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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: hitech on May 31, 2002, 04:51:52 PM

Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: hitech on May 31, 2002, 04:51:52 PM: (http://www.hitechcreations.com/pyro/akd.jpg)

Thanks to the AK's for our first terrain set up for 1.10

It contains 12 seperate zones of control. To have the resources from the zone your country must own the primary field (the 3 strip one) in the zone.

The primary zones, the ones that are the out side and the ilands are not capturable and contain the countries HQ.

To give you a sense of scale, think of all 4 current main arena maps put together.

HiTech
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Innominate on May 31, 2002, 04:54:42 PM: Wow.

Hmm, with this map, we REALLY need b29's and nukes :D
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Rude on May 31, 2002, 04:55:09 PM: Peace and Love in AH....dig it!

:D
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Superfly on May 31, 2002, 05:01:51 PM: :)"Come on people now :)
:) Smile on your brother :)
:) Everybody get together :)
:) Try to love one another right now" :)

KABOOM!
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: bozon on May 31, 2002, 05:05:41 PM: Quote
Peace and Love in AH....dig it!

it's not peace, it's a mercedes! :eek:

Bozon
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: funkedup on May 31, 2002, 05:07:32 PM: That looks entertaining. :)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Tac on May 31, 2002, 05:07:49 PM: *Duke Nukem Voice*

WHO WANTS SOME?? :D :D
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Animal on May 31, 2002, 05:10:36 PM: Quote
Originally posted by SUPERFLY
:)"Come on people now :)
:) Smile on your brother :)
:) Everybody get together :)
:) Try to love one another right now" :)

KABOOM!

Dude... bizarre... same song crossed my mind when I saw that giant pseudo peace sign :eek:
I knew those AKs were queer hippies
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on May 31, 2002, 05:11:41 PM: mmmmmm cookie :D
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Roscoroo on May 31, 2002, 05:47:33 PM: wow an upside down peace sign ....
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Beefcake on May 31, 2002, 05:47:38 PM: SWEET MOTHER OF COD!!!!!!!! LOOK AT ALL DEM TARGUTS!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTT!!!!!

VERY Nice HT!!!! (and AKs hehe) :)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: FDutchmn on May 31, 2002, 05:51:45 PM: looks like a pizza to me :)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: K West on May 31, 2002, 05:54:36 PM: lol Superfly. And same here FDutchman :)

I definately forsee a LOT of fun in that terrain. Reminds me of the old beta terrain but with rivers instead of high mountains dividing the sides.

Westy
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Zippatuh on May 31, 2002, 06:00:05 PM: Sweet! Very cool!

~~AK's - nice work.~~
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Octavius on May 31, 2002, 06:08:20 PM: hoooly man!!! its... HUGE!

Just looking at that thing gives me the willies... good bye old ways of AH! Here comes a brand new way of life!!!

EDIT: on second glance, that arrangement is GENIUS. Multiple frontlines for every country, sweet deal!
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Octavius on May 31, 2002, 06:11:40 PM: What shall we name this beast? I like FDutchman's and Westy's idea... The Pizza Map?
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: eskimo2 on May 31, 2002, 06:17:58 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Octavius
What shall we name this beast? I like FDutchman's and Westy's idea... The Pizza Map?

Peace-a-Pizza!

eskimo
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: SKurj on May 31, 2002, 06:22:48 PM: I think the pizza map has already taken hold!!

I christen thee!!! pizza!!!!!

dunno how this is going to play out... countries separated may be a tuff go!! but it should be possible to avoid a gangbang!!

WTG HTC and AK's

SKurj
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Biggles on May 31, 2002, 06:26:10 PM: Far out, man, but suppose they gave a war, and noone came?
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on May 31, 2002, 06:30:01 PM: All maps together WTFG!!!!!!!!

That is what we need more room

:cool:
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on May 31, 2002, 06:31:30 PM: Almost a VW map :)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: MugZ on May 31, 2002, 06:32:25 PM: LOL . Looks like a 3 month War to me. heheheheh
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: blkmgc on May 31, 2002, 06:32:26 PM: Can I get anchovies on my large field?

blkmgc

Edit- you have to spread out the mushrooms just a ...what?.....mountain range you say?......

Ok Im stepping AWAY from the box now.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Commander rialbh on May 31, 2002, 06:33:49 PM: Looks Cool.
Now when the AK's do an NOE mission we can all accuse them of having inside info! :)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: SKurj on May 31, 2002, 06:34:30 PM: woah.. i count 5 fleets per side

SKurj
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: GRUNHERZ on May 31, 2002, 06:36:18 PM: Atre you serious HT? AKs made this?
Title: Re: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: SKurj on May 31, 2002, 06:36:32 PM: Quote
Originally posted by hitech

The primary zones, the ones that are the out side and the ilands are not capturable and contain the countries HQ.
HiTech

does this mean all the bases on the islands and the outside ring are uncaptureable??
or just the zone and any facilities within them?

SKurj
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Ozark on May 31, 2002, 07:01:34 PM: LOL.. I like it! :)

You can blame this on Mr Pizza Puck! :p

Hmmm.. I wonder what we'll get by sending Ice Cream to HTC. ;)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: john9001 on May 31, 2002, 07:07:37 PM: thats not a peace sign, peace sign had 4 radials not 3. peace sign looked more like the footprint of a chicken

yes looked like a pizza to me

fighter pilots make movies , bomber pilots make history
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Ozark on May 31, 2002, 07:25:53 PM: Quote
Originally posted by john9001
thats not a peace sign, peace sign had 4 radials not 3. peace sign looked more like the footprint of a chicken

I beg to differ. My old rooster, Zadar, “Rooster from Hell”, had a frog hair more toes than that.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CptTrips on May 31, 2002, 07:31:44 PM: >does this mean all the bases on the islands and the outside ring
>are uncaptureable??

No, the primary supply "zone" is not capturable, but the fields are. Meaning any fields in that zone you capture must be supplied externally by goon and gv's.

Wab
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: ra on May 31, 2002, 07:38:35 PM: Which of those fields is A1? We need to know where the perma-furball is going to be.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: hblair on May 31, 2002, 07:53:26 PM: Looks great Wabbit, now that the cat's outa the bag, sling us some screenshots of some shorelines, etc. Lets see what the textures look like.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: hblair on May 31, 2002, 08:10:35 PM: BTW Wabbit, We really appreciate the effort you and whomever the other AK's are that worked on this. I'd heard that you guys were working on a new Main Arena 512X terrain a few weeks ago and was really looking forward to seeing it. I know a terrain of this scale is a huge undertaking, looking at the complexity of the strat and whatnot, especially when you're doing it for free. :)

Your time and effort was well spent in that several hundred pilots are gonna grin when they log in and see this behemoth.

Thanks Again. :)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Virage on May 31, 2002, 08:14:36 PM: Great job AK's! Can't wait to try it out. New strat looks promising too.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CAV on May 31, 2002, 08:14:55 PM: I must be the only one in AH whos disappointed at seeing this map. When it was said that we was getting new maps, I was thinking and hoping....

I would see The Mediterranean, Europe or the South Pacific. Maps that I can look at and say "I know where this is I have been there. What I end up seeing is Pizza Pie....

CAV
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKDejaVu on May 31, 2002, 08:18:49 PM: 3287 bags of cheetos and 4290 bags of doritos were consumed during the generation of this map.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CptTrips on May 31, 2002, 08:54:40 PM: >I must be the only one in AH whos disappointed at seeing those
>maps.

Its not the only 1.10 map you're ever going to see. It just happens by accident to be the first one.

I already told the AK's to steel themselves. 1/3 will hate it, 1/3 will love it, and 1/3 won't care one way or another.

But at least thats 2/3 that don't hate it. ;)

Btw, while AKCurly, AKNimitz, AKIron and myself were the principles on this map but we'd like to thank the other AK's who assisted us in the time consuming testing and feedback:
AKShrike
AKWeav
AKSwulfe
AKNemo
AKKarma
AKChuckles
AKWarp
AKWrong
AKZero
AKRoper

And especially to HTC for a great sim and an oppertunity to contribute.

Hope most of you enjoy it.

Wab
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: MugZ on May 31, 2002, 09:02:53 PM: Am i the only one who thinks these new maps will cause a long drug out WAR ? Perhaps 3 or more weeks on the same terrain?
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CAV on May 31, 2002, 09:11:53 PM: Quote
these new maps will cause a long drug out WAR

I am OK with the size and I hope it will cause a long war. I just think someone had take out from "Pizza Hut" one to many during the making of this map.... LOL

CAV
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: jconradh on May 31, 2002, 09:16:30 PM: This is just a verrrryy long troll, right?
If it isn't, why didn't HiTech post it in the announcements rather than here?

:)

Jeff
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: jconradh on May 31, 2002, 09:17:36 PM: Quote
Originally posted by MugZ
Am i the only one who thinks these new maps will cause a long drug out WAR ? Perhaps 3 or more weeks on the same terrain?

You meant "Drug War", right??

:D

Jeff
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: MugZ on May 31, 2002, 09:18:54 PM: CAV
Not me. I hated AW3 cause i got so boring with only 1 map all the time. When i started AH i was so gald to see that first map change. the some one said thee were 2 more! WOW how cool that was. Now im not looking forward to 3 or 4 weeks on the same terrain. :( Oh btw. AK's Excellent Work. ~~I know that took a lot of hard work. wtg~~
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Oosik on May 31, 2002, 09:41:41 PM: You all are missing the point of a pizza map - WHERE's the BEER. Someone had better check theFDB's.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Otto on May 31, 2002, 10:36:03 PM: "Tiger, tiger, burning bright,

In the forest of the night,

What immortal hand or eye

Could frame thy fearful symmetry?"
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: oboe on May 31, 2002, 11:24:41 PM: Quote
Originally posted by CAV
I must be the only one in AH whos disappointed at seeing this map. When it was said that we was getting new maps, I was thinking and hoping....

I would see The Mediterranean, Europe or the South Pacific. Maps that I can look at and say "I know where this is I have been there. What I end up seeing is Pizza Pie....

CAV

No, you're not the only one, Cav.

Maybe realistic maps will only be found in the CT after 1.10?
Too early to say I guess.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Turbot on May 31, 2002, 11:44:36 PM: NOw where is the easter egg? :)
Title: Re: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Virage on June 01, 2002, 12:07:44 AM: Quote
Originally posted by hitech

It contains 12 seperate zones of control. To have the resources from the zone your country must own the primary field (the 3 strip one) in the zone.
HiTech

12 zones ... 13 Large bases?
Title: Re: Re: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: FDutchmn on June 01, 2002, 01:19:39 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Virage

12 zones ... 13 Large bases?

Right, I counted the large bases, the pizza pie on the left lower corner seems to have one extra. Any comment on this?

Question, are the resources for the Vehicle Bases on the edges of the map and the three 3strip airfields included some where or are they independent?
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 01, 2002, 01:30:36 AM: Yeah, there does appear to be an extra large field, a73 in sector 3,13 should have been a medium field. Good eye, easily rectified.
Title: Re: Re: Re: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 01, 2002, 01:32:18 AM: Quote
Originally posted by FDutchmn

Right, I counted the large bases, the pizza pie on the left lower corner seems to have one extra. Any comment on this?

Question, are the resources for the Vehicle Bases on the edges of the map and the three 3strip airfields included some where or are they independent?

The outer edge zone includes the inner string of islands.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CptTrips on June 01, 2002, 01:38:05 AM: Doh!

Actually Iron its A137 that should have been a med field not a large. A73 is ok.

This wasn't the testers fault. They didn't know what the fields should be. I should have caught that.

Wab
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKcurly on June 01, 2002, 02:56:28 AM: Three things that I *REALLY* like about this map are the following:

1) Absolutely symmetric arrangement of fields. There will be no dreaded "SouthEast Corner."

2) Look at the outer ring - see all of the vehicle fields? Each country in the outer ring has one airfield. To win the war, you're going to have to capture the vehicle fields and you're not going to do that with goons. Should be some interesting GV battles with minimal airplane interaction.

3) Canyon fights!

Did anyone count the ports? :) As for names, I was sure it would be called "Ring World." :)

As we worked on the map, we wondered among ourselves how long it would take for someone to accuse the AKs of having "insider information." Heh, it's not even in use yet and someone has made that suggestion. :)

curly
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: 0TT0 on June 01, 2002, 02:59:14 AM: Pizza
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: lasse on June 01, 2002, 03:18:41 AM: Am I right if I count 13 ports or so ?

Will that mean 13 or so CV groups ?

