Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Tac on December 18, 2001, 11:06:00 AM
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How about:
Get rid of the "kill planes to get perk points" system.
Instead, give each person 500 perk points each tour. At end of tour, any unused perks dissapear. So its use them or lose them.
Instead of using the already in place ENY/OBJ system to calculate perkies, put the points gathered by the eny/obj system into:
RANK POINTS.
This rank system could be called "Career System" instead of perk system.
10 perks: 1st rank (cadet?)
20 perks: 2nd rank (Pilot Officer?)
40 perks: 3rd rank (Colonel?)
50 perks: 4th rank (Capt?)
60 perks: 5th rank (General?)
80+ perks: 6th rank (Air Marshall?)
Rank points RESET when you die or are captured. What is the use of getting rank points? at rank 1 you get a small discount on the perk rides (and subsequent upping in rank gets further discount), at rank 2 you get free use of C-Hog, at rank 3 you get free use of ta152 and arado, rank 4 get f4u4 and tempest, rank 5 reduces perk cost of jets at half , at rank 6 you get free use of all perk planes. EDITED: However, the "FREE" perk planes will only be avaliable to those flying CAREER sorties, otherwise a person could reach a certain rank and not fly career sorties & fly perk planes the whole time without risk of losing his priviledge. (thnx nifty for pointing it out).
Since if you die or are captured you lose your rank and start from 0, it will limit the amount of people flying free perk rides. If you cant get the rank, you still have 500 perk points to get the perk rides, EACH month.
The cost of some perk planes would have to be altered to make this work im sure. Maybe make the lowest perk ride cost 20 perks (chog), 152, tempest and f4u4 cost 40 perks, arado cost 50, and 262 cost 150 perks.
That would allow for..
25 chogs OR
12 152/temp/f4u4 OR
4 arados OR
3 262's
a month for each player.
Not to mention that as you up in rank, you get discount on the perk rides.. so at rank 1 a Tempest wouldnt cost 40 perks, but 35. Rank2 would cost 30, rank 3 would cost 25.
However, it would be unfair to make a person have to fly "Career" all the time, so instead of that, REPLACE the "Attack" and "Fighter" options with a box asking you if you want to fly that sortie for CAREER points.. a simple "Yes" or "No" option will do. So if you die in a non-career sortie, your rank will not be reset.
What ye think?
[ 12-20-2001: Message edited by: Tac ]
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Combat Theater.
Sounds "not fun", so sounds like it'd fit in the Combat Theater.
-SW
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Actually, this is pretty equitable. Sure, the first of the month may be terrible for some, but by the end of the first week things will settle in. You will see perk planes used more, but excessive and frivolous usage will eliminate them from the arena. You are rewarded for staying alive by keeping your ride, and newbies entering the game have just as much a chance of getting the perk rides as anyone else.
I like it.
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"dozens of chogs"
Answered your own question. :)
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Adjust the point level, then. Give 200 perks, reduce the cost of max perk ride to 50, and let people go.
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added what was here to 1st post.
[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Tac ]
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TAC,
I like it. It means that even the low time pilots (game play) wil have a chance at erk rides. It also allows new pilots to experiance them as well and doesn't soley reward those pilots who really don't NEED perk planes to be "successful" in this game.
(http://www.13thtas.com/mav13sig.jpg)
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Edited first post to contain modifications.
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welfare perks again :rolleyes:
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thats 25 chogs x 75 folks that will fly it almost exclusively out 350 or so average in the main at peak times.
plus all the other perk rides.
I dont know why it is folks think that not being able to fly a perk ride is problem.
And if your gonna give a perk points away just give each perk ride its own free day that would be better the 2 weeks of perk mania at the start of evey tour.
Perk system is about right if you really wanna fly one get in a plane with a hi eny value and kill planes with a lo eny.
It don't get any simplier then that.
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Originally posted by Wotan:
welfare perks again :rolleyes:
LOL! :) Indeed it is.. of sort.
[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Tac ]
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Rank points RESET when you die or are captured. What is the use of getting rank points? at rank 1 you get a small discount on the perk rides (and subsequent upping in rank gets further discount), at rank 2 you get free use of C-Hog, at rank 3 you get free use of ta152 and arado, rank 4 get f4u4 and tempest, rank 5 reduces perk cost of jets at half , at rank 6 you get free use of all perk planes.
