Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SunKing on June 03, 2002, 12:26:51 AM
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check it out.
http://www.americasarmy.com/jumppage.html
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...i didn't order that free game!! nope, not me!
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It is a runner up for Gamespy's 'Best of E3' action game.
http://www.gamespy.com/e32002/awards/index15.shtml
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I can't wait for the Ultra-Left response.
"How dare the Army make a game about War!" :eek:
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Originally posted by Kratzer
It is a runner up for Gamespy's 'Best of E3' action game.
http://www.gamespy.com/e32002/awards/index15.shtml
Get outta here!?!
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Just preordered mine. looks damn cool.
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As long as all races creeds and colors have the same opportunity to be killed by the dweebs playing this thing.....thats all I really care about.
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Oh great..not available to Canadians...
ITS A CONSPIRACY!
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Well, Pongo, if Canucks would use real money instead of that Monopoly stuff, perhaps then...:p
Sabre
P.S. Still got that Canadian $5 you left on my keyboard two years ago.:)
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Originally posted by Pongo
Oh great..not available to Canadians...
ITS A CONSPIRACY!
Hey, the Canadian goverment is also gonna spend $7mil to make one. Serious!
mwaahahhahahahahhaha!!!
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hehe it's free but i BET the recruiter will start calling you every day :p I preodered anyway.
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Did you see the part where no matter which side you are on, you look like U.S. Soldiers and the enemy looks like terrorists? They don't want you turning into John Walker on them, I guess.
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I'm sorry, but am I the only one outraged by this? This is a blatant propiganda ploy designed to get 18 and 19 year old nimrods who are tired of working at Jack In The Box to join the friggin Army. What a friggin waste of my tax money. Oh, did you catch that part about "adjusting your attitude" to become a better soldier? What a crock.
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I told you....:rolleyes:
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Damn! Finally, a tangible result of my tax dollars at work!
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I'm with Ozark. Free games of this kind will always be welcome.:D :cool:
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Ordered mine...hey, maybe they'll recruit me hehehe.
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Originally posted by Ozark
Damn! Finally, a tangible result of my tax dollars at work!
You wish your tax dollars spent on a game designed to teach conformity and sanitize war in an effort to entice the 18 and 19 year old Beavises and Buttheads of America to enlist in the Army?
Not me.
In fact I'd rather see the Army produce a game designed to attract all of you 30 to 40 yr old right wing extremists into enlisting. Maybe instead of a soldier shooting a terrorist we could have a conservative porking an Arab sheep stuck in a fence. You right wingers would be enlisting in droves.
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
I'm sorry, but am I the only one outraged by this? This is a blatant propiganda ploy designed to get 18 and 19 year old nimrods who are tired of working at Jack In The Box to join the friggin Army. What a friggin waste of my tax money. Oh, did you catch that part about "adjusting your attitude" to become a better soldier? What a crock.
You really understimate our government Elfenwolf. The target audience of this product will likely be 12-15 year olds. It would be better to indoctrinate them earlier, so you don't have to untrain the Jack in the Box out of them.
-Sikboy
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
You wish your tax dollars spent on a game designed to teach conformity and sanitize war in an effort to entice the 18 and 19 year old Beavises and Buttheads of America to enlist in the Army?
Not me.
In fact I'd rather see the Army produce a game designed to attract all of you 30 to 40 yr old right wing extremists into enlisting. Maybe instead of a soldier shooting a terrorist we could have a conservative porking an Arab sheep stuck in a fence. You right wingers would be enlisting in droves.
Blow smoke up someone else’s ass. You Don't Know ME!
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Great advertisement, "If you're under thirteen, what ever you do don't you ever play this game."
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it gets worse :eek:
-Sikboy
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Originally posted by midnight Target
As long as all races creeds and colors have the same opportunity to be killed by the dweebs playing this thing.....thats all I really care about.
:confused: ......
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Originally posted by udet
hehe it's free but i BET the recruiter will start calling you every day :p I preodered anyway.