Imagine grouping 4 or 5 CV groups together, wow cool :):D

The Wild Vikings
(http://www.lasse.as/twv.gif)
Commanding Officer

BTW, it just have to be the PIZZA map ;)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: icemaw on June 01, 2002, 05:16:01 AM: Looks great looking forward to it. Thanks for all the hard work AK's =S= How bout postin a screen with alts turned on so we can get an idea of elevations.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Wilbus on June 01, 2002, 05:21:08 AM: NIIIIIIIIICE!
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Tumor on June 01, 2002, 05:24:09 AM: ....?? cod, from a bunch of Quakers to a bunch of upsidedown peaceniks!! sheesh.

:D

HiTech/AK's, if I told ya that was a good lookin/purdy map I'd be lyin, but it does look fun as hell!
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: MugZ on June 01, 2002, 05:35:17 AM: WW11 Flight sim? Where?
Again i extend a great WTG to the AK's. For i know that they dumped alot of work into this project.

I for one am not happy with the idea of using a non historical War site terrain.
Just doesnt feel like a WW11 flight sim looking at an forien terrain.
I will continue to play AH. I love the game. however this new direction we are taking with these terrains seems a littli SciFi like. :( and im not a Star Trek fan. However in time im sure i will git tired of the radical changes and drop my membership. Thats just the way i am.
Hope we dont start flying space ships:D
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Flossy on June 01, 2002, 06:12:13 AM: Quote
Originally posted by MugZ
I for one am not happy with the idea of using a non historical War site terrain.
A terrain for MA use needs to be symmetrical, not favouring any one country - just as we all play all aircraft against each other, which is not historical, we need an even playing field. There are historical maps being created all the time - but these will be used in true historical situations like the CT or the SEA, with historical planesets too.

I personally think we are spoiled by all these terrains in AH - we had the same maps for years in AW, and never thought much about it - in fact when one particular old terrain was put into retirement, the whines to bring it back went on right up to the end.... and it was buggy as hell! :p

I am looking forward to this new terrain, the screenshot in the calendar looks great! :D
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: FDutchmn on June 01, 2002, 06:26:21 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Flossy
A terrain for MA use needs to be symmetrical, not favouring any one country - just as we all play all aircraft against each other, which is not historical, we need an even playing field.

This I agree from the point of view of fairness. On this map there will be no hiding of CVs either :D.

However, I think that while symmetry offers fairness, it might limit creativity... let's say for the Mindanao map, while it was unfair in certain respects, there was different taste for invading or defending different parts of the map. I myself wouldn't mind a lopsided map, as long as the winning team in the reset before is placed in the least favorable position on the map :D
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: klem on June 01, 2002, 06:35:05 AM: Ouch! Will be interesting to see how this pans out. :eek:

So, how does a country Win?

Do all 3 island zones have to be won to 'Win' ?

Once an island is Won, is that it for that zone? Or will ebb and flow mean re-takes and an endless fight?

Like to know - 'cos it looks like a 6-10 week war at least. Will maybe need the organisation and strategy of a scenario !

btw, Can HT accommodate 1000 people logged in to one arena at once ? :D

klem
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Flossy on June 01, 2002, 06:37:36 AM: Quote
Originally posted by FDutchmn
let's say for the Mindanao map, while it was unfair in certain respects, there was different taste for invading or defending different parts of the map. I myself wouldn't mind a lopsided map, as long as the winning team in the reset before is placed in the least favorable position on the map :D
Yeah, that's true... of course, there will always be the whiners who reckon their country always gets the least favourable part of the map. Must admit, I do like Mindanao's irregularity.... :)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: ccvi on June 01, 2002, 08:18:12 AM: Quote
Originally posted by bozon
it's not peace, it's a mercedes! :eek:

Yes, and it's flying inverted! :D
Title: I don't like this map also Cavalear!!
Post by: HeLLcAt on June 01, 2002, 08:30:31 AM: I don't like this map at all. First of all theres way too many bases meaning that a bomber is going to try for a bombing run, but will be killed within the first 5 minutes of trying to get some alt. I agree with Cavalear totally, The Mediteranian, South Pacific, etc. The only way I would get to like this map is either at least half of the fields were taken off or only the fields in 1 of the 3 sections could be captured. I like the map AK's CURLY & NIMITZ!, but not for MA purposes. Way too many fields. to all. Cav write back.

~BlueiceJ~
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Innominate on June 01, 2002, 08:42:43 AM: You need to remember that the map is four times the size of the ones we have now... Those bases are nowhere near as close together as they look.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CptTrips on June 01, 2002, 08:48:13 AM: We tried to keep the fields are at the same density as the current MA maps. No closer than 0.75 sector, no farther than 1.5 sectors on average. Each of the sector squares on that map are still 25 miles across.

Except for the outer gv fields in the "Dune Sea". But they have remote spawn points
to put them close enough for an attack.

Wab
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: straffo on June 01, 2002, 09:07:17 AM: About the Pizza design I will warn Camouflage lawyer !

It's an obvious copright violation :D

Check here New terrain - "Battle for the City" (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=39965)

Ps : wtg AK's ;)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 01, 2002, 10:23:01 AM: I think the large maps will better accomodate both those that want to furball and those that want to play more strategically by land grabbing.

Winning the reset is fun but not necessary to have fun. If you are goal oriented there are four zones per country, 3 of which can be captured. These should offer a challenge.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 01, 2002, 10:33:39 AM: Quote
Originally posted by AKcurly
As we worked on the map, we wondered among ourselves how long it would take for someone to accuse the AKs of having "insider information." Heh, it's not even in use yet and someone has made that suggestion. :)

curly

There's no way they could already know of the secret underground bases with spawn points to all the large fields. :D
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CAV on June 01, 2002, 10:53:28 AM: Quote
I agree with Cavalear totally

Its CAV as in CAVALRY....

Cavalear is some type of gay guy that dresses funly.... or a sports team.

CAV :rolleyes:
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Monk on June 01, 2002, 12:01:11 PM: Looks like that pie that the dude slamed dunked in the movie American Pie :eek:
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Charon on June 01, 2002, 12:10:58 PM: It looks really cool and it's going to be great to try out. For all you "chicken littles" -- chill dudes! The sky isn't falling just yet. If there turns out to be unfixable problems with the map, or if the gameply isn't what was expected, then the fix is pretty simple and quick at HTC's end.

WTG

Charon
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Kaz on June 01, 2002, 12:41:20 PM: thought just crossed my mind when ra mentioned the perma furball at a1...why not have people log on to different fields on the frontline everyone won't log on to the same field but they'll be distributed as evenly as possible along the frontline fields.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Kaz on June 01, 2002, 12:46:40 PM: another thought... on a map this big and with sides capturing/ losing fields this will probably take some time to win sooo how about some easter egg type stuff like the giant squid to help entertain the masses? another thing that crossed my mind... hopefully none of the maps will have a gangbang area like ndisles that all sides hate.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Gypsy Baron on June 01, 2002, 01:07:57 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Innominate
Wow.

Hmm, with this map, we REALLY need b29's and nukes :D

Agreed... one needs to nuke THIS ludicrous "terrain" right
off the face of AH!

I can only HOPE that this is a giant troll/joke!
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Pongo on June 01, 2002, 01:17:54 PM: I think that country symetry is far more importent then historical coast lines....
Wtg AKS.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 01, 2002, 01:39:40 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Gypsy Baron

Agreed... one needs to nuke THIS ludicrous "terrain" right
off the face of AH!

I can only HOPE that this is a giant troll/joke!

You're outta luck there GB, it's real. Are you one of those folks that puts salt on your food before tasting it? :p
Title: Re: I don't like this map also Cavalear!!
Post by: Octavius on June 01, 2002, 01:53:35 PM: Quote
Originally posted by HeLLcAt
I don't like this map at all. First of all theres way too many bases meaning that a bomber is going to try for a bombing run, but will be killed within the first 5 minutes of trying to get some alt. I agree with Cavalear totally, The Mediteranian, South Pacific, etc. The only way I would get to like this map is either at least half of the fields were taken off or only the fields in 1 of the 3 sections could be captured. I like the map AK's CURLY & NIMITZ!, but not for MA purposes. Way too many fields. to all. Cav write back.

~BlueiceJ~ [/B]

Like Wabbit said, the density is the same as any other map. If you want some alt in a bomber, roll a few sectors from the frontlines and you're good to go. You dont always have to climb in a straight line either (unless you'd rather be afk for climbout). Have faith BlueiceJ, Make your first impressions when ya fly over it :)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Booky on June 01, 2002, 01:59:11 PM: Maybe im blind or maybe I just don't know how to tell with the current pic, but what are the field elevations and who owns what? Is there going to be just two teams now, or still three?

I personally love the idea that there is going to be some great GV action, maybe we get a Tiger or something :-)

I also like the fact that it looks like you will need at least 50% fuel in buffs now. Which is buffs and GV are what im limited too untill fscentral gets a new stock of rudder pedals for my preorder.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Thrawn on June 01, 2002, 02:04:00 PM: Good job AKs.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: BOOT on June 01, 2002, 02:13:05 PM: Finally a realistic terrain :rolleyes:

LOL... I do like the size and all the targets though...

Great Job AK's

~~BOOT~~
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 01, 2002, 02:15:14 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Booky
Maybe im blind or maybe I just don't know how to tell with the current pic, but what are the field elevations and who owns what? Is there going to be just two teams now, or still three?

I personally love the idea that there is going to be some great GV action, maybe we get a Tiger or something :-)

I also like the fact that it looks like you will need at least 50% fuel in buffs now. Which is buffs and GV are what im limited too untill fscentral gets a new stock of rudder pedals for my preorder.

Here's a zoomed section with names and alts turned on. Everything works the same as with the small maps.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: MugZ on June 01, 2002, 02:19:59 PM: Just to be sure no one misunderstands me.
I want my final post to be of a positive nature.
Ak's...... i want to say thanks for all the hard work.
And im sure a tremendous amount of work and thought went into this terrain. Salute! MugZ...OUT
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: poopster on June 01, 2002, 02:22:24 PM: Well...........

Good contribution. I know the amount of work that it entails.

And let me preface this by saying I'll try it, might be pleasantly surprised.

But..

I'm a WWII buff, I fly WWII flight sims because of the enjoyment they bring me. I'm an airshow fan, a history fan and pilot ( retired )

With the addition of early war planes, bomber changes in the works, the strat all ready in place made this game leading edge as far as I'm concerned. Glad I decided to come here.

But to play in a game that has been designed as some sort of pizza pie zone warrier mythical world is probably going to send me packing.

But that's me..

No squeakin, just gone.

And crap I JUST got here........
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: BenDover on June 01, 2002, 02:37:03 PM: Quote
Originally posted by hblair
Your time and effort was well spent in that several hundred pilots are gonna grin when they log in and see this behemoth.

Thanks Again. :)

you must only be thinking of the strat guys

the furballers would say,

"huh? uh?...ermm, where the hell is the furball area!!!! I must go to the board and whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnn neeeeeeeeeeeee"

:p :D :cool:
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 01, 2002, 03:00:05 PM: Quote
Originally posted by BenDover

you must only be thinking of the strat guys

the furballers would say,

"huh? uh?...ermm, where the hell is the furball area!!!! I must go to the board and whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnn neeeeeeeeeeeee"

:p :D :cool:

The furballers can still furball all they want. Those that don't wanna furball will have more room to do what they want. If some are upset because everyone isn't forced to furball then I have to say tough dookie. :p
Title: ALERT !!!!!! AK TUNNELS!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: BGBMAW on June 01, 2002, 03:18:17 PM: Ok Please make sure theres no "AK Tunnel"....I can see it now..some how the AK's have tunnels that go directly to all HQ's and Major bases??...lololl Looks good........

Is there a spawn point map available..that shows you where all the spawn points are???

Or is this gonna be a AK Knows only spawn ,ap???

How do you spell ...Hochi Men Tunnel???.u know viet cong toejam

O ya....i want a 45....so when i get shot down over nme base..I can sneak up to panzer..clim in and plink plink away.....

Why the hell do they have Hull guns......Well to kill troops...Please let me carry my 45 in plane.....lololo

BiGB..................BGBMAW 1st Marine Air Wing

P.S. Thanks HTC and "gulp " Ak's too .....for working on this..it is greatly apreciated........god i hope not to o many peopl read that...lollol
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKcurly on June 01, 2002, 04:54:50 PM: Quote
Originally posted by poopster

But to play in a game that has been designed as some sort of pizza pie zone warrier mythical world is probably going to send me packing.

Heya nopoop,

Most of the main arena terrains are not based on real terrain. I don't remember the number of terrains we went through before the CVs appeared (maybe 2-3?).

Of the current terrains in the MA, Ndisles and SFMA are not based on real terrain; I believe Mindanao and Baltic use actual terrain data.

Nopoop, I would guess that future terrains will NOT be based on real data -- regularly shaped terrains permit an equal division of land resources to make sure that each country has the same number of fronts. While I love the beauty of Mindanao, I really dislike the inherent advantage the NW country has.

Before you get hasty, I would encourage you to remember the following.

