Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: SirLoin on June 04, 2002, 08:35:35 PM
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My video card(GF2 mx400 64meg) has given up the ghost.I'm not that up to date on what the best cards for the money are so any advice I would greatly appreciate.I don't plan on upgrading my PC anytime soon so should I splurge for a GF4 or go cheap again with same card again?....
P3 1ghz
520 Meg ram
SB Live Value
19" KDS flat screen monitor
LG 52X CD rom
MS FF Pro Joystick
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Geforce 4 Ti4200 w/128mb RAM
Thats the perfect logical choice for your system.
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Yep; GF4 Ti4200 will propably be my next card. Read more from Tom's Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/02q2/020409/index.html).
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Hey SirLoin
,
I have a GF4 Ti4400 otw, but I agree with Animal and Staga that a Ti4200 would be better with your system specs, unless you really want to spend another $50-80 for the Ti4400.
Heh, I always look at failed hardware as an opportunity, not a liability. :D
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Thnx for the info.Looks like I'm going shopping for a F4 Ti4200..
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I just installed a brand new GF4 ti4600 in my system yesterday. Frankly, I am a bit disappointed.
The card it replaced was a GF2 Pro. Performance-wise, I now get steady 100-105 fps as long as nothing is on the screen other than the background landscape. Put 4-5 planes in it and the performance is no better than what I had with the GF2.
I have tweaked and played, changed drivers (all the way up to and including the latest detonators v28.32). I run in the same resolution, mipmapping detail, etc, etc settings for both cards.
I have come to the conclusion that my bottleneck has to be the rest of my system, but I fully expected a 1.4ghz T-Bird, 512MB of CAS 2, 266mhz DDR memory to be sufficient to provide a lot higher performance from the ti4600 under heavy graphics.
Another reason (and the biggest) why I think it is a bottleneck is because I can now turn on antialiasing (QUINCUNX) and the performance is the same with literally no degredation in frame rate, so it has to be the CPU that's keeping the fps down low.
All in all it's not bad because the ti4600 is only the first component of the new monster box I'll be building over the next couple of weeks (permission to buy the parts was given by CINCHOUSE as my birthday present), so a SOYO Dragon Ultra mobo, AMD XP 2100, and a gig of 333mhz DDR memory is next......hopefully that will cure my ti4600 blues ;-)
ps.s for those that don't know, CINCHOUSE = wife ;-P
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Originally posted by AKWarp
I just installed a brand new GF4 ti4600 in my system yesterday. Frankly, I am a bit disappointed.
The card it replaced was a GF2 Pro. Performance-wise, I now get steady 100-105 fps as long as nothing is on the screen other than the background landscape. Put 4-5 planes in it and the performance is no better than what I had with the GF2.
I have tweaked and played, changed drivers (all the way up to and including the latest detonators v28.32). I run in the same resolution, mipmapping detail, etc, etc settings for both cards.
I have come to the conclusion that my bottleneck has to be the rest of my system, but I fully expected a 1.4ghz T-Bird, 512MB of CAS 2, 266mhz DDR memory to be sufficient to provide a lot higher performance from the ti4600 under heavy graphics.
Another reason (and the biggest) why I think it is a bottleneck is because I can now turn on antialiasing (QUINCUNX) and the performance is the same with literally no degredation in frame rate, so it has to be the CPU that's keeping the fps down low.
All in all it's not bad because the ti4600 is only the first component of the new monster box I'll be building over the next couple of weeks (permission to buy the parts was given by CINCHOUSE as my birthday present), so a SOYO Dragon Ultra mobo, AMD XP 2100, and a gig of 333mhz DDR memory is next......hopefully that will cure my ti4600 blues ;-)
ps.s for those that don't know, CINCHOUSE = wife ;-P
No, your hardware is fine.
The must be something wrong there. Try the latest nvidia drivers at http://www.guru3d.com 29.41 WHQL
I can play at 16000x1200x32bit with anti aliasing, and I still get higher framerate than what i used to have in my geforce 2 at plain 1200x1024 with no anti aliasing
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Yeah, something's definately wrong.
I have a Ti4600 128Mb on an AMD 2Gb CPU with 512Mb 266 RAM and get stupid frame rates all over with maximum everything. I dont even slow down in smoke any more.
Operation Flashpoint went from mildly choppy with view distance set to 600m (on an AMD 900Mhz with a GF2 GTS) to smooth as silk with view distance set to 4km.
Swoop
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I apologise if I seem to be taking this thread off topic, but I have a question in this general area.
