Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Reschke on May 29, 2002, 12:48:38 PM
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I read something a few days ago about this. Was it just speculation or rumor? In any case it could only help the numbers that we see in the arena.
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It was a request by several players to bring more players into the CT and by changing name, giving them a better idea what it's all about. Hope we can get it.
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"Combat Theater" sounds like a furball arena to me. Not a very good description. I agree, a change is needed.
eskimo
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How about sehob's Playhouse?
eskimo
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Originally posted by eskimo2
How about sehob's Playhouse?
eskimo
You mean "Sehobs Slaughter House" don't ya Eskimo?:D
That guy kills me every time I'm on the opposite side from him.
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Originally posted by Löwe
You mean "Sehobs Slaughter House" don't ya Eskimo?:D
That guy kills me every time I'm on the opposite side from him.
Hehe,
actually I ment that he's logged on everytime I am, and I play WAY too much!
eskimo
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I think a name change to boost attendance in the CT is worth trying.
I wondering if it should be called an "Arena" just like the others, rather than a "Theater". The "Theater" part seems to have mislead a few people. Also, I think the most important characteristic that sets it apart from the main is that its a two-sided, Axis v Allies setup.
So, Axis vs Allies Arena? Worth a try?
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Originally posted by oboe
I think a name change to boost attendance in the CT is worth trying.
I wondering if it should be called an "Arena" just like the others, rather than a "Theater". The "Theater" part seems to have mislead a few people. Also, I think the most important characteristic that sets it apart from the main is that its a two-sided, Axis v Allies setup.
So, Axis vs Allies Arena? Worth a try?
Tripple A?
eskimo
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Looking into it, guys. I'll let you know what Pyro says.
Sabre
CT Staff
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Thanks Sabre. I am sure that most of us here who like the CT and would like to see more people in it. Think that Axis vs. Allies (or something to that effect) would be a great name for all the great setups you guys give us.
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I don't think it should always be Axis vs. Allies but themed plane sets available to all sides sometimes.
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How about Historical Arena? :)
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L'Arène Vide?
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The CT might be named improper, but it’s the draw of the MA that kills it from the onset.
Introduce new release planes there for X amount of days prior to the actual full feature updates; they will come.
‘They’ may even like it, (why wouldn't they ask yourself?) filling it up regular.
HTC achieves free Beta testing, (BF110? Guns to name one) and free no hassle marketing incentive no hoopty animated Scenario .gif could ever hope to accomplish.
You heard it here first.
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Originally posted by Pei
How about Historical Arena? :)
Sounds good
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Hmm, ok, just change the name.
Nothing too clever though, the ping times will go to hell all at once.
Let us know what Pyro says Sabre.
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How about;
"Free Beer and Easy Women Arena!"
eskimo
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Originally posted by eskimo2
How about;
"Free Beer and Easy Women Arena!"
eskimo
hehe
Thinkin the same thing
More like "XXX photos here"
should be able to shoot them down 2 to 3 times before they figure out the ploy & leave :)
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Just call it the 'World War II Arena'.
It's not as if WarBirds has a lock on that name and it certainly would tell people that it's a:
1) Normal arena
with a
2) World War II vibe to it.
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I think everyone agrees that it should be changed but it may not be that easy for HTC code wise. I'd just like to see a 'yea/nea' and from Pyro and the crew if it's going to happen or not. It's really up to them.....
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What would be ideal would be if the CMs had permission to change the name themselves. This way the name would change every week and would be descripive of the current set-up.
I.E. :
Battle of Britain
or
Phillipines
or
Stalingrad
etc.
eskimo
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Originally posted by zarkov
Just call it the 'World War II Arena'.
It's not as if WarBirds has a lock on that name and it certainly would tell people that it's a:
1) Normal arena
with a
2) World War II vibe to it.
Calling one arena "World War II Arena" implies to me that there are or will be other arenas for different time periods - i.e. World War I arena, Korean War Arena, etc.
I mean, I consider the MA a World War II arena.
So thats what WarBirds calls their Axis v Allies arena?
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I agree with what eskimo wrote below. The optimal solution would be to have the name change when the setup changed. That way people can look at the setup name and already form an idea on their own without having to go into the arena to see what is there.
Originally posted by eskimo2
What would be ideal would be if the CMs had permission to change the name themselves. This way the name would change every week and would be descripive of the current set-up.
I.E. :
Battle of Britain
or
Phillipines
or
Stalingrad
etc.
eskimo
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I also agree with Eskimo...
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Okay...then just call it:
The Allies vs. Axis Arena.