1. If the terrain isn't good for gameplay, HTC will junk it.

2. Eventually, HTC will have multiple large maps and we'll rotate through them just like we rotate through the current maps. If you don't like this one, maybe you'll like the others.

Btw, for you bomber junkies, there is at least one airfield at 11k. I would imagine fields like this will attract bombers. But, you need to remember: a) The map is gigantic - you can spend hours flying from one point to another and b) While the buffs will necessarily be high, we're no longer going to have the "laser bomb sight." Instead, AH is moving on to real life statistical bombing (drop a bunch, surely something will hit the target.) :)

We tried to make sure everyone could find the kind of fight they wanted:

1) Outer ring - massive GVs wars with minimal airplane influence.

2) The vehicle fields in the canyons spawn to nearby airfields. Remember the kinds of canyon fights this inspired in the old beta map?

3) There are vast areas with abundant airfields with no spawn points for GVs -- it provides the opportunity for aircraft fights without ground vehicle influence ... GVs will not capture bases like this.

curly
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Sundog on June 01, 2002, 05:16:37 PM: I can't wait to check it out AK's. Finally, a 512x512 MA terrain. In combination with the new bomber formation command, I can see some huge bomber formations forming up already!!!

Now, you guys just have to talk HiTech and Pyro into giving us back our beta Bf-109 desert scheme :D
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Nifty on June 01, 2002, 05:21:26 PM: I will reserve almost every comment or opinion until I have flown on the map for some time.

Only thing I will say is...

thanks for the hard work, AKs! It's appreciated, regardless of whether I come to love the map or loathe it!
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Ghosth on June 01, 2002, 06:40:07 PM: WOW

With all that room there is bound to be a quiet corner where I can milk run buffs and sortie looking for 1v1 & 2v2 fights.

Big ~~AK's & HTC~~
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: K West on June 01, 2002, 06:45:06 PM: "We tried to make sure everyone could find the kind of fight they wanted:"

I predict a 'mission accomp;ished' with this map :) I think it was done very well. and 'thanks!' for the hard work by the all the builders.

Westy
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: SirLoin on June 01, 2002, 06:57:01 PM: It's all Puck's fault for sending HTC free pizza and suds...Maybe next map will look like a case of beer with 24 bases...:D
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CDR Akira on June 01, 2002, 07:20:41 PM: Cav,your just a small junior member in a very large Message board.......(looks up at sky[piano music starts playing,record screaches])

Uuuuhhhhh............

What was I saying?
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Griego on June 01, 2002, 11:29:31 PM: GOOD GAWD thats the ugliest thing i've ever seen.

What kinda drugs are you guys on!

DONT forget to share hehe.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: WxMan on June 02, 2002, 06:21:02 AM: I definitely find this map esthetically unappealing. However, I would liken it to dating a “less than attractive” woman. You have to find the qualities that make each person special.

It’s evident that the AK’s have invested much time and thought into this. ~~So out of respect for their efforts, I am going to reserve judgment until I’ve tried it.~~
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Witless on June 02, 2002, 07:10:40 AM: Hi
I wonder how much time any of us are actually gonna be zoomed out to see the entire map? Not many benny is my prediction, so hopefully those amongst us with an anti-pizza agenda wont have to suffer too much ;) Seems there should be more than enough going on to satisfy everyone's particular foibles (which to my Queens English, is how New Yorkers pronounce Furballs?)

So Ak's Pizza Hut Dominos
Cheers
Witless/Trikky
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: MugZ on June 02, 2002, 08:01:00 AM: Does any one know if there are already more 512 x 512 Maps
ready for rotation?:)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: BenDover on June 02, 2002, 08:35:39 AM: Quote
Originally posted by MugZ
Does any one know if there are already more 512 x 512 Maps
ready for rotation?:)

well.......by the time this is reset, there might be a new one
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: poopster on June 02, 2002, 11:38:02 AM: Curly I will give it a try. Put some green on it somewhere..

Ingame I may be pleasantly surprised.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: NUTTZ on June 02, 2002, 11:48:31 AM: I think i heard that HTC was redoing the beta terrians so they would work in V1.10. I also think the people making maps are at a stand still untill more is known about how the zone strats is supposed to work. Or if even a new TE is needed to make maps for v1.10. But i know I have a few waiting till I know more about the strat ones.

NUTTZ

Quote
Originally posted by MugZ
Does any one know if there are already more 512 x 512 Maps
ready for rotation?:)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: grizz on June 02, 2002, 12:50:18 PM: Quote
Originally posted by poopster
Well...........

With the addition of early war planes, bomber changes in the works, the strat all ready in place made this game leading edge as far as I'm concerned. Glad I decided to come here.

But to play in a game that has been designed as some sort of pizza pie zone warrier mythical world is probably going to send me packing.

But that's me..

No squeakin, just gone.

And crap I JUST got here........

So you're saying the best feature of the game that drew you here was the terrain?

Nothing will change concerning gameplay much. There will still be flights of bombers to shoot down. (moreso with the boomber/strat changes.) You will still kill/die to the same opponents. FM's won't change, plane choice/loadout remains. You will have the same experiences you have now. And judging by your previous posts, and comments made earlier in this one, it was fun.

To say you might leave because of the terrain is just.....well.....silly.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Frost on June 02, 2002, 01:57:50 PM: HiTech or AKs...how long do you think a rest will take on these maps? Will there be a change in terrains if a reset hasn't happened in a predetermined length of time? I just remember people getting pretty cranky when Mindinao was up for an extended period without a reset.

What do you think...100 perks each category for a reset on one of these monsters? :)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Karnak on June 02, 2002, 02:29:07 PM: Thanks AKs. I look forward to this new map.

Everybody, keep in mind that it won't look like a "pizza" from your cockpit.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: wantok on June 02, 2002, 03:27:46 PM: nice work AKs... looks like it will be a fun map. i like the way there will be lots of fronts between zones.

all those complaining about the artificiality of the layout, may i remind you that the existing sfma map is really quite similar - in that it's rotationally symmetrical and doesn't look like natural terrain... yet i don't hear a stream of constant complaint about that map. shock of the new, people, i'm sure once you've been playing in it for a while, you'll love it.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Ghosth on June 02, 2002, 08:29:45 PM: Wait till its released guys!
Going to take a week just to see the high spots. This terrain could take a LONG time to get to know well. Love the GV outer ring, that aspect has been sadly lacking on the Mindanao map.

I do predict that this map will favor the attackers. Those who pick a reletivly quiet corner and wrap up the capture before a defense can be mustered.

I do miss the old downhill run to 27 that we used to have. No better way to shake the blues than to get a panzer to 130 mph! :)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: BOOT on June 02, 2002, 10:00:09 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Gypsy Baron

Agreed... one needs to nuke THIS ludicrous "terrain" right
off the face of AH!

I can only HOPE that this is a giant troll/joke!

Oh boy,,,

I wish this were the case =GB= but I am afraid the Main Arena is now beyond realism in any sort... Perhaps the Combat Arena will become more popular now.

This map would be better if it didn't have the Gamey Look to it.
At least something more close to a Believable land mass.

I am not criticizing the AK's by any means... I would not even begin to start on such a task as creating this terrain... Hats off to you guys !!! This is terrific for the community....

From strictly a "GAME" viewpoint, this new map makes perfect sense... Unfortuantely there are a lot of us players that fly more for the simulation than for the winning a war, or for want of creating more realistic missions etc...
Winning a reset imo is fun for awhile, but it tends to wear on the nerves in the long run. Maybe HT will come up with another terrain for another arena.

Something with lots of fleets and Big Blue Planes along the lines of the old BigPac would be my choice.

BOOT
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: LLv34_Camouflage on June 02, 2002, 10:12:51 PM: Quote
Originally posted by straffo
About the Pizza design I will warn Camouflage lawyer !

It's an obvious copright violation :D

Check here New terrain - "Battle for the City" (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=39965)

:D

(http://www.hut.fi/u/vpitkane/LLv34/AH/camoffa_1.jpg)

Good looking terrain, AK's! Well done, I can barely imagine the amount of workload it took to build an MA terrain!

Camo
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 03, 2002, 01:21:45 AM: If resets take too long, and I think they may with large maps, maybe Hitech will consider an alternative to the current method of reducing one country to one base.

One suggestion might be to cause reset when one country owns all (12 on our terrain) the large bases. Or perhaps when one country owns maybe 75% of all the bases. I think it'd be interesting to have multiple conditions that force the reset. But then I'd still like to have an Aces High board game. :D
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: FDutchmn on June 03, 2002, 02:59:58 AM: Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
If resets take too long, and I think they may with large maps, maybe Hitech will consider an alternative to the current method of reducing one country to one base.

One suggestion might be to cause reset when one country owns all (12 on our terrain) the large bases. Or perhaps when one country owns maybe 75% of all the bases. I think it'd be interesting to have multiple conditions that force the reset. But then I'd still like to have an Aces High board game. :D

In such a case, please consider my suggestion on alternative objective for victory conditions...

I have suggested the following issues to be addressed:
Quote
1. its a constant land grab because winning the reset is the objective
2. side with more players wins the reset
3. its not too rewarding to take out facilities like factories or even HQs because it can be resupplied

and came up with this idea:
Quote
What came to my mind is this:
A. Set a time limit for a map reset (let's say 72 hours)
B. A map can be reset within the time limit like we do now by eliminating one side to one base. The side with more bases wins the reset like we do now.
C. When the time comes, the winning side will be determined by the number of perk points awarded per hour of player play.
D. Award bonus perk points for completely destroying strat targets like facilities and HQ. (let's say 10 perks)
E. As an option, the scoring system can be modified like the current ranking system for Pilot ranks and Squad ranks, where the average of the ranks for the categories for Fighter, Attack, Bomber, and Vehicle/Boat Ranks will determine the overall rank. In case of a tie (which will happen...), the raw scores of the perk points per hour will be considered. (I didn't want to say the number of bases as this will be the same as now). A scoreboard as follows will clarify this point:
Fighter Attack Bomber Vehicle/Boat Overall Rank
Bishops xxx.xx (1) aaa.aa (3) xxx.xx (2) xxx.xx (2) (2)
Knights yyy.yy (2) bbb.bb (2) xxx.xx (1) xxx.xx (3) (1)
Rooks zzz.zz (3) ccc.cc (1) xxx.xx (3) xxx.xx (1) (3)

Discussion on this is in this thread:Suffering from the BigPac Burnout Syndrome (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53399)

Blacksheep like it and started the following threads:
You all need to read this one... (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54468)

You have to read this!!! (2nd post) (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54470)

I really think another victory condition is necessary for the MA, not just the reset.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKSWulfe on June 03, 2002, 09:16:14 AM: We play a game where every side is equal in terms of what they can use to "fight" the "war" or whatever you want to call it.

Spits vs Spits, 109s vs Zeros.

There isn't any "realism" in the main arena, want something less gamey- there is the combat theater.
-SW
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Ripsnort on June 03, 2002, 09:29:43 AM: Quote
Originally posted by AKSWulfe

There isn't any "realism" in the main arena, want something less gamey- there is the combat theater.
-SW

Agreed, MA is kinda liked the "RR" arena...anyway, great job on the terrain AK's..which of you were responsible for this? Looking forward to it!
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Nifty on June 03, 2002, 10:46:40 AM: well, after looking at it some more I will say this...

the C205 is about to become my favorite plane. :D

Oh, and I'm not too sure about the idea of fields at 10,000ft. What is that? Bolivia???
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 03, 2002, 11:07:32 AM: Quote
Originally posted by AKSWulfe
We play a game where every side is equal in terms of what they can use to "fight" the "war" or whatever you want to call it.

Spits vs Spits, 109s vs Zeros.

There isn't any "realism" in the main arena, want something less gamey- there is the combat theater.
-SW

All those with negative feelings need to lighten up a bit. Like SW said, if ya want realism there is the Combat Theatre. In fact, you should be glad as perhaps all those like minded won't play on the "pizza" map and will join you in the CT.

At least wait for some information (like trying it out) before rushing to judgement. That's good advice and can applied to life in general. No charge. :)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 03, 2002, 11:12:47 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Nifty
well, after looking at it some more I will say this...

the C205 is about to become my favorite plane. :D

Oh, and I'm not too sure about the idea of fields at 10,000ft. What is that? Bolivia???

Pepperonia? :D
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CptTrips on June 03, 2002, 01:38:04 PM: The project in our SourceSafe is dated at being opened Mar 25. I've expended somewhere around 150 man/hrs. I'm not sure if the other 3 team members tracked theirs. A lot of that was in getting over the learning curve of the editor and the strat system. If we were ever foolish enough to bother doing another one we could prolly cut that time by 30-50%.

This terrain was never intended to be the last terrain you'd ever see. No one ever said that all future terrains have to be exactly like this one. It was intended to be one among many in a rotation. That’s what it will be soon. So we felt we had a little leeway to pursue a particular design philosophy that might be different than the others.

