which can be used to help determine their altitude.
I fly the F4U-1 and here's what typically happens to me in a large MA furball:
1. An LA7 spots me and he runs me down forcing me to turn which thereby causes me to lose a great deal of my speed which is now gone forever due to the poor acceleration rate of the F4U-1.
2. There are, of course, twenty Spitfires flying around in the furball and two or three just happen to be there when the LA7 forces me to turn and the Spitfires dive down forcing me to turn even more and now I'm hovering on a stall in my wallowing pig of a 'hog'.
3. I'm back at the tower grumbling about them "no skill" aircraft.
4. I come back with an altitude advantage and dive down sweeping through the furball targeting some target fixated LA7 or Spitfire and then run and get called a no-skill dweeb by whoever it is I've forced into the silk.
:D
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Here we go again. :rolleyes:
Why is it that as soon as someone cant figure out how to kill a plane they yell "Perk it!"?
I cant say that I really run into them that much, but when I do I really dont see that they are that great. I have flown 'em a few times and all of you folks yelling about their uberness must be on crack or something. Aside from speed, I dont see what they got that makes it such a monster that needs perking.
1. They dont turn that well.
2. They have terrible guns with bad ballistics.
3. Very small ammo load.
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Mr. Nifty: <>
I have to disagree with my fellow Mongrel. You cannot compare an aircraft you know like the back of your hand with one you have very little experience in. I'd hate to see you flying an LA7 if you had the same amount of experience in it like you do in a Spitfire (actually, I would fear you in anything you fly.) Take an inexperienced pilot and place him in the LA7 and F4U-1 and see how he does, and that's a good way to compare the aircraft.
I don't say perk the LA7, I say UNPERK the F4U-4. (I'd love running down LA7s....heh heh )
woof!
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Everytime I post there's a new one.
<<1. They dont turn that well.>>
Compared to what?!? With the way that thing accelerates, it should be an excellent turner.
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Originally posted by Steven
Everytime I post there's a new one.
<<1. They dont turn that well.>>
Compared to what?!? With the way that thing accelerates, it should be an excellent turner.
It sure dont. I think it sucks overall myself. Only time one hardly ever kills me is those real good bnz types who fly it. Ammo load sucks turn rate sucks and it sucks over 18k. Perk it? sheesh...
:p
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The problem is guys, is that the usage numbers say that your full of crap. The La7 is not even the most used aircraft, and if I remember right it wasn't even in the top three. Unlike the F4U-1C which totally dominated the rest of the aircraft in usage numbers, when it was perked. I say perk the Spitfire !! ;) Its used a hell of alot more.
Steven, the La7 has approximately the same sustained turn rate as the P51D Mustang. Is it a "great turner?". Again, if I remember right its 360 degree turn times are within a second of the P-51D.
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Originally posted by LePaul
Its among the few airplanes one can jump into (be it flight sim nut, Command & Conquer Junkie or what have you/no skills pilot plane) and be an ace in.
That is total BS. Not one fact is present.
curly
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I think the problem with the LA-7 is that there are quite a few planes that it out performs in all respects. Most planes can out-turn the LA-7. Those planes have an out when confronting an LA-7.
The planes that turn worse than the LA-7, however, are really in a bind. They certainly can't out-climb or out-run it, and out-diving isn't a great option either.
Most planes have at least one handling advantage over any other plane. The LA-7 seems to be ubber in all respects to many others.
eskimo
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The thing with the La7 is, that it can controll the fight. If the La7 is facing anything except an La7, it can controll the fight. It can engage when it wants, and it can disengage when it wants. For somthing that was made outta wood, it also seems pretty strong. As i have said in the past, i am all for giving the La7 a small perk value of 2 or 3 say, and giving other planes, like the p51 or Dora a small perk value too, of 2-3.
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A lot of you know more about all this than me, so this is a good learning tool for me.
I know the LA7 has monster power and acceleration and I always thought this was a big factor in turning. As you slow down you have less G available generally and also, the biggie, you lose the ability to pull the nose above the horizon to make a chandelle and thus shorten the actual distance travelled horizontally. The LA7 can make up for any defficiency in airspeed in a dofight very quickly and better than most other aircraft. And though I've never flown the LA7, I'll bet it's low-speed characterstics are better than my F4U-1 ;).
Are sustained turns measured strictly in the horizontal? I have no clue, but if so, then I would think it has little to do with an actual dogfight. I'm reminded of how the powerful F-4 Phantom II was instructed to fight against the tight-turning MiG-17 Frescos....use its power and acceleration to advantage. Once an LA7 herds most other aircraft types low it's just a matter of time, it seems to me. Knowing the LA7 turns about the same as the P-51 and assuming the LA7 has more power available, I'd be sure to maneuver with my nose slightly higher in an LA7 in that situation.
Seriously, I don't think the LA7 really needs to be perked. But it is a monster and I'm very wary when I meet one without a clear altitude/speed advantage. So, tell me how I kill an LA7 in my F4U-1 when we meet on equal terms at the merge, head-on.
Unperk the F4U-4 though, it turns at a rate less than the LA7!
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Perk the La7?
Learn to fight it instead.
I've flown it a lot since it's introduction to AH and with the exception of it's acceleration there is absolutly nothing uber about it.
Guns: Terrible balistics. You have to be within 3-400yds for most kills...unlike the 6-800yd .50's and Hispanos. The guns suck horse hockey, now if it had Hispanos....
Speed: Although it has great low alt speed but it compresses above 450mph to the point where a P51 can easily out turn it. The La7 bleeds E quickly and a good La7 pilot will use that to their advantage. A simple barrel roll will quickly put you in position to get on it's 6 since the La7 can't follow you through it if he's in a high speed persuit. Nothing uber about it's speed other than it's acceleration at low alt.
Toughness: Although people have complained about this a lot there is good reason for it's ability to absorb damage because of it's wooden construction. However, I've been killed from D1000 by someones .50's all too many times and cannon rounds will shred it just like any other plane in AH.
Turning: At optimal speed it turns great , bleed it's E and it's a dump truck with wings. I can stay in a turnfight with a Spit for 2 maybe 3 turns before I have to look for and escape route...nothing uber about it's turning capibilities.
People have a habit of looking up ones scores to support their La7 whine, that their are looking at scores shows that they think that having a good score or rank is the telltail factor of an uber plane tells me that they haven't a clue.
I have enough perks to last a lifetime in AH the way I use perks...that is not an issue for me. What is an issue for me is people comming in here trying to force HTC to perk a plane that has some very good qualities and some very bad weaknesses solely on their experience of getting killed by it.
"I flew it some, it's too uber...perk it" is not learning it's weaknesses, do so and you'll have no problem fighting them.
Back to the AH whine network :D
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LePaul: "They out accelerate, out climb, outrun and outgun everything in the Main Arena."
1) Actually I do not agree with "outgun". Fact is LA7 guns have quite bad ballistic.
2) "outrun" -- low alts only
3) "outclimb" -- low alts only
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Agree Lepaul.
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Yeeps!
I just wandered back to the BBS expecting 3, maybe 4 replies (or flames) and see 17. Yikes!
AKCurly....you wouldn't be a lawyer now, with ya? (With talk like that!). May I supeona (sp?) some dweebs from the Main? hehe
On 3 occasions this weekend, I've had Ar 234s, with their wings screeching and making those "go any faster, you wont have wings" sounds (550 mph), La7's have climbed and caught up to me, and lobbed their cannons at me and scored kills. Poor ballsitics my arse :D
Some of you guys make some good points, but from my chair, this is dejavu of the F4-C thing all over again.
Thanks for entertaining my thoughts :)
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Originally posted by LePaul
On 3 occasions this weekend, I've had Ar 234s, with their wings screeching and making those "go any faster, you wont have wings" sounds (550 mph), La7's have climbed and caught up to me, and lobbed their cannons at me and scored kills. Poor ballsitics my arse :D
Got film?
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Shut up!
LA7 sucks. So do most LA7 pilots.
No perk here....
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On 3 occasions this weekend, I've had Ar 234s, with their wings screeching and making those "go any faster, you wont have wings" sounds (550 mph), La7's have climbed and caught up to me, and lobbed their cannons at me and scored kills. Poor ballsitics my ars
I don't see how exaggerating to the point of outright lying is going to help your La7 boo hoo cause.
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Originally posted by LePaul
On 3 occasions this weekend, I've had Ar 234s, with their wings screeching and making those "go any faster, you wont have wings" sounds (550 mph), La7's have climbed and caught up to me, and lobbed their cannons at me and scored kills. Poor ballsitics my arse :D
Some of you guys make some good points, but from my chair, this is dejavu of the F4-C thing all over again.
Thanks for entertaining my thoughts :)
I have had an la7 diving after me and not catching me till I ran out of gas. Even with one engine.
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Hey Pyro! Ya'll mind putting a 5 point perk on the LA-7?
Thank you sir. :)
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Man, I hate the La-7.
When I am flying my prefered ride and I see an La-7 that is anything like co-E, I can only hope he goes for the HO. If he doesn't, I die. It out runs, climbs, dives, accelerates and turns my prefered ride. Verm, it out turns P-51Ds, I know because my prefered ride out turns P-51Ds and not La-7s.
My prefered ride is the Mosquito Mk VI.
I despise La-7s.
That all said, perk it?:confused: Are you nuts? Its not perk worthy. Its not versatile enough, it is not good enough and it is not used enough.
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We have the ta152 perked because at high altitudes it easily outperforms just about anything. Spend 10minutes climbing above everyone, then waiting for someone else to, and you can outperform them!
