Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: ygsmilo on June 04, 2002, 05:10:08 PM
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Ok, the wife told me to buy my fathers day gift.
I need a new Hotas to go with the new system.
I have looked at both and they look good, I have CH pro pedals and they have been a good product.
I can get the CH stuff for about $80 less, but money is not the issue.
What are the differences between the 2 ?
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Never had the Cougar, I have the CH products stuff. For me, the one advantage the CH Pro-Throttle has is that the movement is straight forward and back rather than around an axis. I used to have a Saitek and that throttle moved around an axis as well. Because it flexed my wrist a bit AND because I work the views with my throttle thumb AND because I have some trouble with tendonitus anyway, the Saitek throttle caused problems after a bit. I assume the Cougar would as well.
I am kind of jealous of the twisty pots on the Cougar throttle though...
Oh, and of course, the Cougar is metal while the CH is very tuff plastic.
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Simply no comparison. If you can afford it, there's just no reason not to have a Cougar. In fact, even if you have to give up eating for a month, the Cougar is still worth every penny.
I started long ago with TM stuff. Moved to CH USB gear just for the convenience of USB. Am now just changing over to a Cougar. The CH Pro stuff is nice, but not even equal to my old TM. And not at all in the same leage as the new Cougar.
The programability of the TM is just amazing. Light years beyond the CH products.
And the feel! All metal. Heavy. Sturdy. Realistic. Adjustible throttle detents for idle & afterburner/WEP. Personally, I think the arced movement of the throttle is a BIG bonus. They're that way in the real planes so that pilot can tell their throttle position by height and distance. I HATE the flat movement of my CH.
The one downfall of the Cougar at the moment is that it doesn't come with rudders. It has a 15-pin gameport input for pedals, so you can plug in TM Elites, TM RCS, CH regular pedals, etc. The toe brakes don't work on the CH's though (there's a small wiring hack that you can do if you have some skills). TM will soon be releasing their own pedals with toe brakes. CH USB pedals will also work right alongside the Cougar in programs that accept multiple controllers. Aces High, IL2, WWII Online, etc. No joy with Falcon 4 though. You gotta have gameport rudders plugged into the Cougar for that.
D
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I've used CH fighterstick / Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals for years. But Doberman is correct: having recently bought a Cougar there really is no comparison, the TM product is way ahead in all respects. Not to say CH is bad of course, just that the Cougar really is something special.
Vladd
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I've been a CH Products guy for years, using my trusty Pro Throttle USB, Combatstick USB and Pro Pedals USB. I even switched to the Saitek X45 last year after I won it at the con. I like both systems, really, but my Cougar arrived yesterday and there is no comparison in construction and quality.
The CH Products and Saitek controllers are fine, nothing wrong with them at all. But IMO the extra money is well spent on upgrading to the Cougar.
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In the last couple of years I've used a TM FLCS/TQS, a CH Force FX/Pro Throttle combo, a Saitek X36 USB and a MS Sidewinder FF2. I now have a Cougar and it beats all those other sticks hands down.
Build wise nothing beats the Cougar's all metal construction, the stick, base and all the buttons and hat switches are metal. The unit feels like you could bash nails in with it and then go flying. The only thing IMHO that comes close to Thrustmasters build quality is CH's gear. Saitek is cheap and cheerful but thats it. I often found myself a bit concerned I'd break the X36 because it felt so flimsy but apart from that it was a decent stick for the price. One thing I disliked about the CH throttle was its sliding back and fore movement. It was very loose and as I map bomber commands to it I found myself often adjusting throttle when trying to input commands. I much preferred the arc movement of the X36 and the Cougar throttle.
Programmability...well nothing even touches the Cougar in this department IMHO. The FOXY software is a joy to use and James Hallows really did Thrustmaster proud with this superb piece of coding. I never needed the manual for the first couple of days as I made profiles for the sims I play. Following the tutorials meant I had useable profiles in no time at all and I only used the manual to explain some of the more technical aspects of programming the Cougar. Saitek's SGE and CH's Speedkey's are nice and user friendly but don't touch FOXY in terms of features and programmabilty. If you do get a Cougar don't be put off because it does'nt have a WYSIWYG interface like the SGE and Speedkeys, follow the tutorials and you'll have no problems. Of course you could download a ready made profile and I have one here (http://www.no9squadron.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=4) complete with a graphical overlay explaining the button layout.