My vid card is an Elsa Gladiac Ultra - one of those Nvidia G-Force 2 64MB jobs. Just recently, I upgraded the drivers for it as a matter of course, as I like to keep all my software up to date.
Since I updated, I've been getting screen freezes in Aces High - using Windows ME for my games platform. Unfortunately the ELSA website http://www.elsa.com seems to have disappeared! Where should I now be looking for support and downloads?
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A note about Detonator drivers. I tested several ones with GF1 DDR and GF3 Ti500 (W98 + DX81), the latests ones are the worst performers for both cards by a wide difference.
1 - Be sure to have AGP aperture size to a minimum of half your available RAM (this is set in bios).
2 - Be sure to enable AGPx4 (bios or drivers)
3 - Start testing different versions of detonator drivers:
- Set SVGA
- Install new drivers
- Test your programs
- Uninstall drivers
- Set SVGA
- Install drivers
- Test your programs
and so on
Do not install a detonator version over another detonator version. First select SVGA, then install drivers and test performance.
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I just spent my first day with a new Abit Siluro GF4 Ti-4400 last night. My system:
Soyo K7V Dragon+
AMD 1.4ghz T-Bird
512MB Crucial DDR RAM
Windows XP Pro
1280x1024x32 w/ 4x FSAA
42.29 Detonator drivers
Sitting on the runway looking out the front, I get about 40 fps, flying I'm getting around 62 fps. All in full 4x FSAA glory!
When I went down to 2x FSAA, my flying fps goes up to around 75.
Gonna order an AMD 2100XP today.
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ti 4400
XP 2000
512 ram
run ah 1280x1024x32
get a 85 fps solid as that is the monitor res limit
how are you guys getting so high fps? vsync off or lower res or I'm missing something?
I had to reinstall OS and start fresh to see greatest improvment from prevoius geforce2 ultra card
also have found 2D text better with ge4 than ge2 card
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85 fps sounds just fine to me, Eagler. No need to turn off Vsync. As you noted, your monitor refresh rate is holding you back from further fps. But that's a great situation to be in! You've got a great system there!
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Mandoble, I think you're missing a step or two. The way I'd suggest installing a new video card is as follows
1 - Switch to VGA
2 - Reboot
3 - Shutdown
4 - Swap card
5 - Boot and install driver.
The difference here is that Windows has a complete cycle of VGA mode.
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Yep qts, I did all that, and I went one step further and went into the registery and removed ANY references or settings for the GF2. As far as my system is concerned, the GF2 never existed.
I am currently running at 1024x768, 32 bit, QUINCUNX antialiasing, mipmapping on and set to "blend" performance.
When the skies have no other planes around, I get 100-105 fps. FPS varies wildly while flying, anywhere from the 70's to as low as 35. I get the 30's and 40's when I am near an airfield that has some smoke and more than 3-4 planes around. Once it dips that low, it is constant. Granted, anything over 30 is fine, but I got that with the GF2 with same settings, except for the antialiasing. I fully expected the ti4600 to never drop below 60-70 except in really insane circumstances (like the start of a large mission or something).
Other than the ability to use QUINCUNX antialiasing, I havent really gained anyhting with the ti4600 performancewise. I'm a tad disappointed since this card costs $300.
I will try a total low level of my hard drive and reinstall everything and hope that clears up the problem....but either way, I am more concerned that this isn't aproblem once the new mobo, cpu and memory arrives.
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Product ID
Description
Price
Quantity
Inventory
Sum
V64MTAT88703
MICROSTAR INTERNATIONAL MSI
GEFORCE4 G4TI4200-TD64 8870-030
GEFORCE 4 Ti4200 64MB DDR 4X AGP
W/ TV-OUT DVI VGA RETAIL
$161.00
Ship in 3-4
Business
Days
$161.00
Subtotal
$161.00
http://www.accessmicro.com
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Ok, further update on the TI4600 and some more observations:
First off, anyone with a GF3 or GF4 card should really go download the 29.42 detonator drivers. These have made a world of difference in terms of stability and a bit of a frame rate increase I had the 29.32 drivers prior to this and experienced lock ups and other stability problems). Interestingly, these drivers have not been officially released by nvidia, but they leaked out somehow.....I downloaded my version from a Russian website (good thing I can read Russian!)....LOL!
You can find them here:
http://www.3dnews.ru/download/drivers/nvidia/
The download is on the right side of the page.
I have done a lot more tweaking on the card settings and the monitor refresh rate. I now run my monitor at 100Hz locked. I have downloaded and use a tool called "NVMax4" which gives access to some settings on the GF cards that you don't normally get via the display properties.
