Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on June 03, 2002, 12:59:50 AM
-
just a tad the way you tuffened up p38
this will give tbms weak guns a small chance at a defensive kill
currently tbm has same glass tail the p38 had
-
or make the P38 a bit softer, so Citabria is not that shocked about the normal endurance of the other planes :D
-
What we dont need is everyone petitioning HTC to change a plane to the way they want it, or think it should be. This becomes a never ending cycle with all kinds of "special interest" groups constantly hammering HTC to change this plane or that to be:
1) Faster
2) More maneuverable
3) More damage resistant
4) More lethal guns
etc etc etc.
This was a big problem in WB, all the demands/requests for changes to make a plane what someone wanted, not necessarily what it should be. Lets not start this cycle here in AH.
Nothing personal Cit, just saw it too many times in WB and it was sickening.
dago
-
I agree, the TBM needs it horizontal stabilizer strengthened.
-
Originally posted by Dago
What we dont need is everyone petitioning HTC to change a plane to the way they want it, or think it should be. This becomes a never ending cycle with all kinds of "special interest" groups constantly hammering HTC to change this plane or that to be:
1) Faster
2) More maneuverable
3) More damage resistant
4) More lethal guns
etc etc etc.
This was a big problem in WB, all the demands/requests for changes to make a plane what someone wanted, not necessarily what it should be. Lets not start this cycle here in AH.
Nothing personal Cit, just saw it too many times in WB and it was sickening.
dago
However, in this case Fester's absolutely correct. When we examine the historical record, we find that the TBF/TBM was one of the most durable single-engine aircraft of the war. Tougher than the F6F. As it stands, a single hit the to tail can cause its loss. It needs a little work.
My regards,
Widewing
-
Guns lethality overall is a bit overdone from a gameplay perspective but hey! everyone wants insta-kills and its fun anyways so who cares.
:)
Relax, its just a game
-
"What we dont need is everyone petitioning HTC to change a plane to the way they want it"
I agree, plane strength should be toughened based upon who is flying it.
So HT please, when I fly a plane give it a multipler of x10 to toughness. That way as I move from plane to plane, they are all tougher.
Thanks
And while you're at it re-do the damage model - but wait, you're already doing that in v1.10 - as you said in MA a few weeks ago.
never mind.
-
Originally posted by Widewing
However, in this case Fester's absolutely correct. When we examine the historical record, we find that the TBF/TBM was one of the most durable single-engine aircraft of the war. Tougher than the F6F. As it stands, a single hit the to tail can cause its loss. It needs a little work.
My regards,
Widewing
It was durable in the PTO ... facing Japanes planes
In the MA this plane can face the Typhoon and her 4 hiszooka ,)
-
The damage modelling is being redone???
HT said so in the MA??
When?? How??
:confused:
-
what Dago said. I'll try and beat Hooligan to it... "Bring some facts"
Tumor
-
5 out of 6 TBM's that I've killed lost thier tail.
Worth asking them to take another look anyway.
-
Originally posted by Citabria
just a tad the way you tuffened up p38
this will give tbms weak guns a small chance at a defensive kill
currently tbm has same glass tail the p38 had
I agree. BTW, I love using the TBM as a fighter. Likewise for the IL-2. No one expects to see an IL-2 roll in on their 6, and when one does, most simply try to out-turn it. Big mistake. :eek:
You can't stay engaged for long, as the lack of speed will eventually cost you. However, you can always face-shoot everything in sight. :D Believe me, not much face-shoots like those 23mm on the Stormovik, and not much pisses off the dweebs as much as being HO'd by a flying tank, that shrugs off hits like no other.
My regards,
Widewing
-
Originally posted by straffo
It was durable in the PTO ... facing Japanes planes
In the MA this plane can face the Typhoon and her 4 hiszooka ,)
Japanese aircraft rarely got near the TBMs. Its resistance to enemy triple A is well recognized. These monsters routinely returned from strikes after absorbing hits from large caliber anti-aircraft guns. A brief look at some of the battle damage reports from the various VT squadrons will leave one breathless. These were rugged birds, rarely going down unless the engine was hit.
I have lost several TBMs where the tail fell off from minor hits. Even lost the tail on an HO! Explain that one, somebody.
My regards,
Widewing
-
"I have lost several TBMs where the tail fell off from minor hits. Even lost the tail on an HO! Explain that one, somebody."