Questions:[list=1]- How would this make the MA a better place?
- What type of flying would this promote?
- What type of plane usage would this promote?
- What type of community interaction would this promote (think about people's reactions to being shot down right now when things such as rank are not in place)[/list=a]
The whole idea of establishing a "rank" system in the MA promotes elitism. This isn't something that anyone can attain... it takes a certain level of patience and skill. No need to reward that with free perk planes... or else lazs "only the best pilots will be flying the best planes" anti-perk whine completely valid.
It smacks of something that someone who is pretty good in the arena would come up with while completely thumbing their nose at everyone else.
AKDejaVu
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"The whole idea of establishing a "rank" system in the MA promotes elitism. This isn't something that anyone can attain... it takes a certain level of patience and skill. No need to reward that with free perk planes... or else lazs "only the best pilots will be flying the best planes" anti-perk whine completely valid."
Eh? Those who want the rank will have to stay alive in their "Career" sorties, as I said above, its selectable.
How is this elitism? Mr. Rank 4 can get HO'd or shot down by Mr. Rank0 flying the SAME plane (perk on non-perked).
How would this make the MA a better place?
All have access to perk planes on equal basis at the start of each month.
What type of flying would this promote?
Would be the same flying for those not flying a career sortie, those flying a career sortie would have to fly and survive. Something that will be quite hard on an arena where everyone has access to the same planes he has. Thus, the reward for someone with rank is either reduced cost of perk rides or free use of it. Now, remember, the ENY/OBJ values are what determines the rank points, so using a perk plane to rack up points for the career will be QUITE slow.
What type of plane usage would this promote?
Those with rank would use the perk rides more often, specially when they become free for them. Yet again, a rank0 flying the same OR a better perk plane could swat him outta the sky. Also, its not until rank 4 that you get perk planes for free that can actually fight below 25k (chog notwithstanding.. but go and get perk points in THAT!)
What type of community interaction would this promote (think about people's reactions to being shot down right now when things such as rank are not in place)
You think it will be any different?
"It smacks of something that someone who is pretty good in the arena would come up with while completely thumbing their nose at everyone else."
How can that be when everyone has access to the same planes at the same rate unless they manage to stay alive in their career missions? The horror of it, we who are "pretty good in the arena" will have to face those "not pretty good in the arena" in the same planes AND fight to live in them when flying a career sortie or we lose what we've gained. If someone ever reaches rank 6 he will get Ho'd by someone flying another 262 eventually.. remember, those not flying for career dont give a damn about losing rank and would just be losing their 200 perks. And then again, this non-rank flyer will not know that the other 262 he's facing is a player on a career sortie.
Any more Q's?
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Here's what this system seems like to me: A way to get more perk planes in the arena.
Why in the hell do you all want MORE of those damn things when you all cry about La7s, N1K2s(pre-fix), SpitIXs, SpitVs, whatever else that is a none perked plane.
Hell you all cried half way around the world about the Chog before it was perked, no you propose something to give everyone atleast a guaranteed 75 flights in one EACH month?
You cried the Chog into perkdom, you pissed 'n moaned about N1K2s, Spits or whatever the hot ride of the week was and now, you want to go back on all of that and just make it essentially 2 weeks full of Chogs or whatever other perk planes everyone wants to fly?
No way, that's just retarded!
Here's a better system: Each new account gets 200 perk points, just enough for 1 Me262, enough for a couple of other lower costing perk planes. You blow it right off the gun, tough. If you can't keep 'em, you don't deserve to keep getting 'em for no reason what-so-ever.
I could of very well blown all of my perk points I spent months building up, but I only wasted 600 and built back up 400 of those in a few months.
What incentive is there to keep your perk planes in tact each month if you KNOW you will be getting more next month for doing not a damn thing?
There is no incentive to do anything with this system!
-SW
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"Here's what this system seems like to me: A way to get more perk planes in the arena."
you will see them more often, yes. Then again, any perk ride 'xcept the 262 has a good chance of falling to the late war rides, particularly when there's a LOT of them around (sound like the MA to you?)