You can download it here:
http://www.geforce3-gamer.de/geforce3-gamer/news.php
It's a german site, but the download is obvious.
I have not only tweaked settings, but overclocked the TI4600 a bit as well. I now run the core at 310mhz and the memory at 675mhz (defaults for the MSI TI4600 is 300mhz core and 660mhz memory).
Settings are now:
1024x768 32 bit
QUINCUNX AA
trilinear filtering (don't use anisotropic filtering with AA on, things look like crap)
4x AGP
sideband addressing on
fast writes on
Detonator 29.42 drivers
Monitor locked at 100Hz
VSYNC off
Sitting on the runway with no other aircraft in sight I am getting 110-125 fps.
High alt, no aircraft in sight and not much terrain in view (important distinction about the terrain, see below) I am getting 200+ fps.
Unfortunately, when things get heavy, I still drop into the 30's and 40's, but I have found very specific instances when this occurs. It seems after much observation that the terrain is the real drain on frame rates. If I am up pretty high when there isn't much terrain in view, I can still exceed 100fps even with 15-20 aircraft in view during a furball. That same furball at low alt with lots of terrain in view drops the frame rates into the 30's. I dropped my visual range in the game from maximum to one or two steps lower and frame rates are back up again.
At one step below max visual range, 15-20 aircraft in sight at low altitude, I am running in the upper 70's. Two steps below max visual range on terrain and I am pushing 100fps again, even with tons of aircraft, smoke, etc in view.
My conclusion is that CPU horsepower is the real key to keeping frame rates up in AH when lots of terrain is in view. For some reason, the AH terrain is a real beast for the system to handle.
I have tested a few other games I have (OFP, NASCAR 4) and I do not seem to have this frame rate problem with any of their terrains. I can now max out OFP settings and get ridiculous frame rates, same for NASCAR 4. Soooo, the AH terrain is the killer suspect. hopefully my new Dragon Ultra mobo, XP 2100 and a gig of 333mhz DDR memory will fix this!
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I don't like leaving VSYNC off. Too many weird things can happen. Better IMO to leave VSYNC on and get by with "only" 70 fps. :)
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warp, are you running xp? Historically i have had probelms with those 2X.xx.x drivers. I think I may have motherboard problems though.
gefore3 ti 64ddr
xp
amd 1800+ xp
512 corsair ram
gigabit mb of some kind.
I tend to sit near 120 (max monitor refresh) but when I get a bad map I notice the drop.
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No, I am running Win98SE.....best damn windows game platform there is!
Seriously though, I think WinXP is too new. I heard a lot of bad things about it when it first came out (but that's true for all versions of Windows when it first hits the streets). I will say I've been hearing better and better things about it....I'm just not partial to that calling MS to get permission to load my damn OS. And with all the changes I make to my system, and tweaking and all, you can mess up XP so that you have to call again to justify why you need to load it and get MS's permission (more or less). I'm just not hip to that concept. I'll stick with Win98SE for now....
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I tried to stay with 98se for as long as possible, but it just started running like crap with 'cutting edge' parts. Hated trying to track down decent drivers for things like system buses. I actually switched to xp home, and I dont know what people are complaining about. I have not had a system crash for months, and I never shut the darn thing off. The only problem i have had is the 2x nvidia drivers, works fine when i use the other group that microshaft indorses. The phone thing is lame. Its keeping me from updating my little harddrive. 10% free space left........
Also, xp cleans up old drivers. I got so sick of going in and emptying the system devices in safe mode. Particularly when you buy a new mb every couple of months.
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Well, if I weren't such a tinkerer and always futzin with my box, then I would probably go to WinXP....of course, I could always get a cracked version, but struggling with C++ for as long as I have (hey, I ain't no programmer, just an admin) I have a deep appreciation for what a programmer does and I really do believe they deserve to get paid. Besides, Windows ain't that expensive anyway.
The money isn't the issue for me...I just absolutely refuse to call the bastiches and beg for permission to load the software I just plunked cash down for. I know, I know, I didnt "buy" the software, I bought the privilege to use it (under their strict rules of engagement), but let's face it, that whole license and right of use stuff is a lot of legal mumbo-jumbo and Bill's greedy ways.
Besides, if AH ran (smoothly and cleanly) on LINUX, I wouldn't even have Windows on my system at all ;-P
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AMD XP1800 on MSI KT7 turbo2 GF4 Mx440 running XP pro
I love xp...
SKurj