The design of this terrain was a direct reaction to the inequities present in many of the other MA terrains that attempt to shoehorn a historical terrain into a MA environment. I’m sure its possible to do that and be perfectly play balanced for a three way war, but we haven’t seen one yet that was. While we enjoy historical terrains as well, we wanted at least “ONE” terrain that was totally dedicated to play balance and fun density even if that meant surrendering any claims to historical accuracy. We wanted at least “ONE” terrain where no team enjoyed an initial advantage or started off at a disadvantage due merely to the accidents of historical geography. Our two fundamental design criteria were maximize play-balance, maximize fun density. Historical accuracy was not a criteria. Surely in a map rotation there is room for at least one map strictly optimized for game play and fun density. If we can’t tolerate at least that much variety then this is going to become a boring arena. If you wish to re-enact WWII then the CT and scenarios are always going to be much better venues for that. In the MA, in our opinion, BALANCE and FUN are by far the more important requirements.

Now, there are larger issues at stake here that I think many of you should consider carefully. Doing a terrain of this size is a huge amount of work. The degree of effort on a terrain grows linearly in relation to the surface area of the terrain (assuming a relatively even field distribution). So these terrains will roughly take HTC FOUR times longer to implement that the previous terrains. Assuming they are not going to be adding on additional staff, you’d have to expect the time interval between new terrains is now going to be FOUR time longer than they were previously. It’s also a zero sum game. Man/ hours that are committed to a terrain are going to be man hours taken away from modeling new planes and new vehicles and other art assets.

It became apparent, at least to me, that to maintain the variety, and pace of development that we have all come to enjoy, a way had to be found for HTC to be able to accept MA terrain submissions from outside sources in a way they could still feel comfortable with. The MA is their bread and butter. Their criteria and standards for a MA terrain are an order of magnitude higher than what they are willing to accept for the player run scenarios and CT arenas. You can’t just hand them some pet terrain and ask them to put it in the main. You have to come to them with a blank piece of paper and work with them over a period of time to come up with a design from scratch that meets all their criteria. You might have to scrap it and start over several times. There might be features you badly want to include that HT won’t agree to. He does make every effort to allow you artistic freedom, but in the end, after you argued your case, he has the final say. Period. If you aren’t willing to accept that then you’re wasting your time and his. I think there are a lot of “artistic” types that would end up throwing a tantrum and walking off in a huff. You have to be willing work with HTC like an adult. There are sometimes you’ll get what you want; there are some times you have to accept their judgment. In the end, its more important to establish and cultivate a mature, productive working relationship with HTC than it is to get your way on any one particular feature or idea.

So after all that, the huge man/hour commitment, subordinating your artistic vision to someone else’s control, turning over your finished work to become their property which they can change anyway they want, use it or just throw it away…after all that if they do decide to use it you can look forward to pile of derision and complaints on the bbs because it’s a certainty that you won’t be able to please all the various factions. Do you think people are going to be beating down HTC’s door to signup for that kind of abuse? In the end will that bring you more terrains and more variety, or less? Are you encouraging others to make the same effort for no pay or are you showing them that its prolly not worth the hassle? If for every one terrain you don’t like, might you get one or two that you do?

I’ve been on the Internet long enough to develop a cast-iron shell. The words of amazinhunks roll of it like water off a duck’s ass. And I certainly wouldn’t be naive enough to make an argument on the basis of common courtesy, However, I’d think that even the biggest bellybutton should be able to reason. You might want to think carefully about the tone of your reaction to the efforts that others have contributed to the community. If not for common courtesy, then perhaps at least enlightened self interest.

That’s all I have to say about that.

Regards,
Wab
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Ripsnort on June 03, 2002, 01:43:35 PM: Quote
Originally posted by AKWabbit

I’ve been on the Internet long enough to develop a cast-iron shell. The words of amazinhunks roll of it like water off a duck’s ass.

So what your saying is your a tough guy huh? C'mere tough guy, I got something for ya! ;) 75mm AP!

We have a saying here at Boeing: "For all your hard work and dedication you'll recieve in return critisism and ignorance". Applies here I'd say.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: straffo on June 03, 2002, 01:59:17 PM: Quote
Originally posted by AKIron

Pepperonia? :D

YEAH ... fit prefectly well :)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 03, 2002, 05:49:35 PM: Quote
Originally posted by AKWabbit
Now, there are larger issues at stake here that I think many of you should consider carefully. Doing a terrain of this size is a huge amount of work.

Dang Wabb, I wanted some of these armchair terrain experts to find out the hard way. ;)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CptTrips on June 03, 2002, 06:24:33 PM: For HBlair...with permission from HT.

Most of these were just development shots from when I was working on the elevations and textures. So they're nothing fancy but do represent a fair sampling of the various areas in the terrain. Enjoy.

http://www.e-mystudio.com/ah/pics/screenshots.htm

Wab
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Virage on June 03, 2002, 06:44:24 PM: The design of 'Pizza' is a direct reflection of the popular playing styles in the MA. The phrase "By Players, For Players" is truely apt. AK's are to be commended for the amount of effort in building a design that includes something for everyone.

edit: (Just looked thru screenies)

And looks damn good too! I really like the H20. And don't think I didn't notice the color matches the 110g camo for those noe runs.:p Artistic license is allowed.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Karnak on June 03, 2002, 06:47:13 PM: I don't care what you say Wabbit, I'm still looking forward to it.;)

Thanks!:p
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: pimpjoe on June 03, 2002, 06:58:35 PM: this is what im looking forward to

(http://www.e-mystudio.com/ah/pics/images/screen35.jpg)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: klem on June 04, 2002, 01:33:55 AM: Anyone remember that scene from Lenny Henry's 'Chef'......
"I spend ages in the kitchen creating this and without even tasting it you ask for salt?!"

It may not look like haute cuisine but let's taste the Pizza before we complain to the Chef.

klem
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Dowding on June 04, 2002, 03:59:01 AM: I remember that one Klem. :D

It was a good series until they tried to take it mainstream, adding canned laughter as they went.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Flossy on June 04, 2002, 04:53:27 AM: Quote
Originally posted by AKWabbit
Most of these were just development shots from when I was working on the elevations and textures. So they're nothing fancy but do represent a fair sampling of the various areas in the terrain. Enjoy.
Great screenshots! Good work, AKs.... really looking forward to trying this terrain! :D
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Citabria on June 04, 2002, 05:26:31 AM: panzer and ostwidn gonna be stealthy now while m16 m3 and m8 stick out :D
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: hblair on June 04, 2002, 08:14:57 AM: Thanks Wabbit, Screenshots look great. I'm really looking forward to it. :) Thanks for the effort, and keep the cast ducks tail. Don't let the whines discourage you.

Hey, since Nuttz is now an AK, any chance of making him get the "Coffee" terrain back off the backburner? I think something like it would be a cool MA terrain too. You'll need to call him and bother him at work a few times and get him fired up about it. :)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CptTrips on June 04, 2002, 10:25:47 AM: >panzer and ostwidn gonna be stealthy now while m16 m3 and
>m8 stick out

Heh maybe. If you look at the common cactus and sand texture, the m8 m3 m16 blend well into the green cactus, the panzr osti blend well into the background sand. However, they're both toast if they get caught out on the open dunes. ;)

Wab
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: rosco on June 04, 2002, 12:50:25 PM: Kewl, a mars terrain :D

Must admit, at first glance I wasnt impressed, but I doubt Ill spend much time looking at the map as a whole, but rather it will be zoomed in on a more specific area, It is huge after all.

Its got canyons, water, mountains, all rolled into one terrain, or 4 terrains in one depending on how you look at it :) Great job, I cant wait to t ry it out.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: NUTTZ on June 04, 2002, 02:40:55 PM: AHHHHHH the Coffee map, I like that one, funny you would remember that map.

NUTTZ

Quote
Originally posted by hblair
Thanks Wabbit, Screenshots look great. I'm really looking forward to it. :) Thanks for the effort, and keep the cast ducks tail. Don't let the whines discourage you.

Hey, since Nuttz is now an AK, any chance of making him get the "Coffee" terrain back off the backburner? I think something like it would be a cool MA terrain too. You'll need to call him and bother him at work a few times and get him fired up about it. :)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: hblair on June 04, 2002, 03:39:50 PM: No kiddin nuttz, If you have the time, with HTC's blessing, I'd like to see you do an MA map. You were able to finish perdnoia in less than a week, I'm sure you could build an MA map that could compliment this desert one. The more terrains we get at the beginning of 1.10 the longer it'll take us to get burnt out on a particular terrain. Of course it'll take longer to get burnt out on the new maps anyway since they're so huge. We'll be 4 times (4 times the square miles) less likely to fly in the same area over a given period of time as we are on these 256X maps.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: HFMudd on June 04, 2002, 04:13:14 PM: Pimpjoe's image above reminds me of Beggar's Canyon back on Tatoonee. Maybe we can bullseye some Wampsheep. ;)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Yippee38 on June 04, 2002, 04:28:09 PM: I look forward to flying it, but I don't think the clipboard will do it justice. Of course, most of the time people will be zoomed in. However, when you log in and are trying to decide where you are most needed, the map's size will become a problem. If you zoom all the way out, I bet you won't be able to see enough detail.

Have you checked that out AKs?
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Hangtime on June 04, 2002, 04:40:27 PM: Quote
You all are missing the point of a pizza map - WHERE's the BEER. Someone had better check the FDB's.

Henh.

Screw you, oosik! This map looks like nothin less than fatty's wide flat ass, and pizzas the world over are offended.

I dub this map "FATTY'S WIDE-ASS TERRAIN"
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: HFMudd on June 04, 2002, 05:03:35 PM: Martian (http://www.sciflicks.com/the_war_of_the_worlds/images/the_war_of_the_worlds_14.html)

Coincidence? I think not!
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CptTrips on June 04, 2002, 11:52:43 PM: >If you zoom all the way out, I bet you won't be able to see
>enough detail.

Maybe. Not much we can do about that. Thats a FE , not a map maker issue. He said make it 512x512 we made it 512x512.

Truthfully, I haven't had any problem in testing once you get used to it.

But it would be nice to have a button that maybe clears all the icons off so you only see the map with grid, dots and sector counters so you could easily see where the action was.

Pizza map eh? Well fek. I guess thats better than "Lake Uterus".:eek: However anyone with any brains at all should be able to see its REALLY a oatmeal and raisin cookie.

Hmmmm this map makes me hungry.

Wab
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Shamus on June 05, 2002, 11:36:10 AM: Great job AK's!!! . I can see this bringing back 1v1 fights of yesteryear:)

Shamus
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Wotan on June 05, 2002, 11:42:52 AM: Did I miss something I was away a week but I thought the new main map was gonna be based on the map where a1 was once at 10k then was lowered.

Or is this in addition to that map?

Great work AKs btw S!
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKSWulfe on June 05, 2002, 11:45:09 AM: This isn't the only map, this was produced by AKs only. HTC accepted it, and are using this in conjunction with whatever maps they are creating.
-SW
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Apar on June 05, 2002, 11:47:53 AM: Big Salute AK's, wtg!!!!!!

:)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: RatPenat on June 05, 2002, 11:50:23 AM: great job but this map would stop countinuos gang bang of bishops?

NO, sure it can't do nothing
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Ripsnort on June 05, 2002, 12:11:02 PM: Quote
Originally posted by RatPenat
great job but this map would stop countinuos gang bang of bishops?

LOL, keep the bucket warm. ;)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Don on June 05, 2002, 12:14:53 PM: >>it's not peace, it's a mercedes! <<

Looks more like a large pizza with pepperoni, anchovies and green peppers.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Don on June 05, 2002, 12:21:09 PM: >>woah.. i count 5 fleets per side <<

Skurj:

Won't matter IMO, the waterways don't appear wide enoug to accomodate surface ship manuevers. More like a need for Gunboats ala Vietnam.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: gofaster on June 05, 2002, 12:26:40 PM: I give us Knights 4 days befoe we're overrun. We just don't have the resources to fight a multi-front war.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: gofaster on June 05, 2002, 12:38:30 PM: Quote
Originally posted by gofaster
I give us Knights 4 days befoe we're overrun. We just don't have the resources to fight a multi-front war.

Then again, neither does anybody else :)

On that long lonesome highway, east of Omaha....
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Flossy on June 05, 2002, 12:40:29 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Don
>>woah.. i count 5 fleets per side <
Don't forget that is a zoomed out view - zoomed in to the level we are used to (quarter of that size), the waterways will be fairly wide.... :)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 05, 2002, 12:47:18 PM: I think some don't realize the scale of this map. Here's a zoomed in view, will still take quite a while for the CV to traverse these waypoints.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 05, 2002, 12:57:19 PM: Here's another view. You cannot see the other coast, possibly even from the middle.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CptTrips on June 05, 2002, 02:51:36 PM: >Won't matter IMO, the waterways don't appear wide enoug to
>accomodate surface ship manuevers.