We also have the LA7, which on the deck, outperforms just about anything, Sure it can't turn all that well, but it accellerates so fast, the option to run is always there. Plus the la7 does 400mph on the deck, which I think says it all. Spend a few seconds taking off and you can already outperform just about anything you need to deal with. The only real disadvantage I see on the la7, is the need to get close into your target, but with it's speed, thats not difficult.
La7 should cost 2-3 perks. Cheap enough that a good sortie in it will pay for it, but enough to slow down the dweebs a bit.
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Quit whining about it and starting learning how to kill it, if you go into the fight thinking it's uber you'll never beat it. A poorly flown La7 is a cheap kill, a well flown La7 is a challenge. Oh and flying with a wingman helps too. ;)
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My prefered ride is the Mosquito Mk VI.
Why does a Mosquito outturn a P51D?
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Lower wing loading and higher powerloading I think.
All I know is that in AH I can slowly gain on a P-51D in a turning duel. If he BnZs me I have real problems though.
Mossie out turns the Bf109G-6, but not the Bf109G-2.
P-51D:
Wing area: 235sq.ft
Powerplant: one 1,695hp V-1650-7 Merlin Vee
Empty weight: 7,635lbs
Empty wingloading: 32.49lbs/sq.ft
Empty powerloading: 4.5lbs/hp
Max weight: 12,100lbs
Max wingloading: 51.49lbs/sq.ft
Max powerloading: 7.14lbs/hp
Mosquito FB.VI:
Wing area: 454sq.ft
Powerplant: two 1,620hp Merlin 25s (3,240hp total)
Empty weight: 14,300lbs
Empty wingloading: 31.5lbs/sq.ft
Empty powerloading: 4.41lbs/hp
Typical takeoff weight: 19,500lbs
Typical wingloading: 42.95lbs/sq.ft
Typical powerloading: 6.02lbs/hp
Max weight: 22,300lbs
Max wingloading: 49.12lbs/sq.ft
Max powerloading: 6.88lbs/hp
My most common loadouts for the Mosquito in AH are the overload of ammo, 50% or 75% fuel and no bombs or rockets. I usually use it as a fighter.
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As i understand it, the perk system isn't because plane X flys well or not but instead to regulate the numbers flown. All this to achieve the arena balance HTC feels is appropriate and any parallel to any other reasoning is purely coincidental.
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Originally posted by sling322
Got film?
Im pretty sure I do, come to think of it, I tend to record most of my jet flights in the event of a disco and such.
Isn't it something how some people can only flame when a topic is introduced. Atta boy, Creamo!
Karnack, you've hit on it pretty good....perhaps you are the wiser man here. Perhaps perking isn't the right approach...but the *^$#@ La7s just seem to out do most of the inventory we have :( I thought La7s were relatively rare in real life?
Also, good point on the Ta152
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And so it begins again. HTC is not going to perk the La7, people. You're just going to have to deal with it.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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BUILD A FIGHTERTOWN ARENA SO THE SPITTIES AND LA7S CAN PLAY WITHOUT POOPING ON EVERYONE ELSE'S FUN!!
:D
Tumor
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Originally posted by Karnak
Man, I hate the La-7.
....
That all said, perk it?:confused: Are you nuts? Its not perk worthy. Its not versatile enough, it is not good enough and it is not used enough.
Hear hear!
I hate Laffers as well, basically because most fights happen down low where it really shines, but it isn't perk-worthy.
Short legs, short clip, and bad guns will always make it something of a specialty plane. Think of it as the Anti-Hurricane.
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Blue Mako, I respect your fighting abilities and thus wouldn't think you'd have too much trouble fighting an LA7 in your pony or a section of ponies. I did ask how to take on an LA7 in an F4U-1 and am attempting to learn how to fight against the monster but so far no words on that subject. Maybe you have some suggestions for this non-star MA combat pilot. The same thing to the rest of you who have stated in this thread the LA7 is not that difficult to kill. And I'm talking about when I get stuck low and encounter one from a position of near E states.
Unperk the F4U-4 and I'll not ever complain about the LA7 again. I promise. :D
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I don't particularly care for the LA-7 myself. I fly it when I just got gangbanged by 5-6 cons and I want to be invincible for a flight or two.
People who say "It is the pilot, and not the plane" are fools if they think the PLANE has absolutely nothing to do with it. Lets take two hypothetical pilots of equal skill. One is silly and flies the 109E-4, one flies the Spit IX. They meet in a co-alt, head-on situation. Who's going to win? Well, you never can tell, but I'd say the Spitfire has a pretty good chance of winning that one. It is faster than the 109, it turns better (although not much better), it rolls twice as fast, it accelerates faster at all speeds, it climbs better, it dives better (duh), it has at least twice the firepower. But lets take this one step farther. The 109 pilot is an uber-ace. The Spitfire is a complete newbie. Who's going to win that one? I'd guess probably the uber-ace, but it isn't guaranteed by any means. Well, lets try it the other way around. The Spit IX pilot is an uber-ace, and the 109 pilot is a newbie. Who's going to win that one? Spitfire, hands down. 10 out of 10. Why the difference? Well, in the equal skill test, one pilot has all the advantages in every category that matter in air combat (and probably all the ones that don't too). In the 109's an ace scenario, the pilot obviously has much greater skill and experience to draw on, but he has to 'get inside his opponents head' to win- he has to understand what the Spit is going to do and counter it before it actually happens. In the Spit's an ace scenario, the Spitfire pilot has ALL the advantages. He has a much more worthy plane, and he is a more experienced and skilled pilot to boot.
To me, the La-7 is a necesary evil. It is a good plane that offers many advantages so that relatively unskilled pilots can have success and feel good, and keep their accounts. It has a good solid financial reason to be in the game. It is uber beyond belief? Nope, not in my opinion. A good 109G-10 or P-51D pilot CAN take on a lesser skilled opponent in an La-7 and have a good chance of winning the fight. The performance advantages that the La-7 offers aren't THAT much over and beyond what planes like the P-51D, 190-D9, 109G-10, or Typhoon offer. It is faster than all the planes listed, it accelerates better than all the planes listed, and it turns better than all the planes listed- but it the LA-7 screws up he doesn't have THAT much of a comfort zone to fool around in. Above 10k, I'd actually take a G-10 over a La-7.
About the firepower- the La-7 does not lack firepower. In hangar tests the cannon were found to be as effective as Hizookas in taking down hangars (they fire faster, but do less damage). My 'best' sortie ever was in an La-7, I got somewhere in the low 20's (with 3 or 4 rearms). The guns are NOT anemic, they are actually quite effective. Even the ammo loudout isn't too poor- it doesn't have the 240 RPG (or something like that) of the F4U-1C- but 150 RPG is fairly standard in nose mounted cannon.
Anyway, give it up about having the La-7 perked, it isn't going to happen. Firstly, it has a sound economic reason for being, and secondly, even if it were perked they'd just move to the P-51 or Tiffie (or perhaps Spit IX or N1K2, depending on how they like to fight).
Although the folks telling people they are 'whiners' just because 'they don't know how to fight and get killed by LA-7s' don't really have a leg to stand on either in my opinion. The 'whiners' have a very valid point in that the LA-7 DOES offer a plane that requires much less skill to fly than any pre-1944 plane, and somewhat less than even those.
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I MUST break into song!
"Perk 'em all!
Perk 'em all!
The large and the fast and the small.
Perk all the Nikkis and all La's too,
Perk anything that can shoot back at you!
`cause they're asking to just perk 'em all
As back to their Gruppen they crawl,
There'll be constant crying
as long as they're dying,
So cheer up, my lads,
Perk 'em all!
Nobody knows if the FM's are true,
So cheer up, my lads,
Perk 'em all!"
:D
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Innominate the Spitfire Mk9 still outclimbs and outturns the TA152 above 35k (yes I've had a 36k fight against a spit9 at that alt).
Second, it takes more then 10 minutes to climb high enough to outperform most fighters.
Third, almost nobody follows you up there so if you want a fight it's sub 20k where most fighters can challange you easily. Specially in Speed.
Fourth, The TA152 is undermodelled.
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Originally posted by Steven
Blue Mako, I respect your fighting abilities and thus wouldn't think you'd have too much trouble fighting an LA7 in your pony or a section of ponies. I did ask how to take on an LA7 in an F4U-1 and am attempting to learn how to fight against the monster but so far no words on that subject. Maybe you have some suggestions for this non-star MA combat pilot. The same thing to the rest of you who have stated in this thread the LA7 is not that difficult to kill. And I'm talking about when I get stuck low and encounter one from a position of near E states.
Unperk the F4U-4 and I'll not ever complain about the LA7 again. I promise. :D
If the La7 and I are above 20k, I use normal E tactics against it. If the La7 is on the deck and has some nice energy built up, I try to burn his E down by forcing a vertical fight and then forcing either a turn or yo-yo fight when I've burnt his energy sufficiently. For me, forcing the turn fight is the easiest way in a P-38 to shoot down the La7.
Ack-Ack
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Yeah but a P38 easily outturn an LA7.
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The F4U-1C has 5055 kills and has been killed 2479 times.
F4U-1C k/d Ratio 2.0
The La-7 has 21600 kills and has been killed 16980 times.
La-7 k/d Ratio 1.3
k/d 1.3? No big deal
Btw, if you say that "a newbie in a La-7 is no threat, but an Expert is", then I have a Perk System modifier for you:
As soon as you have earned a certain ammount of Perk Points, the La-7 becomes unavailable to you. Earn even more Perks and the Fw109D-9 is barred.