That pretty much succinctly says what Combat Theater is about.
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Anything further been mentioned about this? I hope so because it needs something to "help" it.
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Haven't heard back from Pyro on this...they must be pretty busy. I'll ping him again and see if I can get a reading.
Sabre
CT Staff
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Maybe "Historical Theater" is more fitting???
Regards
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Well I like "Axis vs Allies Arena" as is most accurately reflects the setups. Some setups may not be always historical, but everyone i can think of is axis vs allies.
Jarbo
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How about we call it the mission theater.
Then change the game play to be mission based only, automaticly run on every hour, with missions for both offense and deffense.
Then change the scorring to be scored on mission accomplishements and not personal achevments?
Then have the CM's create the set off missions for automation?
HiTech
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Not a bad concept there HT. Maybe mission based scoring could be implemented in some fashion to help draw people in the room to play. Although do we have to keep the "theater" moniker for it? I think that is one thing that keeps some people from going to it.
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I'd love to work with ya on that, HiTech. Lot of work for the CM's (possibly), but I wouldn't mind giving it a try. I can see a lot of questions that would have to be addressed. The top-most one that comes to mind is, how would you keep the arena play dynamic? Would the CM's also "program" the strategic objectives for both sides, such that the server would know to "Take base A13, then A14..." and so on? Would it be possible to program more strategic objectives, such as "destroy refinery?" Would people be able to launch solo, or only as part of a mission? What happens if you enter the arena on the half-hour? Do you have to wait 30 minutes for the next mission?
Sabre
P.S. Wasn't this the idea "Screaming Demons Over Europe" was supposed to try?
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I really doubt the name is why the CT has less people than the MA. I think more people like the style of fighting that goes on in MA, and thats why they fly there. You can call a brick a boulder, but it's still a brick.
If CT goes to mission only flying, whats gonna happen to people that want a place to fly historical matchups, but don't want the strictness of mission parameters? I mean now if you want to fly a mission all you have to do is build one. If forced to fly missions it may loose the appeal it has now even more. I mean I like a lot of things, but I don't want anything I like forced on me.
Just my two cents.
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Originally posted by Löwe
I really doubt the name is why the CT has less people than the MA. I think more people like the style of fighting that goes on in MA, and thats why they fly there. You can call a brick a boulder, but it's still a brick.
If CT goes to mission only flying, whats gonna happen to people that want a place to fly historical matchups, but don't want the strictness of mission parameters? I mean now if you want to fly a mission all you have to do is build one. If forced to fly missions it may loose the appeal it has now even more. I mean I like a lot of things, but I don't want anything I like forced on me.
Just my two cents.
For the first month or so that the CT was around, I never logged in. Based on the name, I thought it was just a little furball arena or something. It wasn't until I was forced in there on a squad night that I realized what was going on. So basically I disagree with your statement. Whatever you call it, the CT will always have lesser numbers than the main. But, I am certain that the name contributes to the smaller numbers in the CT. Perhaps a proper name change will only help by 5%, or maybe it will boost attendance by 50%. Either way, I think its worth doing and will help.
I bet that it's not very simple to change the name of the CT every week. If we are only allowed a permanent name, then I think that "Axis Vs. Allies" would be appropriate and help "sell" the arena.
eskimo
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Let me clarify something in my last post.
I don't think that just going to a mission based system for scoring in this arena will entice huge numbers. I think it might bring in some but if it that was the only way to fly in the arena then it most likely would wither and die on the vine. You would need to have mission points spread across the group of pilots that successfully complete a mission to have any real impact on the numbers who will take missions. I fly TOD's when I can because it has a level that I just can not find anywhere else. I don't think I would fly hourly TOD's just because they are there.
For the name change I think Axis vs. Allies would fit or maybe Historical Matchups as the arena name would fit better.
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Originally posted by Löwe
If CT goes to mission only flying, whats gonna happen to people that want a place to fly historical matchups, but don't want the strictness of mission parameters?
You mean, people like me? We will not be happy.
- oldman
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although, with substitutions and all, "axis vs allied" would not be strictly correct.... It would describe the main theme of the arena far better than (cough) "combat arena".
lazs
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Hitech,
I've thought about the idea of "auto-executing-missions" and I like it. Is your idea that only 1 mission runs at a time, or potentially more than one? Would this new arena prevent the free form mission/fights that occur in the CT now? Would the arena have the ability to switch terrains on its own (i.e. one european mission followed by a terrain change to a pacific mission 5-10 minutes before mission start)? Would you consider incorporating the ability of the standard player to submit missions for arena, if they have something special in mind? Maybe for a player would submit mission to a voting stack. If a certain % of yes votes and doesn't get too many no votes, the mission would then be submitted to the arena itself. This would allow a squad to come in an post a specific re-enactment for their squad nite.