Easy. Bullet gets deflected by propellor, but then the TBM's magnetic field pulls it back in, hitting the rear of the plane and thus, snapping tail out. ;)
-
Tac,
You're also forgetting the terrellian effect from the warp coil which causes near supersonice armor percing bullets to enter hyper space momentarily, this allows them to pass through the fuselage with out causing damage. But since the hyper-space effect is only temporary, they exit hyperspace in the tail section, thus causing catostrophic damage as these two masses - tail and bullets - try to occupy the same space and time.
-
5 out of 6 TBM's that I've killed lost thier tail.
Just curious, how many of these 6 were you shooting from behind? (where the tail is located)
Dago
-
TBM should be tougher I think. Was watching a show on Channel 22 (MSNBC), and they did a special on a TBM squad.
The tail gunner (50 cal) of a TBM came on and said....
"Two zeke's bounced us, and i started shooting. I hit one, and it started smoking, and it turned back. I hit the other a few times and it also turned back. We had been damaged badly, and our other gunner was dead, it was amazing how the plane was still flying. Moments later two more zeke's bounced us, they opened up with there guns, and i opened up with my gun. We both scored many hits, but i ran out of ammo. I took out my .45 pistol, and fired, bang, bang, bang. Killed the piolt of the zeke, and watched as he went down. Then, reloaded, and fired the entire clip into the second zeke, killed the piolt too."
Now, in order to kill the piolt with a pistol, that zeke had to be pretty close. Now that TBM took a lot, and i mean a lot of punishment. I mean, 4 zeke's ammo was in that 1 TBM, and it was still flying.
Well, i forgot to tape this, but i am sure it will be on again soon. I have a video cap. card, and i will post this once I see it again.
-
Originally posted by fdiron
I agree, the TBM needs it horizontal stabilizer strengthened.
because?
a) you have read some testimonies about the strenghth of the tail in accounts by WW2 pilots?
b) you have evidence to show the current model is bugged?
c) you just 'think' it should be tougher?
Im betting its c, in which case HTC will no doubt strenghten it if theres enough complaints.The p38 is without doubt one of the toughest planes in the game now and as far as i can see its because people complained it was a bit weak in the tail.I agreed it was weak then but after it was changed? seemed way too strong.Now if you shoot one your first good burst wont take a wing off ever, it seems to hole a fuel tank then damage an engine or two before the wings break or anyhing else.Seems like theres a sort of safety mechanism for them if you ask me.Like htc has made sure it gets damaged to a greater extent before any vital part is destroyed but of course this is only what i 'think' is happening.everytime i think ive put enough bullets in them they throw some smoke but keep flying.
then again whats the difference between this and 'thinking' the TBM's tail is weaker than the real thing?
To be honest ive read about P47s taking excessive damge and still flying, same for many accounts on the 190. The hurricane was noted for its durability early in the war, Ive certainly read many accounts of bullets bouncing off the Il2.The F4u is mentioned for its excellent strength and thus its suitability for heavy carrier work.Ive never seen much about the TBM at all.Maybe it should be tougher ? who knows?
people that ask for changes should at least post an excerpt from a book or something.
I think if youre going to toughen up the TBM then surely the IL2 should also be looked into? and for that matter the 190.
still they aint american are they ;) hehe
-
I took out my .45 pistol, and fired, bang, bang, bang. Killed the piolt of the zeke, and watched as he went down. Then, reloaded, and fired the entire clip into the second zeke, killed the piolt too."
I hope he started that story with "and this is no shxt!"
because people complained it was a bit weak in the tail.
Yup, soon you have an accelerating cycle of complaints/model changes. I realize there are times when something isnt right and needs to be brought to HTCs attention, I just hope they tread carefully about changing aircraft/game modeling to suit small groups. To HT and Pyros credit, I am sure they will be careful. I hope so, the constant messing around about killed WB in my view late in my WB playing days.
dago
-
How does Fetserbra get away with these posts without being flamed?..:confused:
-
Originally posted by Heinkel
"... I took out my .45 pistol, and fired, bang, bang, bang. Killed the piolt of the zeke, and watched as he went down. Then, reloaded, and fired the entire clip into the second zeke, killed the piolt too." ...
(http://www.plauder-smilies.de/happy/roflmao.gif) I said it many times before and I do it again!
I want my M1911A2 modeled in AH! 1 clip to kill a plane... thats 7 slow and heavy rounds of lead... And now tell me something about lazer firing insta-killing hizookas I really need another good laugh (http://www.plauder-smilies.de/smokin.gif)
-
When do we get 45's for us to throw at the enemy when they get to within 50 ft?:D
-
Dago, were you a tail gunner of a TBM durning WWII? I think he know's what he is talking about. As i said, when it is on again, I will record and post it.