Nope... but I gotta feeling my kid's gonna be interested. He's dang sure gonna get the phone passed to him either way :D
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
....... "adjusting your attitude" to become a better soldier? What a crock.
Generally speaking, the only people who can't handle this are serious loser's in the first place. What?.. do you think nimrods who go to basic training leave basic training as nimrods?
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Let’s see if I have this straight, I spend my days slaving away for a few measly bucks. Uncle Sam then takes an exorbitant percentage of this meager amount and uses it to create computer games designed to turn my children into mindless, emotionless kill-bots ready and willing to do the bidding of the state.
I can see it now. Daddy, daddy! I just killed my twenty-fifth sand-cupcake and won the Shrub Hero of the Empire Medal!!!
Thank God this money wasn’t wasted on studmuffingity left-wing crap like feeding the homeless! :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Tumor
What?.. do you think nimrods who go to basic training leave basic training as nimrods?
Yes I do, Tumor, but I'll concede they leave Basic as well trained Nimrods taught to obey orders without question. Why do you think the Army only wants our children? Because us old guys would tell them to stuff it after 30 minutes of a DI's abuse.
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Originally posted by Tumor
Generally speaking, the only people who can't handle this are serious loser's in the first place. What?.. do you think nimrods who go to basic training leave basic training as nimrods?
Well they certainly beat the sense of humor out of some of us.
:rolleyes:
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You guys are considering this problem from the wrong end. The size of US army is decided based on the needs of our country security and that of our allies.
After that a buget is allocated - whatever is necessary to recruit the necessary number of soldiers.
If game makes it cheaper to attract people then current $10,000 per recruit - fine. If millions of US children decide they want to join US army after playing the game - so what?
The army will not recruit any more people than it would otherwise. They may have better choice and be able to only admit higher quality recruits but not the greater number.
Elfenwolf: Why do you think the Army only wants our children? Because us old guys would tell them to stuff it after 30 minutes of a DI's abuse.
Unless you think of yourself as plural or royalty, your use of "our" instead of "my" is not correct. Do not mix my children with yours. If you do not care or not capable of bringing your children up so they are ready to face the world, it's your personal problem.
miko
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Originally posted by miko2d
If you do not care or not capable of bringing your children up so they are ready to face the world, it's your personal problem.
miko
And what part of "facing the world" is my child not capable of facing? The part that says we march blindly off, without question, to go fight a war halfway around the world against people who will ultimately be our allies in 20 or 30 years anyway? Or, like Korea, where nothing is accomplished or settled? Oh, I forgot. To question or express reservations about the need to send OUR kids off to war is un-American.
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
And what part of "facing the world" is my child not capable of facing? The part that says we march blindly off, without question, to go fight a war halfway around the world against people who will ultimately be our allies in 20 or 30 years anyway?...
According to you your child is not capable of facing a DI's abuse - "Why do you think the Army only wants our children? Because us old guys would tell them to stuff it after 30 minutes of a DI's abuse."
If you have some knowlege and/or experience that allows you to handle an abusive DI (whatever that is) which you consider essential and you do not care/incapable to pass it to your children, then your parenting is deficient.
You admit that some lousy game will cause your children to "march blindly off, without question, to go fight a war halfway around the world". So it has more influence over your children then you. What kind of parent can you be? Who the heck is supposed to teach your children to question things?
I am sure that you know your children best, so I am not arguing the effects of the game on them and/or their preparedness to face life's trials. Fortunaltely, not all of us are like you. So for accuracy sake you may wish not to bundle our children with yours in your posts.
As you can see it's just a suggestion. It is of course your right to post all kinds of silly assumptions of us and our children based on you own family experience.
miko
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Don't snap the line Elfie!
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i ask you this who needs that when you can play aces high?????
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Actually Miko I've taught my child to question authority, not believe everything you're told and to think for herself and reach her own conclusions. She's not intrested in first person shooters anyway. I was more concerned for YOUR kids.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Well they certainly beat the sense of humor out of some of us.