Trying to get a better understanding of your thoughts,
Jarbo
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IMO a very sound concept HiTech. Jonathan "BB" Baron tried that "elsewhere" and indeed it was a nice working feature - albeit with some loop holes and bugs that a small group of "griefing/gamer" type player took advantage of. They never got around to fixing those bugs and gameplay issues and as a result the setup faded away due to lack of interest.
As for the name change to reflect more colorfully what is running in the CT? Heh :) I recommended that many moons ago in this forum. I never heard a word back on it. Sounds like HTC has a plan though ;)
In any event, IMO the "billboard" SHOULD reflect what is running inside just like a marquee for a cinema does. If people who drove by or glanced at it constantly saw only "Movie Theatre" on the front that alone would not spark much curiosity nor would it give any indication of the frequent changes in the offering that occur there.
Westy
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How about, "Respected Pilots Arena" or "Non-Dweeb, non-Flame-You-On-The-Text-buffer-Arena?"
Or maybe even, "Fair-Play-Arena"
:)
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S!
This is something which I brought up a while back.
I posted a query on this board asking people what they would think of the idea of people only being able to fly in a mission in the CT.
Personally I think it is an idea worth trying. It would solve some of the problems with low density, and it would give the CT a whole different feel.
However, I think people would need some kind of automated system to inform them as to mission start time etc.
I also think basic missions, as in 'Fighter Sweeps' etc. would be a nessesity. Make a 2 aircraft Fighter Sweep be available as a mission almost anytime. It would still have a different feel, in that players would not be flying solo, but as part of a team.
And those guys who want to get into a fight fast would not nessesarily have to wait too long to fly.
Perhaps a program could be created which would automatically generate missions.
The CT Staff could set the parameters of the program ie, what the objectives and targets are, what general types of missions, etc, then the program would generate missions.
To make a mission based CT work, I also think we would need smaller maps. We don't want the two sides running missions which don't intersect. Combat between the sides has to be the end aim.
Cheers Buzzbait
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S!
By the way, I think the Arena should be called:
"World War II Combat Theater"
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I think that making it a mission based arena is admiting that multiple arenas don't work. That is not a bad thing tho...
right now, a lot of guys look at the CT (or any other setup) as just a less populated MA with more restrictions. It is hard to find enough guys who like the same "restrictions"... When you get them together, they have a good time but.. The arena fades away or, becomes less of the "community" eventually or, it takes over the existing arena and the existing arena fades away... To say that the players in a small arena are "most respected" is the root of the problem.. They are not at all respected nor, indeed, even known except by a very small group. They "fade from the community. If they don't show up in the main arena on occassion, everyone forgets they exist.
While I personally would hate a mission based arena.. Many would not. that is, they would not hate it occasionaly.. It could become a change of pace arena that a lot of people would try on occassion while still mostly flying the MA. It would become a viable alternative possibly.
lazs
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I've seen Theme used several times to describe what the arena does so why not use it
I don't think it should always be Axis vs. Allies but themed plane sets available to all sides sometimes
-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels
ps lazs
what is your idea for an arena?
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I've seen Theme used several times to describe what the arena does so why not use it
I don't think it should always be Axis vs. Allies but themed plane sets available to all sides sometimes
-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels
ps lazs
what is your idea for an arena?
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How about "BT" for Better Theater? :)
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blindman... my idea for an arena has nothing to do with allied vs axis so would not fit in here. If you must have allied vs axis then I suppose if you want enough people you will have to go scripted. The joy of being up against huge odds in ac or numbers superiority wears thin quickly in a 24/7 arena as does (IMO) the lack of variety such an arena forces. I mean.. fight one 109 with one spit and you've just fought all the combinations for about 3/4 of the setups available in an allied vs axis arena. you can circumvent some of the sameness by say, making everyone half blind but... when you finally do get into the fight it is the same one. At least a scripted scenario and it's "goals"makes for some action and... numbers.
For the MA I would like to see an area in that huge new map they have where early war planes could fly unmolested by later planes. I would prefer some canyons near the ocean. Maybe later another area for perk and late war planes only.
Still... for now, I see nothing wrong with "allied vs axis arena" for a name. It is descriptive and would attract people of that ilk.
lazs
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How about
The Squad Arena.