This carries on untill you reach uber-expert-status and the only Plane available to you is the C.202, or the Me109E-4 :)
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dont take this wrong but u guys r whining like those spit dweebs when they get killed...if u dont like ppl fly'n the plane figure a way to killl it or deal with it
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Wilbus: exactly my point. There are unperked plane(s) that should be perked, and perked plane(s) that shouldnt. (Or various details need to be rethought)
Originally posted by robsan
The F4U-1C has 5055 kills and has been killed 2479 times.
F4U-1C k/d Ratio 2.0
What I get a kick out of is that the f4u4 has the same kill ratio as the f4u-1c, for five times the perks and a gangrape tag. (Also meaning it's normally flown more carefully than the C-hog...)
Am I wrong?
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Ahaa, My Appologize Innominate, I missunderstood you :)
I agree with you 100%.
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I despise the LA-7 and if I take every feasible opportunity to down one of the mothers.
I can't say anything about it beeing over- or undermodeled. It's a very good, late-war plane. It performs better than most other planes at low alts.
And I don't have a problem with it. Take that LA-7 vs. a 190D or 109G at 15k, you get one dead LA-7. Meeting a LA-7 in a 190D or 109G on the deck most likely means defeat (at least for me)
The LA-7 is an enemy, not a victim, and that's fine. No need to perk it.
dtx has 10 kills and has been killed 6 times against the La-7.
A6M5b, Kills of LA-7 in: 1 , killed by LA-7: 1
Bf-109 G2, Kills of LA-7 in: 2 , killed by LA-7: 2
FW-190A5, Kills of LA-7 in: 7 , killed by LA-7: 3
And that in my 2nd tour in AH.
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La-7's are just like litle baby seals
just hit em and finish em
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Wohow! Bug, is that a quote from me about the P38???
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Isn't it something how some people can only flame when a topic is introduced.
I don't see how exaggerating to the point of outright lying is going to help your La7 boo hoo cause.
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The La-7 was not a rare plane. Almost 6,000 were manufatured during the war.
That's a hell of a lot.
All of the plane-shot-me-down whiners use the F4U-C as credibility for their argument. The F4U-C was used MUCH MUCH more than the La-7 is currently used, it has a great jabo loadout, and can launch from a carrier deck.
How does that compare to the La-7? It doesn't. The La-7 is a great fighter, specifically under 10k, but so are a lot of other AC in the MA. Like the other great fighters, the La-7 has a fairly low ENY value.
Where is the problem?
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Originally posted by devious
I despise the LA-7 and if I take every feasible opportunity to down one of the mothers.
I can't say anything about it beeing over- or undermodeled. It's a very good, late-war plane. It performs better than most other planes at low alts.
And I don't have a problem with it. Take that LA-7 vs. a 190D or 109G at 15k, you get one dead LA-7. Meeting a LA-7 in a 190D or 109G on the deck most likely means defeat (at least for me)
The LA-7 is an enemy, not a victim, and that's fine. No need to perk it.
dtx has 10 kills and has been killed 6 times against the La-7.
A6M5b, Kills of LA-7 in: 1 , killed by LA-7: 1
Bf-109 G2, Kills of LA-7 in: 2 , killed by LA-7: 2
FW-190A5, Kills of LA-7 in: 7 , killed by LA-7: 3
And that in my 2nd tour in AH.
Devious, like you, I don't find the La-7 to be a significant problem. Then again, guys like me who fly it enough to learn how to use it, ARE a major problem to others.
Here's some current tour numbers to chew on:
Against the La-7, I'm 30/5
In the La-7, I'm 85/15
These ratios are just about the same, meaning that it's as much tactics as anything else. Once you know how to fly the La-7, you will also know how to fight them and kill them. Know your enemy.
How about these: 10/3 against Dora, 5/1 flying it - 50/7 against P-51, 33/8 flying it. Again, it boils down to learning how to exploit the strengths and weaknesses of each type. To learn this, one must actually spend some time flying each type.
In addition, I have killed the La-7 in the following types:
P-51B
Fw 190D
Bf 109F-4
La-7
N1K2
Hurricane
F4U
F6F
Seafire
SpitXIV
Ki-61
Finally, I have similar or better K/D ratios in many other types:
Ki-61: 37/7
Hurri IIC: 71/13
SpitIX: 23/5
Yak-9U: 21/5
F4U-1C: 53/13
Typhoon: 14/3
It's not a matter of individual flying skill (I'm not a talented dogfighter), it's a matter of knowledge and tactics. Knowing the strengths and weaknesses of your plane and that of the enemy, and employing tactics to take advantage of those factors is 95% of the game.
If I, an average pilot in many respects, can defeat the La-7 without major difficulty, then I suspect that most could do the same once they gain the requesite experience.
You will find that some folks will belittle you for not playing the game the way they want you to. Ignore them. The simple fact of the matter is this: Good pilots (not necessarily the most skilled at furballing), are masters of the ambush. Killing La-7s is mostly a matter of having the tactical advantage at the outset, and/or being able to take advantage of opportunies as they arise.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
Devious, like you, I don't find the La-7 to be a significant problem. Then again, guys like me who fly it enough to learn how to use it, ARE a major problem to others.
Here's some current tour numbers to chew on:
Against the La-7, I'm 30/5
In the La-7, I'm 85/15
These ratios are just about the same, meaning that it's as much tactics as anything else. Once you know how to fly the La-7, you will also know how to fight them and kill them. Know your enemy.
How about these: 10/3 against Dora, 5/1 flying it - 50/7 against P-51, 33/8 flying it. Again, it boils down to learning how to exploit the strengths and weaknesses of each type. To learn this, one must actually spend some time flying each type.
In addition, I have killed the La-7 in the following types:
P-51B
Fw 190D
Bf 109F-4
La-7
N1K2
Hurricane
F4U
F6F
Seafire
SpitXIV
Ki-61
Finally, I have similar or better K/D ratios in many other types:
Ki-61: 37/7
Hurri IIC: 71/13
SpitIX: 23/5
Yak-9U: 21/5
F4U-1C: 53/13
Typhoon: 14/3
It's not a matter of individual flying skill (I'm not a talented dogfighter), it's a matter of knowledge and tactics. Knowing the strengths and weaknesses of your plane and that of the enemy, and employing tactics to take advantage of those factors is 95% of the game.
If I, an average pilot in many respects, can defeat the La-7 without major difficulty, then I suspect that most could do the same once they gain the requesite experience.
You will find that some folks will belittle you for not playing the game the way they want you to. Ignore them. The simple fact of the matter is this: Good pilots (not necessarily the most skilled at furballing), are masters of the ambush. Killing La-7s is mostly a matter of having the tactical advantage at the outset, and/or being able to take advantage of opportunies as they arise.
My regards,
Widewing
Agreed Widewing. I'm a mediocre pilot at best. Knowing thine enemy is very important.
The La7 is really not that big of a threat, nor is it flown nearly as much as 2 or 3 other types I can think of.
Heck, even as mediocre as I am, since tour 24 I'm 68-9 against it in all types of a/c. I'm batting 1000 this tour, 10-0 woohoo!
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Arguing to perk the LA-7 is useless since we all know it won't be. As it has been said by a few posters, there is a need for uber planes so that newbies can have a ride they can kill in. The problem comes when the experienced pilots won't give up the training wheels. This won't change either so in short, deal with it!!!.
It has been mentioned that the LA-7 bleeds E fast, I beg to differ with this based on an experience I had this weekend in the MA. Trying to help a countryman I dove to the deck in my P47-D30 to clear 2 LA7's from his tail. I closed to within 900 at a speed of aprox. 450+ At 900 distance the two LA7's Hi yo yo'ed to evade my closure. I continued straight figuring the yo yo would have bled of enough E on them, after all I was at 450+ MPH. I take a look back and I got the same 2 LA7's closing on me Arse from 500 distance, and I am still at 450MPH. Now either the pilots were dammed good and pulled two simultaneous zeroG yo yo's or that friggn plane is just flat uber. And the best part is that after I cleared my countryman's tail he continued on his merry way as I got banged by the 2 LA7's.
I say don't perk the uber planes as dweebs need them to feel at home. But if you have been flying for awhile, have gained enough skills to hold your own in the MA and are still upping in Spits, Nikies, and LA7's....Your nothing more then a lousy sheep raper :D
Avid
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No offence widewing and apache, but both of you guys are far from mediocre. Same with Lazs. You guys are good. ;) Not Leviathn in a Spit V good, mind you, but good nonetheless! :D
La-7s below me are lunch. La-7s above me are annoyances. La-7s in a furball where I'm scrambling under 3-1 (or worse) odds are deadly.
hmm, I think I can safely say that about every fighter plane in the game! :)
edit: unperk the Ta-152 for the June tour and see what it's usage and stats are. I would venture to say it's usage after a tour or two (give the hype surrounding it a chance to die down) wouldn't merit any perking at all.
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This is only a semi-related issue, but
what about a new stat, that would appear next to kill ratio, a sort of perk-ratio. So flying a n1k, la7, etc all the time would tend to count less than doing well in a "real" plane.
It would be a ratio of perks given vs perks earned(excluding the end-of-sortie multiplers)
f4u-1 and a n1k2 kill each other 5 times(5 kills each, 5 deaths each)
f4u-1 earns 20 perks, gives 1.25 perks, giving a ratio of 16.0
n1k2 earns 1.25 perks, gives 20, giving a ratio of 0.06
So while both show the same kill ratio, the f4u-1 pilot is shown to be winning against superior opponents.