-
"How does Fetserbra get away with these posts without being flamed?.."
Because those who flame him go DOWN in flames in the MA.
MWAHAHAHA
-
And one more thing! He shot his entire ammo at the 2 planes from his .50 M2 or whatever and didnt kill him... And then he took his M1911 and shot 7 rounds and killed him... eee well... nooo... Why he did not killed the pilot of the zeke with the .50 caliber? Anyway I still think that .45ACP lacks the kinetic energy to do any greater damage to an airplane and int the time being he prolly had softballs noncased ammo... Even FMJ would have had problems going through IMHO (got one M1911 at home so I think i know what gun Im talking about...)
Why the zekes didnt engaged them... why they were flying 50 feets away not shooting? Im not saying this story is hoax I just say its highly unlikely...
-
Offered in evidence is the Japanese reaction to the head-on pass. They don't like it and nine out of 10 will break first, even before they are in range. To be sure, the head-on task cannot be recommended when flying a plane that has little armament, no convergence of lines of fire, and light armor, but what about this shout of "Banzai" and the suicide crash? Nothing about it because the Japanese aren’t living up toor dying for their propaganda. Instead they will break from the head-on pass in a vertical bank and try to come around for a tail attack.
...
It is a seeming contradiction to say that Japanese gunnery is good, but results don't show it. The discrepancy lies in the poor quality of the guns and the lack of convergence, factors which reduce the theoretical fire-power and which have saved many of our pilots from being hit when the Japanese gunnery had his lead and timing absolutely right. Don't underestimate Japanese gunnery!
-
Dago, were you a tail gunner of a TBM durning WWII? I think he know's what he is talking about. As i said, when it is on again, I will record and
No, but I wouldnt accept as fact anything anyone said blindly. Especially when someone claims to kill two zeros with a .45 from a bouncing TBM. Gee, amazing that he could hit the pilots with a .45 when the Zeros with multiple machine guns couldnt hit him. Amazing. Of course, there never has been a recorded case of a veteran telling an exaggerated tail.
BTW, you might want to check out this page.
http://www.homeofheroes.com/a_homepage/community/imposters/
and maybe this one
http://www.phonyveterans.com/
Yeah, it might have happened, funny though that such an amazing story hasn't been told a million times.
Dago
-
The show will be on again in Late June, just checked the website for MSNBC. I will post the film clip of the Gunner's statemnt once it is on again, then you will believe me! :D
-
Dago that second link of yours is... well, not exactly legal I think.
That guy may flame and insult the #@# bastards that impersonate the real veterans, but he's also putting up their photo and social security numbers. Isnt that illegal?
-
Isnt that illegal?
Beats me, the point I was making was that some times claims made might not be true, or at least exaggerated.
CNN told the "real truth" about some SOG soldiers in Vietnam and Laos (Opeeration Tailwind)who used sarin gas on the enemy and "American Defectors". Only fly in the ointment to that was it was all false.
Dont believe all you hear, dont believe all you read. Maybe the guy did shoot down 2 Zeros with a pistol in flight, in a bouncing aircraft, with a low velocity pistol round while traveling over 200mph against fighters doing probably in excess of 300mph. Just allow me my healthy dose of skeptism.
Dago
-
Woah! read this one (http://www.phonyveterans.com/ODell.html)
-
Yeah.. and while you're at it... toughen up the F6F-5. The other night a Spit I managed to knock one of my ailerons off after a scant 500 pings. I didn't even know he was there until I heard the damage. I was too busy trying to figure out what that ticking noise was.
AKDejaVu
-
Data to prove it is necessary? :rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by Widewing
Japanese aircraft rarely got near the TBMs. Its resistance to enemy triple A is well recognized. These monsters routinely returned from strikes after absorbing hits from large caliber anti-aircraft guns. A brief look at some of the battle damage reports from the various VT squadrons will leave one breathless. These were rugged birds, rarely going down unless the engine was hit.
I have lost several TBMs where the tail fell off from minor hits. Even lost the tail on an HO! Explain that one, somebody.
My regards,
Widewing
I was making a guess as seen in the folowing pic it's a great bird
-
"How does Fetserbra get away with these posts without being flamed?.."
Flame away, because those who don't flame at him go down in flames in the MA too :D