"Why in the hell do you all want MORE of those damn things when you all cry about La7s, N1K2s(pre-fix), SpitIXs, SpitVs, whatever else that is a none perked plane."
"Hell you all cried half way around the world about the Chog before it was perked, no you propose something to give everyone atleast a guaranteed 75 flights in one EACH month?"
Read again, carefully this time. You'd only have enuf for barely 1 perk plane A DAY with this system.
"You cried the Chog into perkdom, you pissed 'n moaned about N1K2s, Spits or whatever the hot ride of the week was and now, you want to go back on all of that and just make it essentially 2 weeks full of Chogs or whatever other perk planes everyone wants to fly?"
And whats the difference with having the full month of seeing said n1ks, spits, la7's in the MA right now when compared to this? This way the perk rides would endanger the almightyness of the late war rides.. AND they'd be in limited amount to EVERYONE.
"No way, that's just retarded!"
Dont worry, I still love you. :rolleyes:
"Here's a better system: Each new account gets 200 perk points, just enough for 1 Me262, enough for a couple of other lower costing perk planes. You blow it right off the gun, tough. If you can't keep 'em, you don't deserve to keep getting 'em for no reason what-so-ever."
Thats basically my system. You really think you will be able to keep a rank for long in the MA when everyone has access to the same planes you have?
"I could of very well blown all of my perk points I spent months building up, but I only wasted 600 and built back up 400 of those in a few months.
What incentive is there to keep your perk planes intact each month if you KNOW you will be getting more next month for doing not a damn thing?
There is no incentive to do anything with this system!"
Really? If you didnt read the first post, let me tell you again: to get rank so that you can get more perk rides a month than others can. If you die in a career sortie, you're back to square 1. The incentive? What is the incentive in the CURRENT perk system? To fly perk planes. What is the incentive on this system? to Fly perk planes. To have easier or free access to them to be more precise.
As stated in 1st post, the numbers would need tweaking, perhaps instead of 500 perks, having 400 perks. The idea is to give EVERYONE a perk ride at least every 2nd day. I said 500 'cause it gives access to either 25 chogs a month OR 3 me262's a month. Thats it. If you want to have more than 3 262's you'd better up in rank, by rank 2 you may squeeze and extra 262 because of the cost reduction. But that 262 will last you only as long as you survive on a career flight. If you want to blast your perks in non-career flights, you can do it, but only career flights get you rank perks.
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Interesting proposition. In general, I support a way to give new and low-time players access to perks on a fairly regular basis. I think I'd rather see, however, a smaller number available. Maybe 100 or so on a monthly basis that goes away at the end of the month, but keep the perks you earn. This would keep the number of "excess" perks fairly low, but would still allow all to have a bit of fun with the "hot" rides. Of course, I don't mind the rolling planeset idea, either.
Bottom line for me is I could support this, but I think the number of free perks is excessive.
HaMmeR
www.netAces.org (http://www.netaces.org)
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I'd rather donate my perks to the needy. ;)
Hey, HTC, can we set up a "gift" system to maybe reward a guy who clears your six? Or maybe a guy that shoots down a perpetual whiner or something?
You know, like throwing roses to the bullfighter type of deal.
:D
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So.. you either use your perk points or constantly face uber planes in inferior ones??
no thanks.. keep the stigma that is 'perk jerk'.
lazs
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I'd rather see the whole idea go out the window.
The entire perk system causes prejudice flying in some and prevents the newbie dweebs from learning the value of the better planes.
BTW, the massive differences in oppinion that are always voiced on this subject should be a good indicator that something is wrong. This is one VERY squeaky wheel.
Viper
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sounds very interesting TAC ... may be it could work in CT
MA is worst and worst day by day
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I dont get it how its going to be worse than what we have now. Its 3 me262's a month only. If they blow it all on CHOGS (easy kills with the hordes of la7's and n1ks and spits out there..plus chog is now at its correct weight), then that's their prerogative, their choice. Most likely, people will fly the rank4 planes and the jets as they burn their given monthly perk points. Those who want to be able to fly more perk planes will have to work towards career points.. and if they use perk planes to get career points, they wont get many 'cause perk rides give very little point due to ENY/OBJ values.