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These perk arguments always seem to focus on the fleeting 1-v-1 engagements. In the heavily populated MA, 1-v-1 is rarely seen.
The LA7 has very good 'uber' qualities for speed, guns, turning, small size (harder to hit) etc.
It's not that it is hard to fight one, it's that when you get stuck fighting 3 or 4 of them and you see 3 more coming that you don't have a chance. When you finally get a shot, you make it quick or forget it, otherwise the other 3 will be all over you before you can blink.
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I can always tell when a newbie reads a thread like this. They are the ones in the La-7 pointed straight down at 500 knots. It just pisses me off that I usually cant get close enough in time to get the maneuver kill.
We need to perk the Spit IX because newbies fly it and always HO with the turbo-lazer-hispanos. We need to perk the N1K2 because newbies fly it and always HO/Turn/Fly-like-a-UFO. We need to perk the La-7 cause newbies can be an ace in it.
The term "newbies" has become the perverbial "they" or "them". I can tell when a newbie is flying any of these aircraft because they still fly like newbies. These planes do not make them better. If a newbie is shooting down a vet in anything... it is because the vet let his guard down. Its time to stop making excuses.
I fly one of the slower planes in the MA and have NEVER had problems with the La-7. I can only remember loosing one 1:1 engagement with one... and he started with an alt advantage.
I do know that the La-7 is a tough plane to kill when flying an F4u-1D (or c perhaps) because they have comparable turning abilities and the La-7 is faster. But then... the P-51D/B does most things better than the Fw190s too. And the Zeke does most things better than the C.202. So what.
AKDejaVu
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I personally liked Toad's song.
La7's are not an issue....a 51D or D9 or typhie, flown well can reak havoc in the MA.
My take is that some of you just can't handle that aircraft and are not willing to make the necessary adjustments to kill it. I guess it's easier for some to not want to play rather than to just tough it out.
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
The term "newbies" has become the perverbial "they" or "them". I can tell when a newbie is flying any of these aircraft because they still fly like newbies. These planes do not make them better. If a newbie is shooting down a vet in anything... it is because the vet let his guard down. Its time to stop making excuses.
Bingo, right on the mark.
My regards,
Widewing
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I am a newbie.
Flying an N1k2 or la7 makes me better. But, I always feel dirty flying those planes, so I avoid them.
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Excellent post widewing !!!
Enuff of the La7 ... Lately all I have been seeing are hordes of 190s and 109s hovering above the "fight" waiting for the opportunity to dive/strike/zoom and its really pissing me off because I can't catch them ... they dives too fast and they zoom too fast, so it probably should be perked !!! ... NOT !!!
What I have learned (key to widewings point) is to wait/avoid and let them make the first mistake where they are not able to zoom ... bang ... your dead. Or, from alt, watch the boom/zoom and meet them at the zoom point ... bang ... your dead.
I flew the La7 quite a bit in Tour 26 and 27 but rarely this tour due to the lack of ammo. Its not the least bit intimidating to me because I know what it can do and what it can't.
Also, never, and I repeat never, have I been able to CLIMB, even with WEP, and reach speeds of 500+ mph in an La7. If it is possible, I would like to know how its done !!!
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Originally posted by Innominate
I am a newbie.
Flying an N1k2 or la7 makes me better. But, I always feel dirty flying those planes, so I avoid them.
Please ... please ... please don't get caught up in the "only real men fly (name your plane)" crap. You will become a one-faceted myopic pilot.
All this "uber" talk is just a built-in excuse for those that get their butts handed to them consistently by one type of plane. They haven't figured out how to beat the plane or they get into a fight that they were destined to lose right from the onset, because their "non-uber" plane just wasn't built to fight a particular type of fight.
Just the other day, I was in a Spit IX and had an La7 on my six, so I turned and turned, and he turned and turned. I figured after the second turn, he would break and run because I was now starting getting on his six. Well, he didn't ... one more turn and that's when he decide to break ... too late ... he lost all his E and momentum and I sent him back to the tower. He then started yelling "uber Spit". My response ... BITE ME !!! It wasn't the plane, it was his stupidity. He never should have turned that many times with a Spit IX. He had plenty of opportunity to change the fight characteristics but he chose to try to fight an La7 like a Spit IX. He was doomed before the fight started.
My recommendation ... fly the plane best suited for the situation.
Last tour, when the country situation was balanced differently, I flew the F6F alot because we flew alot of JABO missions. This tour, we have been on the defense quite a bit, so I have been flying the Spit IX alot. I don't give a rats bellybutton what anybody says about any plane, I fly what I want and I pick my plane according to the situation.
For strict JABO ...
Mossie or 110 - Both destructive with kick-ass cannons.
For JABO and CAP ...
F6F - Decent all-around fighter once ordinance has been delivered (this is my preferred JABO ride).
P-51 or P38 - Great BnZ and can fight low once ordinance has been delivered.
F4U - Got to keep these guys fast.
P47 - Very destructive. Tons of .50s. Gotta to keep this fast also.
For Air-to-Air ...
Anything I feel comfortable and deadly in.
Sorry .. not trying to hijack this thread ... just tired of all this "uber" crap.
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Most of the fighters available are pretty decent MA rides with their share of advantages and disadvantages. Of course there are a few fighters that are best suited to the MA environment and the La-7 is clearly one of them. No matter what gets perked, something else will always pop to the top of the list as the "best MA ride".
The La-7 is a damn good plane, but hardly a monster. If it gets perked then does HTC have to perk the Dora, N1K, Spit IX and P-51 next? I suppose eventually everything should be perked and we will all be flying 109Es and the arena will finally be fair to the delight of all?
Hooligan
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IMHO
The two planes i fear most in AH is the Yak and the LA-7.
But, ill avoid a Yak before more often than the LA.... one reason 9 times out of 10 the pilot in the Yak is a darn good stick.
a well flown LA-7 is hard to beat as well. although alot of novice pilots will choose the 7 so most times the odds are better to fight the LA-7 over the yak. many times i have sit in my chute or the tower scratching my head saying " how on earth did that ruski plane kill my uber 51?"
then, my next thought is.... sheesh if the US and RAF had those rides we would of won the war in a week. so why didnt we have them send us their LA-7's and Yak's on the lend lease?
we have debated many of the planes here.
we cant really look at the K/D ratios on the score pages. because it comes down to one thing pilot skill.
If you know your ride and can use it to your atvantage, fly smart ect....ect... chances are you will be a dangerous adversary.
i can normally tell on the merge if im flying against a good pilot.
somtimes i get fooled tho just fight your ride to its potential. if ya get killed try to learn what went wrong and use that bit of knowlage on the next flight. sometimes it takes many terrible deaths to learn some lesson. but thanks to this being a simulation we can afford to take our time learning lessons.
if ya just up to furball until you die that is going to throw the whole K/D ratio thing off by a mile.
so perk it? im not sure.
BTW im pretty much a skillless Dweeb so flame away :D
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Originally posted by rabbit
IMHO
The two planes i fear most in AH is the Yak and the LA-7.
But, ill avoid a Yak before more often than the LA.... one reason 9 times out of 10 the pilot in the Yak is a darn good stick.
a well flown LA-7 is hard to beat as well. although alot of novice pilots will choose the 7 so most times the odds are better to fight the LA-7 over the yak. many times i have sit in my chute or the tower scratching my head saying " how on earth did that ruski plane kill my uber 51?"
then, my next thought is.... sheesh if the US and RAF had those rides we would of won the war in a week. so why didnt we have them send us their LA-7's and Yak's on the lend lease?
we have debated many of the planes here.
we cant really look at the K/D ratios on the score pages. because it comes down to one thing pilot skill.
If you know your ride and can use it to your atvantage, fly smart ect....ect... chances are you will be a dangerous adversary.
i can normally tell on the merge if im flying against a good pilot.
somtimes i get fooled tho just fight your ride to its potential. if ya get killed try to learn what went wrong and use that bit of knowlage on the next flight. sometimes it takes many terrible deaths to learn some lesson. but thanks to this being a simulation we can afford to take our time learning lessons.
if ya just up to furball until you die that is going to throw the whole K/D ratio thing off by a mile.
so perk it? im not sure.
BTW im pretty much a skillless Dweeb so flame away :D
Rabbit, from what I've seen, you are anything but a "skilless Dweeb". If I were to run across you in your 51 I'd expect to be very busy indeed.
You are right about the Yak-9U. I avoid them in the P-51B, until I have worked my way into a position of advantage. Likewise, the Yak is one of my favorites for tackling Mustangs, Doras and G-10s. By and large, it's probably the best balanced aircraft in the planeset. It's only weakness is its light armament, and consequently, limited ammo load-out. Still, if you discipline one's self, only taking the high percentage shots, it's possible to get 5 or 6 kills per reload. Another weak area is high altitude performance. The Yak requires precision, unlike the Niki with its 800 cannon rounds, where pray and spray is an acceptable method for many. For high work, I prefer the P-51B, unless I'm chasing Buffs and Lancs, where I'll take a G-10. My experience with the B-Pony is that it is slightly more agile than the D-Pony. I've had some really good 1 on 1 fights between my B and some Ds. One in particular was a great brawl with xPadre starting at about 22k, ending at 8k. We met Co-E and Co-alt. I prevailed, partially due to the P-51B having the edge in handling and agility. As xPadre and I discussed after the fight, it doesn't get any better than that. In this type of engagement, there are no losers, regardless of who survives and who doesn't. As it was, xPadre's only mistake was not expecting me to begin my reversal before we actually passed on the merge. That gave me the initial tactical advantage. Still, it was a hard fight, and one mistake on my part would have placed the shoe on the other foot, so to speak. Likewise, xPadre made no errors beyond allowing me to reverse first.