There is about as much clearence in the outer channel as there is between islands in the NDIsles terrain.

Again, I think many of you are having a problem adjusting to the scale of the terrain.

Regards,
Wab
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: NUTTZ on June 05, 2002, 03:01:34 PM: Hblair , i don't want to hijack the thread so i'll talk to you in the terrain editor forum.

NUTTZ
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Obear1971 on June 05, 2002, 05:31:30 PM: Come on People !!!!!!

Dont praise him to much, not like it took any effort to do.

Come on, Admit it, you didnt even start up AHEdit. You just scaned in the lid of the pizza you had one everning and sent it in :)

Seriously looks sweet, should be interesting
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Sky Viper on June 05, 2002, 07:04:01 PM: Quote
Originally posted by CAV
I must be the only one in AH whos disappointed at seeing this map. When it was said that we was getting new maps, I was thinking and hoping....

I would see The Mediterranean, Europe or the South Pacific. Maps that I can look at and say "I know where this is I have been there. What I end up seeing is Pizza Pie....

CAV

No CAV, you're not the only one.
I don't care for it myself.
I think it's to damn gamey looking.
It's hard enough to get a strategic movement going in the current terrains.
This thing looks like a 6 front war zone that will be hell to defend or attack.

I'm with you, I would rather see a realistic land mass even if it doesn't have historicly accurate base locations.

Viper
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Sky Viper on June 05, 2002, 07:28:22 PM: Quote
Originally posted by AKWabbit
For HBlair...with permission from HT.

Most of these were just development shots from when I was working on the elevations and textures. So they're nothing fancy but do represent a fair sampling of the various areas in the terrain. Enjoy.

http://www.e-mystudio.com/ah/pics/screenshots.htm

Wab

Now I'm even more depressed.
Sheer sand cliffs?

Grassy desert air strips? (unless HT has a plan to fix this)

With all the GREAT terrains that have been produced and posted, I think HTC could have made 10 better selections than this pizza thing.

Viper
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 05, 2002, 09:43:07 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Sky Viper

Now I'm even more depressed.
Sheer sand cliffs?

Grassy desert air strips? (unless HT has a plan to fix this)

With all the GREAT terrains that have been produced and posted, I think HTC could have made 10 better selections than this pizza thing.

Viper

Another verdict in before the trial. :rolleyes:

How many of those 10 were 512X512 maps with 255 fields?
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CptTrips on June 05, 2002, 10:33:21 PM: SkyViper,

Our community has many great map makers. I look forward to other people putting in the time and work required to complete new MA terrains so I can enjoy the fruits of their efforts. The more maps we get, the more variety we’ll all have to enjoy. Perhaps one of those people will even be you. I’ll look forward to seeing yours.

I think I understand some of the reasons behind your bias against our terrain (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39843&highlight=SkyViper). We had to go through several revision ourselves to meet all of HT’s criteria. It can be frustrating. As I said before, if you are interested in getting your terrain approved by HTC you will greatly improve your chances by getting them involved from the initial design process on.

Instead of handing them your pet terrain and saying “put this in the MA for me”, you’d stand a better chance with “We’d like to build you a MA terrain. Tell us what you want?”

On a practical note, many of the “GREAT” maps we have now are obsolete due either to their size and/or strat configuration. They’ll need to be scaled up and reconfigured. As soon as that’s done I’m sure HTC will be glad to evaluate them.

So really your choice is to spend your time slamming the work we’ve done or grab the new editor when its out and show us how its done with your own terrain. Which of those two paths you choose will define a lot about the kind of person you are.

Regards,
Wab
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: NUTTZ on June 05, 2002, 10:52:47 PM: Quote
Originally posted by AKWabbit
We had to go through several revision ourselves to meet all of HT’s criteria. “We’d like to build you a MA terrain. Tell us what you want?”

Wab

I think this IS the problem, there is no clear cut "Basics" to go by.

But i will surely use your advice.

NUTTZ
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CptTrips on June 05, 2002, 11:16:55 PM: The main rule is:

"DON'T EVEN OPEN THE TERRAIN EDITOR until you have worked out the design in detail on paper first and gotten HTC approval."

This is how we basically worked through the process.

1. Find out HT's basic design philosophy and rules of thumb. (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47918)

2. Work out an initial land mass layout (draw in a paint program) with rough elevation data. Iterate through as many versions as needed to get approval.

3. On top of the land layout with colored dots, decide on field and factory locations. You must meet the field number requirement while maintaining the required average density. Iterate through as many versions as needed to get approval.

4. ONLY THEN start work in the terrain editor to implement the design you and HT have agreed to.

5. At intermediate stages, build a res file to send to HT for evaluation. Fix anything he doesn’t like BEFORE proceeding.

6. Iterate through step 5 until terrain is complete.

So you see, even though the new editor is not out yet, you have weeks of work to be done before you’re even ready to touch the editor. In fact, the new editor is backwards compatible and is ONLY needed to set the fields zone ownership parameter so you could almost complete your entire terrain with the old editor before ever needing the new one. At the very end, with the new editor, you could set your zone ownerships and zone master fields.

So what are you waiting for? Though Nuttz as I’m sure you’ve seen, there are many more people willing to run their mouths than roll up their sleeves.

Regards,
Wab
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: sparks2 on June 05, 2002, 11:49:49 PM: All I can say is i can't wait!!!
A big thankyou to all aks for the map and all there hard work...

Now stop shooting me down!:D
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Sancho on June 06, 2002, 12:31:34 AM: looks great, can't wait to fly it. :)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Toad on June 06, 2002, 12:51:19 AM: Looks like lots of fun.

Good job AK's!

Thanks to all who put in the sweat.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Don on June 06, 2002, 11:51:50 AM: >>I think some don't realize the scale of this map. Here's a zoomed in view, will still take quite a while for the CV to traverse these waypoints.<<

Whether its a zoomed in view or not, the waterways are obviously narrow regardless of the scale. TGs are ocean going vessels, designed to cross, traverse, manuever large oceans and seas, not rivers. I have eyes and a sense of scale, your explanations are not sufficient to discount my point. It is apparent to me the map has included rivers and not seas or oceans. Notice in my response to Skurj I did not levy any criticism of the map itself, my comments were observations ;)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CptTrips on June 06, 2002, 12:01:23 PM: >your explanations are not sufficient to discount my point

I am not interested in "discounting" your point. You're entitled to you opinion.

I was simply trying to point out to you the fact that the average width of the channels is roughly equal to the average width between islands in the NDIsles terrain which noone seems to have problems operation task groups in.

Take what you want from that information.

edit: Just noticed you were quoting Iron not me. In any case, like I said, you're entitled to you opinion.

Regards,
Wab
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Superfly on June 06, 2002, 12:28:31 PM: I think you guys did a nice job with the desert terrain. The textures look great, and it is perfectly balanced. I think it will work just fine. I know how much work it takes to make a terrain. It isn't easy, and it isn't always fun.
However, the terrain looks like a lot of fun to me, and I think a lot of people who are dogging it now will be happy with it when they finally get to use it.
Just think AK's, you're getting a little taste of what HTC gets on a daily basis from the community. :p
After a while, you learn to ignore most of the whining; especially the pre-release whining. :)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Nefarious on June 06, 2002, 12:39:30 PM: Hehehehehe Supa.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CptTrips on June 06, 2002, 12:56:27 PM: >Just think AK's, you're getting a little taste of what HTC gets on
>a daily basis from the community.

Heh. Its not like HT didn't try and warn us. :p

I just hope others are not dissuaded from trying. Allowing user terrains in the MA is a privilege that the communities of most flightsims don't enjoy. It'd be a shame to waste it.

I guess there are always those that do,
and there are those that complain about how those that do did it. :rolleyes:

Regards,
Wab
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 06, 2002, 03:34:32 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Don
>>I think some don't realize the scale of this map. Here's a zoomed in view, will still take quite a while for the CV to traverse these waypoints.<<

Whether its a zoomed in view or not, the waterways are obviously narrow regardless of the scale. TGs are ocean going vessels, designed to cross, traverse, manuever large oceans and seas, not rivers. I have eyes and a sense of scale, your explanations are not sufficient to discount my point. It is apparent to me the map has included rivers and not seas or oceans. Notice in my response to Skurj I did not levy any criticism of the map itself, my comments were observations ;)

Tell me then where in the real world you can find a river that is 20-25 miles across and encirles such a land mass? Or perhaps your definition of "rivers" is not the same as mine.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Apache on June 06, 2002, 03:53:58 PM: Don't know whether I will like it or not until it gets here. In any event AK's, appreciate all the hard work.

~~My friends.~~
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Toad on June 06, 2002, 04:00:22 PM: Quote
Originally posted by AKWabbit
[BI guess there are always those that do,
and there are those that complain about how those that do did it.

Regards,
Wab [/B]

Yep.

There's the WORKER Bees and the WANNA Bees.

;)

Be like ducks.. let it roll off yer backs.

Good job! I look forward to trying it out.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 06, 2002, 04:00:45 PM: Well, did some checking, the Amazon is up to 200 miles wide. Guess it could be a river. But then again, the Amazon holds more water than the next 8 largest rivers combined.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Sky Viper on June 06, 2002, 08:24:13 PM: What you might not be understanding.

I don't care if HT uses my terrain or not. Even if they just told me to f### off, I would. But they made no response, period.
I once asked HT (he in blue), when we might see some "User designed" terrains. He replied, "When a user shows me a good one." WTF does that mean?
Queries went out from several players. Until now I saw no, zip, zero, notta, zilch responses toward criteria or requirements. (other than the fact that jihad's textures look exactly like Mindanao)

However, my bias has nothing to do with my dislike for this map.
I just don't like the Gamey look/feel that it presents.

Viper

Quote
Originally posted by AKWabbit
SkyViper,

Our community has many great map makers. I look forward to other people putting in the time and work required to complete new MA terrains so I can enjoy the fruits of their efforts. The more maps we get, the more variety we’ll all have to enjoy. Perhaps one of those people will even be you. I’ll look forward to seeing yours.

I think I understand some of the reasons behind your bias against our terrain (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39843&highlight=SkyViper). We had to go through several revision ourselves to meet all of HT’s criteria. It can be frustrating. As I said before, if you are interested in getting your terrain approved by HTC you will greatly improve your chances by getting them involved from the initial design process on.

Instead of handing them your pet terrain and saying “put this in the MA for me”, you’d stand a better chance with “We’d like to build you a MA terrain. Tell us what you want?”

On a practical note, many of the “GREAT” maps we have now are obsolete due either to their size and/or strat configuration. They’ll need to be scaled up and reconfigured. As soon as that’s done I’m sure HTC will be glad to evaluate them.

So really your choice is to spend your time slamming the work we’ve done or grab the new editor when its out and show us how its done with your own terrain. Which of those two paths you choose will define a lot about the kind of person you are.

Regards,
Wab
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 06, 2002, 08:29:48 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Sky Viper
However, my bias has nothing to do with my dislike for this map.
I just don't like the Gamey look/feel that it presents.

Viper

Pardon my skepticism, or not. :rolleyes:
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Sky Viper on June 06, 2002, 08:30:44 PM: Quote
Originally posted by AKWabbit

So you see, even though the new editor is not out yet, you have weeks of work to be done before you’re even ready to touch the editor. In fact, the new editor is backwards compatible and is ONLY needed to set the fields zone ownership parameter so you could almost complete your entire terrain with the old editor before ever needing the new one. At the very end, with the new editor, you could set your zone ownerships and zone master fields.

Do tell...you have the new editor already?

You gents made a new terrain with new strat functions that the rest of us are not yet privy to?

Viper
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKSWulfe on June 06, 2002, 08:36:30 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Sky Viper
However, my bias has nothing to do with my dislike for this map.
I just don't like the Gamey look/feel that it presents.

So lemme get this straight, you don't mind fighting (or watching) Spits vs Spits, 109s vs Zeros, Me262s vs Ta152s... BUT, if the map looks gamey well then... that's just going too far!

Is that how it is? Cuz every map will be gamey for the MA... unless they do one with accurate bases.

But of course the bottom line is, it's not a "realistic" representation of a place in the real world and you don't like it. But then, when do things like that, we end up getting maps like Mindanao where a country gets stuck in the corner until a reset *IF* a reset ever comes.

So, the question is... is the ability to play a game and have the potential for equality for each country in terms of chances to win the "war" important to you.. or is it immersion that's important to you?

If it's the latter, the Combat Theater is better suited to your tastes- NOT the MA.
-SW
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CptTrips on June 06, 2002, 09:19:56 PM: Forget it. Just consider yourself squelched viper.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Creamo on June 06, 2002, 09:56:59 PM: ouch
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Sky Viper on June 06, 2002, 10:00:33 PM: Quote
Originally posted by AKWabbit
>Do tell...you have the new editor already?