If you buy anything else and then later get to try a Cougar you'll be gutted you never bought one for yourself. If you got the money then do it you won't be dissapointed.
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Ok I gotta call roadkill here :p
I know you Cougar guys gotta convince yourself that it was worth all the cash with all this hoorah crap, but come on ;)
While I have no doubt that the all metal Cougar is very nice, one of you show me a CH stick that you broke.
Yes they're plastic, but very very tough.
And programming? come on guys, be realistic. Speedkeys for the older non-usb CH products was very easy and as versatile as you needed (much easier to program than the pre-Cougar TM stuff), and the new CH USB programming utility is just as good or even better. So to say that the Cougar is untouchable in programability, is dumb because the CH gear does the exact same stuff.
Most of the statements above are true if your comparing the Cougar to a Sidewinder or a Saitek, but the comparison to the CH gear is not accurate. The two products are very similar.
And again if your gonna be honest, at least mention the fact that alot of Cougar owners are very unhappy about the overly stiff springs, and the inability to get smooth control near the break point for this reason.
banana, if you wanna get rid of the USB CH stuff you got last year, bring it with you to the Con and make me a deal. :) I'll take it, and it sounds like you don't need it anymore. Email me, and we'll negotiate a price :)
Just a dissenting opinon. :p
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Can you program any of the hat switches to be another axis like the Cougar? can you program the axis while using the stick in a sim to make them sensitive/less sensitive as required? can you logically program a set of switches so that you can program failsafe's IE you need to press one button then another to activate a command? (just the tip of the iceberg of logical programming) Can you program any of the axis to be both analogue and digital at the same time? ie program the end of the throttle travel to enable WEP and yet still have the throttle register 0-100% up to the point you program the WEP point? (think along the lines of a WW2 pilot pushing the throttle through the wire to get wep) can you program your stick to mimic the mouse? (useful not only for AH view control but also IL-2, Flanker 2 and others) can you adjust the tension of your throttle to stop it moving while you operate the buttons? (very annoying when trying to fly close formation) Does the throttle have rotaries for fine control of control surfaces, zoom etc? (even Saitek's X36 has this)
Thats just stuff off the top of my head for programming theCougar, I myself have just scratched the surface of programming my Cougar. I've tried the rest and nothing does come close.
I liked the CH gear I had but it did have a few niggling problems, build quality was only second the TM IMO but lets face it CH has stood still for the last 5 years in their designs (even TM has improved upon its close approximation of a real F16 stick) All they have done is add USB plugs to their gear. TM have improved the resolution of their sticks, the mouse control and the programmability quite considerably not to mention taking the build quality to another level.
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My point though Revvin, is that while I'm sure the Cougar is a fine stick, people are only yelling out its good points, but totally ignoring its weak points.
And most of the things you mentioned I believe are possible in the CH programming. Not to mention that the CH programming tool is a graphical interface, while its my understanding that the Cougar is not? Am I incorrect there?
While I undestand you guys are enjoying your sticks, at least try to do an honest assesment and give the bad as well as the good. :)
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The Cougar has weak points? Hmmmmmmmmmm.
Well, lessee. I did mention that USB pedals can't interface directly with it. I suppose that IS a weak point at the moment if you're flying a sim that can't take input from more than 1 controller. All of the newer ones do though. The only sim I still fly that doesn't is Falcon 4. TM should soon be releasing their own pedals though, which will rectify that problem. I can't plug my USB pedals into my older TM or CH gear either. Not that big a deal.
Stiff springs? Sounds like a weak point in the user to me. Not the stick. It's not as stiff as the TM F-22 was. Personally, I've got no problem with break points, and the stronger springs keeps me from overcontrolling. My CH Fighterstick USB is waaaaaaaaay too light for my tastes. Is that a weak point of the CH? No, it's just a point.