Being aggressive on the merge is another key to defeating the La-7. Since it turns a bit better than the Mustang, you had better begin turning first. If the La-7 pilot is smart, and sees you start to turn, he will extend and get enough lateral separation to allow him to reverse safely. If he extends, make your reversal a climbing turn. This will allow you the advantage of stored energy should the La-7 reverse later. Should the La-7 also climb, you are right back where you started, but you have not surrendered any advantage. Moreover, the higher you go, the performance gap widens in favor of the Pony. Eventually, the La-7 will have to run to avoid dying.
My regards,
Widewing
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thank you sir :)
Flew 51-B tonight and had a great time. i didnt wanna get back in my shiny Caddypony :)
i was beating up LA's pretty good. and you are right with all that you mentioned in the above post.
being aggressive is the only way to be with a LA, or any adversary. riding the fine line of agressive and foolish is kinda hard sometimes. losing ones SA causes serious injury or may even result in Death!
it is the pilot that screws the pooch first that dies. if ya can take atvantage of it. ( i normally have to have folks let me saddle right up on them and wave a red flag)
i am amazed at some of the dumb bellybutton mistakes i make and still manage to live and even get a few kills.
really if ya dont wanna deal with an LA-7 dont cruise around under 15k they arent worth a crap ( unless they are well flown) at much over that alt.
i wouldnt perk it. could make it availible at only select bases? that would be a new twist. once the base is gone the ride is gone unless ya buy it or hot pad it? would even make alot of folks fight the aircraft a bit more careful if there was a chance that they wouldnt get another ride until the base was recaptured( jus a thought)
/0
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<>> -Midnight
Not all of us fly ponies day-in and day-out. A pony has some sort of chance of escaping. I once tried to boom an LA7 in my F4U1 but missed and then proceeded with the zoom part due to a deep fear of the LA7 and I had to get back to base due to very low fuel. It was an area to the outskirts of a furball. I had great speed and put some distance between me and the LA7 but he knew...he knew. I think the guy even dropped out of icon range but he finally gained on me and after several minutes caught me. 1v1 on the deck, F4U-1 vs LA7. I ended up stalling into the ground. I turn, I lose E. LA7 turns, he loses E but he has the power to regain it too, I don't. I can't figure out how to be victorious in this situation against a halfway decent LA7 pilot. And don't get me started on the Yaks either! lol
Don't perk the LA7. Unperk the F4U-4 and I'll never whine about an LA7 again! :D
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I am pretty new too, only just now gettting to be a little bit more dangerous to to others than myself. The fighter I have been flying this tour almost exclusively is the 109f4. I checked my stats and I see in the 109f4 I have killed 9 La7's with the loss of 2 109f4's.
If I can kill them trust me anyone can.
I used to think they were ubar, I think alot of it is mental. You hear about how ubar they are supposed to be enough, maybe you start to belive it?
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Originally posted by Steven
<>> -Midnight
Not all of us fly ponies day-in and day-out. A pony has some sort of chance of escaping. I once tried to boom an LA7 in my F4U1 but missed and then proceeded with the zoom part due to a deep fear of the LA7 and I had to get back to base due to very low fuel. It was an area to the outskirts of a furball. I had great speed and put some distance between me and the LA7 but he knew...he knew. I think the guy even dropped out of icon range but he finally gained on me and after several minutes caught me. 1v1 on the deck, F4U-1 vs LA7. I ended up stalling into the ground. I turn, I lose E. LA7 turns, he loses E but he has the power to regain it too, I don't. I can't figure out how to be victorious in this situation against a halfway decent LA7 pilot. And don't get me started on the Yaks either! lol
Don't perk the LA7. Unperk the F4U-4 and I'll never whine about an LA7 again! :D
Puke, I'm far from a know it all super ace but a question. Why didn't you use the remaining strength you had over the La7? I would even go as far as saying 2. One being roll rate, the other, stall fighting. Granted, the F4U-1 has a wicked wing stall when slow but using the -1 roll rate, couple a notches of flaps, get the La7 slow and he's usually dead meat. Stall fighting is not one of the La7's strong points.
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Apache, I didn't want to set the whole fight up and it's been a while. I can't remember who I fought and he may have a different perspective which would help to understand the whole thing. But basically I was very low fuel and had to land and our base was basically under enemy attack so I had to leave the area. As I left I saw a low N1K and LA7. I started after the N1K but decided not to get embroiled in that and lose E with that LA7 there. If I recall right, the LA7 was below me and basically heading easterly as I was heading westerly. He did one of those climb up beneath me moves and I pushed the nose down and slowly made my way to the deck. This guy followed me and for a little bit I thought I'd make it but he then began to gain on me. At one point I headed towards a friendly dot on the map for help only to see that it's a high friendly Lanc. About this time I had to do something. And yes, I did try to get him slow, I turned and put out flaps and all that. But the F4U-1 has an even nastier stall characterstic than the other F4U's and I ended up dipping a wing into the dirt. I gave a smile to my enemy and commented that I would've had him had I not stalled because I was so light of fuel. He was confident I would not have and now we will never know.
Gimme a free F4U-4 or Bearcat and I'll never whine about an LA7 again! :D :D ;)
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My deal with the La7 is that it performs on par and better than some of the perk planes, so why is it free ? I say either make free some of the lesser perk planes or perk the La7 .
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Originally posted by Samm
My deal with the La7 is that it performs on par and better than some of the perk planes
It does but with very narrow limits.
The fast speed is negated by terrible handling at high speed.
The guns ARE good but only within a very short kill range.
Low alt capibilities are great but are stictly limited to low alt, at anything above 8K it's below average.
She turns great at optimum cornering speed but also bleeds E so quicky that the durration of optimum turning ability is very limited.
so why is it free ? I say either make free some of the lesser perk planes or perk the La7 . [/QUOTE]
Only if the other planes are given the same kind of limitations...let the LA7 perk BS die already.
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Originally posted by Samm
My deal with the La7 is that it performs on par and better than some of the perk planes, so why is it free ? I say either make free some of the lesser perk planes or perk the La7.
Plenty of planes perform on par or better than perk planes depending on which criteria you apply.
The Spit V'll outturn every single perk plane in the game. The Typhoon will amply outaccelerate the 262 at low speeds. The La5 is faster than the F4U-1C. The Hurricane IIC's guns are more lethal than the Spit XIV's.
Few would argue in favor of perking the Spit V, Typhoon, La5, or Hurricane IIC. By the same token, I don't see why the La7 should be perkworthy because it outperforms some of the perk planes in certain categories.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Oh man Nifty, you swole up my noggin' Thanks dude. :)
Last night I was kickin' Leviathn's arse but then my wife rolled over and woke me up.
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Originally posted by Apache
Oh man Nifty, you swole up my noggin' Thanks dude. :)
Last night I was kickin' Leviathn's arse but then my wife rolled over and woke me up.
np bro. Glad you guys are flying Knight for awhile. I've seen Hooligan around, and Grabeski's already cleared my 6 on more than one occasion. Though I wouldn't recommend shooting at Lev right now, killshooter is a bad thing! ;)
don't let puke fool ya. He handles himself pretty well in that F4U-1A. In fact, he smoked a La-7 last night in it, IIRC.
La-7 shouldn't be perked. It's a fantastic plane, but by no means a Spitfire XIV, or even a F4U-4.
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Yes if that were the case, but it's not . By performance I mean agility, speed, and leathality collectively . It's not a case of "it does one thing better than this plane, and one thing better than this plane." like the planes that you made refference to. The fact is it is faster than the majority, accelerates better than the majority, climbs better than the majority, has better firepower than the majority, has a good ammo load . And unlike most of the very fast planes it is substantially manuevreable . It is a better plane than the ta152, yes you can argue that it isn't but c'mon, keep it real . And certainly better than the f4u1c .
It isn't a huge menace to me and it's usually flown by suckass pilots . I don't care if it is ever perked in the ma . I just said that it is as good as, if not better than some of the perk planes yet it is free, which is true . That is the only justification for it ever being perked in the ma . It is regularly perked in the ct .
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Same here, dood is an excellent wing.
Just thot I'd drop that note in here since it was brought up.
Kanthy
Originally posted by Nifty
Grabeski's already cleared my 6 on more than one occasion.
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Want to beat an La-7?
SCISCOR IT.
That thing's monster acceleration will always make it put itself in front of your guns. Get a few shots into it and the La7 will either turn to evade (aka you get him easy) or runs/dives away.. and you just stay hi and keep a watch on it... thats all there is to it.
The problem with the LA7 is that its unperked BUT its as fast as perked planes. That's the real issue. I wouldnt mind seeing this plane put at a 2-5 perk cost. The La-5 is far deadlier anyway.
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Perk da dweeb widow maker!
(http://website.lineone.net/~roling46/Fighters/71.JPG)
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Please explain why you think the la5 is far deadlier than a plane that you think should cost 2-5 points .
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Originally posted by Samm
Yes if that were the case, but it's not . By performance I mean agility, speed, and leathality collectively.
[/B]
I'd rank the La7 about on par with the Spit IX if you're going to create an index of desirability. The Spit is slower and doesn't accelerate as well overall, but it's far more agile at just about every speed, maintains excellent performance at high altitudes, and possesses a lethal gun package with plenty of ammo. It's not as survivable because it lacks the La7's speed, but we're looking at the big picture here. Should we perk the Spit IX too?