Splash1
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Originally posted by lazs2
Still... for now, I see nothing wrong with "allied vs axis arena" for a name.
As long as allied vs axis isint limited to ETO. If that's the case, that large sucking sound you hear will be the USN / IJN folks (points to self) rtb'ing back to the Furball Arena :(
Gainsie
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red tail... allied vs axis would mean just that but... face it... 90% of the guys who like allied vs axis want only to fly spits or are 109/190 guys that want to compete with (cough) less variety of enemies. maybe a few pee 51 guys...They are all very, very eto centric. allied vs axis has very lttle opportunity for parity so.. you have to either be the windshield or the bug... most just wait till they are the windshield or... switch sides in order to be the windshield. The more people you attract... they more this happens since they are not so "dedicated" to make things work.
To stop that... you need to script things in an allied vs axis setup so that the numbers and such work out to some semblence of parity. with parity you get fun and with fun you get players.
lazs
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We have TODs for all this strict mission stuff. Thats what they are there for. Please dont turn the CT into that.
We just want a "WW2ish" arena that we can call home. Dont try and turn it into a 24/7 Scenario. It wont work.
Let the participants decide the level of involvement they want themselves, dont impose it.
Regards.
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Originally posted by lazs2
red tail... allied vs axis would mean just that but... face it... 90% of the guys who like allied vs axis want only to fly spits or are 109/190 guys that want to compete with (cough) less variety of enemies. maybe a few pee 51 guys...They are all very, very eto centric. allied vs axis has very lttle opportunity for parity so..
I have heard this before, but because it is so contrary to my experience, I feel compelled to ask:
- what makes you think that A v. A must always be one-sided?
- what makes you think that 90% of A v. A allied fliers want to fly spits?
- where is the logic of the claim that the Luftweenies want to fly against inferior planes, especially if the Allies are all supposed to be spitdweebs?
- oldman
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Actually Oldman, I think the popularity of the Tunisia terrain and planeset gives some small validity to Lazs contention.
What I fail to understand though, is why Lazs considers this to be such a bad thing.
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I like the idea of a mission theater..
I like the idea of introducing new planes in the CT for a week..
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Add my vote to the Mission Room idea.
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"I have heard this before, but because it is so contrary to my experience, I feel compelled to ask:
- what makes you think that A v. A must always be one-sided?
- what makes you think that 90% of A v. A allied fliers want to fly spits?
- where is the logic of the claim that the Luftweenies want to fly against inferior planes, especially if the Allies are all supposed to be spitdweebs?
- oldman"
wow... kinda read a lot into what i said there eh oldguy?
I don't think allied vs axis is allways one sided... just about 90% of the time but I mean... How many BOB setups can you run till you puke?
Where did I say that 90% of allied guys wanna flyu spits? I think 90% want eto and want to fly spits 51's or maybe a 38 or two. Perhaps it is you who is thinking that?
luftweenies like to fly against inferior planes?? LOL... of course they do! they love when the 190 comes out and they can fly against spit 5's... they want planes that were rare as hell like the D9 ... They want every field mod that was ever thought of and they LOVE any slice of history where they can have the advantage even if it never existed. They squeal like pigs if you suggest anything that adds parity like a 51A durring their baby seal clubbing '42 period... ok to have D9's but the 51a was not important enough?
hfmudd... I only consider it a bad thing so far as it applies to me. I have no interest in recreating the give and take and lopsidedness of WWII. I read the book and I know how it comes out. I am not a re enactor and I don't ever think I am a WWII pilot. I want action and parity and variety with WWII weapons. Allied vs axis is the opposite of that for me.
Most players are opportuninsts... if you can attract a lot of players to an allied vs axis arena..... It get's ugly fast... No more "good guys/elite club" no, everyone grabs whatever side has the current uber ride and steamrollers over the other. The numbers become lopsided and the tempers short. Say "it won't happen here" all you want but online sim history mocks you.. not me.
lazs
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I agree on some points and disagree on others
I disagree that 90% fly spitties,109's190's and ponies. Personally I don't fly any of those. Although I understand Laz's point about limits to axis OR allied. Since I enjoy flying plane types from both Axis and Allied, Limiting myself to one side or the other is a trade off I'm willing to accept in return for a more "historical" atmosphere.
The problem arises when you get STUCK constantly on ONE side threw the whole tour trying to balance the numbers. This leaves Many people with NO choice of axis or allied ( IMO, the numbers always favor the Allied by a huge numbers gap) leaving the Axis as an underdog most of the time. Now for some that love flying the Axis side this is not a problem. but for people that like to Mix it up, this causes monotany,stagnation,frustration, and eventually leave the CT and never come back ( me being one of these). A few weeks ago it was 40 something to 5, Now haw can you have fun in that?