Programming? Verm, you simply don't know what you're talking about here. Believe me, the Cougar is light years ahead of the CH gear in programmability. As far as CH is ahead of the 2 button stick I had a decade ago, TM is ahead of CH. While it's certainly not necessary (expecially in a game with relativley few controls like AH), having those programming abilities is a plus. Flying Falcon 4 with a great stick program is like magic. There's a full featured programming tool on the installation disk that's usable by everyone from experienced TM programmers down to the newest simmer who needs a GUI.
There have been some apparant Quality Control issues. Reports of some misaligned Speed Brake toggles which have led to some broken switches, and what seemed to have been a batch of bad paint. Unfrotunatly, these things happen, even during production of a pricy product. In fact, my CH USB Throttle came with a non-working button that I had to crack the case open to repair. If they were all falling apart, this might be more of an issue. But the # of folks who've reported problems is very small.
Would I like to see some changes in the Cougar? Weeeeellllllllll ... sorta. I like the buttons under the pinky, ring & middle finger of my left hand on the CH Throttle. I'd sure like to have them on the TM. But the Cougar is designed on the real life F-16 controls, which don't have these buttons. I don't really see this as a down point, just a design detail that I hafta adapt to.
I have the feeling that this discussion will turn out like all the PC vs. Mac / Playstation vs. X-Box / Ford vs. Chevy / Harley Davidson vs. Quality motorcycle arguments that have been going on since time immemorial.
It seems to come down to something like jealousy or at least a need for justifying the one you have.
I don't have that problem. I have 'em both (and have had pretty much all of the major flight sim products produced by both companies in the last decade). Price isn't a point here at all, as I paid roughly $300 for my full CH USB setup and will pay not too much over that when the TM rudder is added into the price of the Cougar. I don't feel a need to justify one over the other. I can use whichever one I feel is the better.
That is the Thrustmaster Cougar. CH Products USB flight controls are great, no doubt about it. They'll do the job and do it well. The Cougar just does it better.
D
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Verm have you ever used a Cougar or the programming software? if not then I don't know how you can comment on it. I've used speedkeys and although the software has been updated the physical buttons and layout have not so you have no rotaries, last time I checked you could not map the axis to be both digital and analogue at the same time and you certainly could not reprogram the axis on the fly with the touch of a button.
I have given an honest opinion based on my use of other sticks which I listed in my original post and I fail to see how in your words you can give one when you've never used a Cougar.
Weak points?........well I've sat here now for a few mins, drank a cup of tea and thought about it and thats got to say something for the stick. After a lot of thought the speedbrake button is perhaps a little stiff although mine has bedded in nicely now. I did have the TM Elite pedals dissapear sometimes on boot up but thats been fixed in the latest firmware released. Apart from that I'm happy and can't think of anything else. Of course others have had problems, its mass produced like anything else and I've seen friends buy CH, MS and Saitek sticks that did'nt work. My first Cougar arrived not working (possibly due to handling in transit) it certainly would'nt be the first component I've had thats faulty.
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IMO the CH Throttle is better setup for games as it has more buttons and hats that are placed in good easy to use postions .
THAT said , the CH stick are not even close to ease of use of the cougar stick ( at least with the f22 springs installed as mine is)
Why ? With CH you get one pov hat thats IMO and many others that is just too high up to be easy to reach .
Now with Foxy , tm programing in just three days of ownership I have changed the Hat1 POV to Hat2 and made Hat1 POV a four way hat with directx inputs . Any of the hats on the cougar can be done in the same way . Why and hell CH did not do this has me baffeled , as I would have bought a CH again if I could have reached the damn POV hat .
If I had my wish llst I would love the CH throttle with two trim wheels , a cougar stick top mounted on a FFB2 base . With the foxy programing .
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Wha? CH Fighterstick USB has 4 hats. Pro Throttle USB has 4 hats. And you don't have enough hats?
Some of the programming stuff Revvin pointed out is beyond the CH Control Manager's abilities, but most of it is easily done with the CH stuff. The only one that excites me is having WEP on the throttle detent. Would be cool to be able to "break the wire". :)
If you like metal stuff and stiff springs, the TM stuff is for you.