You ever hear of a beta tester viper?

I was a beta tester on the original terrain editor version as well .(2 years ago?) It was during that beta test that I wrote the bmp2map util because I had early access to the file formats.

Perhaps if you weren't such a turd someone would invite you to join a beta team. Though I can't imagine who would want to work with you. You seam more interested in causing problems that in contributing to the community.

Wab

Tard?
Causing problems?
Not contributing?

Yeah, Mr. amazinhunk, that's me.
Get over yourself Wab!

Viper
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Sky Viper on June 06, 2002, 10:14:45 PM: Quote
Originally posted by AKSWulfe

So lemme get this straight, you don't mind fighting (or watching) Spits vs Spits, 109s vs Zeros, Me262s vs Ta152s... BUT, if the map looks gamey well then... that's just going too far!
....

If it's the latter, the Combat Theater is better suited to your tastes- NOT the MA.
-SW

Well, I don't remember saying anything about the aircraft mix, so I don't know what gives you the right to assume you know my thoughts.

The Sim community as a whole can't deal with a CT type arena.
Most of us understand that I think.

I would figure the following in regard to HTC's view on us:
There is a line between Gamey and Realistic that HTC has to walk.
They watch us to see where that line is drawn.
They know that "realism" is more important to some than it is to others and they make decisions accordingly.

Now, if I shut my mouth and don't say I dislike the gamey stuff, then I expect to see more gamey stuff because HTC has no idea how I (or we) feel.
If I am the only voice, then I shut up and go away with that idea in the trash.
But I'm not the only voice against the gamey stuff. I'm not asking for a picture perfect scale terrain, but at least make something that doesn't make people instantly say "Yick" or "WTF" or "Pizza!"

Viper
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Aub on June 06, 2002, 10:24:20 PM: Cmon! Only 20 more to GO!!!

LET'S GO!! WHOOOO!!!
Title: Need positive words?
Post by: Sky Viper on June 06, 2002, 10:24:21 PM: OK, here are some good words for you poor AK's.

Nice job defending your ground btw.

I like the Strat presented in this terrain. Personally it is appealing to think that heightened strategic thinking is necessary to accomplish anything.

I like that the map is 512sq. More room to move.

I like that HTC "FINALY" is using "Player Created" terrains.

I'm proud of you gents for making it happen.

I'm jealous that you gents can get enough time together to make it happen. :D

Viper
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CptTrips on June 06, 2002, 10:32:13 PM: And I apologize for blowing my cool. Its been a long week.

Wab
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKSWulfe on June 06, 2002, 10:50:35 PM: No, you didn't say anything about the aircraft mix. I brought it up because the whole idea surrounding the MA is gamey to begin with.

Hmm simplified Ground vehicles to being with... simplified bombers (currently)... fighters,bombers, and ground vehicles engaging the same nation, type, or ally of that nation during the real war... bombers engaging bombers(!!) ally's during the real war in particular... and fictitious countries!

The only "realistic" thing in this game is some weapons modelling, and the fighters.

I just don't understand where anyone can pull a "realism" argument out for an arena based completely on fiction....
-SW
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 06, 2002, 10:58:16 PM: Sour grapes plain and simple.

We didn't ask for paise or compliments. We do ask that your mature enough to reserve judgement until you fly the damn terrain.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Swoop on June 07, 2002, 12:24:46 AM: Quote
Originally posted by AKSWulfe

I just don't understand where anyone can pull a "realism" argument out for an arena based completely on fiction....
-SW

Havnt posted in this thread yet cos I was gonna wait until I'd flown the terrain first......but.......this I gotta respond to.

SW,

what I and many of the people who've already expressed an opinion in this thread were hoping for was more accurate terrains like Mindinao so that we can INTRODUCE more realism in our flying. Yeah, sure, ok it's all fictional but at the end of the day, it's just a game and that game is what you make it. Events dont happen often enough or at times I wanna fly (CET here, no events at 5pm on a friday evening) and the CT is never full enough (I wanna fly with 400 people, not 50) so that leaves the MA.

If you take off in the secure knowledge that it's a fantasy world and dogfighting is what it's all about then fair enough, personally I fly like this game is an RPG, not a flight sim.....and realism of the terrain set helps my little fantasy to be more real.....to me anyway.

Fighting on a hippy symbol doesnt help.

However, I'll still fly it and THEN give comment on the terrain itself. Maybe I can just zoom the map in and try to forget what the whole pizza looks like and concentrate on the local area.

In any case, there's more terrains coming out and I'm still hoping we'll get some realistic sets to compliment the fantasy ones.

Swoop

P.S. WTG btw, lotta work there and (appart from the general shape) it looks great at first glance.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Superfly on June 07, 2002, 01:29:53 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Sky Viper

I like that HTC "FINALY" is using "Player Created" terrains.

Just to clear it up. The FIRST terrain ever made for Aces High was created by a PLAYER. Also, the CT is all "Player Created" terrains. We haven't made a single one of them.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Lance on June 07, 2002, 09:59:40 AM: Heh, by virtue of this thread, this terrain is already the most entertaining one in the set. You go girls!
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKSWulfe on June 07, 2002, 10:12:44 AM: Using a "realism" argument in a fantasy arena just doesn't make sense to me.

Immersion? Well, if you can immerse yourself into believing you are in a real combat situation when P51Ds are dogfighting P51Bs, 109s are shooting down Zeros, B17s are fighting... well I've mentioned it all before... then why would a terrain matter so much to you? Cuz the look of it based on the map?

You can zoom it in 4 times and THEN it'll be the size of your mindanao and probably look like it could be from somewhere in the world at that point.

But like I said- immersion or not- that Mindanao map has proven to be a failure in terms of gameplay. One country is ALWAYs screwed, and the country that owned the west of Mindanao was pretty much safe.

It ain't no hippy symbol either.

Give us four countries, we can make a pizza box. Give us two countries we'll make a pizza cutter.

WB had a bunch of non-real terrains in the course of it's initial history. This issue never came up.

We've had two in the MA- Baltic and Mindanao.. and neither worked that well for the MA.
-SW
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Rude on June 07, 2002, 10:19:04 AM: Never ceases to amaze me.....someone takes the time and effort to contribute to our sim, and others crap all over it without any true first hand knowledge of it's attributes. Making hasty judgements lacks wisdom.

I personally was suprised by it's overall look, but also realized that the look of the total has nothing to do with playability. Even if I do not prefer this new terrain over others, I'll still fly it just like I fly Mindanao...I don't care for it's playability, but have made adjustments to how I fly so that I can have fun.

Relax....it's a great sim/game....let's allow it to evolve and be glad of that fact, unlike some in other sims who have no hope.

Thanks to the AK's for your effort....never have liked any of you personally, but am glad to see a new terrain:)

Peace<--------------------- this represents an attempt at humor because the terrain reminds me of a peace symbol....capiche?:)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Frost on June 07, 2002, 10:21:54 AM: Let's get down to the real issue. When are we gonna take bets on where the "black hole" is gonna be( i.e. A1, A44 and center isle)?

BTW...I think you guys did a great job on this map. My feeling is the MA is made for gameplay and this map (regardless of looks) will give have a good mix of gameplay for bombers, fighters and vehicles. It's gotta be hard to build a historical looking map without making it uneven for at least one of the sides and still keep the gameplay enjoyable for everyone. Rather than wanting one map to be perfect let's ask for a good mix of maps.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKDejaVu on June 07, 2002, 11:02:50 AM: Quote
what I and many of the people who've already expressed an opinion in this thread were hoping for was more accurate terrains like Mindinao so that we can INTRODUCE more realism in our flying. Yeah, sure, ok it's all fictional but at the end of the day, it's just a game and that game is what you make it. Events dont happen often enough or at times I wanna fly (CET here, no events at 5pm on a friday evening) and the CT is never full enough (I wanna fly with 400 people, not 50) so that leaves the MA.
And what most of the people who have expressed an oppinion in this thread still fail to realize is that the MA is about balance above all else. All you'd really have to do is find 3 similar land masses pretty equal distances apart and have reasonably similar fronts with equal water/ocean access to all of hem. That's all.

Besides... you should definately be looking for realism outside of your cockpit window... not on the clipboard. I cannot believe that people are so concerned about immersion in regards to the most gamey feature in AH (the clipboard).

And I'll gladly dispute any claims that something like the English Channel map is any more immersive. I fly across the channel and I still bump into a port, an airfield with a square town right next to it. From the aircraft... it all looks the same. From the clipboard though... I can look and see that it is supposed to be England... just withought anything on the terrain that would distinguish it as such.

AKDejaVu
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: -sudz- on June 07, 2002, 02:15:31 PM: Hey, AKs, are you going to try more maps in the future or did this thread make you swear off contributing for all time?

-sudz

PS Not that I've flown this terrain but I'd like to complain about the forth tree on the summit of the hill just outside A45 - it's too close to that 3rd sheep by about a foot or so. Totally unrealistic.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Flossy on June 07, 2002, 02:29:31 PM: Quote
Originally posted by -sudz-
PS Not that I've flown this terrain but I'd like to complain about the forth tree on the summit of the hill just outside A45 - it's too close to that 3rd sheep by about a foot or so. Totally unrealistic.
ROFL! :D
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 07, 2002, 02:46:37 PM: Quote
Originally posted by -sudz-
Hey, AKs, are you going to try more maps in the future or did this thread make you swear off contributing for all time?

-sudz

PS Not that I've flown this terrain but I'd like to complain about the forth tree on the summit of the hill just outside A45 - it's too close to that 3rd sheep by about a foot or so. Totally unrealistic.

We're way to hard headed to take a hint, some of us will likely do another before too long.

Tree? We ain't got no steenking trees!
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Flossy on June 07, 2002, 02:49:14 PM: Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
Tree? We ain't got no steenking trees!
Nope - you have dirty great boulders instead! :D
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CptTrips on June 07, 2002, 02:57:41 PM: >Hey, AKs, are you going to try more maps in the future or did
>this thread make you swear off contributing for all time?

Heh. No good deed ever goes unpunished.

Wab
:cool:
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Sky Viper on June 07, 2002, 04:25:10 PM: Quote
Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Using a "realism" argument in a fantasy arena just doesn't make sense to me.

SWulfe,
Perhaps this is just a words and definition thing, but...
Fantasy is "The creative imagination; unrestrained fancy." Syn. Imagination.

Simulation on the other hand is: "Imitation or representation, as of a potential situation."

This is a Simulation of sorts right?

Viper
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Sky Viper on June 07, 2002, 04:30:52 PM: Quote
Originally posted by AKDejaVu

Besides... you should definately be looking for realism outside of your cockpit window... not on the clipboard.

Well, I suppose you're right.
And when we get the terrain, I'll write you a note about what I find out my cockpit window. (I won't actually because I would prolly just piss ya off. :) )

For now, I've looked through the screen shots and as I posted before, I don't like what I see out the cockpit window either.

Grass Airfields in the desert.
Shear Sand Cliffs (thousands of feet high).

Now, if I'd seen some grass(greenery) to sand transitions that match real deserts...you understand?

Viper
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CptTrips on June 07, 2002, 04:43:17 PM: >I don't like what I see out the cockpit window either.

Hey, its far from perfect. Its our first terrain. We don't even know how the 1.10 strat system will playout. Its never been tried before. You have no real way of knowing until you put 500 people in it. Until then its only theory. We tried our best, though I'm sure it pales in comparison to your artistic genius.

I hope our pitiful submission can fill the gap until we are blessed with the arrival of your superior contribution.

We are lowly worms viper. Forgive us.

Wab
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 07, 2002, 06:16:07 PM: Just to be #200. :D
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Sky Viper on June 07, 2002, 06:23:05 PM: Quote
Originally posted by AKWabbit
>I don't like what I see out the cockpit window either.

Hey, its far from perfect. Its our first terrain. We don't even know how the 1.10 strat system will playout. Its never been tried before. You have no real way of knowing until you put 500 people in it. Until then its only theory. We tried our best, though I'm sure it pales in comparison to your artistic genius.

I hope our pitiful submission can fill the gap until we are blessed with the arrival of your superior contribution.

We are lowly worms viper. Forgive us.

Wab

Sheesh Wab...Lighten up dude!
You shouldn't call your fellow AK's worms just because you can digest dirt.
Seriously tho, you shouldn't take such harsh defences against the things I say.
If you can't handle the criticism then you shouldn't create things that hundreds of people will try to use.

I caught your other post about having a bad week.

~~Viper~~
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CptTrips on June 07, 2002, 06:43:02 PM: No problem Viper. Just looking forward to the chance to critique yours. As are many others are I expect.