:rolleyes:
Sorry Target, I just get tired of hearing people basicly tell me I'm a nimrod for being in the Military (even if it's in a round about way). It really helps me sleep at night knowing people think so highly of those who sacrifice many of the nicer things in life in order to help secure thier freedom to say things like that.
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
Actually Miko I've taught my child to question authority, not believe everything you're told and to think for herself and reach her own conclusions. She's not intrested in first person shooters anyway. I was more concerned for YOUR kids.
OK. In that case using "some of your children" instead of "our children" would have been more accurate.
Personally, I will try to make sure that my kid is willing and able to endure any amount of drill instructor abuse without any change to his personality. As for "march blindly off, without question," education in history usually takes care of that.
miko
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Originally posted by Tumor
Sorry Target, I just get tired of hearing people basicly tell me I'm a nimrod for being in the Military (even if it's in a round about way). It really helps me sleep at night knowing people think so highly of those who sacrifice many of the nicer things in life in order to help secure thier freedom to say things like that.
WOHA Tumor, where in the Hell did I say military people are nimrods?? Sheesh, the military today is a hell of a lot better educated, better trained and more professional than it was in my day. I respect anyone who's willing to make the sacrifices a military career requires.
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Originally posted by Tumor
Sorry Target, I just get tired of hearing people basicly tell me I'm a nimrod for being in the Military (even if it's in a round about way). It really helps me sleep at night knowing people think so highly of those who sacrifice many of the nicer things in life in order to help secure thier freedom to say things like that.
On a serious note:
The last thing I would ever want to do is make someone feel uncomfortable or even unappreciated for serving in the military. I thank all who are serving or have ever served for the sacrifices they have made. This is not a new (post 9-11) feeling for me. My father and 3 uncles are all WW2 vets, and I have always been teary-eyed and sappy as hell when it comes to patriotism. Believe me when I say the flag still flies in front of my house daily, and I think of those serving our Country every time I look at it.
Now get out of here ya knucklehead
:)
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Originally posted by Tumor
Sorry Target, I just get tired of hearing people basicly tell me I'm a nimrod for being in the Military (even if it's in a round about way). It really helps me sleep at night knowing people think so highly of those who sacrifice many of the nicer things in life in order to help secure thier freedom to say things like that.
Excuse me for barging in onto your discussion with Target, but I would say you are a nimrod if you are willing to sacrifice anything for freedom or benefit of anyone other then your friends and family and especially if you expect any gratitude from them.
Democracy and freedom are based on equal participation and responcibility and by doing more than your part you hurt the cause - maybe even more then by not doing enough.
If you fail to secure people's freedom, they may be enslaved but at least they will appreciate freedom and strive for it. If you sacrifice to ensure their freedom while they do not equally participate or even denigraye you, you will just make sure that they do not appreciate freedom at all. They may (arguably) not be enslaved at the moment but only because a suitable master did not happen to be available or interested.
Scatter bread around and the only thing you get is many fat rats.
If anything can improve the moral character of the ungratefull swine, it's not fighting their wars for them while being spit on but allowing them to experience defeat.
Army is a great way to prove/develop manly virtues, get free military education and learn essential skills that you may want to exercise in defence of your kin or even other people - if you deem that those other people worthy.
"Sacrifice" is what brainwashed loosers do - it is a dirty word, usually a covering a crime commited on someone's behalf - just like an act of heroism usually means someone else's screwup.
If you suffer for your children's future, it's not a sacrifice but a quite selfish act.
If everyone is equally and honestly contributing and you happened to buy a farm just because a chance was not on your side that time - you could hardly claim to be sacrificing. And if you are alive and claim only temporary loss of "nicer things in life" - that is not a sacrifice either because each has done his/her part in their time.
You only sacrifice if you do it while other people do not and enjoy the fruits of your efforts and risk. In that case you are not very smart if you do it willingly or take pride in that.
History of jewish uprising in Warsaw Getto has a very instructive tidbit in that regard - they started with killing their own "collaborators" before they went to kill any germans.
miko
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I agree fully. But isn't it easier to offer these young fellas a 0% loan for a brand new car? And, not that their interested at the time but when they get out they get a free collage education.