I'm definitely going to wait and see on reliability and durability though. Anything that's a brand new design is going to have some issues when the first batch hits the streets, even if they are small issues.
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Just way one month ....
when they will see their Coogar become loose ... we will hear a lot of scream :(
Sorry guys the cougar is a nice stick but cannot handle a WWII sim reliabli
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Originally posted by straffo
Just way one month ....
when they will see their Coogar become loose ... we will hear a lot of scream :(
Sorry guys the cougar is a nice stick but cannot handle a WWII sim reliabli
Are you drunk straffo?
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no I was having one ... (back to X36 because of feeling)
And I've several friend who have the same troubles :(
as it will happen sooner or later : http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/files/AxisPlaybeta1.zip
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I've had mine about a month now and used it every day, mostly playing Aces High but also playing sims like IL-2 WW2OL and Falcon4.0 and the Cougar has not become 'loose' and its had a good workout. As to going back to an X36...sorry but that would be a last resort for me as the Saitek stick I had was the worst out of all the sticks I've owned for being loose around the centre. The CH and TM sticks I had have less play around the centre.
I have nothing against CH, as I said above I liked my old CH setup apart from a few niggles but their design's have stayed the same for too long. They need to start looking at stuff like rotaries which even Saitek have, they are great for inputting trim control in other sims (only AH has CT) they need to have lockable buttons to add more functions to the other buttons (like the TQS dogfight switch for instance). CH built quality IMO is second only to TM but for me they've sat on their laurels for too long.
Oh and Straffo do a search on Saitek and you'll find plenty of complaints on other boards about the weird way the centre spring returns to centre and the way the axis movement is not smooth which results in bad gunnery, my XO has one and has had to take it apart to try and solve the problem.
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I was not trying to bash the cougar ...
It just didn't meet my expectation concerning feeling (
Concening the loose part I hope to be use right word (this word seams to be the right translation in my dictionnary :)) but when the head of your stick have 1 centimeter dead band it just don't feel right for me ... especially when you've spent about 400 € in it ...
I doubt Rolls Royce have this problem with their cars ..
btw the craptek just appear to work for me(*) ... that's all I need ...
I'm just jealous of the foxy prog :) but using hazardscript it'ok for my needs
(*) I know that it's not the case for all people my 1st X36 throttle broke 1 month after my purchase 3,5 year ago ...
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Straffo> That's been part of the problem, people have been taking that measurement from different places hence the large differences reported, to get the most accurate measurement unscrew the handle from the base and take the measurement from the connector stem on the base.
The gameport X36 had lots of problems so I have read but the USB ones were much better. At first I thought the X36 was quite nice and good quality for the cheap price but after a short while the play around the centre just became too much for me. It's a shame Saitek have let down their customers with the lack of Win XP support, I can't believe they would be so stupid but at least the community managed to sort something out. When I first tried the SGE software I thought it was a great idea to have it all integrated into explorer but soon after my system became a little unstable and would crash while using explorer. While I could'nt prove for certain it was the SGE software it was the last thing I installed onto a pretty reliable system up to that point.
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As I said before, I loved my CH gear, so you won't find me bashing it at all. But Revvin is correct. The FOXY programming application that comes with the Cougar is outstanding. It has these tutorials that walk you through how to do everything, and they are a huge help in getting you to understand how the programming works. The possibilities in programming the Cougar truly boggles the mind. One great feature for me is being able to set whichever hat I want to be the POV hat #1, which is in my case hat #3. It works best for my smaller hands.
I've only had my Cougar for a day, and I will admit that I think the springs are really stiff. But since the springs on the Saitek X45 and the Combatstick are so wimpy, I guess anything would feel stiff in comparison.