Regards,
Wab
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKcurly on June 08, 2002, 03:42:12 AM: To me, the interesting part of this discussion is the concern of a few vocal individuals with the shape and perhaps the colors used (in hindsight, it does resemble a pizza.) The resemblance to a peace sign or pizza came as a real surprise to us. We wanted: Equal number of fronts for all countries and the other issues I've mentioned in this thread.

Perhaps even more interesting is the group of folks who are upset with HTC about making this map a MA map. They're using this thread as a forum to air their unhappiness with HTC and perhaps take a whack at us (AKs) on the side. That's cool. Whack away.

Nothing, absolutely nothing, happens in the MA of AH without HTC scrutinizing the
proposal and evaluating the effects. Can you blame them? It's their livelihood.

Guys, the map is nothing. It will work (affect gameplay in a positive way) or it
won't work (adversely affect gameplay.) If it works, perhaps we will see others that address balance in the same way; perhaps we won't. I dunno. If the map doesn't work, it will be gone faster than yesterdays fish.

For the really disgruntled, I recommend a) Kaopectate or b) come to the CON and
buy wab/iron/nim/me beer. ;)

curly
Title: Feeding the kids
Post by: icemaw on June 08, 2002, 04:52:47 PM: Dinner time. Son eat your pea's. NO I dont like pea's! You have never eaten pea's before how do you no you dont like them?
They look yuky!! They are gross they are green. EEEWWW I dont like pea's
DAMN guys lay off the AK's and Hitech. Give it a chance. Unless your ready to put the time and effort in trying to make something better.
IF YOU EVEN CAN MAKE SOMETHING BETTER!!
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: NUTTZ on June 08, 2002, 08:22:11 PM: Was at the Reading air show today the map the AK's map is the 12th Panzer division emblem!!!!!!!!!

NUTTZ
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Swager on June 08, 2002, 10:48:43 PM: Nice work AKs. Looking forward to flying it. It is nice to see paying people taking their own time out to create something others can enjoy!

TY

Swager
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Wotan on June 09, 2002, 01:06:24 AM: the 12th panzer division emblem is the Yggdrasil. Its the tree of life, or the world tree.

I have it tattooed on the the back of my neck.

Quote
An ash I know stands,
Its name is Yggdrasil,
An immense tree, covered over
By the white sand.
Thence come the dew
That falls in the valleys,
It stands ever-green
Above the well of Urdal.
[/i][/b]

Quote

Of all trees the greatest and best is Yggdrasil...

Its branches spread out over all the worlds and extend across the sky. Three of the tree's roots support it and reach very far indeed. One is among the Aesir,the second among the frost-giants, where Ginnungagap once was. The third extends over Niflheim, which is the source of all that is cold and grim. It was created many ages before the Earth was formed. Under that root is the spring Hvergelmir in the midst of Niflheim , and Nidhogg gnaws the bottom of this root. From this spring flow the rivers Svol, Gunnthra, Fjorm, Fimbulthul, Slidr and Hrid, Sylg and Ylg, Vid, Leiptr, and Gjoll, which is next to Hel's gates.

Under the root that reaches towards Jotunheim is Mimir's well, which has wisdom and intelligence contained in it. Mimir the wise is the master of this well. He is full of learning because he drinks from this well from the Gjallarhorn. Allfather went there and asked for a single drink from the well, but He did not get one until He pledged His eye. In Voluspa it is said: "I know it all, Óðinn, where You left Your eye, in that renowned Well of Mimir. Mimir drinks mead every morning from Valfather's pledge. Know you yet, or what?"

The tree's third root extends to heaven, and beneath that root is the holiest well, called Weird's well. There the Gods hold their court. Every day the Aesir ride there up over Bifrost, which is known as the Ases' bridge... There stands there one beautiful hall under Yggdrasil by the Well, and out of this hall come three maidens whose names are Weird, Verdandi and Skuld. These maidens shape men's lives, and are called the Norns. They take water from the Well each day and with it the mud that lies round the Well and pour it up over the tree so that its branches may not rot or decay. And this water is so holy that all things that come into that Well go as white as the skin that lies around the inside of an eggshell. Two birds feed in Weird's Well. They are called swans, and from them come all the birds known by that name. From the Holy Tree drenched with white mud come the dews that fall in the valleys. It stands forever green over Weird's Well.

But Yggdrasil suffers more hardship than people know. Four stags run in the branches and feed on the foliage. Their names are Dain, Dvalin, Duneyr, and Durathror. And there are so many snakes in Hvergelmir with Nidhogg that no tongue can number them all. Nidhogg is a terrible serpent; in Hvergelmir, which is the worst place to be, he torments the bodies of the dead.

From the Prose Edda

It was put on birth certificates and on gravestones to mark the year of birth. The hippy "peace sign" (an upside down "world tree" rhune) signified death, ie enternal rest.

Death equated to peace and or rest.

I dont have an image I can post but my tattoo has a half wreath and in the center is the "upside down peace sign".

Just in case you were wondering :)

So instead of imagining your fighter is over a pizza imagin your over the Yggdrasil, the world tree. Figure its ragnarok and the forces of hel are in battle with the forces of Asgard. The outnumbered country trapped in the middle is midgard.

Hey you want immersion :) maybe not ww2 but if you look you can find it :)

Yggdrasil (http://www.angelfire.com/on/Wodensharrow/worldtree.html)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Wotan on June 09, 2002, 01:14:20 AM: Heres what it looks like in "rhune" form

(http://personal.jax.bellsouth.net/jax/t/y/tyr88/Screens/eolhsecg.jpg)

Heres the 9 worlds (place the image over the aks map :))

(http://personal.jax.bellsouth.net/jax/t/y/tyr88/Screens/9worldrune.gif)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: krazyhorse on June 09, 2002, 12:51:46 PM: some one had the munchies real bad for pizza when they disigned that one
Title: Intriguing map...
Post by: LePaul on June 09, 2002, 01:35:40 PM: Well, its certainly a neat looking map...can't say if I like it til I fly it some :)

As someone that's tried to get the hang of the terrain editor and make my own maps, my hats off to the AKs. Making a map isn't easy...I havent tried in a while, but from what I'm seeing, its documented a lot better (How to do it...) but still requires a lot of time and effort.

And I'm not so sure my good humor would take such pre-release critiques nicely. Seems whenever we beg for a "bone" and get a screenshot, some of you tear it to pieces. Then, you wonder why there are no new screenshots. And the vicious cycle persists.

Congrats, AKs....

Looking forward to duking it out in DiGornio-Land :D
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: SKurj on June 09, 2002, 03:22:30 PM: from here on the ground... or from 20,000ft above it... can u tell the shape of the continent you live on?

I think not , so I can hardly see what difference it makes +)

SKurj
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Yeager on June 09, 2002, 03:42:40 PM: Wow......I thought HT was joking.

Obviously the map wont look lke a pizza while your flying over it but damn, everytime you go to the tower youll be looking at a dietary nightmare. Thats right! Pizza is a high source of the worst kind of fat, saturated fat. And worse, pizza is like sheep. It has NOTHING to do with a combat simulator. Its lighthearted and fun of course........

I wouldnt think of criticizing the folks that put the time into the terrain. Too much hard work. But I would and do criticize the fact that having a terrain that looks amazingly (intentionally or not) like a pizza kind of reminds me how much more of a game AH is as compared to a serious simulation.

I was terribly excited early on by the simulation in AH but as time goes by Im reminded more and more how its the game in AH thats been so successfull. This has incerasingly put me off more and more as time goes by. Im the type that truly gets his enjoyment out of the simulation. Great game though.......
Title: LMFAo
Post by: BGBMAW on June 09, 2002, 04:42:57 PM: I hesitate to reply somtimes cause it just ads to the "Nerds" in here...Its really funny to see and read the "complanits"...screw all of them....

I still think the AK's have a undergroung Ho-Chi man tunnel in this place...for there GV attaks..lolol

Any ways...PIZZA??? I guess we should not print Maps of Italy cause it looks like a boot???? lolol

I think it looks kik bellybutton --the screen shots....Cant wait to roll my ostwind offa 1 000 foot cliff..lolol

BiGB
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: SKurj on June 09, 2002, 06:36:52 PM: heh the italy boot came to my mind as well +)

SKurj
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKSWulfe on June 10, 2002, 08:54:23 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Sky Viper
SWulfe,
Perhaps this is just a words and definition thing, but...
Fantasy is "The creative imagination; unrestrained fancy." Syn. Imagination.

Simulation on the other hand is: "Imitation or representation, as of a potential situation."

This is a Simulation of sorts right?

Viper

Combat Simulation- but that's where it ends. If it were a flight simulator and laid claim to "fly over realistic parts of the world and dogfight historical counterparts" it would be a REAL simulation.

As it is now, the MA is gamey land. CT, TOD, scenarios, etc are where the "simulation" in this game lay.
-SW
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Wanker on June 10, 2002, 09:56:29 AM: AK's!

You guys have dedicated your time and effort in doing something positive for the community, so that alone is worthy of praise. When performing community service in AH, there are two truths that you must always remember:

1. No matter how much good you do for the community, there will always be someone who does not appreciate it.

2. There are many multiples of people who do appreciate it, even if they don't say so on the BBS.

Keep the faith, brother AK's. You're doing the right thing. Many thanks for a job well done! :)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 10, 2002, 10:00:56 AM: Thanks banana and all the others with positive comments. Even with somewhat thick skin it still surprizes me how irritating a few negative comments can be.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Sky Viper on June 10, 2002, 03:41:21 PM: Quote
Originally posted by AKWabbit
No problem Viper. Just looking forward to the chance to critique yours. As are many others are I expect.

Regards,
Wab

Many others already have. ;) (just after towns were added)

BTW, the critique I recieved was based on a full release of the terrain, not just a silly looking map.
So if you folks think this 5 page irritation about a peace-a-pizza is bad, just wait until we get to fly in it! ;)

In case you missed it....Here ya go. (http://www.no54squad.com/terrains/islands.zip)
(http://www.no54squad.com/terrains/celebes.jpg)

Viper
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 10, 2002, 03:49:12 PM: The link is dead.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Sky Viper on June 10, 2002, 04:00:15 PM: Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
The link is dead.

Fixed...can't type for watermelon today.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Don on June 10, 2002, 04:08:44 PM: >>Tell me then where in the real world you can find a river that is 20-25 miles across and encirles such a land mass? Or perhaps your definition of "rivers" is not the same as mine.<<

;) Well in a follow up post you answered yer own question ;)
Yes, the Amazon River but, I was thinking of one closer to the contigous United States, and it aint a river, its a lake; Lake Huron which is 183 miles wide. Probably a moot point, the ships in AH move at a snails pace anyway :)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 10, 2002, 04:25:04 PM: I've never measured the speed of the ships in AH but I'd be willing to bet a beer they move at a rate commensurate with their real life counterparts within the scale of the terrain. Perhaps that wasn't the point of yer post?
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 10, 2002, 04:41:31 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Sky Viper

Fixed...can't type for watermelon today.

Hey whaddaya know, it doesn't look like sh*t. :D

See Viper, that's how you comment on someone's terrain. ;)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CptTrips on June 10, 2002, 04:44:13 PM: Well Viper, if you posted that in the hopes that I would stoop to your level and publicly slam a terrain you put effort into, you're mistaken. That’s not how AK’s operate.

If my opinion had been asked, and if I had enough respect for you to want to lift a finger to assist, then I would explain to you based on our experience with HT why he might not accept that terrain in the MA. But my opinion hasn’t been asked, and I have no desire to be of assistance to you in any way. You might just wait until 1.10 and the first few patches are out the door and give HT a call. Around 5pm CST seems best as things are starting to wind down there. He would prolly be willing to explain to you the reasons why it might not work in the MA.

Its looks like a fine terrain for the CT, TOD, or scenarios. I would contact Sabre or one of the CM’s if you are interested.

What I personally think of your terrain isn’t relevant. As a member of the community, I am grateful to anyone who is willing to take the time and effort needed to build us a terrain no matter what arena it is put in. If for no other reason than variety. So anyone willing to do that gets my thanks. Even a piece of human excrement like you.

Regards,
Wab
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: BenDover on June 10, 2002, 05:11:57 PM: Quote
Originally posted by AKWabbit
Even a piece of human excrement like you.

Regards,
Wab

lol, wasn't expecting that
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Sky Viper on June 10, 2002, 05:27:50 PM: Quote
Originally posted by AKWabbit
Well Viper, if you posted that in the hopes that I would stoop to your level and publicly slam a terrain you put effort into, you're mistaken. That’s not how AK’s operate.

If my opinion had been asked, and if I had enough respect for you to want to lift a finger to assist, then I would explain to you based on our experience with HT why he might not accept that terrain in the MA. But my opinion hasn’t been asked, and I have no desire to be of assistance to you in any way. You might just wait until 1.10 and the first few patches are out the door and give HT a call. Around 5pm CST seems best as things are starting to wind down there. He would prolly be willing to explain to you the reasons why it might not work in the MA.