"The entire perk system causes prejudice flying in some and prevents the newbie dweebs from learning the value of the better planes"
Yes, that's how it is now. With the Career system takes away the prejudice part AND allows them newbloods to learn the value of the perk planes by flying them. It does no good to a new guy to see perk planes in the sky and only be able to fly them in TA, DA or HtH arenas where the fighting is mighty different.
"So.. you either use your perk points or constantly face uber planes in inferior ones"
So.. you either fly your unperked late war planes or constantly face them in inferior non-perked non-late war planes. Hey, thats the MA now. How horrible isnt it? I guess it doesnt apply when its your rides eh? What you want as an alternative? Perk the uber la7, uber 51D, etc? Im all for it you know.
At least with this system EVERYONE has access to the perk planes. And you have a damn good chance of killing a 152,tempest and f4u4 with your La7 or P51D as well.
Toad: :) :) :D
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I hate any kind of perk system but...
If we have to have one then let's stigmatize it as much as possible.. Make the wussy, loser of a perk jerk as obvious as possible.
lazs
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"I hate any kind of perk system but..."
This is NOT a perk system. You, me , mr newbie all get access to perk rides. The only difference will be that if I want to fly a bit MORE perk rides than you can each month, i'll work towards upping my rank. By the end of a month I may have gotten up to rank 3.. got killed,..got to rank 2, got shot down again, etc. I only get discount of free use of a certain perk plane as long as I stay alive. And that is the hard part since you or mrnewbie can easily fly the same perk ride without any care in the world if you die in it or not.
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
The whole idea of establishing a "rank" system in the MA promotes elitism. This isn't something that anyone can attain... it takes a certain level of patience and skill.
AKDejaVu
I flew in FA2 for a few months 2 years ago, the ranking system there really made the arenas an unenjoyable experience because of the eliteisim BS. Having your Handle and "Stars" show to the opposition inflight WAS kind of interesting and made for a lot of crying when a "General" <g> would get gangbanged..."You're just going after my stars"...lol, that's right, I am!
I think the system AH has now is good, not perfict but very good indeed...but then, I think I've only spent like 8 perks since it was put in place. The perked planes just don't interest me unless they are in my gunsight ;)
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It don't seem broke now. Why fix it?
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Its not broke, its cracked
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tac... I don't care how "hard you work" to get an uber plane to fly against lesser planes... you flat out don't deserve it in a game that runs 24/7 with no set start and stop times and a variety of interests and skill sets being catered to.
The fewer perk planes in the arena the more it is basicaly fair. I won't fly perk planes probly ever.... I don't enjoy em.. I would rather see early war planes. All your system would do is create more of a lopsided and difficult arena for me while ensuring that early war planes cannot be succesfully introduced. I think anyone (99%)who flys a perk plane is a sissy jerk. They need to be pointed at and laughed at not hidden and given some lameo legitimacy.
lazs
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I like the gift system. I have no desire to fly ANY perk plane we have right now. I'd gladly give away my low amount of perks to someone that wanted them.
As for the system proposed... Do you gain perks at all, or is the set amount all you get the entire month? so if someone runs out of perk points, the only way they can fly a perk ride is to get rank high enough to fly perk rides for free?
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“.givefperks XXX flyerA”
“.givebperks XXX flyerB”
“.givevperks XXX flyerC”
After all the discussions I don’t see how the above can hurt anyone. Can we at least get the option to give them away?
Zippatuh
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"I think anyone (99%)who flys a perk plane is a sissy jerk"
I think the same of those that fly only the non-perked uber war planes, but that's my opinion.
Now, with this system, imagine if the P-40 or early war planes are introduced. You would then most likely have the late war planes become part of the perked planeset. And with everyone having the same amount of perks at the start, you get an equitable chance at flying any plane you want, when you want. Until you run out of perks that is :) .
"Do you gain perks at all, or is the set amount all you get the entire month? so if someone runs out of perk points, the only way they can fly a perk ride is to get rank high enough to fly perk rides for free?"