Verm, I'm going to keep the CH gear as a backup for the Cougar, but I know of an X45 system I can sell you for cheap. :)
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Verm:
I'm with you re: my appreciation for CH products. My next setup will be the USB fighterstick and pro-throttle, they cost less than the cougar and from what I know are prolly just as reliable. Now, I know folks who have just gotten Cougars, at least one of them is an Old TM user. In that way I think there is a natural attraction for him. Now because I am a CH guy, I swear by their stuff, and have had my gear for years now. My interest is in cost, efficiency and ease of use. I figure I will get that and then some from the latest CH USB stuff for less. ;)
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Can't imagine needing more programability than the CH USB stuff has. Of course, I just use it for AH.
(banana, any hat can be programmed to be POV, with Speedkeys or Control Manager.)
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Originally posted by Vermillion
And again if your gonna be honest, at least mention the fact that alot of Cougar owners are very unhappy about the overly stiff springs, and the inability to get smooth control near the break point for this reason.
I keep hearing this about stiff springs, but quite honestly I don't think they are that bad! Heck if I can get used to them, surely you big men can! ;) I find the stick to be extremely smooth and can't fault the whole HOTAS at all.
I used to have an all CH setup too until I got the Cougar, but as I now use Windows XP, I had to have a separate partition with Windows 98 on it just to use Speedkeys! CH's answer to that problem is to buy the USB versions of the setup - not very helpful!
Anyway, time for my daily Cougar exercises in the MA! :D
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Originally posted by Revvin
Straffo> That's been part of the problem, people have been taking that measurement from different places hence the large differences reported, to get the most accurate measurement unscrew the handle from the base and take the measurement from the connector stem on the base.
I can't figure thse guys who are moaning about 1mm of free play. My Cougar had about that much outta the box. My CH Fighterstick USB was close to 4mm out of the box. I've got an unused Combat stick with even more than that. Every Siatek stick I've ever used has had a HUGE amount. And absolutely none of that free play in the sticks has ever had any affect on my flying at all. Sounds like people just looking for something to complain about.
As far as price goes, I'm not seeing the big CH advantage here. My CH USB stick/throttle/rudder setup cost me roughly $315. When I add the rudders into my Cougar, it's not gonna come up to much more than that.
popeye, there are some people who can't imagine ever driving above the speed limit. Does that make a Ford Pinto as good a car as a Ferrari Spyder?
D
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I miss the action of my F22...much stiffer and more smooth through the entire axis of movement in each direction. Cougar gives a much better response in AH tho'.
I like the pointless and classic "my stick is better than yours" arguments, keep it going! :D
SOB
PS...Funked and Verm like CH because they're used to limp sticks!
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Good lord....next we'll all be posting pictures of our noodlees and arguing the merits of fat, skinny, long short, et al.....
Really, there are some good points (and bad) about BOTH setups....but MOST of the stuff some of you are arguing is OPINION items. Weak springs, strong springs...geez...whatever floats your boat. I personally like the weaker springs of the CH stuff. (and before anyone cries foul, yes, I've owned TM sticks...I do NOT like their stiff springs)....but does that make the CH stuff better or worse? Neither really.
Can program digital and analog for one button simultaneously. While I am sure there really is some sort of use for this (not that I can think of any), it does remind me a lot of the petty political bickering that I see everyday at work and is to some degree representational of "normal" life in America (LOL!)...my widget X can do more than your widget y. Come on people. Get real. I'm as much a techno gadget freak as any before me, but frankly I've got gadgets and toys that have functions on them I have no fediddleing clue what they are for or when or of I would ever need or use them...but hey, they are there...it must be better, right?
But the cougar is more real to life of the F-16 stick and throttle....well, la tee fediddleing da....and this affects me how? The way I see it, the design is a big flaw....the only real problem is the U.S. Government hasn't called me to design a stick for them yet. What I really mean is, well.....so what? But hey, if absolute realism in shape and design are your priorities, then great, have at it. But that doesn't make it better....it makes it better for YOU (and that's really the key to it all).
Bottom line is simply this: The price for the Cougar and the CH setups is nearly the same. Both setups are excellent and both work well. It literally boils down to personal tastes. Either setup will make you smile..plain and simple.
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Booo Warp! I demand you edit your post immediately...this could've turned out to be a fun thread to read! :D
SOB
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Well....OK SOB, if you insist..........
