Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: BGBMAW on June 01, 2002, 02:50:28 PM
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ok so the US gov..gives warning to Airlines for possible attak w/ missles...
How are they supposed to defend against SA-7's and Stingers????
BGBAMW1st Marine Air Wing
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Easiest way is to just stay high. :)
But... they're going to have to come down to land.
So there are some new technologies in development...
LAIRCM (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/laircm.htm) is one example.
Also, you can read up on EO/IR countermeasures at
Journal of Electronic Defense Online (http://www.jedonline.com/default.asp?journalid=4&func=articles&page=0111j14&year=2001&month=11&srchexpr=IRCM#hls1) (registration is required).
JEDOnline also has an article on
Protecting the Big Boys (http://www.jedonline.com/default.asp?journalid=4&func=articles&page=1112j15&year=2000&month=12&srchexpr=%22Protecting+the+Big+Boys%22#hls1)
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Also, you can read up on EO/IR countermeasures at
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Oh great...I'd love to be on the plane in which the pilot has to perform radical evasive manouvers while pumping chaff and flares out of their dispensers.
"Ladies and Gentlemen, please fasten your seatbealts....and tighten your sphincters."
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ain't it iran-ic when weapons we've handed out like lolipops all over the world come back to bite us on the ass? rayguns CIA gave hundreds of stingers to the mujahadeen in, um, afganeestan in the 80's.
can anyone say 'blowback'?
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Originally posted by KG45
ain't it iran-ic when weapons we've handed out like lolipops all over the world come back to bite us on the ass? rayguns CIA gave hundreds of stingers to the mujahadeen in, um, afganeestan in the 80's.
can anyone say 'blowback'?
It's true that small arms proliferation has not had the same press as weapons of mass destruction. The UN has started taking steps towards small arms, but so long as the big 5 can veto any measures of the security council it is unlikely that things will change. Speaking of Iran, Thanks France, for selling them the Exocet Missiles used to Attack the USS Stark in 1987. Or thanks Russia, for setting up the Serb Air Defense network. Lets not pretend that the US is the only horse at the trough here.
As far as Stinger missiles go... I really wonder how many they have left? I ride the Train into the Pentagon Metro station every morning, and I've often wondered if those guys fishing under the bridge might ever be after something a little bigger. The flight path to National Airport goes right over the Potomac, and the planes get nice and low just as the come over the bridges. It's a sobering thought that's for sure.
-Sikboy
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Speaking of Iran, Thanks France, for selling them the Exocet Missiles used to Attack the USS Stark in 1987.
The Stark was struck by Iraqi missiles.
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Originally posted by Nashwan
The Stark was struck by Iraqi missiles.
......don't know the origins of the Stark missiles, but what about the Exocets used in the Falklands against the British?
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Gov is just going done the list of all possible threats in a major CYA move. Seems we get a warning every 48 hrs. But if they didn't warn us, the dems would jump all over them within the week after the next attack for not.
"What did Bush Know and When did he KNow IT!" :rolleyes:
On the flip side, guess they forgot the childhood story about the boy who cried wolf ....
Like anyone can do anything about S to A missiles fired at landing/takin off airliners... besides puttin ur head btwn ur knees & kiss your arse goodbye if you see the contrail headin ur way..
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Originally posted by Nashwan
The Stark was struck by Iraqi missiles.
You are absolutly right. I stand corrected.
Curval, the missiles and aircraft were French in Origin, Nashwan is pointing out that they were fired by the Iraqi's, not the Iranians.
-Sikboy
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Originally posted by Curval
Oh great...I'd love to be on the plane in which the pilot has to perform radical evasive manouvers while pumping chaff and flares out of their dispensers.
"Ladies and Gentlemen, please fasten your seatbealts....and tighten your sphincters."
The idea is to avoid maneuvering at all...
Read up on systems like TADIRCM (http://www.iews.na.baesystems.com/business/99_news/sa1804.htm).
The Navy-led flight tests took place at Patuxent River Naval Air Station, MD, June 14 to 23. Two TADIRCM subsystems - a two-color IR Missile Warning System (MWS) and Sanders' "Agile Eye" Micro-Jam Head - were mounted on the belly of a P-3 Orion test aircraft. During multiple tests, the P-3 flew by the ground-based target at an altitude of 1500 feet and at distances varying from one to four kilometers. With high reliability, the IR Missile Warning System detected and identified the simulated threat, and provided target positioning data to the Agile Eye Micro-Jam Head. The jam head successfully acquired every target, enabling the laser to maintain energy on the target for the duration of each flyby.