Correct. You only get a set amount of perk points to fly perk planes each month. If you run out of them, you can still work towards your rank points to get some perk rides for free. Yet, you must remember that you will ONLY have access to free perk rides as long as you dont get captured or killed while flying career sorties. Free perk rides would only be avaliable FOR career sorties (ye found a loophole there, thanks. Would be bad if somoeone reached rank 6 and not fly career sorties with 262's all the time, without the chance of losing his rank. loophole PLUGGED. Edited first post). If you do, you'll be back to rank 0.
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Sure does seem to be a lot of creative ideas out there.
I am:
1)Relatively new person to AH (3 months)
2)Not particularly skilled (less than 1 kill per sortie).
3)An occasional flyer (50-100 sorties a month).
Despite the above, I have managed to accumulate well over 600 fighter perks points. I've taken out the TA152 and the 262 out for a few rides and it was pretty easy to bring them back home in one piece. I fit the profile TAC seems to be describing and yet I have the ability to fly and die 3 times in 262s right now if I wanted too (or 75 Chogs). I just don't see any need for "welfare" perks.
I think that adding a significant number of perk sorties would ruin some of the game's "flavor" for me. 262s, TA152s and the rest were extremely rare aircraft even in 1945. I'd prefer not to be seeing multiple 262s on every sortie I fly.
In summary, if a dweeb like me can earn perks so easily why would we need "free" perks?
Salute all,
Vorc
JG52
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Originally posted by lazs1:
I think anyone (99%)who flys a perk plane is a sissy jerk.
Tour 23: lazs has 3 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1C
Tour 22: lazs has 2 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1C
Tour 21: lazs has 9 kills and has been killed 2 times in the F4U-4
Tour 20: lazs has 26 kills and has been killed 9 times in the F4U-1C
Tour 19: lazs has 68 kills and has been killed 17 times in the F4U-1C
Lazs, YOU are a perk flying sissy jerk.
Get off your high horse. Labelling people who don't fly the way you want them to as sissies and wusses is getting really old. Now you come into this thread spouting hypocritical, insulting rubbish. Try adding to the conversation, not just hurling insults. Time to lay off the caffeine Lazs, it isn't doing you any good...
P.S. I think Tac's idea has some merit. A "welfare system" for perks is a reasonable idea IMO. Maybe credit them on a weekly basis and have them valid for one month, that way you wouldn't have a flood of perk planes in the first few days of a tour...
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Hmm.. well the -4 was not perked when I flew it.. nothing was it was free. the C hog is nothing but a cannon -1 that is very cheap... almost a non perk..and I have allready said numerous times that I use it only when I get frustrated at GV's. I have probly 3000 perk points.. I think that would qualify me for 1% status eh?
Welfare? LOL friggin socialists.. Any system that assures that a P40 or Spit one ends up fighting -4 corsairs and tempests and even late war planes...sucks. A group of people will allways be flying em all tour long.... even more than we have now.
The only good thing about the perk system is that it stigmatizes erk plane use and they are expensive... You son't see many of em.. The more of em u see the worse it is for the arena and for early war planes.... tac's system adds more perk planes to the arena and takes away the shame of flying em.. Both bad things.
bottom line...anything that adds to the number or frequency of perk planes in the arena is a bad idea. Anything that lessens the frequency or seperates them is a good idea.
lazs
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I think Lazs is referring to the late war birds that are basically untouchable if flown properly that are perked. He's referring to planes that were introduced as perks.
The F4U-1C is actually slower (isn't Lazs?) than the -1D, and on top of that it started out as a non-perk. Unfortunately though, more than half the arena was a BFG monger and flew that plane until enough people complained about it that it got perked.
-SW
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"Welfare? LOL friggin socialists.. Any system that assures that a P40 or Spit one ends up fighting -4 corsairs and tempests and even late war planes...sucks. A group of people will allways be flying em all tour long.... even more than we have now."
Just like the la7 and its ilk? Again I ask, whats the difference with what we have NOW? If you think they will add a P-40 or a spit 1 without perking or dealing with the unperked late war planes, you're sadly mistaken.In fact, I believe they havent added them because they dont want to deal with that issue YET.