Look, all you dork wanking, pilot wannabe's that think your phallic replacement...er, cougar sticks are better because they cause sensations in your groin (and god knows that's the only time it happens to you tards), then you're all a bunch of ignorant clueless neanderthals.
Any moron with half a brain synapse KNOWS that CH is the king of controllers....now, take your stiff springed, cast pot metal clunkers with the breaking switches and the laundry list of "needed fixes" and go sit in the corner, shutup and color.
(oh, and it's BYOC too! (Bring Your Own Crayolas))...
Whew.......how's that SOB? Think it might stir something up?
Sorry guys...I had a...erm...request.... lol.......
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Originally posted by Doberman
I can't figure thse guys who are moaning about 1mm of free play. My Cougar had about that much outta the box. My CH Fighterstick USB was close to 4mm out of the box. I've got an unused Combat stick with even more than that. Every Siatek stick I've ever used has had a HUGE amount. And absolutely none of that free play in the sticks has ever had any affect on my flying at all. Sounds like people just looking for something to complain about.
Firstly it's not 1 but 5 mm on the Y axis and secondly my craptek didn't have any free play ... and the transition was so hard that I gived up ...
And lastly I've not afforded a rolls to have what I consider being a Yugo
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Ok, after getting my Cougar setup just the way I want it, I took it out for a spin last night online. All I can say is: WOW! This is by far the best HOTAS I've ever owned. The springs are stiff, yes, but easy to get used to. The crisp response and smooth control has won me over completely.
One last thing I'm going to do is remove the detents from the throttle. I prefer a smooth action in my throttle, so this little operation will complete my Cougar configuration.
Anyone who has been waiting on the sidelines, I can heartily recommend the Cougar HOTAS without reserve!
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Reminds me of the old days on usenet. Ah... glad to see TM back in he thick of things.
The Cougar is a very nice stick and worth what I paid for it.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKWarp
Any moron with half a brain synapse KNOWS that CH is the king of controllers....now, take your stiff springed, cast pot metal clunkers with the breaking switches and the laundry list of "needed fixes" and go sit in the corner, shutup and color.
(oh, and it's BYOC too! (Bring Your Own Crayolas))...
Whew.......how's that SOB? Think it might stir something up?
NOW you're talking! :D
SOB
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LOL SOB & Warp
FWIW I'm going to buy one after you metal phallus worshippers complete the paid beta program and the prices come down a bit. The throttle detent thingy is dead sexy.
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Funked, here's a little handy URL to keep for when you get your Cougar. It's a "how to" guide for adjusting the detents on the throttle.
http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19578&highlight=detent
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Ever lose a big post and curse like hell ???
I did.
So the shorter version.
Cougar springs to stiff for accurate and precise control near centres or crossing from 1 to 2 springs in tension ie diagonals.
Motorcycle mechanic i push , lift etc 400 + lb motorcycles all day everyday I am neither weak nor small at 240lbs.
Flossy comment its ok and not too stiff as she can use it, i will ignore as Flossy does not fly fighters and therefore will not be hanging on that stick tension for hours fighting and trying to line up shots.
Oh and Flossy I still admire and respect you for all you do in AH especially as your a Brit too :) Btw suck it up Argies :)
Doberman was vocal saying complaint of strong springs are in fact a weak user, BULLCRAP its a complaint of lack of accurate and precise control as posted above.
Now I believe your average Hit rate is about 3.5% thats THREE POINT FIVE PERCENT are you happy with that ???
Before i got the cougar my hit rate was 16%, the month i purchased it in the last week my hit rate was so bad the monthly total dropped to less than 10% I am not happy with that.
Start of this month it was around the 2% mark after some alterations to my $380 Cougar, yup had to alter it my Cougar now feels much better and hit rate 8% and still going up i hope.
Now you could use the "Foxy's Windows Joystick Analyser" set it to accurate and with one hand on your cougar draw the best circle you can using half the screen width it is not likely to be pretty, but it should show where the control accuracy problems are, or of course play the ostrich and pretend they dont exist and be happy with a 3.5% hit rate.
Having gone through a Hate my Cougar stage, I will say this its extremely well made and the best stick i have ever owned and the only problem i had was with the excessive and un-needed in my opinion spring tension.
So if your thinking of purchasing one just be aware you may or may not like them springs, personal preference i guess.
In case anybody is interested cure for mine was take throttle base off, grab each end of springs in pliers at same time, grip like hell and push down hard thereby weakening the tension. Now when i hold stick so handle is horizontal it will go full deflection under the weight of the handle alone and that handle is surprisingly heavy if you remove it.
And it still positively returns to an exact centre when upright but is far more precise and accurate anywhere near centres and in diagonals.
As always the above is MY opinion and obviously others differ, but even if like me and others you dont like the spring tension its not a big problem at all 20 mins max to cure and you have one helluva Hotas either way.
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Originally posted by funkedup
LOL SOB & Warp
FWIW I'm going to buy one after you metal phallus worshippers complete the paid beta program and the prices come down a bit. The throttle detent thingy is dead sexy.
Hell, I went for the big SUV, and that just wasn't padding the ego (or the small bulge) enough, what was I supposed to do?!? I think I'm going to get into model rocketry with Creamo next! :D
SOB
PS...Funked, I don't know if you monitored the comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim newsgroup back in the day, but the "my joystick is better than yours" flame fests were a retarded joy to behold. I've really missed 'em! ;)
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Originally posted by banana
One great feature for me is being able to set whichever hat I want to be the POV hat #1, which is in my case hat #3. It works best for my smaller hands.
Try this.
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Tapper,
I did that with my FLCS, but swapped hat 2 with hat 3. Last night I took my Throttle completely apart to align the speed break switch... screws and wires all over the place... but I havn't had the guts to pull the buttons off yet :)
I have also used mole skin. You can find it in the shoe department by Dr. Sholes. Cut a few strips and put it on the smooth parts of the hat for better grip. The hats on the Cougar seem to have a nice feel, so I don't think I will change anything.
Gunner
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Originally posted by 214thCavalier
Now I believe your average Hit rate is about 3.5% thats THREE POINT FIVE PERCENT are you happy with that ???
My hit percentage? No, it's closer to 8% average. Though I haven't flown but like 3 sorties online in the last 3 months.
Regardless, I'm pretty happy with 8%. Seems to do me well enough.
Hit percentage can be an indicator to overall skill level, but it's certainly not an automatic sign. Tour 26 (the last one I flew regularly), my 8% was higher than Drex's low 7%. Doesn't mean much does it? ;)
I have no problems holding the stick still and making fine adjustments. I'm glad you were able to weaken the stick to your liking, but it's hardly too strong for everyone. (And I can pretty much guarantee that you're stonger physically than I. :)) Must be a matter of how we interact with the stick.
D
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Thanks for all the info,, this was a good thread to get a feel for what I need to get.
For the moment I have decided to go with the CH stuff. One reason is that I have a limited space where my computer is and I also share it with the wife unit. I think that the weight of the Cougar could be a problem. So once I get the new stuff in I will give a review.
btw I was using a X36/CH pro pedel combo before.
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Im a whimp. Cant move the Cougar. Had to send it back!!
My X45 is much easier to use.
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Doberman your stats i got by using the name Dobe as in your sig, i realise this may not be you and you could fly under a totally different name so they could be incorrect applied to you.
Being able to move the stick or saying the stick is too strong for me is not the problem.
Let me explain my view, the further you move away from centre the easier the stick is to control even though the stick force increases, so if you are turning with back pressure on the stick it is not a problem trying to line up for and take a shot, the problem is when you are not pulling on the stick ie operating near the centre zone or break point and trying to line up a shot that requires small and precise corrections especially if you have to pass through the break point.
Weaker springs make this so much easier to control.
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Originally posted by 214thCavalier
Flossy comment its ok and not too stiff as she can use it, i will ignore as Flossy does not fly fighters and therefore will not be hanging on that stick tension for hours fighting and trying to line up shots.
LOL... well OK, maybe I don't fly fighters, but my husband Zeb does, and he has no problems with his Cougar! :D I still need to be able to move the stick quickly, though, when I am in a ground vehicle, especially if I am being targetted when a field is close to being, or has just been, captured - still a lot of effort needed! :DOh and Flossy I still admire and respect you for all you do in AH especially as your a Brit too :) Btw suck it up Argies :)
Well thank you.... not that I really do much... ;) Argies??? :confused:
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Tapper,
How did you change the Hat's around?
RGJ
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OH Flossy Argies ? !!!
Argentina..... World cup..... defeat.....ass whuppin.
So repeat after me SUCK it UP Argies !!
:)
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Originally posted by 214thCavalier
Doberman your stats i got by using the name Dobe as in your sig, i realise this may not be you and you could fly under a totally different name so they could be incorrect applied to you.
[/b]
It isn't me, nor do I fly under a completely different name. The handle in my sig ix "xDOBEx", which is what I fly under in AH. :)
Being able to move the stick or saying the stick is too strong for me is not the problem.
Let me explain my view, the further you move away from centre the easier the stick is to control even though the stick force increases, so if you are turning with back pressure on the stick it is not a problem trying to line up for and take a shot, the problem is when you are not pulling on the stick ie operating near the centre zone or break point and trying to line up a shot that requires small and precise corrections especially if you have to pass through the break point.
Weaker springs make this so much easier to control.
Personally, as I've already stated, I have no trouble controlling the stick with the stock springs.
D
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Originally posted by 214thCavalier
Argentina..... World cup..... defeat.....ass whuppin.
Oh that.... not taken any notice of it - can't stand footie! :p So, did we win or something??? :rolleyes: ;)
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Originally posted by AKWarp
Well....OK SOB, if you insist..........
Look, all you dork wanking, pilot wannabe's that think your phallic replacement...er, cougar sticks are better because they cause sensations in your groin (and god knows that's the only time it happens to you tards), then you're all a bunch of ignorant clueless neanderthals.
Any moron with half a brain synapse KNOWS that CH is the king of controllers....now, take your stiff springed, cast pot metal clunkers with the breaking switches and the laundry list of "needed fixes" and go sit in the corner, shutup and color.
(oh, and it's BYOC too! (Bring Your Own Crayolas))...
Whew.......how's that SOB? Think it might stir something up?
Sorry guys...I had a...erm...request.... lol.......
Clear case of er... Cougar envy :p
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Reading all these posts regarding CH v TM reminds me of the work I did before retired several years ago. Installing Digital Telephone Switches and equipment, my employer would have user group meetings to see what features they would like to see then after analayzing all the data then implement changes and we would install the equipment. We would give them all the LIGHTS,BELLS,GONGS,BUZZERS etc. But in the end the simple mortal man would simply ask "DO I have Dail Tone when I lift the reciever so I can call home". They could all care less for all the flashy literature that explained how to activate these features after a small course in basic programming which 90% did not want to bother with. The same applies to the joystick models. Most all want to PLUG and PLAY and most wont bother with all the features offered by any manufacturer all they would like is to plug in the device and actually have it work without a hassel which does not seem to be the case nowadays. I do use Ch products and have used Tm and Saitek, I like my setup and have used it for longer than i care to say,but hey thats just what I like if you like another setup and it works for you, hooray for you.
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>>Well....OK SOB, if you insist..........
Look, all you dork wanking, pilot wannabe's that think your phallic replacement...er, cougar sticks are better because they cause sensations in your groin (and god knows that's the only time it happens to you tards), then you're all a bunch of ignorant clueless neanderthals. <<
Whoa Warp!! Steady as she goes mate :)
SOB is clearly a firestarter here and apparently gets his jazz from the kind of "Jane you ignorant slut" degradation of an otherwise civilized debate :)
Come back to the light guy:D
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50! :D
Originally posted by Don
Look, all you dork wanking, pilot wannabe's that think your phallic replacement...er, cougar sticks are better because they cause sensations in your groin
Erm.... not me, mate.... was very much female last time I checked! :D
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LOL! Don, somehow I get the feeling your humor/sarcasm filter was offline there......:D