Its looks like a fine terrain for the CT, TOD, or scenarios. I would contact Sabre or one of the CM’s if you are interested.

What I personally think of your terrain isn’t relevant. As a member of the community, I am grateful to anyone who is willing to take the time and effort needed to build us a terrain no matter what arena it is put in. If for no other reason than variety. So anyone willing to do that gets my thanks. Even a piece of human excrement like you.

Regards,
Wab

Damn man! WTF is your problem?
Human Excrement?

Quote
Well Viper, if you posted that in the hopes that I would stoop to your level and publicly slam a terrain you put effort into, you're mistaken. That’s not how AK’s operate.

Well, I dunno what kind of human being would have such hopes, but I don't.
I know that's not how the AK's operate, but then I don't hold your comments in testament to rest of the Gents in the Araibian Knights.

Quote
If my opinion had been asked, and if I had enough respect for you to want to lift a finger to assist, ...But my opinion hasn’t been asked, and I have no desire to be of assistance to you in any way.

He won't lift a finger...
Quote
You might just wait until 1.10 and the first few patches are out the door and give HT a call.

Finger #1 lifted.
Quote
Around 5pm CST seems best as things are starting to wind down there. He would prolly be willing to explain to you the reasons why it might not work in the MA.

Finger #2 lifted.
Quote

Its looks like a fine terrain for the CT, TOD, or scenarios. I would contact Sabre or one of the CM’s if you are interested.

ROSES for me??? Thanks!!!
Quote
Even a piece of human excrement like you.

And the final finger...the one that punched through the paper on the wipe.

Wab, I dunno what is going on in your life, but you need to make up your mind...do you love me or hate me?
BTW, I'm married so don't get your hopes up. KIDDING MAN, KIDDING!!!

Viper
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Sky Viper on June 10, 2002, 05:33:13 PM: Quote
Originally posted by AKIron

Hey whaddaya know, it doesn't look like sh*t. :D

See Viper, that's how you comment on someone's terrain. ;)

Yeah. I don't see a problem.
You could'a said it looks like sh*t!

The smile behind it even turns it into fun for me.

Viper

My appologies for turing this thread into a phychology lesson.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKDejaVu on June 10, 2002, 07:13:23 PM: Interesting map Viper.. but don't you think that since the SouthEast country shares two peninsulas with the the other two... it might get hit just a tad bit harder by both countries? The North country and the SouthWest on only share a couple of bases as a front and really can't share more than that without taking bases from the SouthEast one.

AKDejaVu
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Sky Viper on June 10, 2002, 08:36:54 PM: Quote
Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Interesting map Viper.. but don't you think that since the SouthEast country shares two peninsulas with the the other two... it might get hit just a tad bit harder by both countries? The North country and the SouthWest on only share a couple of bases as a front and really can't share more than that without taking bases from the SouthEast one.

AKDejaVu

Yeah, I can see that.

Based on the feedback I got back in December, they also agreed.

I thought maybe a string of Islands to help close up the gaps.
Perhaps some changes to the originating areas.

I like the overlapping that the Pizza (sorry, this name is gonna stick) has.

Check the new yellow dots as possible new bases.
(http://www.no54squad.com/terrains/celebesMOD.jpg)
Viper
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKDejaVu on June 10, 2002, 08:53:27 PM: That's a step in the right direction... now multiply those yellow dots by 2;)

I'm personally not a big fan of the appearance of the desert map presented by my squad. My first thought when looking at it was "oh boy... this is going to get hammered by the AH crowd". Then I got to looking at it... and found there was little else to cut up on.

It looks gamey, but it also looks fair and also seems to present enough variety to appease most players. I then noticed that it really presented most everything people have been asking for in a map. The one exception is how it looks on the clipboard.

The map looks like it will be a delight for the MA.... looks aside. I'd venture to say it may become one of the more popular ones yet.

Though.. I still have one reservation about it (and most of the 512x512 maps)... they are too big for a 500 person arena. Even with the overcrowding in the current maps, there are still plenty of bases to be had. This one presents targets galore (as will any of the large ones) and as such, presents an opportunity for people to go where others aren't... all the time.

On the other hand... it could promote some kind of "we need to patrol" mentality that is virtually missing in the MA today. Perhaps a handfull of people on each side believe that patrols are both necessary and fun. That might change.

Anyways... I think its important to look past the facade and actually see what it has to offer. Nobody presented the map as a historical setup and its living up to those expectations. It just seems to be well suited for the 3 country MA that exists right now.

AKDejaVu <- did not work on the map at all but ate plenty of doritos to commemerate its creation.
Title: Nice job AKs
Post by: crowMAW on June 11, 2002, 07:36:22 AM: AKs, this obviously took a lot of work and thought. I'm sorry there are some players out there who are quick to criticize without giving the map a chance or giving praise to the hundreds of hours that went into its creation.

Don't let the critics get you down...ignore 'em and be the class squad we all know you folks are.

Please do publish a map with spawn points to keep the intel level equal since you guys created the whole thing. Otherwise, I'm sure you know what reaction players will have the first time the AKs snatch a base with GV action.

Personally, I think it is a tasty looking pizza and I can't wait for the Knights to devour it!! ;)

C'ya up

Crow
Title: Re: Nice job AKs
Post by: AKcurly on June 11, 2002, 07:53:38 AM: Quote
Originally posted by crowMAW

Please do publish a map with spawn points to keep the intel level equal since you guys created the whole thing. Otherwise, I'm sure you know what reaction players will have the first time the AKs snatch a base with GV action.

Heya Crow. I don't know that HTC kept our spawn points. Even if he did, the sheer complexity of the map keeps anyone from memorizing it.

I can tell ya what I did. :) All of the vehicle fields in the outer ring are connected by spawn points. Remember, there is only one airfield up there and it doesn't really come into play.

There is a large collection of vehicle fields in the canyons. Each vehicle field spawns: 1) to the nearest enemy vehicle field and 2) to the nearby friendly airfields.

In the interior, roughly in the middle, there is one airfield which spawns to all airfields directly around it. These are extremely important airfields and there will be hell to pay if you lose one.

Other than that, I included no other spawn points. OTOH, HTC will more than likely modify the spawn point structure ... dunno really. The AKs are just like you guys --- we'll have to wait and see what it looks like. :)

curly
Title: I want a guartnjee Spawn erase
Post by: BGBMAW on June 11, 2002, 06:39:15 PM: Ya what Crow said..I want a copy of the AK's Spawn map..lolol

"Ho Chi "AK" man" trail here we go......... ATTAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like the Line.."Im sure HTC will change SPawn points"..lolol sure..Bu tyou knbow there has got to be some SPanw points that either must be in certain areas..so I REALLY AGREE......GIVE US a SPAWN PONT MAP....OR we start the ____AK cheat SPawn mode thread__....lololo oR the Bishops are band form using GV's..lolol any ways for my third time. I love the map already..Hell I could care less where im flyn....just fill my cannons up ..please

BiGB
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: aknimitz on June 11, 2002, 08:00:00 PM: Sky Viper

Thats a *very* kewl looking map, I like the layout! But what you have to realize is I counted 10 or so airfields for the northern country. Can you imagine 250 players upping from just those 10 airfields? The congestion due to lack of size with our growing arena might make that map an MA problem. *shrug*

I really like the clipboard version anyway, dunno how the terrain itself looks :D

Nim

PS

Thank you to all of you who supporting just the idea of a squad working hard to create a map for the masses. Those of you that criticize before even flying in it - well, you get no thank you :D
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Sky Viper on June 11, 2002, 10:49:15 PM: Quote
Originally posted by aknimitz
Sky Viper

Thats a *very* kewl looking map, I like the layout! But what you have to realize is I counted 10 or so airfields for the northern country. Can you imagine 250 players upping from just those 10 airfields? The congestion due to lack of size with our growing arena might make that map an MA problem. *shrug*

I really like the clipboard version anyway, dunno how the terrain itself looks :D

Nim

Thanks Nim!

I realize it's a bit sparce on base count, but I made it before HTC opened up the max base count. Then updated it just after that change, then I moved...no reply from HTC about criteria (till now)...etc.
So I dusted it off and here I am.

I think it would be cool if we could get a group of folks together and make this thing run!

Viper
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: laz on June 12, 2002, 12:05:05 PM: Sweet Jesus.....
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: laz on June 12, 2002, 12:05:46 PM: Hey.. Anyone else agree that a p38F would look really nice in that sand? :D
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: BenDover on June 12, 2002, 12:54:42 PM: yeah

oh wait, you don't mean in a crater and burning :p
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Don on June 12, 2002, 01:54:24 PM: >>They're using this thread as a forum to air their unhappiness with HTC and perhaps take a whack at us (AKs) on the side. That's cool. Whack away.<<

Thats prolly true for some, however the response I got seemed a tad bit defensive. To observe that the waterways are a bit narrow is legitimate, in turn I got words to the effect that I wasn't looking at the map or realizing the scale of it. Pfft! If ya got narrow waterways on a pizza map, then ya got narrow waterways. The water doesnt seem to be the primary feature of this map, therefore, ships won't or shouldn't figure prominently in actions using this map. No big deal, gameplay will either be great or suck; time will tell.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Don on June 12, 2002, 02:05:04 PM: >>Perhaps that wasn't the point of yer post?<<

No it wasn't but, its not important. I suppose the ships do move fast by comparison, it sure doesnt seem that way at times. :)
The point of my original comments was simply to point out the narrowness of the waterways; it was an observation only. It remains to be seen how surface battles will flesh out when it is first used in the MA. At first blush it looks as if PT Boats would be more useful than a TG. It will be interesting to see the effect on gameplay because of the size. We have argued for larger maps for some time now, well now we have one; lets just see what it'll mean to the players.
I'm especially curious about the reaction form the "realism crowd". Hehe, they will be flying a pizza map and clamoring for more realistic Buff modeling :)
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: CptTrips on June 12, 2002, 02:29:36 PM: >No it wasn't but, its not important. I suppose the ships do move
>fast by comparison, it sure doesnt seem that way at times.

They move at their historical speed as far as I know. No more, no less.

>The point of my original comments was simply to point out the
>narrowness of the waterways;

Waterways is a better description than your original allusion that they were the size and scale of jungle rivers to be found in Vietnam. Sorry if it sounded defensive, but it sure appeared you had the wrong idea about the scale. I don’t know of any river in Vietnam that is 15-20 miles wide from bank to bank. Can you give me the name of that river so I can look it up?

I’ve never called them oceans. I always called them channels. Given the dimensions of the English Channel, I think it is a much more accurate description than jungle river.

>No big deal, gameplay will either be great or suck; time will tell.

True enough. I don’t want to try and change anyone’s opinion. I just want to clear up factual errors and gross misrepresentations. In my opinion you were making a gross misrepresentation concerning the size of the channels. I wanted to clear that up.

In any case, there are always going to be people who will never let mere facts interfere with an opinion they are determined to form.

Regards,
Wab
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: AKIron on June 12, 2002, 03:25:40 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Don
>>They're using this thread as a forum to air their unhappiness with HTC and perhaps take a whack at us (AKs) on the side. That's cool. Whack away.<<

Thats prolly true for some, however the response I got seemed a tad bit defensive. To observe that the waterways are a bit narrow is legitimate, in turn I got words to the effect that I wasn't looking at the map or realizing the scale of it. Pfft! If ya got narrow waterways on a pizza map, then ya got narrow waterways. The water doesnt seem to be the primary feature of this map, therefore, ships won't or shouldn't figure prominently in actions using this map. No big deal, gameplay will either be great or suck; time will tell.

Ya know what, I'm in no popularity contest here and at this point really couldn't care less what you or any other detractor has to say. If ya don't like the map don't fly on it, no sweat here.
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Red Tail 444 on June 24, 2002, 09:54:03 AM: Well, IMO the advantages to this map are the introduction to more high-alt engagements.

I also see more organized strat missions taking place, too, an d I do like the need to resupply manually, the front line bases. This could be fun.

With regards to the drawn out war, maybe if HTC made the incentive a little more attractive fir the reset (100-200), it would galvanize the masses more...

Just a thought...

Gainsie
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Red Tail 444 on June 24, 2002, 10:07:34 AM: Oh., BTW... AKs and HTC. good to see you working to keep the game moving forward.

God knows, I don't have the time to make a map!

Thanks!

Gainsie
Title: First v1.10 zone terrain
Post by: Saintaw on June 24, 2002, 10:46:20 AM: Wow, looks fun, thanks AK's ! :)
Title: Radioactive Terrain?
Post by: marauder on June 25, 2002, 12:32:58 AM: Hmmm.. that "First v1.10 Zone Terrain" kinda reminds me of the
Radioactive symbol: