Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: beet1e on June 01, 2002, 06:32:17 AM
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OK, I realise that it will never happen, and on the face of things, it sounds like a fatuous suggestion. But it's perhaps not as silly as it sounds.
I was reading a post in here recently, and Ripsnort made the point that planes like LA7/N1K needed to be included in the plane set so that beginners would stand a chance. I think this makes good sense, because if the learning curve is made to be too steep, some people will become despondent and leave.
The trouble with the N1K and LA7 presence is that experienced pilots sometimes use them to have the best chance of survival. For others it's like a crutch for those who can't be bothered to learn ACM. I'm not the best ACMer, but I know enough to get by in the energy fighters. One of the best things that ever happened to me over on the dark side was when a guy called Stiglr finally persuaded me to let go of the Spit ix and fly a 190 instead. Much harder to fly, but also much more rewarding when learned. If we allowed the N1K only for those guys on the 2 week trial, then assuming they subscribed to the payment plan, they would be forced to step up to a real man's plane instead of dweebing around in one with training wheels.
I realise that not everyone will appreciate this suggestion. One third will hate it, one third will love it, and one third will be indifferent. But at least that means that two thirds wont hate it. ;)
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Nah, just about everyone with a lick of common sense will hate it.
:D
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The N1K is a decent airplane while the Spit V and Spit IX have the same ridiculous UFO-FM.
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Originally posted by DarkglamJG52
The N1K is a decent airplane while the Spit V and Spit IX have the same ridiculous UFO-FM.
Agree 100%
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One of these days I'm going to get around to flying an entire tour only in a N1K just to see how I do.
Truthfully I way more Spit IXs and La7s than I see N1Ks, but I only pop into the MA occasionally. I have more trouble with them than I do the N1K. With the Shiden Kai, I usually have an option to extend and disengage. With the Spit 9 and La7, breaking off the fight is more problematic.
In general, posts that suggest limiting people's choices aren't well received. You shoulda been here for the wailing when the F4U-1C was perked - and the F4U-1C was everywhere. It racked up more than 20% of the total kills in a tour at least once.
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What are people going to do when more and more and more planes become available to kill them :D :confused: I measure success in an La7 not just by how many kills on an average run, but how well I perform against other La7s
KI 76
KO 35
KB 35
DI 74
I'll call it par, but I enjoy the driving range more than the course anyway; ever smack a bucket of golfballs a couple hundred yards with a 1wood after a hard day's work? Mmm Mmmm. Still workin the slice tho :rolleyes:
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Challenging late war planes is what makes the early war planes attractive to me.
Don't neuter my opponents, please.
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This is without a doubt, the WORST IDEA EVER.
(http://www.matthoffman.cc/bb/comicbookguy.gif)
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<>
So did the aircraft types that wear the "Spit" tag last tour. Imagine its K/D ratio if newbies weren't using it or it wasn't relied upon so heavily in a hopeless vulched base defense. I don't think N1K or Spit should be perked though. It would be interesting if pilot rank played into being a modifier for perk points. Kill an "ace" in an LA7 while flying an 109E and get even more perks, but kill a newbie in an LA7 and get less perks.
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Outlaw the N1k2, and only outlaws will have N1K2s
-Sikboy
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Kill an "ace" in an LA7 while flying an 109E and get even more perks, but kill a newbie in an LA7 and get less perks.
Any movement towards a system that rewards you for killing an ace is a good one. But how do you determine an ace? The ranking system we have now isn't complex enough to give that answer.
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Originally posted by DarkglamJG52
The N1K is a decent airplane while the Spit V and Spit IX have the same ridiculous UFO-FM.
Ridiculous, UFO, in what way? No, on second thoughts with the usual high standards of empirical detail displayed by the above quote, don't go there, what's the point...
BS
Vladd
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Originally posted by Vladd
Ridiculous, UFO, in what way? No, on second thoughts with the usual high standards of empirical detail displayed by the above quote, don't go there, what's the point...
BS
Vladd
No dude, the following planes have UFO flight models:
F4U
F6F
P-38 (except for the dive break :mad: lol)
P-47
P-51
Typh (damn turbo-lazers)
Spitfire
La-7
N1k2
A6M5
The following planes are suspect
C.202
C.205
Ki-61
La5
Mossie
and Yak-9
All other fighters are unjustly undermodeled.
The sooner you accept this, the easier it is to get along here lol
-Sikboy
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Ridiculous, UFO, in what way?
1) 15 G's movements without structural failure
2) Eternal nose up (also in the N1K)
3) Outurn a Zeke (Spit V) :eek:
4) Magical E maintenance
5) One Hispano ping D800=kill
6) Optimist roll-rate 200-300Mph
7) etc, etc, etc...
The N1K is a 747 comparative with the Spit IX. The only advantaje
of N1K is ammo .
Sikboy don't forget the damned pt's and flacks ;)
Long live for the braves Hurricane pt killers!!!!
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Originally posted by Sikboy
No dude, the following planes have UFO flight models:
-snip-
-Sikboy
Think you landed one there, SB.
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what about a new stat, that would appear next to kill ratio, a sort of perk-ratio. So flying a n1k, la7, etc all the time would tend to count less than doing well in a "real" plane.
It would be a ratio of perks given vs perks earned(excluding the end-of-sortie multiplers)
f4u-1 and a n1k2 kill each other 5 times(5 kills each, 5 deaths each)
f4u-1 earns 20 perks, gives 1.25 perks, giving a ratio of 16.0
n1k2 earns 1.25 perks, gives 20, giving a ratio of 0.06
So while both show the same kill ratio, the f4u-1 pilot is shown to be winning against superior opponents.
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How about they limit UBB planewhining access to those in the 2 week free trial? That way the board won't be clogged with jaded veteran plane-snobs whining about the untermenschen tooling around in so-called "UFOs"
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Beetle. Count the number of German fighters sometime. Then count the number of Japanese fighters. Duh. If you want to fly IJA/N your options are VERY limited.
The Nik has been through 3 totally different FM's since beta(all of them the most realistic, no doubt). I have been forced to learn how to fly the thing over and over. This can be said of no other plane in the set.
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Originally posted by DarkglamJG52
1) 15 G's movements without structural failure
[/B]
You must have a better G meter than my planes. I only see 9 Gs max on mine. Does yours rap around when it goes past the 9?
2) Eternal nose up (also in the N1K)
[/b]
Bzzzt. Wrong. In fact, I find Spits to be the easiest of all planes to rope regardless of what I'm flying.
3) Outurn a Zeke (Spit V)
[/B]
Only if the Zeke pilot sucks. Hm. Do you fly Zekes?
4) Magical E maintenance
[/B]
LOL
5) One Hispano ping D800=kill
[/b]
LOL
6) Optimist roll-rate 200-300Mph
[/b]
LOL
7) etc, etc, etc...
[/B]
No, don't give me "etc etc etc." I want you to specifically delineate every factual problem with Spits as modelled in AH.
The N1K is a 747 comparative with the Spit IX. The only advantaje of N1K is ammo .
[/b]
LOL
Your new handle shall henceforth be Hyperbole Boy.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Been forced to learn to fly the nik over and over ??????????
ur serious
LOL
:p
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got 80 kills and over 30 deaths in the la7 this tour.
95% of time I used the la7, I took off from a vulched base, and that says a little about how good it is.
I could never done that with a spit14 even without tag.
so who the fek said the fu4 was a ufo ? maybe for 2 turns then its a brick.
airguard
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You girls talking about flying 1944 "real men's" planes in the arena really crack me up.
Planes just far enough down the popularity scale to scream about how hard you have it and the skill that's required, yet still far up enough in ability to kill everything in the arena.
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dang it Lev, you got to him before I did! Answered him better than I could have to!
Bah, Spit is a dweeb plane. La-7, N1K2, blah blah, wah wah wah.
Pee-51 is a dweeb plane. All they do (13th TAS not included, they'll fight) is run. Today I saw 3 P-51s. They came in made ONE pass on the field to vulch, not take out ack, not hit a hangar, not hit anything, and then ran straight out about 5-7 miles, turned around and came back again. :p
109G-10 is a dweeb plane. Climbs like a scalded monkey up a tree. Has big ol' tater lobber for a gun. Hblair only needs to LOOK at you and your wing falls off. I doubt he even pulls the f'in trigger. ;)
Dang P-47D-30! frickin' 8 0.50 cals!!! frickin' 2500 lbs of bombs! rockets! you can't get more JABO dweeby than that... ;) and they way that thing dives??? omg! 650mph and smooth as a baby's butt!
I don't care what anyone says, what they call me or whatever. I'm flying the Spitfire V. Every sortie that doesn't involve me having to race 25-40 miles to help out in a defense. If you want me to fly "real men" planes, uhmm, too bad. I pay the $15/mo, I fly what I want, where I want, and how I want in the MA. My only regret about flying the Spit V??? It's I don't get to wing with Leviathn or SirLoin very much in them. :D
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Originally posted by Nifty
My only regret about flying the Spit V??? It's I don't get to wing with Leviathn or SirLoin very much in them. :D
It's not my fault you're always in an La7 when I'm around you. :D
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
It's not my fault you're always in an La7 when I'm around you. :D
-- Todd/Leviathn
hehe, well, don't be around when we have to go 30-40 miles to attack or defend! ;) I hate long flights! takes me long enough to kill someone, I don't need to spend 20 mins getting there! Tho for perk reasons, I'm using the La-5 this tour for that purpose. Does the job -almost- as well.
Actually, the last time we were in the same area I was in the Spit V. I was looking forward to fighting in the fur with you, but saw Sachs with a bandit on him, so I dropped in and cleared him. You got about 3 kills before you were ganged. I felt bad. ;)
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OH MAN!
I may have to revive "Wit of the Week" again.
Admittedly I'm just in from Day 1 of our airshow and I'm tired, sunburned and full of frozen Margaritas (one of our group is the ICEE distributor here.. man, those machines can make a mean Marg!) but I laughed my butt off at these two:
Funkedup: "How about they limit UBB planewhining access to those in the 2 week free trial? That way the board won't be clogged with jaded veteran plane-snobs whining about the untermenschen tooling around in so-called "UFOs"."
Fatty: "You girls talking about flying 1944 "real men's" planes in the arena really crack me up.
Planes just far enough down the popularity scale to scream about how hard you have it and the skill that's required, yet still far up enough in ability to kill everything in the arena."
Both of them true, both of them funny.....
... and Nifty, thanks for noticing! Too often we get lumped in with... well....... others. :D
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
Been forced to learn to fly the nik over and over ??????????
ur serious
LOL
:p
cc...pretty damned funny. Almost as funny as thinking the P38 is a hard plane to fly and get kills in. :p
SOB
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MUHAHAHAHAHA
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<>
I don't know. I was actually thinking more based on a difference in fighter rank modifier. As it is now, a perk score of 3 would be moidified downward to say 2 or 2.5 if some pilot who is ranked #50 shoots me down who is ranked #500. (Same for pilot ranked #600 who shoots someone down ranked #900.) But my perk score would increase to say 4 or 4.5 or some variable amount if I shoot down a pilot ranked #50, #100, or #400. A weighted modifier based on difference in rank. This would also allow the lesser pilots a more reasonable chance at flying perked fighters and the aces it wouldn't be so easy for them (i'm sure that'll illicit screams!)
I hadn't really put much thought into it though, I'm sure no one will like it and I'm sure there are holes in it and I'm not going to put effort into working out a system, but just present the idea.
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Originally posted by DarkglamJG52
Ridiculous, UFO, in what way?
1) 15 G's movements without structural failure
2) Eternal nose up (also in the N1K)
3) Outurn a Zeke (Spit V) :eek:
4) Magical E maintenance
5) One Hispano ping D800=kill
6) Optimist roll-rate 200-300Mph
7) etc, etc, etc...
The N1K is a 747 comparative with the Spit IX. The only advantaje
of N1K is ammo .
Sikboy don't forget the damned pt's and flacks ;)
Long live for the braves Hurricane pt killers!!!!
You got anymore of what you're smoking? Spit V isn't all that fast and can be out run by planes that the Spit IX can easily catch. Only thing the Spit V does better than the Spit IX is turn. I think maybe because they carry the same weapons loadout this somehow makes them equal, but in reality and in this game they aren't. Heck, I can out run a Spit V in my P-38L by just diving if I get in trouble.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by Innominate
what about a new stat, that would appear next to kill ratio, a sort of perk-ratio. So flying a n1k, la7, etc all the time would tend to count less than doing well in a "real" plane.
It would be a ratio of perks given vs perks earned(excluding the end-of-sortie multiplers)
f4u-1 and a n1k2 kill each other 5 times(5 kills each, 5 deaths each)
f4u-1 earns 20 perks, gives 1.25 perks, giving a ratio of 16.0
n1k2 earns 1.25 perks, gives 20, giving a ratio of 0.06
So while both show the same kill ratio, the f4u-1 pilot is shown to be winning against superior opponents.
Why penalize someone for flying a plane they like? Is it their fault that apparently quite a few people here don't know how to fight against these planes? Why limit what others can fly to make up for your shortcomings? If you'd take some time to practice and maybe learn some tactics, you won't be worrying about those that fly these (laughing) "Uber" planes (more laughter).
Maybe this is just a byproduct of not having a real formal training program in AH.
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
Ack-Ack
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders
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Originally posted by akak
Why penalize someone for flying a plane they like? Is it their fault that apparently quite a few people here don't know how to fight against these planes? Why limit what others can fly to make up for your shortcomings?
It doesn't penalize anyone. It has absolutly no tangible effect, doesn't even need to be part of the ranking system. If you fly one of the "better" planes, it would show, and if you fly one of the "lesser" planes it would show. It places absolutly no restrictions on anyone, only shows people what you spend your time flying.
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LA7 and N1K are, for the most part, furball planes.
I honestly think both planes are really for the more experienced
players in the game. New folks are just fresh meat in em.
Spits are far better choices for dweebs.
And remember, its just a game
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Why should newbies always be given the easy way?
People will learn :)
First flights in WB was in Ki84, which of I soon moved to 109s (Franz & G6R6 favorites of 109 family), P47s and my favorite back then, the P40.
First ever WB plane that I flew, was FW190A8, which I just loved :> (well, obviously all that counted up in AH many years after ;))
Learning part in today's games is already easy enough when compares to the past.
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I don't understand why everybody whines about niks and nobady about the Spit, the real ufo in this arena!
It turns in a dime, never cpompress,never stalls and its turbo laser Hispanos can destroy a target at d800.
Am I wrong?????
Lucchini
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Originally posted by Lucchini
Am I wrong?????
Yes, you are wrong.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Lucchini
Am I wrong?????
No, you aren't.
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I have doubt about rudder actions at Spit, N1K2, A6M, B-17G, from V1.04.
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They can do the unbelievable maneuvers by rudder.
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Originally posted by Innominate
It doesn't penalize anyone. It has absolutly no tangible effect, doesn't even need to be part of the ranking system. If you fly one of the "better" planes, it would show, and if you fly one of the "lesser" planes it would show. It places absolutly no restrictions on anyone, only shows people what you spend your time flying.
That's how the perk points work now. You get more perk points if you fly one of the "lesser" planes and shoot down one of the "better" planes.
Ack-Ack
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I have doubts about elevator actions with SpitV and IX since V1.04, specially at hi speeds.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
No, you aren't.
oh you both are, just probably don't realize it.
Ack-Ack
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You got anymore of what you're smoking? Spit V isn't all that fast and can be out run by planes that the Spit IX can easily catch. Only thing the Spit V does better than the Spit IX is turn. I think maybe because they carry the same weapons loadout this somehow makes them equal, but in reality and in this game they aren't. Heck, I can out run a Spit V in my P-38L by just diving if I get in trouble.
I don't talk about the speed of the Spit V.
Todd/Leviathn
LOL
LOL
Bzzzt. Wrong. In fact, I find Spits to be the easiest of all planes to rope regardless of what I'm flying
Sure. Spit dweeb procedure: Take off, shot d 3.0, nose up and shot against plane at 5k alt near field. The end of the history is very well-known, the 109 or P51 or P38 or 190 or F4 or P47 pilot dive and kill the moron...and of course says "other dweeb killed".
Am I wrong?????
No
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Originally posted by akak
That's how the perk points work now. You get more perk points if you fly one of the "lesser" planes and shoot down one of the "better" planes.
Ack-Ack
It's a stat that would sit next to kill ratio
Not a modification to the perk system
Just happens that it takes advantage of the ENY values also
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DarkJG, in the scenario you describe, I would take the novice spit driver as a teammate in a heartbeat over the 109 or P51 or P38 or 190 or F4 or P47 who would be telling me constantly how much harder it is for him to kill a plane that goes half as fast as he does.
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For those of you blinded enough to think that raw top speed is a key factor to get kills, better put E retention into your formula, and voila: the spits are anything but slow, unless you mean a straight run at sea level.
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Hehe...
...here we go again. If you have the faster plane, you leave. Anyone flying a 190 oughta shut the he** up about Spits, because they just don't matter. Even the A5 can get clean away from anything but a Spit 14 (which it will outturn).
*If you slow down enough to get caught by superior acceleration, it's your fault.
*If you get suckered into a turnfight with a superior turnfighter, it's your own fault.
*If you lone wolf and you get gang-banged, it's your own fault.
And anyway, what is the point of the whole "ubermensch in unterplane" mentality anyway? If you are trying to prove you are a natural born killer in any plane, and accept the challenge of flying a "lesser" plane, then do so- but shut up about the other, "uber", planes. After all, the whole point of announcing to the AH world "I wouldn't be caught dead in a Nikki/La7/Spit" is posturing, and if you're gonna talk the talk, you'd better walk the walk. Give Fatty credit, you never hear him crying on the open channel or BBS about those "bad, bad uberplanes".
Some people turn themselves into effective killers by using talent and practice; others attempt to do so by removing the competition from the playing field before the game starts.
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Originally posted by DarkglamJG52
I don't talk about the speed of the Spit V.
[/B]
You should. It's convenient that you ignore its greatest single shortcoming.
LOL
LOL
[/B]
I'm laughing at you, not with you.
Sure. Spit dweeb procedure: Take off, shot d 3.0, nose up and shot against plane at 5k alt near field. The end of the history is very well-known, the 109 or P51 or P38 or 190 or F4 or P47 pilot dive and kill the moron...and of course says "other dweeb killed".
[/B]
Dweebs are dweebs. We're talking about planes here, not pilots. Did you forget that in your self-delusion? The fact is that the Spit has a very predictable stall, and this (like many other planes) makes it extremely easy to rope if you have sufficient SA and energy for it. I consider Spits to be easy money.
Unless, of course, you're suggesting that all Spit pilots are dweebs who do the things you described above. Is that what you meant, Hyperbole Boy?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
For those of you blinded enough to think that raw top speed is a key factor to get kills, better put E retention into your formula, and voila: the spits are anything but slow, unless you mean a straight run at sea level.
I'll take a 109G10 or La7 over a Spit any day if we're talking pure 1v1. Both of those outaccelerate, outclimb, and are faster than the Spits while still maintaining a reasonable level of manueverability.
You're yet again overstating your case.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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You and your particular wisdom again TOD, go 25k and then duel 1vs1 SpitV vs La7, repeat the experiment at 20k vs SpitIX. And you forgot the hispanos and the impact in the way distances affect the killing ability of any spit.
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Kinda thought anothe "perk the N1K2" thread would pop up after so many said "enough with the perk the La-7 threads" in the last La-7 whine.
AKDejaVu
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I'm laughing at you, not with you.
The arrogance is a very bad defect Old Jedi Hamburger. You would know it.
Unless, of course, you're suggesting that all Spit pilots are dweebs who do the things you described above. Is that what you meant, Hyperbole Boy?
Negative, some pilots fly the spit very very well, with brain and using well the UFO technology.
Fatty. Another scenario: a B&Z plane like F4, P51, 190 run to own field because low fuel,ammo or simply fear, happy spit follow him 20 milles without look behind until hi friend of first plane dives and kill the spit. None evasive action. I saw this many times.
But, the matter is another: that can make a Niki that doesn't make a spit ? ANYTHING why do people cry about the Niki?. maybe because it is a japanese airplane? and for many people here japan/german planes, cars, girls, trees, drinks, games, TV's etc etc are worse (at past, present, future).
Greetings.
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Originally posted by DarkglamJG52
that can make a Niki that doesn't make a spit ?ANYTHING.
Sorry Dark, the english spokers will not be able to understad ;)
"What can do the Nikki that cant the Spit? NOTHING."
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What I think is that the people who are obsessed with the Spit as UFO need to do is go delve into Spitfire history and performance they way they have delved into 109/190 history and performance.
Right now all they seem to see the Spit as is an easymode crutch, with lots of gamey modifications, for newbies or wimps to use instead of "serious" aircraft like the 109/190.
If they delved into Spitfire history and performance they would find some of the following:
- Spitfires retained remarkable lightness on the elevator controls at high speeds. The Spitfire Mk XIV was notably heavier, but still quite controlable.
- The AH Spitfire Mk V, IX and XIV roll rates at 200-300mph very, very closely match the NACA 50lb stickforce roll rate tests that have been posted. Above 300mph Spits roll faster than the NACA chart shows (as do 190s), but that makes sense if you consider that the Spit's roll rate at 200-300mph is probably with 50lbs providing maximum aileron deflection, but above 300mph the 50lbs is not enough whereas in reality a Spitfire pilot has room to apply 60lbs of preasure to the stick which would grant better roll rates at speeds where the ailerons were not fully deflected by the 50lbs of force in the NACA test. This would apply to the 190 as well, but not the 109 in which the pilot can only apply 40lbs of stick force.
- The American tests on the Spitfire Mk V revealed an interesting feature of the Spitfire, that it was flyable when it was half stalled. They Americans had problems with other aspects of the Spitfire, but its controlability in a half stall was unique. They did not like its balance between the ailerons and elevators. They found the elevators to be too sensitive.
There are many other things they would find too. They would find that the Spitfire was every bit as remarkable a machine as the Bf109 and Fw190 series.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
You and your particular wisdom again TOD, go 25k and then duel 1vs1 SpitV vs La7, repeat the experiment at 20k vs SpitIX. And you forgot the hispanos and the impact in the way distances affect the killing ability of any spit.
My particular wisdom again? Here you go being extremely selective in your scenario and then using that to generalize. If I were at 25k, I'd happily take a P-51, P-38, or Ta152 against the Spit V.
The fact is that Spits (with the exception of the XIV of course) are very avoidable, and at any altitude there are things that will be faster, climb better, and accelerate better. And if you don't like being shot by the Spit's guns, don't do stupid things that will get you shot. Bitter?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by DarkglamJG52
The arrogance is a very bad defect Old Jedi Hamburger. You would know it.
[/B]
It's not arrogance to laugh at relentless ignorance. In a way, I hope it'll be therapeutic for you.
Negative, some pilots fly the spit very very well, with brain and using well the UFO technology.
[/B]
I'm still waiting for some proof of this UFO technology beyond your anecdotal evidence. Why not post some films for all of us to see them doing crazy things that no plane should do? Surely you have plenty of those lying around given the abundance of Spits.
why do people cry about the Niki?. maybe because it is a japanese airplane? and for many people here japan/german planes, cars, girls, trees, drinks, games, TV's etc etc are worse (at past, present, future).
[/b]
Now I know you're ignorant. I think the N1K is an excellent plane with nothing approaching UFO qualities, and those who whine about it are way off base. However, to argue that their whining stems from some sort of latent racism is crazy. Good grief.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Darkflem, I have to agree with you...Leviathn sucks
Drex
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Originally posted by Drex
Darkflem, I have to agree with you...Leviathn sucks
Shouldn't that read "Leviathn drexes?"
-- Todd/Leviathn
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My fault...
Leviathn really Drexes bad
Drex
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Originally posted by Drex
Leviathn really Drexes bad
It's indeed possible that I drex badly, but I undoubtedly drex less than that drexy Drex.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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So...
"I pulled a Leviathan, and Drex even worse."
would be proper terminology? :D
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Fatty. Another scenario: a B&Z plane like F4, P51, 190 run to own field because low fuel,ammo or simply fear, happy spit follow him 20 milles without look behind until hi friend of first plane dives and kill the spit. None evasive action. I saw this many times.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there, but it's too amusing to leave unquoted. A while back I jokingly exaggerated that some people were so uptight they got into a wad not only about dying, but about how other people die. I see it's no longer an exaggeration.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
For those of you blinded enough to think that raw top speed is a key factor to get kills, better put E retention into your formula, and voila: the spits are anything but slow, unless you mean a straight run at sea level.
P-38L has better E retention than the Seafire, Spitfire I and Spitfire V in the vertical plane. What's the best way to kill a Spitfire V? Take the fight vertical.
Ack-Ack
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Kieran... the 190A5 can't out-turn the Spit XIV. No way, no how. It can get away from the other ones though.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Shouldn't that read "Leviathn drexes?"
-- Todd/Leviathn
I think he means that your full of Mandoble
-Sikboy
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akak, agree with u about P38L vs Spit in the vertical zoom, and what means that?
DMF you simply cant avoid spits when your mates are in danger surrounded by dozen of dweebs, so, the trick of using "faster" planes is relative to the situation, and the situation is a MA overpopulated by spits dweebs.
Karnak, I dont know your sources, but spits were not exactly very "controllable" at hi speeds and the actual roll rate at low speeds is more than enough to follow any 190 (impossible in RL).
Kieran, SpitXIV is much faster than 190A5 at most alts, and marginally faster at SL.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
DMF you simply cant avoid spits when your mates are in danger surrounded by dozen of dweebs, so, the trick of using "faster" planes is relative to the situation, and the situation is a MA overpopulated by spits dweebs.
This discussion was about a single plane vs. a single other plane. It's the Spitfire's fault that your SA is poor enough that you allow yourself to be caught in situations where Spits can run you down despite your faster, more survivable plane.
The fact is that, ceteris parebis, other planes quickly dominate the fight against Spitfires at any altitude. Spits excel by frustrating opponents and forcing them into their own fight, but ultimately it's uncommon for them to control the fight.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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MA is not 1 vs 1. Country play is not lone wolf game. Your vision of MA is, as usual, erroneous. There are lot of jabos, buffs, goons and whatever you want that need to be deffended against spit dweebs, you cant simply keep fast and hi "dominating" the fight.
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Uhhhh, Mandoble? That's what I said, the A5 can outrun all but the Spit 14. I still contend the A5 can outturn the 14.
Here's what I'll never understand for certain- Here you are, a guy that enjoys a k/d advantage over the Spit of 7/1, and you are trying to represent the Spitfire, any mark of it mind you, is somehow uber or impossible to combat. Now there are only two possible reasons for your fanatical hatred of this plane:
1. This is your way of saying, "Hey, look at me! Despite the Spitfire being the bestest plane of AH, and totally unrealistically modeled, I still manage a superior k/d against it, making me one of the bestest pilots in AH", or;
2. You really are into your Luftwaffe personna and cannot allow anything to challenge your dream Aryan historical superiority.
I know you throw the old kill-per-time smoke screen up there when challenged, but the fact is the plane is not challenge for you (or anyone else) to kill, therefore it is not an uberplane. It doesn't manage a k/d ratio as well as any of the Fw's. It is numerous, but it isn't overly dangerous in average hands, and is as dangerous in an expert's hands as is any other armed fighter in the game. In short, your incessant whining about it is both ridiculous and outlandish at the same time.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
MA is not 1 vs 1. Country play is not lone wolf game. Your vision of MA is, as usual, erroneous. There are lot of jabos, buffs, goons and whatever you want that need to be deffended against spit dweebs, you cant simply keep fast and hi "dominating" the fight.
Let me repeat this slowly for you so it sinks in.
THIS. IS. NOT. ABOUT. THE. MAIN. ARENA.
Get any gaggle of ponderously slow planes in one area and you'll have problems, be they Spits, 202s, or even TBMs. The other night, I witnessed a massive crowd of IL-2s killing everything in sight, overwhelming people with sheer numbers. What you're talking about is a gameplay issue; it is not a flight modelling issue.
When discussing flight models, I refer specifically to how one plane matches up with another ceteris parebis... all other things being equal (alt, fuel load, speed, pilot skill level, etc). The fact is that the Spit is not as survivable as many planes, and there are others that simply dominate it at various altitudes.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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MANDOBLE,
Read up on Spitfires like you have on 190s. Become as knowlegable and gain an appriciation of the Spitfire as well. Right now you quite frankly don't know what you're talking about.
Point the first: The AH Spitfire and 190 both match the NACA roll tests at 200-300mph. Below that they both roll slower thanthe test and above that they both roll faster than the test with the Spitfire doing so by a slightly greater margin.
Point the second: Spitfires suffered from aileron stiffness at high speeds, and some (not all) suffered from aileron reversal at very high speeds. All Spitfires remained remarkably light on the elevator controls well past the point where most contemporary fighters were suffering from elevator stiffness. This is not a guess, or wishful thinking, on my part. It is simply fact.
Until you learn about the aircraft you will simply be spouting hyperbole and talking about it as though it is a mythological demon. Very little of what you state has anything to do with reality, or AH's flight models.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Agree 100%
There's a surprise...
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Just a quick question for Mandoble:
Why do you whine about the Spits so much?
I checked your stats and you are 19:3 against the spit 9, if it such a UFO why do you kill them so often?
Maybe you are just trying to get them neutered so the are even easier to kill?
IMO the spits are easy meat, leave em as they are. Most often flown by a newbie, slow, good turner but that doesn't help them when you hit them at 450mph. :D
Back on topic: Restricting the N1k to the 2 weekers is definitely the all time dumbest idea I have seen on this board.
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Originally posted by Blue Mako
Just a quick question for Mandoble:
Why do you whine about the Spits so much?
I checked your stats and you are 19:3 against the spit 9, if it such a UFO why do you kill them so often?
Maybe you are just trying to get them neutered so the are even easier to kill?
IMO the spits are easy meat, leave em as they are. Most often flown by a newbie, slow, good turner but that doesn't help them when you hit them at 450mph. :D
Back on topic: Restricting the N1k to the 2 weekers is definitely the all time dumbest idea I have seen on this board.
Most likely the same reason I squeak about them but still have a good record against them. It's just me but,... I get so disgusted at the numbers of Spits I see I can't resist the temptation to do my part to try and make Spits less desireable. Same for La7s and N1k'S, but I agree... limiting any plane to the free trial is kinda not so smart.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
akak, agree with u about P38L vs Spit in the vertical zoom, and what means that?
Just proves that unlike your claim, the Spitfire V flight model isn't the same as the Spitfire IX. If it was, then I'd never be able to take the fight vertical.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Sorry Dark, the english spokers will not be able to understad ;)
"What can do the Nikki that cant the Spit? NOTHING."
Yes, is NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING, Nocilla Nocilla Nocilla. Mandoble, mi ingles es muy muy "rubbish". Aunque casi mejor, porque si pudiera decirles todo lo que pienso seguro que me echan del foro.
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Originally posted by DarkglamJG52
Yes, is NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING, Nocilla Nocilla Nocilla. Mandoble, mi ingles es muy muy "rubbish". Aunque casi mejor, porque si pudiera decirles todo lo que pienso seguro que me echan del foro.
It's a bad idea to let Mandoble speak for you, even if you think you agree with him. Trust me.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Blue Mako
Maybe you are just trying to get them neutered so the are even easier to kill?
Just the opposite. A perked spit would be mostly flown by good pilots, it would become a much more formidable opponent this way but, at least, the arena would be cleaned of the spit dweeb-sprayer plague. A well flown spit is almost as dangerous as a La7 or Yak9U, SpitXIV is actually far more dangerous than a La7.
DMF, all this thread is about MA, not about some other fantasy scenary.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Just the opposite. A perked spit would be mostly flown by good pilots, it would become a much more formidable opponent this way but, at least, the arena would be cleaned of the spit dweeb-sprayer plague. A well flown spit is almost as dangerous as a La7 or Yak9U, SpitXIV is actually far more dangerous than a La7.
[/b]
The spit dweeb-sprayer plague? It's only a plague to you, it seems. The rest of the peopel fly whatever they like, including the Spitfire pilots, and they enjoy themselves. It seems you're also in favor of perking the La7 and Yak-9U as well. Wow, where does it ever end?
I agree about the Spit XIV however. It is deservedly perked.
DMF, all this thread is about MA, not about some other fantasy scenary.
No, some of this thread is about the MA. Specific discussions about flight models have nothing to do with the MA itself. Or at least they shouldn't, though you continue to insist erroneously to the contrary.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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DMF, 2 + 2 = 4, you may continue arguing if you wish forever about being that also questionable.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
DMF, 2 + 2 = 4, you may continue arguing if you wish forever about being that also questionable.
It's obvious you have nothing to contribute to this thread any longer if this is all you can offer. Typical.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Steven
Kill an "ace" in an LA7 while flying an 109E and get even more perks, but kill a newbie in an LA7 and get less perks.
Excelent idea.
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Originally posted by Kieran
1. This is your way of saying, "Hey, look at me! Despite the Spitfire being the bestest plane of AH, and totally unrealistically modeled, I still manage a superior k/d against it, making me one of the bestest pilots in AH", or;
i'm 26/5 vs all fw marks, ergo *I'm* the bestest pilot in AH since i didn't kill any of 'em by vulching, unlike some FWeenies I could name.
:D
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Just the opposite. A perked spit would be mostly flown by good pilots, it would become a much more formidable opponent this way but, at least, the arena would be cleaned of the spit dweeb-sprayer plague. A well flown spit is almost as dangerous as a La7 or Yak9U, SpitXIV is actually far more dangerous than a La7.
DMF, all this thread is about MA, not about some other fantasy scenary.
i have enough perkies to keep me in spit14's for quite a while, but i still don't fly it much... hardly at all, really.
spit's are NOT worth perking. and this coming from one who has flown a lot of spits in his time in AH but has moved on to a better plane - the pony.
:D
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quote:
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Originally posted by Steven
Kill an "ace" in an LA7 while flying an 109E and get even more perks, but kill a newbie in an LA7 and get less perks.
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Originally posted by AndyH
Excelent idea.
"ace" is that like some real skilled vulcher/cherrypicker/hordemonkey??
:confused:
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I think threads like this should be perked.
First thing I think when I see a Spit, N1k1, la, and yak.... ah good another DWEEB to add to my kill list!
And then I kill them to prove it.
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For those of you unfamiliar with Mandoble, here is a brief summation of his activity on these forums .
1. Planes that don't have black crosses on their wings are overmodeled planes that should either be perked or neutered and are flown by pilots of low skill .
2. Planes with Iron crosses on their wings are undermodeled planes with porked FM's that are very difficult to fly and are flown by talented pilots of the game .
3. Anyone who doesn't agree with his assertion of the aforementioned must prove him wrong, but be advised he has never conceded to reason thus far .
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Mandoble's argument fluxuates between "there are too many Spits" to "They are impossible to beat" to "Their guns are too powerful" to "I only want experts in them", despite the fact that no stats can be produced, or any credible information for that matter, to back any of his claims. It's just silly someone so successful against them would argue so ardently- especially since the plane he chooses to fly is superior in performance and in fact is a later model than three of the Spitfires he wants to perk. There is no historical or gameplay reasoning for perking Spits (come on, perk the Spit I?) and not perking every Fw right along with them.
For this reason, I have developed a new "Mandoble Rating System". It works like this...
At the end of the tour, every plane is stacked against the Fw. The plane that shot it down the least is perked 1 point, the next 2, and so on until all planes are ranked according to their lethality. This will ensure Mandoble's fantasy superiority arena does pop into being, and the spirit of Kurt Tank will smile upon AH.
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Originally posted by Kieran
especially since the plane he chooses to fly is superior in performance and in fact is a later model than three of the Spitfires he wants to perk.
You have a very particular vission of 190A5.
In the other hand, my point of view doesn't fluctuate, and has no relation with the planes being able to kill my 190 (the entire planeset is more than able of that). The main argument key is numbers, usage, overusage. Then, the "why these numbers", and that is performance (guns included).
Why people fly spit massively? Cause it is easy-mode? 205, 202, 109F, Zeke, Ki61, F6F are as easy or easier. Then why? Pure performance. It seems that for newbies, turning, climbing, diving and firing performances are more important than pure top speed.
Performance -> Overusage -> Not plane-rich arena -> boring -> thinking about limiting overused plane usage -> perk system.
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So all those plane are easy mode. But the Spit outperforms them. Thats interesting.
I recall in another sim that Spits were all over the damn place, to such an extent that they made "Spit Factories" that you could bomb to prevent your enemy from flying them. The spit is both an easy plane to fly successfully, and it is one of the most popular planes of the war (I'm talking about outside of the flightsim community). It shouldn't be surprizing that they are so popular in the game. I don't see how having a bunch of spits flying around makes gameplay boring for you. :confused: I think you're just a malcontent
-Sikboy
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
I think threads like this should be perked.
First thing I think when I see a Spit, N1k1, la, and yak.... ah good another DWEEB to add to my kill list!
And then I kill them to prove it.
:D
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Originally posted by Kieran
Mandoble's argument fluxuates between "there are too many Spits" to "They are impossible to beat" to "Their guns are too powerful" to "I only want experts in them", despite the fact that no stats can be produced, or any credible information for that matter, to back any of his claims. It's just silly someone so successful against them would argue so ardently- especially since the plane he chooses to fly is superior in performance and in fact is a later model than three of the Spitfires he wants to perk. There is no historical or gameplay reasoning for perking Spits (come on, perk the Spit I?) and not perking every Fw right along with them.
For this reason, I have developed a new "Mandoble Rating System". It works like this...
At the end of the tour, every plane is stacked against the Fw. The plane that shot it down the least is perked 1 point, the next 2, and so on until all planes are ranked according to their lethality. This will ensure Mandoble's fantasy superiority arena does pop into being, and the spirit of Kurt Tank will smile upon AH.
Where'd he say they were impossible to beat?
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Tumor, Kieran post doesnt deserve any kind of intelligent reply.
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Sorry, I inferred that from all the commentary about its otherworldly fm, bazooka guns, etc. When you read his comments, you get the impression that once confronted by a Spit you are as good as dead.
He's back to the numbers argument again- overuse. Yesterday it was about how it was difficult to operate in an environment that contained Spits.
C'mon, give my ranking system (MRS) a chance. Perk according to the kills recorded against the Fw's. You know that is what he wants.
Mandoble-
BTW, your stated ride of choice was the 190D9, from which you stated you stopped flying because "it couldn't compete against the Spit in terms of kill/time".... oh, wait a minute, a new thought comes clear... this isn't about the number of Spitfires at all, is it? This is about getting a high rank in the game, and you feel disadvantaged by your perceived lack of ability to kill fast enough in a D9 to compete with someone in a Spitfire, despite the fact you can kill virtually any Spitfire flown 1 vs 1 against you? Why didn't you say it was about score all along, it would have saved so much time and effort. This is why I could never understand your hatred of the Spit, I just fly to kill stuff. ;)
So this brings a new variable into the formula; I want to fly only one type of plane, but I want to guarantee I will be successful enough in it to be ranked high. Hmm, seems the ol' "MRS" will work.
And yes, I still like the 190A5 over the Spit IX, and consider the A5 to be equal or better at low alt.
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Tumor, Kieran post doesnt deserve any kind of intelligent reply.
Based on your arguments posted thus far, there is very little danger of that happening. ;)
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Mandoble, you are confused.
No one is arguing with you because you might be right, but because you are completely wrong.
It's the same ol' tired argument, and everyone who has been here for a while knows exactly what's coming from you when it's about La7s or N1K2s or SpitIXs or SpitVs (simply shaking my head at the second two).
It's always something to do with inferior (in your opinion) pilots in uber planes while you and your poor LuftWannabes are forced to fly your undermodelled super-crappy German-made-superior-in-the-real-world-because-it's-German-and-looks-super-cool planes.
I'd venture a guess here and say it isn't the D9 that's crappy in relation to the Spitfires, but perhaps the one piloting the D9.
-SW
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......parts of this thread remind me of the movie Rainman.
I can almost hear Mandoble say "Time for Judge Wapner!"
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I'm sorry, I just don't get it. I will never again suggest others fly what I fly nor in the manner I fly. I learned to adjust my way of thinking if I was gettin rattled. Yes, I agree their are alot of N1k's and spit's. I just changed my target selection a little and been having a blast.
As for Mandoble, if those spits wouldn't move out of his way when he's vulchin' the toejam out of em, he wouldn't be so upset about it, lol.
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No AKSWulfe, I'm not confused. I would be as bored killing spits in a 190A5 as in a P51, D9 or whatever.
Kieran, if you think I'm arguing about spits cause I have ANY kind of problem killing them, check stats since tour 1. If you think I'm arguing about spits cause I've been killed by them, repeat the process and check stats. As an example, the past tour: 127 spit kills (out of 687), 12 deaths, that is 1 of every 5 of total kills. Tour 26, 99 spit kills out of 380, almost 1 of every 4 kills. Tour 25, 97 out of 505 kills, 1 of every 5 (and we have 62 plane/vehicle types to kill).
Based on your childist view of my concerns, I should be asking for the Ki61, P38, C205 or P51 to be perked and not the spit. This is not a matter of K/D, this is a matter of total kills per tour, when you see your stats and realize most of your time has been used pursuing spits.
I would like to see the comments here in the case Las alone cover 30% of plane usage.
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Same old tired complaint I've seen since 1996 when I started . "The arena is full of spits and I'm tired of tired of seeing them ." If it wasn't spits it would be something else, in big pork it was ki84s. If you don't like seeing one model of plane making up 20% of the plane types being flown at any given time of day you have two choices .
1 Accept it and get over it becuase it's never going to change .
2 Find another genre of online game to play .
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
It's not arrogance to laugh at relentless ignorance. In a way, I hope it'll be therapeutic for you.
-- Todd/Leviathn [/B]
You believe yourself the erudite of this BBS. You seem as some catholic priests, they are always the most clever.
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Now I know you're ignorant. I think the N1K is an excellent plane with nothing approaching UFO qualities, and those who whine about it are way off base. However, to argue that their whining stems from some sort of latent racism is crazy. Good grief.
-- Todd/Leviathn [/B]
...and more than the same thing Old Jedi, you insult only, never arguments.
I think the N1K is an excellent plane with nothing approaching UFO qualities, and those who whine about it are way off base.
Maybe you (and other spit addicts) should have written this before, I don't start the thread whining about Spit V/IX, I only responded with some comparisons Spit-Niki for the N1K-UFO whiners.
Leviathn, your insults bored me, I won't answer more. You can choice appropriate insult for you here (http://appropriate insult for you )
A comment for all: I am for sure Pyro goes to ignore spit, N1k, La 7, etc whines. We lost our time.
My regards
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Based on your lack of understanding of the English language, let me clarify-
Your disdain of the Spits makes no sense to me primarily because you are so successful against them. I could see the point if they were unbalancing from the standpoint of being untouchable. Fact is, they aren't.
So, what's left? Boredom? Possibly, but so many of your arguments are not based on the boredom of seeing them, rather the unfair advantages you perceive in them. Sorry, those are two separate issues. If you then argue there are so many of them because they have an unfair advantage, then how are you so successful against them?
...oh, what AKSWulfe said. ;)
Now you are not content with calling for the Spit to be perked. Now it is also Yaks, La7s, and Nikkis. You have commented on how near perkable the F6F is. You have made comments regarding the P51. But... where do we hear comments about how good the Fw's are? I think all of the above listed planes are great, including the Fw's, and I believe they are mostly balanced, certainly not anything worthy of upsetting the applecart as you suggest with your ridiculous "Perk all the Spits, even the Mk I" arguments. Quite frankly it's the most inane campaign I have ever seen conducted by a single person.
So, for a simple American like myself, explain to me what your dream arena would look like, and please, outline your perception of where the Fw's in particular fit. You see, I can't imagine how a two planes (the 190D9 and 190A5) could enjoy any more success than they currently do under any other system- except one that totally eliminates all possible competitors.
And BTW, if you call for the perking of the Spit I, you are a total wuss in almost anyone's book.
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Originally posted by DarkglamJG52
You believe yourself the erudite of this BBS. You seem as some catholic priests, they are always the most clever.
[/B]
Look, ma, he's callin' me a pedophile! Bravo!
And for what it's worth, I see myself as a roadkill regulator. When I see something that's obviously off base, either intentionally or ignorantly, I attempt to set the record straight.
...and more than the same thing Old Jedi, you insult only, never arguments.
[/B]
You had little to argue against beyond speculative posts containing incorrect assessments of the Spit's capabilities. That you continue to defend them speaks volumes.
Maybe you (and other spit addicts) should have written this before, I don't start the thread whining about Spit V/IX, I only responded with some comparisons Spit-Niki for the N1K-UFO whiners.
[/B]
I've always maintained that the N1K is a decent and unperkworthy plane. Had you been arguing this, I would have supported you. Instead, you spewed this:
"The N1K is a decent airplane while the Spit V and Spit IX have the same ridiculous UFO-FM" and then backed it up with a checklist of blatantly incorrect Spitfire qualities. You're pulling a Mandoble... trying to talk down your own favorite plane while talking up those that you face so that we all know how great you are that you can beat them. Give it a rest already... one Mandoble is one too many.
Leviathn, your insults bored me, I won't answer more. You can choice appropriate insult for you here (http://appropriate insult for you )
[/B]
You won't answer more because it's clear you can't answer more. You haven't made one single attempt to defend your list of Spitfire flight model characteristics, nor have you fully completed the list like I asked you to do for us.
A comment for all: I am for sure Pyro goes to ignore spit, N1k, La 7, etc whines. We lost our time.
[/B]
Did you ever stop to consider why?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Yeah, there does seem to be too many Spitfires flying around. But I wouldn't actually want to perk the Spitfires for a simple reason that I'd hate to see more Yaks and LA7s, blech! But don't kid yourself, many people are not flying a particular aircraft type because of an affinity for its history or aesthetics but rather for the easy kill. The drop in N1K useage after a modification to its flight model proves that point out. But on the other hand, what is 5-10 perk points for some of the higher performing aircraft or "over used" aircraft?
Some of you tout "let the players fly what they want to fly" yet support the perk on the F4U-1C (or don't want to see a Hellcat with 2-cannon and 4-machine gun which the aircraft left the factory able to accomodate and which I personally WANT to fly ;) ) [I guess USA can't be in the club of free cannon-equipped aircraft flying free in the MA (the one-cannon P-38 doesn't count.)] The Corsair is a VERY popular American aircraft and who wouldn't want to fly one with cannons? The Corsair, cannon-equipped or not, can easily be dealt with.
The other trouble with the Spitfire is that there are about four variants wearing the same tag (including the Seafire) and each used for slightly different purposes in the MA and just which, or all, do you perk/limit?
I'll say it and wait for the slings and arrows, but I hope to see a form of rolling planeset (and rolling perk prices) come to the MA with the introduction of more early-war aircraft. :D
But don't perk the Spitfire. Just call these people "dweebs" until they are peer-pressured into finding a new ride. LOL
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Originally posted by Kieran
This will ensure Mandoble's fantasy superiority arena does pop into being, and the spirit of Kurt Tank will smile upon AH.
Kurt Tank invented Spitfire whining! :eek:
sorry, couldn't resist that.
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Originally posted by Kieran
Based on your lack of understanding of the English language, let me clarify-
Do you prefer an academic reply in spanish?
What u call my "dream" MA is just a balanced one, with some autoprotection system (actually we have the perk system) to prevent any plane to get near 20% of usage.
uh! And stop posting "your" funny versions of what I think about plane types or whatever based only in what you are able to understand about it.
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be right back :)
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
What u call my "dream" MA is just a balanced one, with some autoprotection system (actually we have the perk system) to prevent any plane to get near 20% of usage.
I wonder if it's occurred to you yet that the Spit I, Spit V, Spit IX, and Spit XIV are all different planes. Not a single one of them accounts for 20% useage or kills in the MA.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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porked...
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I would like to see more people in spits. At least, when you come up on one, they will stay and fight.
Most of the time...
Drex
Most misunderstood action in Air Combat: Extending
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I see the problem now.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
uh! And stop posting "your" funny versions of what I think about plane types or whatever based only in what you are able to understand about it.
And with sentances like this, what we can understand is very little. Seriously. What are you trying to say here?
-Sikboy
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All planes have 476862 kills and have been killed 476862 times.
The Spitfire Mk IX has 36071 kills and has been killed 34455 times.
The Spitfire Mk IX has 7.56% of the total kills and 7.23% of the totaldeaths.
The Spitfire Mk IX doesn't even approach half of the claimed 20% of the MA kills.
The Spitfire V has 15598 kills and has been killed 16814 times.
The Spitfire Mk V has 3.27% of the total kills and 3.53% of the total deaths.
The Spitfire Mk V has less than half of the kills and deaths of the Spitfire Mk IX.
The SeaFire has 12091 kills and has been killed 12819 times.
The Seafire Mk II has 2.54% of the total kills and 2.69% of the total deaths.
Wow. We're just not seeing any version of the Spit with 20% of the kills.
The Spitfire Mk I has 909 kills and has been killed 2841 times.
The Spitfire Mk I has 0.19% of the total kills and 0.6% of the total deaths.
My god, how has this thing managed to not be perked?
As you may see, not a single "Spit" iconed aircraft approaches 20% of the total kills. Now, if we follow MANDOBLE's ridicules logic and lump all Spitfire in one category as though they are the same aircraft, which they most certainly are not, we get these numbers:
The Spit has 64669 kills and has been killed 66929 times.
Aircraft iconed "Spit" have 13.56% of the total kills and 14.04% of the total deaths.
Even when we total the kills and deaths of all non-perked Spitfires we can see that the 20% mark is never even approached. The persistant claim of "The Spitfire is getting 20% of the MA kills" is complete BS.
The usage of the Spitfire Mk I points out something else. In the same category as the Spitfire Mk I we have the Bf109E-4, Bf110C-4b, C.202 and Hurricane Mk I. All of these aircraft have a significantly higher K/D ratio than the Spitfire Mk I and yet the Spitfire Mk I has more than twice the deaths of the runner up in its category. Why, we might ask? The only people who fly aircraft in this category do so because the like the aircraft or want to use the high ENYs for perk gathering. There certianly isn't anything "ubėr" about any of them. The Spitfire is obviously not the best choice for perk gathering, the C.202 or Bf110C-4b win that. So why the Spitfire?
I have an idea that violates one of the principles of the anti-Spit group. I think that Many people actually like Spitfires. They are not simply flying it for a crutch as is always claimed, but they are flying it for the same reason that MANDOBLE flies Fw190A-5s and Fw190D-9s.
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Originally posted by Apache
I'm sorry, I just don't get it. I will never again suggest others fly what I fly nor in the manner I fly. I learned to adjust my way of thinking if I was gettin rattled. Yes, I agree their are alot of N1k's and spit's. I just changed my target selection a little and been having a blast.
That's exactly correct. I don't care who's flying what. Spits are easy if you use the proper tactics and avoid a turning fight. Sure, some Spit pilots will whine about "cherry picking", but that's just sour grapes. The same goes for N1K2s.
Let me address some remarks from others too.
Geez, if you arrive at a fight with an altitude advantage, YOU SET THE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT. It doesn't get any more simple than that. If you don't have the alt advantage, you extend away, climb and get it. Facts are hard things. If some pilots find themselves getting smacked by Spits and N1K2s, I suggest that their SA is the problem, not those aircraft. Even if you don't have the advantage in altitude, good SA goes a long way to winning anyway. Rarely do I encounter a P-51 below me. Yet, I'm something like 62/8 against the P-51. Why? Because I'm aware of where they are, and what they're doing. If they're not real careful, eventually I'm gonna take their E/alt advantage away, then I'll kill 'em.
Recently I started flying the Dora some. So far, I'm 13/4, with 3 lost to PTs and Flak, or 11/1 air to air. One loss was to a Spitfire that I failed to notice sneaking in on me. That was my fault, because, had I noticed the Spitfire, I never would have let it get anywhere near me. If you are losing Doras to Nikis and Spits, your SA is probably the reason. Remember, it's your SA that gets you ganged. Knowing where the enemy is in location and altitude is SA. Moreover, this extends well beyond visual range, into adjacent sectors as well.
Let's face it, you can't fly through a swarm of Nikis and Spits at Co-E and expect to NOT get smacked. Situational Awareness gentlemen, that is the key. That, and knowing the capability of your fighter and the enemy aircraft too. If I get killed in my Yak or Dora, it's because of poor SA or a deliberate decision to take a major risk (de-acking, strafing Flak Panzers, etc). Either way, I am responsible for placing myself in that situation. It's not like you just woke up to find burglers in your house. You left the door unlocked.
The sooner pilots are willing to admit that the problem isn't the Spitfires, Nikis or Yaks, and accept that their SA and tactics are the root causes of their woes, the sooner they will see their losses drop dramatically.
My regards,
Widewing
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Mahn-duh-BO-LEE
Believe it or not, I am not trying to be funny. I have never taken anything away from your ability to fly in this game. I do however take exception to your ridiculous campaign, and laugh out loud every time you add a new plane to the "there is something wrong with this plane" list.
Your English is not as good as you think it is, trust me.
Steven-
Of course some people fly the easiest to fly and kill plane. Of course some people want to get right into the middle of things and will choose the quickest (in their minds) venue to that place. So? The sticking point here is how do you define what is easiest to kill and live in, isn't it? If that is the argument, the Spit isn't it- it sports a lower k/d stat-wise than many other planes.
What have we heard needs to be perked?
*La7
*N1K2J
*Yak
*Spit I
*Spit V
*Spit IX
*Seafire
Honorable Mention
*F6F5
*Hurricane II
Then there is the untold number of posts to the effect "Woe is the 190, when will it ever be given a fair shake!" followed by much hand-wringing. We're told over and over how much harder it is to fly a LW plane, how it takes soooo much more skill, how if they are EVER modeled right people will really see how good the LW pilots are...
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LOL nice one beet1e talk about putting the cat amongst the pidgeons and then tossing in a stick of dynamite, not seen so much fur and feathers flying for a long time :D
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Nah, all he did was rip the scab off an old cut.
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dang it karnak, I did the same thing in another thread. we should coordinate our efforts next time. ;)
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Karnak, I must admit that this last tour I was most of the time grounded, and my perception comes mostly from past tours, if the numbers air-air as like those you posted, then spit usage has decreased noticeably.
Kieran, I never though my english was near average. Next time, when you reply directly to me, do it in spanish cause due my poor english I may missunderstand u.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Karnak, I must admit that this last tour I was most of the time grounded, and my perception comes mostly from past tours, if the numbers air-air as like those you posted, then spit usage has decreased noticeable.
How much did you fly Tour 27? Because I just crunched some numbers, and all Spits combined totalled only 12.7% of all arena kills during the April tour. So if anything, Spit useage has increased over time. Your misperception of their overabundance, however, has persisted.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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remember, DJV's stats are fighter vs fighter. The stats we're pulling off the Stats page are figther vs everything. So don't compare the two. IIRC, the CHog's 20% was all kills, not just fighter v fighter. Correct me if I'm wrong.
edit: I was wrong. 16.3% of all kills for CHog in Tour 15. 19.86% of all fighter vs fighter kills in Tour 15.
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STOP!!!!
I CAN'T STAND IT ANY LONGER!!!!
THAT HIGH PITCHED SOUND IS DRIVING ME CRAZY!!!!
IS IT....IS IT....WHINING?????
C'mon man....cinch up you drawers, choose your sled and go learn how to kill something. Just stop whining about this plane and that plane and that GV over there and this PT Boat is porked and I can't get a date!!!
It is what it is and it costs $15.00/month....how complicated is that?
And if your going to whine about something, whine about something valid, like why you didn't get your diploma or why you had more pimples than you thought was fair. Something other than this sim, which WAITS FOR NO MAN!!!
Hop on or git off....please!!!
THE BUTTON....THE BUTTON!!!! PUSH THE BUTTON DALE!!!!
:)
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Originally posted by Rude
...this PT Boat is porked and I can't get a date!!!
ROFL
Just getting in on the 3 page thread, haven't read anything but Rude's response :D
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Don't forget the Seafire. It wears the "Spit" tag and so in the arena adds to the impression of the total number of Spitfires out there.
I posted this back on 5/3/2002 based on this link:
http://www.dbstaines.com/tourstats/tour27/tour27.htm
=============
After posting I got curious about something, why do I see so many Spitfires? Well, in adding the totals for a couple aircraft that has more than one variant but which wears the same exact label, I quickly came up with:
Spit = 16.76% of all kills
P-51 = 9.12% of all kills
F4U = 7.87% of all kills
P-47 = 3.17% of all kills
The Spitfire totals do not count the Seafire or the Mk14 and the F4U totals do not count the dash4. If you do add in the Seafire (because it's really not a different aircraft, just a variant), the Spitfire kills in the arena total 20.41% of all kills. That's why it seems a Spitfest to me in the MA. Every fifth kill in the MA is made by some variant of Spitfire.
I wonder what aircraft deaths would reveal.
Heh heh, this is fun. Spit, LA7, N1K and P51s total 40.83% of the kills in the MA.
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Also....
Tour 26:
http://www.dbstaines.com/tourstats/tour26/tour26.htm
Spit9 11.34%
Spit5 6.94%
Seafire 3.43%
Spit1: .47%
Total: Spit tag was used for 22.18% of the kills in the MA
Tour 25:
http://www.dbstaines.com/tourstats/tour25/tour25.htm
Spit9 12.27%
Spit5 6.70%
Seafire 2.75%
Spit1 0%
Total: Spit tag was used for 21.72% of the kills in the MA
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Steven,
I did count the Seafire (see my post further up) and reached a total of 13.56% of the total.
How'd you reach 16.76%?
I think your numbers are off.
I also think only counting fighter vs fighter numbers are not an accurate method of guaging the percentage makeup of the MA. I feel that I am fighting when I am attacking a B-17, Ostwind or PT-Boat, not just fighters.
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Originally posted by Steven
Don't forget the Seafire. It wears the "Spit" tag and so in the arena adds to the impression of the total number of Spitfires out there.
[/B]
By golly, you're right. :) I did forget to add in the Seafire, which adds an additional 2.6% of kills to that total... so my numbers come out to 15.3%, not 16.76, but that's close enough. Nonetheless, ALL Spit models (Spitfires I, V, IX, XIV, and the Seafire) don't account for as high a percentage of kills as the single F4U-1C did.
In any event, this is something that we should disaggregate. Decrying a "UFO" flight model and calling to perk "Spits" ignores the fact that AH sports five distinct variants.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Karnak,
I'm using this link as I posted above and you are correct, this is Fighter v Fighter.
http://www.dbstaines.com/tourstats/tour27/tour27.htm
Spit9 10.65% of the kills in the MA
Spit5 5.70% of the kills in the MA
Seafire 3.65% of the kills in the MA
Spit1 .41% of the kills in the MA
Spit tags total 20.41% of the kills in the MA
I joined right after Tour 15, but this was interesting:
http://www.dbstaines.com/tourstats/tour15/tour15.htm
F4U-1C: 19.86%
F4U-1D: 4.32%
F4U totals 24.18% using the numbers provided on this link.
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Steven is using Deja's numbers right? Those are just the .vs Fighter numbers, which discount Buffs, and if we're talking kills, lessens the impact of Jabo aircraft.
-Sikboy
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Mahn-duh-BO-LEE
I never professed to know Spanish. I never deigned to tell Spanish speakers they didn't speak their own language properly. ;) My point to you here is you totally misunderstood a portion of my comments to you, in fact turned them completely around to get the opposite meaning.
Steven-
Uh, right. Count the five variants of the Spitfire as one plane? Why not count the five variants of the 109 and make a sweeping generalization based upon the best performance aspects of all five variants? You know, take the speed of the 10, the turn of the F, the cannons of the G6, etc. and call it/them uber? That'd be about as fair as lumping all the Spits together. While you're at it, do that for all three variants of the Fw.
Really, isn't that a silly argument anyway? "Every fifth kill is made by some variant?" Here we are swinging again from "UFO" to "too many"... again. This lobby sure cannot seem to make up its mind...
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Kieren,
You sure are getting your panties in a wad for nothing.
I'm just talking about TAGS in the game. When I fly around and see "Spit", "Spit", "Spit", "N1K", "Spit", "Spit", "LA7"....I can't tell what variant of Spitfire (Seafire) is within icon range. I can do and have done the same with the "109" tags, but it wasn't all that impressive. It has nothing to do with characterstics of flight or gunnery or anything else. Just a simplistic measure to explain why one TAG is seen so much in the MA.
109G2 .75%
109G6 1.09%
109G10 3.59%
109F4 .76%
109 tags total 6.19% of total ftr v ftr kills in the MA for tour 27.
Happy?
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This was posted on another thread that had about 14 trillion replies... I wish I could find it so I could give credit where it is due...
Munches on Popcorn :D
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Just what is the correct percent of kills for one aircraft to have?
And is the official correct percentage based on specific type, like "109G10" or is the official correct percentage based on generic type like "109"?
Is there an acceptable range, is it a hard percentage or is it a less than?
Lastly, when does the Board meet to decide the correct official percentage? Are the meetings regularly scheduled or are they on an "as needed" basis? Are the Board positions elective or appointive and do the "taxpayers" get any input into the Board representation?
Thanks!
:D
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It's perfectly natural for 109 to be used less than Spit. Why would players want to fly a plane that represents something the Nazis used when they can fly a plane that represents the valiant defenders of Britain and the liberators of western Europe? For many (most?) players it's a simple choice.
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Man oh man, I'm gonna shut up now. I did post some data for people to chew on and made the mistake of posting an old msg from another thread in it's entirety. Hear me now, I do not wish to have the Spitfire perked.
I probably should not have made comment about the F4U-1C, but I threw that in as a comparison and maybe that is a ceiling for MA useage. I joined right after the days when the skies were full of F4U icons because the Chog was unperked, but where does the "let the people fly what they wish to fly" end and the restrictions begin? I guess at about 20% if you look at FvF Chog stats.
When you fly in the MA, you really do not know what the types of Spitfires are that are out there, but all you see is "Spit." Since the Spitfires do not wear a separate TAG other than the Spit14, and using some simplistic measure based on FvF kills, I jump to the conclusion that when I fly a mission in the MA and look around with Icons set to "plane type", 15-25% of the arena consists of SPIT at any given time. I know it's not a perfect measure, but it's better than reaching for one out of thin air. Yes, the MA is full of SPIT. Still, do not perk it. People would gravitate towards the LA7 and Yak and I hate those more.
Toad, I wasn't even hinting at coming to a percentage, but you tell me what the correct percentage is for one aircraft to have or aircraft type? Also, give me reason why the F4U-1C and F4U-4 should be perked when you strike me as the loudest among the "let the people fly what they want to fly" crowd. It can't be both ways. Shoot, I'm looking forward to flying a Wildcat and Warhawk in the MA and I'm gonna get my bell rung HARD when I do.
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What Funked said.
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Are there any spanish players in AH that don't fly LW only ?
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Puke, I have no idea what a "correct" percentage would be. Didn't say you did either.
I just figured I must have been off the boards the day the "correct percentage" was decided. :D
As far as perking, I personally wouldn't perk anything. I really don't care what anyone else flies. Just as you are going to go ahead and fly the Wildcat no matter what anyone else is flying.
I think it's just ebb and flow. IMO, eventually people would have moved out of the F4U-1C looking for something different in the AH experience. It's only a killer because of the guns. After a while, that'd have to get old I'd think.
Perk points? I once used fighter perks. We let guys in the squad call the mission and one night somebody said "F4U-4" and so I spent my first fighter perks on that sortie. We got caught low climbing out and got basically slaughtered. :) Haven't spent a fighter perk since.. doubt I will..... don't care either way.
Perk, schmerk. I like to fight. I'll fight anything. Sometimes I fight smart, sometimes I fight stupid. But I just like to fight.
So you guys fly what you like. Let's fight. :)
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What Toad said, and more. I am another person that thinks nothing should be perked (with the possible exception of the 262), but if the system has to exist, the ones that are currently perked are probably as good as any to do.
I am not against your POV, Steven, you just jumped in at a bad spot. Mahn-duh-BO-LEE is the one I am really directing most of this at, because he has a particular agenda and doesn't much care how he gets it done. And, like Toad, I am curious what is the break point percentage for perking.
Of course, I don't really believe that is it at all for some, they are going to complain about X or Y plane as long as they exist in the sim for their own reasons, indecipherable as those reasons might be for most of us.
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Originally posted by Toad
......parts of this thread remind me of the movie Rainman.
I can almost hear Mandoble say "Time for Judge Wapner!"
"Kmart sucks Ray..."
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Originally posted by Samm
Are there any spanish players in AH that don't fly LW only ?
Many players Samm. There are approximately 30 Spanish players of AH, only Supongo, Mandoble, RAM and me fly LW irons as main rides. Other players are F4U fans( Lince, Zamo), N1K(Aker, Japanx), P51D(Durruti, Gadget), P38(Belcebu, Javier(1)), yak(Camaleon) and even spits (Victhor, others). Nidea is our pt, flack, m16 hero.
Some notes about the spanish and Spain for you Samm and others:
- Spain is not the same country that Mexico
- Not all the spanish are bullfighting
- Not all the spanish sing and dance "flamenco"
- In Spain rains, specially in the north of the country
- Franco died in 1975(too late)
My regards.
(1) He is from Mexico
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Funny thread, I don't believe I read thru it.
Niki perked ? Come on.
Spit perked ? Come on.
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Ok it is just the few vocal spaniards, RAM, Mandoble, Glasses, Tekada, and now you that gave me that impression. Since these are the only spanish I ever seem to see posting here .
Anyway it's good to know that you guys represent only a small portion of the spanish aces high players .
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Originally posted by Samm
Ok it is just the few vocal spaniards, RAM, Mandoble, Glasses, Tekada, and now you that gave me that impression. Since these are the only spanish I ever seem to see posting here .
For most of the Spaniards write or speak in English is a torture(included me). Glasses is from Puerto Rico, no spanish.
Originally posted by Samm
Anyway it's good to know that you guys represent only a small portion of the spanish aces high players .
It is good for the business of HTC, for you it is the same thing.
But if you want you can separate now the good Spaniards of the Spanish bads (LW riders or "too biased" like Morsa says).
This small portion help a lot of new players(and clients) of AH from spain last times, I sure that you don't know that.
I hope that somebody began a thread with title "15 reasons because I love play AH", I can give them quickly. Anyway I would continue without be a cheerleader and protesting if some game-play aspect is wrong IMO.
Saludos(my regards).
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Originally posted by Samm
Are there any spanish players in AH that don't fly LW only ?
Any problem with that?
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This thread, and some of the people involved in it, are the most rediculous things I have seen in a long time. Utterly useless.
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Originally posted by funkedup
It's perfectly natural for 109 to be used less than Spit. Why would players want to fly a plane that represents something the Nazis used when they can fly a plane that represents the valiant defenders of Britain and the liberators of western Europe? For many (most?) players it's a simple choice.
that malcom hood makes more room for your trolling reel too...
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Originally posted by Pongo
that malcom hood makes more room for your trolling reel too...
ROTFLOL!
This thread: Waste of bandwidth. Makes me think of some of my threads in Beta. :D
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Any problem with that?
Of course not.
Only a spoiled child would try to tell other paying customers what they should or should not fly.
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Originally posted by Toad
Of course not.
Only a spoiled child would try to tell other paying customers what they should or should not fly.
Hmmm, everytime I fly HTH with Geeman, he ALWAYS wants me to fly the same plane as he's flying...may have to re-think fatherhood. :)
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Has nothing to do with what you fly, I was talking about luftwhining . And I know where Glasses is from, I also know his parents are from Spain, he told me once. Was just making a point that spanish players might be getting a bad reputation because of the behavior of a few, which wouldn't be fair .
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"Lastly, when does the Board meet to decide..."
I wasn't expecting a Spanish inquisition!
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"Put him innnnnnn........the comfy chair!"
:D
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Originally posted by Samm
Has nothing to do with what you fly, I was talking about luftwhining . And I know where Glasses is from, I also know his parents are from Spain, he told me once. Was just making a point that spanish players might be getting a bad reputation because of the behavior of a few, which wouldn't be fair .
Luftwhining? :) and what about alliedwhining? You don't read the thread against Me 110 started by -ammo- (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47804&highlight=Me110)? or the thread protesting for the Spit XIV quality? Here everybody cries, not only the fans of the LW planes or the spanish players and nobody doubts of their reputation.
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Darkglam,
You might have noticed that those talking about the Spit XIV weren't saying it was wrong, simply that it wasn't worth 60 points.
As to the 110, well, as soon as the Mossie came out there were several people saying that it needed to be either nerfed or perked. That just happens the best free plane in each release, even if there is no realistic justification for it.
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Originally posted by K West
"Lastly, when does the Board meet to decide..."
I wasn't expecting a Spanish inquisition!
You are expecting for the senator MaCarthy.
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That was kind of my point, I haven't seen any spanish allied plane whiners .
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Originally posted by Samm
That was kind of my point, I haven't seen any spanish allied plane whiners .
That is true, although Lince and Zamo (the F4U fans and ex AirWarrior players) have told me many times that F4U is undermodeled at AH (poor climb-rate), but certainly they never write here.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Darkglam,
You might have noticed that those talking about the Spit XIV weren't saying it was wrong, simply that it wasn't worth 60 points.
As to the 110, well, as soon as the Mossie came out there were several people saying that it needed to be either nerfed or perked. That just happens the best free plane in each release, even if there is no realistic justification for it.
Copy and Paste
"it is about the worst flying plane in aces high.
109s have better highspeed handing and better e retention" (Fester)
"Uhm, I don't need data to show that it's unstable.
Go fly it. 109G10 is by far a better gun platform... and it's got a 30mm cannon." (AKSwulfe)
110 AND Mossie are very easy kills for 95% of figthers of MA. Fortunately for 110 and Mossie drivers, the only "ACM" that use 75% of the players of the MA is the HO (90% in the case of Spits, Tiffis and N1k).
Karnak, I have curiosity about the Spit V tests stalls. I have read recently the great book "Wings of LW" and I believe that some of the allied tests were not very impartial(By example Ta 152 test without GM-1 and MW-50).
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"... Lince and Zamo (the F4U fans and ex AirWarrior players) have told me many times that F4U is undermodeled at AH (poor climb-rate)..."
Based on what? AW's flight model? :rolleyes:
Westy
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Originally posted by DarkglamJG52
Copy and Paste
"Uhm, I don't need data to show that it's unstable.
Go fly it. 109G10 is by far a better gun platform... and it's got a 30mm cannon." (AKSwulfe)
Good job, you picked that one out like a white guy in the middle of the night.
Don't take bits of a post and then use them out of context. You read the rest of the thread, I was saying the SpitXIV was unstable compared to it's late war counterparts... that's why all late war uber planes should be perked.
So basically, that wasn't a whine.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Don't take bits of a post and then use them out of context. You read the rest of the thread, I was saying the SpitXIV was unstable compared to it's late war counterparts... that's why all late war uber planes should be perked.
So basically, that wasn't a whine.
-SW
how can it be a whine when you're just stating a fact? You didn't challenge the validity of the unstableness nor did you demand it be fixed. It's no different than saying "the c202 is undergunned compared to the Hurri IIc." I bet they'll say you're whining about not whining now, swulfe. ;)
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I flew the Bf-109F-2 last night for the first time and had no problems knocking down N1Kis and LaGGs, so long as I caught them when their backs were turned. :)
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What's a LaGG ?
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A LaGG is the earlier inline versions of the La series.
LaGG-1 and LaGG-3.
German pilots in the war still refered to La5s, La5FNs and La7s as LaGGs.
-SW
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Originally posted by K West
"... Lince and Zamo (the F4U fans and ex AirWarrior players) have told me many times that F4U is undermodeled at AH (poor climb-rate)..."
Based on what? AW's flight model? :rolleyes:
Westy
Yes. According to them the F4U was much more competitive in AW that here. I never flew AW.
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
So basically, that wasn't a whine.
-SW
Then basically, my opinions wasn't a whine.
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Originally posted by gofaster
I flew the Bf-109F-2 last night for the first time and had no problems knocking down N1Kis and LaGGs, so long as I caught them when their backs were turned. :)
According to the stats you not shotdown any the La 7 this tour.
...and about the Cubans, I think that they are very busy looking for a breakfast. Be careful, Cubans can throw big stones at 425 miles.
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LaGG is a different company than the La, isnt it?.
Daff
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"Yes. According to them the F4U was much more competitive in AW that here."
As I thought. And it basically means squat because the just about all the FM's in AW were universally screwed up. I can understand why they would not post here. If they think that using AW for the basis of what they think is realistic and that the way AW's aircraft were modelled would be any yard stick for what they think should be a simulated flight model then they'd be ridiculed pretty badly.
Westy
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widewing... I would contend that your alt theory is.... simplistic.
The advantage of alt (over the target)for me is that the con has to fight me if I have the alt. If he has alt.... It simply means that he has to come down to be a danger to me or that I have to waste a lot of time working my way up to him which, is boring in the extreme... Fortunately... the arena is packed enough most of the time when I am on that it is not a real problem. The advantage to being lower than the con is that he thinks he has the advantage and it makes him overcome his timidity.
lazs
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Originally posted by DarkglamJG52
Then basically, my opinions wasn't a whine.
Oh no, you see what I was saying in no way correlates with the way you were saying your "opinions".
Here, I'll remind you:
"Negative, some pilots fly the spit very very well, with brain and using well the UFO technology."
See, you referenced something mythical that does not exist. This is a whine.
"The N1K is a decent airplane while the Spit V and Spit IX have the same ridiculous UFO-FM."
And this, same thing. Oh, and you are definitely the first person to say the N1K2 does not have a UFO FM and the Spit does...
"Ridiculous, UFO, in what way?
1) 15 G's movements without structural failure
2) Eternal nose up (also in the N1K)
3) Outurn a Zeke (Spit V)
4) Magical E maintenance
5) One Hispano ping D800=kill
6) Optimist roll-rate 200-300Mph
7) etc, etc, etc..."
Well, this whole paragraph is just wrong. 15G's? Without structural damage? Have you tried to do that offline? Betcha can't. You overexagerated your point.
Eternal nose up... dunno, just sounds like a whine.
Outturn a Zeke... SpitV... well I'm not to surprised. The SpitV got destroyed by A6M2s and A6M3s, not A6M5bs...
Magical E maintenance.. well, it's actually E retention... but anyway, you can't prove it's magical.
One hispano ping D800=kill, you ever asked the guy how many times he saw pings on you? Again, something you can't prove.. especially not just by sound.
Optimist roll-rate... well, the SpitIX is a combination of a bunch of Spit versions and is no one version. So you can't really prove if it's accurate or not based on whichever SpitIX model they pulled the roll rate from.
etc etc etc... sounds like you ran outta things to whine about there!
"Sure. Spit dweeb procedure: Take off, shot d 3.0, nose up and shot against plane at 5k alt near field. The end of the history is very well-known, the 109 or P51 or P38 or 190 or F4 or P47 pilot dive and kill the moron...and of course says "other dweeb killed". "
And then you go on to whine about the people who fly 'em.
Okay, so this is your opinion.... but it's definitly a bunch of whines. Opinionated whines, maybe. but whining nonetheless.
-SW
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Originally posted by Daff
LaGG is a different company than the La, isnt it?.
Daff
No, La in LaGG stands for Lavochkin. The GG are two other designers I think... Gorbunov,Gudkov.. I don't know if those guys left or what.
but the La5 is just an LaGG-3 fuselage with a radial engine.
-SW
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Originally posted by DarkglamJG52
Luftwhining? :) and what about alliedwhining? You don't read the thread against Me 110 started by -ammo- (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47804&highlight=Me110)? or the thread protesting for the Spit XIV quality? Here everybody cries, not only the fans of the LW planes or the spanish players and nobody doubts of their reputation.
Ahh, Ammo's wasn't a whine, it was a fact. The 110 is indeed overmodeled. See the bug forum. (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=53290&referrerid=3203) :cool:
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Originally posted by DarkglamJG52
Yes. According to them the F4U was much more competitive in AW that here. I never flew AW.
Whomever you had asked was probably a relaxed realism flyer in AW, where the F4 was a lot more competitive. In the FR arenas it was a different story and not many newbies flew it there.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by akak
Whomever you had asked was probably a relaxed realism flyer in AW, where the F4 was a lot more competitive. In the FR arenas it was a different story and not many newbies flew it there.
Ack-Ack
Negative. L1NCE was 42 as fighter last tour, at the moment is
39 on tour 29. I think that he flew at FR arenas always.
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Originally posted by DarkglamJG52
Yes. According to them the F4U was much more competitive in AW that here. I never flew AW.
In AW it had a 4K/Min rate of climb. Otherwise it was pretty much the same as in AH.
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Originally posted by Montezuma
In AW it had a 4K/Min rate of climb. Otherwise it was pretty much the same as in AH.
With wep on -13% aprox in AH. But chars of climb rate don't specify fuel level and other variables.