It's not a case of "it does one thing better than this plane, and one thing better than this plane." like the planes that you made refference to. The fact is it is faster than the majority, accelerates better than the majority, climbs better than the majority, has better firepower than the majority, has a good ammo load . And unlike most of the very fast planes it is substantially manuevreable .
[/B]
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I'd guess that the La7 is only faster than some of the perked planes, and even then only at low altitudes. Have you ever seen the F4U-4, Tempest, or even Spit XIV accelerate? Lightning quick. And come on, there's no way that you can argue that the La7 possesses a better guns package than a majority of the perked planes. The Spit XIV has the same gun loadout as the Spit IX. The Tempest and F4U-1C have four 20mm Hispanos. The Ta-152 sports a couple of 30mm and 20mm cannons with plenty of ammo. The 262 is the best of all with four 30mm cannons and plenty of ammo to go along with them. In addition, the F4U-4, Tempest, Spit XIV, and 262 all climb at or above 4k/minute, easily equal or better than the La7.
High speed manueverability for the Spit XIV, Tempest, and 262 is excellent. I should dig up a film I made the other night of my 262 manhandling a co-alt, initially co-E La7. It was an obviously unfair fight from the getgo.
It is a better plane than the ta152, yes you can argue that it isn't but c'mon, keep it real . And certainly better than the f4u1c .
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The Ta-152 excels at what it's intended to do. Think Dora with better guns. As for the F4U-1C, I'd like to see the La7 lug as much ordinance, spew forth as much 20mm Hispano death, take as much damage, and be able to take off both CVs or fields. The Hog was an all-around unbalancing monster.
It isn't a huge menace to me and it's usually flown by suckass pilots . I don't care if it is ever perked in the ma . I just said that it is as good as, if not better than some of the perk planes yet it is free, which is true . That is the only justification for it ever being perked in the ma . It is regularly perked in the ct .
I disagree that it's just as good as a "majority" of perk planes. All of the perked planes would rate higher on the index of desirability in my book when you look at the big picture.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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<<
SCISCOR IT.>>> -TAC
I must be running into the wrong pilots then, because every time I attempt to throw one out front of me and scissor it, he laughs in my face and pulls up to keep from overshooting me in the horizontal. Then all he has to do is cut throttle and stay behind me because an F4U isn't going anywhere...it certainly will not out-acclerate the monster to get away and it isn't going to out maneuver it. It's at this point I know how a mouse feels when cornered by a cat.
Did I mention that if you unperk the F4U-4 or give me a free Bearcat I'll stop whining about the LA7? (Of course, it's mostly tongue-in-cheek.) ;)
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Originally posted by Steven
he laughs in my face and pulls up to keep from overshooting me in the horizontal. Then all he has to do is cut throttle and stay behind me because an F4U isn't going anywhere...it certainly will not out-acclerate the monster to get away and it isn't going to out maneuver it. It's at this point I know how a mouse feels when cornered by a cat.
Going verticle when someone tries to scissor you is the proper move if you want to retain your E and get your guns back on your target in any plane I would imagine . If you find yourself in this situation a lot I would take a serious look at your SA. Getting caught on the deck is, IMO, a clear indicator that you haven't thought out your attack properly...YMMV as always.
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Samm: The La5 can knife fight, the la7 cant. it has the almost the same dive ability, can go to almost the same top speed. The LA5 doesnt accelerate as well as the la7, but its still darn good accelerator when you compare it with the other arena planes. Of all planes I find the La5 to be THE toughest plane to beat.
Steven: The La7 cant turn that well. Sciscoring it will turn the La7's greates asset, its acceleration, against it and make it overshoot. Now, if he pulls nose up to not overshoot (when he's inside d400), YOU pull nose up and do vertical sciscors with it, where again, the LA7's accel will put in in front of you. Alternatively, you can start a tight spiral climb.. the la7 cant turn well, especially at slower speeds (which if he pulled up he'll be slower).
If La7 pulls up before he's inside d400 then you can either dive and try to bait him into coming in so fast the next run he will overshoot OR you can make him turn with you.
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I fly the La7 almost exclusively. I neither think my self as a dweeb or a noob to simulated flying. At my present level in AH, I regard myself as an average to good pilot.
I fly the La7 for its low level speed. My guns are bad. My turn rate worse. But I would be a poor La7 if I did not apply the same basic tactics employed by the majority of pilots in the arena, regardless of aircraft.
1. Energy retention.
2. SA.
3. Ability to use the aircrafts strengths and avoid its weaknesses.
When I fly the La7. I avoid conflict with certain aircraft. I choose my victims. I avoid the HO whenever possible and prefer to wait for the right AoA.
In part it is the plane which allows me to survive. But only because the pilot is thinking all the time and aware of his limitations and strengths.
I have been beaten by supposed weaker aircraft because it was piloted by a better pilot.
Air Combat is not about perking the planes. Tho I agree with the perks on those present, simply to keep the sky from being full of them. Hardly the La7's problem there. Air Combat is the pilot.
If you believe your plane Uber enough to survive an encounter and rely solely upon that, you will die. Plain and Simple.
Basic everyday tactics, SA and forethought. Planned exit points. Planned AoA's and simply common sense will see ANY pilot in there the better on the day.
You just have to be a better pilot than the next man. Please dont perk the pilots!
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No offence Spook, if you had balls, you'd fly the La-5 like I do.
I'm a BIG russian aircraft fan (love the Yaks and the La's - no Mig's though :( ) and I consider the La-7 the 320Hp Camero of the skies. It's fast, it's ugly, it turns like the snot, and it's a meant for dickheads. :D
Fork
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<<>> -TAC
You must not fly the F4U-1 that much. ;)
Yes, textbook this all sounds fine but rarely does it play out so in Aces High. The last thing I want to do is get slow in a hog, against anything but especially against an LA7. I doubt I turn any better than him at low speed and I guarantee you my accelerated stall is nastier than his.
Going vertical a lot of times is going to get me slow and if I attempt any roll I'm going to get a funny yaw and then I'm in some trouble. From my little experience, the F4U-1 is about one of the worst climbing fighters in here. Once the hog gets slow, it just wallows...you can't roll and you certainly can't turn and you now have to fight a stall and the enemy aircraft. The difference is, the LA7 can actually affored to slow down vs the F4U-1 because he can regain his E in a snap, whereas the F4U-1 is going to be wallowing in the mud for a long time. This excess acceleration leads to an E advantage and he can keep behind me by putting himself in out-of-plane maneuvers. I guess it sounds to me that I can get a few snapshots off on an LA7, but if I don't make the rounds count, he's going to use his excess acceleration to get around on me. Typically I avoid the LA7, but maybe I need to start just getting into the pit with one and learn from a few hard knocks. Trouble is, where there is one, there are three other LA7s and fifteen Spitfires. Hey, I appreciate your advice and trying to help me. I'm all ears on this stuff and I'm actually here for the challenge of success.
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oh yuck. f4u-1. :)
Flat sciscor then man. Or barrel roll 'em. hehe.
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Tac,
After posting that last msg I went in for a flight in the MA and encountered a low LA7. I got film of the encounter if you want to look. You won't be able to feel it, but you'll see that I scissor an LA7 and get SLOW! Once slow, I can't do much. I'm successful in this endeavor and he leaves me, but he does it with his acceleration and just points the nose up and leaves whereas I can barely keep my nose on the horizon. Had it not been such a furball, he would've stayed with me but smart man didn't want to get slow. I finally chased his tailpipe and got him though. Anyway, if you want to see what happens in a scissors with an LA7, I got film for you and let me know if interested, I can e-mail it to you. Anyway, thanks again for your tips.
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f4u is an easy snack for an la7 on the deck.
Unless you have a huge e advantage, the la7 needs to seriously screw up to die. If you're in an f4u, on the deck, with an la7 who isnt a horrible pilot on your six, you'd might as well just lawndart.
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I didn't say majority of perk planes . Of course it doesn't do everything better than the majority of the perk planes . You said it is equal or better than some of the perk planes, so it appears you agree with me . If someone needs pursuading that it is as good a fighter as some of the perk planes I'm not going to waste my time on them . Don't try to teach a pig to sing .
Lol tac still says the la5 is much better but he's in favor of perking the la7 not the la5 .
So you are arguing that the ta152 and chog is better than the la7, I knew somebody would try . Remember keep it real .
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I don't see why the La7 should be perkworthy because it outperforms some of the perk planes in certain categories.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Really ? You don't ? Because that's the only reason some planes are perked .
The common denominator of all perk planes with the exception of the chog is speed . Now some are going to say "yeah but it's not super extra fast at high alt" . Oh you mean like the tempest ? You mean up high where nobody fights ? So. The ta152 isn't super extra fast on the deck .
If someone still doesn't understand this I'm not going to waste anymore time on them . I think dead just likes to argue, but as I pointed out allready he agrees with me .
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Because that's the only reason some planes are perked .
The common denominator of all perk planes with the exception of the chog is speed . Now some are going to say "yeah but it's not super extra fast at high alt" . Oh you mean like the tempest ? You mean up high where nobody fights ? So. The ta152 isn't super extra fast on the deck .
very good point. and maybe more so since it is good at lo alt?
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Originally posted by Samm
I didn't say majority of perk planes . Of course it doesn't do everything better than the majority of the perk planes . You said it is equal or better than some of the perk planes, so it appears you agree with me . If someone needs pursuading that it is as good a fighter as some of the perk planes I'm not going to waste my time on them . Don't try to teach a pig to sing .