I think that works better.
WW2 vets had an even better deal -- interest free home loan-- That's how my dad bought the house I grew up in.
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I'm sorry you feel that way Miko.
Excuse me for barging in onto your discussion with Tumor, but I would say you are a nimrod if you are willing to sacrifice anything for freedom or benefit of anyone other then your friends and family and especially if you expect any gratitude from them.
So those people on flight 93, did they think they were only saving their families? I don't think so. I guess that makes them nimrods huh? Who benefited from their actions? (lets assume that they took action to stop the terrorists ok? I just have this feeling you are gonna ask for proof or some such nonsense.) Do you think they all calculated the amount of life insurance their kids would get before charging the terrorists?
People who do selfless acts of heroism should be given all the gratitude we can muster. People who serve in our military are always on the line to do selfless acts of heroism. They may not ever get the chance, but if the situation occurs we expect them to do a job that may cost them their life.
Miko2 wrote - "Sacrifice" is what brainwashed loosers do - it is a dirty word, usually a covering a crime commited on someone's behalf - just like an act of heroism usually means someone else's screwup.
How sad.
:(
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Originally posted by 10Bears
I agree fully. But isn't it easier to offer these young fellas a 0% loan for a brand new car? And, not that their interested at the time but when they get out they get a free collage education.
I think that works better.
US army already pays for your college education (or at least enough money to cover a decent college). 0% loan for a car may well be a good idea, depending on outcome and on what you do mean by "easier"?
0% loans means money - paying the interest for that guy. For a new car that would cost thousands of $$.
Speaking purely financially, you would have to compare how many new recruits a $1,000,000 spent on 0% loans would attract compared to the same $1,000,000 spent on developing a FPS game that promotes military service.
Even if financially it makes sense to go with monetary reward like college tuition and/or car loan, from military point of view the matters may look quite different.
Who would you rather have at your side in combat - a greedy guy who got into military service because he was swayed by monetary reward for the new car? A poor guy who only got into service to avoid having to take and repay college loans?
Or would you prefer a warior type male who found his calling through a well-designed game portraying military service as close as it can get while not actually serving?
From my personal experience, while it is nice to spend the boredom part of military service (99%) in a nice conversation with a college-bound intellectual car enthusiast, there is nothing like a warm feeling of having a murderous gun-loving, gunstock-notching bastard covering your back when the stuff really hits the fan...
miko
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I'm sorry you feel that way Miko.
...
How sad.
Your examples are not applicable to my case. You perceive that we are in argument but we really are not - at least not in this case. There is no symmetry in doing an (arguably) selfish act on a spur of the moment (and being capable of such act in the first place) and in declaring a readiness to do a selfish act in advance.
I am very respectfull of any man who served well - especialy if he volunteered.
I would be gratefull and respectfull to Tumor if he did sacrifice his life for a worthy cause.
But since he is alive and well I consider it fullish on his part to declare his willingness to sacrifice even though people do not appreciate it. From his post it is obvious that he consideres his sacrifice to be done for those people - otherwise he would not care of their calling him nimrod.
There is such thing as moral responcibility for supposedly good deeds. Any insurance company knows that by insuring you against a risk it actually makes you more likely to undertake risks - hence the necessary deductible. IMF does not refuse to forgive loans to the poor countries out of greed but because of doing otherwise would create expectations that you can borrow money for crazy schemes and also expect to be absolved from responcibility. Any parent knows that making life easy for a child is only spoiling him.
People on flight 93 did not have a chance to survive if they had abstained from action but had a slight chance to survive if they had managed to subdue four men armed with the boxcutters and then managed to keep the plane aloft. Their act was brave (as it apparently takes bravery in modern society to act to save your live while most people would meekly go towards sure death) and beneficial to us all.
At the same time for a person who has a choice (parachute and an ejector seat) it would be stupid to say in advance - "don't worry, when your stupid international involvements and lousy airline security endangers lifes of politicians most directly responcible (allegedely the plane was aiming for Washington)", I will not use my chance to jump out but will kill myself saving your sorry asses.