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"During multiple tests, the P-3 flew by the ground-based target at an altitude of 1500 feet and at distances varying from one to four kilometers. With high reliability, the IR Missile Warning System detected and identified the simulated threat, and provided target positioning data to the Agile Eye Micro-Jam Head. The jam head successfully acquired every target, enabling the laser to maintain energy on the target for the duration of each flyby."
EDITED....didn't read your link the first time.
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Originally posted by Sikboy
Curval, the missiles and aircraft were French in Origin, Nashwan is pointing out that they were fired by the Iraqi's, not the Iranians.
-Sikboy
ahhhh
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Originally posted by Curval
"During multiple tests, the P-3 flew by the ground-based target at an altitude of 1500 feet and at distances varying from one to four kilometers. With high reliability, the IR Missile Warning System detected and identified the simulated threat, and provided target positioning data to the Agile Eye Micro-Jam Head. The jam head successfully acquired every target, enabling the laser to maintain energy on the target for the duration of each flyby."
Sorry, I didn't read the links 'cause I hate registering...but, what is quoted above merely tells me that the "detection" of an IR threat was sucess. (Unless the Micro-Jam head is an actual jamming device that also sucessully accomplished the diversion of the missile threat.)
Try this article. (http://www.baesystems.com/virtualnewsroom/archive/310102news1.htm?opener=archivemain.htm)
The November 19, 2001, test was the first time that a modern infrared air-to-air missile launched at a tactical fighter has been defeated by an on-board laser-based directional infrared countermeasures system. The test was conducted at the U.S. Naval Weapons Range at China Lake, California.
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But wait... there's more. (http://www.fibertek.com/Northrup_news2.htm)
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Plz... Promise I wont shoot my eye out!
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I doubt any stinger missles are in working order from the Russo/Afghan conflict. The batteries are probably dead in the all the missles. I am pretty sure the stinger missle only has about a 30 second (if even that long) battery life once the launcher is activated.
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Fid those missiles no doubt supassed thier shelf-life, but I've seen plenty of them hit drones in the same condition. The battery is a separate unit, and likely very easy to copy/reverse engineer but your right, they don't last long (while in use).
Tumor
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Originally posted by BGBMAW
ok so the US gov..gives warning to Airlines for possible attak w/ missles...
How are they supposed to defend against SA-7's and Stingers????
BGBAMW1st Marine Air Wing
Unfortunately, nothing significant will happen until people start getting killed. Safety regulations and defense policy are written in blood. Sad, but true.
Edit: I have no idea how real the threat is.
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Gosh, don't all those gun laws passed by Congress ensure that an attack on an airliner by a missile is impossible? Fear not.
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Originally posted by Curval
......don't know the origins of the Stark missiles, but what about the Exocets used in the Falklands against the British?
The Excocets used by the Argies int he Falklands came from two sources.
In the Super Entard deal with the French, and on Destroyers purchased from Britian. I believe they tried to modify the destroyer ones to launch them from the super entards.
They attempted to get more and were owed more by the French.. but the missles were not delivered.
They would have been wise to stock up a few dozen befor they atacked the Falklands...but these dictator guys often lack smarts in one way or another..
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Stingers only have a shelf life (without refurbishment) of about 10 years from what I've read on at a number of sources. By that point in time they are considered fairly unreliable, at best, and quickly deteriorate from there. The US ones given to the Afgans must be pretty near that date by now if not surpassing it. I doubt they were kept in good condition either so they are probably worse than average. It's not just the batteries that go flat either, it is also the rocket motors and warhead fuzes.
Why would you use one against a civilan target anyway. The value of a stinger is such that you'd probably want to use it against something valuable, not just a passenger airline. Besides, Stinger was made to engage low flying, small aircraft or helicopters. It is questionable whether it would be terribly effective against a large airliner. The warhead is just too small and the lock on point (the engine) is out on a pylon. The stingers tended to have some difficulties taking down small aircraft (although they did damage them significantly) so their effect against something as large as an airliner is questionable.
Pongo's correct on the Falklands, the Argentinians have several more Exocets on order but not delivered. They also had a limited number of trained pilots and aircraft that could make use of them. Just about every backwater republic has access to Exocet/Silkworm/Chinese Copies of something, let alone some of the more restricted stuff like Harpoons, Sea Eagle, etc. Add a couple more Super Entards, some more trained pilots and a dozen more Exocets and the Brits would have had more of a problem on their hands.
-Soda
The Assassins.