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Go back and read what I've written, and you'll find that you've completely misunderstood just about everything I'm arguing. I've already stated that just about EVERY plane is better or equal to some perk planes depending on which category you examine. The La7 is no different, but if we create an index of desirability as you've suggested, the currently perked planes would be ranked higher due to an overall proponderance of excellence.
Lol tac still says the la5 is much better but he's in favor of perking the la7 not the la5 .
[/B]
I disagree with Tac.
[/QUOTE][/B]So you are arguing that the ta152 and chog is better than the la7, I knew somebody would try . Remember keep it real . [/B][/QUOTE]
Overall, I would definitely consider them better... the CHog in particular. Nothing in AH matches its combination of sheer lethality and accessibility. There's a reason it possessed 20% of the arena kills back before it was perked, and it would probably still hold a disproportionately large percentage if it were unperked today. Like I said... I'd like to see the La7 lug 1000 pound bombs, rockets, and drop tanks from a carrier or airfield. The F4U-1C is an unmatched attack platform.
The Ta152 is the Dora on steroids with incredibly lethal guns and plenty of ammo. It's certainly a better, faster buff interceptor than the 110G2. If it were unperked, it would quickly gain a following among the current 190 drivers. It already possesses a K/D ratio greater than either the La7 or the Dora, both of which are highly survivable planes. Underrated.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Samm
The common denominator of all perk planes with the exception of the chog is speed . Now some are going to say "yeah but it's not super extra fast at high alt" . Oh you mean like the tempest ? You mean up high where nobody fights ? So. The ta152 isn't super extra fast on the deck .
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No, the common denominator is a combination of factors that greatly enhance survivability. Those include speed for sure, but also climb rate, acceleration, lethality, and performance at all altitudes. Do you honestly think the sky won't be filled with Ta152s if they're unperked? You're kidding yourself.
Your Tempest example also misses the point of looking at the overall picture. By including such a narrow criteria as simply speed at low alts, you're missing the bigger picture. The Tempest is at least as fast as the La7 if not faster. It accelerates like a monster. It climbs like a rocket. It turns well, and it handles great at medium to high speeds. In addition, it sports four 20mm Hispano cannons. So while it doesn't excel at high altitudes, it utterly dominates at the lower ones. The La7 has nothing on it.
If someone still doesn't understand this I'm not going to waste anymore time on them . I think dead just likes to argue, but as I pointed out allready he agrees with me .
Keep deluding yourself.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Basically it comes down to if you think the La7 is better or as good a fighter than some perk planes . Most players I think beleive that it is, and I think they're right . I think arguing against something that is imo appearant is only hurting your cedibility . I should add that I don't want to see the La7 perked . I just think the point that I've seen put forth, that the La7 is equal or better than the lesser perk planes is a valid one .
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If i'm wrong here, please someone say something,
The ta152 is perked mainly because of it's excellent high-altitude performance.
The la7 doesnt need to be perked because it's only good at low altitude.
There is something wrong here, seeing as virtually all fighting is low level, and when it's not, hitting the deck is always an option. It would seem to me that either, the ta152 should be unperked based on the la7 reasoning, or the la7 perked based on the ta152 reasoning.
Then again, I'm still new, so I could be completly and utterly wrong.
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I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I'd guess that the La7 is only faster than some of the perked planes, and even then only at low altitudes.
Ok just making sure this wasn't a product of my delussions . You say I'm deluded, but you want us to believe that the f4u1c is a better fighter than the La7.
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Do you honestly think the sky won't be filled with Ta152s if they're unperked? You're kidding yourself.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Actually this is already being tried. The Ta152's are free in CT, they aren't filling the sky and further has a negative K/D ratio of .97:1 (Even the 109E has turned in a better performance for goodness sake!)
In some cases perking doesn't matter. Some planes, regardess of perks, are just overshadowed by others in actual everyday killing ability. People will fly planes bacsed more on that than anything else - unless there is a suitable reason to do otherwise.
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The Tempest is at least as fast as the La7 if not faster.
right, that's why it should cost more.
It accelerates like a monster. It climbs like a rocket. It turns well, and it handles great at medium to high speeds.
You just described the La7.
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No, the common denominator is a combination of factors that greatly enhance survivability.
Yes, the common denomitator IS speed . You see all the perk planes are faster than any plane that is not perked . Oh wait, no they're not, there is that one russian plane .
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Originally posted by Samm
You just described the La7.
Or, the Yak-9U.
My regards,
Widewing
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The La-7 turns well at NO speed. It turns average at low speeds, not too bad at medium speeds, and doesn't turn well at all at higher speeds. A Mosquito can follow a La-7 through turns, rolls and vertical moves at 350+. It rolls reasonably well at medium speeds, and rolls poorly at higher speeds.
Over 300mph, a CHog will out roll and out turn a La-7. I'd even venture that'd be true down to 250mph. The La-7 has better top speed low alt, and better acceleration low alt. It doesn't turn better at speed, which is what you're basing the La-7's uberness on. Armament? Don't even try to take the La-7 into the CHog's realm there. 2 shvaks (200rpg) or 3 b-20s (150 rpg) does not come close to 4 Hispanos (230 rpg for 2, and 232 rpg for the other 2). The La-7 carries ONE 100kg bomb (close to 250lbs). The F4U-1C carries 2000 lbs of ordnance and 4 hvar 5 in rockets.
I agree 100% with Lev's assessment of the CHog vs the La-7.
edit: Puke, that film better not be from last night with me squeaking about getting constantly gang banged! :D
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The La7 does everything better than the f4u1s, that includes high speed turn . The only thing that the f4u1c has over it is armament . As for air to ground capability that's irrelevant as it has never been and I expect never will be a consideration for perking a plane .
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<> -Nifty
LOL. Nawww, it's from a little after you had to leave. I upped a CV in the NW of the map and though I rarely film, I was filming this time and had a 3-kill run...two of which were LA7s. Anyway, the 2nd LA7 comes in on me fast from my 6 and I had this thread in my mind and I thought, 'okay, I'm gonna yank and bank in a scissors and try to get this guy to overshoot and he's going to recapture his E and bite my tail off.' Well, I do it and get him to overshoot after about 3 or 4 flat scissor moves and with my up view see him crossing me from right to my left and he just pulls his nose up and reverses and goes the other way while I'm nursing some slow pig of a 'Hog' which will barely roll or turn or anything. I'm guessing the LA7 didn't want to slow down any more considering the furball nearby and that's what saved me. I ended up hunting him down and killing him too! heh heh. I gotta enjoy this while I can because it's rare I can go 1v1 on an LA7 and come out on top...eventually.
The bad thing is films don't show the blackouts and stall buzzer and you can't feel how heavy the aircraft is or that I want to roll left but the aircraft wallows and yaws right and then rolls right on me. When slow and nose up, I can get that F4U-1 in some really weird positions. I think I got two LA7s and a Spit in the film so it's a keeper for me! Too bad I couldn't get a N1K then I would've had all three of the Three Stooges of the MA. Nyuck nyuck.
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please direct me to the La-7 you fly. The one I select in the hangar is obviously different from the one you fly! :eek:
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F4u is a great plane, my favorite at the moment . Thankfully I rarely meet any competent La7 pilots in it, the ones I've met 1v1 will normally dive and run after I do a couple of very basic acm and get behind and above them . The ones that engage aggressively and stick it out longer than 20 seconds are the ones that send me to davey jones .
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The La7 I've flown can out turn anything it can't out run, perk planes excluded .
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Originally posted by Nifty
The La-7 turns well at NO speed. It turns average at low speeds, not too bad at medium speeds, and doesn't turn well at all at higher speeds. A Mosquito can follow a La-7 through turns, rolls and vertical moves at 350+. It rolls reasonably well at medium speeds, and rolls poorly at higher speeds.
Over 300mph, a CHog will out roll and out turn a La-7. I'd even venture that'd be true down to 250mph. The La-7 has better top speed low alt, and better acceleration low alt. It doesn't turn better at speed, which is what you're basing the La-7's uberness on. Armament? Don't even try to take the La-7 into the CHog's realm there. 2 shvaks (200rpg) or 3 b-20s (150 rpg) does not come close to 4 Hispanos (230 rpg for 2, and 232 rpg for the other 2). The La-7 carries ONE 100kg bomb (close to 250lbs). The F4U-1C carries 2000 lbs of ordnance and 4 hvar 5 in rockets.
I agree 100% with Lev's assessment of the CHog vs the La-7.
edit: Puke, that film better not be from last night with me squeaking about getting constantly gang banged! :D
I think we should understand that high-speed turning is generally a non issue as this is governed by G loading. It does not matter what you fly, at high-speed both will hit the blackout wall in a tight turn, as long as it's not in compression.
Now, if you want a fighter that will give the La-7 all it can stand in terms of speed and climb, try the Yak-9U. Although it is slightly slower on the deck, it climbs as well or better (depending upon altitude). Moreover, above 5k, it is faster too. In terms of maneuverability, the Yak is considerably better at speeds under 250 mph. Acceleration favors the Lavochkin, but only on the deck, and only slightly at that. In my opinion, the Yak is a better balanced design.
I have flown it sporatically until nearing the end of this tour, where I started flying it often. So far, i'm 37/6, with four losses to ack and Flak, one auger and one loss to a snap shot. That's 37/1 air to air. Not bad for a "middle of the pack" pilot. The downside is it's light armament (on par with the Bf-109F) and consequently, its small ammunition load. Despite the lack of punch and ammo, I can still manage 4-5 kills per reload. However, it is not a good weapons platform for snap-shooting. This is illustrated by my 16 assists in the type. Snap-shots are not usually fatal, allowing others to snatch the kill before you can maneuver for another try. Another factor is its limited range, lacking any provision for external fuel (not unlike the La-7 or C.205).
All said, the Yak-9U is a good match for the SpitIX in a turn fight, and a notorious Mustang killer. Likewise, it is an excellent choice for dealing with the La-7 too.
BTW, the Yak eats F4Us like candy, being superior in every category but roll rate. Even there, it is not far behind.
Indeed, the Yak is so good that I feel very confident taking on any fighter with the expectation of winning, or at least, surviving.
If you haven't tried the Yak, I suggest doing so.
My regards,
Widewing
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I'm not discounting that it can't outturn anything it can't outrun. My contention is that the Corsairs (and even more to the point, the Hellcat) have a better instantaneous turn rate than the La-7 at higher speeds, and definitely better roll rate at higher speeds. The Corsairs also dive better than the La-7s, IMO.
also, IMO
Speed - La-7
Accel - La-7
Low speed roll - tie, maybe La-7
med speed roll - Corsair
high speed roll - Corsair by far
sustained turning - maybe La-7, tho drop a notch or two of flap and the Corsair might be able to hang in there.
instantaneous turn 300+ mph - Corsair
guns - Chog hands down, tie between La-7 and the 1 and 1D hog (50 cals have much better ballistics and reach than the shvaks or b-20s)
This is in my experience playing the game. Granted, if all we are talking about is the MA furball, the La-7 is a fine choice of a plane, a better option than the Corsair. If we're talking all around, the Corsair (especially a CHog) is a formidible plane, not all that much worse off than an La-7.
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Widewing, I agree with you on the Yak. They scare me more than just about any other plane in the game. I didn't include the Yak because the point was the La-7 not perked vs the CHog being perked (and we all know the CHog was perked because of it's MA usage).
Anyways, I fly the Spit V mainly (sometimes Spit I when we're not gang banged all to hell and back) because it suits my mindset, skills, and tastes in planes. I fly the La-7 when a base loses fighter hangars and I want to get back in there for defense. I take the La-7 from the nearest base because I know under 10k, nothing short of spending perks will get me there faster. Perk it, and I'll use a La-5. Just gets me there a bit slower. However, I just don't see the need to perk the La-7. It's just FAST. It's not that much better than the rest of the planeset, and not on par with any of the perk planes, except the overused CHog.
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I don't usually like posting on the BBS, but I thought I'd interject here, at the risk of diverting slightly off-topic.
Now, if you want a fighter that will give the La-7 all it can stand in terms of speed and climb, try the Yak-9U. Although it is slightly slower on the deck, it climbs as well or better (depending upon altitude).
This isn't the case until you get to over 10k. Under that, the LA7 greatly outperforms the Yak in both zoom climb and sustained climb. The big difference is that the LA7 has WEP, whereas the Yak does not. The LA7's WEP makes a BIG difference in climb rate.
Moreover, above 5k, it is faster too.
WEP increases the LA7's top speed well above the Yak's at any altitude under 8k, at which point the LA7's WEP turns off. Even then, the Yak doesn't have any significant speed advantage until about 12k.
Both of those facts are quite easy to look up on the aircraft performance charts.
In terms of maneuverability, the Yak is considerably better at speeds under 250 mph.
I agree, though it's hard to get good emperical data to prove it.
Acceleration favors the Lavochkin, but only on the deck, and only slightly at that.
Widewing, did you completely forget that the LA7 has WEP? With it, the LA7 outaccels the Yak up to 8k by a wide margin.
All said, the Yak-9U is a good match for the SpitIX in a turn fight, and a notorious Mustang killer. Likewise, it is an excellent choice for dealing with the La-7 too.
I agree with all of this, except that if you get low and slow a good Spit pilot will eat you alive in a pure turn fight.
BTW, the Yak eats F4Us like candy, being superior in every category but roll rate. Even there, it is not far behind.
Truer words are rarely said.
All in all, the Yak is definitely a great plane, and I love it to death (literally, in the MA). But it's not a kill-all-comers aircraft.
Oh and while I'm here I might as well toss in my $0.02, and say that I don't think that the LA7 needs to be perked any more than the SpitIX and P51D do. Take that as you will.
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The La5 also beats the yak9u to 10k . And all three out climb and out accel the f4u1s by a wide margin .
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Shhhh on the Yaks! I hate those things. Maybe if we pretend they do not exist, no one will fly them. And yes, they certainly do eat Corsairs for lunch.
F4U high speed turning compared to LA7 is and isn't a factor when you hit the wall...because if the F4U hits the wall, he's bleeding his E in great quantity and thereby digging a hole he cannot climb out of when against an LA7 and basically SA is lost. But sometimes there is no choice because the LA7 can catch an F4U and keep up with any lesser turn. I don't find myself able to dive away from LA7s either but that's mostly due to the low altitude they are encountered and LA7s typically keep their speed up too.
F4U-1 is an interesting bird to fly because if you try to stay above tpyical LA7 altitude dominance, you have P51s, G10s, D9s, Typhoons and a few others who will force you down low. Nevertheless, I love flying the F4U-1 or I wouldn't do it.
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It is sort of interesting how different people view the same planes performance. I always thought the LA-7 could easily out-turn an F4U, because I can out turn them in a 109G-10 and the La-7 can out turn me. However, the F4U is often flown by people with very little experience, so it may in fact be able to out turn both the 109G-10 and the LA-7 if both planes are flown 'to the limit'. The F4U has got a nasty stall though, I think most people are afraid to fly the plane as hard as it can be flown because of it.
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The F4u can turn very well at low speeds with two notches of flapage . Was playing around with it in TA testing it out, f4u1d with 25% fuel turned tighter than f6f with 50% fuel. However, f6f with 25% fuel turned tighter than f4u1d with 25% . Naval planes have large fuel tanks.
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Said before, said again, most uber AH plane: Yak9U, then La7, then any with one or more hispanos. Yak9U and La7 due raw performance, any one with hispanos due that fact makes its performance twice as effective as it should be as an unnarmed plane.
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Surely if you believe that you are flying an inferior aircraft to the one you are opposed to in the air, it make sense not to engage that aircraft by choice. SA should save you the majority of time when it comes to getting jumped.
Even in the heat of the furball, local voice comms can save your prettythang and you can direct your aggressor in the area of friendlys so they can latch on his/her 6.
You cant jump into battle thinking that the strengths of your own aircraft are enough on their own to defeat your opponant.
La7, 51, F4u etc. There all the same. Its the pilots choices that decide whether you live or die.
No names, no packdrill. I ran into a 110 pilot last night over a little island where the 2 of us went at it. First I guaged his alt. Then his distance. My approach and the strengths and weaknesses of both aircraft. Then I attacked. I usually eat these things for breakfast.
Imagine my suprise when for the very first time, I suddenly find myself up against a pilot who really knows how to handle the 110 and instead of the relatively easy kill, all preplanned and half way through painting another cross on my tailfin, I find that im locked in a whirling dogfight at close range, fighting for my life.
Entering the battle, I knew this. I had the speed. He had tailguns, weak in nature but guns none the less and a stable platform to shoot from for short periods. I chose to stay in close and not to extend. For a top down fuselage shot or belly shot rather than risk the weak guns at the rear. My decision was a simple one. Face weak rear guns or no guns at all. I went for the later. I also negated one of my primary strengths in doing so. The ability to extend away. I made a concious decision to do so, so that I would not have to attack from any position to the rear of 3 or 9oc as he raced away.
This 110 pilot threw me tho. Instead of running helter skelter and waving his arms like a big girl screaming, he believed in himself and his aircraft and reversed my advantage, doing his damndest to kill me instead. This reversal of fortunes threw me. Particularly since this guys used his E management and Rudder and Flap skills like a pro.
We locked in on each other and exchanged glancing rounds above and below, front and rear and this went on for sometime, with neither of us gaining a distinctive advantage.
During the melee however with desperation beginning to show on both pilots. My conscious decision to remain close in as possible to the 110 proved fatal. We did what all of us hate the most in online Flying besides l33t dweebs and bad lag. We collided.
A horrible end for a glorious encounter fought with both aircraft and skill.
I saluted this skilled pilot whilst I hung in my chute and watched his unfurl and float down some distance from me.
I got a thankyou from him and then a slap in the face with the allegation of deliberate ramming. Unfortunately, I was unable to make him see why it occurred. No point in arguing in there, so I didnt. He went his way and I went mine.
The point im trying to make is. I will fight in my La7 my way. Not yours. The decisions I make with it and made so that I control the fight. Not you. Be you 110 or TBM. I would rather meet a pilot like the one above and be bested in that manner and accept it than a pilot who simply thinks I won or lost because of my aircraft.
His 110 showed its not the plane.. Its the pilot.
Had we continued without collision, he may well have won and I would have learnt a valuable lesson the hard way.
That he was a better pilot...Even if he was a little ungracious about it LOL.
Dont whine in there about La7's. Salute and fly on.
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Originally posted by scspook
Imagine my suprise when for the very first time, I suddenly find myself up against a pilot who really knows how to handle the 110 and instead of the relatively easy kill, all preplanned and half way through painting another cross on my tailfin, I find that im locked in a whirling dogfight at close range, fighting for my life.
Ever see what a well flown IL-2 can do in a furball? I have. At least five air to air kills in one sortie. Two Spits, 109, P-51 and a Hellcat. It was a shocker for the victims and the observers as well. I certainly got a kick out of it.
Never taking anyone or any aircraft lightly is a good motto to live by.
My regards,
Widewing