"Maybe credit them on a weekly basis and have them valid for one month, that way you wouldn't have a flood of perk planes in the first few days of a tour... "
The number of perks per month and price of perk planes must be changed yes, my numbers were from what I think would be fair. HTC in their infinite wisdom (read:inebriation ;) ) will make it fair for all.
"bottom line...anything that adds to the number or frequency of perk planes in the arena is a bad idea. Anything that lessens the frequency or seperates them is a good idea"
*opens "LazSpeak for Dummies"*
bottom line... anything that gives all players an equal chance at flying uberplanes, albeit at set&fixed limited amounts per person each month is a bad idea. Anything that keeps the uber planes in the hands of a few players and thus keeps them away from my furballing is a good idea.
*closes book*
Right? :rolleyes:
Correct swulfe. Because it was avaliable in unlimited numbers with no con to losing one. This way however, you can either fly 25 chogs a month (barely 1 a day) or not and use those perks for something else.
Think on it this way, those 500 perks would allow each player to fly something like,4X Chogs (each chog costing 20 perks), 3X temps(or)f4u4(or)ta152 (each costing 40 perks) and 2X 262 (each costing 150 perks) every month.
2 hogs=1 152/f4u4/tempest
3.75 152's/f4u4's/tempest's=1 me262
Now, how is this worse than having high skill/high flying time players be able to fly much more perk rides a month than those with low skill/low flying time? Each player has his FIXED set of perks to use, how he burns them is his problem. Those getting rank will ONLY get to fly their free perk planes as long as they fly in CAREER sortie AND as long as they dont die/get captured in them.
So even Laz, who doesnt give a damn about rank can still HO and take away the ability of mr. rank 2 to fly his free chog and smack him down to rank0 again. And since there is NO indication in the icon of rank, he wont know who's who.
It would be nice to show rank on the roster only, but that can also be debatable.
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Tac, what type of flying do you think your system would promote?
How would it changes the day to day dynamics of the arena?
Would the thrill of flying the 262 be increased or decreased?
HiTech
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ok tac... let me put it even more simply.. if we see less or the same amount of perk planes per tour then it is a good idea. If we see more then it is a bad idea.
I certainly would not be adverse to being able to give my perk points to another player or.... use my perk points to cancel a like amount of another players perks. For instance... "lazs gives 300 perk points to tac" or...lazs uses 300 perk points to remove 300 perk points from tac"
since I do not use them myself they would then be "useful" to me. As it is they are useless to me but they can harm my enjoyment of the game.
lazs
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"Tac, what type of flying do you think your system would promote?"
Not much different than it is now. With the exception of those few flying their career sorties doing their best to not get shot down. In fact, we may even see organized flights of career pilots winging together vs. other career flights.
"How would it changes the day to day dynamics of the arena?"
Furballs will still be there. Strat will still be there. Only difference would be that you may see perk rides more often.
"Would the thrill of flying the 262 be increased or decreased"
I'd say increased. You'd have other 262's to smack down (and to smack you down when in career sorties..eep!), as well as the usual, slower targets.
Losing a 262 as it is now hurts. As it should. But the rate at which vet pilots or those with high flying times recover them seems a bit unfair to me. But, if everyone would has the same perk points a month, and the choice of how to burn them, it will make flying the good ol' jet much more interesting. Losing it will mean losing it until the end of the month.
Thats what I think it would be like. I'd love to hear your opinion too. :)
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Greetings all,
After more thought on the subject, it occurs to me we are looking at the wrong thing. We are discussing at great length whether or not it would be fair to give perk points to people who have not "earned" them. I think what we really should be discussing is a way to allow people who haven't yet "earned" their points to still fly a perk-plane every once in a while.
Why not let everybody fly whatever they want a couple of sorties per month. That's not overly significant. It would allow new and low-time players the ability to fly some of those "exciting" perks. This would help hold the interest of some I suspect. While there is no way it would not result in an increase of perks flying around, it would not necessarily be a bad thing... you get more perkies for killin perkies in non-perkies! I would, thouhgh, require tracking free sorties used and this would be a coding issue.
That's about as far as my thoughts go on that one!
HaMmeR
www.netAces.org (http://www.netaces.org)
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hammer... I would much rather have a "free" day or two every tour where all planes were free. Everyone could fly em till their butt went numb.
lazs