Flight 93 is the purest example of heroism being a reverse side of somebody's screwup. It's nice to have had that heroism but only an idiot would wish for more of it or rely on more of it saving us in the future.
Also, simple math will tell you that people who do selfless acts of heroism tend not to procreate as well as the cowards do. That is why they should supress their desire for sacrifice or at least not to let cowards know that there is heroism forthcoming. Then there is a greater chance that it will not be needed. How many people right now would be appealing for invasion into Iraq if they though "s#$t, I can get drafted..."?
I conversed with many soldiers in this country and others. Been a soldier myself. If you think that many of them do it out of love for the comfort-spoiled civilians who do not appreciate them, you are very mistaken. There are plenty of attractive sides - some real and some, granted, deceptive in military service and other "heroic" services like police, firefighting, etc. Some of them even include the "fame" and "mistique" associated with perceived risk (greatly overstated by the media and movies) that serve as great babe magnets. Many are real and deeply personal. Most of them cannot ever be comprehended by non-warrior type people. Desire to sacrifice for unappreciative strangers is way down on the list.
Any soldier who is still idealistic and is serving our of desire to sacrifice for his country is undoubtedly an ignorant dolt who missed his history lessons and does not know how the country stabbed the army in the back while it was fighting the spread of communism in Vietnam and then spit on returning veterans. I have no reason to believe it is any better today.
miko
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Miko, you are a marvel at erudition and logical thought. I assume that English is not your first language, which makes me marvel even more.
I think, however you may have switched the words "selfless" and "selfish". They mean exactly the opposite.
What is sad IMHO is the lack of feeling you seem to have for heroism. You are not logically wrong, just missing out on a wonderful human experience.
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sheesh....all this over a new game
how sad:(
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Yeah, pimpjoe, this new game looks more like open house then it does brain-washing.
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There's a two page article about this game in the new July PCGAMER... looks like half this game is just a virtual boot camp. Seems to be an Army adverisment then a game. But its made with the new Unreal Warfare Engine so it should be pretty. the article says "Intially, the game will be multiplayer-only.Its multiplayer map will be supported by government-financed servers running 24 hours a day". Wonder if those are gonna be the recruiters desktop pc's.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I think, however you may have switched the words "selfless" and "selfish". They mean exactly the opposite.
I ment that truly selfless behavior - heroic or not, is detrimental to propagation. So my use was probably correct.
What is sad IMHO is the lack of feeling you seem to have for heroism. You are not logically wrong, just missing out on a wonderful human experience.
I was raised and lived in Soviet Union for 25 years including some interesting military service in the 80s. The heroism theme was the most exploited trick in the communist propaganda arsenal. I think I got sencitised to it so that every time I hear a talk of "heroism" I suspect that there is either a scoundrel trying to manipulate people into doing his bidding, a scoundel trying to distract people from his screwups or a scoundrel that wants to sell you something. Most of the time I find that scoundrel right away.
I have very strong respect for capable people that can overcame their biological fear and do what they consider right. Todd Beemer is definitely one of them. But in a discussion of heroism he would much better illustrate my point than the opposite one.
If we consider weather he was a selfless hero by the standards of some, he would not make a good picture.
As far as I know he was not serving in the US Army at the time, have not done so before and did not intend to in the future. So any wish to protect innocent americans must have come to him (if it did) after his wife talked to him on the phone.
When four hijackers captured a plane with dozens of healthy men on board, they were content to let them do what they wanted rather then risk a nasty box-cutter cut. I bet that returning safely to his wife and children was more important to him than fighing for general american interests. In some cultures that would have been shamefull behavior but not in american one where people are taught to leave the matters to the "professional heroes". Only when his wife convinced him on the phone that he was surely going to die, he and his comrades chose to act.
If you cannot respect him without putting labels of "american hero" and "saver of innocent people" - too bad. I can respect him as a man, not as a silly label.
miko