As far as HiTech's suggestion about a mission theater, maybe it would work maybe not, it's his ball, he can do what he wants. We have senerios,TOD's,KOTH,WW, I'm not sure changing the CT to this type would fill the numbers, although i do agree something nees to be changed.
Laz meantions a "script" Hitech meantions "Missions" Both are scripts. So IF you combine these you have the "rolling planset".
Another note, Most people are so hypocritical when it comes to the dreaded word "SCORES". IMO we need the score page and scores whether you look at them or could give a rats bellybutton about them, they are needed. It's like watching a football game and not keeping score. Then why watch?
Don't agree, look at the frame 3 for TOD not being posted. Why fly a TOD if your not posting who won?
"IF" a script is needed you need a starting point AND an ending point. Parity? A rolling planeset would Help this, but not fill it in the capacity of the MA where every plane for 3 sides is available to all. But It would be a sart in the right direction (IMO)
I like the Axis Vs. Allied, but there is always the issues at what point do you cut off the planeset? One side will always have the "lovely end of the stick" IMO a scripted rolling planeset, everyone gets the good and the bad on an even keel.
There would be those that would log on and unfortunately always log on the time when they are the underdog in the planeset era, but then again since this is 24/7 i'm sure it would balance itself out. I'm also sure if HiTech wants to turn it into some sort of mission theater you would more likely miss the boat when signing on, than have a ride, And waiting for the boat would be unacceptable. I'm not dissing the Idea, just pointing out it will need alot of work. Maybe a combination of the two, a hybrid.
My thought for the CT may be Moot since I don't fly in there anymore, Nor do many that where so gungho at it's birth. We all have our personal reasons why we do or don't fly the CT.
Good maps don't insure the masses will fly the CT, Nor does the good set-ups. It's a right combination that sparks, and the numbers come. I don't think it's a parity issue, Check out any senerio the numbers don't lie and That has less parity than any arena. I think we are bouncing all around the answer but not hitting what the CT arena trully needs. Do I have the answers? NO. do i have suggestions? Sure.
90% of AH people will never read this, 9 % will look and see it's to long a read and pass threw it. .5% will post a flame reply just to disagree for no reason other than to start a confrontation. .25% will read it and not post anything. .25% will post a reasonable reply to add the the conversation hoping to get to a conclusion and add to helping the "CT"
AKNuttz
(Artist formerly known as NUTTZ)
As far as Originally posted by lazs2
red tail... allied vs axis would mean just that but... face it... 90% of the guys who like allied vs axis want only to fly spits or are 109/190 guys that want to compete with (cough) less variety of enemies. maybe a few pee 51 guys...They are all very, very eto centric. allied vs axis has very lttle opportunity for parity so.. you have to either be the windshield or the bug... most just wait till they are the windshield or... switch sides in order to be the windshield. The more people you attract... they more this happens since they are not so "dedicated" to make things work.
To stop that... you need to script things in an allied vs axis setup so that the numbers and such work out to some semblence of parity. with parity you get fun and with fun you get players.
lazs
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%@&
(Artist formerly known as NUTTZ)
Are you changing your name to a symbol too?
:)
Great post NUTTZ!
I agree.
I do think the lack of score in the CT may be hurting it a tad, but remember, the text buffer is also a form of score, as is the greeness of the map!
Lots of ideas are worth trying in the CT. This is one of them.
eskimo
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I do not like the mishion idea for the CT.I prefer the existing format to that of the mishion type.
I do think a name change would be a great Idea, and that the name should have Areana in it somewhere.
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I think either 'WW2 Arena' or 'WW2 Historical Arena' would bring more guys in.Ditch this Theater crap.
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What Brady Said!:D
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I agree with Lowe about what Brady said :p
But seriously AKNuttz had some very good points along with Lasz :eek: Lasz you made some well founded arguements:D
I don't like the mission idea...UNLESS it was not a permanent mission areana...but I would be interested if there was a few selected missions at discrete intervals during the day and night and maybe in an unpopulated area so as to not interfere (both ways) with others in the CT.
As far as a rolling plane set...that might work on some level but I really did like the CT when only 1 plane was enabled at each field :D to Eskimoe for suggesting the set-up
Although I think the majority of the CT poplulace didn't be the numbers I saw in there.
Anyway...it's just thoughts :)